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(The New York Times)   The rent is too damn high...and not just in NYC   (nytimes.com ) divider line
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10281 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Apr 2014 at 8:03 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



117 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2014-04-14 04:55:35 PM  
Hey, we've been told for at least the last 2 decades that constantly-increasing real estate prices are the only valid measure of the health of the economy.

What the hell do you expect?
 
2014-04-14 08:07:02 PM  
Makers and takers, right?
 
2014-04-14 08:09:06 PM  
how much you got?
 
2014-04-14 08:09:10 PM  
I wonder what the breaking point is
 
2014-04-14 08:10:18 PM  
Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!
 
2014-04-14 08:14:57 PM  
"Whatever the market will bear" economics. It won't drop as long as there are people who will pay it.
 
2014-04-14 08:16:15 PM  

ElLoco: "Whatever the market will bear" economics. It won't drop as long as there are people who will pay it.


or are so desperate to find a place to live they will pay for overpriced crappy places *cough Austin, Tx cough cough*
 
2014-04-14 08:16:34 PM  

Sliding Carp: Hey, we've been told for at least the last 2 decades that constantly-increasing real estate prices are the only valid measure of the health of the economy.

What the hell do you expect?


But mah equity! How else am I going to retire? I'm gonna sell of my 30 year ol' home and get myself a condo in Tahiti.
 
2014-04-14 08:16:43 PM  
Well if you keep paying it, then yeah, they're going to keep charging you it, duh.

How the fark do people not get the 'life is not fair' aspect of life?

There is no invisible guiding hand of fate, justice or otherwise.

Either move elsewhere, die, or starve yourself so you can afford a swanky place.

Or get a roommate, whateves.
 
2014-04-14 08:16:57 PM  

mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!


I was similarly expecting a mention. It's only going to get worse...
 
2014-04-14 08:17:03 PM  
Well, the good news here is that Flagstaff is no linger the top of the list. Of course, this says it's just rent. But Flag used to be the most expensive, so that's a plus.
 
2014-04-14 08:17:42 PM  

mafiageek1980: or are so desperate to find a place to live they will pay for overpriced crappy places *cough Austin, Tx cough cough*


El Paso and Laredo are worse.

Lots of jobs though.
 
2014-04-14 08:20:51 PM  
Well having a company near a "sexy" location is one thing but if your employees cant afford to live within 2 hours perhaps moving someplace less sexy might be an alternative.... nah, who am I kidding vote yourself some more stock options and have the kids working on the 3 hour commute in to town.
 
2014-04-14 08:24:07 PM  
You want to be a landlord?
It'll just cost your soul.
s16.postimg.org
Sign right here
 
2014-04-14 08:25:14 PM  
So the Times' idea of a representative sample is pretty much

- a major city
- a resort area
- a college town

And that's it.l

mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!


They left out a gigantic swath of the country, as well as a bunch of cities that Harvard studied. Cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Baltimore...Gosh, I can't imagine why.

It would be nice if when a newspaper cites a "comprehensive" study, they write a comprehensive article about it.

The other thing left out of TFA is the role that overly-rigid building codes play. A developer who wants to build smaller, more affordable units is often legally prevented from doing so.

But changing building codes is boring.
 
2014-04-14 08:25:17 PM  
I'd let it go like Trenton. Sure if you're willing to commute, who cares? Granted, I'd rather live in the next county from Albuquerque, you get a lot more home, for less, and it's quiet at night. When we first moved here in 2008, we were looking at homes in the Rio Rancho suburb, but just lookrd at the crime, and no easy way to get to the freeway. So living out here, just one mile to the freeway, and not having to deal with that junk. The biggest problem I'm seeing now, is th retirees are heading out here in droves now. At least the cops here aren't blowing people away like Bernalillo county.
 
2014-04-14 08:25:21 PM  
Rents go up as wages go down. Can't explain that.
 
2014-04-14 08:27:09 PM  
So, San Diego is actually worse than San Francisco when it comes to rent? I'm actually surprised.
 
2014-04-14 08:27:53 PM  
It's those damn hipsters and their gentrification ways.
 
2014-04-14 08:29:31 PM  
I don't know, since I've actually been able to afford to do so, I've often paid out 50% of my income for a nice place to live.  Better that, than living in some shiathole for the sake of what?  A nice car?  Savings that I can't take with me? (childless)  There is something to be said for living near the beach, in a nice area, and with nice folks for neighbors as a bonus.
 
2014-04-14 08:33:29 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-14 08:35:45 PM  

CoonAce: Makers and takers, right?


Yup, and just as you're implying the actual "makers" and "takers" are exactly the opposite of what republicans believe. And they always have been - those who make things, or take care of things, or otherwise make income from labor, have always made MUCH less those who own things (land, factories, whatever). Rentiers, those who make money from rents. We used to call them "lords" and it was primarily land, now we call them "investors" or "job creators" or sometimes "landlord" and they own financial assets primarily (stocks in companies) with real estate as a side dish. Even the "high income" professions like CEO are heavily paid in stock options - in other words, they are gateways into the rentier class.

I'm actually surprised that Honolulu comes out so well, I know there are people making a lot of money here but if anyone knows how to get those jobs, clue me in. I'm not local so I don't have the connections, maybe. I have to admit I haven't been searching high and low, but what I see on craigslist and elsewhere is pretty terrible.
 
2014-04-14 08:43:49 PM  

But hey, at least rich people are doing great.


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-richer-thro u gh-the-recovery/?_r=2
The top 10 percent of earners took more than half of the country's total income in 2012, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting the relevant data a century ago...

But the total income of the top 1 percent surged nearly 20 percent that year. The incomes of the very richest, the 0.01 percent, shot up more than 32 percent.
 
2014-04-14 08:47:30 PM  
They keep doing these studies in cities like San Francisco, New York and Miami.

Nobody just casually lives in those places.  Competition is fierce.
 
2014-04-14 08:49:04 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: How the fark do people not get the 'life is not fair' aspect of life?


No, it's certainly not, and I don't really have an issue with that fact (not that life would care if I did). I do have a problem with some folks' tendency to use that as an excuse to make things even more unfair. Life is shiatty enough without people going out of their way to make it worse.
 
2014-04-14 08:49:31 PM  
If people can't afford it, who is paying for them?

/prices are reasonable here
 
2014-04-14 08:50:29 PM  

JonBuck: So, San Diego is actually worse than San Francisco when it comes to rent? I'm actually surprised.


No its not.

/lives in San Diego
//spends every other week in San Francisco laughing over what my peers pay for rent for exactly the same square footage and enmities I get
///and I get the bonus of not having to live in San Francisco
/of course it depends on what exactly we are measuring - doesn't it?
 
2014-04-14 08:54:20 PM  
I'm paying exactly 30% of my income for my apartment. ( wish I could tolerate living around other people so I didn't have to pay so much $$$ for a place to live, but I just don't have it in me....)

/ did the roommate thing in my 20's....never again....
 
2014-04-14 08:54:41 PM  
You can buy a mansion for like $40000! It's Detroit, but still......
 
