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(Huffington Post)   "How Wall St.'s terrible work habits will screw us all" This is not a repeat from 2007   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 48
    More: Scary, Wall St, Robert Rubin, Henry Blodget, loves, treasury secretary, investment bankers  
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3109 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Apr 2014 at 9:40 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



48 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-14 08:57:08 AM  
A higher position in my company is opening up again in the near future. I turned it down previously when it was offered for this exact reason - longer hours, higher stress. No regrets that time, but now I'm faced with the likely position of having an idiot take it if I don't. Nice guy, but an idiot, and everyone knows I'm far more suited. Don't know what to do.
 
2014-04-14 09:42:48 AM  
Summary: people who work harder than you are going to infiltrate your field and make you look bad.
 
2014-04-14 09:45:04 AM  
Wall Street has nothing on guys that bill by the hour.  I know lawyers and professional services people that literally have no life whatsoever.
 
2014-04-14 09:48:46 AM  
GoldSpider: Summary: people who work harder longer than you are going to infiltrate your field and make you look bad.

FTFY
 
2014-04-14 10:09:21 AM  
How Wall St.'s terrible work habits will screw us all

There, shortened the headline for you subby.
 
2014-04-14 10:14:31 AM  

deeproy: GoldSpider: Summary: people who work harder longer suck more Managerial Cock than you are going to infiltrate your field and make you look bad.

FTFY


Fixed again.
 
2014-04-14 10:26:56 AM  
I worked on Wall Street for 5 years and I learned some major things that articles like this rarely seem to catch on to.

First, there is a huge pressure to work long hours, but it's not as extreme a everyone suggests.  The Stone Street bars in the Financial District and all the after work bars in Midtown are filled at 6:45 PM with the very same people who gleefully tell you they work from sun up to eight hours after sundown.  Now, some of these people have been in the office since 7:00 AM, and that's a 11+ hour work day, sure, but there are plenty of Farkers who have done those hours for weeks or years and never gotten the credit that most finance d-bags do.

Second, there are the random few people who do work the 20+ hour work day.  Some bosses think those people are the golden children of the firm.  Smart bosses know those people are useful idiots who either a) work painfully slowly but work enough before they burn out; or b) don't know how to delegate and will never advance beyond a certain point.  There is no such thing as a guy or girl who works 20 hours and gets 2.5x as much done as the 8-hour worker.

Finally, the rule that everyone in this cadre of industries eventually adopts as their own persona dogma, intentionally or subconsciously is, the only thing more important than working long hours is lying about how many hours you work.  Oh, you work 16 hours a day?  How quaint.  When you make it to the big leagues like me, you'll be working 23.5 hours per day.  Oh, you billed 2200 hours last year?  That'll be great for your family life when you transition to a small company out in the suburbs.  I billed 3400 hours last year.

Whether it's banking, venture capital and private equity or law, everybody understands that the mortar in their ivory towers is bullshiat.  That goes as much for their hours as for their business-in-chief.
 
2014-04-14 10:37:17 AM  
I'm posting this from bed at 9:35am and when I start working at noon, I'll probably be finished by 5pm.

I don't do this everyday, but most Mondays.

I'll still make $800 today also.

Real estate appraiser FTW
 
2014-04-14 10:37:32 AM  
CSB:

My flatmate after college worked for one of the big investment banks. They typically got home some time around midnight and were out of the flat by 6am when I got up in the morning.

They spent the better part of a year trying to recruit me, while the $$$ would have been nice I wasn't prepared to lose the best years of my life to 18 hour days.

Looking back I'm still glad I didn't go in for that BS - partly because I had a great time and am very happy with the way my career has gone, and partly because the job on offer was basically analyzing the returns on shorts and CDS's on mortgage backed securities and ... well... we all know how that worked out. It's been rather nice not having to wait out the statute of limitations the last few years.
 
2014-04-14 10:51:36 AM  
Not a repeat from 2007

...yet
 
2014-04-14 10:59:18 AM  
They stay at work so long because they're unimaginative finance dullards who have no life outside of work.  Period.
 
2014-04-14 10:59:59 AM  

unlikely: Not a repeat from 2007

...yet


Hint: the people about which this article was written are not the same people who caused the housing bubble and subsequent market crash.
 
