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(UPI)   Third-world nation with thriving drug manufacturing trade and long history of political corruption strongly objects to presence of UN observers during elections. Wait, did we say "third-world nation"? Sorry, we meant Tennessee   (upi.com) divider line 172
    More: Obvious, UN observers, corruption, third world  
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4434 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Apr 2014 at 10:38 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



172 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-12 08:50:04 AM  
So... the objection is to the use of the word "nation" instead of "state"?
 
2014-04-12 10:06:46 AM  
Too bad that our treaties and laws executed to carry out treaty obligations supersede state law.
 
2014-04-12 10:42:51 AM  
Wait, did we say "third-world nation"? Sorry, we meant Tennessee... but i repeat myself.
 
2014-04-12 10:43:34 AM  
Hey, I needed an activity.  I'll just pull up a chair, prep some popcorn...ok folks, go.  Make me proud.  Give it your best shots!
 
2014-04-12 10:43:50 AM  
Yes, because we really want anti-democratic "observers" from the UN learning rough-and-trouble democratic politics from the good ole boys in Tennessee.

Remember when PGP was technically considered munitions and was illegal to provide to anyone not a US citizen? Or the way we embargo certain weapons technologies and only sell the old stuff to those damn foreigners?

Same principle - we don't want these jokers learning our advanced 1st world techniques of manipulating elections.

Study it out. Dig deeper.
 
2014-04-12 10:44:16 AM  
We don't need the corrupt UN observing our elections

Who's idea was this anyways?
 
2014-04-12 10:45:31 AM  
Sorry, we meant Tennessee

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-04-12 10:46:25 AM  
"Any representative of the United Nations appearing without a treaty ratified by the United States Senate stating that the United Nations can monitor elections in this state, shall not monitor elections in this state."

They do realize that the United Nations is itself the result of a treaty ratified by the United States Senate, right?  According to the Constitution, treaties are the highest law of the land, making the UN Charter the highest law of the land.

/that said, of the US Senate has failed to ratify many basic international treaties
 
2014-04-12 10:46:41 AM  
FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.
 
2014-04-12 10:47:13 AM  
Stay derpy, Nashville.
 
2014-04-12 10:47:42 AM  
If everything is above-board, who the fark cares who is watching the elections?  Sounds as if TN has something to hide.
 
2014-04-12 10:48:52 AM  

Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.


Even the most exaggerated claims of voter fraud are only a miniscule percentage of folks that have no means of identification.
 
2014-04-12 10:48:58 AM  
Seriously?

America, are things really this weird? Is life really like Justified crossed with deranged Afghani drug running tribes in some regions?
 
2014-04-12 10:49:53 AM  
Except it's the OSCE, not the UN, monitoring elections in TN.  Same story, we signed the damn treaties.
 
2014-04-12 10:49:56 AM  
This is why the UN has no credibility. The crimean vote morally equivalent to tennessee.
 
2014-04-12 10:50:01 AM  
What business does the UN have involving itself in a state election?
 
2014-04-12 10:50:58 AM  

FunkOut: Seriously?

America, are things really this weird? Is life really like Justified crossed with deranged Afghani drug running tribes in some regions?


Some drug manufactures have something called an 'interest' in the outcomes of certian elections.
 
2014-04-12 10:51:24 AM  
We decided a few years ago that it's too expensive to create a paper trail for voters. What's the point? Everyone votes Republican.
 
2014-04-12 10:51:36 AM  
Certain.
 
2014-04-12 10:53:48 AM  

Yogimus: Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.

Even the most exaggerated claims of voter fraud are only a miniscule percentage of folks that have no means of identification.


The percentage of registered voters who have no valid ID are just as minuscule.
 
2014-04-12 10:55:15 AM  

ReapTheChaos: Yogimus: Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.

Even the most exaggerated claims of voter fraud are only a miniscule percentage of folks that have no means of identification.

The percentage of registered voters who have no valid ID are just as minuscule.


In MN you can vote with a utility bill addressed to you at an address within the district.
 
2014-04-12 10:57:15 AM  
People make things too complicated. The simple answer is throw the letter away, and if they send another one, forward it to Best Korea.

If the Tennessee legislature really wants to act, then they should just approve a single bill that says nothing but  UN-EABOD-FOAD-DIAF.
 
2014-04-12 10:57:30 AM  

SlothB77: This is why the UN has no credibility. The crimean vote morally equivalent to tennessee.


