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(NPR)   Is Iran finally getting on board with that whole 21st century thingy?   (npr.org) divider line 62
    More: Interesting, Iran, Islamic Revolution, Hassan Rowhani, rapprochement, hardliners, Khamenei  
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8131 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Apr 2014 at 10:07 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



62 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-13 10:08:19 AM  
Nope
 
2014-04-13 10:12:17 AM  
Unlikely tag must have been at its stoning under charges of adultery.
 
2014-04-13 10:16:43 AM  
What do you mean "finally"? Unless you mean their government. The population is pretty western-friendly.
 
2014-04-13 10:18:05 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: What do you mean "finally"? Unless you mean their government. The population is pretty western-friendly.


They were also doing quite well until America set them up for where they are today.
 
2014-04-13 10:20:17 AM  
Did Subby mean to ask if Iran is finally recovering from having its modern, elected government overthrown by the US and replaced with a dictator? Unfortunately we're likely far away from that point.
 
2014-04-13 10:22:21 AM  
The "man on the street" of Iran, especially in the urban parts of the country, has always been fairly modern and pro-Western. Iran is also a very  young country. Their baby boom makes the US baby boom look like nothing, and these young kids are just coming of age in a country that's repressive and lacks opportunity. That's not a formula that promotes conservative values. Couple that with their access to the Internet, the decades of quiet subversion that they've practiced- the nation is unstable as it is.

There are basically only two paths open to Iran- reform (which is the route things are taking right now), or a violent, bloody crackdown. There are some powerful people who would prefer the latter, and they have what essentially amounts to a private army that could make that happen. They realize, though, that lighting that match will create an uncontrolled situation, and they don't have enough power to make sure they come out on top.
 
2014-04-13 10:22:25 AM  

BafflerMeal: cameroncrazy1984: What do you mean "finally"? Unless you mean their government. The population is pretty western-friendly.

They were also doing quite well until America set them up for where they are today.


You mean they were doing well till we made them stormed our embassy and support terrorism?

//troll on
 
2014-04-13 10:23:00 AM  
21st Century? Whoa there. Let's see how they handle the 1960's first.
 
2014-04-13 10:25:21 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: What do you mean "finally"? Unless you mean their government. The population is pretty western-friendly.


That probably also depends on where you are. Tehran, maybe. Out in goat country, probably not so much.

//kinda like us
//except for the goat part
 
2014-04-13 10:25:59 AM  
img.xcitefun.net

Meanwhile, at the beach...
 
2014-04-13 10:26:29 AM  
I hope so.  It would be great for the United States.  But it would be really great for the Iranian people.
 
2014-04-13 10:26:34 AM  

Arkanaut: cameroncrazy1984: What do you mean "finally"? Unless you mean their government. The population is pretty western-friendly.

That probably also depends on where you are. Tehran, maybe. Out in goat country, probably not so much.

//kinda like us
//except for the goat part


Sounds a little like the red and blue divide in America.
 
2014-04-13 10:27:07 AM  
Mmmm. Hot Persian girls.
 
2014-04-13 10:27:14 AM  

generallyso: Did Subby mean to ask if Iran is finally recovering from having its modern, elected government overthrown by the US and replaced with a dictator? Unfortunately we're likely far away from that point.


So how long is it ok to hold a grudge?

Should people in the US still hold a grudge against Britain? Japan? Germany? The Vietnamese?
 
2014-04-13 10:29:47 AM  

Arkanaut: 21st Century? Whoa there. Let's see how they handle the 1960's first.


That's basically where they're at, demographically. Their mid/late-80s baby-boom is coming into adulthood and finding that they're dissatisfied with the conservative state of society, with their economic opportunities, with their nation's relationship with foreign countries. They aren't "in" the system yet, and hence really have very little to lose.

It's not a perfect match, obviously- the US never really had a theocratic paramilitary organization that can be used to crack down on dissent, nor has the US ever gotten into the habit of hiring mercenaries from neighboring countries for the same purpose. It is  far from an idyllic future for Iran, but there's one thing that's certain: dramatic change is going to happen over the next decade.
 
2014-04-13 10:30:22 AM  

mutterfark: Sounds a little like the red and blue divide in America.


Take that and multiply it by 1000, and you're close.
 
