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(Minn Post)   Homeopathy still doesn't work   (minnpost.com) divider line 135
    More: Obvious, homeopathy, migraine headaches, rectal cancer, sepsis  
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3012 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Apr 2014 at 6:27 PM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-14 04:48:48 PM
"You've got a degree in baloney." *squirt*
 
2014-04-14 04:51:00 PM
Still no cure for Dr. Oz.
 
2014-04-14 05:10:15 PM
Homeopathy is the one that started the idea that cleanliness is a good idea.

Blind squirrel, chestnut, you know the drill.
 
2014-04-14 05:19:04 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Still no cure for Dr. Oz.


I've been watching late night re-runs of his show recently.  Its seriously good-bad stuff.
 
2014-04-14 05:32:41 PM
Still no cure for hormesis.

Oh, wait....
 
2014-04-14 06:36:06 PM
Doesn't matter.  Homeopathy is obviously garbage, but the people who believe in it see this kind of study and they just chalk it up to that evil medical-industrial complex suppressing the real truth, and it just reinforces their idiot beliefs further.
 
jvl
2014-04-14 06:37:14 PM
Obviously scientists need to perform fewer tests of homeopathy in order to properly see the benefits.
 
2014-04-14 06:38:58 PM
Homeopathy is like losing weight. We've tried absolutely nothing and we're all out of ideas!
 
2014-04-14 06:39:53 PM
I'll look forward to the comments on the website and on the facebook link about someone's anecdotal evidence that Pine Tree Bark cured their cough, so homeopathy totally does work.
 
2014-04-14 06:42:07 PM
 
2014-04-14 06:43:51 PM
Yeah but leeches work.  And acupuncture.  And bleeding.

/ok, maybe not that last one
 
2014-04-14 06:47:25 PM

AliceBToklasLives: Yeah but leeches work.  And acupuncture.  And bleeding.

/ok, maybe not that last one


Bleeding works, you just have to know why you're doing it. It doesn't release humors, but it does release blood. If you bleed into a really clean sac, you can give that blood to other people.
 
2014-04-14 06:50:01 PM

vygramul: Homeopathy is the one that started the idea that cleanliness is a good idea.

Blind squirrel, chestnut, you know the drill.


What? I don't think so.

Early practitioners of Homeopathy may have encouraged cleanliness, but they were not the first or the only practitioners to endorse it.

Happily, even if they were correct about one thing, they were still dead wrong about the actual effectiveness of their treatments (and wrong about the reasoning behind that belief).
 
2014-04-14 06:52:35 PM
Can we just ban the shiat already?!?!?!
 
2014-04-14 06:55:38 PM

vygramul: Homeopathy is the one that started the idea that cleanliness is a good idea.

Blind squirrel, chestnut, you know the drill.


Imagine a stick figure holding up a sign saying "[Citation Needed]".
 
2014-04-14 07:00:42 PM

darwinpolice: Doesn't matter.  Homeopathy is obviously garbage, but the people who believe in it see this kind of study and they just chalk it up to that evil medical-industrial complex suppressing the real truth, and it just reinforces their idiot beliefs further.




So, still no cure for homeopathy?
 
2014-04-14 07:02:42 PM
I'm going to open a homeopathic pub.  The nutters will believe they're getting drunk off their ass, and I'll be able to make a single bottle of cheap scotch last decades.
 
2014-04-14 07:02:50 PM
The best part about homeopathy is that the less homeopathy you use the more effective the treatment is.
 
2014-04-14 07:09:40 PM
It might not work, but it still sells.  So it'll be around forever. As long as there are suckers, there will be dishonest people to take advantage of them.
 
2014-04-14 07:17:31 PM

Psychopusher: I'm going to open a homeopathic pub.  The nutters will believe they're getting drunk off their ass, and I'll be able to make a single bottle of cheap scotch last decades.


You magnificent bastard!  I salute you!
 
2014-04-14 07:17:50 PM

AliceBToklasLives: Yeah but leeches work.  And acupuncture.  And bleeding.

/ok, maybe not that last one


leeches have their place in medicine, acupuncture has some place, bleeding is useful in a number of diseases of horses.
 
2014-04-14 07:19:48 PM
Mitchell and Webb look at Homeopathic A&E.  Finish with a Homeopathic beer: Link
 
2014-04-14 07:20:28 PM
That's just what they want you to think!

Trepanning is still effective though, right?
 
2014-04-14 07:20:31 PM

Psychopusher: I'm going to open a homeopathic pub.  The nutters will believe they're getting drunk off their ass, and I'll be able to make a single bottle of cheap scotch last decades.



Here ya go:  http://youtu.be/HMGIbOGu8q0 The homeopathic pub is at the end.
 
2014-04-14 07:21:17 PM

Metastatic Capricorn: Mitchell and Webb look at Homeopathic A&E.  Finish with a Homeopathic beer: Link



dammit.
 
2014-04-14 07:21:52 PM

Morchella: Metastatic Capricorn: Mitchell and Webb look at Homeopathic A&E.  Finish with a Homeopathic beer: Link


dammit.