2014-04-14 11:14:37 AM  

gopher321: A higher position in my company is opening up again in the near future. I turned it down previously when it was offered for this exact reason - longer hours, higher stress. No regrets that time, but now I'm faced with the likely position of having an idiot take it if I don't. Nice guy, but an idiot, and everyone knows I'm far more suited. Don't know what to do.



Among the unhappiest times of my life were the times when I spent every Sunday dreading Monday morning and going back to the job I hated.
 
2014-04-14 11:29:17 AM  
This pretty much sounds like what my vision of Hell was like. Back when I was working, I just wanted to put in my 6-8 hours, go home, and forget work even existed.
 
2014-04-14 11:33:12 AM  

Nuuu: Whether it's banking, venture capital and private equity or law, everybody understands that the mortar in their ivory towers is bullshiat.  That goes as much for their hours as for their business-in-chief.


Well said. Been here 13 years. From my experience, getting actual work done is a tertiary reason for working late, behind 1) keeping up appearances and 2) sucking up to someone higher up who is busy with #1.
 
2014-04-14 11:37:23 AM  

gopher321: A higher position in my company is opening up again in the near future. I turned it down previously when it was offered for this exact reason - longer hours, higher stress. No regrets that time, but now I'm faced with the likely position of having an idiot take it if I don't. Nice guy, but an idiot, and everyone knows I'm far more suited. Don't know what to do.


You could take on the job but require an 8-5 work day. If there's too much work for the single position, then promote the idiot to your assistant, or something.

As far as TFA goes, I'd much rather work with someone who is creative and productive for a solid six hours a day and then goes home, than someone who does mediocre work for 10 or 12 hours. Leave the 10 and 12 hour days for when you're ramping up to a deadline or something.

Also, people need to recognize that more responsibility, authority, and money don't necessarily make them happier. Especially once you start looking at people making $100K plus- those people are way more worried about finances than the people who make $50-100K.
 
2014-04-14 12:11:13 PM  

gopher321: A higher position in my company is opening up again in the near future. I turned it down previously when it was offered for this exact reason - longer hours, higher stress. No regrets that time, but now I'm faced with the likely position of having an idiot take it if I don't. Nice guy, but an idiot, and everyone knows I'm far more suited. Don't know what to do.


Let the nice guy have the job then control him (your methods may vary) when something goes he is your fuse let him burn out while you remain the power behind the throne.

OM"H"O
 
2014-04-14 12:13:39 PM  

GoldSpider: Summary: people who work harder than you are going to infiltrate your field and make you look bad.


Exactly. Next they'll complain about how much more these people make (because they work harder).

It's basically the adult equivalent of the lazy kids in school whining about the kids who study blowing the curve.

/was a lazy kid but was self aware enough not to blame the hard working kids
 
2014-04-14 12:25:47 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Exactly. Next they'll complain about how much more these people make (because they work harder).

It's basically the adult equivalent of the lazy kids in school whining about the kids who study blowing the curve.

/was a lazy kid but was self aware enough not to blame the hard working kids



I disagree- at least at my workplace, the people who work incredibly long hours are the ones with horrible time management and/or aren't qualified to do their job. The competent people who move the organization forward are more often the types that have a regular family life and leave by 5:00 every day.

Like it was said before, someone who works 12-16 hours isn't actually 1.5-2.0x as productive as someone who works 8 hours. Depending on how they use those 12-16 hours and the nature of the work, it's entirely possible for them to be *less* productive.
 
2014-04-14 12:43:56 PM  
My wife works in finance.  The hours are, indeed, incredible, but it often depends on the position/area.  But yeah, I know stories of people showing up at work still not entirely sober after going out the night before.  For certain positions it's very much work very hard/party very hard.  I know a guy - true story - who was stopped at the Canadian border with trace amounts of coke on his (British) I.D.  He explained that he was in finance in New York and they let him go.

That same guy took several years of earnings, mustered out, and is raising two great daughters in Copenhagen.  Not everyone stays in -- they earn shiatloads of money, have heart attack-earning amounts of work, but many are smart enough to leave at a certain point and travel the world or teach yoga or whatever.

As for my wife and I... we have a ten-month old son and I'm having to pick up the slack rushing home to get him from day care.  We're getting closer to me taking care of him full-time.  She makes with her bonuses the same as I make yearly.
 
