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(Science Magazine)   In New York City, 22 year old Measles Mary contracted measles and passed it along to four others. Difficulty: all five of these people should have been immune. Measles Mary and two of the others had actually been vaccinated   (news.sciencemag.org ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Measles Mary, New York City, Clinical Infectious Diseases, Typhoid Mary, measles vaccine, measles, respiratory tract infections  
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5757 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Apr 2014 at 11:02 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-13 12:42:29 AM  

DarkVader: Well, dynamite requires a license now.



From that form...
Type of magazine (e.g., permanent, mobile/portable, indoor/outdoor, building, igloo, tunnel, dugout, box, trailer, semitrailer, or other mobile magazine): 

Igloo?
 
2014-04-13 12:44:00 AM  

whatshisname: I was at a party recently and asked a few otherwise intelligent people if they'd had the flu vaccine and they looked at me like I'd asked them to  test some sort of new pharmaceutical. There's still a lot of ignorance out there.


I have never EVER had the flu, in my entire life (not including stomach flu which isn't actually flu at all). 40 years, flu free and no vaccine. I realize that flu vaccine is very important for people who are in high risk catagories, and getting a flu shot is on my list of things I will do on my 60th birthday (I'm getting a tattoo on my 50th).  But I don't understand getting vaccinated for a disease I never get (despite being regularly exposed to it) especially when the vaccine is only for strains that are projected to be big that year, not neccessarily strains that actually happen.  I forget if it was last year or the year before last where people who had the shot actually had higher instances of the flu, but it was fairly recently.

The day they make a flu vaccine that covers all strains, I will be first in line to get it.  But the biggest problem with flu vaccine is that there is no one flu.  There are literally thousands of different strains of flu.  Can you imagine if there were thousands of different strains of polio and every year you got a shot that worked against a dozen of them and you better hope to God no other strains come out that year or you'd be in a wheelchair the rest of your life?

That is just me, but it's not a position of ignorance.
 
2014-04-13 12:46:19 AM  
Sweet mother of gawd thats a lot of damned needles GAAAAH!
 
2014-04-13 12:49:35 AM  

hardinparamedic: doglover: QED Outside of pediatrics, it's easy to discount any illnesses that kills only babies as non-fatal because everything can potentially kill babies, even honey.

Unfortunately, there's a significant amount of the population walking around today who are immunocompromised for one reason or another - transplant, cancer treatment, medicine regiment, etc.


There's no pathogen that won't kill you if your body can't fight it. That doesn't mean any of those pathogens are deadly as a rule. What it means is your immune system is hella important.
 
2014-04-13 12:50:21 AM  

doglover: hardinparamedic: doglover: QED Outside of pediatrics, it's easy to discount any illnesses that kills only babies as non-fatal because everything can potentially kill babies, even honey.

Unfortunately, there's a significant amount of the population walking around today who are immunocompromised for one reason or another - transplant, cancer treatment, medicine regiment, etc.

There's no pathogen that won't kill you if your body can't fight it. That doesn't mean any of those pathogens are deadly as a rule. What it means is your immune system is hella important.


However, death is not the only outcome.
 
2014-04-13 12:50:44 AM  

Ambivalence: The day they make a flu vaccine that covers all strains, I will be first in line to get it.


This statement sort of sums up the level of knowledge that most anti-vaxxers are working with.
 
2014-04-13 12:53:24 AM  
Anyone not needing theirs, I'll take an extra. I wouldn't mind a booster. Granted I rarely leave my cave but when I do I don't want to be infected by all you crazy people.
 
2014-04-13 01:03:27 AM  

jmcgeathy: Frederick has been the main "stop being pussies, it's didn't kill me" anti vaccine troll in the thread. Most of this is directed in that direction. :)


I'm not anti-vaccine in the least.  Thats a lie.
 
2014-04-13 01:04:01 AM  

whatshisname: Ambivalence: The day they make a flu vaccine that covers all strains, I will be first in line to get it.

This statement sort of sums up the level of knowledge that most anti-vaxxers are working with.


Sadly, yep.
 
2014-04-13 01:04:08 AM  

whatshisname: Ambivalence: The day they make a flu vaccine that covers all strains, I will be first in line to get it.

