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(Talking Points Memo)   Bundy Ranch 'militia' had strict women-first policy...in case of firefights with federal agency officers   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 673
    More: Asinine, Ted Bundy, Bundy Ranch, police officers, firefighters, foreign exchange reserves  
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12487 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2014 at 7:05 AM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-15 06:39:58 AM
It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.
 
2014-04-15 06:50:33 AM
The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?
 
2014-04-15 07:00:43 AM
I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".
 
2014-04-15 07:08:25 AM

fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?


The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.
 
Skr
2014-04-15 07:08:29 AM
but did anyone think of the children?
 
2014-04-15 07:09:06 AM
the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

c2.staticflickr.com
 
2014-04-15 07:09:50 AM
You know if you ignore these people, they go away.
 
2014-04-15 07:10:50 AM
The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.
 
2014-04-15 07:11:34 AM

TuteTibiImperes: The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.


Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.
 
2014-04-15 07:12:10 AM
doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

The will of the American people is what has turned out to be weak.

It's pretty sad.
 
2014-04-15 07:16:59 AM
police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.
 

does not compute.
 
2014-04-15 07:17:54 AM

abhorrent1: the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

[c2.staticflickr.com image 250x272]


If you know who the media is biased against, you can usualy do a decent job of filtering out derp from articles. That's how I can watch Fox News without thinking Obongo is gonna personaly come to my house to take my guns and go to the old folk's home to shoot my grandmother.

But are there actualy any good news stations that don't feature the Obama fear of Fox or the Obama dick sucking fest of everyone else?
 
2014-04-15 07:18:28 AM

fusillade762: So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.comcdn2.hellogiggles.com

/You decide.
 
2014-04-15 07:18:41 AM
I call bullshiat.
 
2014-04-15 07:19:50 AM
Militia propaganda. They learned from the best.
 
2014-04-15 07:20:52 AM

abhorrent1: the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

[c2.staticflickr.com image 250x272]


I know that's supposed to make people think you are smart, but it actually does the opposite.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Fine_Art_of_Baloney_Detection

At a bare minimum, that's an ad hominem (you're saying the source bad, therefore the information *MUST* be bad), but you also aren't encouraging open debate, you're trying to dismiss it.

That sort of thing leads to intellectual incest.  No matter what you may think of the source, you have to consider that in any one individual case, that source may in fact be correct.

i1.ytimg.com

A simple record won't turn you into the King of England, Number One.
 
2014-04-15 07:21:07 AM

OregonVet: I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".


I keep seeing "Bunny Ranch."
 
2014-04-15 07:21:18 AM
Typical gun owners.
 
2014-04-15 07:21:26 AM

The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".


Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?
 
2014-04-15 07:21:30 AM
They failed to study their history. Specifically the callous disregard for women and children in particular. Remember Ruby Ridge and Waco.
 
2014-04-15 07:22:36 AM

Deep Contact: Militia propaganda. They learned from the best.


They learned it from *YOU*, Dad.  They learned it from you.
 
2014-04-15 07:22:46 AM

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


Except when they don't
i676.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-15 07:23:25 AM
Something something enemies foreign and domestic....*head scratch*  Blow the farker up.  Not ideal for a tax dodge, granted, but effective nonetheless.  The guy did not "win".  The US government isn't run by me and decided not to kill anyone.  That's not a loss.

Better idea, I guess, take all of the guy's herd, all of the property he does own in name and kick his ass out on the street.  Let him be a citizen independent of government support and trappings.
 
2014-04-15 07:24:50 AM
After seeing things like that dude with the rifle aimed at people from behind that cement embankment and the various other asshats threatening violence if they don't get their way.... The obvious conclusion I'm lead to there is that those people want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans.

Given that the government folks backed off a bit out of fear of safety for everyone involved, I can only conclude that they aren't interested in shooting their fellow Americans (or even seeing anyone get hurt).

So whether or not the "militia" folks were planning on using women as a shield or not... it doesn't seem very hard to figure out who the good folks are here.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.
 
2014-04-15 07:25:23 AM

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.
 
2014-04-15 07:27:01 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?


A lot, actually.

Don't mistake period specific advice for general advice that always applies.
 
2014-04-15 07:28:56 AM
Man, if these guys lost Glenn Beck who do they have left?
 
2014-04-15 07:29:24 AM

HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.


I don't think they even really care about him. I think they're just looking for a fight and this was the best opportunity for one that they could find. They just wanted the authorities to shoot first so they could satisfy their itchy trigger fingers and claim that they didn't start it.
 
2014-04-15 07:30:50 AM

CRtwenty: Man, if these guys lost Glenn Beck who do they have left?


AR-15 manufacturers and army surplus supply stores?
 
2014-04-15 07:30:51 AM
BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.
 
2014-04-15 07:32:02 AM

HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.


THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?
 
2014-04-15 07:32:26 AM
Not trying to defend the Bundy ranch crowd, but a questionable quote from one guy there about a strategy some of them were supposedly considering does not make it a "strict policy".
 
2014-04-15 07:34:13 AM
fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net
 
2014-04-15 07:34:40 AM

dittybopper: That sort of thing leads to intellectual incest.


Is that like cybersex with your sister?
 
2014-04-15 07:34:50 AM

dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.


To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.
 
2014-04-15 07:34:53 AM
Refusing to shoot women on the front lines would be sexist.
 
2014-04-15 07:34:58 AM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-15 07:35:45 AM
What the hell does a brothel need a militia for?
 
2014-04-15 07:38:11 AM

jntaylor63: What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


All is forgiven if you claim to support the GOP. You're only on the shiat list if you don't vote Republican.
 
2014-04-15 07:40:18 AM

jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


He's white
 
2014-04-15 07:40:23 AM
If this is true, this makes the Bundy people no better than Al Quida (or however the hell that bunch spells their organization's name.)
 
2014-04-15 07:43:07 AM

JohnnyC: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

I don't think they even really care about him. I think they're just looking for a fight and this was the best opportunity for one that they could find. They just wanted the authorities to shoot first so they could satisfy their itchy trigger fingers and claim that they didn't start it.


The funny thing is that I don't think most of them realize that you're not allowed to get into a gun battle with the government. No matter how patriotic you think you're being. The instances where it's not illegal to shoot a cop are pretty narrow and I don't think "because 'Murica" and "Muslim Socialist President" and "Muh Freedoms!" are going to fly in court when you're looking at multiple counts of murder and attempted murder.
 
2014-04-15 07:43:32 AM

namegoeshere: OregonVet: I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".

I keep seeing "Bunny Ranch."


Jefferson: You're a Bundy and if you put a D where the N is, you're a buddy. 
Al: And if you put an N where the D is, I'm a bunny. What's your point?
 
2014-04-15 07:45:01 AM

HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.


Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".
 
2014-04-15 07:45:27 AM

jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?
 
2014-04-15 07:46:08 AM
I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,
 
2014-04-15 07:47:41 AM

Spandau: What the hell does a brothel need a militia for?


Defend themselves from the jack booted thugs the government sends totrample upon our basic liberties.
 
2014-04-15 07:47:43 AM
Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.
 
2014-04-15 07:47:45 AM

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


I don't recall anyone in OWS being armed and threatening to shoot federal employees while hiding behind women. You're a farking lunatic.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-04-15 07:48:10 AM
dittybopper:

I know that's supposed to make people think you are smart, but it actually does the opposite.

Except with people who are familiar with Glen Beck.
 
2014-04-15 07:48:16 AM

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Were they heavily armed and eager for a gun battle with law enforcement? Did they set up sniper positions? Brandish arms? *really*?

/Seriously, you really feel sympathy for these assholes, dont' you? You're even trying to conflate them as 'the same' as OWS, because Reasons.
 
2014-04-15 07:48:23 AM

untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceive


You don't see a difference between a fighter and a human shield? Interesting.
 
2014-04-15 07:49:03 AM

Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?


That's you're defense of this farking clown?
 
2014-04-15 07:49:38 AM
It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-04-15 07:49:49 AM
dittybopper:

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Yes, having women and children protest is exactly the same as using women and children as human shields in a shootout.
 
2014-04-15 07:49:53 AM

Spanky McStupid: If this is true, this makes the Bundy people no better than Al Quida (or however the hell that bunch spells their organization's name.)


Al Queso?
 
2014-04-15 07:50:01 AM

vpb: dittybopper:

I know that's supposed to make people think you are smart, but it actually does the opposite.

Except with people who are familiar with Glen Beck.


Well, there you go again.
 
2014-04-15 07:50:48 AM
untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.

You don't see a difference between a fighter and a human shield? Interesting.

/this time, without the cat laying on the keyboard.
 
2014-04-15 07:50:57 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.


Oh christ this lie again?

No.
A) The Chinese group pulled out. IN 2013

B) The proposed site was *TWO HUNDRED MILES AWAY*

C) The issue with Bundy HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR TWO DECADES.

People are playing you for a fool, and you're falling into their hands.
 
2014-04-15 07:51:30 AM

Brick-House: It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout


Southern border keeping the flood of people and drugs at bay
 
2014-04-15 07:51:56 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?


War hasn't actually changed at all in the fundamentals. Be it ants, chimps, or humans in any epoch, the fundamentals remain the same. That's why Starcraft, the US military, and the Mongols all use the Zerg Rush.
 
2014-04-15 07:52:04 AM

Ivandrago: JohnnyC: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

I don't think they even really care about him. I think they're just looking for a fight and this was the best opportunity for one that they could find. They just wanted the authorities to shoot first so they could satisfy their itchy trigger fingers and claim that they didn't start it.

The funny thing is that I don't think most of them realize that you're not allowed to get into a gun battle with the government. No matter how patriotic you think you're being. The instances where it's not illegal to shoot a cop are pretty narrow and I don't think "because 'Murica" and "Muslim Socialist President" and "Muh Freedoms!" are going to fly in court when you're looking at multiple counts of murder and attempted murder.


Most of those kinds of folks "don't recognize the court" (including this Bundy guy). Sovereign citizens... gold fringe flag conspiracies about "admiralty courts"... and all that other nonsense. We're talking about people who aren't really operating in the same plane of reality that the rest of us are. They're not thinking about court... they're thinking that if they can get the fed to start the firefight that somehow it'll end with them burning the White House to the ground and forming some new government under their rule.
 
2014-04-15 07:52:42 AM

jntaylor63: What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting. This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.


That right there would be why he's a hero to the right, as they seem to think all taxes are theft.

TuteTibiImperes: The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them. It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.


Ironically, using women and children as shields was something MOVE did here in Philadelphia and Jim Jones did in Guyana.  Also, the Branch Davidians at Waco, but I'm betting money it's a technique developed on the political Left.
 
2014-04-15 07:52:50 AM

Brick-House: Brick-House: It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout

Southern border keeping the flood of people and drugs at bay


Are you blind or something?
 
2014-04-15 07:53:10 AM

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


I don't to many people from OWS sitting behind concrete walls and drawing a bead on Federal Agents. Even with a rather extensive exposure to right wing radio and groups, the worst that was ever recorded was someone taking a dump on a cop car.* 

*There is also the whole "stop raping people" thing, but I haven't seen an evidence to support the allegation.
 
2014-04-15 07:53:37 AM

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


The Afghans WANT the Taliban? You're farking crazy dude. They HATE the Taliban. In fact, public opinion in Afghanistan of the insurgents is so low that even blowing up a mosque to kill dozens of worshiping people inside does nothing. It literally can't sink any lower. That's why they can use bizarre tactics.
 
2014-04-15 07:54:30 AM
America is finally seeing how the obama administration treats citizens. 12 million illegal immigrants in the country, no problem. A rancher letting his cows eat some grass and It's time to send in the troops. It's disgusting how quickly barry will send storm troopers and snipers to harass and threaten American Citizens.
Why do democrats hate hard working Americans so much?
 
2014-04-15 07:54:50 AM
Maaaaarciaaaaaaaaa!
 
2014-04-15 07:54:50 AM

Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,


And if he wore hot pants on Tuesdays we'd all be dying our hair purple.  Your point?
 
2014-04-15 07:55:18 AM

MythDragon: That's how I can watch Fox News without thinking Obongo Cuomo is gonna personaly come to my house to take my guns


Happy Tax/Gun Confiscation Day!

Oh, a Bundy thread.

1. Federal government land
2. Non-payment of fees
3. ??
4. Profit!
 
2014-04-15 07:55:34 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

Except when they don't
[i676.photobucket.com image 465x363]




One could say that it was an example of what happens when you don't leave people alone.
Of course we can't know what was really going through McVeigh's head, but revenge was among the theories. Abuses by the fed aren't soon forgotten or forgiven by some people.

The pursuit of a legalistic solution can sometimes have terrible repercussions. Harry Reid may want to force everyone to their knees, but the direct method for doing so is likely to haunt us for decades.
Knowing this, the way out isn't by force. Blm needs to put its guns and body armor back in the locker and look for more negotiable alternatives for sharing the land. Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.

/and we need to ask why land managers are walking around like paramilitary thugs.
/seriously, once you're sending paper pushers to the scene with more than a clipboard you should know the plan is faulty.
 
2014-04-15 07:56:24 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.


The blog you copied and pasted this from sucks.  Was it yours?
 
2014-04-15 07:56:35 AM
A tactic employed the world over.  No one cares if hardened soldiers are killed, but at least some will if women and/or children are.  Anytime there was a drone strike in Afghanistan, the U.S. would say they hit the target and the insurgents would say we hit a children's hospital or something like that.
 
2014-04-15 07:57:37 AM

way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.


It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?
 
2014-04-15 07:57:38 AM

Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,


nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want
 
2014-04-15 07:58:38 AM

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


You don't deserve an empire if you aren't willing to create a fresh heap of skulls, America. That includes domestic skulls.

It baffles me that this criminal is some kind of folk hero. "Little guy", my left one.
 
2014-04-15 07:58:48 AM
I wonder what these people think GWB would have done if he were in charge.
 
2014-04-15 07:59:00 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]
img.fark.net


Of course. When someone gets a freebie for twenty years, they become dependent on it, and see it as an entitlement.
 
2014-04-15 07:59:06 AM

doglover: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?

War hasn't actually changed at all in the fundamentals. Be it ants, chimps, or humans in any epoch, the fundamentals remain the same. That's why Starcraft, the US military, and the Mongols all use the Zerg Rush.


My (off topic) point is that I'm tired of people breaking out Sun Tzu quotes. About half of what he said is pretty reasonable, but patently obvious stuff ("Move by stealth! Disguise your intentions! Occupy the high ground!") and the other half is just random crap like how many ox carts equal one archer or whatever. Whenever I see a Sun Tzu quote, or someone pulling out the tired Clausewitz "war is the continuation of politics by other means," I've got a very strong "stopped reading there" inclination.
 
2014-04-15 07:59:14 AM

OregonVet: I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".


March, march, march?
 
2014-04-15 07:59:44 AM

Launch Code: .
Why do democrats hate hard working Americans so much?


Hard working Americans pay their grazing fees.
 
2014-04-15 07:59:51 AM
JohnnyC:  Most of those kinds of folks "don't recognize the court" (including this Bundy guy). Sovereign citizens... gold fringe flag conspiracies about "admiralty courts"... and all that other nonsense. We're talking about people who aren't really operating in the same plane of reality that the rest of us are. They're not thinking about court... they're thinking that if they can get the fed to start the firefight that somehow it'll end with them burning the White House to the ground and forming some new government under their rule.

That's what I think is awesome about this whole thing. Bundy doesn't recognize the authority of the BLM and his supports don't recognize the authority of the federal government. But the federal government doesn't care whether or not you "recognize" their authority. They're going to subject you to it anyway. You can biatch and moan and cry and stamp your feet all you want while you're sitting in a federal court in leg irons waiting for you sentence. P. Barnes doesn't care if you don't think your subject to the laws of the federal government and his taser certainly doesn't, as well. Better yet, ask Tim McVeigh how well trying to start a war worked out for him.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-04-15 08:00:21 AM
What wonderful heroes the conservative movement has these days.

A loser who wants to use women for human shields because he wants to have a standoff over the fact that he wants to steal from the government.

Freedom!
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-04-15 08:00:57 AM

MrBallou: I wonder what these people think GWB would have done if he were in charge.


He'd be confused.  There's no corporate position on something like this.
 
2014-04-15 08:01:35 AM

MrBallou: I wonder what these people think GWB would have done if he were in charge.


fark-all, apparently, if this mess has been going on for 20 years.
 
2014-04-15 08:03:41 AM

MrBallou: I wonder what these people think GWB would have done if he were in charge.


Said "Mission Accomplished" on the deck of a carrier, and then knocked off a portrait of Putin before a nice nap.
 
2014-04-15 08:04:11 AM
Reid the rules.  That's all you need to know or do, tax slaves.
 
2014-04-15 08:04:27 AM
I want to say this is what got people to remove the american royalty and start over
but it won't
just a little group of people who work with their hands,
discredited by the information machine that feeds us.
and they'll lose
 
2014-04-15 08:04:36 AM

HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.


Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?
 
2014-04-15 08:04:52 AM

fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?


I imagine more than a few of the girls were stolen
 
2014-04-15 08:05:47 AM

vpb: dittybopper:

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".

Yes, having women and children protest is exactly the same as using women and children as human shields in a shootout.


What's the difference, really?  It's the other side that *ALWAYS* has guns.  But because they're *GOVERNMENT* guns, they're always good, right?  Because the police would *NEVER* shoot unarmed people.

www.trbimg.com

And I want to point this out for emphasis because apparently some of you can't read:

TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.


That's not to say I'm 100% sympathetic to the people down there.  I go back and forth on it*, but I'm intellectually honest enough to recognize that the visuals of seeing women and children getting shot by federal agents would look very, very, very bad for the government on TV.

Doesn't matter if you agree with the strategy or not, from a public relations standpoint, if things had gone all pear-shaped, it would have made the government look bad.  You may not like the people who thought of it, and you might think they are in the wrong, but you can't argue that fact.


*On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.  That's why he stopped paying the fees.  On the other hand, he could have kept grazing the 1,000 head there, ignoring the restriction, and kept paying the fees, which I think would put him in arguably a better position, especially if he could point to data that showed that over the 20 years, the desert tortoise population there remained stable or increased.  So I'm not sure I agree with what the guy did, and knowing that, I certainly wouldn't have hauled my ass out there to support him.
 
2014-04-15 08:09:47 AM
Felgraf:

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?

Well, yeah, that precedent has been set. It flows from the top.

kaystreet.files.wordpress.com

"There is a vast amount of discretion that a president has - and, more specifically, that an attorney general has,"     -  Eric Holder

Laws are for suckers.
 
2014-04-15 08:09:47 AM
Since Bundy's cattle are trespassing on BLM's land and threatening the habitat of endangered creatures, they should treat his cattle as pests and just shoot any they find on their property. Just put a few snipers out there with long range sights and tell them it's time for target practice, men. Bundy will catch on real quick and I bet his cattle will soon be staying right where they ought to be.

/or he'll pay up pretty fast
 
2014-04-15 08:10:37 AM

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


...you've never been bullied, have you?
 
2014-04-15 08:11:21 AM

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


Unfortunatley, no. The Federal Goverment is pretty much here to stay.
 .
 
2014-04-15 08:12:35 AM

Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?


Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.
 
2014-04-15 08:13:12 AM

jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


...filing tax liens, etc will make him just as much of a martyr to these folks as it would if they'd just gotten in a Ruby Ridge-esque firefight.  To them, any government action is too much government action, even the modest actions they've already done.
 
2014-04-15 08:14:58 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: "There is a vast amount of discretion that a president has - and, more specifically, that an attorney general has,"     -  Eric Holder

Laws are for suckers.


I'm going to guess that you're not a lawyer.
 
2014-04-15 08:15:35 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.


Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.
 
2014-04-15 08:16:04 AM
Put a lien on everything he owns, get the money back. Then he can rebuild honestly, like the bootstrappy sovereign citizen he is.
 
2014-04-15 08:16:17 AM
So once again the big group of tough guys turns out to be a great big bunch of pu**ies.

talk is cheap and bullshiat is expensive. Which these clowns will soon find out.
 
2014-04-15 08:17:12 AM

Deep Contact: Militia propaganda. They learned from the best.


Yep. Rules for radicals, Saul Alynski. Patton read Rommel's book also.
 
2014-04-15 08:17:47 AM

Launch Code: America is finally seeing how the obama administration treats citizens. 12 million illegal immigrants in the country, no problem. A rancher letting his cows eat some grass and It's time to send in the troops. It's disgusting how quickly barry will send storm troopers and snipers to harass and threaten American Citizens.
Why do democrats hate hard working Americans so much?


2/100.  You get credit for signing your name.
 
2014-04-15 08:18:13 AM

TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?

The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.


This is EXACTLY what 2nd Amendment Rights advocates are worried about - tyrants that say "Showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized government response"

I am sure the scary part about what you said is that you have no clue why it's disturbing to those who support the very right you would happily take away from them.
 
2014-04-15 08:21:53 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?


He's a clown, you're a nutball.
 
2014-04-15 08:22:51 AM

evilbryan: Put a lien on everything he owns, get the money back. Then he can rebuild honestly, like the bootstrappy sovereign citizen he is.


Do you really think his response to creditors coming to repossess his assets is going to be any different than his response to the BLM coming to make sure his cows don't stray from his land?  Like I said, to him and the people who stood with him, any government action is too much government action.
 
2014-04-15 08:23:00 AM
BLM should poison the grass.

Problem solved
 
2014-04-15 08:23:12 AM

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


"highly vulnerable to bad press" ?
Um, yeah about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge">http://en.wikipedia.org/wik i/Ruby_Ridge
Happened and where was the public outcry?
FFS man the cops will kick your ass and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
 
2014-04-15 08:23:17 AM

Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.


Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.
 
2014-04-15 08:24:07 AM

Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?

He's a clown, you're a nutball.


So that's really your defense?
 
2014-04-15 08:25:58 AM
Hmmm, just like Hamas.

Stay classy, tea derpers.
 
2014-04-15 08:27:42 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?

He's a clown, you're a nutball.

So that's really your defense?

What had you really expected?
 
2014-04-15 08:28:39 AM

dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.


So firing behind unarmed people and using them as meat shields is ok in your book?
 
2014-04-15 08:29:41 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?

He's a clown, you're a nutball.

So that's really your defense?


Why yes, yes it is. I see from bothering to read the entire thread, that I am not alone in my opinion.
 
2014-04-15 08:30:14 AM

tinderfitles: I don't to many people from OWS sitting behind concrete walls and drawing a bead on Federal Agents.


You seem something there.
 
2014-04-15 08:31:11 AM

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.


So, hide behind the women like a coward is their BEST strategy.

Maybe they should just give up and go home.
 
2014-04-15 08:32:00 AM

Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?

He's a clown, you're a nutball.

So that's really your defense?

Why yes, yes it is. I see from bothering to read the entire thread, that I am not alone in my opinion.


I haven't seen anything this weak from anyone else in thread.
 