2014-04-14 12:48:22 PM  

Fubini: Debeo Summa Credo: Exactly. Next they'll complain about how much more these people make (because they work harder).

It's basically the adult equivalent of the lazy kids in school whining about the kids who study blowing the curve.

/was a lazy kid but was self aware enough not to blame the hard working kids


I disagree- at least at my workplace, the people who work incredibly long hours are the ones with horrible time management and/or aren't qualified to do their job. The competent people who move the organization forward are more often the types that have a regular family life and leave by 5:00 every day.

Like it was said before, someone who works 12-16 hours isn't actually 1.5-2.0x as productive as someone who works 8 hours. Depending on how they use those 12-16 hours and the nature of the work, it's entirely possible for them to be *less* productive.


^^This
I've worked in a real estate office and most of the "working time" seems to be about BSing with friends and planning fishing trips and then treating everything(!) like a freaking emergency because they procrastinated the hell of a project.

I quit because it wasn't worth the stress that rolled downhill onto my head
 
2014-04-14 12:48:46 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-14 12:56:11 PM  

JolobinSmokin: I'm posting this from bed at 9:35am and when I start working at noon, I'll probably be finished by 5pm.

I don't do this everyday, but most Mondays.


Yeah, when the headline said terrible work habits, I assumed they were only working 4 days /wk, 5 or 6 hours a day and still were making a shiat-ton of money.

That's making it (less work / more money).

Since starting my company in 1998, I work about 20 hrs / wk (in the aggregate) and cant imagine humping like that, no matter what I was paid.

/ almost noon... time to get to work
 
2014-04-14 01:00:15 PM  

TomD9938: JolobinSmokin: I'm posting this from bed at 9:35am and when I start working at noon, I'll probably be finished by 5pm.

I don't do this everyday, but most Mondays.

Yeah, when the headline said terrible work habits, I assumed they were only working 4 days /wk, 5 or 6 hours a day and still were making a shiat-ton of money.

That's making it (less work / more money).

Since starting my company in 1998, I work about 20 hrs / wk (in the aggregate) and cant imagine humping like that, no matter what I was paid.

/ almost noon... time to get to work


Internet high five
 
2014-04-14 01:46:16 PM  
I hate it when people who should know better think that Wall St. is made up of only "Sell-side" and investment bankers. The "Buy-side" companies are the ones who handle your pensions, mutual funds, and 401K money which, for the average Jill, is more important than anything an investment banker does. While money managers and researchers can put in some hard, hard hours it's not as bad as the sell-side or (God forbid) hedge funds.
 
2014-04-14 01:46:42 PM  
*sigh* The problem with working anything beyond 8 hours a day is your productivity and intelligence drops. The fact that Wall Street expects 10-14 hour days 6-7 days a week explains a lot about how such bad decisions get made. Working anything over 10 hours and not only does your productivity drop, but it starts to reverse itself as you make mistakes that will need to be fixed.
 
2014-04-14 02:12:17 PM  

Pentaxian: I hate it when people who should know better think that Wall St. is made up of only "Sell-side" and investment bankers. The "Buy-side" companies are the ones who handle your pensions, mutual funds, and 401K money which, for the average Jill, is more important than anything an investment banker does. While money managers and researchers can put in some hard, hard hours it's not as bad as the sell-side or (God forbid) hedge funds.


How would I go about finding out if board members work for both sides?
 
2014-04-14 02:41:13 PM  
I dont mind working a little bit extra but the hell if I will do a 12-16 hour day as a rule. Seen way too many of my friends get burnt out like that. At my current posting I have never had a problem with meeting my daily tasks in an 8 hour shift. The problems I have had that have kept me lately are late trucks and peoples mistakes. Still want to get transfered out of here to a site closer to home.
 
2014-04-14 03:00:46 PM  
Anyone who tells me that they work 50+ hours a week is simply announcing that they are either wasting time or doing shoddy work. It's well known that the longer you work the poorer your decision making and chance of making errors. Eight hours is about the limit you can put in and still maintain mental acuity. For most people it's lower.

My experience with office environments is that at least a quarter of the time is spent chatting with others. Extending the work day isn't going to produce better work, just more errors and resentment.
 
