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(Talking Points Memo)   Bundy Ranch 'militia' had strict women-first policy...in case of firefights with federal agency officers   ( talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Ted Bundy, Bundy Ranch, police officers, firefighters, foreign exchange reserves  
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12593 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2014 at 7:05 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



673 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2014-04-15 06:39:58 AM  
It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.
 
2014-04-15 06:50:33 AM  
The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?
 
2014-04-15 07:00:43 AM  
I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".
 
2014-04-15 07:08:25 AM  

fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?


The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.
 
Skr
2014-04-15 07:08:29 AM  
but did anyone think of the children?
 
2014-04-15 07:09:06 AM  
the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

c2.staticflickr.com
 
2014-04-15 07:09:50 AM  
You know if you ignore these people, they go away.
 
2014-04-15 07:10:50 AM  
The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.
 
2014-04-15 07:11:34 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.


Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.
 
2014-04-15 07:12:10 AM  
doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

The will of the American people is what has turned out to be weak.

It's pretty sad.
 
2014-04-15 07:16:59 AM  
police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.
 

does not compute.
 
2014-04-15 07:17:54 AM  

abhorrent1: the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

[c2.staticflickr.com image 250x272]


If you know who the media is biased against, you can usualy do a decent job of filtering out derp from articles. That's how I can watch Fox News without thinking Obongo is gonna personaly come to my house to take my guns and go to the old folk's home to shoot my grandmother.

But are there actualy any good news stations that don't feature the Obama fear of Fox or the Obama dick sucking fest of everyone else?
 
2014-04-15 07:18:28 AM  

fusillade762: So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.comcdn2.hellogiggles.com

/You decide.
 
2014-04-15 07:18:41 AM  
I call bullshiat.
 
2014-04-15 07:19:50 AM  
Militia propaganda. They learned from the best.
 
2014-04-15 07:20:52 AM  

abhorrent1: the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

[c2.staticflickr.com image 250x272]


I know that's supposed to make people think you are smart, but it actually does the opposite.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Fine_Art_of_Baloney_Detection

At a bare minimum, that's an ad hominem (you're saying the source bad, therefore the information *MUST* be bad), but you also aren't encouraging open debate, you're trying to dismiss it.

That sort of thing leads to intellectual incest.  No matter what you may think of the source, you have to consider that in any one individual case, that source may in fact be correct.

i1.ytimg.com

A simple record won't turn you into the King of England, Number One.
 
2014-04-15 07:21:07 AM  

OregonVet: I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".


I keep seeing "Bunny Ranch."
 
2014-04-15 07:21:18 AM  
Typical gun owners.
 
2014-04-15 07:21:26 AM  

The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".


Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?
 
2014-04-15 07:21:30 AM  
They failed to study their history. Specifically the callous disregard for women and children in particular. Remember Ruby Ridge and Waco.
 
2014-04-15 07:22:36 AM  

Deep Contact: Militia propaganda. They learned from the best.


They learned it from *YOU*, Dad.  They learned it from you.
 
2014-04-15 07:22:46 AM  

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


Except when they don't
i676.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-15 07:23:25 AM  
Something something enemies foreign and domestic....*head scratch*  Blow the farker up.  Not ideal for a tax dodge, granted, but effective nonetheless.  The guy did not "win".  The US government isn't run by me and decided not to kill anyone.  That's not a loss.

Better idea, I guess, take all of the guy's herd, all of the property he does own in name and kick his ass out on the street.  Let him be a citizen independent of government support and trappings.
 
2014-04-15 07:24:50 AM  
After seeing things like that dude with the rifle aimed at people from behind that cement embankment and the various other asshats threatening violence if they don't get their way.... The obvious conclusion I'm lead to there is that those people want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans.

Given that the government folks backed off a bit out of fear of safety for everyone involved, I can only conclude that they aren't interested in shooting their fellow Americans (or even seeing anyone get hurt).

So whether or not the "militia" folks were planning on using women as a shield or not... it doesn't seem very hard to figure out who the good folks are here.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.
 
2014-04-15 07:25:23 AM  

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.
 
2014-04-15 07:27:01 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?


A lot, actually.

Don't mistake period specific advice for general advice that always applies.
 
2014-04-15 07:28:56 AM  
Man, if these guys lost Glenn Beck who do they have left?
 
2014-04-15 07:29:24 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.


I don't think they even really care about him. I think they're just looking for a fight and this was the best opportunity for one that they could find. They just wanted the authorities to shoot first so they could satisfy their itchy trigger fingers and claim that they didn't start it.
 
2014-04-15 07:30:50 AM  

CRtwenty: Man, if these guys lost Glenn Beck who do they have left?


AR-15 manufacturers and army surplus supply stores?
 
2014-04-15 07:30:51 AM  
BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.
 
2014-04-15 07:32:02 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.


THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?
 
2014-04-15 07:32:26 AM  
Not trying to defend the Bundy ranch crowd, but a questionable quote from one guy there about a strategy some of them were supposedly considering does not make it a "strict policy".
 
2014-04-15 07:34:13 AM  
fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net
 
2014-04-15 07:34:40 AM  

dittybopper: That sort of thing leads to intellectual incest.


Is that like cybersex with your sister?
 
2014-04-15 07:34:50 AM  

dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.


To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.
 
2014-04-15 07:34:53 AM  
Refusing to shoot women on the front lines would be sexist.
 
2014-04-15 07:34:58 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-15 07:35:45 AM  
What the hell does a brothel need a militia for?
 
2014-04-15 07:38:11 AM  

jntaylor63: What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


All is forgiven if you claim to support the GOP. You're only on the shiat list if you don't vote Republican.
 
2014-04-15 07:40:18 AM  

jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


He's white
 
2014-04-15 07:40:23 AM  
If this is true, this makes the Bundy people no better than Al Quida (or however the hell that bunch spells their organization's name.)
 
2014-04-15 07:43:07 AM  

JohnnyC: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

I don't think they even really care about him. I think they're just looking for a fight and this was the best opportunity for one that they could find. They just wanted the authorities to shoot first so they could satisfy their itchy trigger fingers and claim that they didn't start it.


The funny thing is that I don't think most of them realize that you're not allowed to get into a gun battle with the government. No matter how patriotic you think you're being. The instances where it's not illegal to shoot a cop are pretty narrow and I don't think "because 'Murica" and "Muslim Socialist President" and "Muh Freedoms!" are going to fly in court when you're looking at multiple counts of murder and attempted murder.
 
2014-04-15 07:43:32 AM  

namegoeshere: OregonVet: I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".

I keep seeing "Bunny Ranch."


Jefferson: You're a Bundy and if you put a D where the N is, you're a buddy. 
Al: And if you put an N where the D is, I'm a bunny. What's your point?
 
2014-04-15 07:45:01 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.


Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".
 
2014-04-15 07:45:27 AM  

jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?
 
2014-04-15 07:46:08 AM  
I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,
 
2014-04-15 07:47:41 AM  

Spandau: What the hell does a brothel need a militia for?


Defend themselves from the jack booted thugs the government sends totrample upon our basic liberties.
 
2014-04-15 07:47:43 AM  
Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.
 
2014-04-15 07:47:45 AM  

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


I don't recall anyone in OWS being armed and threatening to shoot federal employees while hiding behind women. You're a farking lunatic.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-04-15 07:48:10 AM  
dittybopper:

I know that's supposed to make people think you are smart, but it actually does the opposite.

Except with people who are familiar with Glen Beck.
 
2014-04-15 07:48:16 AM  

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Were they heavily armed and eager for a gun battle with law enforcement? Did they set up sniper positions? Brandish arms? *really*?

/Seriously, you really feel sympathy for these assholes, dont' you? You're even trying to conflate them as 'the same' as OWS, because Reasons.
 
2014-04-15 07:48:23 AM  

untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceive


You don't see a difference between a fighter and a human shield? Interesting.
 
2014-04-15 07:49:03 AM  

Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?


That's you're defense of this farking clown?
 
2014-04-15 07:49:38 AM  
It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-04-15 07:49:49 AM  
dittybopper:

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Yes, having women and children protest is exactly the same as using women and children as human shields in a shootout.
 
2014-04-15 07:49:53 AM  

Spanky McStupid: If this is true, this makes the Bundy people no better than Al Quida (or however the hell that bunch spells their organization's name.)


Al Queso?
 
2014-04-15 07:50:01 AM  

vpb: dittybopper:

I know that's supposed to make people think you are smart, but it actually does the opposite.

Except with people who are familiar with Glen Beck.


Well, there you go again.
 
2014-04-15 07:50:48 AM  
untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.

You don't see a difference between a fighter and a human shield? Interesting.

/this time, without the cat laying on the keyboard.
 
2014-04-15 07:50:57 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.


Oh christ this lie again?

No.
A) The Chinese group pulled out. IN 2013

B) The proposed site was *TWO HUNDRED MILES AWAY*

C) The issue with Bundy HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR TWO DECADES.

People are playing you for a fool, and you're falling into their hands.
 
2014-04-15 07:51:30 AM  

Brick-House: It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout


Southern border keeping the flood of people and drugs at bay
 
2014-04-15 07:51:56 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?


War hasn't actually changed at all in the fundamentals. Be it ants, chimps, or humans in any epoch, the fundamentals remain the same. That's why Starcraft, the US military, and the Mongols all use the Zerg Rush.
 