Tee hee
 
2014-04-14 07:22:52 PM
Homeopathy doesn't work, but vaccines are SO effective... got it.
 
2014-04-14 07:36:22 PM
media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com

But holistic healers are still O.K., right? Right?
 
2014-04-14 07:36:31 PM

T.rex: Homeopathy doesn't work, but vaccines are SO effective... got it.


Smallpox would like a word with you.
 
2014-04-14 07:37:02 PM

T.rex: Homeopathy doesn't work, but vaccines are SO effective... got it.


Glad you understand. Now you may join the adults.
 
2014-04-14 07:40:25 PM

T.rex: Homeopathy doesn't work, but vaccines are SO effective... got it.


Actually, yes. The idea that an amount of dead or weakened virus could stimulate the body's immune system has been postulated, tested abundantly, and found to be effective in the vast majority of cases.

As for homeopathy, the idea that a statistically insignificant amount of a substance introduced to a body could change the body's physical response to that or a similar substances has been postulated, tested abundantly, and found to be as steaming pile ofpseudoscience.

That's how science works.  It stops being science when you don't abandon failed or inadequate models in favor of ones that explain circumstances better and make better predictions.
 
2014-04-14 07:41:20 PM

Skanque: I'll look forward to the comments on the website and on the facebook link about someone's anecdotal evidence that Pine Tree Bark cured their cough, so homeopathy totally does work.


If there's an actual active ingredient, it's not homeopathy. If there's 1ppm pine tree bark and the rest is neutral filler, THAT's homeopathy. That's not to say naturopathy is always better, but a ton of pharmaceuticals are based on natural remedies, such as aspirin being based on willow bark.
 
2014-04-14 07:41:32 PM
Totally works.  Homeopathic medicine cured my slight dehydration.
 
2014-04-14 07:43:13 PM

Farkamajig: Totally works.  Homeopathic medicine cured my slight dehydration.


Homeopathy could eliminate our need for water if only we could think of something with which we could dilute it!
 
2014-04-14 07:43:39 PM

Metastatic Capricorn: T.rex: Homeopathy doesn't work, but vaccines are SO effective... got it.

Actually, yes. The idea that an amount of dead or weakened virus could stimulate the body's immune system has been postulated, tested abundantly, and found to be effective in the vast majority of cases.


Tested by whom?  The vaccine manufacturers, those who profit from them?  I'm sold.

/i'm not at all being sarcastic, so no need to reply.
 
2014-04-14 07:43:54 PM

MrSteve007: T.rex: Homeopathy doesn't work, but vaccines are SO effective... got it.

Smallpox would like a word with you.


But you're gonna have to convince the US or Russian govt. to let y'all talk.

/BTW - Smallpox inoculation is rooted in folk medicine. Americans got the info from one of Cotton Mather's slaves.
 
2014-04-14 07:54:05 PM
If it works, then why haven't any double-blinded studies been published showing the results?  Of course it's all hokum.

But still, people love to believe stupid conspiracy theories and anti-scientific garbage.
 
2014-04-14 07:57:16 PM
Ok, I'm taking off my sarcasm hat for a second and I want you guys to hear me out.

... In some circumstances homeopathy is effective.

Ok, I said hear me out.  The placebo effect can be very powerful, and useful, in some situations.  An example: I worked in a pharmacy for a few years and a lady came in with a prescription for Ambien (which was brand and very expensive at the time).  She noticed a display for a few homeopathic remedies, and picked up the one to be used as a sleep aid.  She asked me some questions and I gave her the usual response - not proven in studies, follow doctors advice, yada yada, but ended it with a "but some people do claim it works very well for them."  She put down the $150 bottle of Ambien and said she would try the $4 bottle of placebo.  For as long as I worked at that store, that lady came in every month religiously to buy her bottle of sleeping placebo, never had a problem with insomnia again.  And who am I to argue?  You can argue that it is damaging to society as a whole because it fosters a climate of voodoo/magical thinking, but for THIS lady on THIS occasion it was better for her to have the placebo.

Then again, a few weeks later a different lady asking the same question with her kids antibiotic for pneumonia, and I flying-crane coont-poonted her into a low earth orbit.

My point is the placebo effect is real and often very effective.  This might be a good way to harness that.
 
2014-04-14 08:00:59 PM

Skanque: I'll look forward to the comments on the website and on the facebook link about someone's anecdotal evidence that Pine Tree Bark cured their cough, so homeopathy totally does work.


Willow bark cured my headache, and brought my fever down,  and reduced inflammation.
 
2014-04-14 08:04:22 PM

T.rex: Metastatic Capricorn: T.rex: Homeopathy doesn't work, but vaccines are SO effective... got it.

Actually, yes. The idea that an amount of dead or weakened virus could stimulate the body's immune system has been postulated, tested abundantly, and found to be effective in the vast majority of cases.

Tested by whom?  The vaccine manufacturers, those who profit from them?  I'm sold.

/i'm not at all being sarcastic, so no need to reply.


i.chzbgr.com
 
2014-04-14 08:04:53 PM
BigLuca:

My point is the placebo effect is real and often very effective.  This might be a good way to harness that.