2014-04-15 08:32:11 AM
Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.
 
2014-04-15 08:33:10 AM
Why is Glenn Beck so upset with these guys? Aren't they dead center of his target demographic?

Did Bundy come out and say that Goldline is a scam? Was Beck planning on irrigating the desert with tears?
 
2014-04-15 08:33:13 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: My (off topic) point is that I'm tired of people breaking out Sun Tzu quotes. About half of what he said is pretty reasonable


Sounds more like you caught the blues.

You admit that at least half of what he says is reasonable. Guess what, ke= 1/2 mv2 EVERYONE knows it. Everyone will always know it. People still talk about it though.

So lighten up. Also, were there in China when we wrote that? It might just be he was correct.
 
2014-04-15 08:33:24 AM
 I think more of a problem would have arose trying to hold the women back.
 
2014-04-15 08:33:59 AM
I wonder when there will be some actual news on this story again?
 
2014-04-15 08:34:18 AM

Cold_Sassy: I am not alone in my opinion.

Do you think that proves anything? Let me let you in a little secret it doesn't. Even if it did most of the dudes throwing that shiat out are just doing it to piss people off.
 
2014-04-15 08:34:33 AM

dittybopper: vpb: dittybopper:

*On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.  That's why he stopped paying the fees.  On the other hand, he could have kept grazing the 1,000 head there, ignoring the restriction, and kept paying the fees, which I think would put him in arguably a better position, especially if he could point to data that showed that over the 20 years, the desert tortoise population there remained stable or increased.  So I'm not ...


I'll be honest, I haven't been following this at all, so basically he's upset that the owner of land he was LEASING changed the terms of his lease?

Well, I guess you shouldn't build a business based continually getting a "favorable" deal from the government?
 
2014-04-15 08:36:26 AM
randomjsa:

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.

What liberal belief do you think is being contradicted here?  Please be specific and cite a source for this common liberal belief.
 
2014-04-15 08:37:22 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.

Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.


That would be a little counterproductive from their point of view. Manipulation works best when it's subtle. If a woman stood up and said they they wouldn't dare shoot through us for fear of public backlash, people will be less likely to be sympathetic to their cause. besides, how do you think the women will get out in front of the men? Do you think they will be forced out in front? Or do you think they will willingly go forward? This would lead to one of two interpretations 1) the women are weak and stupid or 2) they would knowingly and complicitly stand in front of armed opposition.

And now for a bit of my own sexism. Those women must have giant balls, and therefore cannot be women at all.
 
2014-04-15 08:37:38 AM

randomjsa: Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.


Which things that "liberals claim to" believe "should" make them support this rancher?

They are using threats of violence to attempt to change government action, what does that make them in your book?
 
2014-04-15 08:37:39 AM

dittybopper: tinderfitles: I don't to many people from OWS sitting behind concrete walls and drawing a bead on Federal Agents.

You seem something there.


Yeah it's early and I am still waiting on the coffee to finish. It happens.
 
2014-04-15 08:37:49 AM

d23: What wonderful heroes the conservative movement has these days.

A loser who wants to use women for human shields because he wants to have a standoff over the fact that he wants to steal from the government.

Freedom!


yeah I have a feeling the gubmint will have the last laugh though. all he won was a little delay. the Feds will eventually get their money and get the cattle off the land.
 
2014-04-15 08:38:26 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]


What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.
 
2014-04-15 08:38:33 AM
So then they are America's Palenstinians?
 
2014-04-15 08:40:23 AM

KyngNothing: randomjsa: Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.

Which things that "liberals claim to" believe "should" make them support this rancher?

They are using threats of violence to attempt to change government action, what does that make them in your book?


Well he wants free stuff from the government. Duh.
 
2014-04-15 08:40:34 AM

SpectroBoy: doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

So, hide behind the women like a coward is their BEST strategy.

Maybe they should just give up and go home.


Are the women not people themselves? No one's forcing them to be crazy militia chicks. They CHOOSE this.

And quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage. Go get between a ewe and her lamb and get back to me.
 
2014-04-15 08:41:40 AM

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


I think it's hysterical, people accusing illegal aliens of 'stealing resources' without being able to give concrete examples of what they're 'stealing' (oil?), but ignore and *cheer* for a moocher in plain view, who *ADMITS* he's a moocher, but just doesn't want to pay for what he's taken.
 
2014-04-15 08:41:49 AM
Cattle farmers and ranchers lease non-BLM pasture all the time and they pay a hell of a lot more in fees on the private market than they would to the BLM. This crazy farker is just an asshole with boots, not to mention a criminal.
 
2014-04-15 08:42:06 AM

Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.

Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.

That would be a little counterproductive from their point of view. Manipulation works best when it's subtle. If a woman stood up and said they they wouldn't dare shoot through us for fear of public backlash, people will be less likely to be sympathetic to their cause.


Well Cleatus already done let that cat out of the bag. So be sure to let us know when you've verified your version of events.
 
2014-04-15 08:44:09 AM
I just hope this gets resolved through the use of drones.
 
2014-04-15 08:44:22 AM

dittybopper: *On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.


You are smarter than this.

The govt no longer giving him a good deal on grazing land can't intellegently or honestly be equated to limiting how many hours you work.

dittybopper: "It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


When was OWS heavily armed and getting ready for gun battles with the govt?
 
2014-04-15 08:45:55 AM

doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.

So do you fight women often?
 
2014-04-15 08:46:54 AM

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


2/12  You get a gold star, but everyone gets a gold star today, just for trying.
 
2014-04-15 08:47:30 AM

Snarfangel: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]
[img.fark.net image 521x350]

Of course. When someone gets a freebie for twenty years, they become dependent on it, and see it as an entitlement.


Pretty Gottverdammt much. And folks are lining up to defend him...because?
 
2014-04-15 08:48:29 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.

Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.

That would be a little counterproductive from their point of view. Manipulation works best when it's subtle. If a woman stood up and said they they wouldn't dare shoot through us for fear of public backlash, people will be less likely to be sympathetic to their cause.

Well Cleatus already done let that cat out of the bag. So be sure to let us know when you've verified your version of events.


So the alternative is that they're being coerced or manipulated? Yeah, I'm done discussing things with the enemy of reason.

For the record, I don't side with the rancher or his retarded male and female followers. I just take offense to your stereotyping and your glaring inability to see these women as anything but meat shields.
 
2014-04-15 08:48:39 AM

cryptonomiciosis: Al Queso?


Al Bundhi
 
2014-04-15 08:48:40 AM
The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.
 
2014-04-15 08:50:00 AM
FWIW, here is the video segment referenced in the article, and in the Blaze article.  Handily hosted on youtube so that you don't have to sully your hands with The Blaze.

VIDEO

He's pretty much straight up saying that they were going to use women as human shields.  And this is AFTER things were resolved without bloodshed.  And the guy is a former Sheriff, no less.  I'm planning on staying out of Nevada.  It might be crazy out there.
 
2014-04-15 08:51:23 AM

Truther: TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?

The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.

This is EXACTLY what 2nd Amendment Rights advocates are worried about - tyrants that say "Showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized government response"

I am sure the scary part about what you said is that you have no clue why it's disturbing to those who support the very right you would happily take away from them.


Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The NSA should track down everyone shown pointing guns at the BLM agents from the photos and charge them all with terrorism.
 
2014-04-15 08:51:31 AM

ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?


No. But I read a lot. It saves me the trouble of dying every few minutes to learn "What happens when...?"

Historically, women that DO get into combat shame the men not in prowess but in courage and/or ruthlessness. The Comanche used to let their women torture prisoners. They were especially fond of cutting off noses and slow roasting. By contrast, in WW2, oftentimes men would give their enemies the chance to surrender BEFORE the flamethrowers were deployed, and they would routinely shoot enemy combatants with fatal amounts of napalm on their bodies for mercy's sake.
 
2014-04-15 08:52:21 AM

Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.


Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.
 
2014-04-15 08:53:47 AM

Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.


No, people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.
 
2014-04-15 08:54:12 AM

Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.


I don't think the Occupy supporters want to kill Bundy.   They didn't bring the guns.   I think they would just like him to pay his fair share for the public resources he is using - after all, he is a wealthy businessman.  You know, ,just like the bankers the Occupy supporters want to pay their fair share for the public resources they are using.

The argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits
 
2014-04-15 08:57:01 AM

IlGreven: ...filing tax liens, etc will make him just as much of a martyr to these folks as it would if they'd just gotten in a Ruby Ridge-esque firefight.  To them, any government action is too much government action, even the modest actions they've already done.


True, but the mainstream media isn't going to cover the administrative proceedings wherein the federal government attaches a lien to all of Mr. Bundy's taxable property.  That dampens the rebels' attempts to turn public opinion in their favor.
 
2014-04-15 08:57:05 AM

Abuse Liability: I just take offense to your stereotyping and your glaring inability to see these women as anything but meat shields.


Exactly. They might be retards, but their balls are bigger than anyone in this threads. They CHOSE to be retarded and back up this crazy endeavor to protect a horrible man and his stupid fight that's gone on for 20 years now.

If they choose to be human shields, that's laudable, even if they're on the wrong side of the issue. They're taking the path of Gandhi and the Buddha, in a way. I certainly wouldn't even lift my littlest finger to help Bundy or his coos, let alone risk my life by getting in a crossfire zone.

And, don't forget, it's worked so far. The BLT actually backed off.
 
2014-04-15 08:57:28 AM
That militia is nothing but a bunch of cowards and thieves. All of them.
 
2014-04-15 08:57:50 AM

CRtwenty: Man, if these guys lost Glenn Beck who do they have left?


Guys like Dreck, Limpblow and Insanity don't really believe their own rhetoric.  You think Putin would allow clowns like these on the airwaves in Russia?  The right-wing talk derp-o-sphere exploits the newly disenfranchised white working/middle class for their won benefit.  The last thing any of them would want to see is a US run by the likes of Bundy and his friends.

As for the gubermint's response to Bundy, they did the right thing.  The gov is providing these "patriots" with enough rope to hang themselves with.   I'm gonna guess their encore will be to start lynching illegals for trespassing on "their" land.
 
2014-04-15 08:58:41 AM

LordJiro: Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.

Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.


Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid.  If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence.

Another piece of evidence in the growing pile that indicates that the only way to get anything done in this country is to do the wrong thing until people give up trying to correct you.
 
2014-04-15 09:00:16 AM

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


...meanwhile, everyone else is wondering why it's not okay when it's an illegal noncitizen, but it's okay when it's a sovereign citizen who claims he's not an American? (and yes, he has claimed that. Numerous times.)
 
2014-04-15 09:00:18 AM

doglover: You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful.


But guns?  2nd amendment?  Watering the tree of liberty?
 
2014-04-15 09:00:55 AM

Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.


May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?
 
2014-04-15 09:00:58 AM

neomunk: Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid. If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence


I'm amazed that liberals never use force.
 
2014-04-15 09:01:11 AM

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


Who?

The Blaze?

way south: Blm needs to put its guns and body armor back in the locker and look for more negotiable alternatives for sharing the land. Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.


BLM did de-escalate. They do not and should not need to "share" the land with this asshole on his terms. He can abide with the regulations like the other ranchers do or fark off.

Twenty farking years is pretty goddamn patient.
 
2014-04-15 09:02:35 AM
They're freaking cows. They do what they want.
 
2014-04-15 09:02:55 AM

LordJiro: Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.

Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.


Yeah, just like the 1% who keep all of their money in offshore bank accounts.  TOTALLY different,
 
2014-04-15 09:03:19 AM

neomunk: Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid. If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence.


Are you serious?  Letting cows shiat all over the desert is one thing, farking with Goldman Sachs is on an entirely different level.
 
2014-04-15 09:03:39 AM

neomunk: Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid.  If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence.


...from a media that's owned by the very corporations they're protesting? There's no way they're going to paint that as a success, even if it were successful. Didn't matter what they did; if they'd've done the exact same thing the Tea Partiers did, they'd be labeled copycats.
 
2014-04-15 09:06:12 AM

doglover: Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.

May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?


1.Kinda - Maine
2. Maine

I am a direct decedent of William Bradford, governor of Plymouth Colony
 
2014-04-15 09:06:57 AM

Publikwerks: doglover: Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.

May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?

1.Kinda - Maine
2. Maine

I am a direct decedent of William Bradford, governor of Plymouth Colony


That was meant to mean that my family roots go back to an Original colony
 
2014-04-15 09:07:10 AM
img.fark.net

I've seen how this turns out.

Incidentally, here is how I would handle this situation.

"Kids...you come out of there now and put down your toys.  I'm going to give you to the count of ten and then I will come in there and spank you."

Spanking doesn't have to be lethal.  Just start airdropping pig shiat and weaponized durian fruit all over their entire compound.  Then let nature do its smelly work.  They'll come out.
 
2014-04-15 09:08:14 AM

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


img4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-04-15 09:08:53 AM

poot_rootbeer: IlGreven: ...filing tax liens, etc will make him just as much of a martyr to these folks as it would if they'd just gotten in a Ruby Ridge-esque firefight.  To them, any government action is too much government action, even the modest actions they've already done.

True, but the mainstream media isn't going to cover the administrative proceedings wherein the federal government attaches a lien to all of Mr. Bundy's taxable property.  That dampens the rebels' attempts to turn public opinion in their favor.


He just learned he has 1,500 buddies that would come and stand with him, guns ready to blaze, against a federal government who's only looking to keep his cows on his land.  Do you really think those 1,500 people won't come again against a federal government coming to seize property from a tax lien?  Hell, I'll bet he'll get 3,000 at that point, and celebrity help from tax cheats like Wesley Snipes and the Hovind family.

Again, this can have a peaceful end (in which case he gets away with his transgression and emboldens many others to do similar), or it can end justly (in which case, however it gets there, the federal government will have to fire on him and his supporters, thus getting blood on their hands and making him a martyr, and emboldening many others to do similar).  It cannot have both.
 
2014-04-15 09:10:27 AM

notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits


Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.
 
2014-04-15 09:11:08 AM

natas6.0: I want to say this is what got people to remove the american royalty and start over
but it won't
just a little group of people who work with their hands,
discredited by the information machine that feeds us.
and they'll lose


That's a terrible limerick.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:04 AM

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.


No it isn't. Public opinion is fickle. You think these people will gather again next month and monthly if need be to defend this dudes cattle?

He will lose, not through one cut, but thousands of tiny ones.

The way to win is the courts. That's how the guy from Ruby Ridge won. Not by getting into a shootout that got his family killed. But by going to the courts after he put his weapons down.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:08 AM

jso2897: I wonder when there will be some actual news on this story again?


When BLM hands it off to the IRS and they keep it real.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:09 AM
This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:13 AM

JohnnyC: After seeing things like that dude with the rifle aimed at people from behind that cement embankment and the various other asshats threatening violence if they don't get their way.... The obvious conclusion I'm lead to there is that those people want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans.

Given that the government folks backed off a bit out of fear of safety for everyone involved, I can only conclude that they aren't interested in shooting their fellow Americans (or even seeing anyone get hurt).

So whether or not the "militia" folks were planning on using women as a shield or not... it doesn't seem very hard to figure out who the good folks are here.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.


I stand by my idea of letting M1 tanks and Apache helicopters use his herd for soft target practice.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:35 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?


That's crazy.  Nobody has enough stamps to mail one hundred thousand troops, and even if they did, you know they'd arrive mangled or late.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:51 AM

Graffito: doglover: You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful.

But guns?  2nd amendment?  Watering the tree of liberty?


Are you for real with your ignorant false dichotomy?

The desired effect of the second amendment was manifold, but the main push was something along the lines of the old English law where any man of a certain age was required to practice with the Longbow one day per week. The goal is to have a population that has their own weapons and the wherewithal to use them. This means that when the government drafted troops, they wouldn't have to train or arm them, meaning they could field a huge amount of ready archers with on a tiny budget.

In the case of the US, this means that every G-Man was raised with guns, so they know how to use 'em pretty damn well and should clean the clocks off anyone who WASN'T raised with guns and only had a few weeks' training. This actually played out for real in WWII when the best fighter pilots and snipers were all farm boys.

In the case of the militias, there's other amendments at play. The second amendment doesn't factor in at all because the government has more money, more people, AND the same rights.
 
2014-04-15 09:13:02 AM

Spanky McStupid: If this is true, this makes the Bundy people no better than Al Quida (or however the hell that bunch spells their organization's name.)


Actually, this sounds more like something Hamas would do against the Israelis...fire on armed troops while hiding behind women and children.  Provoke the other side into giving you a bunch of bloody, innocent bodies to show to the press.
 
2014-04-15 09:13:15 AM

Felgraf: Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.

I think it's hysterical, people accusing illegal aliens of 'stealing resources' without being able to give concrete examples of what they're 'stealing' (oil?), but ignore and *cheer* for a moocher in plain view, who *ADMITS* he's a moocher, but just doesn't want to pay for what he's taken.


Meh. She's from stormfront, it's always racial with her.
 
2014-04-15 09:14:00 AM

OregonVet: I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".


I was picturing the Bunny Ranch's Women first policy.

/Giggity
 
2014-04-15 09:14:01 AM
Mrbogey:
Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

So, he doesn't really want to pay his money.  Your argument is silly.   If he wants to pay his money, absolutely nothing is stopping him from paying it, other than his unwillingness to pay it.
 
2014-04-15 09:14:19 AM
There's a 1000 people standing out in the desert supporting this free loader?  Don't these people have jobs?
 
2014-04-15 09:15:07 AM

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


So.... Occupy Wall Street was gearing up for a shooting match?
 
2014-04-15 09:15:08 AM

dittybopper: *On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.


No, this is a guy who's been cheating a government welfare system for 20 years an the government has finally decided to cut off his benefits and make him rely on the private market.  But since he fits the stereotypical profile of a teabagger instead of a "welfare queen", the anti-government-handout crowd is rallying behind him to ensure he can continue receiving his government freebies.

And before you go all "b-b-but libs!", liberals don't like people scamming the government for money, either.  The problem is that most conservative solutions blanketly punish everyone for the crimes of a few, which is a solution liberals oppose (the Type 1 error vs Type 2 error preference that has been suggested a lot).  This is one guy who can be singled out and dealt with without unnecessarily burdening law-abiding ranchers.
 
2014-04-15 09:15:20 AM

hubiestubert: Snarfangel: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]
[img.fark.net image 521x350]

Of course. When someone gets a freebie for twenty years, they become dependent on it, and see it as an entitlement.

Pretty Gottverdammt much. And folks are lining up to defend him...because?


It's my understanding it's a State vs Fed issue.  Bundy claims he wanted to pay Clark County for the grazing and that it wasn't the Feds place.  Eh. seems weak.

However the Feds sending in armed rangers, helicopters and seizing the cattle seemed a bit of overreach, no? Esp. so when they had no one to take the cattle and it looked like the cattle would be harmed. They ended up tasing Bundy's son.  From what i've read Bundy seems to have the local support (as well as the support of milita's from other States).
 
2014-04-15 09:15:31 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

And if he wore hot pants on Tuesdays we'd all be dying our hair purple.  Your point?


Yes, I can see the stoners in here doing just that
 
2014-04-15 09:15:55 AM

Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.

i.imgflip.com
 
2014-04-15 09:15:57 AM

Mrbogey: notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits

Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.


So can we see the difference between unarmed civil disobedience and being arrested for your beliefs, and armed insurrection and threatening a federal officer?

Maybe we can get you a coloring book. With small words.
 
2014-04-15 09:16:49 AM

ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?


It sounds like he spends more time with sheep.
 
2014-04-15 09:17:05 AM

Danger Mouse: .  From what i've read Bundy seems to have the local support (as well as the support of milita's from other States).


That's doesn't make him right.
 
2014-04-15 09:17:19 AM

Mrbogey: Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.



A) Nobody, not even assholes in cowboy boots, get to decide how their taxes and fees are spent. He can suck it long and suck it hard.

B) If he gave 2 shots about land rights he would pay the fees since the rightful owner of the property has the right to collect fees for use.

C) Occupy was exercising free speech, not operating a commercial for-profit venture
 
2014-04-15 09:18:00 AM

JackieRabbit: Cattle farmers and ranchers lease non-BLM pasture all the time and they pay a hell of a lot more in fees on the private market than they would to the BLM. This crazy farker is just an asshole with boots, not to mention a criminal.


Pretty damn much. He's not a hero, he's just a moocher who is mad that he can't skew his business model with what he thinks of as an entitlement, which gives him a competitive edge for his business. Slap him with fines, fines, fines, and if they are enough, put a lien on the property for it, and call it good, and then when he comes to court, arrest his ass for the rest of the charges. He's not a hero, he's just an asshat looking for his handout.
 
2014-04-15 09:18:25 AM

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


WTF do illegal aliens have to do with this?

Do your right-wing sensibilities tell you that when some asshole cheats the welfare system that they're rockin' it OF, BY and FOR the people? That's what this little shiat-for-brains rancher is doing. The difference being, nobody cares if the government swoops in and arrests the welfare cheat. But one stupid rancher? OMG! FASCISM!
 
2014-04-15 09:18:25 AM

AdamK: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want


His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.
 
2014-04-15 09:19:04 AM

Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.


OK.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp
 
2014-04-15 09:19:05 AM

Mrbogey: notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits

Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.


So he wants to "pay his money", but on his own terms? That's not how it works.

What is "unfair" about this? Truly, I haven't been following this at all - tell me, how is the government treating him unfairly? How are they treating him differently than other ranchers out west? What have they done to him that most other ranchers don't have to deal with?
 
2014-04-15 09:19:12 AM

SpectroBoy: C) Occupy was exercising free speech, not operating a commercial for-profit venture


B... b...b...ut dirty hippies.
 
2014-04-15 09:20:18 AM

randomjsa: Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.


So explain to me why I should support these guys?  It looks to me like Bundy's been illegally using government land for years without paying rent. Why do you support him?
 
2014-04-15 09:20:22 AM

doglover: Graffito: doglover: You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful.

But guns?  2nd amendment?  Watering the tree of liberty?

Are you for real with your ignorant false dichotomy?

The desired effect of the second amendment was manifold, but the main push was something along the lines of the old English law where any man of a certain age was required to practice with the Longbow one day per week. The goal is to have a population that has their own weapons and the wherewithal to use them. This means that when the government drafted troops, they wouldn't have to train or arm them, meaning they could field a huge amount of ready archers with on a tiny budget.

In the case of the US, this means that every G-Man was raised with guns, so they know how to use 'em pretty damn well and should clean the clocks off anyone who WASN'T raised with guns and only had a few weeks' training. This actually played out for real in WWII when the best fighter pilots and snipers were all farm boys.

In the case of the militias, there's other amendments at play. The second amendment doesn't factor in at all because the government has more money, more people, AND the same rights.


I disagree, with the reason being that the founding fathers were concerned with constraining federal powers with the bill of rights. They had just given the new Federal government a whole boatload of new powers over the articles of confederation, and Jefferson and the democrats were worried about the Federal Government trying to ride roughshod over the States. So they made sure that the states had the ability to hold the Federal government to task vis a vis armed rebellion., like they did during the civil war.

