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(The New York Times)   The rent is too damn high...and not just in NYC   (nytimes.com) divider line 117
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10243 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Apr 2014 at 8:03 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-14 04:55:35 PM
Hey, we've been told for at least the last 2 decades that constantly-increasing real estate prices are the only valid measure of the health of the economy.

What the hell do you expect?
 
2014-04-14 08:07:02 PM
Makers and takers, right?
 
2014-04-14 08:09:06 PM
how much you got?
 
2014-04-14 08:09:10 PM
I wonder what the breaking point is
 
2014-04-14 08:10:18 PM
Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!
 
2014-04-14 08:14:57 PM
"Whatever the market will bear" economics. It won't drop as long as there are people who will pay it.
 
2014-04-14 08:16:15 PM

ElLoco: "Whatever the market will bear" economics. It won't drop as long as there are people who will pay it.


or are so desperate to find a place to live they will pay for overpriced crappy places *cough Austin, Tx cough cough*
 
2014-04-14 08:16:34 PM

Sliding Carp: Hey, we've been told for at least the last 2 decades that constantly-increasing real estate prices are the only valid measure of the health of the economy.

What the hell do you expect?


But mah equity! How else am I going to retire? I'm gonna sell of my 30 year ol' home and get myself a condo in Tahiti.
 
2014-04-14 08:16:43 PM
Well if you keep paying it, then yeah, they're going to keep charging you it, duh.

How the fark do people not get the 'life is not fair' aspect of life?

There is no invisible guiding hand of fate, justice or otherwise.

Either move elsewhere, die, or starve yourself so you can afford a swanky place.

Or get a roommate, whateves.
 
2014-04-14 08:16:57 PM

mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!


I was similarly expecting a mention. It's only going to get worse...
 
2014-04-14 08:17:03 PM
Well, the good news here is that Flagstaff is no linger the top of the list. Of course, this says it's just rent. But Flag used to be the most expensive, so that's a plus.
 
2014-04-14 08:17:42 PM

mafiageek1980: or are so desperate to find a place to live they will pay for overpriced crappy places *cough Austin, Tx cough cough*


El Paso and Laredo are worse.

Lots of jobs though.
 
2014-04-14 08:20:51 PM
Well having a company near a "sexy" location is one thing but if your employees cant afford to live within 2 hours perhaps moving someplace less sexy might be an alternative.... nah, who am I kidding vote yourself some more stock options and have the kids working on the 3 hour commute in to town.
 
2014-04-14 08:24:07 PM
You want to be a landlord?
It'll just cost your soul.
s16.postimg.org
Sign right here
 
2014-04-14 08:25:14 PM
So the Times' idea of a representative sample is pretty much

- a major city
- a resort area
- a college town

And that's it.l

mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!


They left out a gigantic swath of the country, as well as a bunch of cities that Harvard studied. Cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Baltimore...Gosh, I can't imagine why.

It would be nice if when a newspaper cites a "comprehensive" study, they write a comprehensive article about it.

The other thing left out of TFA is the role that overly-rigid building codes play. A developer who wants to build smaller, more affordable units is often legally prevented from doing so.

But changing building codes is boring.
 
2014-04-14 08:25:17 PM
I'd let it go like Trenton. Sure if you're willing to commute, who cares? Granted, I'd rather live in the next county from Albuquerque, you get a lot more home, for less, and it's quiet at night. When we first moved here in 2008, we were looking at homes in the Rio Rancho suburb, but just lookrd at the crime, and no easy way to get to the freeway. So living out here, just one mile to the freeway, and not having to deal with that junk. The biggest problem I'm seeing now, is th retirees are heading out here in droves now. At least the cops here aren't blowing people away like Bernalillo county.
 
2014-04-14 08:25:21 PM
Rents go up as wages go down. Can't explain that.
 
2014-04-14 08:27:09 PM
So, San Diego is actually worse than San Francisco when it comes to rent? I'm actually surprised.
 
2014-04-14 08:27:53 PM
It's those damn hipsters and their gentrification ways.
 
2014-04-14 08:29:31 PM
I don't know, since I've actually been able to afford to do so, I've often paid out 50% of my income for a nice place to live.  Better that, than living in some shiathole for the sake of what?  A nice car?  Savings that I can't take with me? (childless)  There is something to be said for living near the beach, in a nice area, and with nice folks for neighbors as a bonus.
 
2014-04-14 08:33:29 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-14 08:35:45 PM

CoonAce: Makers and takers, right?