2014-04-14 03:31:03 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Anyone who tells me that they work 50+ hours a week is simply announcing that they are either wasting time or doing shoddy work. It's well known that the longer you work the poorer your decision making and chance of making errors. Eight hours is about the limit you can put in and still maintain mental acuity. For most people it's lower.

My experience with office environments is that at least a quarter of the time is spent chatting with others. Extending the work day isn't going to produce better work, just more errors and resentment.


That *might* be true for general people.  I consider myself a 'general' person, so I don't mean any disrespect to anyone.  But just because most people can only put in about 8 hours doesn't mean everyone can only put in about 8 hours.
 
2014-04-14 03:41:17 PM  

darkman2000: Fubini: Debeo Summa Credo: Exactly. Next they'll complain about how much more these people make (because they work harder).

It's basically the adult equivalent of the lazy kids in school whining about the kids who study blowing the curve.

/was a lazy kid but was self aware enough not to blame the hard working kids


I disagree- at least at my workplace, the people who work incredibly long hours are the ones with horrible time management and/or aren't qualified to do their job. The competent people who move the organization forward are more often the types that have a regular family life and leave by 5:00 every day.

Like it was said before, someone who works 12-16 hours isn't actually 1.5-2.0x as productive as someone who works 8 hours. Depending on how they use those 12-16 hours and the nature of the work, it's entirely possible for them to be *less* productive.

^^This
I've worked in a real estate office and most of the "working time" seems to be about BSing with friends and planning fishing trips and then treating everything(!) like a freaking emergency because they procrastinated the hell of a project.

I quit because it wasn't worth the stress that rolled downhill onto my head


Worked in a large office where one guy spent 9-5 chatting with co-workers and sucking up to mgmt.

5-11 he spent actually doing his job.

He hated his wife/home life and tried to spend as little time as possible there.
 
2014-04-14 03:50:53 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: That *might* be true for general people.  I consider myself a 'general' person, so I don't mean any disrespect to anyone.  But just because most people can only put in about 8 hours doesn't mean everyone can only put in about 8 hours.


That's a completely valid point, but it's also unrealistic to assume that most people in the finance industry just happens to be gifted type A personalities that do a solid 12-16 hours of work every day.

My wild-ass guess is that maybe 10% of the population has the stamina and skill to be super productive for more than eight hours at a time, and of those people, maybe 10% would actually want to. If you're that effective, chances are you've got a healthy set of non-work interests as well.
 
2014-04-14 03:51:45 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: That *might* be true for general people.  I consider myself a 'general' person, so I don't mean any disrespect to anyone.  But just because most people can only put in about 8 hours doesn't mean everyone can only put in about 8 hours.


Anyone can put in more than 8 hours. The vast majority of people start making an increasing number of mistakes after six, however. Maybe you're an outlier or maybe you've just got a smoking case of Dunning-Kruger.
 
2014-04-14 04:15:04 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Fark_Guy_Rob: That *might* be true for general people.  I consider myself a 'general' person, so I don't mean any disrespect to anyone.  But just because most people can only put in about 8 hours doesn't mean everyone can only put in about 8 hours.

Anyone can put in more than 8 hours. The vast majority of people start making an increasing number of mistakes after six, however. Maybe you're an outlier or maybe you've just got a smoking case of Dunning-Kruger.


I was way overworked and did 10-12 hours every day. I was getting scrwed though. When I left they replaced my workload with 2 1/2 people. I hung along fine for about 5 months before depression, amd productivity started to suffer. I had no time to chat, socialize or eat lunch. During that time. It paid well but I regret not quitting earlier.
 
2014-04-14 04:21:50 PM  

JolobinSmokin: I'm posting this from bed at 9:35am and when I start working at noon, I'll probably be finished by 5pm.

I don't do this everyday, but most Mondays.

I'll still make $800 today also.

Real estate appraiser FTW


Fist bump.  Had a one-minute workday one day last week...had to send an email.  I was done with work before my wife poured her coffee into her travel mug for her morning commute.

/hey, I could've sprained my 'send' finger you know
 
2014-04-14 04:29:14 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: GoldSpider: Summary: people who work harder than you are going to infiltrate your field and make you look bad.

Exactly. Next they'll complain about how much more these people make (because they work harder).

It's basically the adult equivalent of the lazy kids in school whining about the kids who study blowing the curve.