But those amendments DID NOT apply to the states until the 14th amendment. Up until then, the states were free to limit guns however they chose. So it wasn't that they were concerned about people being able to use guns. Hell, that's like the government being concerned about people being able to use the john now. It was something people knew how to do.
 
2014-04-15 09:20:27 AM

Muta: There's a 1000 people standing out in the desert supporting this free loader?  Don't these people have jobs?


Just wait until Bundy gets the bill from NV Energy that includes the cost of recharging more than a thousand Hoverrounds. He'll be BEGGING the feds to take their land back.
 
2014-04-15 09:20:44 AM

Publikwerks: doglover: Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.

May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?

1.Kinda - Maine
2. Maine

I am a direct decedent of William Bradford, governor of Plymouth Colony


Okay, cool beans.

I was just curious.

Having grown up in Appalachia, my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans, but with a lot less animosity. There's way too many instances of corrupt officials trying to oppress honest citizens to blindly follow where "Old Glory" leads. At the same time, I can't find a better country than the IDEAL put forth in the Constitution.

In this case in particular: Bundy's wrong on many levels and needs stopped. However the women willing to get in front of their men to prove their retarded point is inspiring to me. I wouldn't come within earshot of a three letter agency for cows, let alone ride their goons' crosshairs. As far as I'm concerned, Bundy should just lose ownership of his cows if they graze on public land. The police should come in, take 'em, and steak 'em. But I have to give mad props to the militia people for realizing they're an ant fighting a giant, ass kicking boot and adopting an actual strategy as opposed to some symbolic bullshiat.
 
2014-04-15 09:21:59 AM
Lee451:

His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.

You really want to use that argument in Nevada?
 
2014-04-15 09:22:13 AM

Muta: There's a 1000 people standing out in the desert supporting this free loader?  Don't these people have jobs?


I would estimate between 70-80% of them are social security disability for health issues directly related to being obese.
 
2014-04-15 09:22:39 AM

Mrbogey: Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.


Yeah, well, guess what? If I pay my rent to my dentist because I think my landlord's an asshole, HE CAN STILL EVICT ME.

Danger Mouse: However the Feds sending in armed rangers, helicopters and seizing the cattle seemed a bit of overreach, no? Esp. so when they had no one to take the cattle and it looked like the cattle would be harmed.


They seized cattle that was on their lands. If I park my car on your front lawn, am I allowed to come and threaten to shoot you/the tow truck if you have it towed?
 
2014-04-15 09:22:46 AM

doglover: my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans

How long have you had that one in the chamber Captain Fedora?
 
2014-04-15 09:23:36 AM
First ThnkProgress, now TPM. The Obama administration mouthpiece sites are in full spin mode.
 
2014-04-15 09:23:44 AM

doglover: In this case in particular: Bundy's wrong on many levels and needs stopped. However the women willing to get in front of their men to prove their retarded point is inspiring to me


I disagree.  Those women  are brainwashed kooks.
 
2014-04-15 09:24:27 AM
I heard this morning that there's a beef shortage thanks to the polar vortex and the booming market overseas. The feds should confiscate this welfare cheat's cattle, and sell them to pay for the inconvenience he's caused.
 
2014-04-15 09:24:52 AM

Publikwerks: It was something people knew how to do.


To be fair, if you haven't used a Japanese toilet, using the john seems obvious.

farm1.staticflickr.com

Try this on for size. Too difficult, okay, here's one. Hope you have your pilot's license:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-15 09:24:56 AM
 
2014-04-15 09:25:08 AM
For the record I'd like to state that I'm NOT for Occupy supporters going out armed and acting badly like these hypocrites are, I was just expressing my frustration over what I perceive to be the coddling and enabling of truly bad behavior while violently cracking down on legitimate protest.
 
2014-04-15 09:25:35 AM
So, terrorists then.
 
2014-04-15 09:25:48 AM

Publikwerks: BLM should poison the grass.

Problem solved


content6.flixster.com
POISON the grass!

/got nothin'
 
2014-04-15 09:25:54 AM

Utter Genius: First ThnkProgress, now TPM. The Obama administration mouthpiece sites are in full spin mode.


Once again, the video was a FOX news story and it was being pimped on Glenn Effing Becks website.  Sadly, Ronald Regan and Thomas Jefferson are unavailable to pimp this story, due to their demises.
 
2014-04-15 09:26:06 AM

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.


No, no it shouldn't. If the owner of your apartment building changes hands, you can't get out of paying rent because you were there before the current owner owned the place.
 
2014-04-15 09:26:14 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Truther: TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?

The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.

This is EXACTLY what 2nd Amendment Rights advocates are worried about - tyrants that say "Showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized government response"

I am sure the scary part about what you said is that you have no clue why it's disturbing to those who support the very right you would happily take away from them.

Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The NSA should track down everyone shown pointing guns at the BLM agents from the photos and charge them all with terrorism.


Lucky for us you don't get to decide who is allowed to posses firearms.

/in this case, I don't think threatening federal officials with guns was smart
//but one of the reasons the founding fathers wanted the right to bear arms was to prevent the government from becoming tyrannical
///these folks believe that the government was being tyrannical with the excessive show of force
 
2014-04-15 09:26:49 AM

Lee451: AdamK: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want

His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.


If they've been grazing there that long, shouldn't they have put in a claim on the land? Or bought it? So basically they've been grazing on land they don't own for generations?
 
2014-04-15 09:26:53 AM

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.


img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 09:27:13 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: doglover: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?

War hasn't actually changed at all in the fundamentals. Be it ants, chimps, or humans in any epoch, the fundamentals remain the same. That's why Starcraft, the US military, and the Mongols all use the Zerg Rush.

My (off topic) point is that I'm tired of people breaking out Sun Tzu quotes. About half of what he said is pretty reasonable, but patently obvious stuff ("Move by stealth! Disguise your intentions! Occupy the high ground!") and the other half is just random crap like how many ox carts equal one archer or whatever. Whenever I see a Sun Tzu quote, or someone pulling out the tired Clausewitz "war is the continuation of politics by other means," I've got a very strong "stopped reading there" inclination.


application.denofgeek.com

To learn my teachings, I must first teach you how to learn.
 
2014-04-15 09:27:40 AM

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.


Even before the BLM existed the land was still owned by the Government. Are you saying that the Government isn't allowed to change the rules for using their own land?
 
2014-04-15 09:27:45 AM

Fissile: neomunk: Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid. If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence.

Are you serious?  Letting cows shiat all over the desert is one thing, farking with Goldman Sachs is on an entirely different level.


Getting occupiers to carry arms in a situation where they may be killed for it isn't going to happen.  Or is it?  How many would show up?  The people in Nevada showed up and pointed guns right back at the jack boots.  I'm impressed, even if the government is going to come back and kill the rancher's entire family while they sleep.  I sympathize with the guy's argument the federal government lost that open land when Nevada became a state, and I sympathize with the broader argument the federal government should just fark off once in a while and worry about the border or something.  But I'd just pay the buck or so per head even if I thought it was bull.
 
2014-04-15 09:28:21 AM

doglover: Okay, cool beans.

I was just curious.

Having grown up in Appalachia, my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans, but with a lot less animosity. There's way too many instances of corrupt officials trying to oppress honest citizens to blindly follow where "Old Glory" leads. At the same time, I can't find a better country than the IDEAL put forth in the Constitution.

In this case in particular: Bundy's wrong on many levels and needs stopped. However the women willing to get in front of their men to prove their retarded point is inspiring to me. I wouldn't come within earshot of a three letter agency for cows, let alone ride their goons' crosshairs. As far as I'm concerned, Bundy should just lose ownership of his cows if they graze on public land. The police should come in, take 'em, and steak 'em. But I have to give mad props to the militia people for realizing they're an ant fighting a giant, ass kicking boot and adopting an actual strategy as opposed to some symbolic bullshiat.


Here's what gets me - I don't have a problem with protesting. I have no problem with taking the government to task for perceived wrongs.

I have issue with 1. Threatening to kill federal officers for taking cows. 2. Planning on making a massacre scene for pr purposes.

We have a system in place for dealing with government overreach. Yes, armed rebellion can be part of it, but it should be the last step. He hasn't availed himself of it. He hasn't gone to court, hasn't argued his case in front of a judge or a jury of his peers. He has made no effort to right this, because I think he knows he's wrong.
 
2014-04-15 09:28:27 AM
Fortunately, the government's "shoot first, ask questions later" style of management has mostly ended with the Iraq debacle.  No, we don't want to see heavy handedness and needless death because the 24-hour news media is too impatient to let the situation work itself out peaceably over time.   The gov't is simply biding its time, waiting for the militia types to get bored and hungry and then leave.  Oh, there will still be a few hardcore types left but in the meantime, let's let due process do the work to resolve this in the way a civilized society should: get liens, injunctions and writs to cut off this loon's access to electricity, internet, phone, water, fuel, food and deliveries of all kinds.  You wanna be an sovereign island? good luck with that.
 
2014-04-15 09:28:33 AM

doglover: ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?

No. But I read a lot. It saves me the trouble of dying every few minutes to learn "What happens when...?"

Historically, women that DO get into combat shame the men not in prowess but in courage and/or ruthlessness. The Comanche used to let their women torture prisoners. They were especially fond of cutting off noses and slow roasting. By contrast, in WW2, oftentimes men would give their enemies the chance to surrender BEFORE the flamethrowers were deployed, and they would routinely shoot enemy combatants with fatal amounts of napalm on their bodies for mercy's sake.


When bouncing, the worst fights to break up were when women were involved.

Men? We have off switches. We have been inculcated with social dominance cues most of our lives, and we play by a particular set of rules. Mostly. And when those rules are broken, there's a fairly predictable set of responses to the breaking of those rules, which are likewise set up by years of conditioning. Women? They don't have those same cues. Women fighting, it's a whole different thing, because where a man will see he's beat, and settle down, a woman will get more and more desperate, and that's natural, but it's absolutely no fun to deal with on the floor. Where a man will stand down, a woman will ramp things up. When stepping in to break up a fight with women, you also have to deal with menfolk who suddenly get courage to "stand up" for their ladies, where they weren't doing jack or sh*t to stop the fight in the first place, no matter if it was threatening to escalate, and that brought its own headaches.
 
2014-04-15 09:28:41 AM

LordJiro: Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.

Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.


Technically this all Native American land and we should be paying THEM rent.
But I digress. The government makes up whatever rules they want and act like absolute jerks most of the time. His family has been on that land for generations. Then the feds come along and start tacking on fees and screwing with them. I wouldn't feel particularly cooperative either.
 
2014-04-15 09:29:53 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Brick-House: Brick-House: It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout

Southern border keeping the flood of people and drugs at bay

Are you blind or something?


No... posting from my phone while on a train.  And it really makes me wonder how people are comfortable with this kind of action from the federal government. Do we really need every federal agency being able to dispatch Special Forces Teams?  And other than Fox, where are the news teams reporting on this?
 
2014-04-15 09:29:53 AM

lantawa: Reid the rules.  That's all you need to know or do, tax slaves.


img2.wikia.nocookie.net

I think we need a drinking game.  Everyone take a swig when called "tax slave."
 
2014-04-15 09:30:12 AM

someonelse: Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.

OK.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp



http://scgnews.com/bundy-ranch-what-youre-not-being-told
d56amtpp2y9sx.cloudfront.net
 
2014-04-15 09:31:23 AM
Cold_Sassy:

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

Holy sh#tballs. I've been assured by Drew that there are no racists on Fark.com, it's only people with different opinions and furthermore comma
 
2014-04-15 09:31:53 AM

doglover: Abuse Liability: I just take offense to your stereotyping and your glaring inability to see these women as anything but meat shields.

Exactly. They might be retards, but their balls are bigger than anyone in this threads. They CHOSE to be retarded and back up this crazy endeavor to protect a horrible man and his stupid fight that's gone on for 20 years now.

If they choose to be human shields, that's laudable, even if they're on the wrong side of the issue. They're taking the path of Gandhi and the Buddha, in a way. I certainly wouldn't even lift my littlest finger to help Bundy or his coos, let alone risk my life by getting in a crossfire zone.

And, don't forget, it's worked so far. The BLT actually backed off.


To be fair, it is hard for the wimmin to make a sandwich unless they are in the kitchen. These guys using them as shields can't get their BLT's. Those ferocious sandwiches laden with pig, lettuce, tomato, and mayo, between two slices of freedom bread. Sad really. I know I like a good BLT myself. Well, unless they follow behind the wimmin folk into the kitchen to let them make their glorious freedom sandwiches.

Conservatives used to joke about men hiding behind wimmin's skirts. Something, something, cowards? I mean, when we have a guy we want to bomb and they start using human shields (in particular women and children) we start accusing them of various cowardly things.

So, how are these cowards any different than Saddam really? Bundy is taking land he doesn't have permission to and extracting a resource from it, grass in this case. When threatened with superior firepower, he puts the wimmin and chilldrun up front so they can take bullets for the 2nd amendment tough guys, and generate bad press. No different really than a 2nd or 3rd world dictator that has convinced his people that America is the Great Satan.
 
2014-04-15 09:32:25 AM

notto: Danger Mouse: .  From what i've read Bundy seems to have the local support (as well as the support of milita's from other States).

That's doesn't make him right.


No it doesn't, maybe I'm missing something here, being on the east coast and not having a good sense of farmers rights or practices. Because,  yea, if he didn't pay his grazing fee  then sure, what the fark is his beef? Since these lands cross over state boundries I could see it being in the BLM arena.   But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?
 
2014-04-15 09:32:34 AM
It's assholes like these that make the dozens of responsible gun owners in this country look bad.
 
2014-04-15 09:32:40 AM

doglover: Publikwerks: It was something people knew how to do.

To be fair, if you haven't used a Japanese toilet, using the john seems obvious.

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 500x375]

Try this on for size. Too difficult, okay, here's one. Hope you have your pilot's license:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x592]


I WANT TO TRY THAT TOILET.

Of course, I don't know if it could handle what I bring.

//Needs a Ferguson
 
2014-04-15 09:32:45 AM

Brick-House: No... posting from my phone while on a train.  And it really makes me wonder how people are comfortable with this kind of action from the federal government. Do we really need every federal agency being able to dispatch Special Forces Teams?  And other than Fox, where are the news teams reporting on this?


If there's a heavily armed militia with 1,500 guys in it threatening to shoot any member of that federal agency if they try to do their job, I'm perfectly fine with the government being able to call in extra muscle.
 
2014-04-15 09:32:56 AM

MechaPyx: LordJiro: Mrbogey: 
Technically this all Native American land and we should be paying THEM rent.
But I digress. The government makes up whatever rules they want and act like absolute jerks most of the time. His family has been on that land for generations. Then the feds come along and start tacking on fees and screwing with them. I wouldn't feel particularly cooperative either.


But did they own it? So you'd be ok with a large oil company setting up wells, or someone starting a mine on federal land, as long as no one notices for a while?


 

Brick-House: HotWingConspiracy: Brick-House: Brick-House: It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout

Southern border keeping the flood of people and drugs at bay

Are you blind or something?

No... posting from my phone while on a train.  And it really makes me wonder how people are comfortable with this kind of action from the federal government. Do we really need every federal agency being able to dispatch Special Forces Teams?  And other than Fox, where are the news teams reporting on this?


Well, if they're going to be met with armed militia when they're trying to enforce grazing fees, yes, they apparently do need an armed presence.
 
2014-04-15 09:33:00 AM

Mrbogey: notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits

Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.


If he does not want to pay it to who it is due who does he want to pay it too? Saying you want to pay your bills, but then claiming you dont owe the bill is not the same thing as wanting to pay your bills....It does not matter if it is "against his interest", he owes the money, stop being a deadbeat. My electric company constantly uses my money against my interest, but I am still required to pay them or I dont get electricity...

That is because all they did was protest. They did not claim the land was theirs to use indefinitely and threaten to kill people who would try to stop them. the OWS also did not break many laws, unlike this guy.
 
2014-04-15 09:33:17 AM
Typical terrorist tactics.   Use human shields.   But snipers are able to deal with that.  They are lucky they all still have heads today.
 
2014-04-15 09:33:43 AM

Maud Dib: Cold_Sassy:

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

Holy sh#tballs. I've been assured by Drew that there are no racists on Fark.com, it's only people with different opinions and furthermore comma


It might not be a race thing. Cold_Sassy may just be referring to his/her friends and family.
 
2014-04-15 09:33:50 AM

Publikwerks: We have a system in place for dealing with government overreach. Yes, armed rebellion can be part of it, but it should be the last step. He hasn't availed himself of it. He hasn't gone to court, hasn't argued his case in front of a judge or a jury of his peers. He has made no effort to right this, because I think he knows he's wrong.


Actually he lost 2 court cases over this.  So he tried to take them to court and the courts have twice said no you have to pay your bills so he then decides armed is better.

What gets me is these people have no problesm firing on jackbooted thugs that are just doing their jobs.  They have families, bills, etc that they need a job and yet everyone is happy to gun them done because of "evil" government when the people they are so scared of will never be outside of a heavily armed building.
 
2014-04-15 09:35:12 AM
Danger Mouse:  But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?

It's not his actual neighbors that are helping him out. Most of them are pissed at him because his cows keep wandering off his property onto their land  and messing stuff up.
 
2014-04-15 09:35:16 AM

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


Well, it's nice that you can amuse yourself with made-up stories.  Have you considered writing a children's book?
 
2014-04-15 09:35:26 AM

MechaPyx: His family has been on that land for generations.


Yeah, they just wandered in one day - no government help or support at all, Hey!  Free Land!

If this is their land, then I'm sure they would be willing to deed it and pay back state and federal taxes on it, right?

The forfeited any rights they had because, like the current user, they were more than willing to take advantage of the public lands when it suited them. They sure didn't want to own it and pay taxes on it.
 
2014-04-15 09:36:09 AM

CRtwenty: Danger Mouse:  But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?

It's not his actual neighbors that are helping him out. Most of them are pissed at him because his cows keep wandering off his property onto their land  and messing stuff up.


Apparently this guy is not only a deadbeat moocher, he also sucks at ranching.
 
2014-04-15 09:36:09 AM
I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated."

/Shiat just got real.
 
2014-04-15 09:36:14 AM

Lee451: AdamK: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want

His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.


So that my familily has been using the land I dont own for generations before the current buys bought it means that the current buyer should have no say on keeping me off the land?
 
2014-04-15 09:37:03 AM
You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.
 
2014-04-15 09:37:17 AM

Danger Mouse: No it doesn't, maybe I'm missing something here, being on the east coast and not having a good sense of farmers rights or practices. Because, yea, if he didn't pay his grazing fee then sure, what the fark is his beef? Since these lands cross over state boundries I could see it being in the BLM arena. But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?


They aren't?

The folks that were sticking up for him were anti-government militia groups. Not even the ranchers association is sticking up for him. (Which should tell you how in the wrong he is.)
 
2014-04-15 09:37:19 AM

ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?


I've been known to punch women on occasion.  But then, they were kickboxers and got to punch (and kick) back.  So I'm not sure that that counts.
 
2014-04-15 09:37:41 AM

Danger Mouse:   But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?


I'm not sure the people sticking up for him are his fellow ranchers and neighbors.  In the east, you would call those sticking up for him carpetbaggers.
 
2014-04-15 09:40:22 AM

someonelse: I heard this morning that there's a beef shortage thanks to the polar vortex and the booming market overseas. The feds should confiscate this welfare cheat's cattle, and sell them to pay for the inconvenience he's caused.


That's what I'm thinking. He says that each cow is worth $1000, and he owes around a million, seems like a good way to start that off.
 
2014-04-15 09:40:51 AM

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
 
2014-04-15 09:41:19 AM

IlGreven: Miss Alexandra: This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.

...meanwhile, everyone else is wondering why it's not okay when it's an illegal noncitizen, but it's okay when it's a sovereign citizen who claims he's not an American? (and yes, he has claimed that. Numerous times.)


The point has come up in earlier threads.  He claims he's not a US citizen.  Why not take him up on that.  He's not a citizen, and he doesn't have a visa, therefore he's an illegal alien.  Deport him.
 
2014-04-15 09:41:21 AM

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


HE'S ON FEDERAL LAND.  Who do you think should handle it?
 
2014-04-15 09:42:20 AM

WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CATTLE?!

 
2014-04-15 09:42:29 AM

TNel: HE'S ON FEDERAL LAND. Who do you think should handle it?


MJ12?
 
2014-04-15 09:43:11 AM

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


Small Government! Big Government!

s2.quickmeme.com
 
2014-04-15 09:45:25 AM

doglover: Publikwerks: doglover: Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.

May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?

1.Kinda - Maine
2. Maine

I am a direct decedent of William Bradford, governor of Plymouth Colony

Okay, cool beans.

I was just curious.

Having grown up in Appalachia, my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans, but with a lot less animosity. There's way too many instances of corrupt officials trying to oppress honest citizens to blindly follow where "Old Glory" leads. At the same time, I can't find a better country than the IDEAL put forth in the Constitution.

In this case in particular: Bundy's wrong on many levels and needs stopped. However the women willing to get in front of their men to prove their retarded point is inspiring to me. I wouldn't come within earshot of a three letter agency for cows, let alone ride their goons' crosshairs. As far as I'm concerned, Bundy should just lose ownership of his cows if they graze on public land. The police should come in, take 'em, and steak 'em. But I have to give mad props to the militia people for realizing they're an ant fighting a giant, ass kicking boot and adopting an actual strategy as opposed to some symbolic bullshiat.



I grew up in Appalachia myself, I am born, raised and still live in NC, and my ancestor is from even deeper in the area, however I completely disagree with you. Your thinking has more to do with your parents then the area. Some people are just fearful of unrealized issues.

also the goal of using the women, who there is no evidence would go along with it, and would have been symbolic bullshiat.
 
2014-04-15 09:45:42 AM
WHOA BUNDY!

Kelly, get out there
 
2014-04-15 09:45:47 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.


This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.
 
2014-04-15 09:47:07 AM

FnkyTwn: Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.

This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.


But it feels true, dammit.
 
2014-04-15 09:47:07 AM

ciberido: lantawa: Reid the rules.  That's all you need to know or do, tax slaves.


[img2.wikia.nocookie.net image 338x383]

I think we need a drinking game.  Everyone take a swig when called "tax slave."


The drinking gods of foolishness smile upon you, my son.  Behold, and bask in the radiance of the pleasure that you give them. But too much taxation with insufficient representation is a thing, my son. Word

i466.photobucket.com

 
2014-04-15 09:47:27 AM

IlGreven: Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.

No, no it shouldn't. If the owner of your apartment building changes hands, you can't get out of paying rent because you were there before the current owner owned the place.


I think Management Company might be more appropriate then owner in this case.  Ownership has not changed, just some of the management mechanisms.  (no smoking in the lobby?  i'ma stop paying my rents.)
 