This statement sort of sums up the level of knowledge that most anti-vaxxers are working with.


I'm not an anti-vaxxer.  I have been vacinated and get regular boosters for almost every commonly vaccinated disease. I have 0 incidents of flu.  That is fairly remarkable considering how common flu is and considering how old I am.  I never even had flu as a child.  A yearly flu shot is not going to give me fewer than 0 incidents of flu, and it could possibly give me more than 0 incidents of flu.

If I ever get my first flu, then I'll start getting vacinated for it. Or when I enter a high risk catagory, then I'll get vaccinated.  Until then, I'm not going to fark with success. The flu vaccine, as it is now, is a craps shoot.  Maybe you get a good one that covers all the strains for the year, maybe you don't.
 
2014-04-13 01:05:56 AM  

doglover: No, but I am a pragmatist. Honey is an amazing product. You can go down to egypt, dig up a mummy's tomb, and if there's any offerings of honey left over you can probably still eat it. I wouldn't, but you can do this thing. It's amazingly antimicrobial. In fact, there's only one harmless pathogen that hangs out in honey, but it can kill babies. Something that never spoils is usually already spoiled to babies. But once they grow up, crank out a few T cells and get some dirt on 'em, they're good to go.


Did you ever think maybe it's the mummy's curse that's killing the babies and not the honey?

Perhaps you shouldn't be digging up the final resting places of God-kings and redistributing their offerings to mortals. Death of the Firstborn is probably the least of your worries when you're farking around with shiat like that.

Try giving someone else's baby modern honey not stolen from the tombs of ancient patriarchs at the same time if you're going to do that. You know, like a control group or something. Only with curses instead of microbial pathogens.
 
2014-04-13 01:07:58 AM  

hardinparamedic: meat0918: Are those really different colored needles?!?!?

Man, I hate nbeedasles *thud*

Well, IV needles. White-Yellow-Blue-Pink-Green-Silver-Orange-Black denote size from 26 ga to 12/10ga.


Do you ever f*ck with the patients and ask them what size IV needle they want, just to see how many beg for the lower numbered one?
 
2014-04-13 01:09:07 AM  

Ambivalence: I have never EVER had the flu, in my entire life (not including stomach flu which isn't actually flu at all). 40 years, flu free and no vaccine. I realize that flu vaccine is very important for people who are in high risk catagories, and getting a flu shot is on my list of things I will do on my 60th birthday (I'm getting a tattoo on my 50th).


Viruses exist because we allow them to spread. When you get it, you will pass it on to others, who will pass it on again - and there are better than even odds that by some concatenation of infections, you will pass the disease on to someone who dies from it, maybe even someone you know and love.

But I don't understand getting vaccinated for a disease I never get (despite being regularly exposed to it) especially when the vaccine is only for strains that are projected to be big that year, not neccessarily strains that actually happen.

There are generally 2 or 3 strains that are frequent any given year. By studying what strains are carried by migratory birds in south Asia (which spread through small farms in Asia that raise fowl and pigs, to humans in Asia, and then to the rest of the world), more often than not, all the actively spreading strains are included in the vaccine. The 2003-04 flu season is cited as a bad year, because the vaccine "only" protected against the strains contracted by about 60% of infected unvaccinated people.

I forget if it was last year or the year before last where people who had the shot actually had higher instances of the flu, but it was fairly recently.

Possibly in raw numbers, but a very large fraction of the people who receive the vaccine are mandated to do so because they are in contact with highly contagious populations (school teachers) and/or highly at-risk populations (hospitals). If those people are 100 times as exposed to the flu than the public at large, and the vaccine is, say, only 60% effective, then they would still get the flu 40 times as often as the general public - but less than half as frequently as they would without the vaccine.

The day they make a flu vaccine that covers all strains, I will be first in line to get it.  But the biggest problem with flu vaccine is that there is no one flu.  There are literally thousands of different strains of flu.  Can you imagine if there were thousands of different strains of polio and every year you got a shot that worked against a dozen of them and you better hope to God no other strains come out that year or you'd be in a wheelchair the rest of your life?

So you're being forced to play russian roulette, and someone offers to take out a few bullets. And you say no because there are still bullets in the gun?