Yup, and just as you're implying the actual "makers" and "takers" are exactly the opposite of what republicans believe. And they always have been - those who make things, or take care of things, or otherwise make income from labor, have always made MUCH less those who own things (land, factories, whatever). Rentiers, those who make money from rents. We used to call them "lords" and it was primarily land, now we call them "investors" or "job creators" or sometimes "landlord" and they own financial assets primarily (stocks in companies) with real estate as a side dish. Even the "high income" professions like CEO are heavily paid in stock options - in other words, they are gateways into the rentier class.

I'm actually surprised that Honolulu comes out so well, I know there are people making a lot of money here but if anyone knows how to get those jobs, clue me in. I'm not local so I don't have the connections, maybe. I have to admit I haven't been searching high and low, but what I see on craigslist and elsewhere is pretty terrible.
 
2014-04-14 08:43:49 PM

But hey, at least rich people are doing great.


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-richer-thro u gh-the-recovery/?_r=2
The top 10 percent of earners took more than half of the country's total income in 2012, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting the relevant data a century ago...

But the total income of the top 1 percent surged nearly 20 percent that year. The incomes of the very richest, the 0.01 percent, shot up more than 32 percent.
 
2014-04-14 08:47:30 PM
They keep doing these studies in cities like San Francisco, New York and Miami.

Nobody just casually lives in those places.  Competition is fierce.
 
2014-04-14 08:49:04 PM

Capo Del Bandito: How the fark do people not get the 'life is not fair' aspect of life?


No, it's certainly not, and I don't really have an issue with that fact (not that life would care if I did). I do have a problem with some folks' tendency to use that as an excuse to make things even more unfair. Life is shiatty enough without people going out of their way to make it worse.
 
2014-04-14 08:49:31 PM
If people can't afford it, who is paying for them?

/prices are reasonable here
 
2014-04-14 08:50:29 PM

JonBuck: So, San Diego is actually worse than San Francisco when it comes to rent? I'm actually surprised.


No its not.

/lives in San Diego
//spends every other week in San Francisco laughing over what my peers pay for rent for exactly the same square footage and enmities I get
///and I get the bonus of not having to live in San Francisco
/of course it depends on what exactly we are measuring - doesn't it?
 
2014-04-14 08:54:20 PM
I'm paying exactly 30% of my income for my apartment. ( wish I could tolerate living around other people so I didn't have to pay so much $$$ for a place to live, but I just don't have it in me....)

/ did the roommate thing in my 20's....never again....
 
2014-04-14 08:54:41 PM
You can buy a mansion for like $40000! It's Detroit, but still......
 
2014-04-14 08:56:07 PM

gingerjet: /of course it depends on what exactly we are measuring - doesn't it?


tfa claims its measuring median rent against median income so San Francisco rent could theoretically be more expensive than San Diego but below San Diego on this measure because the pay is also higher.
 
2014-04-14 08:56:49 PM

mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!


They are just pushing the poors out to Kyle and Georgetown. But yes, as a man currently living in Austin and who lived in Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, rent is out of reach of the middle class. The only way out is basically enjoy roomates/housemates or live in some really sketchy places with sketchier landlords.

Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.
 
2014-04-14 08:56:50 PM
30% including utilities actually sounds low.
 
2014-04-14 09:00:51 PM
It's a terrible situation in my city. Unless you're selling. When I graduated high school in 2002 the average home cost $250,000. I went to school, both a technical diploma and a policy degree. I didn't qualify for students loans so worked 20hrs a week in retail and in the infantry reserves on the weekends. By the time I finished paying my way through college I didn't have a down payment and the average house now cost $450,000. Dozens of square kilometers of suburbs had sprouted up all over the city, many built shoddily, in order to keep up with demand.

Then the crash. Not that many people lost homes thanks to Canadian mortgage lending rules, but spending dropped drastically, leading many boomers to stave off retirement and people of my generation (Y) were left with glass-ceiling entry and intermediate jobs. I had the experience of making 50% of the average Calgarian. Saving in a city this expensive is nearly impossible. Everyone else just carries massive debt, but I live within my means. This means a 950sqft townhouse I rent for $1200 plus all utilities to house my wife and kids and me, and few year old minivan.

After the economy finally stabilized, I now have a much better paying job and slightly better prospects, although the baby boomers are still working. So after all that, I could now buy, but the house prices have jumped again, and the average house is near $450,000. That is a debt I could never realistically pay off in 30 years in this town and in my profession. Therefore, I am very reticent to buy a home at those prices just to lose big on the next crash. I'd rather keep my money and go on vacations and take kids traveling, there's nothing to do here anyway.