2014-04-15 09:47:59 AM

Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?


You don't see Sean Hannity defending the patriotism of gangbangers? Your average gangbanger doesn't have 400 cows shiatting all over? Nobody on Fark gets a hard on when a gangbanger defies the law?
 
2014-04-15 09:49:49 AM

doglover: Publikwerks: It was something people knew how to do.

To be fair, if you haven't used a Japanese toilet, using the john seems obvious.

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 500x375]


Depending on which country you're getting posted to, if you join the Peace Corps, they will toilet-train you.  Literally.
 
2014-04-15 09:49:55 AM

untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions say something that contradicts their own agenda.


This isn't necessarily confirmation bias. I also was willing to ignore the source of this article, until I realized it went counter to their usual spin.

Here's an example that goes the other way: I'm pretty liberal, and voted for President Obama twice. A friend of mine on Facebook (who's also very liberal) recently posted a status complaining about how Obamacare has treated him. I was really interested to hear what he had to say, since I know he's not a knee-jerk conservative who's going to hate Obama for eating crackers. I couldn't make heads or tails of the follow-up comments, unfortunately. But I'd love to hear an honest critique of Obamacare that doesn't come from the cracker-eaters.

Liberals: evidence-based.
 
2014-04-15 09:50:36 AM
As usual, Chick has the answer.
media.chick.com
media.chick.com
heh-"phony calls"
media.chick.com
 
2014-04-15 09:51:14 AM
Bundy Ranch 'militia' had strict women-first policy...in case of firefights with federal agency officers

If this is going to be how act, maybe it's time to repeal the 2nd amendment.
 
2014-04-15 09:52:01 AM

FnkyTwn: Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.

This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.


But wait, there's more!  What about THIS story about THIS solar development project.  Bet you can't prove it incorrect......

http://www.infowars.com/flashback-sen-reid-breaks-ground-for-nevada- so lar-farm-near-bundy-ranch/
 
2014-04-15 09:52:14 AM

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


Hurrrr
 
2014-04-15 09:52:24 AM

FnkyTwn: Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.

This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.


Remember when everybody lied us into war?
 
2014-04-15 09:52:56 AM
One thing I've noticed and wondered about regarding conservative types in general - from the "limited government" sane ones through to the wackadoo militia types we have here - is, why do they hate government no matter what it does? Isn't the whole idea of a democratic republic to have a government formed by the people themselves? Why would they hate that? Do they think they themselves are awful at governing or something? It doesn't make sense.

Add to that the fact that this republic setup was put together by the people they revere the most: the holy Founding Fathers (blessed be their names). This is the exact government set up by their heroes and yet, just the mention of the word "government" induces grumbles and eye rolls from them. Do they want no government at all?

My opinion is that conservatives still view this bogeyman "government" as if it were the fictional "tyrannical" British colonial government that the Founding Fathers (blessed be their names) toppled. But the government we have now isn't that at all; it's the one set up by the people who toppled and replaced that. It just makes zero sense.
 
2014-04-15 09:53:29 AM

untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.


I think the point is that when a group that slants their reporting reports something against their position they're generally more reliable than when they report something that supports their position.
 
2014-04-15 09:54:32 AM
tavernofterror.com
 
2014-04-15 09:54:44 AM
Wouldn't have been great if these guys had shown up to OWS? The bankers would still be cleaning out their shorts.
 
2014-04-15 09:55:36 AM

BSABSVR: Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.

Hurrrr


There is no hurrrr.....only Zuul.
 
2014-04-15 09:56:36 AM

Brick-House: Do we really need every federal agency being able to dispatch Special Forces Teams?


My friend is a sheriff, and he has to deal with these nutters (Sovereign Citizens) every so often. He has a few officers he's given special training to so they can deal with them without it erupting into a firefight every time. One thing people who don't deal with nut jobs like this don't understand: They really see you as an invader and feel they have free reign to put 10 rounds into you without repercussion. This isn't just about grazing land, license plates, taxes, or any that of shiat. These people make the Civil War South look sane. Sherman might've burned these a$$holes to the ground if he was let loose on them, but the Confederacy would have curb stomped their a$$ just as quickly. These people are the one-half of one percent of extremists and feel they should be able to do what they want, when they want.

One of the best things my friend fought hard to get in the cruisers was the dash cams. A couple of the older cops resisted a bit, they didn't know if it was going to really work or just create another headache. I've seen some dashcam footage of Sovereign Citizens, and these people are so farking insane it's near unbelievable they function at all. Then you realize it's all a sham, most will gladly use that worthless paper from an illegitimate government. Most will demand to be paid in it, even while shouting from the rooftops that it's worthless.

Sovereign citizen movements are usually nothing but extremist libertarian retards that don't want to pay income taxes. The biggest problem is that they tend to react very violently when their shtick is called. No, that homemade license plate won't cut it Emperor Pro Tem Charles Avery, III. Yes you still have to pay property taxes on that 250 acres Peter Griffin.

The worst is the law suits, well unless they shoot you as an invader. For someone who hates the courts so much, most of them seem perfectly happy to file ridiculous law suits against, well, anyone they can think of that might be tangentially involved with the government. My friend had a lien falsely put on his house, multiple times. I won't go into the judges and attorneys who have to read this headache inducing shiat they scrawl in crayon for briefs, before they too are personally sued and / or have false liens placed on their property.

In sum total, these retards go out of their way to break laws, be irritating, and are regularly violent. I don't blame anyone for protecting themselves, or their employees, from them.
 
2014-04-15 09:57:44 AM

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


The founding father also didn't want women or men without property to be able to vote.  What's your point?  Things change.  We don't live in an 18th century agrarian, slave holding society anymore.

Everyone's definition of limited powers is different.  I know that you think that you are channeling our sexist, racist founding fathers who didn't even agree amongst themselves, but that doesn't bolster Bundy's claim.
 
2014-04-15 09:57:49 AM
TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.
 
2014-04-15 09:59:45 AM

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


Was George Washington a founding father? I kinda think so. You know what happened when a pack of militia loons decided to defy federal authority and not pay the Whiskey Tax? The founders experienced a weak federal government subservient to the states under the Articles of Confederation AND GOT RID OF IT.
 
2014-04-15 10:00:27 AM

Truther: /in this case, I don't think threatening federal officials with guns was smart
//but one of the reasons the founding fathers wanted the right to bear arms was to prevent the government from becoming tyrannical
///these folks believe that the government was being tyrannical with the excessive show of force


And Richard Chase killed people and drank their blood because "he needed to prevent Nazis from turning his blood into powder via poison they had planted beneath his soap dish."  His delusions didn't make his actions less criminal.

And yes, thinking that you need to be ready to violently overthrow the US government because tyranny is coming ANY SECOND is just about the same level of crazy as thinking you can drink other people's blood to counteract poison Nazis planted beneath your soap dish.

Anti-psychosis medication would do these folks a lot more good than firearms.
 
2014-04-15 10:00:41 AM

Lee451: AdamK: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want

His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.


Why should that count for anything? The Feds still owned the land before the BLM existed. If I rent a house from Joe Smith, and he sells the house to a new partnership called Landlords, LLC, do I get to stop paying on account of the fact that I rented the houses prior to that LLC? Do I get to decide I'm going to pay someone else instead? Am I going to be considered a hero if I just stop paying?

Of course not. I would be a lunatic. Just like Bundy.
 
2014-04-15 10:03:31 AM
This thread gave me cancer.
 
2014-04-15 10:05:40 AM

Publikwerks: poison


Brilliant.  That will only hurt the cattle, right?  Did you know Desert Tortoises eat grass too?  It needs to be pesticide and herbicide free.

Educate yourself here:  http://www.anapsid.org/tortdiet.html
 
2014-04-15 10:06:01 AM

menschenfresser: One thing I've noticed and wondered about regarding conservative types in general - from the "limited government" sane ones through to the wackadoo militia types we have here - is, why do they hate government no matter what it does? Isn't the whole idea of a democratic republic to have a government formed by the people themselves? Why would they hate that? Do they think they themselves are awful at governing or something? It doesn't make sense.

Add to that the fact that this republic setup was put together by the people they revere the most: the holy Founding Fathers (blessed be their names). This is the exact government set up by their heroes and yet, just the mention of the word "government" induces grumbles and eye rolls from them. Do they want no government at all?

My opinion is that conservatives still view this bogeyman "government" as if it were the fictional "tyrannical" British colonial government that the Founding Fathers (blessed be their names) toppled. But the government we have now isn't that at all; it's the one set up by the people who toppled and replaced that. It just makes zero sense.


I think it has to do with the fact that the federal government no longer backs the rights of white, christian men over everyone else.
 
2014-04-15 10:08:11 AM

lantawa: FnkyTwn: Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.

This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.

But wait, there's more!  What about THIS story about THIS solar development project.  Bet you can't prove it incorrect......

http://www.infowars.com/flashback-sen-reid-breaks-ground-for-nevada- so lar-farm-near-bundy-ranch/


Bundy's running his cattle on reservation land?
 
2014-04-15 10:09:32 AM

neversubmit: Wouldn't have been great if these guys had shown up to OWS? The bankers would still be cleaning out their shorts.


They would never do anything to harm the benevolent, beneficent, honorable, holy, mom-and-pop multinational corporations that the eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebil gubmint is keeping down with their 0% effective tax rates and burdensome regulations like "don't dump your toxic waste into the river"...
 
2014-04-15 10:09:49 AM

dittybopper: abhorrent1: the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

[c2.staticflickr.com image 250x272]

I know that's supposed to make people think you are smart, but it actually does the opposite.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Fine_Art_of_Baloney_Detection

At a bare minimum, that's an ad hominem (you're saying the source bad, therefore the information *MUST* be bad), but you also aren't encouraging open debate, you're trying to dismiss it.

That sort of thing leads to intellectual incest.  No matter what you may think of the source, you have to consider that in any one individual case, that source may in fact be correct.

[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

A simple record won't turn you into the King of England, Number One.


oi39.tinypic.com
 
2014-04-15 10:11:29 AM

lantawa: ciberido: lantawa: Reid the rules.  That's all you need to know or do, tax slaves.
[img2.wikia.nocookie.net image 338x383]

I think we need a drinking game.  Everyone take a swig when called "tax slave."

The drinking gods of foolishness smile upon you, my son.  Behold, and bask in the radiance of the pleasure that you give them. But too much taxation with insufficient representation is a thing, my son. Word[i466.photobucket.com image 266x283]


That's cute.  I'm probably better off not knowing what it actually is a photo of, but it's cute all the same.
 
2014-04-15 10:14:59 AM
Bundy and those who opposed the BLM doing what they are authorized to do should be charged with sedition.

18 US Code 2384: Seditious Conspiracy:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384">http://www.law.corne ll.edu/uscode/text/18/2384

Seems pretty straightforward to me.
 
2014-04-15 10:15:08 AM

Miss Alexandra: What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


I'll bite.

Most people on the left and right are against illegal immigration.  You, specifically, are against them stealing our resources.

Would you agree, then, that a system should be set in place where these people can pay taxes?  Maybe give them a card of some sort, where they can work legally and then pay income and payroll taxes on their labor?

Would you also agree that the government should come down on businesses and job creators who employ ILLEGAL immigrants with an iron fist?
 
2014-04-15 10:17:28 AM

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


False. They continue to damage federally-protected wildlife on the federally-owned land, which they've refused to pay for over the last 20 years, because they refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the United States government.
 
2014-04-15 10:20:17 AM
So when are they going to fire a few hellfire missiles at these ranchers so Fark's bloodlust gets satisfied?
 
2014-04-15 10:20:36 AM
Cliven Bundy's cattle will be taken into custody at a minimal monetary expenditure. Total operation cost: 134 thousand credits under budget. Congratulations. Be efficient, be happy.
www.microscopics.co.uk
 
2014-04-15 10:21:45 AM
I am astonished there is anyone at all defending Bundy on this. He's so blatantly in the wrong, his position is pretty much indefensible.

This thread has been a useful tool in exposing the most worthless idiots on Fark. I'm just disgusted.
 
2014-04-15 10:22:51 AM

MythDragon: As usual, Chick has the answer.
[media.chick.com image 468x240]
[media.chick.com image 468x240]
heh-"phony calls"
[media.chick.com image 468x240]


**forhead smack**
OK, what is THAT tract about?  Hippies?  Marijuana?
 
2014-04-15 10:23:30 AM

KyngNothing: MechaPyx: LordJiro: Mrbogey: 
Technically this all Native American land and we should be paying THEM rent.
But I digress. The government makes up whatever rules they want and act like absolute jerks most of the time. His family has been on that land for generations. Then the feds come along and start tacking on fees and screwing with them. I wouldn't feel particularly cooperative either.

But did they own it? So you'd be ok with a large oil company setting up wells, or someone starting a mine on federal land, as long as no one notices for a while?



Sure! That's how the U.S. got it's start right? People moved right in and by the time anyone noticed it was too late. Now we walk around like we own the farkin' place. Oh...we do. But we let the Natives sublet a really crummy spot in the corner(until the government decides it needs it for something or other and takes that too).
 
2014-04-15 10:24:20 AM

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: I am astonished there is anyone at all defending Bundy on this. He's so blatantly in the wrong, his position is pretty much indefensible.

This thread has been a useful tool in exposing the most worthless idiots on Fark. I'm just disgusted.


A few people have surprised me, to be honest.  This thread has separated a few people from being far right wing douches from the out right trolls.
 
2014-04-15 10:24:30 AM

randomjsa: Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.


If they were planning on putting women up as human shields, then they were terrorists. That's a terrorist tactic. It is Glenn Beck's site that originally highlighted the quote, by the way.
 
2014-04-15 10:24:55 AM
Anyone who even thinks this is a good idea are farking evil SOBs and their removal from the gene-pool will be no loss to the human race whatsoever. Want to start a fight? Put yourself in the farking front ye bunch of pansies.
 
2014-04-15 10:25:32 AM

menschenfresser: One thing I've noticed and wondered about regarding conservative types in general - from the "limited government" sane ones through to the wackadoo militia types we have here - is, why do they hate government no matter what it does? Isn't the whole idea of a democratic republic to have a government formed by the people themselves? Why would they hate that? Do they think they themselves are awful at governing or something? It doesn't make sense.

Add to that the fact that this republic setup was put together by the people they revere the most: the holy Founding Fathers (blessed be their names). This is the exact government set up by their heroes and yet, just the mention of the word "government" induces grumbles and eye rolls from them. Do they want no government at all?

My opinion is that conservatives still view this bogeyman "government" as if it were the fictional "tyrannical" British colonial government that the Founding Fathers (blessed be their names) toppled. But the government we have now isn't that at all; it's the one set up by the people who toppled and replaced that. It just makes zero sense.


Due to work I travel to Utah and Nevada quite often. There is a tremendous number of people that side with Bundy and his militia types. Why? He's not an underdog. Bundy is a wealthy man. Most ranchers are. Given the size of his herd that's over $1million every year in income. These folks really have given up on the idea that "government by the people" works.

They are large in number. They seem to be ready, "I'm ready to pull the trigger if fired upon," one of the anti-government activists said. This right-wing movement is not going away anytime soon. Legal arguments are not going to persuade them. Telling them that the government they despise is the representative government the founding fathers assembled does not persuade them. They believe the US is ruled by despots, elections are rigged and there are millions of deadbeats, usually dark skinned, who get a free ride on a permanent basis.

It makes zero sense unless you hear how adamant the US right wing has become.
 
2014-04-15 10:25:38 AM

gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.


I cut the bits about the sister being pushed to the ground, and the son's liver damage from being stomped on.  The fact he was arrested for taking pictures and his camera was confiscated seems to be a pretty binary detail, either it did happen or it didn't and would be backed up with the police report.  I'll take his word on that one.

From reading this thread and two articles on the subject, I'm less inclined to support Bundy's claim to the land.  I tend to stay out of land wars as a general rule.  I don't know where the escelation began but both Bundy's agressiveness and the police action seem over the top.  Of the two I'm more outraged by the apparent abuse of power.

They should be the level headed ones, document how Bundy is wrong, charge him and/or take him to court and follow the process.

I think this situation is better compared to the 'soverign citizen meets tazer' video.  The security guy shouldn't have been so quick on the trigger, but the soverign citizen guy was clearly an asshat who wasn't going to stop.
 
2014-04-15 10:26:17 AM

Satanic_Hamster: Miss Alexandra: What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.

I'll bite.

Most people on the left and right are against illegal immigration.  You, specifically, are against them stealing our resources.

Would you agree, then, that a system should be set in place where these people can pay taxes?  Maybe give them a card of some sort, where they can work legally and then pay income and payroll taxes on their labor?

Would you also agree that the government should come down on businesses and job creators who employ ILLEGAL immigrants with an iron fist?


Definitely agree with this.  There should probably also be fines depending on the length of time already established here.  Recoup some of the medical/educational freebies.  I mean there should be some penalties for breaking the law.
 
2014-04-15 10:27:25 AM

lantawa: FnkyTwn: Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.

This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.

But wait, there's more!  What about THIS story about THIS solar development project.  Bet you can't prove it incorrect......

http://www.infowars.com/flashback-sen-reid-breaks-ground-for-nevada- so lar-farm-near-bundy-ranch/



Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
 
2014-04-15 10:27:27 AM

Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.

Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.

That would be a little counterproductive from their point of view. Manipulation works best when it's subtle. If a woman stood up and said they they wouldn't dare shoot through us for fear of public backlash, people will be less likely to be sympathetic to their cause.

Well Cleatus already done let that cat out of the bag. So be sure to let us know when you've verified your version of events.

So the alternative is that they're being coerced or manipulated? Yeah, I'm done discussing things with the enemy of reason.

For the record, I don't side with the rancher or his retarded male and female followers. I just take offense to your stereotyping and your glaring inability to see these women as anything but meat shields.


If what you're saying is accurate, they see themselves as meat shields. I'm sorry the reality is so hard for you to accept.
 
2014-04-15 10:30:40 AM

TheGogmagog: gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.

I cut the bits about the sister being pushed to the ground, and the son's liver damage from being stomped on.  The fact he was arrested for taking pictures and his camera was confiscated seems to be a pretty binary detail, either it did happen or it didn't and would be backed up with the police report.  I'll take his word on that one.

From reading this thread and two articles on the subject, I'm less inclined to support Bundy's claim to the land.  I tend to stay out of land wars as a general rule.  I don't know where the escelation began but both Bundy's agressiveness and the police action seem over the top.  Of the two I'm more outraged by the apparent abuse of power.

They should be the level headed ones, document how Bundy is wrong, charge him and/or take him to court and follow the process.

I think this situation is better compared to the 'soverign citizen meets tazer' video.  The security guy shouldn't have been so quick on the trigger, but the soverign citizen guy was clearly an asshat who wasn't going to stop.


BLM has been the level-headed ones. This has been on-going for twenty years.
 
2014-04-15 10:30:54 AM

TheGogmagog: gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.

I cut the bits about the sister being pushed to the ground, and the son's liver damage from being stomped on.  The fact he was arrested for taking pictures and his camera was confiscated seems to be a pretty binary detail, either it did happen or it didn't and would be backed up with the police report.  I'll take his word on that one.

From reading this thread and two articles on the subject, I'm less inclined to support Bundy's claim to the land.  I tend to stay out of land wars as a general rule.  I don't know where the escelation began but both Bundy's agressiveness and the police action seem over the top.  Of the two I'm more outraged by the apparent abuse of power.

They should be the level headed ones, document how Bundy is wrong, charge him and/or take him to court and follow the process.

I think this situation is better compared to the 'soverign citizen meets tazer' video.  The security guy shouldn't have been so quick on the trigger, but the soverign citizen guy was clearly an asshat who wasn't going to stop.


Good Rule
s2.quickmeme.com
 
2014-04-15 10:32:36 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.

Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.

That would be a little counterproductive from their point of view. Manipulation works best when it's subtle. If a woman stood up and said they they wouldn't dare shoot through us for fear of public backlash, people will be less likely to be sympathetic to their cause.

Well Cleatus already done let that cat out of the bag. So be sure to let us know when you've verified your version of events.

So the alternative is that they're being coerced or manipulated? Yeah, I'm done discussing things with the enemy of reason.

For the record, I don't side with the rancher or his retarded male and female followers. I just take offense to your stereotyping and your glaring inability to see these women as anything but meat shields.

If what you're saying is accurate, they see themselves as mea ...


It's not hard for me to accept.  It's what I've been saying all along.  Though they probably think of themselves as more of a deterrent to violence, than a meat shield.
 
2014-04-15 10:32:46 AM
neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
 
2014-04-15 10:34:25 AM

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: TheGogmagog: gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.

I cut the bits about the sister being pushed to the ground, and the son's liver damage from being stomped on.  The fact he was arrested for taking pictures and his camera was confiscated seems to be a pretty binary detail, either it did happen or it didn't and would be backed up with the police report.  I'll take his word on that one.

From reading this thread and two articles on the subject, I'm less inclined to support Bundy's claim to the land.  I tend to stay out of land wars as a general rule.  I don't know where the escelation began but both Bundy's agressiveness and the police action seem over the top.  Of the two I'm more outraged by the apparent abuse of power.

They should be the level headed ones, document how Bundy is wrong, charge him and/or take him to court and follow the process.

I think this situation is better compared to the 'soverign citizen meets tazer' video.  The security guy shouldn't have been so quick on the trigger, but the soverign citizen guy was clearly an asshat who wasn't going to stop.

BLM has been the level-headed ones. This has been on-going for twenty years.


And for all the caterwauling by this cowboy welfare queen  and his deranged supporters, not a single shot has been fired by the feds.
 
2014-04-15 10:34:46 AM

someonelse: Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.

OK.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp


OH SNAP!
 
2014-04-15 10:34:51 AM

notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.


He does not read what they far right tells him..
 
2014-04-15 10:35:41 AM

notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.


Think about it a little more, you're almost there.
 
2014-04-15 10:37:06 AM

thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..


My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.
 
2014-04-15 10:38:23 AM

doglover: Publikwerks: It was something people knew how to do.

To be fair, if you haven't used a Japanese toilet, using the john seems obvious.

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 500x375]


Just rotate it 90 degrees, and it makes a good urinal.

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 10:38:46 AM
Love the way the feds take care of their land by contaminating over a trillion gallons of underground water from "the bombs" and doing nothing about it.
 
2014-04-15 10:38:51 AM

notto: MechaPyx: His family has been on that land for generations.

Yeah, they just wandered in one day - no government help or support at all, Hey!  Free Land!

If this is their land, then I'm sure they would be willing to deed it and pay back state and federal taxes on it, right?

The forfeited any rights they had because, like the current user, they were more than willing to take advantage of the public lands when it suited them. They sure didn't want to own it and pay taxes on it.