2014-04-14 08:56:07 PM  

gingerjet: /of course it depends on what exactly we are measuring - doesn't it?


tfa claims its measuring median rent against median income so San Francisco rent could theoretically be more expensive than San Diego but below San Diego on this measure because the pay is also higher.
 
2014-04-14 08:56:49 PM  

mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!


They are just pushing the poors out to Kyle and Georgetown. But yes, as a man currently living in Austin and who lived in Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, rent is out of reach of the middle class. The only way out is basically enjoy roomates/housemates or live in some really sketchy places with sketchier landlords.

Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.
 
2014-04-14 08:56:50 PM  
30% including utilities actually sounds low.
 
2014-04-14 09:00:51 PM  
It's a terrible situation in my city. Unless you're selling. When I graduated high school in 2002 the average home cost $250,000. I went to school, both a technical diploma and a policy degree. I didn't qualify for students loans so worked 20hrs a week in retail and in the infantry reserves on the weekends. By the time I finished paying my way through college I didn't have a down payment and the average house now cost $450,000. Dozens of square kilometers of suburbs had sprouted up all over the city, many built shoddily, in order to keep up with demand.

Then the crash. Not that many people lost homes thanks to Canadian mortgage lending rules, but spending dropped drastically, leading many boomers to stave off retirement and people of my generation (Y) were left with glass-ceiling entry and intermediate jobs. I had the experience of making 50% of the average Calgarian. Saving in a city this expensive is nearly impossible. Everyone else just carries massive debt, but I live within my means. This means a 950sqft townhouse I rent for $1200 plus all utilities to house my wife and kids and me, and few year old minivan.

After the economy finally stabilized, I now have a much better paying job and slightly better prospects, although the baby boomers are still working. So after all that, I could now buy, but the house prices have jumped again, and the average house is near $450,000. That is a debt I could never realistically pay off in 30 years in this town and in my profession. Therefore, I am very reticent to buy a home at those prices just to lose big on the next crash. I'd rather keep my money and go on vacations and take kids traveling, there's nothing to do here anyway.

Of course, I'm not the only one to be thinking this way, and this has driven up rent prices here too. That and when all those lovely expensive suburbs were going up nobody built higher density rental housing. There was no profit in it at the time compared to the suburbs.

Anyways, I'm not complaining. I have it pretty damn good here but I'm a slave to the system, it's expensive here, but the work is here. I know cause I've been told by over dozen European immigrants I've run into on job sites in the last year. Bloody irishmen.
 
2014-04-14 09:03:10 PM  
Apts in central Houston are either crazy expensive or shiat holes.

There are a few gems here and there, but most newer complexes run $1200 for a 600sqft one bedroom apt. That's easily a house note in the burbs.
 
2014-04-14 09:04:37 PM  

Wessoman: mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!

They are just pushing the poors out to Kyle and Georgetown. But yes, as a man currently living in Austin and who lived in Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, rent is out of reach of the middle class. The only way out is basically enjoy roomates/housemates or live in some really sketchy places with sketchier landlords.

Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.


couldnt have said it better myself

/married to a Los Angelian (sp?)
 
2014-04-14 09:05:03 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: I'm paying exactly 30% of my income for my apartment. ( wish I could tolerate living around other people so I didn't have to pay so much $$$ for a place to live, but I just don't have it in me....)

/ did the roommate thing in my 20's....never again....


The last time I lived with roommates I ended up leaving because one of them was psychotic and had just bought a gun.

Twenty years later I saw a news story where she had been stalking her former neighbors, and ended up in a shootout with the police.

/willing to pay the high rent, and I'm lucky so far, but it's insanely expensive
 
2014-04-14 09:07:27 PM  
FTA :   insatiable demand for luxury condos in Miami, created in part by wealthy Latin Americans


I wonder what the significance of the renters race is as it relates to this article?


Anyhoo...

TFA was pretty much focused on Miami, but nowhere was it mentioned that Florida has no state income tax and their sales tax is only 6%.

Even on an average income, that's got to be worth a couple of months rent right there.
 
2014-04-14 09:07:55 PM  

Wessoman: mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!

They are just pushing the poors out to Kyle and Georgetown. But yes, as a man currently living in Austin and who lived in Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, rent is out of reach of the middle class. The only way out is basically enjoy roomates/housemates or live in some really sketchy places with sketchier landlords.

Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.


#MADSOMAD.

Yeah it's easy to see that Austin is overcrowded, overpriced, and the traffic sucks.

Though, it's all relative. Been here for a year now, and couldn't love it any more than I do.  It took 29 years to get out of my shiathole of small conservative Texas town, and it's within driving distance of family and other friends who I left behind.

I'll take the good with the bad, because the scales tip far in favor of 'the good.'
 
2014-04-14 09:08:10 PM  

CruJones: 30% including utilities actually sounds low.


33% gross just for rent is the affordability point, supposedly.


Been doing almost that (28%), living like a bum, but have an offer accepted on a house that'll cut my monthly dedicated payment by 75%.

It also helps to live where you can still buy a starter home for under 100k.
 
2014-04-14 09:15:02 PM  
Well, I don't feel quite so insane now for spending maybe about 40% of my income to live alone.
 
2014-04-14 09:17:31 PM  

studebaker hoch: They keep doing these studies in cities like San Francisco, New York and Miami.

Nobody just casually lives in those places.  Competition is fierce.


Well, given that there is still public housing in Manhattan and there are still people living below the poverty line in NYC, that's not entirely true.

But the thing is, if you want to be a scumbag, a thief or a junkie in NYC you have to work a lot harder at it than if you live in a smaller city or in rural bumfark.

//I live in Philly and we're seeing an exodus of poor people to smaller towns like York and Reading as the rents are cheaper there and the poor think smaller cities are "safer", cause that's what they've been taught.  Of course, they just end up taking their problems with them,
 
2014-04-14 09:19:56 PM  

star_topology: Wessoman: mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!

They are just pushing the poors out to Kyle and Georgetown. But yes, as a man currently living in Austin and who lived in Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, rent is out of reach of the middle class. The only way out is basically enjoy roomates/housemates or live in some really sketchy places with sketchier landlords.

Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.

#MADSOMAD.

Yeah it's easy to see that Austin is overcrowded, overpriced, and the traffic sucks.

Though, it's all relative. Been here for a year now, and couldn't love it any more than I do.  It took 29 years to get out of my shiathole of small conservative Texas town, and it's within driving distance of family and other friends who I left behind.

I'll take the good with the bad, because the scales tip far in favor of 'the good.'


Yep, but you don't have a clue how awesome the city used to be. BTW--Welcome to Austin. Keep it weird. Seriously.