That is just me, but it's not a position of ignorance.

Just a position of hubris.
 
2014-04-13 01:11:57 AM  

Enigmamf: So you're being forced to play russian roulette, and someone offers to take out a few bullets. And you say no because there are still bullets in the gun?


Okay, so there are anti-vaxxers, and apparently there are vaxxer evangelicals and I don't particularly want to be in either group so I'm going to step away from this discussion.

Good night.
 
2014-04-13 01:15:14 AM  

Ambivalence: Okay, so there are anti-vaxxers, and apparently there are vaxxer evangelicals and I don't particularly want to be in either group so I'm going to step away from this discussion.

Good night.


The only way to win is to not play.
 
2014-04-13 01:15:21 AM  

ox45tallboy: hardinparamedic: meat0918: Are those really different colored needles?!?!?

Man, I hate nbeedasles *thud*

Well, IV needles. White-Yellow-Blue-Pink-Green-Silver-Orange-Black denote size from 26 ga to 12/10ga.

Do you ever f*ck with the patients and ask them what size IV needle they want, just to see how many beg for the lower numbered one?


Yikes No, but back in the day I have worked with people who did that to drunk drivers.

Contrary to my FARKsona, I'm a pretty nice guy. :)
 
2014-04-13 01:20:37 AM  

hardinparamedic: ox45tallboy: hardinparamedic: meat0918: Are those really different colored needles?!?!?

Man, I hate nbeedasles *thud*

Well, IV needles. White-Yellow-Blue-Pink-Green-Silver-Orange-Black denote size from 26 ga to 12/10ga.

Do you ever f*ck with the patients and ask them what size IV needle they want, just to see how many beg for the lower numbered one?

Yikes No, but back in the day I have worked with people who did that to drunk drivers.

Contrary to my FARKsona, I'm a pretty nice guy. :)


You're not. All good medics are assholes.
 
2014-04-13 01:30:02 AM  
Meh, the measles vaccine is one of the somewhat less effective ones.  Hell, I got measles when I was a kid, even though I was vaccinated.

That said, this isn't an excuse not to vaccinate.  Some protection is better than none, and none is exactly what the anti-vaxxers want.
 
2014-04-13 01:37:45 AM  
Immunosuppressed person here, thanks for making me scared to leave the house. Fark you deniers very, very, very much.

/Also had shingles (in January) and was told on my meds I can totes get it again and again.
//Vicodin did nothing and if you'd offered me heroin during the worst of it I would've said yes, and that was with fast top-of-the-line antivirals.
 
2014-04-13 01:44:46 AM  

Frederick: Ambivalence: Okay, so there are anti-vaxxers, and apparently there are vaxxer evangelicals and I don't particularly want to be in either group so I'm going to step away from this discussion.

Good night.

The only way to win is to not play.


t3.gstatic.com
 
2014-04-13 01:53:39 AM  

Frederick: I had the measles (and chicken pox) as a kid.  It's not polio or aids.  Quit being pussies.  And take your damn bicycle helmet off, your riding on the farking bike path.


If they filmed the movie "E.T." today, all of t

Frederick: Ambivalence: JoieD'Zen: Frederick: I had the measles (and chicken pox) as a kid.  It's not polio or aids.  Quit being pussies.  And take your damn bicycle helmet off, your riding on the farking bike path.

It wasn't uncommon for parents (50-60's) to expose their kids to another that was sick with mumps or chickenpox so they would get it and be immune.
No helmets and setbelts either.
None of us died or had all these bs 'disorders' either.

Actually, kids did die (even of chicken pox).  That's kind of why they made the vaccines in the first place.

Good thing we got rid of all those cars killing children.


And the guns. They're all gone now, thank goodness.
 
2014-04-13 01:54:19 AM  

Enigmamf: a very large fraction of the people who receive the vaccine are mandated to do so because they are in contact with highly contagious populations (school teachers) and/or highly at-risk populations (hospitals).


Yep - and this is one of my excuses for not getting a flu vaccine.  I'm not an anti-vax person, but I just don't feel the need to get a flu vaccine.  I don't work with children and I don't work in a hospital.  I expect my biggest risk comes from buying produce at a grocery store.  Who knows how many other people have picked up that apple before you and put it back?