They've been there long enough his original ancestor might have done exactly that....wandered in and laid claim to it. I'm guessing they would have had more freedom to free range cattle back then. Not nearly as many neighbors around to kick up a fuss about it. Could be he's used to doing things the way his family has always done it and this little stand-off is a result of the friction between his stubborn views and reality....or he could just be an asshole. Maybe both.

Not saying he's right but I have some sympathy for his situation in part because the government can be slimy little weasels when it comes to property rights.
 
2014-04-15 10:39:42 AM
Harry's not helping those that would save him from this mess.

Harry Reid: Ranch standoff 'not over'
 
2014-04-15 10:40:54 AM
"We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front," Mack said in a Fox News clip pulled by The Blaze. "If they are going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."

Yet so far, THIS is the ony person I've seen with a drawn gun...

img.fark.net

Also, I was just watching the "video the feds don't want you to see", and the federal officer spent half of the video trying to get these shiatheads to stand the fark back so that they could release the goddam cows. He said it over and over, and the stupid militia farks kept yelling back at him that they weren't going anywhere... You get that, morons, you're getting what you want, but you can't farking pay attention. I also like how the people on camera were making fun of the feds and their "big guns", how they must 'feel like men' because they have them. What a bunch of half-wits. Where IS the other half?

http://benswann.com/the-bundy-ranch-video-facebook-wont-let-you-see/

I'm only posting this stupid article about the video, rather than a straight link to the video because they bury the update at the bottom and don't even list it as an "update". The whole farking article is about how hard it is to be a conservative on FB. THEN they add this:


It appears as though this happened to multiple non-related videos this afternoon. The situation now seems to be resolved and users are able to post the video once again directly to their walls.
 
2014-04-15 10:41:24 AM

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.


Why? The DOD was the DOW at one point. Land administration has been performed by the federal government since there was a federal government, part of that was the homestead acts that gave freeloaders like this douchenozzle their land in the first place. He didn't pay for shiat, his  family didn't pay for anything and he's exceeded his own resources rather than living in his means. Perhaps he should have purchased more land if this was super important.

Can I just wander onto federal land and put up no trespassing signs and turn it into a dirt bike park? It is shiatbags like this that string wire across trails, put up "no trespassing" signs on public land and work to prevent access for others to public land. The West is full of them and they can all suck it.
 
2014-04-15 10:41:52 AM

Satanic_Hamster: Would you agree, then, that a system should be set in place where these people can pay taxes? Maybe give them a card of some sort, where they can work legally and then pay income and payroll taxes on their labor?


Actually we should encourage more illegal immigrants because they use a fake SS card so they pay in taxes but they get no benefits back.  The people we need to be mad at are farmers and rich people for hiring people and paying them under the table.
 
2014-04-15 10:42:20 AM
We're gonna hear a lot of quiet arrests of these guys in the coming months.
 
2014-04-15 10:43:22 AM

neversubmit: Wouldn't have been great if these guys had shown up to OWS? The bankers would still be cleaning out their shorts.


"These guys" would have shot the OWS protesters, for being Murica hatin commies.
 
2014-04-15 10:44:14 AM

meat0918: We're gonna hear a lot of quiet arrests of these guys in the coming months.


I certainly hope so, what a greater mess it would be if they are not arrested.
 
2014-04-15 10:44:36 AM

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away. will get more louder and more belligerent.


FTFY
 
2014-04-15 10:45:24 AM

fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?


Here's another link that mentions the women-first policy that these "men" are thinking of using. Another nutter site, BUT when they give a specific person's name, they are leaving themselves wide open to legal issues.

http://benswann.com/exclusive-sources-inside-the-blm-and-las-vegas-m et ro-say-feds-are-planning-a-raid-on-bundy-home/
 
2014-04-15 10:45:57 AM

dr_blasto: Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.

Why? The DOD was the DOW at one point. Land administration has been performed by the federal government since there was a federal government, part of that was the homestead acts that gave freeloaders like this douchenozzle their land in the first place. He didn't pay for shiat, his  family didn't pay for anything and he's exceeded his own resources rather than living in his means. Perhaps he should have purchased more land if this was super important.

Can I just wander onto federal land and put up no trespassing signs and turn it into a dirt bike park? It is shiatbags like this that string wire across trails, put up "no trespassing" signs on public land and work to prevent access for others to public land. The West is full of them and they can all suck it.


Can a few of you "Smart" this form me?  I can only do it once.
 
2014-04-15 10:46:44 AM

Fissile: neversubmit: Wouldn't have been great if these guys had shown up to OWS? The bankers would still be cleaning out their shorts.

"These guys" would have shot the OWS protesters, for being Murica hatin commies.


I guess you're right about that, which to me says just how bad We the People are fu*ked!
 
2014-04-15 10:47:26 AM
TheGogmagog: gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: 
I cut the bits about the sister being pushed to the ground, and the son's liver damage from being stomped on.  The fact he was arrested for taking pictures and his camera was confiscated seems to be a pretty binary detail, either it did happen or it didn't and would be backed up with the police report.  I'll take his word on that one.

There's a difference between being arrested for "taking pictures", and "being arrested for trespassing in a closed area".

From reading this thread and two articles on the subject, I'm less inclined to support Bundy's claim to the land.  I tend to stay out of land wars as a general rule.  I don't know where the escelation began but both Bundy's agressiveness and the police action seem over the top.  Of the two I'm more outraged by the apparent abuse of power.

They should be the level headed ones, document how Bundy is wrong, charge him and/or take him to court and follow the process.

I think this situation is better compared to the 'soverign citizen meets tazer' video.  The security guy shouldn't have been so quick on the trigger, but the soverign citizen guy was clearly an asshat who wasn't going to stop.


From this thread, it sounds like he's been to court numerous times, but there comes a point where someone just keeps ignoring the court, and politely worded letters, and the executive branch of government is called in to enforce the actions of the judicial branch (else there would be no reason to bother having court orders!)
 
2014-04-15 10:47:47 AM

neversubmit: Harry's not helping those that would save him from this mess.

Harry Reid: Ranch standoff 'not over'


What does he need saving from? And he's right, it's definitely not over. The government is going to get paid.
 
2014-04-15 10:47:59 AM

neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.


Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.
 
2014-04-15 10:49:20 AM

thaylin: also the goal of using the women, who there is no evidence would go along with it, and would have been symbolic bullshiat.


Except it worked.
 
2014-04-15 10:49:55 AM

gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.


Yeah, he may b the dude who kicked the police dog.
 
2014-04-15 10:50:37 AM

Felgraf: way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.

It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?


If you and I let someone continue to take advantage of us, we eventually lose our right to compensation. I still don't know whether Bundy was a tenant or a trespasser but unlike the BLM, private citizens lose the right to seek damages after a period of time (Statute of Limitations, typically 3 years). If Bundy had done the same thing to another private landowner, I doubt that the private citizen would have stood by idly like the BLM appears to have done. So while Bundy may be in the wrong, this seems to be yet another example of government ineptitude. If Bundy was in violation of BLM rules, whose job was it to know it, whose job was it to deal with it once it was known or should have been known, and why didn't they do their job? If I don't do my job I don't have a job. If government is going to undertake to do a job, shouldn't they be held to the same standards as the citizens?
 
2014-04-15 10:51:31 AM

thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.

Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.


Since you're so awesome, why was the page taken down?
 
2014-04-15 10:52:43 AM
So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.
 
2014-04-15 10:54:22 AM

KyngNothing: From this thread, it sounds like he's been to court numerous times, but there comes a point where someone just keeps ignoring the court, and politely worded letters, and the executive branch of government is called in to enforce the actions of the judicial branch (else there would be no reason to bother having court orders!)


The logical conclusion is that it leads to anarchy/law of the jungle,  If these "patriots" really got of dose of what they claim they want, they'd shiat their pants.   Read this account of a Bosnia War survivor.  According to this man, the Rambo wannabes who showed up in with their tacticool gear were the first to get killed.   http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/a-survival-q-a-living- t hrough-shtf-in-the-middle-of-a-war-zone_10252011
 
2014-04-15 10:55:27 AM

doglover: thaylin: also the goal of using the women, who there is no evidence would go along with it, and would have been symbolic bullshiat.

Except it worked.


In what way? It was never implimented, therefore it did not work...
 
2014-04-15 10:55:33 AM

Publikwerks: We have a system in place for dealing with government overreach. Yes, armed rebellion can be part of it, but it should be the last step. He hasn't availed himself of it. He hasn't gone to court, hasn't argued his case in front of a judge or a jury of his peers. He has made no effort to right this, because I think he knows he's wrong.



He's been doing that for 20 years. The problem is he's wrong in every conceivable legal angle. Most moral ones, too. But there's still folken who support his idiocy. And we can't belittle their courage, even though calling it courage is a slight upon their morality. The fact remains threatening to use women as human shields shows both the cut of the womens' jib as well as the efficacy of the tactic in that the BM stood down for now.
 
2014-04-15 10:55:42 AM

doglover: thaylin: also the goal of using the women, who there is no evidence would go along with it, and would have been symbolic bullshiat.

Except it worked.


How? They didn't actually do it.
 
2014-04-15 10:57:26 AM
jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

crasstalk.com

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.
 
2014-04-15 10:57:52 AM

neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.

Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.

Since you're so awesome, why was the page taken down?



For any number of reasons that are legitimate.. From the page was supposed to be taken down already, but the government tends to forget with their billions of websites, to they just got tired of people who cannot read and use critical thinking skills using it as propaganda. The site being taken down does not confirm your conspire theory by itself...
 
2014-04-15 10:59:34 AM

dr_blasto: Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.

Why? The DOD was the DOW at one point. Land administration has been performed by the federal government since there was a federal government, part of that was the homestead acts that gave freeloaders like this douchenozzle their land in the first place. He didn't pay for shiat, his  family didn't pay for anything and he's exceeded his own resources rather than living in his means. Perhaps he should have purchased more land if this was super important.

Can I just wander onto federal land and put up no trespassing signs and turn it into a dirt bike park? It is shiatbags like this that string wire across trails, put up "no trespassing" signs on public land and work to prevent access for others to public land. The West is full of them and they can all suck it.


That's the important part... Somebody pointed out that this dude's ranch is also 160 acres, which was the amount given away in he Homestead Act, by the federal government...

FWIW, I don't consider the homesteaders to be "freeloaders", it was an incentive to populate the expanded West. Grazing on public lands, and refusing to pay the (literally) dirt cheap rates, IS freeloading, though.

As a kid, I didn't see problems with people fencing off federal lands. There were fences to keep the cattle in, but they all had unlocked gates where the roads were, and full access. That's acceptable to me. And this was in Idaho, which has a warm nutty flavor at the best of times...
 
2014-04-15 11:00:46 AM

Sgt Otter: jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

[crasstalk.com image 500x267]

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.


Really? He thinks this prevents him from getting a ticket? Is he paying per-use for the roads?
 
2014-04-15 11:01:29 AM

reubendaley: Felgraf: way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.

It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?

If you and I let someone continue to take advantage of us, we eventually lose our right to compensation. I still don't know whether Bundy was a tenant or a trespasser but unlike the BLM, private citizens lose the right to seek damages after a period of time (Statute of Limitations, typically 3 years). If Bundy had done the same thing to another private landowner, I doubt that the private citizen would have stood by idly like the BLM appears to have done. So while Bundy may be in the wrong, this seems to be yet another example of government ineptitude. If Bundy was in violation of BLM rules, whose job was it to know it, whose job was it to deal with it once it was known or should have been known, and why didn't they do their job? If I don't do my job I don't have a job. If government is going to undertake to do a job, shouldn't they be held to the same standards as the citizens?


No, they've been taking him to court this whole time, this has been tied up in court for a *while*.
 
2014-04-15 11:02:06 AM

fireclown: MythDragon: As usual, Chick has the answer.
[media.chick.com image 468x240]
[media.chick.com image 468x240]
heh-"phony calls"
[media.chick.com image 468x240]

**forhead smack**
OK, what is THAT tract about?  Hippies?  Marijuana?


Communism or some-such
 
2014-04-15 11:02:32 AM
Danger Mouse:

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

There are but Bundy ignored all of them.    He is responsible for the escalation and created the standoff.
 
2014-04-15 11:03:34 AM

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.


...considering that they were going to round up the property that was on Federal land, without grazing rights, it is "arresting cows" but removing property that has been placed improperly.

Yeah, Bundy is going to be arrested. And he's going to have assets seized. And he's going to wail and moan about it, and he's going to be hoisted up as a "hero" to folks that don't understand that he's been engaged in illegal business practices for 20 years, and despite trying to work with him, he's just compounding his problems. The question is: how much will he cop a plea for, and what sort of deal will he work out to keep at least a piece of his farm, or will he martyr himself and his family, and some useful idiots for essentially padding his profit line?

That's the issue. Not "freedom" but a businessman who has been dealing unfairly and illegally for years, and being called on it.
 
2014-04-15 11:04:15 AM

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.




Problem: cattle that do not belong there are on federal land managed by the BLM, and the owner will not remove them himself. Solution: remove them, and sell them off to recoup as much of the costs of the operation as possible.
The only fly in the ointment was the interference of a large group of loathsome morons. Since killing them would have been very bad PR, and would likely have involved some local sheriffs deputies and other LEOs also being killed or wounded, the operation was wisely called off. But Senator Reid is quite right, this is not over.
 
2014-04-15 11:05:45 AM

notto: Danger Mouse:

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

There are but Bundy ignored all of them.    He is responsible for the escalation and created the standoff.


Why wouldn't you arrest Bundy? Trying to conficaste the cattle seems...dumb. It's not like repossessing a car.

wouldn't you arrange a court date, if he doesn't show, then a warrent is issued? This seems like a farked up way to handle non payment of taxes, no?
 
2014-04-15 11:07:01 AM
So for Bundy and other rich guys, a freebie for twenty years is entitlement. For poor people, a freebie for twenty years is called a gov'ment hand out.  Did I miss something?
 
2014-04-15 11:07:22 AM

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?


For the love of god, they aren't cannibals! Plus, cows are delicious.
 
2014-04-15 11:08:24 AM

reubendaley: Felgraf: way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.

It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?

If you and I let someone continue to take advantage of us, we eventually lose our right to compensation. I still don't know whether Bundy was a tenant or a trespasser but unlike the BLM, private citizens lose the right to seek damages after a period of time (Statute of Limitations, typically 3 years). If Bundy had done the same thing to another private landowner, I doubt that the private citizen would have stood by idly like the BLM appears to have done. So while Bundy may be in the wrong, this seems to be yet another example of government ineptitude. If Bundy was in violation of BLM rules, whose job was it to know it, whose job was it to deal with it once it was known or should have been known, and why didn't they do their job? If I don't do my job I don't have a job. If government is going to undertake to do a job, shouldn't they be held to the same standards as the citizens?


Let me ask you something?  If someone commits welfare fraud does it bother you?   If that person gets away with it for 3 years should it no longer be considered a crime?  What about illegal immigrants?  If they've managed to live here for 3 years would you grant them green cards?  What about the state of Tennessee's failure to process rape kits?  Doe that gov't incompetence turn those rapes into non-crimes?  Your support of Bundy is just as ridiculous.  You and I and our children are the victims of Bundy's welfare fraud.  Why don't you want him to pay up?
 
2014-04-15 11:08:30 AM

Felgraf: Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.

Oh christ this lie again?

No.
A) The Chinese group pulled out. IN 2013

B) The proposed site was *TWO HUNDRED MILES AWAY*

C) The issue with Bundy HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR TWO DECADES.

People are playing you for a fool, and you're falling into their hands.


Everything the nut sac posted was copy pasta from some shiatty derp blog I read yesterday. So, yeah...he's beyond falling into their hands...he's crawled up their ass and is spewing out their mouth piece.
 
2014-04-15 11:09:16 AM

Sgt Otter: jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

[crasstalk.com image 500x267]

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.


This has been mentioned before, but it still amazes me; it's as though they think those words are magic spells. Say the right words in the right order, and they have to let you go. It's like a Jedi mind trick. They go to these conferences, and they are taught this nonsense, and they believe it. You wonder if they genuinely believe that stepping on a crack will break their mother's back.
 
2014-04-15 11:09:50 AM

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?


Do you ask a repo man why he's arresting your truck when you're not paying for it?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

If there were, this would already be resolved. Instead, he's being a terrorist-level dick about it, and I think he needs to be treated accordingly.
 
2014-04-15 11:10:27 AM

Truther: ///these folks believe that the government was being tyrannical with the excessive show of force


At some point you have to understand that the nutjob with a gun "fighting tyranny" is just another asshole robbing a bank or a crazy person that thinks the passers-by on the street are alien invaders that MUST. BE. STOPPED.

You have to deal with them. You cannot just allow public trust and safety to be compromised because some crazy farker didn't take his meds. If they have a gun and they shoot, it is going to end poorly for them.

This guy is a nut and he's attracted a pile of other nuts and they're all armed.

Should the government just cede control over that land without compensation to crazy rancher guy?
Should the government simply remove his cattle?
What happens when they go to remove his cattle and the rancher's friends pull out guns? That's what has happened here.

If you cede the territory, why would anyone read that as anything other than a message to simply take what you will, knowing that the government won't or can't resist your land grabs? What if I decide my neighbor's land looks good, what is the difference between me taking that and this guy taking that plot?
 
2014-04-15 11:10:48 AM
Danger Mouse:

Why wouldn't you arrest Bundy? Trying to conficaste the cattle seems...dumb. It's not like repossessing a car.

wouldn't you arrange a court date, if he doesn't show, then a warrent is issued? This seems like a farked up way to handle non payment of taxes, no?


They are removing cattle from federal land land - it's more like towing a car that has been parked overnight on a public street illegally.

This isn't just a  tax issue.    You can't graze your cattle in the public square.  They will be removed.

Do you think that you would have the right to just go ahead and start grazing cattle on any public property you wish?  If you did, would that just be a tax issue?

You seem to be building a strawman to knock down.  You seem to be the only one who considers this a tax issue.  Even Bundy doesn't believe it is.
 
2014-04-15 11:10:51 AM

untaken_name: TuteTibiImperes: The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.

Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.


FTA:  "If they are going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."

Yep, sounds to me like they're putting the women up front because they're just as good at gun fighting as men, and not to exploit them in any way.
 
2014-04-15 11:11:48 AM

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.


They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.
 
2014-04-15 11:11:48 AM

Danger Mouse: notto: Danger Mouse:

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

There are but Bundy ignored all of them.    He is responsible for the escalation and created the standoff.

Why wouldn't you arrest Bundy? Trying to conficaste the cattle seems...dumb. It's not like repossessing a car.

wouldn't you arrange a court date, if he doesn't show, then a warrent is issued? This seems like a farked up way to handle non payment of taxes, no?


Confiscation of property is sort of the next step. And in fairness, it's long overdue at this point. It is EXACTLY like taking a car to an impound yard. He has been parking his cows on Federal land for a long ass while, and unlike the car which is just taking up space, the cows have been impacting Federal lands and operations of Federal lands for some time, and without license. He could have paid for his grazing rights, and been fine, but instead, he's created his own mythos of the Brave Pioneer, despite the fact that he's a cattleman who's been using Federal lands to fatten his cattle, as opposed to using his own lands. He's been mooching for some time, and now that the bill comes due, and with interest, NOW he's upset because he doesn't like the tune--but he's been dancing for some time now, hasn't he?
 
2014-04-15 11:12:09 AM
As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deals.

It doesn't matter if it's KBR or Al Jazeerah or Solara or Enron.

The longer people keep buying into the "sides" argument, the longer those running "the show" can keep doing whatever the hell they want.

When the Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party people wake up and understand they've been played from the start and they're actually against the same thing:  people abusing the system.

The only "side" that should matter is whether you have a government that represents the people and not its own buddies and self sustainment.
 
2014-04-15 11:13:27 AM
I've always wondered if the assjacks with the cardboard "King Cletus of Cousinfark" license plates carry any car insurance -- I suspect any accident involving them turns into a mega-colon-ache as you're forced to hit up your own insurance to pay for your repairs AND deal with endless liens and lawsuits filed for "denying King Cletus his right of free passage what for the Piggly Wiggly."
 
2014-04-15 11:13:38 AM

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.




They wanted some exemplary boot kissing to keep the plebs in line.
The intimidation tactics quickly backfired tho, as the situation looked to escalate out of control.

It should never have gone this far to begin with.
BLM has confused itself with a paramilitary organization and it's got no ability to contain this mess. They could probably have negotiated a way out if this for less than the cost of their swat teams overtime.
....Or just ignored it. There is no reason to rush.

/we ignore congress, we can overlook a few ranchers.
 
2014-04-15 11:14:11 AM

Mikey1969: Sgt Otter: jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

[crasstalk.com image 500x267]

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.

Really? He thinks this prevents him from getting a ticket? Is he paying per-use for the roads?


I think these dudes just want a confrontation with a judge.  There's a few video clips of them in court.  They get into court, point out that the flag in the court room has gold fringe, making it a Naval Standard, and not a legitimate U.S. flag, which automatically makes this an Admiralty Court, and as they are not a member of the U.S. Navy (or a POW of a hostile foreign power), are exempt from prosecution.  Your Honor, case dismissed, and award me threeve quazillion dollars in gold bullion and  for kidnapping.
 
2014-04-15 11:14:20 AM

LoioshASH: As I understand it,. . .   UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.


Your understanding is contradicted by reality.  What private company 'was interested in purchasing the land'?  Please be specific.
 
2014-04-15 11:15:21 AM

Courtney Love's Genital Warts: They're freaking cows. They do what they want.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FavUpD_IjVY
 
2014-04-15 11:15:37 AM

MythDragon: fireclown: MythDragon: As usual, Chick has the answer.
[media.chick.com image 468x240]
[media.chick.com image 468x240]
heh-"phony calls"
[media.chick.com image 468x240]

**forhead smack**
OK, what is THAT tract about?  Hippies?  Marijuana?

Communism or some-such


Man, these things have an artistry to them that no Fred Phelps could ever match. This dude really could have made some dough in marketing...
 
2014-04-15 11:16:05 AM

thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.

Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.

Since you're so awesome, why was the page taken down?


For any number of reasons that are legitimate.. From the page was supposed to be taken down already, but the government tends to forget with their billions of websites, to they just got tired of people who cannot read and use critical thinking skills using it as propaganda. The site being taken down does not confirm your conspire theory by itself...


Well imagine that it's all a coincidence, ya know sometimes shiat just happens :)
 
2014-04-15 11:16:55 AM

meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.


...and then when they come to arrest him, he summons back those 1,500 people who were defending him, and we're back at square one.  And yet again, this ends peacefully (with him getting away with it) or justly (with the government with blood on its hands), but not both (where 90% of the "rational solutions" would be if both parties were rational actors, except one party isn't.)
 
2014-04-15 11:21:15 AM
Republican has cows eating grass

cdn.rt.com

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
vote29.com

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 11:23:32 AM

Repo Man: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

Problem: cattle that do not belong there are on federal land managed by the BLM, and the owner will not remove them himself. Solution: remove them, and sell them off to recoup as much of the costs of the operation as possible.
The only fly in the ointment was the interference of a large group of loathsome morons. Since killing them would have been very bad PR, and would likely have involved some local sheriffs deputies and other LEOs also being killed or wounded, the operation was wisely called off. But Senator Reid is quite right, this is not over.