/was a lazy kid but was self aware enough not to blame the hard working kids


Eh, back when I worked for other people, the ratio I observed was about 50/50.

Ie, long hours had about a 50% chance of correlating with increased productivity.

On the other hand, I had several bosses who THOUGHT (as you do, apparently) that there was a 1-1 correlation.

There isn't, and two of those establishments are no longer in business, due to mismanagement.  The third outfit where I encountered a lot of that mindset was in the Army Reserves.
 
2014-04-14 05:07:41 PM  

gopher321: A higher position in my company is opening up again in the near future. I turned it down previously when it was offered for this exact reason - longer hours, higher stress. No regrets that time, but now I'm faced with the likely position of having an idiot take it if I don't. Nice guy, but an idiot, and everyone knows I'm far more suited. Don't know what to do.


Yeah that's a real tough one.. Wait, let me get this straight. The idiot is just the other guy or which one of you two idiots falls for the ploy to have a shiattier job for no reason? Sounds to me like only the idiot would consider taking it in the first place.
 
2014-04-14 05:14:39 PM  

cefm: They stay at work so long because they're unimaginative finance dullards who have no life outside of work.  Period.


I Have noticed over the years how to spot a horrible boss.

They are the ones that have a dysfunctional marriage or no life outside of work at all.

These are the people who do dumb shiat at work and make everyone else work late because essentially they hate their spouse or lives in general and can't bare going home at a normal hour.

These people are toxic, soul sucking asshats. Avoid them.
 
2014-04-14 05:26:56 PM  
So all of us should jump?
 
2014-04-14 05:50:47 PM  
When I was working for a Fortune 50 company, the mind set was an hour before your shift and an hour after your shift, uncompensated of course. Had to work a four hour block before you could claim overtime. However the upper bosses enjoyed "flex time" which they beat to death. Was not unusual to get e-mails or phone calls after hours either. And they demanded your cell phone number too.
The dollars / bennies was great and it could have been a beautiful place to work if it weren't for the back stabbing, ladder climbing, dickweeds  and dickweedettes that tried to make you look bad so they could look good.
 
2014-04-14 08:53:09 PM  
Ask most chain retail managers about wall street hours. I'm sure they will gladly trade both their hours and salary
 
2014-04-15 12:41:23 AM  

Pussies. Try being a software developer at a startup.

70+ hour weeks, trying to bring to life a set of ideas dreamed up by some other schmuck with deep pockets and unrealistic expectations. Eating and sleeping at the office, all your hobbies on hold, your relationships abandoned, all so you can put your blood, sweat, and tears into something that could become big - or could get dismissed out of hand by the dilettante funding the venture. Awakened at all hours, always on call, because a flaw in your code could keep many other, similar folks stuck in the office until you logged back in from home to fix it. The pressure not just to succeed, but to keep your skills current, to work in the continuing education that allowed you to get this job in the first place, and to keep abreast of technologies, methodologies, and efforts known only by a few others in your pressure-cooker world. If you're really lucky, and your startup enjoys ballistic success, your stock options become your retirement - but, as you're told every damned day, that will only happen if you put in more effort, more focus, more intensity. And you know, you know, that everyone else in the company is doing that, too. You also know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there are lots of other companies hot on the heels of your company's efforts. One slip, one missed date, one blown convention, and you're looking at failure.

Fark those Wall Street pussies. Like Jon Snow, they know nothing.
 
2014-04-15 12:42:45 AM  

Fubini: Debeo Summa Credo: Exactly. Next they'll complain about how much more these people make (because they work harder).

It's basically the adult equivalent of the lazy kids in school whining about the kids who study blowing the curve.

/was a lazy kid but was self aware enough not to blame the hard working kids


I disagree- at least at my workplace, the people who work incredibly long hours are the ones with horrible time management and/or aren't qualified to do their job. The competent people who move the organization forward are more often the types that have a regular family life and leave by 5:00 every day.

Like it was said before, someone who works 12-16 hours isn't actually 1.5-2.0x as productive as someone who works 8 hours. Depending on how they use those 12-16 hours and the nature of the work, it's entirely possible for them to be *less* productive.


DING DING DING!  We have a winner.
 