2014-04-13 10:38:34 AM  

jaybeezey: generallyso: Did Subby mean to ask if Iran is finally recovering from having its modern, elected government overthrown by the US and replaced with a dictator? Unfortunately we're likely far away from that point.

So how long is it ok to hold a grudge?

Should people in the US still hold a grudge against Britain? Japan? Germany? The Vietnamese?


I used to work around a Boomer (Vietnam Vet)  who probably still hates them....(he's long retired, so at least I don't have to listen to his 'herp & derp any more....)
 
2014-04-13 10:43:06 AM  
It's been like this forever. The wealthy have enough power to ignore the morality police. The regular citizen does not.
 
2014-04-13 10:43:21 AM  

t3knomanser: mutterfark: Sounds a little like the red and blue divide in America.

Take that and multiply it by 1000, and you're close.


You are correct. I wasn't trying to troll or draw a direct comparison, it just caught my eye as a bit similar.
 
2014-04-13 10:45:25 AM  

ohsoferrety: [img.xcitefun.net image 500x346]

Meanwhile, at the beach...


www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-04-13 10:46:31 AM  

jaybeezey: generallyso: Did Subby mean to ask if Iran is finally recovering from having its modern, elected government overthrown by the US and replaced with a dictator? Unfortunately we're likely far away from that point.

So how long is it ok to hold a grudge?

Should people in the US still hold a grudge against Britain? Japan? Germany? The Vietnamese?


Cuba...
 
2014-04-13 10:49:14 AM  

jaybeezey: So how long is it ok to hold a grudge?


Over two thousand years for a lot of religious people.....
 
2014-04-13 10:49:16 AM  
i.chzbgr.com
 
2014-04-13 10:49:42 AM  
Oddly enough, it was called The Paris Of The Middle East back before the revolution. 'Persepolis' is an excellent film on that whole subject, plus excellent film in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PXHeKuBzPY
 
2014-04-13 10:53:29 AM  
t3knomanser: The "man on the street" of Iran, especially in the urban parts of the country, has always been fairly modern and pro-Western. Iran is also a very  young country. Their baby boom makes the US baby boom look like nothing, and these young kids are just coming of age in a country that's repressive and lacks opportunity. That's not a formula that promotes conservative values. Couple that with their access to the Internet, the decades of quiet subversion that they've practiced- the nation is unstable as it is.

There are basically only two paths open to Iran- reform (which is the route things are taking right now), or a violent, bloody crackdown. There are some powerful people who would prefer the latter, and they have what essentially amounts to a private army that could make that happen. They realize, though, that lighting that match will create an uncontrolled situation, and they don't have enough power to make sure they come out on top.


I remember seeing a Rick Steves special on the place; didn't seem anywhere near as backward as westerners think. Yeah, still not a high-falootin' good time over there, but it's no Somalia or North Korea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61uriEGsIM
 
2014-04-13 10:54:12 AM  
War with Iraq, blowing up passenger airliners, overthrowing liberal democracies and putting dictators in charge. What a bunch of savages!
 
2014-04-13 10:56:55 AM  

ohsoferrety: [img.xcitefun.net image 500x346]

Meanwhile, at the beach...


i60.tinypic.com
 
2014-04-13 10:57:58 AM  

kling_klang_bed: Oddly enough, it was called The Paris Of The Middle East back before the revolution. 'Persepolis' is an excellent film on that whole subject, plus excellent film in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PXHeKuBzPY


They were pretty hip in the 60s

http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/iranica/pictures-of-iran/old-tehran-1960s - 1970s-part-i/
 
2014-04-13 10:59:14 AM  
Galius_Persnickety
War with Iraq, blowing up passenger airliners, overthrowing liberal democracies and putting dictators in charge. What a bunch of savages!


What passenger airliners did the US blow up?
 
2014-04-13 10:59:20 AM  

fjnorton: You mean they were doing well till we made them stormed our embassy and support terrorism?


Do you normally start reading books by opening to the middle?
 
2014-04-13 11:00:07 AM  

The Voice of Doom: Galius_Persnickety
War with Iraq, blowing up passenger airliners, overthrowing liberal democracies and putting dictators in charge. What a bunch of savages!

What passenger airliners did the US blow up?


Now you've done it.
 