I don't.  This is why I try to pick the fruit at the very bottom of the stack of fruit, but that doesn't mean that whoever picked that apple didn't take a shiat 5 minutes before they picked it and didn't wash their hands.

Hey, the good news is I probably won't get the flu from that.  I may get something else, but the flu is unlikely.
 
2014-04-13 02:13:34 AM  

Ambivalence: The day they make a flu vaccine that covers all strains, I will be first in line to get it.  But the biggest problem with flu vaccine is that there is no one flu.  There are literally thousands of different strains of flu.  Can you imagine if there were thousands of different strains of polio and every year you got a shot that worked against a dozen of them and you better hope to God no other strains come out that year or you'd be in a wheelchair the rest of your life?


Resistance to the most likely projected strains of the flu for that year is better than not having that resistance - it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.  I don't see why I wouldn't get vaccinated.
 
2014-04-13 02:20:29 AM  

Alicious: Lsherm: Ambivalence: Actually, kids did die (even of chicken pox).  That's kind of why they made the vaccines in the first place.

I was pre-chicken pox vaccine.  If kids were dying, it was very rare.  Chicken-pox parties in the 70's were extremely popular, especially if a patient-zero kid in the neighborhood got it during the summer, because that meant kids wouldn't miss school.  I went to mine in June,1969 with at least ten other kids.  The kid who got it first had a pool at his house, so it was all good as far as we were concerned.

No one died.  And honestly, we were at a far greater risk of drowning than dying of Chicken-pox.

I was pre-chicken pox vaccine too. One of my classmates got chicken pox in her throat and on the insides of her eyelids. She spent several weeks in the hospital for it.

One of my mother's college friend's husband got chicken pox when he was forty. It nearly killed him and he spent 3 months in the hospital from it.


It was probably AIDs and he probably got it from your mom.
 
2014-04-13 03:06:15 AM  

gfid: Enigmamf: a very large fraction of the people who receive the vaccine are mandated to do so because they are in contact with highly contagious populations (school teachers) and/or highly at-risk populations (hospitals).

Yep - and this is one of my excuses for not getting a flu vaccine.  I'm not an anti-vax person, but I just don't feel the need to get a flu vaccine.  I don't work with children and I don't work in a hospital.  I expect my biggest risk comes from buying produce at a grocery store.  Who knows how many other people have picked up that apple before you and put it back?

I don't.  This is why I try to pick the fruit at the very bottom of the stack of fruit, but that doesn't mean that whoever picked that apple didn't take a shiat 5 minutes before they picked it and didn't wash their hands.

Hey, the good news is I probably won't get the flu from that.  I may get something else, but the flu is unlikely.


 If you do get the flu though, you could very well infect someone in an at risk group.
 
2014-04-13 03:22:53 AM  

rynthetyn: gfid: Enigmamf: a very large fraction of the people who receive the vaccine are mandated to do so because they are in contact with highly contagious populations (school teachers) and/or highly at-risk populations (hospitals).

Yep - and this is one of my excuses for not getting a flu vaccine.  I'm not an anti-vax person, but I just don't feel the need to get a flu vaccine.  I don't work with children and I don't work in a hospital.  I expect my biggest risk comes from buying produce at a grocery store.  Who knows how many other people have picked up that apple before you and put it back?

I don't.  This is why I try to pick the fruit at the very bottom of the stack of fruit, but that doesn't mean that whoever picked that apple didn't take a shiat 5 minutes before they picked it and didn't wash their hands.

Hey, the good news is I probably won't get the flu from that.  I may get something else, but the flu is unlikely.

 If you do get the flu though, you could very well infect someone in an at risk group.


On the plus side, the last time I got the flu I quit smoking for over a week...until I found a pack that I had forgotten about and just wanted to see what it was like - like I had actually forgotten during that time.

I might actually be healthier if I got the flu more often.
 
2014-04-13 04:00:37 AM  

GoodDoctorB: Frederick: Ambivalence: Okay, so there are anti-vaxxers, and apparently there are vaxxer evangelicals and I don't particularly want to be in either group so I'm going to step away from this discussion.

Good night.

The only way to win is to not play.