Case in point---It isn't just the overcrowding. I am from Los Angeles (Moved from LA to Nashville in 2003 and to Austin in 2010) so I am used to crowded spaces. The problem is the people coming to Austin and the way locals are reacting. Old time Austinites who were born and raised here all talk nostalgia, and new Austinites do not understand the flow of the city. Example--New Condos go up next to smaller low rent housing. Now bands in the low rent housing can't practice because the big condo tenants are complaining. Most of the creative color of the city is being tossed out (Unfortunately, by people like you escaping to the only blue spot in the very red texas) because they like the idea of Austin being weird, but not TOO weird... The city becomes gentrified and homogenous, sprawling concrete where one can't tell where Austin ends and Round Rock begins, and the color, the creativity, and the beauty that made Austin great gets lost when Lady Gaga plays Stubbs at SXSW, a showcase for local Austin bands once upon a time...Heck, back in the old days, Holy Wave would probably be the biggest band performing.

So yeah, I am #MADSOMAD. #WHATAREYAGONNADOABOUTITBRO?

After all, from another Austinite:

mafiageek1980: couldnt have said it better myself

/married to a Los Angelian (sp?)


Indeed. So do your part, and KEEP AUSTIN WEIRD.
 
2014-04-14 09:20:18 PM  
Had an empty lot next to me a couple of years ago, when this Yuppie up and bought it. Actually, she moved so fast that the for sale sign went up in the morning and came down by evening.

Then she and her hubby of the time built a small, two bedroom house with an enclosed garage -- to rent out. She started out with the rent 50% higher than the local levels and got it. Since then, she's gone through several renters, keeping the rent high.

I figure she's got over 75% of the mortgage paid off by now.

When the housing boom hit here, rents went up ridiculously high. Quite a few folks who would prefer to rent found it cheaper to get a high risk mortgage and buy or build a new home. Low income families assisted in rent by section 8 found themselves living in houses in bad neighborhoods where the places were mainly held together by termites holding hands.

You would not believe the advertising campaign that went out, suckering low income folks into getting mortgages with little money down, low interest rates and hardly any background check. Quite a few missed that little section in the papers that mentioned ballooning payments.

Now, after the bust, rents are still quite high.
 
2014-04-14 09:20:43 PM  

gingerjet: JonBuck: So, San Diego is actually worse than San Francisco when it comes to rent? I'm actually surprised.

No its not.

/lives in San Diego
//spends every other week in San Francisco laughing over what my peers pay for rent for exactly the same square footage and enmities I get
///and I get the bonus of not having to live in San Francisco
/of course it depends on what exactly we are measuring - doesn't it?


Better weather, cooler people...what's not to like?
 
2014-04-14 09:20:45 PM  
Nobody lives there anymore. It's too expensive.
 
2014-04-14 09:20:45 PM  
Rent is merely the first wave of what happens as assets shifting to the wealthy continues to accelerate.

The well off see an ever expanding "taker" class out there biatching about stuff like this.
 
2014-04-14 09:23:37 PM  
Meh, some people are too lazy to search for a good place. I pay $633 for an 800 sqft apartment in south Tulsa. Gated community, W/D included, etc. Sure I could pay less and live in the ghetto, or get a bigger place with roommates, but I love living with just my cats.
 
2014-04-14 09:26:55 PM  

7th Son of a 7th Son: Meh, some people are too lazy to search for a good place. I pay $633 for an 800 sqft apartment in south Tulsa. Gated community, W/D included, etc. Sure I could pay less and live in the ghetto, or get a bigger place with roommates, but I love living with just my cats.


ha! TRY to find a place NOT in the hood here in Austin at that price! Good luck!
 
2014-04-14 09:30:03 PM  

Gulper Eel: The other thing left out of TFA is the role that overly-rigid building codes play. A developer who wants to build smaller, more affordable units is often legally prevented from doing so.


That's an interesting angle.

A lot of the developers cry that if they can't build McMansions and charge $320K+, they can't make any money.

This is truly a screwed-up market.
 
2014-04-14 09:32:47 PM  
www.michaeljfox.org

The part in blue wants to know what you all are biatching about.
 
2014-04-14 09:40:16 PM  

zjoik: I wonder what the breaking point is


About 6mm to the brain side of your greedy landlord's skull
 
2014-04-14 09:40:45 PM  
Speculators.  Once they can't fill anyone into those apartments, the rates will come crashing down.
 
2014-04-14 09:41:05 PM  

mafiageek1980: 7th Son of a 7th Son: Meh, some people are too lazy to search for a good place. I pay $633 for an 800 sqft apartment in south Tulsa. Gated community, W/D included, etc. Sure I could pay less and live in the ghetto, or get a bigger place with roommates, but I love living with just my cats.

ha! TRY to find a place NOT in the hood here in Austin at that price! Good luck!


Like I said, you would have to live in Kyle or Georgetown for that. Pushing the poors out, make way for boring yuppies.
 
2014-04-14 09:41:47 PM  

Rik01: You would not believe the advertising campaign that went out, suckering low income folks into getting mortgages with little money down, low interest rates and hardly any background check. Quite a few missed that little section in the papers that mentioned ballooning payments.

Now, after the bust, rents are still quite high.


Because there was no national push to readjust mortgages, rents stayed high because people are still paying mortgages on the high prices properties sold for.  I live in a solid neighborhood, but the two houses owned by speculator both went into foreclosure because that was the only way out for the owners.

Also, in many parts of the country (especially here in the NE) housing prices bounced back really quickly, so there was never really a correction to the rental market.  Given how many new apartments are being added to the local stock, I suspect that correction is coming in the near future.
 
2014-04-14 09:42:27 PM  

Wessoman: star_topology: Wessoman: mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!

They are just pushing the poors out to Kyle and Georgetown. But yes, as a man currently living in Austin and who lived in Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, rent is out of reach of the middle class. The only way out is basically enjoy roomates/housemates or live in some really sketchy places with sketchier landlords.

Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.

#MADSOMAD.

Yeah it's easy to see that Austin is overcrowded, overpriced, and the traffic sucks.

Though, it's all relative. Been here for a year now, and couldn't love it any more than I do.  It took 29 years to get out of my shiathole of small conservative Texas town, and it's within driving distance of family and other friends who I left behind.

I'll take the good with the bad, because the scales tip far in favor of 'the good.'

Yep, but you don't have a clue how awesome the city used to be. BTW--Welcome to Austin. Keep it weird. Seriously.


Thank you. I think.  I'll do my best to keep it weird, but I'm just glad to be in a place where I feel like I can do my thing.

I'm a middle-class guy who came here with the job opportunity that I thought I'd never get. Wife and I (no kids, woot!) thought we were stuck in Bumfark,TX forever.  I'm very grateful that I got here with a little luck and some bootstrappiness and landed a good job.  I can't explain how this phenomenon works, but it just does. Career advancement opportunities and just more stuff to do in the city on the whole. Money is a secondary motivator. I ended up negotiating a 10% raise over my previous job, but I know my employer knew that I had a dead-end job and could low-ball me a bit, but I'm not sure I cared--If I didn't take the opportunity in a bigger city, it may have never came. Plus, being here can only going to lead to potentially bigger opportunities. Pascal's Wager, I suppose.

I ended up giving you far more of my life story than I wanted, but that's my perspective.