Except it was the OSCE monitoring elections in Tennessee.  And the UN General Assembly declared the referendum in Crimea invalid.  And the UN Security Council would have declared it invalid if not for Russia's veto.  And no one at the UN has made any claim about moral equivalency.  Nor did the UN send in observers to Crimea.  But yeah other than that you're right.
 
2014-04-12 10:59:46 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: "Any representative of the United Nations appearing without a treaty ratified by the United States Senate stating that the United Nations can monitor elections in this state, shall not monitor elections in this state."

They do realize that the United Nations is itself the result of a treaty ratified by the United States Senate, right?  According to the Constitution, treaties are the highest law of the land, making the UN Charter the highest law of the land.

/that said, of the US Senate has failed to ratify many basic international treaties


-5/10.

That's not your trolling score; that's your intelligent joke score.
 
2014-04-12 11:01:10 AM  
Does the UN know how big of a joke everyone thinks they are?
 
2014-04-12 11:01:16 AM  

SlothB77: This is why the UN has no credibility. The crimean vote morally equivalent to tennessee.


wat
 
2014-04-12 11:01:25 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: And the UN Security Council would have declared it invalid if not for Russia's veto.


oh wait, did you just present the best reason to throw the letter away? the first rule of debate is "don't fark up and make your opponent's point for him"


slowly now, the un is a farking joke
 
2014-04-12 11:01:50 AM  

MNguy: If everything is above-board, who the fark cares who is watching the elections?  Sounds as if TN has something to hide.


Nobody really cares.    But forces who are anti-voter ID are kind of like PETA.   They do dumb things just to attract attention.

And Like PETA sometimes you just need to ban them from showing up.
 
2014-04-12 11:04:47 AM  

ReapTheChaos: Yogimus: Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.

Even the most exaggerated claims of voter fraud are only a miniscule percentage of folks that have no means of identification.

The percentage of registered voters who have no valid ID are just as minuscule.


*sigh* Because, of course, in certain Republistan states you can't *be* a "registered voter" without valid ID.

You knew that, of course. You just hope to hook someone who didn't catch it.
 
2014-04-12 11:05:40 AM  
They should just use purple dye to identify people who have already voted.
 
2014-04-12 11:06:21 AM  

ReapTheChaos: Yogimus: Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.

Even the most exaggerated claims of voter fraud are only a miniscule percentage of folks that have no means of identification.

The percentage of registered voters who have no valid ID are just as minuscule.


(Citation please)
 
2014-04-12 11:07:07 AM  
Or stickers, red ones, that say something similar to 'I voted" semi-permanently attached to one's forehead.
 
2014-04-12 11:07:48 AM  

toadist: MNguy: If everything is above-board, who the fark cares who is watching the elections?  Sounds as if TN has something to hide.

Nobody really cares.    But forces who are anti-voter ID are kind of like PETA.   They do dumb things just to attract attention.

And Like PETA sometimes you just need to ban them from showing up.


And that, folks, is what far-right Republicans call "democracy!"

Let's all give him a big hand, shall we? No? Just one finger then. OK.
 
2014-04-12 11:09:00 AM  

brimed03: ReapTheChaos: Yogimus: Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.

Even the most exaggerated claims of voter fraud are only a miniscule percentage of folks that have no means of identification.

The percentage of registered voters who have no valid ID are just as minuscule.

*sigh* Because, of course, in certain Republistan states you can't *be* a "registered voter" without valid ID.

You knew that, of course. You just hope to hook someone who didn't catch it.


Again, why is that wrong? So long as the State is providing free, validated identification, why do you object to ensuring the identity of the people forming the government?
 
2014-04-12 11:13:36 AM  

Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.


You are trading a few false positives for a few hundred false negatives.

Republican officials have made the intent perfectly clear.

These measures are linked to curtailing access to polls in other ways (restrictions on registration, reduces hours, etc).
 
2014-04-12 11:13:43 AM  

MNguy: They should just use purple dye to identify people who have already voted.


that would only work the first year
 
2014-04-12 11:14:31 AM  

letrole: AliceBToklasLives: And the UN Security Council would have declared it invalid if not for Russia's veto.

oh wait, did you just present the best reason to throw the letter away? the first rule of debate is "don't fark up and make your opponent's point for him"


slowly now, the un is a farking joke


Yes, the Security Council veto a good reason to consider the UN a joke.  Totally agree.  I wonder what country has, over the last 40 years, used their veto power the most?