2014-04-13 11:00:26 AM  

SurelyShirley: ohsoferrety: [img.xcitefun.net image 500x346]

Meanwhile, at the beach...

[i60.tinypic.com image 463x356]


Says one of five wives.
 
2014-04-13 11:01:39 AM  

eas81: [i.chzbgr.com image 450x600]


How cute... you're still posting pics of  Ahmadinejad.
 
2014-04-13 11:03:12 AM  

The Voice of Doom: Galius_Persnickety
War with Iraq, blowing up passenger airliners, overthrowing liberal democracies and putting dictators in charge. What a bunch of savages!

What passenger airliners did the US blow up?


This one
 
2014-04-13 11:09:07 AM  
Axis of Evil
 
2014-04-13 11:09:25 AM  
SurelyShirley
This one


Ah yeah, right, that one. Thanks.
 
2014-04-13 11:14:55 AM  

SurelyShirley: The Voice of Doom: Galius_Persnickety
War with Iraq, blowing up passenger airliners, overthrowing liberal democracies and putting dictators in charge. What a bunch of savages!

What passenger airliners did the US blow up?

This one


To be fair, the captain did claim it was "Coming right for us!"
 
2014-04-13 12:00:22 PM  

generallyso: Did Subby mean to ask if Iran is finally recovering from having its modern, elected government overthrown by the US and replaced with a dictator? Unfortunately we're likely far away from that point.


To be fair, the US has pulled that move on a few nations (or tried to, in some cases), but most of them didn't hand over the reins to religious fundies afterwards.
And as popular some of Mosaddegh's policies were with many people, he was by all accounts a secular and by the time the CIA overthrew him, he had already lost support with the Ayatollahs and their cohorts. He called for elections in late 1951, then suspended them afterwards because of "foreign agents" interference - or more likely realizing that most of the provincial votes would go to the clerics. Tehran is a nice power base to have, but it's not Iran...

Within the ME the Iranians on the whole are perhaps most western-friendly (or at least neutral) of the bunch, with the exception of Israel. But that's not saying all that much really.
 
2014-04-13 12:06:44 PM  
No
 
2014-04-13 12:12:26 PM  

ohsoferrety: [img.xcitefun.net image 500x346]

Meanwhile, at the beach...


Beach ninjas?
 
2014-04-13 12:24:15 PM  

kling_klang_bed: Oddly enough, it was called The Paris Of The Middle East back before the revolution. 'Persepolis' is an excellent film on that whole subject, plus excellent film in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PXHeKuBzPY


Actually, Beirut was called the Paris of the Middle East.  Still a shiathole though.

/half-Lebanese
 
2014-04-13 12:28:02 PM  
More likely, the 21st century is finally getting on board with Iran.

/all in the name of "progress"
//progressing right back to an "enlightened" 7th century civilization
 
2014-04-13 12:33:08 PM  
TheLads69: kling_klang_bed: Oddly enough, it was called The Paris Of The Middle East back before the revolution. 'Persepolis' is an excellent film on that whole subject, plus excellent film in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PXHeKuBzPY

Actually, Beirut was called the Paris of the Middle East.  Still a shiathole though.

/half-Lebanese


Yep, I remember that episode of No Reservations there, where Bourdain almost got his hotel bombed. Doesn't sound like a stable place at all.
 
2014-04-13 12:48:29 PM  

austin_millbarge: fjnorton: You mean they were doing well till we made them stormed our embassy and support terrorism?

Do you normally start reading books by opening to the middle?


LOL. Nice comeback. Still the Shah of Iran thing is no excuse to kill innocent people.
 
2014-04-13 12:50:32 PM  

fjnorton: You mean they were doing well till we made them stormed our embassy and support terrorism?


Perhaps he's thinking of that whole "overthrew an elected president to install a despotic and dictatorial Shah" business?
 
2014-04-13 01:00:10 PM  
Consumerism is the most irresistible 'ism'
 
2014-04-13 01:12:43 PM  

neaorin: generallyso: Did Subby mean to ask if Iran is finally recovering from having its modern, elected government overthrown by the US and replaced with a dictator? Unfortunately we're likely far away from that point.