In your case, you've lived in large cities your whole life, and i hear folks complain all the time about people from California "ruining" Austin, when they fled a shiatty economy and, at first glance, the problems that are beginning to plague Austin, is that correct?
 
2014-04-14 09:45:05 PM  
@Marine1 - Some parts of the midwest are getting bad or going up quickly.  Parts of ND are getting crazy right now because of the energy boom there.

  I live in Verona, WI (suburb of Madison), my rent is going from $1175 to $1240 this summer, for a 2 bedroom/1.75 bath.  In addition, we're now getting charged quarterly for water.  I'm strongly considering cashing in my SARs at work to make the down payment on a house, as a I can get a house only a few miles away in Madison with only 10% down and it would cost me less (especially if I take in a roommate)
 I can go month-to-month, but then its $1275 a month and my landlord restricts me from moving out  only from February through August, with 60 day notice, which sort of defeats the purpose of month to month when only half the year is available to leave.
     I know rent is going up here for two reasons though 1) my employer is based here and constantly growing (10-20% every year for more than the last 10 years) and 2) a bunch of newer apartments have opened that are about the same square footage and are charging more.
 
2014-04-14 09:47:42 PM  
Probably because in the past 20 years, this country kept along building shiatty suburban subdivisions and condos, but few apartments or mixed-use semi-urban spaces.

/the last item is a large part why the googlers are taking over neighborhoods wholescale in SF
//ain't no techies wanting to live the suburban cul-de-sac lifestyle, yet that's the only housing paradigm outside of SF
 
2014-04-14 09:49:32 PM  

Marine1: The part in blue wants to know what you all are biatching about.


Actually, Michigan and Illinois were in the most troubled category in the Harvard report due to the percentage of very low income renters. One major factor cited in the report was the cost of energy, as the midwest outside of Chicago lacks any real amount of public transit that problem will continue to grow as fossil fuels become more scarce and hence expensive.
 
2014-04-14 09:51:40 PM  

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: @Marine1 - Some parts of the midwest are getting bad or going up quickly.  Parts of ND are getting crazy right now because of the energy boom there.

  I live in Verona, WI (suburb of Madison), my rent is going from $1175 to $1240 this summer, for a 2 bedroom/1.75 bath.  In addition, we're now getting charged quarterly for water.  I'm strongly considering cashing in my SARs at work to make the down payment on a house, as a I can get a house only a few miles away in Madison with only 10% down and it would cost me less (especially if I take in a roommate)
 I can go month-to-month, but then its $1275 a month and my landlord restricts me from moving out  only from February through August, with 60 day notice, which sort of defeats the purpose of month to month when only half the year is available to leave.
     I know rent is going up here for two reasons though 1) my employer is based here and constantly growing (10-20% every year for more than the last 10 years) and 2) a bunch of newer apartments have opened that are about the same square footage and are charging more.


Hey man, if that gets you into home, go for it.
 
2014-04-14 09:52:13 PM  
Eventually the rent will become so damn high that vacancies will rise again, and prices will have to come down.  The cycle will then start over because we don't know any better and live in a Money Now, fark Tomorrow system.
 
2014-04-14 09:54:00 PM  
Yeah, I know. Paying $625 a month for my three bedroom, two bath house on an oversized lot next to a school and a fire station is just unbearable. Of course, this is in small town, OK. so I guess I'll just have to deal with it. Did I mention that my mechanic's shop is just around the corner? My electrician is across the street, next to the day-care. The grocery store and the minor emergency facility are two blocks up.

Wait, what was I complaining about?
 
2014-04-14 09:59:30 PM  

star_topology: In your case, you've lived in large cities your whole life, and i hear folks complain all the time about people from California "ruining" Austin, when they fled a shiatty economy and, at first glance, the problems that are beginning to plague Austin, is that correct?


The "People from California ruining Austin" meme is a bit old. It's usually a codeword for "I don't want those weird people who may smoke weed and tolerate gays moving to MY city". But what IS ruining Austin is Yuppies--Young urban professionals (Many from California, of course, but mostly from other places in Texas, and a lot from New York, Chicago, and Nashville) who like the job opportunities that Austin brings and it's easygoing people, but call the cops when parties get too loud and seek to gentrify the city into something that it isn't. They are the same people who hate all the homeless dragrats but are more than happy to get puking drunk and piss all over 6th street, they are the same people who buy giant condos and throw big social parties but file noise complaints when the local club hosts Ringo Deathstarr. THOSE people.

Personally, I love Los Angeles, but I understand why people hate it. West of La Brea Blvd, there is nothing of value in Los Angeles besides the beaches. East of La Brea is still the best city in California. It's funny to hear people biatch about LA, and I ask what part they live in, they say things like "North Hollywood", "Manhattan Beach" or "Santa Monica", in which case I can never contain my laughter. There is plenty of awesome in Los Angeles, but you need to find it for yourself. You can still find some not-unreasonable rent in LA. But you're aren't living west of La Brea. No way.

In my life, I have been to Austin 5 times before I settled here 4 years ago, my first time was 1991 and my last time was 2008. I've seen the city change a lot, in many ways for the better, in a lot of ways worse. My mantra is that I love that Austin is getting big, but a lot of the charm that makes Austin inherently cool is fading incredibly fast. Austin used to be a college town/music city, and was home to many bohemian, creative types. Having that paradigm replaced by workaholic yuppies that get up at 6am and work 12 hours at DiqSuq computers all the time doesn't exactly mesh well. It's oppressive, like the gentrification of Berkeley CA in the 80's. In the end, we all end up boring. Just like Berkeley.
 
2014-04-14 10:00:08 PM  

generallyso: But hey, at least rich people are doing great.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-richer-thro u gh-the-recovery/?_r=2
The top 10 percent of earners took more than half of the country's total income in 2012, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting the relevant data a century ago...

But the total income of the top 1 percent surged nearly 20 percent that year. The incomes of the very richest, the 0.01 percent, shot up more than 32 percent.


Cause then it can trickle down!
 
2014-04-14 10:01:38 PM  

Pattuq: Eventually the rent will become so damn high that vacancies will rise again, and prices will have to come down.  The cycle will then start over because we don't know any better and live in a Money Now, fark Tomorrow system.


In the meantime, all the cool and colorful people that made the place you live where you actually wanted to live move away because of high rent, making the place boring.
 
2014-04-14 10:02:17 PM  

shtychkn: generallyso: But hey, at least rich people are doing great.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-richer-thro u gh-the-recovery/?_r=2
The top 10 percent of earners took more than half of the country's total income in 2012, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting the relevant data a century ago...

But the total income of the top 1 percent surged nearly 20 percent that year. The incomes of the very richest, the 0.01 percent, shot up more than 32 percent.

Cause then it can trickle down!


Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.
 
2014-04-14 10:05:48 PM  
The cost of rent, or a house, doesn't matter as much as the percentage of your income.

If the cost of rent is over 50% of your income, you're stretching it.

If the cost of a house is many times your annual income, you need to think about something less.