/if the UN is a joke, it is because its member countries are a joke.  The US does not get magically excluded.  Nor does this joke magically become no longer the highest law of the land.  Unless they want to pull out of the treaty (which can be done at any time).  Or if they want to violate the Constitution, which seems to be the prefered method.
//but, getting back to the point, it was the OSCE not the UN monitoring elections in Tennessee, so why are we (including TN) even talking about the UN?
///No I won't fark up my debating points by failing to realize slashies come in threes
 
2014-04-12 11:17:16 AM  
the state is basically teabaglandia at this point anyways, if you're a democrat in TN you're pretty hopeless
 
2014-04-12 11:17:30 AM  

brimed03: AliceBToklasLives: "Any representative of the United Nations appearing without a treaty ratified by the United States Senate stating that the United Nations can monitor elections in this state, shall not monitor elections in this state."

They do realize that the United Nations is itself the result of a treaty ratified by the United States Senate, right?  According to the Constitution, treaties are the highest law of the land, making the UN Charter the highest law of the land.

/that said, of the US Senate has failed to ratify many basic international treaties

-5/10.

That's not your trolling score; that's your intelligent joke score.


I'm dumb so explain it to be like I'm a five-year-old.  What's the joke?  That the UN is a result of a treaty?  That the Constitution considers treaties to be the highest law of the land?  That the US Senate has not ratified many treaties that are almost universally ratified (often putting us in company with places like Somalia and Best Korea)?

Seriously, I don't get the joke.
 
2014-04-12 11:18:21 AM  
Because if nothing is a violation of sovereignty, demonstration of clean elections is it
 
2014-04-12 11:21:58 AM  

RexTalionis: Too bad that our treaties and laws executed to carry out treaty obligations supersede state law.


But... but... but... Freedumb! State's Rights! The South Will Rise Again!
 
2014-04-12 11:24:05 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: Yes, the Security Council veto a good reason to consider the UN a joke.  Totally agree.  I wonder what country has, over the last 40 years, used their veto power the most?



Which proves what, exactly? That the actions of the UN are subject to political maneuvering apart from adherence to some sort of spurious international law? That even in your reply, you chose to allude to the fact that, somebody, wonder who that could be, has used the veto...


STOP MAKING MY POINTS FOR ME.


DEBATE DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT.
 
2014-04-12 11:25:13 AM  

Carousel Beast: brimed03: ReapTheChaos: Yogimus: Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.

Even the most exaggerated claims of voter fraud are only a miniscule percentage of folks that have no means of identification.

The percentage of registered voters who have no valid ID are just as minuscule.

*sigh* Because, of course, in certain Republistan states you can't *be* a "registered voter" without valid ID.

You knew that, of course. You just hope to hook someone who didn't catch it.

Again, why is that wrong? So long as the State is providing free, validated identification, why do you object to ensuring the identity of the people forming the government?


But they don't. That costs money, that costs labor to staff the DMV/whatever to issue it, and w/ the extra security measures added after 9/11, it costs more money than before. And if Republicans have proven anything, it's that they love spending tax money on programs to help poor minorities vote more often.
 
2014-04-12 11:25:38 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: "Any representative of the United Nations appearing without a treaty ratified by the United States Senate stating that the United Nations can monitor elections in this state, shall not monitor elections in this state."

They do realize that the United Nations is itself the result of a treaty ratified by the United States Senate, right?  According to the Constitution, treaties are the highest law of the land, making the UN Charter the highest law of the land.

/that said, of the US Senate has failed to ratify many basic international treaties


You do realize that the treaty has terms and conditions and doesnt simply giving the U.N. carte blanche to do what it wants, right?
 
2014-04-12 11:25:48 AM  

Carousel Beast: brimed03: ReapTheChaos: Yogimus: Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.

Even the most exaggerated claims of voter fraud are only a miniscule percentage of folks that have no means of identification.

The percentage of registered voters who have no valid ID are just as minuscule.

*sigh* Because, of course, in certain Republistan states you can't *be* a "registered voter" without valid ID.

You knew that, of course. You just hope to hook someone who didn't catch it.

Again, why is that wrong? So long as the State is providing free, validated identification, why do you object to ensuring the identity of the people forming the government?


That's a pretty big "so long as."

http://www.lawyerscommittee.org/page?id=0046

Your right to vote should not be dependent on transportation, the requirement for which one could argue makes anything "not free," the ability of the government to disseminate information or, worse, the prejudices of pollworkers.
 
2014-04-12 11:27:01 AM  

MNguy: If everything is above-board, who the fark cares who is watching the elections?  Sounds as if TN has something to hide.


Hey. Thats the Sam excuse used by the NSA and other law enforcement. Good job!
 
2014-04-12 11:30:49 AM  

brimed03: ReapTheChaos: Yogimus: Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.