[t3.gstatic.com image 274x184]


What do you think it is?  BTW Ambivalence and I were talking about the discussion.  What are you talking about?

Cpl.D: Ah, antivaxxers.  When you'll be DAMNED if you'll let something small like the lives of children get in the way of you enjoying some bullshiat trend!  "Oh, sorry about your little infant girl I infected who died in agony weeks later.  I didn't want to sully my karma and break up the harmonics of my magic soulwalker crystals by doing something reasonable a basement level intellect could fathom better than I could."


Do you actually know of this scenario occurring -and with measles?
 
2014-04-13 04:10:55 AM  

JoieD'Zen: Frederick: I had the measles (and chicken pox) as a kid.  It's not polio or aids.  Quit being pussies.  And take your damn bicycle helmet off, your riding on the farking bike path.

It wasn't uncommon for parents (50-60's) to expose their kids to another that was sick with mumps or chickenpox so they would get it and be immune.
No helmets and setbelts either.
None of us died or had all these bs 'disorders' either.


5/10.. No one's this dumb.
 
2014-04-13 04:11:37 AM  
 
2014-04-13 04:22:54 AM  

gfid: rynthetyn: gfid: Enigmamf: a very large fraction of the people who receive the vaccine are mandated to do so because they are in contact with highly contagious populations (school teachers) and/or highly at-risk populations (hospitals).

Yep - and this is one of my excuses for not getting a flu vaccine.  I'm not an anti-vax person, but I just don't feel the need to get a flu vaccine.  I don't work with children and I don't work in a hospital.  I expect my biggest risk comes from buying produce at a grocery store.  Who knows how many other people have picked up that apple before you and put it back?

I don't.  This is why I try to pick the fruit at the very bottom of the stack of fruit, but that doesn't mean that whoever picked that apple didn't take a shiat 5 minutes before they picked it and didn't wash their hands.

Hey, the good news is I probably won't get the flu from that.  I may get something else, but the flu is unlikely.

 If you do get the flu though, you could very well infect someone in an at risk group.

On the plus side, the last time I got the flu I quit smoking for over a week...until I found a pack that I had forgotten about and just wanted to see what it was like - like I had actually forgotten during that time.

I might actually be healthier if I got the flu more often.


Currently, if you're not in an at-risk group and are otherwise healthy, there's no reason to get a flu vaccine and use a dose that's needed by the at-risk population. "At-risk" being defined as very young, very old, immuno-compromised, and those working in such populations, such as teachers, healthcare workers and first responders. Healthy adults between the ages of 20-50 with no health problems and no contact with kids on a regular basis are probably okay not to get a flu shot.

That said, if you DO come down with the flu, do the rest of us a favor and stay the f*ck at home so you get better quicker and the rest of us don't get infected thank you very much.
 
2014-04-13 04:25:04 AM  

RoyBatty: 27B-6: Vaccines don't always work the first time you get them, and not all vaccines work well on everyoby. Immunity can also wear off after several years.
This is why it's important to have titers performed regularly.
A titer is a test where they take some of your blood to see if you actually have working antibodies against a disease.

Is that a test commonly covered by insurance?


Maybe but you can skip the titer and go for the adult booster.

One round as an infant and another as a toddler are not "up to date". I was required to have a booster before senior year of high school. For this young woman's age, that would be "up to date".

Because I was in my late 20s when I went back to college, I was again required to get an adult booster.

Your childhood vaccines aren't doing very much for you now, you need to get adult boosters, and with all these Vaccine Zombies running around, I'd say it's more important than ever now.
 
2014-04-13 04:27:51 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Currently, if you're not in an at-risk group and are otherwise healthy, there's no reason to get a flu vaccine and use a dose that's needed by the at-risk population. "At-risk" being defined as very young, very old, immuno-compromised, and those working in such populations, such as teachers, healthcare workers and first responders. Healthy adults between the ages of 20-50 with no health problems and no contact with kids on a regular basis are probably okay not to get a flu shot.


Herd immunity levels for the current flu season, taking into account a less-effective uptake vaccine for this year, are around 90% vaccine uptake.

Routine annual flu vaccinations of all persons over 6 months of age are recommended still by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.