Other than that ratio, the actual dollar amount in pretty meaningless.

/what you can afford is based on what you earn
//economics is hard?
 
2014-04-14 10:09:04 PM  

germ78: Probably because in the past 20 years, this country kept along building shiatty suburban subdivisions and condos, but few apartments or mixed-use semi-urban spaces.


The explanation I've heard as to why apartment construction nose dived was the 1986 tax law rewrite that got rid of the accelerated depreciation tax credit (you could depreciate a buildings entire value over some 5 years, instead of 30, showing a yearly loss on paper while still making a nice profit).

This made rental properties a far less attractive investment for the big players and the money for new construction of mid range apartment buildings quickly dried up.
 
2014-04-14 10:15:51 PM  

Thingster: shtychkn: generallyso: But hey, at least rich people are doing great.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-richer-thro u gh-the-recovery/?_r=2
The top 10 percent of earners took more than half of the country's total income in 2012, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting the relevant data a century ago...

But the total income of the top 1 percent surged nearly 20 percent that year. The incomes of the very richest, the 0.01 percent, shot up more than 32 percent.

Cause then it can trickle down!

Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.


It's Reaganomics!
 
2014-04-14 10:29:14 PM  
When I was looking for a place to live last year, I looked up the cost of renting vs buying a house, and with real estate prices and interest as low as they are, renting made absolutely no sense at all, the difference in cost was negligible at best, and considering I don't plan on moving any time soon, the decision was a no brainer.
 
2014-04-14 10:29:29 PM  
generallyso: The top 10 percent of earners took more than half of the country's total income in 2012, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting the relevant data a century ago...

But the total income of the top 1 percent surged nearly 20 percent that year. The incomes of the very richest, the 0.01 percent, shot up more than 32 percent.

shtychkn: Cause then it can trickle down!


I think trickle up economics is what we have today.
 
2014-04-14 10:30:33 PM  

Ex-Texan: I'd let it go like Trenton. Sure if you're willing to commute, who cares? Granted, I'd rather live in the next county from Albuquerque, you get a lot more home, for less, and it's quiet at night. When we first moved here in 2008, we were looking at homes in the Rio Rancho suburb, but just lookrd at the crime, and no easy way to get to the freeway. So living out here, just one mile to the freeway, and not having to deal with that junk. The biggest problem I'm seeing now, is th retirees are heading out here in droves now. At least the cops here aren't blowing people away like Bernalillo county.


I'm a Rio Ranchoid since 06. Distance to the freeway does stink. Coyotes are always trying to eat our animals. Crime is way lower than anywhere south of I40 though, and the neighbors are great, but half are retired red-staters . It is actually kind of nice since they are always home, always planting trees, fixing up their property, and watching out for me and my family. Rent prices were pretty reasonable when we first moved here, but then we got jobs and had a house built in the same area. The house payment is only $200 more than the rent was. Home ownership isn't for everyone though.
 
2014-04-14 10:34:28 PM  

fusillade762: Rents go up as wages go down. Can't explain that.


So the concept of percentage of income, which is the whole point of TFA, is completely lost on you, I see.
 
2014-04-14 10:37:04 PM  
Arturo Breton, a 37-year-old waiter in Miami Beach, said that after years living on his own, he was joining forces with a roommate who works as a manager at J. C. Penney. "I've come down to the conclusion that in this country, it's easier for two people to pay the rent than for one person," he said.


I'm pretty sure that's not isolated to just this country, smart guy.
 
2014-04-14 10:42:20 PM  

acad1228: Yeah, I know. Paying $625 a month for my three bedroom, two bath house on an oversized lot next to a school and a fire station is just unbearable. Of course, this is in small town, OK. so I guess I'll just have to deal with it. Did I mention that my mechanic's shop is just around the corner? My electrician is across the street, next to the day-care. The grocery store and the minor emergency facility are two blocks up.

Wait, what was I complaining about?



I believe you were saying you were stuck in small town OK.
 
2014-04-14 10:47:23 PM  
I am surprised Seattle wasn't on the list.
 
2014-04-14 10:48:59 PM  

netcentric: acad1228: Yeah, I know. Paying $625 a month for my three bedroom, two bath house on an oversized lot next to a school and a fire station is just unbearable. Of course, this is in small town, OK. so I guess I'll just have to deal with it. Did I mention that my mechanic's shop is just around the corner? My electrician is across the street, next to the day-care. The grocery store and the minor emergency facility are two blocks up.

Wait, what was I complaining about?


I believe you were saying you were stuck in small town OK.


Stuck? Not really. You can't really be stuck when getting away from it all means driving a half hour in any direction that doesn't take you into Tulsa.
 
2014-04-14 10:51:37 PM  
My rent just went up. I had two choices : a one year lease where my rent went up $45 a month or a six month lease where my rent goes up $75 a month. Not happy about it.
 
2014-04-14 10:55:26 PM  

fusillade762: Rents go up as wages go down. Can't explain that.


this. until...snap.
 
2014-04-14 10:56:44 PM  

spman: When I was looking for a place to live last year, I looked up the cost of renting vs buying a house, and with real estate prices and interest as low as they are, renting made absolutely no sense at all, the difference in cost was negligible at best, and considering I don't plan on moving any time soon, the decision was a no brainer.


That's the key. Who's going to buy a house when they can't even be sure they'll have a job in 6 months? Things move too quickly to tie yourself down.
 
2014-04-14 10:57:50 PM  

netcentric: acad1228: Yeah, I know. Paying $625 a month for my three bedroom, two bath house on an oversized lot next to a school and a fire station is just unbearable. Of course, this is in small town, OK. so I guess I'll just have to deal with it. Did I mention that my mechanic's shop is just around the corner? My electrician is across the street, next to the day-care. The grocery store and the minor emergency facility are two blocks up.

Wait, what was I complaining about?


I believe you were saying you were stuck in small town OK.


In an environment that' he's perfectly happy with.
 
2014-04-14 11:01:04 PM  

Wessoman: by workaholic yuppies that get up at 6am and work 12 hours at DiqSuq computers all the time doesn't exactly mesh well.


Yeah, I work in IT, and an in the good ol' U.S. of A, working 12 hours a day (in any industry) is "how you get ahead" but I'm with a company that values the 5-9 just as much as the 9-5. Perhaps I'm naive.

Wessoman: My mantra is that I love that Austin is getting big, but a lot of the charm that makes Austin inherently cool is fading incredibly fast.


Isn't that what happens to anything that gets "big" or popular?

Wessoman: In the end, we all end up boring. Just like Berkeley.


True words.
 
2014-04-14 11:03:28 PM  
Meh- in OK rent is controlled by what section 8 will pay. Here- it is near 650-700 a month.. so a nice place costs 800-1000 a month. Not a big deal until you realize the average income in the rural parts of the state is near 18k/year and families make less than 40k take home a year... it is an issue
 
2014-04-14 11:03:37 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Capo Del Bandito: How the fark do people not get the 'life is not fair' aspect of life?