2014-04-15 07:52:04 AM  

Ivandrago: JohnnyC: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

I don't think they even really care about him. I think they're just looking for a fight and this was the best opportunity for one that they could find. They just wanted the authorities to shoot first so they could satisfy their itchy trigger fingers and claim that they didn't start it.

The funny thing is that I don't think most of them realize that you're not allowed to get into a gun battle with the government. No matter how patriotic you think you're being. The instances where it's not illegal to shoot a cop are pretty narrow and I don't think "because 'Murica" and "Muslim Socialist President" and "Muh Freedoms!" are going to fly in court when you're looking at multiple counts of murder and attempted murder.


Most of those kinds of folks "don't recognize the court" (including this Bundy guy). Sovereign citizens... gold fringe flag conspiracies about "admiralty courts"... and all that other nonsense. We're talking about people who aren't really operating in the same plane of reality that the rest of us are. They're not thinking about court... they're thinking that if they can get the fed to start the firefight that somehow it'll end with them burning the White House to the ground and forming some new government under their rule.
 
2014-04-15 07:52:42 AM  

jntaylor63: What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting. This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.


That right there would be why he's a hero to the right, as they seem to think all taxes are theft.

TuteTibiImperes: The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them. It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.


Ironically, using women and children as shields was something MOVE did here in Philadelphia and Jim Jones did in Guyana.  Also, the Branch Davidians at Waco, but I'm betting money it's a technique developed on the political Left.
 
2014-04-15 07:52:50 AM  

Brick-House: Brick-House: It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout

Southern border keeping the flood of people and drugs at bay


Are you blind or something?
 
2014-04-15 07:53:10 AM  

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


I don't to many people from OWS sitting behind concrete walls and drawing a bead on Federal Agents. Even with a rather extensive exposure to right wing radio and groups, the worst that was ever recorded was someone taking a dump on a cop car.* 

*There is also the whole "stop raping people" thing, but I haven't seen an evidence to support the allegation.
 
2014-04-15 07:53:37 AM  

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


The Afghans WANT the Taliban? You're farking crazy dude. They HATE the Taliban. In fact, public opinion in Afghanistan of the insurgents is so low that even blowing up a mosque to kill dozens of worshiping people inside does nothing. It literally can't sink any lower. That's why they can use bizarre tactics.
 
2014-04-15 07:54:30 AM  
America is finally seeing how the obama administration treats citizens. 12 million illegal immigrants in the country, no problem. A rancher letting his cows eat some grass and It's time to send in the troops. It's disgusting how quickly barry will send storm troopers and snipers to harass and threaten American Citizens.
Why do democrats hate hard working Americans so much?
 
2014-04-15 07:54:50 AM  
Maaaaarciaaaaaaaaa!
 
2014-04-15 07:54:50 AM  

Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,


And if he wore hot pants on Tuesdays we'd all be dying our hair purple.  Your point?
 
2014-04-15 07:55:18 AM  

MythDragon: That's how I can watch Fox News without thinking Obongo Cuomo is gonna personaly come to my house to take my guns


Happy Tax/Gun Confiscation Day!

Oh, a Bundy thread.

1. Federal government land
2. Non-payment of fees
3. ??
4. Profit!
 
2014-04-15 07:55:34 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

Except when they don't
[i676.photobucket.com image 465x363]




One could say that it was an example of what happens when you don't leave people alone.
Of course we can't know what was really going through McVeigh's head, but revenge was among the theories. Abuses by the fed aren't soon forgotten or forgiven by some people.

The pursuit of a legalistic solution can sometimes have terrible repercussions. Harry Reid may want to force everyone to their knees, but the direct method for doing so is likely to haunt us for decades.
Knowing this, the way out isn't by force. Blm needs to put its guns and body armor back in the locker and look for more negotiable alternatives for sharing the land. Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.

/and we need to ask why land managers are walking around like paramilitary thugs.
/seriously, once you're sending paper pushers to the scene with more than a clipboard you should know the plan is faulty.
 
2014-04-15 07:56:24 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.


The blog you copied and pasted this from sucks.  Was it yours?
 
2014-04-15 07:56:35 AM  
A tactic employed the world over.  No one cares if hardened soldiers are killed, but at least some will if women and/or children are.  Anytime there was a drone strike in Afghanistan, the U.S. would say they hit the target and the insurgents would say we hit a children's hospital or something like that.
 
2014-04-15 07:57:37 AM  

way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.


It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?
 
2014-04-15 07:57:38 AM  

Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,


nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want
 
2014-04-15 07:58:38 AM  

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


You don't deserve an empire if you aren't willing to create a fresh heap of skulls, America. That includes domestic skulls.

It baffles me that this criminal is some kind of folk hero. "Little guy", my left one.
 
2014-04-15 07:58:48 AM  
I wonder what these people think GWB would have done if he were in charge.
 
2014-04-15 07:59:00 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]
img.fark.net


Of course. When someone gets a freebie for twenty years, they become dependent on it, and see it as an entitlement.
 
2014-04-15 07:59:06 AM  

doglover: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?

War hasn't actually changed at all in the fundamentals. Be it ants, chimps, or humans in any epoch, the fundamentals remain the same. That's why Starcraft, the US military, and the Mongols all use the Zerg Rush.


My (off topic) point is that I'm tired of people breaking out Sun Tzu quotes. About half of what he said is pretty reasonable, but patently obvious stuff ("Move by stealth! Disguise your intentions! Occupy the high ground!") and the other half is just random crap like how many ox carts equal one archer or whatever. Whenever I see a Sun Tzu quote, or someone pulling out the tired Clausewitz "war is the continuation of politics by other means," I've got a very strong "stopped reading there" inclination.
 
2014-04-15 07:59:14 AM  

OregonVet: I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".


March, march, march?
 
2014-04-15 07:59:44 AM  

Launch Code: .
Why do democrats hate hard working Americans so much?


Hard working Americans pay their grazing fees.
 
2014-04-15 07:59:51 AM  
JohnnyC:  Most of those kinds of folks "don't recognize the court" (including this Bundy guy). Sovereign citizens... gold fringe flag conspiracies about "admiralty courts"... and all that other nonsense. We're talking about people who aren't really operating in the same plane of reality that the rest of us are. They're not thinking about court... they're thinking that if they can get the fed to start the firefight that somehow it'll end with them burning the White House to the ground and forming some new government under their rule.

That's what I think is awesome about this whole thing. Bundy doesn't recognize the authority of the BLM and his supports don't recognize the authority of the federal government. But the federal government doesn't care whether or not you "recognize" their authority. They're going to subject you to it anyway. You can biatch and moan and cry and stamp your feet all you want while you're sitting in a federal court in leg irons waiting for you sentence. P. Barnes doesn't care if you don't think your subject to the laws of the federal government and his taser certainly doesn't, as well. Better yet, ask Tim McVeigh how well trying to start a war worked out for him.
 
d23 [BareFark]
2014-04-15 08:00:21 AM  
What wonderful heroes the conservative movement has these days.

A loser who wants to use women for human shields because he wants to have a standoff over the fact that he wants to steal from the government.

Freedom!
 
d23 [BareFark]
2014-04-15 08:00:57 AM  

MrBallou: I wonder what these people think GWB would have done if he were in charge.


He'd be confused.  There's no corporate position on something like this.
 
2014-04-15 08:01:35 AM  

MrBallou: I wonder what these people think GWB would have done if he were in charge.


fark-all, apparently, if this mess has been going on for 20 years.
 
2014-04-15 08:03:41 AM  

MrBallou: I wonder what these people think GWB would have done if he were in charge.


Said "Mission Accomplished" on the deck of a carrier, and then knocked off a portrait of Putin before a nice nap.
 
2014-04-15 08:04:11 AM  
Reid the rules.  That's all you need to know or do, tax slaves.
 
2014-04-15 08:04:27 AM  
I want to say this is what got people to remove the american royalty and start over
but it won't
just a little group of people who work with their hands,
discredited by the information machine that feeds us.
and they'll lose
 
2014-04-15 08:04:36 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.


Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?
 
2014-04-15 08:04:52 AM  

fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?


I imagine more than a few of the girls were stolen
 
2014-04-15 08:05:47 AM  

vpb: dittybopper:

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".

Yes, having women and children protest is exactly the same as using women and children as human shields in a shootout.


What's the difference, really?  It's the other side that *ALWAYS* has guns.  But because they're *GOVERNMENT* guns, they're always good, right?  Because the police would *NEVER* shoot unarmed people.

www.trbimg.com

And I want to point this out for emphasis because apparently some of you can't read:

TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.


That's not to say I'm 100% sympathetic to the people down there.  I go back and forth on it*, but I'm intellectually honest enough to recognize that the visuals of seeing women and children getting shot by federal agents would look very, very, very bad for the government on TV.

Doesn't matter if you agree with the strategy or not, from a public relations standpoint, if things had gone all pear-shaped, it would have made the government look bad.  You may not like the people who thought of it, and you might think they are in the wrong, but you can't argue that fact.


*On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.  That's why he stopped paying the fees.  On the other hand, he could have kept grazing the 1,000 head there, ignoring the restriction, and kept paying the fees, which I think would put him in arguably a better position, especially if he could point to data that showed that over the 20 years, the desert tortoise population there remained stable or increased.  So I'm not sure I agree with what the guy did, and knowing that, I certainly wouldn't have hauled my ass out there to support him.
 
2014-04-15 08:09:47 AM  
Felgraf:

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?

Well, yeah, that precedent has been set. It flows from the top.

kaystreet.files.wordpress.com

"There is a vast amount of discretion that a president has - and, more specifically, that an attorney general has,"     -  Eric Holder

Laws are for suckers.
 