Gyrfalcon: That said, if you DO come down with the flu, do the rest of us a favor and stay the f*ck at home so you get better quicker and the rest of us don't get infected thank you very much.


Unfortunately, by the time someone shows symptoms of the flu outright, they've been shedding infectious viral loads (giggity!) for around three to four days, and have exposed countless people around them to the flu virus.
 
2014-04-13 04:44:44 AM  
Now to really throw farkers panties in a bunch....let them know that vaccinations are homeopathic preparations.......
 
2014-04-13 05:06:41 AM  

Cpl.D: Ah, antivaxxers.  When you'll be DAMNED if you'll let something small like the lives of children get in the way of you enjoying some bullshiat trend!  "Oh, sorry about your little infant girl I infected who died in agony weeks later.  I didn't want to sully my karma and break up the harmonics of my magic soulwalker crystals by doing something reasonable a basement level intellect could fathom better than I could."


hardinparamedic: Frederick: Do you actually know of this scenario occurring -and with measles?

In the United States, measles has been declared endemically under control since 2000, with only 153 cases last year, and thankfully no deaths. 11% of the cases required hospitalization due to symptoms or secondary infection, the cost of which can run into the tens of thousands.


So you agree that statements like Cpl.D's are irrational, sensational, emotional -and not relevant?  This is one of the two points I try to make in the threads.  That people should try to stay rational and logical.  Let the facts do the talking when arguing about necessity of vaccinations.

hardinparamedic: Thanks to aggressive global efforts for eradication, measles deaths worldwide only numbered 158,000 people in 2011 - the latest available data from the WHO.


You provide an example of overwhelming success.  Despite whatever presence anti-vaxxers represent.  Clearly vaccinations are winning the day.  Is it really necessary to be so, frankly, hateful to the anti-vaxxers?  This attitude -I dont mean the message, but the delivery- is not conducive to winning any hearts and minds of those on the fence.  And people on the fence exist and are listening.
 
2014-04-13 06:21:00 AM  
The worst thing about skipping your kid's MMR vaccine (Measles, Mumps, Rubella), aside from getting or passing along what can be occasionally fatal diseases, is that your decision can maim and kill unborn babies.
Rubella (German Measles) is generally mild, but kills, blinds, mentally retards, and causes serious heart, liver & other organ issues in the baby. Oh, and deafness, miscarriage, and preterm labor.
So, if your kid isn't vaccinated, know that if you get pregnant again, that mild rash he brings home may kill or maim your new baby. Or the baby of anyone else he comes in contact with.
Rubella in utero isn't a 1-in-a-thousand thing, either.
Rubella is such a serious risk that pregnant women can't even get the vaccine - there is no safe exposure level.
 
2014-04-13 09:15:43 AM  

Frederick: Lsherm: And you'll probably need a booster shot because idiots won't vaccinate their kids, thus making the risk of exposure exponentially higher because of stupid.

Arent those the exact people you'd like to see eliminated from the gene pool?


Not when they take other people with them.
 
2014-04-13 09:33:05 AM  

Frederick: Lsherm: And you'll probably need a booster shot because idiots won't vaccinate their kids, thus making the risk of exposure exponentially higher because of stupid.

Arent those the exact people you'd like to see eliminated from the gene pool?


No, those are not the exact people I'd like to see eliminated from the gene pool. Kids whose parents are (at least in one respect) stupid can still have perfectly good genes, which I would like to keep in the pool.

You provide an example of overwhelming success.  Despite whatever presence anti-vaxxers represent.  Clearly vaccinations are winning the day.

If the goal is to eradicate a disease, you can't "win the day" like a sports team which scores 113 points against 2, or a political party which gets 97% of the votes. To wipe out a disease, you cannot ignore the last 0.5% of the carriers like we can ignore the flat earthers. On the contrary, you have to increase your efforts to track down the last individuals with the virus.

The case of polio illustrates this problem:
i6.photobucket.com (http://www.polioeradication.org/Portals/0/Document/Data&Monitoring/I MB _Reports/IMB_Report_April2011.pdf )

It's difficult enough without people who live in well-infrastructured areas but still refuse to vaccinate their children.
 
2014-04-13 09:57:36 AM  

hardinparamedic: Frederick: Do you actually know of this scenario occurring -and with measles?