Of course, I'm not the only one to be thinking this way, and this has driven up rent prices here too. That and when all those lovely expensive suburbs were going up nobody built higher density rental housing. There was no profit in it at the time compared to the suburbs.

Anyways, I'm not complaining. I have it pretty damn good here but I'm a slave to the system, it's expensive here, but the work is here. I know cause I've been told by over dozen European immigrants I've run into on job sites in the last year. Bloody irishmen.
 
2014-04-14 09:03:10 PM
Apts in central Houston are either crazy expensive or shiat holes.

There are a few gems here and there, but most newer complexes run $1200 for a 600sqft one bedroom apt. That's easily a house note in the burbs.
 
2014-04-14 09:04:37 PM

Wessoman: mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!

They are just pushing the poors out to Kyle and Georgetown. But yes, as a man currently living in Austin and who lived in Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, rent is out of reach of the middle class. The only way out is basically enjoy roomates/housemates or live in some really sketchy places with sketchier landlords.

Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.


couldnt have said it better myself

/married to a Los Angelian (sp?)
 
2014-04-14 09:05:03 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: I'm paying exactly 30% of my income for my apartment. ( wish I could tolerate living around other people so I didn't have to pay so much $$$ for a place to live, but I just don't have it in me....)

/ did the roommate thing in my 20's....never again....


The last time I lived with roommates I ended up leaving because one of them was psychotic and had just bought a gun.

Twenty years later I saw a news story where she had been stalking her former neighbors, and ended up in a shootout with the police.

/willing to pay the high rent, and I'm lucky so far, but it's insanely expensive
 
2014-04-14 09:07:27 PM
FTA :   insatiable demand for luxury condos in Miami, created in part by wealthy Latin Americans


I wonder what the significance of the renters race is as it relates to this article?


Anyhoo...

TFA was pretty much focused on Miami, but nowhere was it mentioned that Florida has no state income tax and their sales tax is only 6%.

Even on an average income, that's got to be worth a couple of months rent right there.
 
2014-04-14 09:07:55 PM

Wessoman: mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!

They are just pushing the poors out to Kyle and Georgetown. But yes, as a man currently living in Austin and who lived in Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, rent is out of reach of the middle class. The only way out is basically enjoy roomates/housemates or live in some really sketchy places with sketchier landlords.

Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.


#MADSOMAD.

Yeah it's easy to see that Austin is overcrowded, overpriced, and the traffic sucks.

Though, it's all relative. Been here for a year now, and couldn't love it any more than I do.  It took 29 years to get out of my shiathole of small conservative Texas town, and it's within driving distance of family and other friends who I left behind.

I'll take the good with the bad, because the scales tip far in favor of 'the good.'
 
2014-04-14 09:08:10 PM

CruJones: 30% including utilities actually sounds low.


33% gross just for rent is the affordability point, supposedly.


Been doing almost that (28%), living like a bum, but have an offer accepted on a house that'll cut my monthly dedicated payment by 75%.

It also helps to live where you can still buy a starter home for under 100k.
 
2014-04-14 09:15:02 PM
Well, I don't feel quite so insane now for spending maybe about 40% of my income to live alone.
 
2014-04-14 09:17:31 PM

studebaker hoch: They keep doing these studies in cities like San Francisco, New York and Miami.

Nobody just casually lives in those places.  Competition is fierce.


Well, given that there is still public housing in Manhattan and there are still people living below the poverty line in NYC, that's not entirely true.

But the thing is, if you want to be a scumbag, a thief or a junkie in NYC you have to work a lot harder at it than if you live in a smaller city or in rural bumfark.

//I live in Philly and we're seeing an exodus of poor people to smaller towns like York and Reading as the rents are cheaper there and the poor think smaller cities are "safer", cause that's what they've been taught.  Of course, they just end up taking their problems with them,
 
2014-04-14 09:19:56 PM

star_topology: Wessoman: mafiageek1980: Maybe I missed it, but no where in that article was Austin.tx mentioned...just sayin!

They are just pushing the poors out to Kyle and Georgetown. But yes, as a man currently living in Austin and who lived in Los Angeles and Santa Cruz, rent is out of reach of the middle class. The only way out is basically enjoy roomates/housemates or live in some really sketchy places with sketchier landlords.

Besides, Austin is a city that's ready to die. The "Locals" harp nostalgic of the days when Austin was a "Small town" (HINT it never really was and it is now a city so build some damned infrastructure already why don't cha?), while the "Newcomers" think Austin is a bizarre crossbreed between Panama City Beach, FL and Sunnyvale, CA, and are doing a great job into gentrifying the city into Dallas 2.0.

#MADSOMAD.