Nope.  Just 'til after election time.
 
2014-04-15 11:24:02 AM

neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.

Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.

Since you're so awesome, why was the page taken down?


For any number of reasons that are legitimate.. From the page was supposed to be taken down already, but the government tends to forget with their billions of websites, to they just got tired of people who cannot read and use critical thinking skills using it as propaganda. The site being taken down does not confirm your conspire theory by itself...

Well imagine that it's all a coincidence, ya know sometimes shiat just happens :)


See how I said your comprehension just sucks, and then you go out and prove it.. One of my statements was that they were tired of it being used by propaganda, which would make it not coincidence, ya know?
 
2014-04-15 11:25:40 AM

IlGreven: meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.

...and then when they come to arrest him, he summons back those 1,500 people who were defending him, and we're back at square one.  And yet again, this ends peacefully (with him getting away with it) or justly (with the government with blood on its hands), but not both (where 90% of the "rational solutions" would be if both parties were rational actors, except one party isn't.)


They aren't going to go out to his ranch to arrest him.  It's too dangerous.  They'll let him come to them.
 
2014-04-15 11:26:25 AM

thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.

Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.

Since you're so awesome, why was the page taken down?


For any number of reasons that are legitimate.. From the page was supposed to be taken down already, but the government tends to forget with their billions of websites, to they just got tired of people who cannot read and use critical thinking skills using it as propaganda. The site being taken down does not confirm your conspire theory by itself...

Well imagine that it's all a coincidence, ya know sometimes shiat just happens :)

See how I said your comprehension just sucks, and then you go out and prove it.. One of my statements was that they were tired of it being used by propaganda, which would make it not coincidence, ya know?


Taking in down helps that how? See how much my comprehension sucks? LOL
 
2014-04-15 11:29:16 AM

neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.

Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.

Since you're so awesome, why was the page taken down?


For any number of reasons that are legitimate.. From the page was supposed to be taken down already, but the government tends to forget with their billions of websites, to they just got tired of people who cannot read and use critical thinking skills using it as propaganda. The site being taken down does not confirm your conspire theory by itself...

Well imagine that it's all a coincidence, ya know sometimes shiat just happens :)

See how I said your comprehension just sucks, and then you go out and prove it.. One of my statements was that they were tired of it being used by propaganda, which would make it not coincidence, ya know?

Taking in down helps that how? See how much my comprehension sucks? LOL


Yes, still very badly, since we were talking about coincidences at that point..Even still it helps as less people will see it to use it, other than those that have already seen it, or are going to be shown it in the first place.
 
2014-04-15 11:30:22 AM
The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.
 
2014-04-15 11:31:04 AM

Mikey1969: dr_blasto: Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.

Why? The DOD was the DOW at one point. Land administration has been performed by the federal government since there was a federal government, part of that was the homestead acts that gave freeloaders like this douchenozzle their land in the first place. He didn't pay for shiat, his  family didn't pay for anything and he's exceeded his own resources rather than living in his means. Perhaps he should have purchased more land if this was super important.

Can I just wander onto federal land and put up no trespassing signs and turn it into a dirt bike park? It is shiatbags like this that string wire across trails, put up "no trespassing" signs on public land and work to prevent access for others to public land. The West is full of them and they can all suck it.

That's the important part... Somebody pointed out that this dude's ranch is also 160 acres, which was the amount given away in he Homestead Act, by the federal government...

FWIW, I don't consider the homesteaders to be "freeloaders", it was an incentive to populate the expanded West. Grazing on public lands, and refusing to pay the (literally) dirt cheap rates, IS freeloading, though.

As a kid, I didn't see problems with people fencing off federal lands. There were fences to keep the cattle in, but they all had unlocked gates where the roads were, and full access. That's acceptable to me. And this was in Idaho, which has a warm nutty flavor at the best of times...


Calling the homesteaders "freeloaders" was invective for Fark fun.

Technically, the homestead act was designed not only to help move people west, but to also change the farm system from slave-based to individuals working the land. As direct competition to the plantation model, more individuals with smaller tracts that were workable kept that plantation model from spewing out west with the population expansions.The first act was signed in 1862 by Lincoln, at that time, 11 states had already seceded. The philosophy was that if you give people free shiat, they'd stick around.

It worked really well; except that now, you've got groups of original homesteader family descendents doing their level best to fark shiat up for everyone around them. They've gotten entire tracts of land handed to them for nothing, yet complain.
 
2014-04-15 11:31:36 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.


You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.
 
2014-04-15 11:32:58 AM

thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.

Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.

Since you're so awesome, why was the page taken down?


For any number of reasons that are legitimate.. From the page was supposed to be taken down already, but the government tends to forget with their billions of websites, to they just got tired of people who cannot read and use critical thinking skills using it as propaganda. The site being taken down does not confirm your conspire theory by itself...

Well imagine that it's all a coincidence, ya know sometimes shiat just happens :)

See how I said your comprehension just sucks, and then you go out and prove it.. One of my statements was that they were tired of it being used by propaganda, which would make it not coincidence, ya know?

Taking in down helps that how? See how much my comprehension sucks? LOL

Yes, still very badly, since we were talking about coincidences at that point..Even still it helps as less people will see it to use it, other than those that have already seen it, or are going to be shown it in the first place.


Is it a coincidence or not? Ever heard of the Streisand effect?
 
2014-04-15 11:34:17 AM

RevMark: someonelse: Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.

OK.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp

OH SNAP!


You know what's really funny about this claim? Bunkerville is just south of mesquite. You've only been in the "flat" part of Nevada for maybe 10 miles. There is PLENTY of other land for the government to "confiscate" other than this guy's land. It's a flat farking state. I could see NO reason to build anything near Bunkerville. Hell, on the other end of Vegas, south of Boulder City is a dry lake bed that is in such need of ANYTHING being developed there that on windy days you can't see a goddamned thing because of the dust. There's one solar plant there, and about 100X the land THAT one takes up that is just flat, shiatty dust.

They don't need this guy's goddamn "land", there are a billion better places in Nevada to build this plant, and the state is 81% federal land.
 
2014-04-15 11:34:24 AM
LoioshASH: As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deals.

It doesn't matter if it's KBR or Al Jazeerah or Solara or Enron.

The longer people keep buying into the "sides" argument, the longer those running "the show" can keep doing whatever the hell they want.

When the Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party people wake up and understand they've been played from the start and they're actually against the same thing:  people abusing the system.

The only "side" that should matter is whether you have a government that represents the people and not its own buddies and self sustainment.


You understand incorrectly. The opposite of the bolded bit is correct. The rancher has lost every court case. The government has finally had to remove the cows; hell, this is the nicest they could be. They didn't arrest him, they're just doing the animal equivalent of towing an illegally parked car.
 
2014-04-15 11:35:06 AM

Sgt Otter: jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

[crasstalk.com image 500x267]

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.


There should be a law making it legal to run anyone with a plate like that off the road, then beat them to death with a tire iron.
 
2014-04-15 11:35:20 AM

Publikwerks: We have a system in place for dealing with government overreach. Yes, armed rebellion can be part of it, but it should be the last step.


Is the second amendment the last amendment? No? Check and mate, hippie.
 
2014-04-15 11:35:22 AM

meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.


He doesn't own nearly enough land to support the cattle. If they don't stay on the federal land they'll starve to death.

The cattle are in a continuous state of trespass.
 
2014-04-15 11:35:27 AM

neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.

Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.

Since you're so awesome, why was the page taken down?


For any number of reasons that are legitimate.. From the page was supposed to be taken down already, but the government tends to forget with their billions of websites, to they just got tired of people who cannot read and use critical thinking skills using it as propaganda. The site being taken down does not confirm your conspire theory by itself...

Well imagine that it's all a coincidence, ya know sometimes shiat just happens :)

See how I said your comprehension just sucks, and then you go out and prove it.. One of my statements was that they were tired of it being used by propaganda, which would make it not coincidence, ya know?

Taking in down helps that how? See how much my comprehension sucks? LOL

Yes, still very badly, since we were talking about coincidences at that point..Even still it helps as less people will see it to use it, other than those that have already seen it, or are going to be shown it in the first place.

Is it a coincidence or not? Ever heard of the Streisand effect?


See again with your failure to comprehend the matter at hand. That statement was not stating it was a coincidence, but that we were talking about coincidences, as in if it was one or not... You make me believe you are either a troll or scored really low on the IQ charts.
 
2014-04-15 11:35:49 AM

JohnnyC: jntaylor63: What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

All is forgiven if you claim to support the GOP. You're only on the shiat list if you don't vote Republican.


What amuses me is since he's a sovereign citizen type, it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't vote Republican. I bet he'd be pulling this same shiat if an R was president.
 
2014-04-15 11:36:45 AM

Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,


Well, you do say a lot of stupid shiat, so I'm not surprised you'd say that too.
 
2014-04-15 11:38:13 AM

neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.


No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.
 
2014-04-15 11:39:40 AM
Nutsac_Jim:

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]


Actually, that picture is from during the Bush years.

http://www.reform-america.net/politics072108.html

www.thorninpaw.com
 
2014-04-15 11:39:50 AM

grumpfuff: What amuses me is since he's a sovereign citizen type, it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't vote Republican. I bet he'd be pulling this same shiat if an R was president.


Considering that he's been doing it for 20+ years now that's a pretty damn safe bet.
 
2014-04-15 11:40:42 AM

grumpfuff: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

Well, you do say a lot of stupid shiat, so I'm not surprised you'd say that too.


lol
 
2014-04-15 11:40:53 AM

Pangea: meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.

He doesn't own nearly enough land to support the cattle. If they don't stay on the federal land they'll starve to death.

The cattle are in a continuous state of trespass.


So in other words dude needs to either buy more land or get rid of some cows and he's been unwilling to do either.
 
2014-04-15 11:41:01 AM

thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: thaylin: notto: neversubmit:


Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

He does not read what they far right tells him..

My reading is fine, your comprehension  not so much.

Actually your comprehension sucks. This was a PLANNING project, not an actual production project. The projects last actual update was sometime in 2012 as well, as evidenced to the end of all meetings on the subject, well before reports that the project was cancelled...

So again, your comprehension sucks.

Since you're so awesome, why was the page taken down?


For any number of reasons that are legitimate.. From the page was supposed to be taken down already, but the government tends to forget with their billions of websites, to they just got tired of people who cannot read and use critical thinking skills using it as propaganda. The site being taken down does not confirm your conspire theory by itself...

Well imagine that it's all a coincidence, ya know sometimes shiat just happens :)

See how I said your comprehension just sucks, and then you go out and prove it.. One of my statements was that they were tired of it being used by propaganda, which would make it not coincidence, ya know?

Taking in down helps that how? See how much my comprehension sucks? LOL

Yes, still very badly, since we were talking about coincidences at that point..Even still it helps as less people will see it to use it, other than those that have already seen it, or are going to be shown it in the first place.

Is it a coincidence or not? Ever heard of the Streisand effect?

See again with your failure to comprehend the matter at hand. ...


Does that mean you have never heard of the Streisand effect? LOL You act as if everything happens in a vacuum and if you need that... well fine, enjoy.
 
2014-04-15 11:41:12 AM

neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.


Or, sometimes organizations just take web pages down.
 
2014-04-15 11:41:42 AM

dittybopper: TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.


IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED IT, EVEN CONSIDERING IT AS AN OPTION IS FARKING VILE, DISGUSTING, AND COWARDLY.
 
2014-04-15 11:42:17 AM

grumpfuff: dittybopper: TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED IT, EVEN CONSIDERING IT AS AN OPTION IS FARKING VILE, DISGUSTING, AND COWARDLY.


Oi. Didn't implement it.
 
2014-04-15 11:42:30 AM

thaylin: neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.

No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.


Well, there is perhaps a little conspiracy going on. After 20 years of this crap, you'd think that someone might have gone after this asshat a bit earlier. I don't think that the timing is so much of a particular issue, as someone finally got fed up with his BS and decided to finally call him on it. Someone has been covering for his ass for a while, and now that they're gone, things are steamrolling ahead.
 
2014-04-15 11:42:34 AM

grumpfuff: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

Well, you do say a lot of stupid shiat, so I'm not surprised you'd say that too.


I know that I don't speak for most of us, but destruction of lands held in the public trust by illegal activities is pretty frowned on around here.
 
2014-04-15 11:42:47 AM

way south: One could say that it was an example of what happens when you don't leave people alone.
Of course we can't know what was really going through McVeigh's head, but revenge was among the theories. Abuses by the fed aren't soon forgotten or forgiven by some people.


McVeigh was pretty open that his motive was reprisal for Waco and Ruby Ridge.
 
2014-04-15 11:43:40 AM

neversubmit: Does that mean you have never heard of the Streisand effect? LOL You act as if everything happens in a vacuum and if you need that... well fine, enjoy.


Can't you retards atleast stop just quoting the entire thing making it a wall of text?  Jesus you guys are worse than old people with the FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW: emails
 
2014-04-15 11:44:18 AM

ThighsofGlory: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.

You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.


They love death and torture.
 
2014-04-15 11:44:47 AM

MechaPyx: Pangea: meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.

He doesn't own nearly enough land to support the cattle. If they don't stay on the federal land they'll starve to death.

The cattle are in a continuous state of trespass.

So in other words dude needs to either buy more land or get rid of some cows and he's been unwilling to do either.


Correct.
 
2014-04-15 11:44:57 AM

MechaPyx: Pangea: meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.

He doesn't own nearly enough land to support the cattle. If they don't stay on the federal land they'll starve to death.

The cattle are in a continuous state of trespass.

So in other words dude needs to either buy more land or get rid of some cows and he's been unwilling to do either.


...or he could just pay the grazing fees in the first place. He'd still make a profit, but not the kind that he's used to since he's been freeloading for so long.
 
2014-04-15 11:45:39 AM

thaylin: neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.

No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.


Conspiracy? What conspiracy? I don't see any conspiracy happening, just business as usual, the only odd thing about it is people paying attention to it.  You are the only one talking about conspiracies, what does that do for you?
 
2014-04-15 11:46:18 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The NSA should track down everyone shown pointing guns at the BLM agents from the photos and charge them all with terrorism.


Yeah, there's the rub. "Legally" is a trivial hurdle. "Rightfully" is what the entire fight is about.

Consider that executing Jim Crow laws, fugitive slave laws, and interning the Japanese were also the US government legally executing its authority.

As to the NSA -- do you think something like that would lead to less of this, or more?
 
2014-04-15 11:46:44 AM

hubiestubert: thaylin: neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.

No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.

Well, there is perhaps a little conspiracy going on. After 20 years of this crap, you'd think that someone might have gone after this asshat a bit earlier. I don't think that the timing is so much of a particular issue, as someone finally got fed up with his BS and decided to finally call him on it. Someone has been covering for his ass for a while, and now that they're gone, things are steamrolling ahead.


Or it could be that the last court cases was heard. The court case in 1998 ruled that he had to remove the cattle and it seems that he made a slight effort but then let them go back over the years leading to another court action in 2012 that just ended.
 
2014-04-15 11:47:42 AM

hubiestubert: thaylin: neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.

No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.

Well, there is perhaps a little conspiracy going on. After 20 years of this crap, you'd think that someone might have gone after this asshat a bit earlier. I don't think that the timing is so much of a particular issue, as someone finally got fed up with his BS and decided to finally call him on it. Someone has been covering for his ass for a while, and now that they're gone, things are steamrolling ahead.


Nonsense, stuff just happens. Only stupid, crazy, people think otherwise.
 
2014-04-15 11:47:49 AM

hubiestubert: thaylin: neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.

No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.

Well, there is perhaps a little conspiracy going on. After 20 years of this crap, you'd think that someone might have gone after this asshat a bit earlier. I don't think that the timing is so much of a particular issue, as someone finally got fed up with his BS and decided to finally call him on it. Someone has been covering for his ass for a while, and now that they're gone, things are steamrolling ahead.


The last court case was in August 2013, this is just the actions resulting from that decision. He's been dragging it out in the courts for years and courts are slow so long as nobody is pressing for quick resolutions.
 
2014-04-15 11:48:23 AM

neversubmit: Does that mean you have never heard of the Streisand effect? LOL You act as if everything happens in a vacuum and if you need that... well fine, enjoy.


Where did I say I never heard of it? Also what makes you think I believe everything happens in a vacuum. You are making loads of logical leaps, if you need that to make an argument you have some issues.
 
2014-04-15 11:48:59 AM

notto: Danger Mouse:

Why wouldn't you arrest Bundy? Trying to conficaste the cattle seems...dumb. It's not like repossessing a car.

wouldn't you arrange a court date, if he doesn't show, then a warrent is issued? This seems like a farked up way to handle non payment of taxes, no?

They are removing cattle from federal land land - it's more like towing a car that has been parked overnight on a public street illegally.

This isn't just a  tax issue.    You can't graze your cattle in the public square.  They will be removed.

Do you think that you would have the right to just go ahead and start grazing cattle on any public property you wish?  If you did, would that just be a tax issue?

You seem to be building a strawman to knock down.  You seem to be the only one who considers this a tax issue.  Even Bundy doesn't believe it is.


No. I'm not building a straw man.  There was a time where you could indeed use public property for you animals to graze,They were called commons.   I was under the impression that Bundy and others could uses these open puvlic lands to graze if they paid a $ per head of cattle -which Bundy refused to do and owed  what was estimated to be aprox $1m in back fees/taxes.
 
2014-04-15 11:49:53 AM

neversubmit: thaylin: neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.

No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.

Conspiracy? What conspiracy? I don't see any conspiracy happening, just business as usual, the only odd thing about it is people paying attention to it.  You are the only one talking about conspiracies, what does that do for you?


I am the only one using the WORD conspiracy, but you are still talking about it...
 
2014-04-15 11:50:22 AM
This needs to be mentioned again:

Cliven Bundy says he acknowledges Nevada law, but not federal law. But Nevada law expressly acknowledges the supremacy of federal law, and condemns the conduct of domestic terrorists like Cliven Bundy.

Will this reality impact the behavior of Cliven Bundy or his band of gun toting thugs? Don't count on it. Cliven Bundy and his supporters are nothing more than sociopaths. Bundy's refusal to surrender despite this clause conclusively proves he acknowledges no law whatsoever. He's just a self-entitled criminal with a moderately advanced knowledge of PR tactics.

I hope this "man" dies in the deepest darkest loneliest pit at ADX Florence.

From the Nevada Constitution:

All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair, subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.
 
2014-04-15 11:51:47 AM

CRtwenty: Even before the BLM existed the land was still owned by the Government. Are you saying that the Government isn't allowed to change the rules for using their own land?


Some parts of the west are still governed by covenants originally signed with Spain.
 
2014-04-15 11:51:57 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Republican has cows eating grass

[cdn.rt.com image 410x230]

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

[img.fark.net image 160x186]


Stop lying.
 
2014-04-15 11:52:03 AM

Felgraf: way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.

It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?


The US government wont even follow the laws it passes on itself, so whats the point? Yes, eventually Bundy will die of old age... which will be much better than a shootout. "Way South" is right, at what point did BLM decide it needs a SWAT team? We're quibbling over land that no one else is using (not even the turtle), and arguing - "oh, so he can just ignore the law eh?!" is ridiculous since corporations, illegal immigrants, congress, and unions all get to ignore the law, Bundy does too.

/a firefight here would have been stupid. The government can do way worse through legal and peaceful means.
 
2014-04-15 11:53:17 AM

Silly_Sot: If they were planning on putting women up as human shields, then they were terrorists.


... who were they terrorizing?
 
2014-04-15 11:53:23 AM

thaylin: neversubmit: Does that mean you have never heard of the Streisand effect? LOL You act as if everything happens in a vacuum and if you need that... well fine, enjoy.

Where did I say I never heard of it? Also what makes you think I believe everything happens in a vacuum. You are making loads of logical leaps, if you need that to make an argument you have some issues.


Well you've convinced me you are right and I am wrong. Please come back for the follow up. gtg
 
2014-04-15 11:54:21 AM

neversubmit: Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.


That's a great link... Here's something that was buried pretty deeply(As in all around your quote):

Examples of Recent Incidents of Private Property Damage Caused by Bundy's Trespass Cattle
One feral cow was hit by an automobile within Lake Mead National Recreation Area.  Cattle are frequently seen on public roads, including State Route 170 and pose a danger to vehicles and to members of the public traveling on public roads.
Overton Wildlife Refuge (State of Nevada) employee attacked by a Bundy bull.
Crop destroyed by Bundy cattle on private land.
Mesquite Heritage Community Garden damaged by trespass cattle.
Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle.


Examples of Restoration Funding and Viability Impacted
A $400,000 matching grant to restore Southwest Willow Flycatcher habitat along the Virgin River from the Walton Family Foundation was withdrawn until the trespass cattle have been removed. 
A $160,000 Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act project to restore Southwestern Willow Flycatcher has been delayed until trespass cattle are removed.
Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
The Nevada State Department of Wildlife has built extensive fences to protect state and federal lands protected as the Overton Wildlife Refuge from the trespass cattle.


Examples of Public Concerns
Residents of the communities of Bunkerville and Mesquite have complained about the impact of cattle on city facilities. 
Within the last month, letters requesting action have also been received from several individuals, Friends of Nevada Wilderness, Friends of Gold Butte and Friends of Joshua Tree Forest. 
The Center for Biological Diversity has demanded action to resolve trespass in designated critical desert tortoise habitat in several letters. 
Western Watersheds has requested a verbal status update and later filed a Freedom of Information Act request.


Examples of Natural and Cultural Resource Damage
Cattle have crushed artifacts at the "Red Racer" and St. Thomas cultural sites.
Damage to springs, including fecal contamination, trampling soils and vegetation and impacts to wildlife. Wildlife will avoid springs with large numbers of cattle.
Damage to springs with sensitive amphibians, including the rare relict leopard frog.
Multiple instances of vegetation damage to rare plants, including on monitoring plots after extensive wildfires within critical habitat for Desert Tortoise.
Unauthorized reservoir constructed with bulldozer twice.


Now, onto the "Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone"...
Here it is:
blmsolar.anl.gov
http://blmsolar.anl.gov/sez/nv/dry-lake/
Now, let's look at a Google Map for "Bunkerville, NV"

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bunkerville,+NV/­[nospam-﹫-backwards]63*7219429,-114.1 37 86,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x80cbd54ec0ad6e5f:0x353eb5bdcea1bf77

Wow, it's bordered on the North by I-15, and the West, South and East bty Lake Mead Recreational Area. I wonder where that is in relation to the "Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone"?
 Let's look at my poor skills with the Windows 7 Snipping Tool...

img.fark.net

The bottom red circle is about where 'Gold Butte' is located, and the upper red circle is where Bunkervile is. See the highlighted area? That's your 'Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone'. That's a pretty stupid place to have offsite facilities for a proposed solar plant... See all of the natural geologic barriers, as well as the lack of any real roads?