No, it's certainly not, and I don't really have an issue with that fact (not that life would care if I did). I do have a problem with some folks' tendency to use that as an excuse to make things even more unfair. Life is shiatty enough without people going out of their way to make it worse.


THIS^^^
 
2014-04-14 11:04:08 PM  
My rent's absurd, but the location is great, so I can't complain too much.  I'd love to save some money, but that would require roommates and/or a shiattier location (probably a combo of both), so I'll stick with paying a little too much to live close enough to exactly where I want.

I could think of locations that would be even better, but they're even more expensive than where I'm at.  Oh well.
 
2014-04-14 11:09:21 PM  

evil saltine: spman: When I was looking for a place to live last year, I looked up the cost of renting vs buying a house, and with real estate prices and interest as low as they are, renting made absolutely no sense at all, the difference in cost was negligible at best, and considering I don't plan on moving any time soon, the decision was a no brainer.

That's the key. Who's going to buy a house when they can't even be sure they'll have a job in 6 months? Things move too quickly to tie yourself down.


Yeah the fact that so many people are still on edge about their jobs makes people pretty hesitant to pay for a house.
 
2014-04-14 11:14:56 PM  
Not to worry. The boomers will be shedding volumes of real estate within 10 years.
 
2014-04-14 11:22:15 PM  

Wessoman: star_topology: In your case, you've lived in large cities your whole life, and i hear folks complain all the time about people from California "ruining" Austin, when they fled a shiatty economy and, at first glance, the problems that are beginning to plague Austin, is that correct?

The "People from California ruining Austin" meme is a bit old. It's usually a codeword for "I don't want those weird people who may smoke weed and tolerate gays moving to MY city". But what IS ruining Austin is Yuppies--Young urban professionals (Many from California, of course, but mostly from other places in Texas, and a lot from New York, Chicago, and Nashville) who like the job opportunities that Austin brings and it's easygoing people, but call the cops when parties get too loud and seek to gentrify the city into something that it isn't. They are the same people who hate all the homeless dragrats but are more than happy to get puking drunk and piss all over 6th street, they are the same people who buy giant condos and throw big social parties but file noise complaints when the local club hosts Ringo Deathstarr. THOSE people.

Personally, I love Los Angeles, but I understand why people hate it. West of La Brea Blvd, there is nothing of value in Los Angeles besides the beaches. East of La Brea is still the best city in California. It's funny to hear people biatch about LA, and I ask what part they live in, they say things like "North Hollywood", "Manhattan Beach" or "Santa Monica", in which case I can never contain my laughter. There is plenty of awesome in Los Angeles, but you need to find it for yourself. You can still find some not-unreasonable rent in LA. But you're aren't living west of La Brea. No way.

In my life, I have been to Austin 5 times before I settled here 4 years ago, my first time was 1991 and my last time was 2008. I've seen the city change a lot, in many ways for the better, in a lot of ways worse. My mantra is that I love that Austin is getting big, but a lot of t ...


I'll second this. I wouldn't put the blame entirely on "California" either. But I also wouldn't single out yuppies. The problem is people from other large cities who bring their bad habits-- particularly their impatience. Austin is not at all laid-back any more. It's rapidly becoming another city when you lay on your horn when someone doesn't smoke her tires when the light turns green.

You *can* find plenty of laid-back people from all over the country-- Including TX, which is good. But try driving somewhere at 2:00-PM on a weekday and make note of how stressed and pissed the driving is. It's a minority of people I imagine. But it's readily observable. It's like the Hollywood rush: People are moving here to make it big in business, career, music, etc. And they'll step all over anyone in their paths to do it.

Just imagine having the calmness of your day ruined by an aggressive sociopath in a BMW or Lexus once or twice a day. Now extrapolate that sort of behavior to all other aspects of life. That's Austin. It's not as bad as many larger cities, but it's getting there.

By comparison, I've found Atlanta to be much more laid-back.
 
2014-04-14 11:23:35 PM  

4seasons85!: Yeah the fact that so many people are still on edge about their jobs makes people pretty hesitant to pay for a house.


Yup... not like the old days before my father retired... worked for the same company for 35 years... that sh*t is over.
 
2014-04-14 11:27:21 PM  

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: BMW or Lexus



Add "Audi" to the list as well.

I actually think drivers here are actually more CAUTIOUS than anything, except for all the sociopaths in luxury assault vehicles, in which case I think you are 100% right.
 
2014-04-14 11:27:26 PM  
This happens in every nation. The return to land (the broad word for a naturally or socially made monopoly) is rent. Rent is surplus. Rent always rises faster than the return to capital and labor. Sadly, most economist have neither the brains nor balls to point this out. Instead we get economic whaarrbbll like "more austerity" and "more spending." fark mankind.
 
2014-04-14 11:27:40 PM  

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: I'll second this. I wouldn't put the blame entirely on "California" either. But I also wouldn't single out yuppies. The problem is people from other large cities who bring their bad habits-- particularly their impatience. Austin is not at all laid-back any more. It's rapidly becoming another city when you lay on your horn when someone doesn't smoke her tires when the light turns green.


Thirded. OK grad student working a blue collar job. This state is a loss. Most of my contemporaries are leaving for austin or denver.
 
2014-04-14 11:27:52 PM  

star_topology: Yeah, I work in IT, and an in the good ol' U.S. of A, working 12 hours a day (in any industry) is "how you get ahead" but I'm with a company that values the 5-9 just as much as the 9-5. Perhaps I'm naive.


Luckily, many of the software companies in Austin are like that, but most aren't. So you get a lot of people who are boring with more money, displacing the very reason they moved to Austin. Like I said, this happened in Berkeley in the 80's. This doesn't happen to every place that becomes big or popular (Good example--Santa Cruz is a lot more expensive but now people just housemate it to death as opposed to gentrifying the city), but it is happening in Austin. Making the situation worse is that locals, who fear all expansion thanks to waves of new population, don't want to build anything for Austin- so the road infrastructure and Public Transportation are laughable. This limits mobility to find work and increases the housing prices (In LA, I worked in many places and lived in many places, I could always find work because, amazing as it may seem, the transportation infrastructure was not as bad as it is currently in Austin), and even worse, leads to suburban sprawl (As you see in Round Rock to a nauseating degree).
 
2014-04-14 11:35:14 PM  

Wasn't most of the last "recovery" in real estate because of hedge funds snapping up property with cash beating out families?

Link

I assume they wish to retain a positive cash flow while awaiting a rebound in prices? So they've got to raise rents. Less people who can afford to rent or buy homes squeezes the rental markets. The rich get richer, and the middle class joins the poor.

I'm no economist, but when the top 20% control 85%+ of a nations wealth there just can't be much for the rest of us to scrabble over.
 
2014-04-14 11:38:09 PM  

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: I'll second this. I wouldn't put the blame entirely on "California" either. But I also wouldn't single out yuppies. The problem is people from other large cities who bring their bad habits-- particularly their impatience. Austin is not at all laid-back any more. It's rapidly becoming another city when you lay on your horn when someone doesn't smoke her tires when the light turns green.