2014-04-15 01:25:55 AM  

FormlessOne: Pussies. Try being a software developer at a startup.70+ hour weeks, trying to bring to life a set of ideas dreamed up by some other schmuck with deep pockets and unrealistic expectations. Eating and sleeping at the office, all your hobbies on hold, your relationships abandoned, all so you can put your blood, sweat, and tears into something that could become big - or could get dismissed out of hand by the dilettante funding the venture. Awakened at all hours, always on call, because a flaw in your code could keep many other, similar folks stuck in the office until you logged back in from home to fix it. The pressure not just to succeed, but to keep your skills current, to work in the continuing education that allowed you to get this job in the first place, and to keep abreast of technologies, methodologies, and efforts known only by a few others in your pressure-cooker world. If you're really lucky, and your startup enjoys ballistic success, your stock options become your retirement - but, as you're told every damned day, that will only happen if you put in more effort, more focus, more intensity. And you know, you know, that everyone else in the company is doing that, too. You also know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there are lots of other companies hot on the heels of your company's efforts. One slip, one missed date, one blown convention, and you're looking at failure.

Fark those Wall Street pussies. Like Jon Snow, they know nothing.


If you hate it so much, why didn't you get a corporate job for some Initech wannabe?
 
2014-04-15 05:40:45 AM  
I once had an entire separate department complain I was leaving at 5. There was a large project and I finished my portion (all I was qualified or allowed to do) ahead of schedule while the accounting department farted around recreationally talking half the day, and then had the audacity to both complain about working long hours and that I was leaving on time while they stayed late.

It was a real dick move on their part, especially considering they were only staying late for appearances. Also, the joy of working a job where you know you have zero chance for advancement and raises are frozen is that you don't give a shiat about appearances.
 
2014-04-15 07:48:34 AM  
Nah, its not going to ruin us all.  This is the only life we get and I am not going to waste it spending more time grinding it out in a job than I absolutely have to.  What would all that extra work get me?  A few more toys I don't need?  I already have more luxury items and eat better food than 99.999% of the humans that came before me.   J.P. Morgan didn't have an iPhone or air conditioning.  I do.
 
2014-04-15 01:27:36 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Fark_Guy_Rob: That *might* be true for general people.  I consider myself a 'general' person, so I don't mean any disrespect to anyone.  But just because most people can only put in about 8 hours doesn't mean everyone can only put in about 8 hours.

Anyone can put in more than 8 hours. The vast majority of people start making an increasing number of mistakes after six, however. Maybe you're an outlier or maybe you've just got a smoking case of Dunning-Kruger.


No need to make it personal; I never made any claim about my ability to work.  Still, I don't see any reason to think that people who can work long hours don't self-select into careers/industries where that is an asset.  Look at the NBA - do they represent the general population.  No.  Should they?  No.  The financial industry as a whole is comprised mostly of low-level employees, right?  For every CEO running a 500 employee company, you have 499 other employees - 450+ of which are just regular working stiffs.  But when you start talking about the CEOs and the CTOs and the top traders - we'll, now we are talking about a very small subset of people.

Being tall doesn't make you good at basketball.  But it is an asset and most of the best basketball players are, overwhelmingly tall.
Working long hours doesn't make you good at your job.  But it is an asset and most of the best workers on wall street, overwhelmingly do.

I'm not claiming I'm tall, or that I work long hours.  I'm just claiming that it seems perfectly reasonable to me that both

1.)  Most people suck at working long hours and
2.)  People (especially top people) in certain industries (like finance) work long, yet productive, hours.

Most human related things follow a normal distribution....I won't pretend to know what the standard deviation would be, but certainly if there are people who can run a four minute mile while the median American would probably be lucky to do it in ten....I have to think there are plenty of people who can't work more than 5-6 hours per day and others who can work 10-12, productively.
 
2014-04-15 06:40:49 PM  

gopher321: A higher position in my company is opening up again in the near future. I turned it down previously when it was offered for this exact reason - longer hours, higher stress. No regrets that time, but now I'm faced with the likely position of having an idiot take it if I don't. Nice guy, but an idiot, and everyone knows I'm far more suited. Don't know what to do.


Take it.  Try if for three months, and see if it is as thankless and stressful as you think.  If so, start looking outside the company, and parlay the new position into a higher salary bid elsewhere.
 
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