2014-04-15 08:09:47 AM  
Since Bundy's cattle are trespassing on BLM's land and threatening the habitat of endangered creatures, they should treat his cattle as pests and just shoot any they find on their property. Just put a few snipers out there with long range sights and tell them it's time for target practice, men. Bundy will catch on real quick and I bet his cattle will soon be staying right where they ought to be.

/or he'll pay up pretty fast
 
2014-04-15 08:10:37 AM  

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


...you've never been bullied, have you?
 
2014-04-15 08:11:21 AM  

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


Unfortunatley, no. The Federal Goverment is pretty much here to stay.
 .
 
2014-04-15 08:12:35 AM  

Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?


Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.
 
2014-04-15 08:13:12 AM  

jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


...filing tax liens, etc will make him just as much of a martyr to these folks as it would if they'd just gotten in a Ruby Ridge-esque firefight.  To them, any government action is too much government action, even the modest actions they've already done.
 
2014-04-15 08:14:58 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: "There is a vast amount of discretion that a president has - and, more specifically, that an attorney general has,"     -  Eric Holder

Laws are for suckers.


I'm going to guess that you're not a lawyer.
 
2014-04-15 08:15:35 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.


Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.
 
2014-04-15 08:16:04 AM  
Put a lien on everything he owns, get the money back. Then he can rebuild honestly, like the bootstrappy sovereign citizen he is.
 
2014-04-15 08:16:17 AM  
So once again the big group of tough guys turns out to be a great big bunch of pu**ies.

talk is cheap and bullshiat is expensive. Which these clowns will soon find out.
 
2014-04-15 08:17:12 AM  

Deep Contact: Militia propaganda. They learned from the best.


Yep. Rules for radicals, Saul Alynski. Patton read Rommel's book also.
 
2014-04-15 08:17:47 AM  

Launch Code: America is finally seeing how the obama administration treats citizens. 12 million illegal immigrants in the country, no problem. A rancher letting his cows eat some grass and It's time to send in the troops. It's disgusting how quickly barry will send storm troopers and snipers to harass and threaten American Citizens.
Why do democrats hate hard working Americans so much?


2/100.  You get credit for signing your name.
 
2014-04-15 08:18:13 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?

The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.


This is EXACTLY what 2nd Amendment Rights advocates are worried about - tyrants that say "Showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized government response"

I am sure the scary part about what you said is that you have no clue why it's disturbing to those who support the very right you would happily take away from them.
 
2014-04-15 08:21:53 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?


He's a clown, you're a nutball.
 
2014-04-15 08:22:51 AM  

evilbryan: Put a lien on everything he owns, get the money back. Then he can rebuild honestly, like the bootstrappy sovereign citizen he is.


Do you really think his response to creditors coming to repossess his assets is going to be any different than his response to the BLM coming to make sure his cows don't stray from his land?  Like I said, to him and the people who stood with him, any government action is too much government action.
 
2014-04-15 08:23:00 AM  
BLM should poison the grass.

Problem solved
 
2014-04-15 08:23:12 AM  

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


"highly vulnerable to bad press" ?
Um, yeah about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge">http://en.wikipedia.org/wik i/Ruby_Ridge
Happened and where was the public outcry?
FFS man the cops will kick your ass and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
 
2014-04-15 08:23:17 AM  

Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.


Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.
 
2014-04-15 08:24:07 AM  

Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?

He's a clown, you're a nutball.


So that's really your defense?
 
2014-04-15 08:25:58 AM  
Hmmm, just like Hamas.

Stay classy, tea derpers.
 
2014-04-15 08:27:42 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?

He's a clown, you're a nutball.

So that's really your defense?

What had you really expected?
 
2014-04-15 08:28:39 AM  

dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.


So firing behind unarmed people and using them as meat shields is ok in your book?
 
2014-04-15 08:29:41 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?

He's a clown, you're a nutball.

So that's really your defense?


Why yes, yes it is. I see from bothering to read the entire thread, that I am not alone in my opinion.
 
2014-04-15 08:30:14 AM  

tinderfitles: I don't to many people from OWS sitting behind concrete walls and drawing a bead on Federal Agents.


You seem something there.
 
2014-04-15 08:31:11 AM  

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.


So, hide behind the women like a coward is their BEST strategy.

Maybe they should just give up and go home.
 
2014-04-15 08:32:00 AM  

Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?

He's a clown, you're a nutball.

So that's really your defense?

Why yes, yes it is. I see from bothering to read the entire thread, that I am not alone in my opinion.


I haven't seen anything this weak from anyone else in thread.
 
2014-04-15 08:32:11 AM  
Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.
 
2014-04-15 08:33:10 AM  
Why is Glenn Beck so upset with these guys? Aren't they dead center of his target demographic?

Did Bundy come out and say that Goldline is a scam? Was Beck planning on irrigating the desert with tears?
 
2014-04-15 08:33:13 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: My (off topic) point is that I'm tired of people breaking out Sun Tzu quotes. About half of what he said is pretty reasonable


Sounds more like you caught the blues.

You admit that at least half of what he says is reasonable. Guess what, ke= 1/2 mv2 EVERYONE knows it. Everyone will always know it. People still talk about it though.

So lighten up. Also, were there in China when we wrote that? It might just be he was correct.
 
2014-04-15 08:33:24 AM  
 I think more of a problem would have arose trying to hold the women back.
 
2014-04-15 08:33:59 AM  
I wonder when there will be some actual news on this story again?
 
2014-04-15 08:34:18 AM  

Cold_Sassy: I am not alone in my opinion.

Do you think that proves anything? Let me let you in a little secret it doesn't. Even if it did most of the dudes throwing that shiat out are just doing it to piss people off.
 
2014-04-15 08:34:33 AM  

dittybopper: vpb: dittybopper:

*On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.  That's why he stopped paying the fees.  On the other hand, he could have kept grazing the 1,000 head there, ignoring the restriction, and kept paying the fees, which I think would put him in arguably a better position, especially if he could point to data that showed that over the 20 years, the desert tortoise population there remained stable or increased.  So I'm not ...


I'll be honest, I haven't been following this at all, so basically he's upset that the owner of land he was LEASING changed the terms of his lease?

Well, I guess you shouldn't build a business based continually getting a "favorable" deal from the government?
 
2014-04-15 08:36:26 AM  
randomjsa:

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.

What liberal belief do you think is being contradicted here?  Please be specific and cite a source for this common liberal belief.
 
2014-04-15 08:37:22 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.

Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.


That would be a little counterproductive from their point of view. Manipulation works best when it's subtle. If a woman stood up and said they they wouldn't dare shoot through us for fear of public backlash, people will be less likely to be sympathetic to their cause. besides, how do you think the women will get out in front of the men? Do you think they will be forced out in front? Or do you think they will willingly go forward? This would lead to one of two interpretations 1) the women are weak and stupid or 2) they would knowingly and complicitly stand in front of armed opposition.

And now for a bit of my own sexism. Those women must have giant balls, and therefore cannot be women at all.
 
2014-04-15 08:37:38 AM  

randomjsa: Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.


Which things that "liberals claim to" believe "should" make them support this rancher?

They are using threats of violence to attempt to change government action, what does that make them in your book?
 
2014-04-15 08:37:39 AM  

dittybopper: tinderfitles: I don't to many people from OWS sitting behind concrete walls and drawing a bead on Federal Agents.

You seem something there.


Yeah it's early and I am still waiting on the coffee to finish. It happens.
 
2014-04-15 08:37:49 AM  

d23: What wonderful heroes the conservative movement has these days.

A loser who wants to use women for human shields because he wants to have a standoff over the fact that he wants to steal from the government.

Freedom!


yeah I have a feeling the gubmint will have the last laugh though. all he won was a little delay. the Feds will eventually get their money and get the cattle off the land.
 
2014-04-15 08:38:26 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]


What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.
 
2014-04-15 08:38:33 AM  
So then they are America's Palenstinians?
 
2014-04-15 08:40:23 AM  

KyngNothing: randomjsa: Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.

Which things that "liberals claim to" believe "should" make them support this rancher?

They are using threats of violence to attempt to change government action, what does that make them in your book?


Well he wants free stuff from the government. Duh.
 
2014-04-15 08:40:34 AM  

SpectroBoy: doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

So, hide behind the women like a coward is their BEST strategy.

Maybe they should just give up and go home.


Are the women not people themselves? No one's forcing them to be crazy militia chicks. They CHOOSE this.

And quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage. Go get between a ewe and her lamb and get back to me.
 
2014-04-15 08:41:40 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


I think it's hysterical, people accusing illegal aliens of 'stealing resources' without being able to give concrete examples of what they're 'stealing' (oil?), but ignore and *cheer* for a moocher in plain view, who *ADMITS* he's a moocher, but just doesn't want to pay for what he's taken.
 
2014-04-15 08:41:49 AM  
Cattle farmers and ranchers lease non-BLM pasture all the time and they pay a hell of a lot more in fees on the private market than they would to the BLM. This crazy farker is just an asshole with boots, not to mention a criminal.
 
2014-04-15 08:42:06 AM  

Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.

Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.

That would be a little counterproductive from their point of view. Manipulation works best when it's subtle. If a woman stood up and said they they wouldn't dare shoot through us for fear of public backlash, people will be less likely to be sympathetic to their cause.


Well Cleatus already done let that cat out of the bag. So be sure to let us know when you've verified your version of events.
 