The guy has been illegally grazing his cattle for 20 years, his neighbors are pissed, the residents of Mesquite are pissed, his cows are trampling protected sites, and someone keeps illegally digging reservoirs to water these cattle.

I'm sure the feds were just DYING to place an offsite facility in a place that would take hours upon hours to get to.
 
2014-04-15 11:55:28 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Republican has cows eating grass

[cdn.rt.com image 410x230]

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

[img.fark.net image 160x186]


"My original argument got shredded to pieces, so now I'm going to post a non-sequitor straw man with pictures"
 
2014-04-15 11:56:19 AM

This text is now purple: TuteTibiImperes: Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The NSA should track down everyone shown pointing guns at the BLM agents from the photos and charge them all with terrorism.


Yeah, there's the rub. "Legally" is a trivial hurdle. "Rightfully" is what the entire fight is about.


No, no it's not.  If you believe that, then you also believe that the conclusion of this round of the fight conclusively proves that might makes right.
 
2014-04-15 11:56:20 AM
dr_blasto: It worked really well; except that now, you've got groups of original homesteader family descendents doing their level best to fark shiat up for everyone around them. They've gotten entire tracts of land handed to them for nothing, yet complain.

Yeah, that annoys the fark out of me. i just waned to clarify that I stand behind the concept of the Homestead Act, but we appear to be on the same page here...
 
2014-04-15 11:57:23 AM

meat0918: IlGreven: meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.

...and then when they come to arrest him, he summons back those 1,500 people who were defending him, and we're back at square one.  And yet again, this ends peacefully (with him getting away with it) or justly (with the government with blood on its hands), but not both (where 90% of the "rational solutions" would be if both parties were rational actors, except one party isn't.)

They aren't going to go out to his ranch to arrest him.  It's too dangerous.  They'll let him come to them.


And after this standoff, do you think he'll ever be going off his property again? Especially when he now knows he has a few friends at his beck and call?
 
2014-04-15 11:57:31 AM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Sgt Otter: jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

[crasstalk.com image 500x267]

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.

There should be a law making it legal to run anyone with a plate like that off the road, then beat them to death with a tire iron.


Tire iron? I'd just use my willy to flail them into submission...
 
2014-04-15 11:58:57 AM

Repo Man: This has been mentioned before, but it still amazes me; it's as though they think those words are magic spells. Say the right words in the right order, and they have to let you go. It's like a Jedi mind trick. They go to these conferences, and they are taught this nonsense, and they believe it.


It would be idiotic if the court system didn't occasionally resemble the workings of alchemy, and if just and unjust weren't so different from right and wrong and true and false.
 
2014-04-15 11:59:17 AM

TNel: neversubmit: Does that mean you have never heard of the Streisand effect? LOL You act as if everything happens in a vacuum and if you need that... well fine, enjoy.

Can't you retards atleast stop just quoting the entire thing making it a wall of text?  Jesus you guys are worse than old people with the FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW: emails


If you post from a lot of the browsers on an Android device, I can attest to the fact that quoting isn't possible, neither is marking up with bold, italics, underline, etc... Don't know about iOS, but I think Opera is the only browser I've used on my phone or tablet that gives me the editing capabilities of Fark, including only selecting the text you want to quote and/or reply to.
 
2014-04-15 12:01:46 PM

Danger Mouse: I was under the impression that Bundy and others could uses these open puvlic lands to graze if they paid a $ per head of cattle -which Bundy refused to do and owed  what was estimated to be aprox $1m in back fees/taxes.


Yes, it's still allowed all over the place. The fark of it is, they get a killing on those grazing fees, far less than itr would cost if they owned land, and the shiatstain is STILL complaining.
 
2014-04-15 12:03:52 PM

Deep Contact: They love death and torture.


He says, from behind his keyboard, giggling and eating cheetos.
 
2014-04-15 12:04:36 PM

HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".

I don't recall anyone in OWS being armed and threatening to shoot federal employees while hiding behind women. You're a farking lunatic.


He and all of Bundy's apologists are sane. They're just evil.

Did I mention that the Nevada Constitution, which Bundy claims to acknowledge as legitimate, expressly acknowledges the legitimacy and supremacy of the federal government, and specifically condemns the acts of domestic terrorists like Cliven Bundy and his band of thug supporters?

Oh, you say I did mention that? Well I don't think it hurts to cover it again. From the Nevada Constitution:

The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.

I don't know about you. But I'd personally be in favor of respecting Nevada's state sovereignty here.

By using some armed force to compel obedience to federal authority. Just like their constitution specifies.

Respect states' rights: jail the sociopath Cliven Bundy and his army of America haters NOW.
 
2014-04-15 12:04:41 PM

Mikey1969: Don't know about iOS, but I think Opera is the only browser I've used on my phone or tablet that gives me the editing capabilities of Fark, including only selecting the text you want to quote and/or reply to.


Safari on iOS, as well as iOS Chrome make quoting and editing a post a nightmare.
 
2014-04-15 12:05:53 PM
Danger Mouse:

No. I'm not building a straw man.  There was a time where you could indeed use public property for you animals to graze,They were called commons.   I was under the impression that Bundy and others could uses these open puvlic lands to graze if they paid a $ per head of cattle -which Bundy refused to do and owed  what was estimated to be aprox $1m in back fees/taxes.

He has been ordered to get his cows off of the land.  Even if he was up to date on his fees (not taxes) he would still need to get his cattle off the land because grazing is no longer allowed on the site.

This is not a tax issue.
 
2014-04-15 12:06:16 PM

untaken_name: TuteTibiImperes: The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.

Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.


Know how I can tell you didn't RTFA?

The source actually admits that the strategy was to use women on the front lines specifically so that they would be seen getting shot.  So that's not about treating women as equals, it's about playing for shock value and viewing women as disposable.

And while there's plenty of confirmation bias all round, the point is that Glenn Beck's site is NOT a "news" site, but an opinion site that is unapologetically biased, and to see an item like this on a source that would generally be first in line to back this moronic "principled stand" is unusual enough to warrant comment.  It lends additional credibility that the guy you'd expect to back them is calling them on their shiat.
 
2014-04-15 12:06:23 PM

MechaPyx: Pangea: meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.

He doesn't own nearly enough land to support the cattle. If they don't stay on the federal land they'll starve to death.

The cattle are in a continuous state of trespass.

So in other words dude needs to either buy more land or get rid of some cows and he's been unwilling to do either.


The US government would be totally fine with a third option.

Pay the well established fees associated with allowing private citizens access to federal lands, on which the cattle can then legally graze.
 
2014-04-15 12:06:33 PM

IlGreven: This text is now purple: TuteTibiImperes: Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The NSA should track down everyone shown pointing guns at the BLM agents from the photos and charge them all with terrorism.

Yeah, there's the rub. "Legally" is a trivial hurdle. "Rightfully" is what the entire fight is about.

No, no it's not.  If you believe that, then you also believe that the conclusion of this round of the fight conclusively proves that might makes right.


What on earth are you going on about?

The argument was this: Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The problem with this statement is that no one involved here fulfills all the requirements. The various parties who were considering taking arms were doing so because they either believe it was not legal or not rightful. I tend to consider "not rightful" the more meaningful argument, because legality is trivial for a sovereign entity to assert. Many injustices are asserted under cover of legality. That's a stickier argument for rightful.
 
2014-04-15 12:08:39 PM

Mikey1969: Danger Mouse: I was under the impression that Bundy and others could uses these open puvlic lands to graze if they paid a $ per head of cattle -which Bundy refused to do and owed  what was estimated to be aprox $1m in back fees/taxes.

Yes, it's still allowed all over the place. The fark of it is, they get a killing on those grazing fees, far less than itr would cost if they owned land, and the shiatstain is STILL complaining.


And less than if the federal government charged market value for the grazing fees. It's a taxpayer subsidy for the beef industry. But Cliven Bundy feels self-entitled to more. So self-entitled, he's willing to use women as human shields to get it.
 
2014-04-15 12:10:31 PM

This text is now purple: IlGreven: This text is now purple: TuteTibiImperes: Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The NSA should track down everyone shown pointing guns at the BLM agents from the photos and charge them all with terrorism.

Yeah, there's the rub. "Legally" is a trivial hurdle. "Rightfully" is what the entire fight is about.

No, no it's not.  If you believe that, then you also believe that the conclusion of this round of the fight conclusively proves that might makes right.

What on earth are you going on about?

The argument was this: Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The problem with this statement is that no one involved here fulfills all the requirements. The various parties who were considering taking arms were doing so because they either believe it was not legal or not rightful. I tend to consider "not rightful" the more meaningful argument, because legality is trivial for a sovereign entity to assert. Many injustices are asserted under cover of legality. That's a stickier argument for rightful.


You state the argument, then twist the argument. It is not up to the people to determine if they believe the action was legal or not, that is for the courts to decide, otherwise every single statement like this has an easy way out for everyone.
 
2014-04-15 12:11:52 PM

IlGreven: Again, this can have a peaceful end (in which case he gets away with his transgression and emboldens many others to do similar), or it can end justly (in which case, however it gets there, the federal government will have to fire on him and his supporters, thus getting blood on their hands and making him a martyr, and emboldening many others to do similar).  It cannot have both.


ftfy
 
2014-04-15 12:15:17 PM

Sgt Otter: jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

[crasstalk.com image 500x267]

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.


I think we should deport them as non-citizens. I mean, if they really are sovereigns exempt from US law, that means they are illegal immigrants. Being illegal immigrants, they must be deported. I'm sure we could find somewhere to send them, some country they'd like better.
 
2014-04-15 12:17:51 PM

dr_blasto: The last court case was in August 2013, this is just the actions resulting from that decision. He's been dragging it out in the courts for years and courts are slow so long as nobody is pressing for quick resolutions.


Yea but those courts probably displayed flags with gold fringe making the court decisions non-binding.
 
2014-04-15 12:19:23 PM

Satanic_Hamster: SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: I am astonished there is anyone at all defending Bundy on this. He's so blatantly in the wrong, his position is pretty much indefensible.

This thread has been a useful tool in exposing the most worthless idiots on Fark. I'm just disgusted.

A few people have surprised me, to be honest.  This thread has separated a few people from being far right wing douches from the out right trolls.


On the plus side, there have been several people for whom I hold more respect than than I did before this whole Bundy thing hit Fark.  Mainly people whom I had marked down as right wing nutjobs who have demonstrated that, while their politics may differ greatly from mine, are not the complete idiots I had feared they were.
 
2014-04-15 12:19:32 PM

thaylin: neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.

No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.


Excuse me, but you've been the low IQ rep on this thread, offering nothing but gratuitous insults, and blatant denials of obvious pieces of evidence that have been put directly in front of you on your magic computer screen to contradict you.  Please show some citations and documented history that backs your position, and stop with the ad hominem insults.
 
2014-04-15 12:21:35 PM

Graffito: reubendaley: Felgraf: way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.

It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?

If you and I let someone continue to take advantage of us, we eventually lose our right to compensation. I still don't know whether Bundy was a tenant or a trespasser but unlike the BLM, private citizens lose the right to seek damages after a period of time (Statute of Limitations, typically 3 years). If Bundy had done the same thing to another private landowner, I doubt that the private citizen would have stood by idly like the BLM appears to have done. So while Bundy may be in the wrong, this seems to be yet another example of government ineptitude. If Bundy was in violation of BLM rules, whose job was it to know it, whose job was it to deal with it once it was known or should have been known, and why didn't they do their job? If I don't do my job I don't have a job. If government is going to undertake to do a job, shouldn't they be held to the same standards as the citizens?

Let me ask you something?  If someone commits welfare fraud does it bother you?   If that person gets away with it for 3 years should it no longer be considered a crime?  What about illegal immigrants?  If they've managed to live here for 3 years would you grant them green cards?  What about the state of Tennessee's failure to process rape kits?  Doe that gov't incompetence turn those rapes into non-crimes?  Your support of Bundy is just as ridiculous.  You and I and our children are the victims of Bundy's welfare fraud.

Why don't you want him to pay up?


I wonder, if they had done this within three years of Bundy failing to pay the fines, would reub then be whining how mean and fast acting and unfair the federal government is?
 
2014-04-15 12:22:15 PM

This text is now purple: way south: One could say that it was an example of what happens when you don't leave people alone.
Of course we can't know what was really going through McVeigh's head, but revenge was among the theories. Abuses by the fed aren't soon forgotten or forgiven by some people.

McVeigh was pretty open that his motive was reprisal for Waco and Ruby Ridge.




Aye, that's what he said.
The question is if he would have not been a terrorist if the fed had not botched both situations. There's no way to prove he wouldn't have found some other grievance to base his attack on.
Violent farkwits never think they're in the wrong. They always find a justification.
 
2014-04-15 12:23:02 PM

Delay: Due to work I travel to Utah and Nevada quite often. There is a tremendous number of people that side with Bundy and his militia types. Why? He's not an underdog. Bundy is a wealthy man. Most ranchers are. Given the size of his herd that's over $1million every year in income. These folks really have given up on the idea that "government by the people" works.

They are large in number. They seem to be ready, "I'm ready to pull the trigger if fired upon," one of the anti-government activists said. This right-wing movement is not going away anytime soon. Legal arguments are not going to persuade them. Telling them that the government they despise is the representative government the founding fathers assembled does not persuade them. They believe the US is ruled by despots, elections are rigged and there are millions of deadbeats, usually dark skinned, who get a free ride on a permanent basis.

It makes zero sense unless you hear how adamant the US right wing has become.


abortionsforall.files.wordpress.com

And then it makes less than zero sense.
 
2014-04-15 12:24:08 PM

scotchlandia: The US government wont even follow the laws it passes on itself, so whats the point? Yes, eventually Bundy will die of old age... which will be much better than a shootout.


You don't think he's got children who will pick up the gauntlet? He routinely talks about the many generations his people have been using that land.

This doesn't end with him.
 
2014-04-15 12:24:20 PM

trappedspirit: IlGreven: Again, this can have a peaceful end (in which case he gets away with his transgression and emboldens many others to do similar), or it can end justly (in which case, however it gets there, the federal government will have to fire on him and his supporters, thus getting blood on their hands and making him a martyr, and emboldening many others to do similar).  It cannot have both.

ftfy


Actually, the simple way is to just kill the cows when they graze illegally. Send him a registered letter, post a few signs, and take an ad out in the local papers. Pretty cheap really. Then just let a couple choppers, tanks, and LAV's have some fun target practice if he tries to graze there again without ponying up the cash and getting the permits.

Unless he's got enough people to shield every single cow, he'll get the message quick. He can try suing the government for the value lost, and they can counter sue for back payments, penalties, fines for illegal grazing, and add in the cost of the crews / ammo to enforce the ban when they had to wipe out his herd.

Poetic in a way.
 
2014-04-15 12:25:02 PM

Mikey1969: They don't need this guy's goddamn "land", there are a billion better places in Nevada to build this plant, and the state is 81% federal land


No one is taking this guys land.  Are you sure you're in the right thread?  The reason I ask is that you seem to be talking about an entirely different series of events.

grumpfuff: dittybopper: TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED IT, EVEN CONSIDERING IT AS AN OPTION IS FARKING VILE, DISGUSTING, AND COWARDLY.


I'm sure that if one of dittybopper's neighbors came up and told them they had a written plan to rape his mother, had all the items already in a bag ready to go, but decided against it, I'm sure he'd be fine with it.
 
2014-04-15 12:25:28 PM

thaylin: You state the argument, then twist the argument. It is not up to the people to determine if they believe the action was legal or not, that is for the courts to decide, otherwise every single statement like this has an easy way out for everyone.


There is another problem:

The leader of this... "resistance movement" claims to acknowledge the legitimacy of Nevada's constitution. But that constitution expressly vests the power of dispute resolution with the United States Supreme Court, and by necessary implication, lower United States courts. Those courts have spoken here.

The simple fact is, neither Cliven Bundy nor his gang of thugs recognize any law whatsoever except their own. They're just sociopaths. Everyone who showed up with a gun to protect this "man" should be disarmed for life.

You hear that purple? Nevada's constitutional "paramount allegiance" clause means Bundy and his supporters can't even frame a good faith argument for the righteousness of their cause. They are lawless thug criminals. Nothing more.
 
2014-04-15 12:27:29 PM

lantawa: thaylin: neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.

No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.

Excuse me, but you've been the low IQ rep on this thread, offering nothing but gratuitous insults, and blatant denials of obvious pieces of evidence that have been put directly in front of you on your magic computer screen to contradict you.  Please show some citations and documented history that backs your position, and stop with the ad hominem insults.


I dont think you know what an ad hominem is. Since I did not attack him personally, but his statement, and used his own statement itself, if there was an ad hominem it would be him. As for sources and citations, I have already provided all of that through out the posts. Your decider to not read them in no way counters any of that. As for obvious peices of evidence I would also have to point you back to questioning our understanding of the words, since they are not "obvious evidence", but misrepresented data that has been dis-proven by both sides of the dispute.
 
2014-04-15 12:29:05 PM

JohnnyC: After seeing things like that dude with the rifle aimed at people from behind that cement embankment and the various other asshats threatening violence if they don't get their way.... The obvious conclusion I'm lead to there is that those people want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans.

Given that the government folks backed off a bit out of fear of safety for everyone involved, I can only conclude that they aren't interested in shooting their fellow Americans (or even seeing anyone get hurt).

So whether or not the "militia" folks were planning on using women as a shield or not... it doesn't seem very hard to figure out who the good folks are here.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.


Well said
 
2014-04-15 12:29:28 PM

ciberido: On the plus side, there have been several people for whom I hold more respect than than I did before this whole Bundy thing hit Fark. Mainly people whom I had marked down as right wing nutjobs who have demonstrated that, while their politics may differ greatly from mine, are not the complete idiots I had feared they were.


Unless, however, they're running the OTHER troll accounts and want to build up the cred of their OTHER troll accounts by not being TOTALLY insane.
 
2014-04-15 12:32:20 PM

LoioshASH: As I understand it ...


You don't.
 
2014-04-15 12:33:12 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Mikey1969: They don't need this guy's goddamn "land", there are a billion better places in Nevada to build this plant, and the state is 81% federal land

No one is taking this guys land.  Are you sure you're in the right thread?  The reason I ask is that you seem to be talking about an entirely different series of events.

grumpfuff: dittybopper: TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED IT, EVEN CONSIDERING IT AS AN OPTION IS FARKING VILE, DISGUSTING, AND COWARDLY.

I'm sure that if one of dittybopper's neighbors came up and told them they had a written plan to rape his mother, had all the items already in a bag ready to go, but decided against it, I'm sure he'd be fine with it.


I'm pointing out the 'OMG!! The feds totally want this guy's land!' nut jobs, hence, the part where I state "They don't need this guy's goddamn "land"" maybe you missed that part when you quoted it? Or maybe you've missed the nutballs who keep insisting that the government wanted "his" land for some farking solar project? That's OK, it's hard when you quote two sentences. One can get lost in the background.

The long and short of it is that they don't want "his" land, and they aren't moving the cattle because they want some offsite part of a solar project, since there is WAY too much desert between where the butte is, and where the proposed solar zone is.

But whatever...
 
2014-04-15 12:33:58 PM

Satanic_Hamster: I wonder, if they had done this within three years of Bundy failing to pay the fines, would reub then be whining how mean and fast acting and unfair the federal government is?


Help me understand why you "wonder" about that. I sure don't. : )

Hey, did I tell you how the Nevada constitution's paramount allegiance clause renders "in bad faith" any claim by Bundy and his thugs that they acted on any principle whatsoever other than self-entitled violence?


Yeah. Nevada's paramount allegiance clause expressly acknowledges the legitimacy of the federal government, the Supreme Court, and by necessary implication the lower federal courts. It also expressly condemns the actions of thugs like Cliven Bundy and his gangster mob. Thus, when they claim to recognize "state sovereignty," or the supremacy of Nevada law, we know they're lying.
 
2014-04-15 12:34:16 PM

Mikey1969: neversubmit: Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

That's a great link... Here's something that was buried pretty deeply(As in all around your quote):

Examples of Recent Incidents of Private Property Damage Caused by Bundy's Trespass Cattle
One feral cow was hit by an automobile within Lake Mead National Recreation Area.  Cattle are frequently seen on public roads, including State Route 170 and pose a danger to vehicles and to members of the public traveling on public roads.
Overton Wildlife Refuge (State of Nevada) employee attacked by a Bundy bull.
Crop destroyed by Bundy cattle on private land.
Mesquite Heritage Community Garden damaged by trespass cattle.
Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle.

Examples of Restoration Funding and Viability Impacted
A $400,000 matching grant to restore Southwest Willow Flycatcher habitat along the Virgin River from the Walton Family Foundation was withdrawn until the trespass cattle have been removed. 
A $160,000 Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act project to restore Southwestern Willow Flycatcher has been delayed until trespass cattle are removed.
Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
The Nevada State Department of Wildlife has built extensive fences to protect state and federal lands protected as the Overton Wildlife Refuge from the trespass cattle.

Examples of Public Concerns
Residents of the communities of Bunkerville and Mesquite have complained abou ...


But all that refutes the narrative that this is a Noble and Brave Pioneer. Why do you hate America so much?
 
2014-04-15 12:34:47 PM

inglixthemad: trappedspirit: IlGreven: Again, this can have a peaceful end (in which case he gets away with his transgression and emboldens many others to do similar), or it can end justly (in which case, however it gets there, the federal government will have to fire on him and his supporters, thus getting blood on their hands and making him a martyr, and emboldening many others to do similar).  It cannot have both.

ftfy

Actually, the simple way is to just kill the cows when they graze illegally. Send him a registered letter, post a few signs, and take an ad out in the local papers. Pretty cheap really. Then just let a couple choppers, tanks, and LAV's have some fun target practice if he tries to graze there again without ponying up the cash and getting the permits.

Unless he's got enough people to shield every single cow, he'll get the message quick. He can try suing the government for the value lost, and they can counter sue for back payments, penalties, fines for illegal grazing, and add in the cost of the crews / ammo to enforce the ban when they had to wipe out his herd.

Poetic in a way.


I like that. Good strategy
 
2014-04-15 12:36:00 PM

JohnnyC: After seeing things like that dude with the rifle aimed at people from behind that cement embankment and the various other asshats threatening violence if they don't get their way.... The obvious conclusion I'm lead to there is that those people want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans.

Given that the government folks backed off a bit out of fear of safety for everyone involved, I can only conclude that they aren't interested in shooting their fellow Americans (or even seeing anyone get hurt).

So whether or not the "militia" folks were planning on using women as a shield or not... it doesn't seem very hard to figure out who the good folks are here.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.