Yeah it's easy to see that Austin is overcrowded, overpriced, and the traffic sucks.

Though, it's all relative. Been here for a year now, and couldn't love it any more than I do.  It took 29 years to get out of my shiathole of small conservative Texas town, and it's within driving distance of family and other friends who I left behind.

I'll take the good with the bad, because the scales tip far in favor of 'the good.'


Yep, but you don't have a clue how awesome the city used to be. BTW--Welcome to Austin. Keep it weird. Seriously.

Case in point---It isn't just the overcrowding. I am from Los Angeles (Moved from LA to Nashville in 2003 and to Austin in 2010) so I am used to crowded spaces. The problem is the people coming to Austin and the way locals are reacting. Old time Austinites who were born and raised here all talk nostalgia, and new Austinites do not understand the flow of the city. Example--New Condos go up next to smaller low rent housing. Now bands in the low rent housing can't practice because the big condo tenants are complaining. Most of the creative color of the city is being tossed out (Unfortunately, by people like you escaping to the only blue spot in the very red texas) because they like the idea of Austin being weird, but not TOO weird... The city becomes gentrified and homogenous, sprawling concrete where one can't tell where Austin ends and Round Rock begins, and the color, the creativity, and the beauty that made Austin great gets lost when Lady Gaga plays Stubbs at SXSW, a showcase for local Austin bands once upon a time...Heck, back in the old days, Holy Wave would probably be the biggest band performing.

So yeah, I am #MADSOMAD. #WHATAREYAGONNADOABOUTITBRO?

After all, from another Austinite:

mafiageek1980: couldnt have said it better myself

/married to a Los Angelian (sp?)


Indeed. So do your part, and KEEP AUSTIN WEIRD.
 
2014-04-14 09:20:18 PM
Had an empty lot next to me a couple of years ago, when this Yuppie up and bought it. Actually, she moved so fast that the for sale sign went up in the morning and came down by evening.

Then she and her hubby of the time built a small, two bedroom house with an enclosed garage -- to rent out. She started out with the rent 50% higher than the local levels and got it. Since then, she's gone through several renters, keeping the rent high.

I figure she's got over 75% of the mortgage paid off by now.

When the housing boom hit here, rents went up ridiculously high. Quite a few folks who would prefer to rent found it cheaper to get a high risk mortgage and buy or build a new home. Low income families assisted in rent by section 8 found themselves living in houses in bad neighborhoods where the places were mainly held together by termites holding hands.

You would not believe the advertising campaign that went out, suckering low income folks into getting mortgages with little money down, low interest rates and hardly any background check. Quite a few missed that little section in the papers that mentioned ballooning payments.

Now, after the bust, rents are still quite high.
 
2014-04-14 09:20:43 PM

gingerjet: JonBuck: So, San Diego is actually worse than San Francisco when it comes to rent? I'm actually surprised.

No its not.

/lives in San Diego
//spends every other week in San Francisco laughing over what my peers pay for rent for exactly the same square footage and enmities I get
///and I get the bonus of not having to live in San Francisco
/of course it depends on what exactly we are measuring - doesn't it?


Better weather, cooler people...what's not to like?
 
2014-04-14 09:20:45 PM
Nobody lives there anymore. It's too expensive.
 
2014-04-14 09:20:45 PM
Rent is merely the first wave of what happens as assets shifting to the wealthy continues to accelerate.

The well off see an ever expanding "taker" class out there biatching about stuff like this.
 
2014-04-14 09:23:37 PM
Meh, some people are too lazy to search for a good place. I pay $633 for an 800 sqft apartment in south Tulsa. Gated community, W/D included, etc. Sure I could pay less and live in the ghetto, or get a bigger place with roommates, but I love living with just my cats.
 
2014-04-14 09:26:55 PM

7th Son of a 7th Son: Meh, some people are too lazy to search for a good place. I pay $633 for an 800 sqft apartment in south Tulsa. Gated community, W/D included, etc. Sure I could pay less and live in the ghetto, or get a bigger place with roommates, but I love living with just my cats.


ha! TRY to find a place NOT in the hood here in Austin at that price! Good luck!
 
2014-04-14 09:30:03 PM

Gulper Eel: The other thing left out of TFA is the role that overly-rigid building codes play. A developer who wants to build smaller, more affordable units is often legally prevented from doing so.


That's an interesting angle.

A lot of the developers cry that if they can't build McMansions and charge $320K+, they can't make any money.

This is truly a screwed-up market.
 
2014-04-14 09:32:47 PM
www.michaeljfox.org

The part in blue wants to know what you all are biatching about.
 
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