2014-04-15 08:44:09 AM  
I just hope this gets resolved through the use of drones.
 
2014-04-15 08:44:22 AM  

dittybopper: *On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.


You are smarter than this.

The govt no longer giving him a good deal on grazing land can't intellegently or honestly be equated to limiting how many hours you work.

dittybopper: "It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


When was OWS heavily armed and getting ready for gun battles with the govt?
 
2014-04-15 08:45:55 AM  

doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.

So do you fight women often?
 
2014-04-15 08:46:54 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


2/12  You get a gold star, but everyone gets a gold star today, just for trying.
 
2014-04-15 08:47:30 AM  

Snarfangel: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]
[img.fark.net image 521x350]

Of course. When someone gets a freebie for twenty years, they become dependent on it, and see it as an entitlement.


Pretty Gottverdammt much. And folks are lining up to defend him...because?
 
2014-04-15 08:48:29 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.

Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.

That would be a little counterproductive from their point of view. Manipulation works best when it's subtle. If a woman stood up and said they they wouldn't dare shoot through us for fear of public backlash, people will be less likely to be sympathetic to their cause.

Well Cleatus already done let that cat out of the bag. So be sure to let us know when you've verified your version of events.


So the alternative is that they're being coerced or manipulated? Yeah, I'm done discussing things with the enemy of reason.

For the record, I don't side with the rancher or his retarded male and female followers. I just take offense to your stereotyping and your glaring inability to see these women as anything but meat shields.
 
2014-04-15 08:48:39 AM  

cryptonomiciosis: Al Queso?


Al Bundhi
 
2014-04-15 08:48:40 AM  
The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.
 
2014-04-15 08:50:00 AM  
FWIW, here is the video segment referenced in the article, and in the Blaze article.  Handily hosted on youtube so that you don't have to sully your hands with The Blaze.

VIDEO

He's pretty much straight up saying that they were going to use women as human shields.  And this is AFTER things were resolved without bloodshed.  And the guy is a former Sheriff, no less.  I'm planning on staying out of Nevada.  It might be crazy out there.
 
2014-04-15 08:51:23 AM  

Truther: TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?

The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.

This is EXACTLY what 2nd Amendment Rights advocates are worried about - tyrants that say "Showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized government response"

I am sure the scary part about what you said is that you have no clue why it's disturbing to those who support the very right you would happily take away from them.


Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The NSA should track down everyone shown pointing guns at the BLM agents from the photos and charge them all with terrorism.
 
2014-04-15 08:51:31 AM  

ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?


No. But I read a lot. It saves me the trouble of dying every few minutes to learn "What happens when...?"

Historically, women that DO get into combat shame the men not in prowess but in courage and/or ruthlessness. The Comanche used to let their women torture prisoners. They were especially fond of cutting off noses and slow roasting. By contrast, in WW2, oftentimes men would give their enemies the chance to surrender BEFORE the flamethrowers were deployed, and they would routinely shoot enemy combatants with fatal amounts of napalm on their bodies for mercy's sake.
 
2014-04-15 08:52:21 AM  

Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.


Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.
 
2014-04-15 08:53:47 AM  

Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.


No, people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.
 
2014-04-15 08:54:12 AM  

Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.


I don't think the Occupy supporters want to kill Bundy.   They didn't bring the guns.   I think they would just like him to pay his fair share for the public resources he is using - after all, he is a wealthy businessman.  You know, ,just like the bankers the Occupy supporters want to pay their fair share for the public resources they are using.

The argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits
 
2014-04-15 08:57:01 AM  

IlGreven: ...filing tax liens, etc will make him just as much of a martyr to these folks as it would if they'd just gotten in a Ruby Ridge-esque firefight.  To them, any government action is too much government action, even the modest actions they've already done.


True, but the mainstream media isn't going to cover the administrative proceedings wherein the federal government attaches a lien to all of Mr. Bundy's taxable property.  That dampens the rebels' attempts to turn public opinion in their favor.
 
2014-04-15 08:57:05 AM  

Abuse Liability: I just take offense to your stereotyping and your glaring inability to see these women as anything but meat shields.


Exactly. They might be retards, but their balls are bigger than anyone in this threads. They CHOSE to be retarded and back up this crazy endeavor to protect a horrible man and his stupid fight that's gone on for 20 years now.

If they choose to be human shields, that's laudable, even if they're on the wrong side of the issue. They're taking the path of Gandhi and the Buddha, in a way. I certainly wouldn't even lift my littlest finger to help Bundy or his coos, let alone risk my life by getting in a crossfire zone.

And, don't forget, it's worked so far. The BLT actually backed off.
 
2014-04-15 08:57:28 AM  
That militia is nothing but a bunch of cowards and thieves. All of them.
 
2014-04-15 08:57:50 AM  

CRtwenty: Man, if these guys lost Glenn Beck who do they have left?


Guys like Dreck, Limpblow and Insanity don't really believe their own rhetoric.  You think Putin would allow clowns like these on the airwaves in Russia?  The right-wing talk derp-o-sphere exploits the newly disenfranchised white working/middle class for their won benefit.  The last thing any of them would want to see is a US run by the likes of Bundy and his friends.

As for the gubermint's response to Bundy, they did the right thing.  The gov is providing these "patriots" with enough rope to hang themselves with.   I'm gonna guess their encore will be to start lynching illegals for trespassing on "their" land.
 
2014-04-15 08:58:41 AM  

LordJiro: Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.

Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.


Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid.  If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence.

Another piece of evidence in the growing pile that indicates that the only way to get anything done in this country is to do the wrong thing until people give up trying to correct you.
 
2014-04-15 09:00:16 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


...meanwhile, everyone else is wondering why it's not okay when it's an illegal noncitizen, but it's okay when it's a sovereign citizen who claims he's not an American? (and yes, he has claimed that. Numerous times.)
 
2014-04-15 09:00:18 AM  

doglover: You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful.


But guns?  2nd amendment?  Watering the tree of liberty?
 
2014-04-15 09:00:55 AM  

Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.


May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?
 
2014-04-15 09:00:58 AM  

neomunk: Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid. If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence


I'm amazed that liberals never use force.
 
2014-04-15 09:01:11 AM  

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


Who?

The Blaze?

way south: Blm needs to put its guns and body armor back in the locker and look for more negotiable alternatives for sharing the land. Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.


BLM did de-escalate. They do not and should not need to "share" the land with this asshole on his terms. He can abide with the regulations like the other ranchers do or fark off.

Twenty farking years is pretty goddamn patient.
 
2014-04-15 09:02:35 AM  
They're freaking cows. They do what they want.
 
2014-04-15 09:02:55 AM  

LordJiro: Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.

Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.


Yeah, just like the 1% who keep all of their money in offshore bank accounts.  TOTALLY different,
 
2014-04-15 09:03:19 AM  

neomunk: Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid. If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence.


Are you serious?  Letting cows shiat all over the desert is one thing, farking with Goldman Sachs is on an entirely different level.
 
2014-04-15 09:03:39 AM  

neomunk: Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid.  If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence.


...from a media that's owned by the very corporations they're protesting? There's no way they're going to paint that as a success, even if it were successful. Didn't matter what they did; if they'd've done the exact same thing the Tea Partiers did, they'd be labeled copycats.
 
2014-04-15 09:06:12 AM  

doglover: Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.

May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?


1.Kinda - Maine
2. Maine

I am a direct decedent of William Bradford, governor of Plymouth Colony
 
2014-04-15 09:06:57 AM  

Publikwerks: doglover: Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.

May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?

1.Kinda - Maine
2. Maine

I am a direct decedent of William Bradford, governor of Plymouth Colony


That was meant to mean that my family roots go back to an Original colony
 
2014-04-15 09:07:10 AM  
img.fark.net

I've seen how this turns out.

Incidentally, here is how I would handle this situation.

"Kids...you come out of there now and put down your toys.  I'm going to give you to the count of ten and then I will come in there and spank you."

Spanking doesn't have to be lethal.  Just start airdropping pig shiat and weaponized durian fruit all over their entire compound.  Then let nature do its smelly work.  They'll come out.
 
2014-04-15 09:08:14 AM  

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


img4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-04-15 09:08:53 AM  

poot_rootbeer: IlGreven: ...filing tax liens, etc will make him just as much of a martyr to these folks as it would if they'd just gotten in a Ruby Ridge-esque firefight.  To them, any government action is too much government action, even the modest actions they've already done.

True, but the mainstream media isn't going to cover the administrative proceedings wherein the federal government attaches a lien to all of Mr. Bundy's taxable property.  That dampens the rebels' attempts to turn public opinion in their favor.


He just learned he has 1,500 buddies that would come and stand with him, guns ready to blaze, against a federal government who's only looking to keep his cows on his land.  Do you really think those 1,500 people won't come again against a federal government coming to seize property from a tax lien?  Hell, I'll bet he'll get 3,000 at that point, and celebrity help from tax cheats like Wesley Snipes and the Hovind family.

Again, this can have a peaceful end (in which case he gets away with his transgression and emboldens many others to do similar), or it can end justly (in which case, however it gets there, the federal government will have to fire on him and his supporters, thus getting blood on their hands and making him a martyr, and emboldening many others to do similar).  It cannot have both.
 
2014-04-15 09:10:27 AM  

notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits


Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.
 
2014-04-15 09:11:08 AM  

natas6.0: I want to say this is what got people to remove the american royalty and start over
but it won't
just a little group of people who work with their hands,
discredited by the information machine that feeds us.
and they'll lose


That's a terrible limerick.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:04 AM  

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.