What's funny is that if you watch the "video that facebook doesn't want you to see", the militia types are making fun of the feds 'hiding behind their guns' when the conflict ends... Seriously, the guys who rushed in with their guns ready are making fun of the cops for carrying their guns.
 
2014-04-15 12:36:09 PM

Satanic_Hamster: ciberido: On the plus side, there have been several people for whom I hold more respect than than I did before this whole Bundy thing hit Fark. Mainly people whom I had marked down as right wing nutjobs who have demonstrated that, while their politics may differ greatly from mine, are not the complete idiots I had feared they were.

Unless, however, they're running the OTHER troll accounts and want to build up the cred of their OTHER troll accounts by not being TOTALLY insane.


Now you're just being paranoid.
 
2014-04-15 12:37:09 PM
Does this stupid farking situation qualify as armed insurrection against the US government yet? A sizable force of armed men are preventing the government from enforcing the law.

Put on a lien on this guy's land. If he doesn't pay, he loses the land. That's how it works. If he and/or his supporters shoot at the law enforcement personnel who come to enforce the law, or if they look like they might fire on law enforcement, are warned to put down their weapons, and fail to do so, the consequences are on their own heads. It's the same for any common criminal who goes for a gun when the police show up. Why should these people be any different?

It's kind of amazing how many conservative hypocrites, but I repeat myself, defend this dead beat and his asshole buddies who are ready to use deadly force to defend his "right" to theft. He justifiably owes over a million bucks to the government. Pay up or lose your land, asshole, just like the rest of us when we don't pay our bills.

dittybopper:
Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


You're comparing the OWS protest movement with an armed militia pointing their guns at federal agents who are simply trying to enforce the law against some asshole who owes the government $1.2 million? That's the stupidest farking thing I've seen in the thread. So far.

MythDragon:
But are there actualy any good news stations that don't feature the Obama fear of Fox or the Obama dick sucking fest of everyone else?

Since "everyone else" is only in the tank for Obama in your deranged little head, the answer is yes, there are other news outlets that are far better than Fox.
 
2014-04-15 12:40:06 PM

neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.


You used to be sane.  What happened?
 
2014-04-15 12:41:23 PM

JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.


And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.
 
2014-04-15 12:43:28 PM

notto: Nutsac_Jim:

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

Actually, that picture is from during the Bush years.


www.350z-tech.com
 
2014-04-15 12:45:30 PM

ciberido: notto: Nutsac_Jim:

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

Actually, that picture is from during the Bush years.

[www.350z-tech.com image 640x434]


That's a cute picture. But it does make me worry that ink got in the baby's eyes. : (
 
2014-04-15 12:45:40 PM

Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.


Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.
 
2014-04-15 12:45:58 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Republican has cows eating grass

[cdn.rt.com image 410x230]

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

[img.fark.net image 160x186]


Wanna bet that Bundy exploits a few of those illegals for cheap labor, or do you honestly believe Bundy is out there shoveling the shiat himself?
 
2014-04-15 12:46:17 PM

someonelse: But it feels true, dammit.


Cause usually the government doesn't get off it's ass to do anything unless someone in power is profiting off it.
 
2014-04-15 12:46:37 PM
these OccupyTheRanch protesters are something else. They are kind of like the Occupy Wallstreet people.

Both are violating laws, trespassing, causing property damage and standing up to authority.

I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Must be a cognitive dissonance thing.
 
2014-04-15 12:47:44 PM

hubiestubert: But all that refutes the narrative that this is a Noble and Brave Pioneer. Why do you hate America so much?


Because, America?

Oh, wait...
 
2014-04-15 12:47:50 PM

dittybopper: Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Except that there are differences in response-
1. One group is an NRA and gun loving crowd while the other were peaceful unarmed protesters
2. The unarmed group was beaten, pepper sprayed, maced, tased...
3. OWS was protesting things like inequality and the lack of reprisal on the Wall Street crooks, the other groups is defending a thief
4. The Thief defending groups is all white, while there were definitely brownish hued folks in OWS groups...

hmmm, important elements, yet while one group was beaten and otherwise abused while peacefully protesting in the manner allowed in the constitution, the other group was hardly advanced on in a similar manner, did not face nearly the physical abuse of the OWS protestors...   funny, one group actually had an honorable protest and were beaten and abused yet I would bet that everyone of the Bundy luvvin crowd hated the OWS protests, thought they all deserved every spray, every baton to the head and so on...  because...
 
2014-04-15 12:48:16 PM

lantawa: Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.

Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.


That's what a "2nd Amendment remedy" looks like; armed confrontation with the military and law enforcement. 2nd Amendment fetishists dream of killing police officers and United States soldiers.
 
2014-04-15 12:49:21 PM

Fissile: Nutsac_Jim: Republican has cows eating grass

[cdn.rt.com image 410x230]

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

[img.fark.net image 160x186]

Wanna bet that Bundy exploits a few of those illegals for cheap labor, or do you honestly believe Bundy is out there shoveling the shiat himself?


Actually, I don't think there's much shiat to shovel - it appears most of it ends up on the federal lands...
 
2014-04-15 12:49:49 PM

rev. dave: Typical terrorist tactics.   Use human shields.   But snipers are able to deal with that.  They are lucky they all still have heads today.


The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.


On another note, where did this idea that they were using women as human shields come from? Is it not possible that the women involved are there for the same reason as the men? Or is this just an additional stereotype pulled out for this discussion?

What we should all be worried about is the point in time where A: "free speech zones" were erected, and B: when the government doesn't want you to see what it's about to do to its citizens. This is regardless of how you feel about the participants.
 
2014-04-15 12:50:21 PM
Bunny ranch militia:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-15 12:51:37 PM
inglixthemad:
Actually, the simple way is to just kill the cows when they graze illegally. Send him a registered letter, post a few signs, and take an ad out in the local papers. Pretty cheap really. Then just let a couple choppers, tanks, and LAV's have some fun target practice if he tries to graze there again without ponying up the cash and getting the permits.

Unless he's got enough people to shield every single cow, he'll get the message quick. He can try suing the government for the value lost, and they can counter sue for back payments, penalties, fines for illegal grazing, and add in the cost of the crews / ammo to enforce the ban when they had to wipe out his herd.


It might work, but the cows don't deserve to die that way just because their owner is a treasonous assclown.
 
2014-04-15 12:52:28 PM

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Yeah, because this is exactly like OWS. Seriously, one of your 'scripts may have turned. Check the date...

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 12:56:14 PM

Baz744: lantawa: Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.

Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.

That's what a "2nd Amendment remedy" looks like; armed confrontation with the military and law enforcement. 2nd Amendment fetishists dream of killing police officers and United States soldiers.


I think you mean "unthinking lackeys to the Socialists that run the nation like Third World Despots" and "jackbooted thugs and fascists." It's easy to get "brave soldiers and police" mixed up with those, depending on what side of the line you're on. They're brave and noble when they're pulling folks out of rubble, but when they pull guns on "hardworking entrepreneurs" they quickly make the leap that all our police are stormtroopers.

It's an easy mistake. Support the troops and support the police, up until you get pulled over or ticketed, or the Sheriff's Department serves you with a summons. In theory they love our boys in blue and our soldiers, up until the bills start coming due...
 
2014-04-15 12:56:55 PM

Mr. Breeze: The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.


Vickie Weaver would probably disagree with you a bit on that point.
 
2014-04-15 12:57:38 PM

ourbigdumbmouth: these OccupyTheRanch protesters are something else. They are kind of like the Occupy Wallstreet people.

Both are violating laws, trespassing, causing property damage and standing up to authority.

I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Must be a cognitive dissonance thing.


I missed the part where the Occupy movement armed themselves and threatened to shoot federal officers doing their job.
 
2014-04-15 12:58:01 PM

way south: This text is now purple: way south: One could say that it was an example of what happens when you don't leave people alone.
Of course we can't know what was really going through McVeigh's head, but revenge was among the theories. Abuses by the fed aren't soon forgotten or forgiven by some people.

McVeigh was pretty open that his motive was reprisal for Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Aye, that's what he said.
The question is if he would have not been a terrorist if the fed had not botched both situations. There's no way to prove he wouldn't have found some other grievance to base his attack on.
Violent farkwits never think they're in the wrong. They always find a justification.


He had no connection to the Branch Davidians and no connection to Randy Weaver. Because of that, it is probably a safe bet that he would have found some other equally disturbing action to justify the batshiat insane "response" he had, even if those federal actions were simple and every day things.

Crazy people do crazy shiat. They don't need a George Bush or Bill Clinton, they'll use whomever they want as an excuse.
 
2014-04-15 12:58:39 PM

HeadLever: Mr. Breeze: The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.

Vickie Weaver would probably disagree with you a bit on that point.


She's been dead for 20 years, so I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have an opinion on the subject.
 
2014-04-15 12:58:44 PM

Mr. Breeze: rev. dave: Typical terrorist tactics.   Use human shields.   But snipers are able to deal with that.  They are lucky they all still have heads today.

The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.


On another note, where did this idea that they were using women as human shields come from? Is it not possible that the women involved are there for the same reason as the men? Or is this just an additional stereotype pulled out for this discussion?

What we should all be worried about is the point in time where A: "free speech zones" were erected, and B: when the government doesn't want you to see what it's about to do to its citizens. This is regardless of how you feel about the participants.


RTFA for a change.

The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack, identified as a former Arizona sheriff who had joined more than 1,000 other protesters alongside Cliven Bundy, who has been feuding with BLM over his use of federal land to graze his cattle.

"We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front," Mack said in a Fox News clip pulled by The Blaze. "If they are going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."
 
2014-04-15 12:59:17 PM

Pangea: meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.

He doesn't own nearly enough land to support the cattle. If they don't stay on the federal land they'll starve to death.

The cattle are in a continuous state of trespass.



He doesn't even know how many cattle he owns. Bundy first claimed he owned "only" 500 head of cattle, then said he hadn't gotten around to branding all of them and there may be as many as 900 out there. Personally I wouldn't mind if BLM started shooting any cattle they found in the area designated as endangered habitat; Bundy has a history of destroying water sources, polluting streams and building illegal reservoirs, all mentioned in BLM's complaint to the court over his actions.
 
2014-04-15 01:00:52 PM

dr_blasto: He had no connection to the Branch Davidians and no connection to Randy Weaver. Because of that, it is probably a safe bet that he would have found some other equally disturbing action to justify the batshiat insane "response" he had, even if those federal actions were simple and every day things.

Crazy people do crazy shiat.


Yeah, McVeigh gives me just a bit of a sense of Brotherhood with Mr. Kaczynski, even if their pet peeves were a bit different.
 
2014-04-15 01:02:11 PM

grumpfuff: She's been dead for 20 years, so I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have an opinion on the subject.


Maybe that is the entire point of the argument.
 
2014-04-15 01:02:49 PM

Baz744: lantawa: Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.

Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.

That's what a "2nd Amendment remedy" looks like; armed confrontation with the military and law enforcement. 2nd Amendment fetishists dream of killing police officers and United States soldiers.


No, that's your nightmare fantasy of what such remedy may look like.  I'm sorry that you're so afraid of the scary white men.  Look to love and unity, tradition and honor, peace and harmony, self-sufficiency (or the best efforts towards it) and dignity, honesty and trustworthiness; all of these, as the preferred "remedy" that these people and other healthy-minded people think of as being the correct paths to follow, and be extended, in life. Force, for them should always be, and is, a last resort.
 
2014-04-15 01:04:11 PM

Mr. Breeze: hat we should all be worried about is the point in time where A: "free speech zones" were erected, and B: when the government doesn't want you to see what it's about to do to its citizens.


Sorry to rain on your anti-America propaganda, but "free speech zones" are erected to protect First Amendment rights in situations where the potential for violence calls for heavy law enforcement to preserve order.

In a United States presidential debate, for example, the sitting US president and his challenger appear in the same location at the same time, often with other assorted bigwhigs in the general area. By necessity, the attractiveness of this target to America's enemies--foreign and domestic--calls for intense security. Multiply that by the intense feelings and large crowds these events tend to engender, and you get a "spark in the tinderbox" situation, with a serious potential of a lot of people getting hurt.

Despite the sinister connotations both those on the left and more recently (out of convenience) those on the right give to the term, the simple reality is that free speech zones enable safe and orderly speech activities to take place in environments where the government has a sufficiently compelling interest in security and order to arguably justify temporarily and in a limited area suppressing speech altogether.

You can conclusively demonstrate your stupidity or dishonesty by arguing that a situation where persons are showing up with guns to resist the lawful execution of federal prerogatives holds no potential for violence.

Or you can acknowledge that reality, and then ask yourself why federal authorities, who for perfectly legitimate reasons (physical protection of themselves and civilians) need to preserve an orderly environment, might want to designate an area where those who arrive to engage in legitimate (if misguided) 1st Amendment activities can do so safely, without any risk of being confused for one of the domestic terrorists roaming the hills, abusing K-9 units, and pointing sniper rifles at LEOs.
 
2014-04-15 01:04:28 PM
Oh, and for those still foggy on who possibly said this, here. the video where the guy makes the statement.

For those with short attention spans that couldn't read the quote that was actually in TFA, skip ahead to about 8 seconds in. He's right there on camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZd61_9hofE
 
2014-04-15 01:05:17 PM

Bendal: He doesn't even know how many cattle he owns. Bundy first claimed he owned "only" 500 head of cattle, then said he hadn't gotten around to branding all of them and there may be as many as 900 out there.


That is probably because he is calving.  He probably doesn't have an accurate account of what has calved and what hasn't.

With a herd of 500 cows, you can expect probably 900 to 950 individual cattle by the end of the calving season.
 
2014-04-15 01:05:37 PM

HeadLever: Mr. Breeze: The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.

Vickie Weaver would probably disagree with you a bit on that point.


She was obviously threatening the sniper by brandishing that baby.
 
2014-04-15 01:06:23 PM

grumpfuff: ourbigdumbmouth: these OccupyTheRanch protesters are something else. They are kind of like the Occupy Wallstreet people.

Both are violating laws, trespassing, causing property damage and standing up to authority.

I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Must be a cognitive dissonance thing.

I missed the part where the Occupy movement armed themselves and threatened to shoot federal officers doing their job.


I missed that too. I did see police forces start firing weapons, though. Maybe the OWS people in Oakland had invisible guns.
 
2014-04-15 01:06:53 PM

HeadLever: grumpfuff: She's been dead for 20 years, so I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have an opinion on the subject.

Maybe that is the entire point of the argument.


Maybe I don't really buy appeals to emotion based on what happened 20 years ago. That whole clusterfark was..well, a clusterfark. It wasn't a "Feds ran in and shot first un-provoked"
 
2014-04-15 01:09:01 PM

lantawa: No, that's your nightmare fantasy of what such remedy may look like. I'm sorry that you're so afraid of the scary white men. Look to love and unity, tradition and honor, peace and harmony, self-sufficiency (or the best efforts towards it) and dignity, honesty and trustworthiness; all of these, as the preferred "remedy" that these people and other healthy-minded people think of as being the correct paths to follow, and be extended, in life. Force, for them should always be, and is, a last resort.


This isn't Colorado, pal. It's the internets. Take your opium-induced reverie back to Canada where it belongs.
 
2014-04-15 01:10:21 PM

Mikey1969: Oh, and for those still foggy on who possibly said this, here. the video where the guy makes the statement.

For those with short attention spans that couldn't read the quote that was actually in TFA, skip ahead to about 8 seconds in. He's right there on camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZd61_9hofE


The outright denial of the basic facts as supplied by the nutters themselves is really amusing to me. I don't know why, either. Usually it is just annoying this far in.
 
2014-04-15 01:11:05 PM

ThighsofGlory: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.

You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.


Seems to me they're trying their best not to be citizens. They've willfully broken the law, they're threatening federal agents with sniper rifles, they claim they don't recognize the government, they don't know how the legal system work. These aren't people that can be reasoned with, the only thing you can do is make an example out of them. Letting them have their way only emboldens them.
 
2014-04-15 01:12:41 PM

grumpfuff: It wasn't a "Feds ran in and shot first un-provoked"


You are right,  they didn't run anywhere.  They shot her from a hidden sniper position from several hundred yards away without any warning, let alone any provocation.

After they knew that they killed here they then taunted the family with "Did you sleep well last night, Vicki?" and "Show us the baby, Vicki? We had pancakes," over the loudspeakers.

Very classy as you can plainly  see.....
 
2014-04-15 01:13:00 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Seems to me they're trying their best not to be citizens. They've willfully broken the law, they're threatening federal agents with sniper rifles, they claim they don't recognize the government, they don't know how the legal system work. These aren't people that can be reasoned with, the only thing you can do is make an example out of them. Letting them have their way only emboldens them.


Problem is we can't do much without getting innocent people shot/killed.  When I say innocent I mean the Federal agents and LEOs.
 
2014-04-15 01:13:02 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: ThighsofGlory: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.

You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.

Seems to me they're trying their best not to be citizens. They've willfully broken the law, they're threatening federal agents with sniper rifles, they claim they don't recognize the government, they don't know how the legal system work. These aren't people that can be reasoned with, the only thing you can do is make an example out of them. Letting them have their way only emboldens them.


Dropping a few bombs on them turns them into martyrs.
 
2014-04-15 01:13:54 PM

Baz744: lantawa: No, that's your nightmare fantasy of what such remedy may look like. I'm sorry that you're so afraid of the scary white men. Look to love and unity, tradition and honor, peace and harmony, self-sufficiency (or the best efforts towards it) and dignity, honesty and trustworthiness; all of these, as the preferred "remedy" that these people and other healthy-minded people think of as being the correct paths to follow, and be extended, in life. Force, for them should always be, and is, a last resort.

This isn't Colorado, pal. It's the internets. Take your opium-induced reverie back to Canada where it belongs.


Ahhhhh....more authentic eastside urban gibberish.  It's delightful! Are you from a newly discovered sub-tribe, or just one of the long standing Colt 45 malt liquor clans?
 
2014-04-15 01:14:24 PM

lantawa: Baz744: lantawa: Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.

Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.

That's what a "2nd Amendment remedy" looks like; armed confrontation with the military and law enforcement. 2nd Amendment fetishists dream of killing police officers and United States soldiers.

No, that's your nightmare fantasy of what such remedy may look like.  I'm sorry that you're so afraid of the scary white men.  Look to love and unity, tradition and honor, peace and harmony, self-sufficiency (or the best efforts towards it) and dignity, honesty and trustworthiness; all of these, as the preferred "remedy" that these people and other healthy-minded people think of as being the correct paths to follow, and be extended, in life. Force, for them should always be, and is, a last resort.


I'm not seeing any of "these people" (meaning stupid rancher or his new militia friends) showing any peace, harmony, self-sufficiency, dignity or honesty.

I will give the crazy militia nutters loyalty, but certainly not healthy-minded or trustworthy attributes.
 
2014-04-15 01:20:10 PM

HeadLever: grumpfuff: It wasn't a "Feds ran in and shot first un-provoked"

You are right,  they didn't run anywhere.  They shot her from a hidden sniper position from several hundred yards away without any warning, let alone any provocation.

After they knew that they killed here they then taunted the family with "Did you sleep well last night, Vicki?" and "Show us the baby, Vicki? We had pancakes," over the loudspeakers.

Very classy as you can plainly  see.....


Yea, there totally wasn't already one gunfight where a fed was killed already. Also, from what I recall, the shot that killed Vicki had actually been fired at someone else, and hit him first before hitting Vicki.

Trying to act like Vicki was blameless is also silly, as she had fired shots at the feds as well.

As to the loudspeaker bit, the only place I've ever heard that is conspiracy sites.
 
2014-04-15 01:23:24 PM

way south: The question is if he would have not been a terrorist if the fed had not botched both situations. There's no way to prove he wouldn't have found some other grievance to base his attack on.


There's no way to prove he wasn't a vessel of Gozer, either, so long as we're restricting ourselves to unfalsifiable hypotheticals.
 
2014-04-15 01:24:43 PM

grumpfuff: Yea, there totally wasn't already one gunfight where a fed was killed already.


So are you actually supporting the rules of engagement used at Ruby Ridge by the snipers here?  Serious question.
 
2014-04-15 01:25:04 PM

grumpfuff: Prank Call of Cthulhu: ThighsofGlory: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.

You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.

Seems to me they're trying their best not to be citizens. They've willfully broken the law, they're threatening federal agents with sniper rifles, they claim they don't recognize the government, they don't know how the legal system work. These aren't people that can be reasoned with, the only thing you can do is make an example out of them. Letting them have their way only emboldens them.

Dropping a few bombs on them turns them into martyrs.


So what? Ooooh, martyrs, booga-booga. I don't think letting the spoiled little children have their way is a workable solution.
 
2014-04-15 01:27:11 PM

grumpfuff: Trying to act like Vicki was blameless is also silly, as she had fired shots at the feds as well.


[citation needed]
 
2014-04-15 01:28:48 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: So what? Ooooh, martyrs, booga-booga. I don't think letting the spoiled little children have their way is a workable solution.


so they need to be killed?
 
2014-04-15 01:29:23 PM

HeadLever: grumpfuff: Yea, there totally wasn't already one gunfight where a fed was killed already.

So are you actually supporting the rules of engagement used at Ruby Ridge by the snipers here?  Serious question.


It wasn't the snipers call for the first shot.  They don't make the ROE they follow them.  The 2nd shot shouldn't have been taken since he couldn't verify that someone was on the other side of the door so it was his mistake but the ROE doesn't fall on the snipers shoulders they follow what they are told.
 
2014-04-15 01:30:40 PM

HeadLever: Prank Call of Cthulhu: So what? Ooooh, martyrs, booga-booga. I don't think letting the spoiled little children have their way is a workable solution.

so they need to be killed?


If they will not come in peacefully sure, what is the other option?
 
2014-04-15 01:32:12 PM

TNel: It wasn't the snipers call for the first shot.  They don't make the ROE they follow them.  The 2nd shot shouldn't have been taken since he couldn't verify that someone was on the other side of the door so it was his mistake but the ROE doesn't fall on the snipers shoulders they follow what they are told.


We are talking about the 'generalized' government here.  Not just the snipers.  They are only one cog in this massive screwup regarding the ROE.
 
2014-04-15 01:33:28 PM

Baz744: Sorry to rain on your anti-America propaganda, but "free speech zones" are erected to protect First Amendment rights in situations where the potential for violence calls for heavy law enforcement to preserve order.


Also to protect people from themselves.

There were hundreds of heavy large animals being herded by dozens of large pieces of metal powered by diesel engines.

They wanted to avoid running over/trampling any of these idiots.
 
2014-04-15 01:34:05 PM

HeadLever: grumpfuff: Yea, there totally wasn't already one gunfight where a fed was killed already.

So are you actually supporting the rules of engagement used at Ruby Ridge by the snipers here?  Serious question.


No. The entire situation was a clusterfark. Responsibility is shared by both sides. I'm just tired of the "Vicki was an innocent bystander intentionally gunned down" narrative.
 
2014-04-15 01:34:26 PM