In the United States, measles has been declared endemically under control since 2000, with only 153 cases last year, and thankfully no deaths. 11% of the cases required hospitalization due to symptoms or secondary infection, the cost of which can run into the tens of thousands.

Thanks to aggressive global efforts for eradication, measles deaths worldwide only numbered 158,000 people in 2011 - the latest available data from the WHO.


And, thanks to that data, we won't get fooled again.
 
2014-04-13 10:31:33 AM  
Can we work on eliminating STDs by banishing/killing/quarantining any of the infected next? Because they should be really easy to eliminate if we have an amoral scorched earth policy aimed at improving the human race.

/might seriously support tattoo/branding of certain crimes/diseases that need to go away
//too unethical?
 
2014-04-13 11:33:44 AM  

Ambivalence: StokeyBob: Ambivalence: Frederick: Good thing we got rid of all those cars killing children.

Cars are a lot safer for children than they used to be.  That whole frakas about requiring back up cameras is specificly intended to protect children.

It might not if the kids aborted so the parents can afford a car to get to their jobs.

Sometimes I wish I could encapsulate my look of extreme incredulity into an emoticon but I can't.

Go to bed, stokey, you're drunk.


Not so drunk I can't see there may be unexpected consequences of spending other peoples money for things like requiring a backward facing camera in every car.
 
2014-04-13 11:43:25 AM  

Gyrfalcon:
Currently, if you're not in an at-risk group and are otherwise healthy, there's no reason to get a flu vaccine and use a dose that's needed by the at-risk population. "At-risk" being defined as very young, very old, immuno-compromised, and those working in such populations, such as teachers, healthcare workers and first responders. Healthy adults between the ages of 20-50 with no health problems and no contact with kids on a regular basis are probably okay not to get a flu shot.

That said, if you DO come down with the flu, do the rest of us a favor and stay the f*ck at home so you get better quicker and the rest of us don't get infected thank you very much.


Do you know what fomites are?

When you are in the presymptomatic phase of influenza (and many other illnesses) infection, you shed the virus.

So when you touch the cart at the store or the PIN pad or the elevator button, congratulations you've left an infectious deposit for someone else, and you have no way of knowing if that next person to touch it is perfectly healthy or an end-stage cancer patient with an immune system that gave up months ago.

Will it kill you if/when you get the flu? Probably not; though H1N1, which circulated this year and was included in this year's trivalent vaccine, does seem to kill young adults and pregnant women at a much higher rate than other strains, so you never know. But, assuming you aren't a shut-in, you DO interact with people in vulnerable populations. Either directly or because lots of your bugs will hang around after you leave.

Getting your flu shot isn't just about you, it's about being a good member of your community and helping protect those who can't be adequately protected by the vaccine (who are the ones who most need protection from flu.)
 
2014-04-13 11:51:07 AM  
Hello, yes, I have lived this...  if you are GenXer you may have only gotten a single measles immunization, and by the way they weren't that great back then (source:  MA Dept. of Health).  I got the measles during a trip to France in 2011 despite being immunized.  They only started recommending a 2nd measles booster shot in 1990, so check your history and get a booster before you travel to Europe (or, now, various "hot zones" in the US...)

So much more to say but I've posted it on every measles thread for the past 3 years already.  I was immunized, I got the measles anyway, and I also traveled cross-country and you could have interacted with me on Denver Concourse B within a day or two of my being contagious.  I do feel cheated that I failed to start an outbreak, frankly.  But I wouldn't wish the measles on anyone - that experience was not fun.
 
2014-04-13 12:11:12 PM  

dustbunnyboo: The worst thing about skipping your kid's MMR vaccine (Measles, Mumps, Rubella), aside from getting or passing along what can be occasionally fatal diseases, is that your decision can maim and kill unborn babies.
Rubella (German Measles) is generally mild, but kills, blinds, mentally retards, and causes serious heart, liver & other organ issues in the baby. Oh, and deafness, miscarriage, and preterm labor.
So, if your kid isn't vaccinated, know that if you get pregnant again, that mild rash he brings home may kill or maim your new baby. Or the baby of anyone else he comes in contact with.
Rubella in utero isn't a 1-in-a-thousand thing, either.
Rubella is such a serious risk that pregnant women can't even get the vaccine - there is no safe exposure level.