No it isn't. Public opinion is fickle. You think these people will gather again next month and monthly if need be to defend this dudes cattle?

He will lose, not through one cut, but thousands of tiny ones.

The way to win is the courts. That's how the guy from Ruby Ridge won. Not by getting into a shootout that got his family killed. But by going to the courts after he put his weapons down.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:08 AM  

jso2897: I wonder when there will be some actual news on this story again?


When BLM hands it off to the IRS and they keep it real.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:09 AM  
This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:13 AM  

JohnnyC: After seeing things like that dude with the rifle aimed at people from behind that cement embankment and the various other asshats threatening violence if they don't get their way.... The obvious conclusion I'm lead to there is that those people want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans.

Given that the government folks backed off a bit out of fear of safety for everyone involved, I can only conclude that they aren't interested in shooting their fellow Americans (or even seeing anyone get hurt).

So whether or not the "militia" folks were planning on using women as a shield or not... it doesn't seem very hard to figure out who the good folks are here.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.


I stand by my idea of letting M1 tanks and Apache helicopters use his herd for soft target practice.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:35 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?


That's crazy.  Nobody has enough stamps to mail one hundred thousand troops, and even if they did, you know they'd arrive mangled or late.
 
2014-04-15 09:12:51 AM  

Graffito: doglover: You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful.

But guns?  2nd amendment?  Watering the tree of liberty?


Are you for real with your ignorant false dichotomy?

The desired effect of the second amendment was manifold, but the main push was something along the lines of the old English law where any man of a certain age was required to practice with the Longbow one day per week. The goal is to have a population that has their own weapons and the wherewithal to use them. This means that when the government drafted troops, they wouldn't have to train or arm them, meaning they could field a huge amount of ready archers with on a tiny budget.

In the case of the US, this means that every G-Man was raised with guns, so they know how to use 'em pretty damn well and should clean the clocks off anyone who WASN'T raised with guns and only had a few weeks' training. This actually played out for real in WWII when the best fighter pilots and snipers were all farm boys.

In the case of the militias, there's other amendments at play. The second amendment doesn't factor in at all because the government has more money, more people, AND the same rights.
 
2014-04-15 09:13:02 AM  

Spanky McStupid: If this is true, this makes the Bundy people no better than Al Quida (or however the hell that bunch spells their organization's name.)


Actually, this sounds more like something Hamas would do against the Israelis...fire on armed troops while hiding behind women and children.  Provoke the other side into giving you a bunch of bloody, innocent bodies to show to the press.
 
2014-04-15 09:13:15 AM  

Felgraf: Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.

I think it's hysterical, people accusing illegal aliens of 'stealing resources' without being able to give concrete examples of what they're 'stealing' (oil?), but ignore and *cheer* for a moocher in plain view, who *ADMITS* he's a moocher, but just doesn't want to pay for what he's taken.


Meh. She's from stormfront, it's always racial with her.
 
2014-04-15 09:14:00 AM  

OregonVet: I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".


I was picturing the Bunny Ranch's Women first policy.

/Giggity
 
2014-04-15 09:14:01 AM  
Mrbogey:
Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

So, he doesn't really want to pay his money.  Your argument is silly.   If he wants to pay his money, absolutely nothing is stopping him from paying it, other than his unwillingness to pay it.
 
2014-04-15 09:14:19 AM  
There's a 1000 people standing out in the desert supporting this free loader?  Don't these people have jobs?
 
2014-04-15 09:15:07 AM  

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


So.... Occupy Wall Street was gearing up for a shooting match?
 
2014-04-15 09:15:08 AM  

dittybopper: *On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.


No, this is a guy who's been cheating a government welfare system for 20 years an the government has finally decided to cut off his benefits and make him rely on the private market.  But since he fits the stereotypical profile of a teabagger instead of a "welfare queen", the anti-government-handout crowd is rallying behind him to ensure he can continue receiving his government freebies.

And before you go all "b-b-but libs!", liberals don't like people scamming the government for money, either.  The problem is that most conservative solutions blanketly punish everyone for the crimes of a few, which is a solution liberals oppose (the Type 1 error vs Type 2 error preference that has been suggested a lot).  This is one guy who can be singled out and dealt with without unnecessarily burdening law-abiding ranchers.
 
2014-04-15 09:15:20 AM  

hubiestubert: Snarfangel: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]
[img.fark.net image 521x350]

Of course. When someone gets a freebie for twenty years, they become dependent on it, and see it as an entitlement.

Pretty Gottverdammt much. And folks are lining up to defend him...because?


It's my understanding it's a State vs Fed issue.  Bundy claims he wanted to pay Clark County for the grazing and that it wasn't the Feds place.  Eh. seems weak.

However the Feds sending in armed rangers, helicopters and seizing the cattle seemed a bit of overreach, no? Esp. so when they had no one to take the cattle and it looked like the cattle would be harmed. They ended up tasing Bundy's son.  From what i've read Bundy seems to have the local support (as well as the support of milita's from other States).
 
2014-04-15 09:15:31 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

And if he wore hot pants on Tuesdays we'd all be dying our hair purple.  Your point?


Yes, I can see the stoners in here doing just that
 
2014-04-15 09:15:55 AM  

Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.

i.imgflip.com
 
2014-04-15 09:15:57 AM  

Mrbogey: notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits

Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.


So can we see the difference between unarmed civil disobedience and being arrested for your beliefs, and armed insurrection and threatening a federal officer?

Maybe we can get you a coloring book. With small words.
 
2014-04-15 09:16:49 AM  

ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?


It sounds like he spends more time with sheep.
 
2014-04-15 09:17:05 AM  

Danger Mouse: .  From what i've read Bundy seems to have the local support (as well as the support of milita's from other States).


That's doesn't make him right.
 
2014-04-15 09:17:19 AM  

Mrbogey: Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.



A) Nobody, not even assholes in cowboy boots, get to decide how their taxes and fees are spent. He can suck it long and suck it hard.

B) If he gave 2 shots about land rights he would pay the fees since the rightful owner of the property has the right to collect fees for use.

C) Occupy was exercising free speech, not operating a commercial for-profit venture
 
2014-04-15 09:18:00 AM  

JackieRabbit: Cattle farmers and ranchers lease non-BLM pasture all the time and they pay a hell of a lot more in fees on the private market than they would to the BLM. This crazy farker is just an asshole with boots, not to mention a criminal.


Pretty damn much. He's not a hero, he's just a moocher who is mad that he can't skew his business model with what he thinks of as an entitlement, which gives him a competitive edge for his business. Slap him with fines, fines, fines, and if they are enough, put a lien on the property for it, and call it good, and then when he comes to court, arrest his ass for the rest of the charges. He's not a hero, he's just an asshat looking for his handout.
 
2014-04-15 09:18:25 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


WTF do illegal aliens have to do with this?

Do your right-wing sensibilities tell you that when some asshole cheats the welfare system that they're rockin' it OF, BY and FOR the people? That's what this little shiat-for-brains rancher is doing. The difference being, nobody cares if the government swoops in and arrests the welfare cheat. But one stupid rancher? OMG! FASCISM!
 
2014-04-15 09:18:25 AM  

AdamK: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want


His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.
 
2014-04-15 09:19:04 AM  

Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.


OK.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp
 
2014-04-15 09:19:05 AM  

Mrbogey: notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits

Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.


So he wants to "pay his money", but on his own terms? That's not how it works.

What is "unfair" about this? Truly, I haven't been following this at all - tell me, how is the government treating him unfairly? How are they treating him differently than other ranchers out west? What have they done to him that most other ranchers don't have to deal with?
 
2014-04-15 09:19:12 AM  

SpectroBoy: C) Occupy was exercising free speech, not operating a commercial for-profit venture


B... b...b...ut dirty hippies.
 
2014-04-15 09:20:18 AM  

randomjsa: Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.


So explain to me why I should support these guys?  It looks to me like Bundy's been illegally using government land for years without paying rent. Why do you support him?
 
2014-04-15 09:20:22 AM  

doglover: Graffito: doglover: You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful.

But guns?  2nd amendment?  Watering the tree of liberty?

Are you for real with your ignorant false dichotomy?

The desired effect of the second amendment was manifold, but the main push was something along the lines of the old English law where any man of a certain age was required to practice with the Longbow one day per week. The goal is to have a population that has their own weapons and the wherewithal to use them. This means that when the government drafted troops, they wouldn't have to train or arm them, meaning they could field a huge amount of ready archers with on a tiny budget.

In the case of the US, this means that every G-Man was raised with guns, so they know how to use 'em pretty damn well and should clean the clocks off anyone who WASN'T raised with guns and only had a few weeks' training. This actually played out for real in WWII when the best fighter pilots and snipers were all farm boys.

In the case of the militias, there's other amendments at play. The second amendment doesn't factor in at all because the government has more money, more people, AND the same rights.


I disagree, with the reason being that the founding fathers were concerned with constraining federal powers with the bill of rights. They had just given the new Federal government a whole boatload of new powers over the articles of confederation, and Jefferson and the democrats were worried about the Federal Government trying to ride roughshod over the States. So they made sure that the states had the ability to hold the Federal government to task vis a vis armed rebellion., like they did during the civil war.

But those amendments DID NOT apply to the states until the 14th amendment. Up until then, the states were free to limit guns however they chose. So it wasn't that they were concerned about people being able to use guns. Hell, that's like the government being concerned about people being able to use the john now. It was something people knew how to do.
 