To be fair, the US has pulled that move on a few nations (or tried to, in some cases), but most of them didn't hand over the reins to religious fundies afterwards.
And as popular some of Mosaddegh's policies were with many people, he was by all accounts a secular and by the time the CIA overthrew him, he had already lost support with the Ayatollahs and their cohorts. He called for elections in late 1951, then suspended them afterwards because of "foreign agents" interference - or more likely realizing that most of the provincial votes would go to the clerics. Tehran is a nice power base to have, but it's not Iran...

Within the ME the Iranians on the whole are perhaps most western-friendly (or at least neutral) of the bunch, with the exception of Israel. But that's not saying all that much really.


If they were smart, the Iranians would be cultivating a relationship with the US instead of going on about us being The Great Satan and such.  The Arab nations to the west have never been friendly.  The militants and theocrats to the east are hopelessly backward.  To the north are the ever more aggressive Russians.  Iran is pretty isolated.
 
2014-04-13 01:34:00 PM  

mutterfark: Arkanaut: cameroncrazy1984: What do you mean "finally"? Unless you mean their government. The population is pretty western-friendly.

That probably also depends on where you are. Tehran, maybe. Out in goat country, probably not so much.

//kinda like us
//except for the goat part

Sounds a little like the red and blue divide in America.


Iran has the Morality Police.

We have the Tea Party, who would likely be fine with establishing the Morality Police here.
 
2014-04-13 01:35:40 PM  

Persnickety: If they were smart, the Iranians would be cultivating a relationship with the US instead of going on about us being The Great Satan and such.


Lets see, the United States supported a dictator in Iran. Then, when Saddam Hussein launched an invasion of Iran, using weapons of mass destruction, the United States supported him. Iranians watched as he used mustard gas, nerve agents, and other chemical weapons on border towns, affecting men, women, and children. Then, a president got up on the world stage and proclaimed Iran part of an "axis of evil" while launching military invasions into countries on both the eastern and western borders. They've been hit with crippling sanctions while trying to develop a nuclear power program that they see as their national right under the Non-Nuclear Proliferation Treaty. The United States made a complete mess out of the Iraq War, and then, in the ironic statement of the century, screamed about Iranian "foreign interference" in Iraq as if they have no interest on what happens on the other side of their border.

Iran isn't blameless in this, and they've done many, many things wrong. But it's not like the US has rolled out the welcome mat here.
 
2014-04-13 01:38:18 PM  
I should probably also say there's barely a week that goes by where we don't hear discussion in the media about whether we should bomb Iran, and politicians have regularly called for military strikes on Iran.

Can you imagine what we would do if a country regularly ran articles in their paper saying "it's time to bomb the US before it's too late?"
 
2014-04-13 01:41:56 PM  

Persnickety: If they were smart, the Iranians would be cultivating a relationship with the US instead of going on about us being The Great Satan and such.


Which, the new president is doing. It's a start. A lot of the mullahs have started to notice which way the wind is blowing, and they're trying to shift towards a more moderate position (which will allow them to keep power and privilege- something that almost certainly won't happen if the public actively opposes them).
 
2014-04-13 01:44:57 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Lets see, the United States supported a dictator in Iran. Then, when Saddam Hussein launched an invasion of Iran, using weapons of mass destruction, the United States supported him. Iranians watched as he used mustard gas, nerve agents, and other chemical weapons on border towns, affecting men, women, and children.


I don't disagree with you that America has done a crapload of things wrong.  But one comment....when the militants from Iran took a group of Americans hostage, there was massive media coverage of the population of Iran screaming "death to America".....constantly on every news outlet for more than a year.

Unfortunately this played into decisions that led to other unfortunate events.  Not making any justification, but the hostage thing got everyone very angry.
 
2014-04-13 01:57:37 PM  

ristst: mutterfark: Arkanaut: cameroncrazy1984: What do you mean "finally"? Unless you mean their government. The population is pretty western-friendly.

That probably also depends on where you are. Tehran, maybe. Out in goat country, probably not so much.

//kinda like us
//except for the goat part

Sounds a little like the red and blue divide in America.

Iran has the Morality Police.

We have the Tea Party, who would likely be fine with establishing the Morality Police here.


As pointed out to me above, it's a matter degree. Life in America is not comparable to life in Iran. We have it  muchbetter. I would agree with the idea that it doesn't mean we should condone idiocy, or fail to point it out..