I was in sixth grade when the rubella vaccine came out.  I still remember how they separated all the girls and asked who had started their period.  Guess they had to make sure nobody was pregnant.  Later on, they marched us all across the stage and shot us with the stupid air guns.  Fun times!  Still remember kids almost passing out, blood dripping down arms, etc.  Those damn guns were awful.
 
2014-04-13 12:35:42 PM  
This woman would be a blast at an anti-vaccination party.
 
2014-04-13 12:56:39 PM  

whatshisname: Ambivalence: The day they make a flu vaccine that covers all strains, I will be first in line to get it.

This statement sort of sums up the level of knowledge that most anti-vaxxers are working with.


Well, that, and this:

Ambivalence: That is just me, but it's not a position of ignorance.

 
2014-04-13 12:58:32 PM  

Ambivalence: Enigmamf: So you're being forced to play russian roulette, and someone offers to take out a few bullets. And you say no because there are still bullets in the gun?

Okay, so there are anti-vaxxers, and apparently there are vaxxer evangelicals and I don't particularly want to be in either group so I'm going to step away from this discussion.

Good night.


"There are only two sides and both sides are bad. Derp."
 
2014-04-13 01:54:12 PM  

jmcgeathy: All of you people talking about how your parents intentionally exposed you to chicken pox as a kid and it didn't kill you can thank them when you get shingles and wish you were dead. That chicken pox virus is in your body lying dormant and later in life will wake back up, latch onto nerve cells and will cause you more pain then you've ever experienced.

Enjoy.

Also, every case of measles is a chance for the virus to mutant inside the host then spread in a form that the vaccines the rest of us got can't defend against. So.. you're putting everyone at risk. Everyone. These diseases can and do kill people and who knows how deadly a mutated version will be. So.. thanks.


THIS! I'm so sick of this anti-vac bullshiat..excuse me, pro-disease bullshiat.
 
2014-04-13 03:41:29 PM  

Ambivalence: whatshisname: Ambivalence: The day they make a flu vaccine that covers all strains, I will be first in line to get it.

This statement sort of sums up the level of knowledge that most anti-vaxxers are working with.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer.  I have been vacinated and get regular boosters for almost every commonly vaccinated disease. I have 0 incidents of flu.  That is fairly remarkable considering how common flu is and considering how old I am.  I never even had flu as a child.  A yearly flu shot is not going to give me fewer than 0 incidents of flu, and it could possibly give me more than 0 incidents of flu.

If I ever get my first flu, then I'll start getting vacinated for it. Or when I enter a high risk catagory, then I'll get vaccinated.  Until then, I'm not going to fark with success. The flu vaccine, as it is now, is a craps shoot.  Maybe you get a good one that covers all the strains for the year, maybe you don't.


While yes, it is true that epidemiologist are trying to project which strains will be the most prevalent in a given year (based on global trends), your original post has a few flaws.

1. While there are many strains of the flu virus (not sure if it is dozens, hundreds, or thousands) they are not unrelated.  Immunity to one strain can give partial or total immunity to other strains, depending on the level of mutation.
2. While it is true that it is impossible to predict exactly how each flu season will play out, an epidemic does need a sustainable mass to exist.  So it is not as if some obscure strain from 15 years ago ls likely to pop up out of the blue.
3. The effects of vaccines are cumulative-so while yes, there are many strains out there, once you are vaccinated against one strain, you will stay resistant to that strain for a decent amount of time.

While I understand that you may feel like a flu vaccine is not necessary for you, your reasons are based on several misconceptions.  No, the flu vaccine is not a panacea, but it is a good thing with little downside.
 
2014-04-13 07:39:07 PM  

goatan: Frederick: I had the measles (and chicken pox) as a kid.  It's not polio or aids.  Quit being pussies.  And take your damn bicycle helmet off, your riding on the farking bike path.

What magical device do they insert into the bike paths that make it impossible to fall off or makes a collision between bikes impossible?


You are afraid of that?  You probably shouldnt ride a bike.  And definitely shouldnt legislate or create standards for those who are not afraid.
 
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