2014-04-15 09:20:27 AM  

Muta: There's a 1000 people standing out in the desert supporting this free loader?  Don't these people have jobs?


Just wait until Bundy gets the bill from NV Energy that includes the cost of recharging more than a thousand Hoverrounds. He'll be BEGGING the feds to take their land back.
 
2014-04-15 09:20:44 AM  

Publikwerks: doglover: Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.

May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?

1.Kinda - Maine
2. Maine

I am a direct decedent of William Bradford, governor of Plymouth Colony


Okay, cool beans.

I was just curious.

Having grown up in Appalachia, my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans, but with a lot less animosity. There's way too many instances of corrupt officials trying to oppress honest citizens to blindly follow where "Old Glory" leads. At the same time, I can't find a better country than the IDEAL put forth in the Constitution.

In this case in particular: Bundy's wrong on many levels and needs stopped. However the women willing to get in front of their men to prove their retarded point is inspiring to me. I wouldn't come within earshot of a three letter agency for cows, let alone ride their goons' crosshairs. As far as I'm concerned, Bundy should just lose ownership of his cows if they graze on public land. The police should come in, take 'em, and steak 'em. But I have to give mad props to the militia people for realizing they're an ant fighting a giant, ass kicking boot and adopting an actual strategy as opposed to some symbolic bullshiat.
 
2014-04-15 09:21:59 AM  
Lee451:

His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.

You really want to use that argument in Nevada?
 
2014-04-15 09:22:13 AM  

Muta: There's a 1000 people standing out in the desert supporting this free loader?  Don't these people have jobs?


I would estimate between 70-80% of them are social security disability for health issues directly related to being obese.
 
2014-04-15 09:22:39 AM  

Mrbogey: Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.


Yeah, well, guess what? If I pay my rent to my dentist because I think my landlord's an asshole, HE CAN STILL EVICT ME.

Danger Mouse: However the Feds sending in armed rangers, helicopters and seizing the cattle seemed a bit of overreach, no? Esp. so when they had no one to take the cattle and it looked like the cattle would be harmed.


They seized cattle that was on their lands. If I park my car on your front lawn, am I allowed to come and threaten to shoot you/the tow truck if you have it towed?
 
2014-04-15 09:22:46 AM  

doglover: my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans

How long have you had that one in the chamber Captain Fedora?
 
2014-04-15 09:23:36 AM  
First ThnkProgress, now TPM. The Obama administration mouthpiece sites are in full spin mode.
 
2014-04-15 09:23:44 AM  

doglover: In this case in particular: Bundy's wrong on many levels and needs stopped. However the women willing to get in front of their men to prove their retarded point is inspiring to me


I disagree.  Those women  are brainwashed kooks.
 
2014-04-15 09:24:27 AM  
I heard this morning that there's a beef shortage thanks to the polar vortex and the booming market overseas. The feds should confiscate this welfare cheat's cattle, and sell them to pay for the inconvenience he's caused.
 
2014-04-15 09:24:52 AM  

Publikwerks: It was something people knew how to do.


To be fair, if you haven't used a Japanese toilet, using the john seems obvious.

farm1.staticflickr.com

Try this on for size. Too difficult, okay, here's one. Hope you have your pilot's license:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-15 09:24:56 AM  
 
2014-04-15 09:25:08 AM  
For the record I'd like to state that I'm NOT for Occupy supporters going out armed and acting badly like these hypocrites are, I was just expressing my frustration over what I perceive to be the coddling and enabling of truly bad behavior while violently cracking down on legitimate protest.
 
2014-04-15 09:25:35 AM  
So, terrorists then.
 
2014-04-15 09:25:48 AM  

Publikwerks: BLM should poison the grass.

Problem solved


content6.flixster.com
POISON the grass!

/got nothin'
 
2014-04-15 09:25:54 AM  

Utter Genius: First ThnkProgress, now TPM. The Obama administration mouthpiece sites are in full spin mode.


Once again, the video was a FOX news story and it was being pimped on Glenn Effing Becks website.  Sadly, Ronald Regan and Thomas Jefferson are unavailable to pimp this story, due to their demises.
 
2014-04-15 09:26:06 AM  

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.


No, no it shouldn't. If the owner of your apartment building changes hands, you can't get out of paying rent because you were there before the current owner owned the place.
 
2014-04-15 09:26:14 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Truther: TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?

The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.

This is EXACTLY what 2nd Amendment Rights advocates are worried about - tyrants that say "Showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized government response"

I am sure the scary part about what you said is that you have no clue why it's disturbing to those who support the very right you would happily take away from them.

Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The NSA should track down everyone shown pointing guns at the BLM agents from the photos and charge them all with terrorism.


Lucky for us you don't get to decide who is allowed to posses firearms.

/in this case, I don't think threatening federal officials with guns was smart
//but one of the reasons the founding fathers wanted the right to bear arms was to prevent the government from becoming tyrannical
///these folks believe that the government was being tyrannical with the excessive show of force
 
2014-04-15 09:26:49 AM  

Lee451: AdamK: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want

His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.


If they've been grazing there that long, shouldn't they have put in a claim on the land? Or bought it? So basically they've been grazing on land they don't own for generations?
 
2014-04-15 09:26:53 AM  

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.


img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 09:27:13 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: doglover: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?

War hasn't actually changed at all in the fundamentals. Be it ants, chimps, or humans in any epoch, the fundamentals remain the same. That's why Starcraft, the US military, and the Mongols all use the Zerg Rush.

My (off topic) point is that I'm tired of people breaking out Sun Tzu quotes. About half of what he said is pretty reasonable, but patently obvious stuff ("Move by stealth! Disguise your intentions! Occupy the high ground!") and the other half is just random crap like how many ox carts equal one archer or whatever. Whenever I see a Sun Tzu quote, or someone pulling out the tired Clausewitz "war is the continuation of politics by other means," I've got a very strong "stopped reading there" inclination.


application.denofgeek.com

To learn my teachings, I must first teach you how to learn.
 
2014-04-15 09:27:40 AM  

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.


Even before the BLM existed the land was still owned by the Government. Are you saying that the Government isn't allowed to change the rules for using their own land?
 
2014-04-15 09:27:45 AM  

Fissile: neomunk: Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid. If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence.

Are you serious?  Letting cows shiat all over the desert is one thing, farking with Goldman Sachs is on an entirely different level.


Getting occupiers to carry arms in a situation where they may be killed for it isn't going to happen.  Or is it?  How many would show up?  The people in Nevada showed up and pointed guns right back at the jack boots.  I'm impressed, even if the government is going to come back and kill the rancher's entire family while they sleep.  I sympathize with the guy's argument the federal government lost that open land when Nevada became a state, and I sympathize with the broader argument the federal government should just fark off once in a while and worry about the border or something.  But I'd just pay the buck or so per head even if I thought it was bull.
 
2014-04-15 09:28:21 AM  

doglover: Okay, cool beans.

I was just curious.

Having grown up in Appalachia, my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans, but with a lot less animosity. There's way too many instances of corrupt officials trying to oppress honest citizens to blindly follow where "Old Glory" leads. At the same time, I can't find a better country than the IDEAL put forth in the Constitution.

In this case in particular: Bundy's wrong on many levels and needs stopped. However the women willing to get in front of their men to prove their retarded point is inspiring to me. I wouldn't come within earshot of a three letter agency for cows, let alone ride their goons' crosshairs. As far as I'm concerned, Bundy should just lose ownership of his cows if they graze on public land. The police should come in, take 'em, and steak 'em. But I have to give mad props to the militia people for realizing they're an ant fighting a giant, ass kicking boot and adopting an actual strategy as opposed to some symbolic bullshiat.


Here's what gets me - I don't have a problem with protesting. I have no problem with taking the government to task for perceived wrongs.

I have issue with 1. Threatening to kill federal officers for taking cows. 2. Planning on making a massacre scene for pr purposes.

We have a system in place for dealing with government overreach. Yes, armed rebellion can be part of it, but it should be the last step. He hasn't availed himself of it. He hasn't gone to court, hasn't argued his case in front of a judge or a jury of his peers. He has made no effort to right this, because I think he knows he's wrong.
 
2014-04-15 09:28:27 AM  
Fortunately, the government's "shoot first, ask questions later" style of management has mostly ended with the Iraq debacle.  No, we don't want to see heavy handedness and needless death because the 24-hour news media is too impatient to let the situation work itself out peaceably over time.   The gov't is simply biding its time, waiting for the militia types to get bored and hungry and then leave.  Oh, there will still be a few hardcore types left but in the meantime, let's let due process do the work to resolve this in the way a civilized society should: get liens, injunctions and writs to cut off this loon's access to electricity, internet, phone, water, fuel, food and deliveries of all kinds.  You wanna be an sovereign island? good luck with that.
 
2014-04-15 09:28:33 AM  

doglover: ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?

No. But I read a lot. It saves me the trouble of dying every few minutes to learn "What happens when...?"

Historically, women that DO get into combat shame the men not in prowess but in courage and/or ruthlessness. The Comanche used to let their women torture prisoners. They were especially fond of cutting off noses and slow roasting. By contrast, in WW2, oftentimes men would give their enemies the chance to surrender BEFORE the flamethrowers were deployed, and they would routinely shoot enemy combatants with fatal amounts of napalm on their bodies for mercy's sake.


When bouncing, the worst fights to break up were when women were involved.