You *can* find plenty of laid-back people from all over the country-- Including TX, which is good. But try driving somewhere at 2:00-PM on a weekday and make note of how stressed and pissed the driving is. It's a minority of people I imagine. But it's readily observable. It's like the Hollywood rush: People are moving here to make it big in business, career, music, etc. And they'll step all over anyone in their paths to do it.

Just imagine having the calmness of your day ruined by an aggressive sociopath in a BMW or Lexus once or twice a day. Now extrapolate that sort of behavior to all other aspects of life. That's Austin. It's not as bad as many larger cities, but it's getting there.

By comparison, I've found Atlanta to be much more laid-back.


I agree--I shouldn't say Yuppies..I guess it's basically the rat-racer workaholic types. A lot of the tech companies bring in this mentality and it's part of the problem, which is why the commute between Round Rock and Tech Ridge is perhaps the most dangerous drive in America. What makes Austin a lot worse is that these Sociopaths that you refer to also drink and party hard---Clubs are raising their prices on drinks, venues become even more exclusive, and smaller clubs around condos and apartments get shut down. Heck, one of my favorite little clothing stores on 1st (The street I live off of), New Brohemia, got trashed because some drunk crashed his Mercedes Benz into it at 3am, and simply walked away from his wreckage. Seriously.

Atlanta is a good example how a town can expand and still be laid back, and that's a good thing. Right now, Austin is doing it wrong. It has to trump up what makes our city great (Let's make SXSW a showcase for Austin bands again, OKAY?), AND build infrastructure because it IS growing faster than ever.
 
2014-04-14 11:43:01 PM  
If it's gross income then I'm not doing as badly as I thought I was.

I'm looking at apartments right now and to be within spitting distance of my workplace is going to put me at about 34%. I could live further away and bring it down to 27%, but that would cost me 5% in gas -- not worth it for the extra hour or more per day I would have to sit in traffic. I don't even want to think about how far I would have to drive to get to a place where I could afford to own anything (and how shiatty of an area it would be).

Luckily, I have no debt, otherwise I'd be looking for roommates and train schedules... and I'm not getting any younger. In retrospect, living in NYC was not that bad, I was at 19% at the time, but I took an awful lot of $25-30 cab rides home from work when I was too drunk/tired/both to spend an hour-fifteen or -thirty on subways and busses in the middle of the night. The alternative was a 45-minute bike ride, which is also no fun when you're drunk and have been tending bar for 10-14 hours. And the coke weren't cheap neither!
 
2014-04-14 11:51:48 PM  

Wessoman: Keep Austin Weird


Keep in mind gentle readers, Austin's idea of "keeping it weird" is copying what they see on TV about California and NYC and encouraging a homeless alcoholic drag queen drink himself to death because it was SO FUNNY how said homeless alcoholic drag queen ran for mayor every few years.  Hey, he died for our entertainment at least, that was pretty weird and like so groovy, right man?

//lived their 7 years
//fark that city
 
2014-04-15 12:17:59 AM  
Cities today need to come up with better ways to keep housing costs down. You don't get much of a community in your neighborhood if everyone is constantly getting priced out.
 
2014-04-15 12:20:24 AM  

rewind2846: 4seasons85!: Yeah the fact that so many people are still on edge about their jobs makes people pretty hesitant to pay for a house.

Yup... not like the old days before my father retired... worked for the same company for 35 years... that sh*t is over.


I planned to stay with this company I am working for after graduation, but they are enacting changes that make it seem like they are going to get rid of everyone except very basic people. Every few months they are announcing layoffs. I do not like the way I have been treated in the last year. It is sad because I have the most experience and I can contribute a lot. I know a lot of companies are doing this right now too. It's just very sad.
 
2014-04-15 12:23:57 AM  

Shades: Wessoman: Keep Austin Weird

Keep in mind gentle readers, Austin's idea of "keeping it weird" is copying what they see on TV about California and NYC and encouraging a homeless alcoholic drag queen drink himself to death because it was SO FUNNY how said homeless alcoholic drag queen ran for mayor every few years.  Hey, he died for our entertainment at least, that was pretty weird and like so groovy, right man?

//lived their 7 years
//fark that city


Lived their? Their what?

From what I see, looks as if you wasted 7 years of your life because you didn't exactly get the community that is Austin. But I do recommend Berkeley for ya. You can get up at 5am every morning, have the most pedestrian, uncreative, boring life imaginable, rat race on freeways and the whole shebang, all the while at the same time smugly proclaim that you live in the most enlightened city in America. Seems like your speed. Or maybe Louisville KY?

For the record, "Keeping Austin Weird" means "Keep Austin's rent cheap enough so I can work at a place like Homeslice and still play in a band and maybe smoke bad weed from time to time.". Having been to both NY and LA, Austin isn't really trying to emulate either city, but a lot of former residents of those cities are bringing their bad habits with you.
 
2014-04-15 12:27:50 AM  

Sliding Carp: Hey, we've been told for at least the last 2 decades that constantly-increasing real estate prices are the only valid measure of the health of the economy.


We've also been told that inflation has been near zero for that same time, so anyone who says that prices of things like food, rent, and utilities are rising relative to income must be mistaken.
 
2014-04-15 01:39:24 AM  

mafiageek1980: ElLoco: "Whatever the market will bear" economics. It won't drop as long as there are people who will pay it.

or are so desperate to find a place to live they will pay for overpriced crappy places *cough Austin, Tx cough cough*


Someone has never been to North Carolina. 30% higher than Austin's rent in a state with no semblance of walkability or public transit. You must own a car and it must work all the time. Plus every real estate agent is an asshole (won't answer the phone, won't answer email, will let you apply for places they rented yesterday, one actually told me to go drive past the house myself because he couldn't be arsed to come by and let me in) and there's an abundance of 3br/1ba but no 2/2s.

Also all the rooms are inexplicably tiny. They just love walls here. A 3 or 4 bedroom is the size of a 2 bedroom in Texas. My kitchen is the biggest room in my apartment. Pretty quiet here, though. I hated the loud music capital of the world.
 
2014-04-15 01:42:53 AM  
Lived in Austin for 25 years, but when I found out about artisinal ice, I decided it was just about time to start planning my exit.   It's not my city anymore.    I'll hand the keys over to the next wave of 20 somethings.    Take care of her, she was good to me for a long time.
 
2014-04-15 01:52:25 AM  

Wessoman: Old time Austinites who were born and raised here all talk nostalgia, and new Austinites do not understand the flow of the city.


"Old Austinites" have been saying that for 30 years. The centralized condos may be pricey and "lack character" and all that shiat, but they're superior to the shiatty suburban growth the city's used to. A high rise is better than another Steiner Ranch.
 
2014-04-15 01:54:42 AM  
Got a deal on my house, bought when the market was at it lowest with an interest rate of 3.5 percent. New house that had never been lived in, three car garage and a pool to boot! It was the last one built in the neighborhood but both past perspective buyers financing fell through. Gobbled up a 2600 square foot house all for my lonesome for only 165k when this same house minus the pool was selling for over 400k just 4 years prior to my purchasing it.