/ok, you can all stop pointing now ;p
 
2014-04-13 01:57:51 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Persnickety: If they were smart, the Iranians would be cultivating a relationship with the US instead of going on about us being The Great Satan and such.

Lets see, the United States supported a dictator in Iran. Then, when Saddam Hussein launched an invasion of Iran, using weapons of mass destruction, the United States supported him. Iranians watched as he used mustard gas, nerve agents, and other chemical weapons on border towns, affecting men, women, and children. Then, a president got up on the world stage and proclaimed Iran part of an "axis of evil" while launching military invasions into countries on both the eastern and western borders. They've been hit with crippling sanctions while trying to develop a nuclear power program that they see as their national right under the Non-Nuclear Proliferation Treaty. The United States made a complete mess out of the Iraq War, and then, in the ironic statement of the century, screamed about Iranian "foreign interference" in Iraq as if they have no interest on what happens on the other side of their border.

Iran isn't blameless in this, and they've done many, many things wrong. But it's not like the US has rolled out the welcome mat here.


So you're saying that except for the coup over 60 years ago, America has had no direct involvement in Iran?  Gee, no wonder the hate us.  70 years ago we we're bombing the ever living shiat out of Germany and Japan.

Besides, I'm not saying we're ever going to be best buds.  Politics makes strange bedfellows.  I'm saying we're a better option than their immediate neighbors who have actively hated them for centuries, are hopelessly backward or are actively aggressive.
 
2014-04-13 02:25:40 PM  

SurelyShirley: ohsoferrety: [img.xcitefun.net image 500x346]

Meanwhile, at the beach...

[i60.tinypic.com image 463x356]


It's a nice illustration of false equivalence, I suppose.
 
2014-04-13 03:01:39 PM  
I was born after the Iranian hostage crisis, so I've never lived through anything (that I'm aware of) that would engender any hostility in me towards Iran. Quite the opposite: I love Iranian food, traditional Persian music (santoor, kamanche, and setar are absolutely beautiful instruments), and the ancient history buff in me reveres Iran on the same level as Egypt, Greece, and Mesopotamia. Frankly, I'm really hoping relations open up between our countries sometime in my lifetime, as I would love to go there as a tourist without having to worry.

Having studied a bit about why we have the relationship with Iran that we currently do, I can't say I blame the Iranians, either. Sure, the hostage crisis and terrorism are to be condemned, but we started the whole mess. And just like most of out involvement in that area of the world, it all goes back to our government, and the rich backers thereof, wanting to deprive the populace of control of their natural petroleum resources. So I give a hearty "Fark you!" to BP and the rest of the oil companies for ruining my ability to safely visit a culture I have a deep respect for and interest in.
 
2014-04-13 03:05:18 PM  
Time to beat on all you pro-westerners, goodie two shoes, liberals, feminists, and allah forbid, anyone who wants to vote for a democratically elected government representing the will of the people. Signed CPT Big Stick of the Basij  volunteer militia.
 
2014-04-13 04:17:14 PM  
Should actually be known as the Madonna Counter Revolution.

And that's how many oppressive governments have been overthrown. Pop music, Internet, Movies, High Tech, and time.
 
2014-04-13 05:56:18 PM  

fjnorton: You mean they were doing well till we made them stormed our embassy and support terrorism?

//troll on


This level of ignorance ...

Read up on the  Iran Coup 1953, where the CIA and British forces overthrew Iran's democratically elected president.
 
2014-04-14 01:13:24 AM  
Are there ski slopes in Iran? (Wow.) I could believe sand dunes for sure.
 
2014-04-14 12:00:39 PM  

memebot_of_doom: fjnorton: You mean they were doing well till we made them stormed our embassy and support terrorism?

//troll on

This level of ignorance ...

Read up on the  Iran Coup 1953, where the CIA and British forces overthrew Iran's democratically elected president.


Actually he was the Prime Minister, a position he wasn't elected to. He was named PM by the Parliament.
I mean, I wouldn't have said anything, because the guy WAS pretty popular... but it's right there in your link and you were calling him ignorant and all that.
 
2014-04-14 12:34:12 PM  

SurelyShirley: ohsoferrety: [img.xcitefun.net image 500x346]

Meanwhile, at the beach...

[i60.tinypic.com image 463x356]


I must have missed the memo that requires western women to wear bikinis and sunglasses.
 
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