Men? We have off switches. We have been inculcated with social dominance cues most of our lives, and we play by a particular set of rules. Mostly. And when those rules are broken, there's a fairly predictable set of responses to the breaking of those rules, which are likewise set up by years of conditioning. Women? They don't have those same cues. Women fighting, it's a whole different thing, because where a man will see he's beat, and settle down, a woman will get more and more desperate, and that's natural, but it's absolutely no fun to deal with on the floor. Where a man will stand down, a woman will ramp things up. When stepping in to break up a fight with women, you also have to deal with menfolk who suddenly get courage to "stand up" for their ladies, where they weren't doing jack or sh*t to stop the fight in the first place, no matter if it was threatening to escalate, and that brought its own headaches.
 
2014-04-15 09:28:41 AM  

LordJiro: Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.

Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.


Technically this all Native American land and we should be paying THEM rent.
But I digress. The government makes up whatever rules they want and act like absolute jerks most of the time. His family has been on that land for generations. Then the feds come along and start tacking on fees and screwing with them. I wouldn't feel particularly cooperative either.
 
2014-04-15 09:29:53 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Brick-House: Brick-House: It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout

Southern border keeping the flood of people and drugs at bay

Are you blind or something?


No... posting from my phone while on a train.  And it really makes me wonder how people are comfortable with this kind of action from the federal government. Do we really need every federal agency being able to dispatch Special Forces Teams?  And other than Fox, where are the news teams reporting on this?
 
2014-04-15 09:29:53 AM  

lantawa: Reid the rules.  That's all you need to know or do, tax slaves.


img2.wikia.nocookie.net

I think we need a drinking game.  Everyone take a swig when called "tax slave."
 
2014-04-15 09:30:12 AM  

someonelse: Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.

OK.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp



http://scgnews.com/bundy-ranch-what-youre-not-being-told
d56amtpp2y9sx.cloudfront.net
 
2014-04-15 09:31:23 AM  
Cold_Sassy:

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

Holy sh#tballs. I've been assured by Drew that there are no racists on Fark.com, it's only people with different opinions and furthermore comma
 
2014-04-15 09:31:53 AM  

doglover: Abuse Liability: I just take offense to your stereotyping and your glaring inability to see these women as anything but meat shields.

Exactly. They might be retards, but their balls are bigger than anyone in this threads. They CHOSE to be retarded and back up this crazy endeavor to protect a horrible man and his stupid fight that's gone on for 20 years now.

If they choose to be human shields, that's laudable, even if they're on the wrong side of the issue. They're taking the path of Gandhi and the Buddha, in a way. I certainly wouldn't even lift my littlest finger to help Bundy or his coos, let alone risk my life by getting in a crossfire zone.

And, don't forget, it's worked so far. The BLT actually backed off.


To be fair, it is hard for the wimmin to make a sandwich unless they are in the kitchen. These guys using them as shields can't get their BLT's. Those ferocious sandwiches laden with pig, lettuce, tomato, and mayo, between two slices of freedom bread. Sad really. I know I like a good BLT myself. Well, unless they follow behind the wimmin folk into the kitchen to let them make their glorious freedom sandwiches.

Conservatives used to joke about men hiding behind wimmin's skirts. Something, something, cowards? I mean, when we have a guy we want to bomb and they start using human shields (in particular women and children) we start accusing them of various cowardly things.

So, how are these cowards any different than Saddam really? Bundy is taking land he doesn't have permission to and extracting a resource from it, grass in this case. When threatened with superior firepower, he puts the wimmin and chilldrun up front so they can take bullets for the 2nd amendment tough guys, and generate bad press. No different really than a 2nd or 3rd world dictator that has convinced his people that America is the Great Satan.
 
2014-04-15 09:32:25 AM  

notto: Danger Mouse: .  From what i've read Bundy seems to have the local support (as well as the support of milita's from other States).

That's doesn't make him right.


No it doesn't, maybe I'm missing something here, being on the east coast and not having a good sense of farmers rights or practices. Because,  yea, if he didn't pay his grazing fee  then sure, what the fark is his beef? Since these lands cross over state boundries I could see it being in the BLM arena.   But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?
 
2014-04-15 09:32:34 AM  
It's assholes like these that make the dozens of responsible gun owners in this country look bad.
 
2014-04-15 09:32:40 AM  

doglover: Publikwerks: It was something people knew how to do.

To be fair, if you haven't used a Japanese toilet, using the john seems obvious.

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 500x375]

Try this on for size. Too difficult, okay, here's one. Hope you have your pilot's license:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x592]


I WANT TO TRY THAT TOILET.

Of course, I don't know if it could handle what I bring.

//Needs a Ferguson
 
2014-04-15 09:32:45 AM  

Brick-House: No... posting from my phone while on a train.  And it really makes me wonder how people are comfortable with this kind of action from the federal government. Do we really need every federal agency being able to dispatch Special Forces Teams?  And other than Fox, where are the news teams reporting on this?


If there's a heavily armed militia with 1,500 guys in it threatening to shoot any member of that federal agency if they try to do their job, I'm perfectly fine with the government being able to call in extra muscle.
 
2014-04-15 09:32:56 AM  

MechaPyx: LordJiro: Mrbogey: 
Technically this all Native American land and we should be paying THEM rent.
But I digress. The government makes up whatever rules they want and act like absolute jerks most of the time. His family has been on that land for generations. Then the feds come along and start tacking on fees and screwing with them. I wouldn't feel particularly cooperative either.


But did they own it? So you'd be ok with a large oil company setting up wells, or someone starting a mine on federal land, as long as no one notices for a while?


 

Brick-House: HotWingConspiracy: Brick-House: Brick-House: It sure would be nice to see heavily armed government agents down on the sout

Southern border keeping the flood of people and drugs at bay

Are you blind or something?

No... posting from my phone while on a train.  And it really makes me wonder how people are comfortable with this kind of action from the federal government. Do we really need every federal agency being able to dispatch Special Forces Teams?  And other than Fox, where are the news teams reporting on this?


Well, if they're going to be met with armed militia when they're trying to enforce grazing fees, yes, they apparently do need an armed presence.
 
2014-04-15 09:33:00 AM  

Mrbogey: notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits

Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.


If he does not want to pay it to who it is due who does he want to pay it too? Saying you want to pay your bills, but then claiming you dont owe the bill is not the same thing as wanting to pay your bills....It does not matter if it is "against his interest", he owes the money, stop being a deadbeat. My electric company constantly uses my money against my interest, but I am still required to pay them or I dont get electricity...

That is because all they did was protest. They did not claim the land was theirs to use indefinitely and threaten to kill people who would try to stop them. the OWS also did not break many laws, unlike this guy.
 
2014-04-15 09:33:17 AM  
Typical terrorist tactics.   Use human shields.   But snipers are able to deal with that.  They are lucky they all still have heads today.
 
2014-04-15 09:33:43 AM  

Maud Dib: Cold_Sassy:

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

Holy sh#tballs. I've been assured by Drew that there are no racists on Fark.com, it's only people with different opinions and furthermore comma


It might not be a race thing. Cold_Sassy may just be referring to his/her friends and family.
 
2014-04-15 09:33:50 AM  

Publikwerks: We have a system in place for dealing with government overreach. Yes, armed rebellion can be part of it, but it should be the last step. He hasn't availed himself of it. He hasn't gone to court, hasn't argued his case in front of a judge or a jury of his peers. He has made no effort to right this, because I think he knows he's wrong.


Actually he lost 2 court cases over this.  So he tried to take them to court and the courts have twice said no you have to pay your bills so he then decides armed is better.

What gets me is these people have no problesm firing on jackbooted thugs that are just doing their jobs.  They have families, bills, etc that they need a job and yet everyone is happy to gun them done because of "evil" government when the people they are so scared of will never be outside of a heavily armed building.
 
2014-04-15 09:35:12 AM  
Danger Mouse:  But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?

It's not his actual neighbors that are helping him out. Most of them are pissed at him because his cows keep wandering off his property onto their land  and messing stuff up.
 
2014-04-15 09:35:16 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


Well, it's nice that you can amuse yourself with made-up stories.  Have you considered writing a children's book?
 
2014-04-15 09:35:26 AM  

MechaPyx: His family has been on that land for generations.


Yeah, they just wandered in one day - no government help or support at all, Hey!  Free Land!

If this is their land, then I'm sure they would be willing to deed it and pay back state and federal taxes on it, right?

The forfeited any rights they had because, like the current user, they were more than willing to take advantage of the public lands when it suited them. They sure didn't want to own it and pay taxes on it.
 
2014-04-15 09:36:09 AM  

CRtwenty: Danger Mouse:  But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?

It's not his actual neighbors that are helping him out. Most of them are pissed at him because his cows keep wandering off his property onto their land  and messing stuff up.


Apparently this guy is not only a deadbeat moocher, he also sucks at ranching.
 
2014-04-15 09:36:09 AM  
I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated."

/Shiat just got real.
 
2014-04-15 09:36:14 AM  

Lee451: AdamK: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want

His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.


So that my familily has been using the land I dont own for generations before the current buys bought it means that the current buyer should have no say on keeping me off the land?
 
2014-04-15 09:37:03 AM  
You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.
 
2014-04-15 09:37:17 AM  

Danger Mouse: No it doesn't, maybe I'm missing something here, being on the east coast and not having a good sense of farmers rights or practices. Because, yea, if he didn't pay his grazing fee then sure, what the fark is his beef? Since these lands cross over state boundries I could see it being in the BLM arena. But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?


They aren't?