The problem is that the placebo effect is  not harnessable. It's not a variable that can be controlled. In some circumstances, it actively depends on the ignorance of the patient. In others, it's culturally contextual, which makes predicting it complicated.

Meanwhile, you have people like the second lady in your example who will pass up real treatments for capsules full of couch stuffing.

Legitimizing nonsense does nobody any favors. Well, except the people selling nonsense.
 
2014-04-14 08:05:41 PM

BigLuca: My point is the placebo effect is real and often very effective.  This might be a good way to harness that.


I'm cured! I mean "OUCH"!
 
2014-04-14 08:06:21 PM

AliceBToklasLives: Yeah but leeches work.  And acupuncture.  And bleeding.

/ok, maybe not that last one


Actually that last one is a valid treatment for some conditions.
 
2014-04-14 08:07:57 PM

State_College_Arsonist: If it works, then why haven't any double-blinded studies been published showing the results?  Of course it's all hokum.

But still, people love to believe stupid conspiracy theories and anti-scientific garbage.


Why haven't double-blind studies been conducted on vaccines? And yes, I'm aware "studies" have been performed, but you're the one who brought up double-blind studies.
 
2014-04-14 08:10:03 PM

BigLuca: Ok, I'm taking off my sarcasm hat for a second and I want you guys to hear me out.

... In some circumstances homeopathy is effective.

Ok, I said hear me out.  The placebo effect can be very powerful, and useful, in some situations.  An example: I worked in a pharmacy for a few years and a lady came in with a prescription for Ambien (which was brand and very expensive at the time).  She noticed a display for a few homeopathic remedies, and picked up the one to be used as a sleep aid.  She asked me some questions and I gave her the usual response - not proven in studies, follow doctors advice, yada yada, but ended it with a "but some people do claim it works very well for them."  She put down the $150 bottle of Ambien and said she would try the $4 bottle of placebo.  For as long as I worked at that store, that lady came in every month religiously to buy her bottle of sleeping placebo, never had a problem with insomnia again.  And who am I to argue?  You can argue that it is damaging to society as a whole because it fosters a climate of voodoo/magical thinking, but for THIS lady on THIS occasion it was better for her to have the placebo.

Then again, a few weeks later a different lady asking the same question with her kids antibiotic for pneumonia, and I flying-crane coont-poonted her into a low earth orbit.

My point is the placebo effect is real and often very effective.  This might be a good way to harness that.


There's a TED talk about it.

Basically, he thinks the placeebo bridges the gap between the conscious and the unconscious, giving the body permission to take time to heal. Be it sugar pills, chicken soup, or even just a certain gesture like crossing yourself, you're giving your body the "No bears here, let's lie down and recover." signal. The pain and discomfort is mostly there to get you to find such a safe spot and stay the fark down. Once your body knows its time, a lot of it goes away. That's why people's placeebos work so damn well. It's just a starter pistol for the biology, he says.
 
2014-04-14 08:12:05 PM

downstairs: Marcus Aurelius: Still no cure for Dr. Oz.

I've been watching late night re-runs of his show recently.  Its seriously good-bad stuff.


I feel sad and afraid for you at the same time.

You need a hug and a good flossing.
 
2014-04-14 08:15:14 PM
You know what we call alternative medicine that works? Medicine,

stream1.gifsoup.com

Deal with it.
 
2014-04-14 08:15:34 PM

hstein3: BigLuca:

My point is the placebo effect is real and often very effective.  This might be a good way to harness that.

The problem is that the placebo effect is  not harnessable. It's not a variable that can be controlled. In some circumstances, it actively depends on the ignorance of the patient. In others, it's culturally contextual, which makes predicting it complicated.

Meanwhile, you have people like the second lady in your example who will pass up real treatments for capsules full of couch stuffing.

Legitimizing nonsense does nobody any favors. Well, except the people selling nonsense.


Well it's harnessable to some degree for individual cases, just not in an organized, consistent manner.  Maybe it can only be used for psychosomatic illness in idiots, but there is a lot of idiots going to their docs for psychosomatic reasons.  Maybe make it behind-the-counter, so you have to run it by the pharmacist first? I dunno...
 
2014-04-14 08:16:37 PM
untaken_name:
Why haven't double-blind studies been conducted on vaccines? And yes, I'm aware "studies" have been performed, but you're the one who brought up double-blind studies.

Actually, there have been a lot. Every Phase I vaccine testing series includes double-blind studies, for example. They test for both efficacy and for side effects.

There are also after-the-fact studies testing the efficacy of many vaccines in the general population.
 
2014-04-14 08:17:45 PM
doglover:
There's a TED talk about it.

Basically, he thinks the placeebo bridges the gap between the conscious and the unconscious, giving the body permission to take time to heal. Be it sugar pills, chicken soup, or even just a certain gesture like crossing yourself, you're giving your body the "No bears here, let's lie down and recover." signal. The pain and discomfort is mostly there to get you to find such a safe spot and stay the fark down. Once your body knows its time, a lot of it goes away. That's why people's placeebos work so damn well. It's jus ...


I watch TED talks all the time and I've never seen that one.  Thank you! Off to TED...
 
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