Market has rebounded some, much smaller house across the street with no pool and very few of the upgrades mine has sold last week for 237k so figure if I decide to relocate to another region for work in the next year I should do fairly well.
 
2014-04-15 02:47:28 AM  
I'm kind of annoyed at the expansion San Antonio and Austin are doing. Keep your shiat in Austin, Austin. I already am sick of New Braunfels kind of disappearing into a "Where is it?" because it was surrounded by now where to "Where is it?" because of all the same shiat repeating itself every five miles.  Then slowly repeating itself on the way toward Austin.
 
2014-04-15 03:33:29 AM  

moothemagiccow: Wessoman: Old time Austinites who were born and raised here all talk nostalgia, and new Austinites do not understand the flow of the city.

"Old Austinites" have been saying that for 30 years. The centralized condos may be pricey and "lack character" and all that shiat, but they're superior to the shiatty suburban growth the city's used to. A high rise is better than another Steiner Ranch.


You missed the point entirely. It isn't exactly that condos are being built, that's an "Old Austinite" argument, and yes, they have been saying that for 30 years. It's just the type of people moving into them nowadays, and in numbers greater than ever.
 
2014-04-15 04:46:08 AM  

Wessoman: Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.


That has got to be the most accurate description of Austin I've ever had the please to read!  Newsletter, etc.

/ Moved to Austin well over a decade ago
// Commuted up 360 daily over the bridge
/// Got a home office and it became much more enjoyable
//// Still got out 5 years ago
// And F the big D
 
2014-04-15 06:34:32 AM  

Wessoman: For the record, "Keeping Austin Weird" means "Keep Austin's rent cheap enough so I can work at a place like Homeslice and still play in a band and maybe smoke bad weed from time to time.". Having been to both NY and LA, Austin isn't really trying to emulate either city, but a lot of former residents of those cities are bringing their bad habits with you.


you've lived in Austin for three years...and moved here from LA. Are you posting all this crap ironically?
 
2014-04-15 08:32:48 AM  

JungleBoogie: generallyso: The top 10 percent of earners took more than half of the country's total income in 2012, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting the relevant data a century ago...

But the total income of the top 1 percent surged nearly 20 percent that year. The incomes of the very richest, the 0.01 percent, shot up more than 32 percent.

shtychkn: Cause then it can trickle down!

I think trickle up economics is what we have today.


Trickle up would work.

Give Money to poor people and they will give it to the Rich.
 
2014-04-15 10:35:52 AM  
Here's a simple way to reduce rents:

Eliminate all zoning that restricts density, especially in housing.  Eliminate much of the red tape in the process of getting a building permit.

This will increase supply, which will naturally decrease prices if demand is stable.
 
2014-04-15 10:38:38 AM  

dropdfun: Got a deal on my house, bought when the market was at it lowest with an interest rate of 3.5 percent. New house that had never been lived in, three car garage and a pool to boot! It was the last one built in the neighborhood but both past perspective buyers financing fell through. Gobbled up a 2600 square foot house all for my lonesome for only 165k when this same house minus the pool was selling for over 400k just 4 years prior to my purchasing it.

Market has rebounded some, much smaller house across the street with no pool and very few of the upgrades mine has sold last week for 237k so figure if I decide to relocate to another region for work in the next year I should do fairly well.


I did the same.  I bought a house in 2009 for $150k that sold in 2005 for $400k.  Even got a tax break to do so.  I figure it's now worth at least 50% more than I paid for it, maybe 100% more (which would still be less than the previous sale, of course).
 
2014-04-15 10:46:05 AM  

Talondel: Sliding Carp: Hey, we've been told for at least the last 2 decades that constantly-increasing real estate prices are the only valid measure of the health of the economy.

We've also been told that inflation has been near zero for that same time, so anyone who says that prices of things like food, rent, and utilities are rising relative to income must be mistaken.


Inflation has been low.  We had actual deflation in 2009.  When a house that sold for $400k sells for $150k four years later (see above post), that's deflation.
 
2014-04-15 02:32:53 PM  

JonBuck: So, San Diego is actually worse than San Francisco when it comes to rent? I'm actually surprised.


Only if you wear flowers in your hair.
 
2014-04-15 04:01:48 PM  

randomarrangement: Wessoman: For the record, "Keeping Austin Weird" means "Keep Austin's rent cheap enough so I can work at a place like Homeslice and still play in a band and maybe smoke bad weed from time to time.". Having been to both NY and LA, Austin isn't really trying to emulate either city, but a lot of former residents of those cities are bringing their bad habits with you.

you've lived in Austin for three years...and moved here from LA. Are you posting all this crap ironically?


I moved here from Nashville, four years ago. And I have been to Austin 5 times (Extended visits) over the 90's and 2000's. DO try and keep up. And lay off the "Irony" lameness, it was old in 2004 and all that tells people is that you insecure about your own self image.
 
2014-04-15 04:59:38 PM  

Geotpf: Talondel: Sliding Carp: Hey, we've been told for at least the last 2 decades that constantly-increasing real estate prices are the only valid measure of the health of the economy.

We've also been told that inflation has been near zero for that same time, so anyone who says that prices of things like food, rent, and utilities are rising relative to income must be mistaken.

Inflation has been low.  We had actual deflation in 2009.  When a house that sold for $400k sells for $150k four years later (see above post), that's deflation.


Yet amazingly we also had low inflation in all of the years that housing prices were running up.  The government decided to change the way inflation is calculated.  Part of those changes included excluding food and energy costs from the calculation as "too volatile."  But seeing as those make up a large portion of the typical family's monthly spending, they have a real and immediate impact that the official inflation numbers simply ignore.  That, among other things, leads to reported inflation being drastically lower than the inflationary effects people actually feel.  Which is why it is possible for rents to have risen to the point were people can no longer afford rent, despite the fact that reported inflation had averaged near zero.

Conveniently, being able to say that we have low inflation and high unemployment gives the Fed cover to continue their economic stimulus.  They wouldn't be doing that if reported inflation was high.  So the Fed continues to pump dollars into the system.  Then people act surprised when prices go up.  Because "officially" there hasn't actually been any inflation, even though anyone who actually shops and spends money on things can tell you that their cost of living is going up dramatically.
 
2014-04-15 05:02:42 PM  

Wessoman: I moved here from Nashville, four years ago


This is how I now have you highlighted:

Moved to Austin in 2010. Knows how cool it "used" to be.
 
2014-04-15 11:49:52 PM  

Tonto's Expanding Headband: Wessoman: I moved here from Nashville, four years ago

This is how I now have you highlighted:

Moved to Austin in 2010. Knows how cool it "used" to be.


Wessoman: I moved here from Nashville, four years ago. And I have been to Austin 5 times (Extended visits) over the 90's and 2000's. DO try and keep up. And lay off the "Irony" lameness, it was old in 2004 and all that tells people is that you insecure about your own self image.

 
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