Even the most exaggerated claims of voter fraud are only a miniscule percentage of folks that have no means of identification.

The percentage of registered voters who have no valid ID are just as minuscule.

*sigh* Because, of course, in certain Republistan states you can't *be* a "registered voter" without valid ID.

You knew that, of course. You just hope to hook someone who didn't catch it.


Are you aware of the 35k votes found voting in two different states, illegally?

Still shocks me how liberals claim there is no voter fraud when they take away every tool to detect voter fraud.

A shows up and votes as B
B shows up, cant vote, A is long gone and no way to identify them
No conviction based on no arrest.
Liberals "see no conviction, ergo no voter fraud!"
 
2014-04-12 11:34:16 AM  

letrole: AliceBToklasLives: Yes, the Security Council veto a good reason to consider the UN a joke.  Totally agree.  I wonder what country has, over the last 40 years, used their veto power the most?


Which proves what, exactly? That the actions of the UN are subject to political maneuvering apart from adherence to some sort of spurious international law? That even in your reply, you chose to allude to the fact that, somebody, wonder who that could be, has used the veto...


STOP MAKING MY POINTS FOR ME.


DEBATE DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT.


So where exactly do we disagree?  Or maybe I should say WHERE EXACTLY DO WE DISAGREE?

MyRandomName:  You do realize that the treaty has terms and conditions and doesnt simply giving the U.N. carte blanche to do what it wants, right?

Who is making such a claim?  How about the UN has the right to insist that either the US fulfill its treaty obligations or withdraw from the treaty?

/once again, the UN has not been monitoring elections in TN, so this discussion is entirely academic
 
2014-04-12 11:35:08 AM  

MyRandomName: MNguy: If everything is above-board, who the fark cares who is watching the elections?  Sounds as if TN has something to hide.

Hey. Thats the Sam excuse used by the NSA and other law enforcement. Good job!


The government shouldn't have the same (or more) rights than individuals to privacy, or any right to privacy, for that matter, and, unlike the cases you love to cite with the NSA, the UN had probable cause to investigate here.

Also: Citation on your 35K claim please.
 
2014-04-12 11:38:10 AM  

Carousel Beast: FTFA: 44 observers from Europe's Organization for Security and Cooperation were sent to the United States in 2012 to determine if photo identification requirements, including those in Tennessee, affected voter turnout.

Can any of Fark's lefties give me a valid reason why ensuring only people actually allowed to vote do vote is a bad thing? Seriously, voting is the cornerstone of our entire society; yet every time someone mentions we might want to look into vote fraud, you guys scream like suck pigs. WTF?

Doesn't mater is it's dead people voting in Chicago or Diebold supposedly tampering with machines, our voting should be something we strive to be perfect on.


Honestly, you sound more like you're asking for a political sparring partner, and I'm not interested. On the off chance you do have an open mind and want to know more, I'll answer. I'm more of an independent vote-for-the-person guy, but:

Not everybody in America lives in a city, has more than two cents of disposable income, or needs to drive. These folks don't have easy access to ID-providing facilities, money to buy IDs, or a need for an ID for any other purpose.

There are actually a lot of these folks and in a Venn diagram they tend to heavily overlap two groups: the poor, and minorities. These groups historically tend to vote Democrat.

Republicans have a long history of trying to disenfranchise these groups. Sometimes they've done it by beating people. Sometimes, by placing polling stations in places the poor and minorities find hard to reach. And frequently, by legislating various and unconstitutional or doubtfully constitutional impediments to voting.

These latter include property-ownership requirements, "literacy tests," and various state-ID requirements. Independent observers for decades have remarked on how, in practice, these tests and requirements are only required of non-white voters.

Meanwhile, repeated studies conducted by politically-politically neutral groups across various states have established that the actual incidents of voter fraud preventable by ID are low to none. And by "low," I mean a study involving millions of votes in Chicago found two instances. Two.

The push for ID voting under the guise of preventing fraud is a cynical smokescreen. It's about robbing the political opposition of votes by disenfranchising select groups of American citizens who are unlikely to vote for the party demanding ID requirements. Plain AND simple.

But yell a thing loudly and often enough, and there's a percentage of people you can fool all the time. Really, though, there are few Republican voters who don't understand what this is truly about. And it's disgusting that any American of any political stripe would go along with it, since it is the most undemocratic, un-American of political ploys. It's the kind of bullshiat-- peerage, rule of the landed gentry sort of crap-- this country was founded in opposition to.

As usual, the party waving the biggest American flag they can find is the one trying to hide the most un-American actions beneath it.
 
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