The folks that were sticking up for him were anti-government militia groups. Not even the ranchers association is sticking up for him. (Which should tell you how in the wrong he is.)
 
2014-04-15 09:37:19 AM  

ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?


I've been known to punch women on occasion.  But then, they were kickboxers and got to punch (and kick) back.  So I'm not sure that that counts.
 
2014-04-15 09:37:41 AM  

Danger Mouse:   But then again, why are his neighbors and fellow ranchers sticking up for him?


I'm not sure the people sticking up for him are his fellow ranchers and neighbors.  In the east, you would call those sticking up for him carpetbaggers.
 
2014-04-15 09:40:22 AM  

someonelse: I heard this morning that there's a beef shortage thanks to the polar vortex and the booming market overseas. The feds should confiscate this welfare cheat's cattle, and sell them to pay for the inconvenience he's caused.


That's what I'm thinking. He says that each cow is worth $1000, and he owes around a million, seems like a good way to start that off.
 
2014-04-15 09:40:51 AM  

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
 
2014-04-15 09:41:19 AM  

IlGreven: Miss Alexandra: This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.

...meanwhile, everyone else is wondering why it's not okay when it's an illegal noncitizen, but it's okay when it's a sovereign citizen who claims he's not an American? (and yes, he has claimed that. Numerous times.)


The point has come up in earlier threads.  He claims he's not a US citizen.  Why not take him up on that.  He's not a citizen, and he doesn't have a visa, therefore he's an illegal alien.  Deport him.
 
2014-04-15 09:41:21 AM  

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


HE'S ON FEDERAL LAND.  Who do you think should handle it?
 
2014-04-15 09:42:20 AM  

WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CATTLE?!

 
2014-04-15 09:42:29 AM  

TNel: HE'S ON FEDERAL LAND. Who do you think should handle it?


MJ12?
 
2014-04-15 09:43:11 AM  

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


Small Government! Big Government!

s2.quickmeme.com
 
2014-04-15 09:45:25 AM  

doglover: Publikwerks: doglover: Publikwerks: people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.

May I ask two serious questions? If it gets too personal don't answer me and if you want to disagree with anything I've posted that's okay but:

Q1: Were you raised in one of the original 13?

Q2: If not, which state do you consider "home"?

1.Kinda - Maine
2. Maine

I am a direct decedent of William Bradford, governor of Plymouth Colony

Okay, cool beans.

I was just curious.

Having grown up in Appalachia, my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans, but with a lot less animosity. There's way too many instances of corrupt officials trying to oppress honest citizens to blindly follow where "Old Glory" leads. At the same time, I can't find a better country than the IDEAL put forth in the Constitution.

In this case in particular: Bundy's wrong on many levels and needs stopped. However the women willing to get in front of their men to prove their retarded point is inspiring to me. I wouldn't come within earshot of a three letter agency for cows, let alone ride their goons' crosshairs. As far as I'm concerned, Bundy should just lose ownership of his cows if they graze on public land. The police should come in, take 'em, and steak 'em. But I have to give mad props to the militia people for realizing they're an ant fighting a giant, ass kicking boot and adopting an actual strategy as opposed to some symbolic bullshiat.



I grew up in Appalachia myself, I am born, raised and still live in NC, and my ancestor is from even deeper in the area, however I completely disagree with you. Your thinking has more to do with your parents then the area. Some people are just fearful of unrealized issues.

also the goal of using the women, who there is no evidence would go along with it, and would have been symbolic bullshiat.
 
2014-04-15 09:45:42 AM  
WHOA BUNDY!

Kelly, get out there
 
2014-04-15 09:45:47 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.


This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.
 
2014-04-15 09:47:07 AM  

FnkyTwn: Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.

This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.


But it feels true, dammit.
 
2014-04-15 09:47:07 AM  

ciberido: lantawa: Reid the rules.  That's all you need to know or do, tax slaves.


[img2.wikia.nocookie.net image 338x383]

I think we need a drinking game.  Everyone take a swig when called "tax slave."


The drinking gods of foolishness smile upon you, my son.  Behold, and bask in the radiance of the pleasure that you give them. But too much taxation with insufficient representation is a thing, my son. Word

i466.photobucket.com

 
2014-04-15 09:47:27 AM  

IlGreven: Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.

No, no it shouldn't. If the owner of your apartment building changes hands, you can't get out of paying rent because you were there before the current owner owned the place.


I think Management Company might be more appropriate then owner in this case.  Ownership has not changed, just some of the management mechanisms.  (no smoking in the lobby?  i'ma stop paying my rents.)
 
2014-04-15 09:47:59 AM  

Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?


You don't see Sean Hannity defending the patriotism of gangbangers? Your average gangbanger doesn't have 400 cows shiatting all over? Nobody on Fark gets a hard on when a gangbanger defies the law?
 
2014-04-15 09:49:49 AM  

doglover: Publikwerks: It was something people knew how to do.

To be fair, if you haven't used a Japanese toilet, using the john seems obvious.

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 500x375]


Depending on which country you're getting posted to, if you join the Peace Corps, they will toilet-train you.  Literally.
 
2014-04-15 09:49:55 AM  

untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions say something that contradicts their own agenda.


This isn't necessarily confirmation bias. I also was willing to ignore the source of this article, until I realized it went counter to their usual spin.

Here's an example that goes the other way: I'm pretty liberal, and voted for President Obama twice. A friend of mine on Facebook (who's also very liberal) recently posted a status complaining about how Obamacare has treated him. I was really interested to hear what he had to say, since I know he's not a knee-jerk conservative who's going to hate Obama for eating crackers. I couldn't make heads or tails of the follow-up comments, unfortunately. But I'd love to hear an honest critique of Obamacare that doesn't come from the cracker-eaters.

Liberals: evidence-based.
 
2014-04-15 09:50:36 AM  
As usual, Chick has the answer.
media.chick.com
media.chick.com
heh-"phony calls"
media.chick.com
 
2014-04-15 09:51:14 AM  
Bundy Ranch 'militia' had strict women-first policy...in case of firefights with federal agency officers

If this is going to be how act, maybe it's time to repeal the 2nd amendment.
 
2014-04-15 09:52:01 AM  

FnkyTwn: Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.

This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.


But wait, there's more!  What about THIS story about THIS solar development project.  Bet you can't prove it incorrect......

http://www.infowars.com/flashback-sen-reid-breaks-ground-for-nevada- so lar-farm-near-bundy-ranch/
 
2014-04-15 09:52:14 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


Hurrrr
 
2014-04-15 09:52:24 AM  

FnkyTwn: Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.

This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.


Remember when everybody lied us into war?
 
2014-04-15 09:52:56 AM  
One thing I've noticed and wondered about regarding conservative types in general - from the "limited government" sane ones through to the wackadoo militia types we have here - is, why do they hate government no matter what it does? Isn't the whole idea of a democratic republic to have a government formed by the people themselves? Why would they hate that? Do they think they themselves are awful at governing or something? It doesn't make sense.

Add to that the fact that this republic setup was put together by the people they revere the most: the holy Founding Fathers (blessed be their names). This is the exact government set up by their heroes and yet, just the mention of the word "government" induces grumbles and eye rolls from them. Do they want no government at all?

My opinion is that conservatives still view this bogeyman "government" as if it were the fictional "tyrannical" British colonial government that the Founding Fathers (blessed be their names) toppled. But the government we have now isn't that at all; it's the one set up by the people who toppled and replaced that. It just makes zero sense.
 
2014-04-15 09:53:29 AM  

untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.


I think the point is that when a group that slants their reporting reports something against their position they're generally more reliable than when they report something that supports their position.
 
2014-04-15 09:54:32 AM  
tavernofterror.com
 
2014-04-15 09:54:44 AM  
Wouldn't have been great if these guys had shown up to OWS? The bankers would still be cleaning out their shorts.
 
2014-04-15 09:55:36 AM  

BSABSVR: Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.

Hurrrr


There is no hurrrr.....only Zuul.
 
2014-04-15 09:56:36 AM  

Brick-House: Do we really need every federal agency being able to dispatch Special Forces Teams?


My friend is a sheriff, and he has to deal with these nutters (Sovereign Citizens) every so often. He has a few officers he's given special training to so they can deal with them without it erupting into a firefight every time. One thing people who don't deal with nut jobs like this don't understand: They really see you as an invader and feel they have free reign to put 10 rounds into you without repercussion. This isn't just about grazing land, license plates, taxes, or any that of shiat. These people make the Civil War South look sane. Sherman might've burned these a$$holes to the ground if he was let loose on them, but the Confederacy would have curb stomped their a$$ just as quickly. These people are the one-half of one percent of extremists and feel they should be able to do what they want, when they want.

One of the best things my friend fought hard to get in the cruisers was the dash cams. A couple of the older cops resisted a bit, they didn't know if it was going to really work or just create another headache. I've seen some dashcam footage of Sovereign Citizens, and these people are so farking insane it's near unbelievable they function at all. Then you realize it's all a sham, most will gladly use that worthless paper from an illegitimate government. Most will demand to be paid in it, even while shouting from the rooftops that it's worthless.

Sovereign citizen movements are usually nothing but extremist libertarian retards that don't want to pay income taxes. The biggest problem is that they tend to react very violently when their shtick is called. No, that homemade license plate won't cut it Emperor Pro Tem Charles Avery, III. Yes you still have to pay property taxes on that 250 acres Peter Griffin.

The worst is the law suits, well unless they shoot you as an invader. For someone who hates the courts so much, most of them seem perfectly happy to file ridiculous law suits agains