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(Vocativ)   Student: "Bullies are attacking me". Principal: "You're just making stuff up with no proof". Student: "I have video that I secretly recorded of them bullying me". Principal: "I'm calling the cops to have you arrested for wiretapping"   (vocativ.com) divider line 103
    More: Asinine, tenth grade, principals, students, developmental disabilities, old boys, legal settlements, Pennsylvania, classmates  
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12791 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Apr 2014 at 12:30 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-04-12 02:39:15 PM  
8 votes:

Rik01: Exactly, what are people thinking when they make up these rules and regulations for kids in school? Doesn't anyone check for conflicts? It's like telling a kid he can defend himself, but can't do anything to physically or mentally hurt his attacker. However, the school will take severe steps if and when his attacker beats him into a bloody pulp because then, the attacker is wrong, according to the law.


I find it depressing that I can use this meme in so many ways and that it's always in a way that's horrifically truthful.

i.imgur.com

You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying. If, tomorrow, I tell the press that a bookish kid will get beaten bloody or an introverted and ostracized teenager will consider suicide, nobody panics, because it's "all part of the plan." But when I say one little nerd will use technology to prove abuse, or that another will simply crumble under the pressure and come into school with a gun and the ultimate goal of suicide by cop because they can't handle it anymore, then everyone loses their minds.
2014-04-12 12:54:11 PM  
6 votes:
Time for a civil suit against the school for failing to protect the student.  The risk had been reported multiple times, the school took no action. Even after evidence had been provided, the school continued to take no action against the bullies.

They're going after the victim because they don't want recording to become a common response to inaction by school administrators.

The criminal portion of this could be challenged if the school had cameras.  If the school had cameras, the bullies would have no expectation of privacy and the state law requiring all parties to know of a recording should not apply.

Sad to say, civil suits are often the only way to force a bureaucracy to change a terrible behavior.
2014-04-12 12:57:07 PM  
5 votes:

KidKorporate: And we ask ourselves why school shootings happen.


He did all he could without violence and no one cared. I wouldn't begrudge him murdering the bullies; including the principal.
2014-04-12 12:52:24 PM  
5 votes:
Things like this make me sick. Principal should be fired and the kid's parents should take legal action.
2014-04-12 01:46:04 PM  
4 votes:
The reason the school is taking action, is because the student getting bullied is making it the school's problem, and they don't like that. Schools always ignore bullies when they can. The reason for this is that if you hae an asshole kid, you most likely have asshole parents. And nobody wants to go talk to them to have them scream at you about how little Butch Jr is the best kid in the world, and if you don't get off their lawn, they are gonna shoot you. They just don't want to deal with that.

And they know the kid who is getting bullied isn't gonna start shiat, so as long as little Bobby Tables stays nice and quiet, and takes his bullying like the little biatch he is, everything's gravy.

Fark the school administrators. Fark them sideways with a Christmas ham.
2014-04-12 01:03:02 PM  
4 votes:

MNguy: KidKorporate: And we ask ourselves why school shootings happen.

lax gun laws, dipshiat people who never learned how to use words


or perfectly articulate people who get picked on for endless years until one day they finally snap. its like taking the family dog and kicking it daily until it bites then putting it down because clearly its a mad dog.

At some point the victim makes victims, but we never seem to care til that point
2014-04-12 01:02:22 PM  
4 votes:

MNguy: Anyone who gets bullied usually deserves it.  Welcome to the real world.


So I shouldn't feel bad for pointing and laughing at you, right?
2014-04-12 12:43:59 PM  
4 votes:
And we ask ourselves why school shootings happen.
2014-04-11 12:07:29 PM  
4 votes:
Earth is a game. Sociopaths vs. Empaths. The sociopaths have been winning for a loooooong time.
2014-04-12 03:04:10 PM  
3 votes:

Bith Set Me Up: You're not helping when you use the Joker to state your case. The point behind those monologues is that they seem to make sense on the surface, but in the end, they're just the insane ramblings of a psychopath.


Except... that monologue isn't the insane ramblings of a psychopath. He talks a lot of bullshiat in the movie and most of what he says is outright lies, but that observation, that we look the other way when cruelty, abuse, neglect, and other horrors happen to people and groups to which it's "normal" for them to happen? That's pretty accurate. We justify certain levels of bullying, certain levels of poverty, certain levels of injustice in different situations because it's just the way things have always been. "Boys will be boys" is one of the most horrifying phrases in most context, because it's exactly that monologue. That beating the shiat out of a nerd, that forming exclusionary cliques and ostracizing people who are different, is all "normal."

We look the other way when we're used to it, and we get horrified when looking the other way leads to something horrible we're not used to.
2014-04-12 02:33:32 PM  
3 votes:
The bullies were never punished.

That's bullshiat! The kid needs a good lawyer who will not only sue the school, but will go after the bullies for assault.

It's really bad when a kid, with no defense against those picking on him or her, gets in trouble for finding a way to prove what's going on, instead of coming back with a gun and blowing their shiat away.

Plus the example of the kid being picked on in front of the teacher was outrageous. When I went to school, doing that would have prompted the teacher to snatch up the offending kids and throw them out of class, usually right to the principals office, where discipline would be meted out and parents called.

We had bullies in my time, but admittedly, not much ability to stop them. Reporting them could mean that later, after school, the pi$$ed off bully would be waiting for you with his friends to beat you to a pulp. However, our teachers would step in physically to protect a kid from being beaten up and male teachers had no problem with punching an aggressive, kid if he refused to stop hitting the guy he was picking on.

In more problematic incidents, a code went out over the loud speakers for usually the gym and shop teachers, to show up and physically restrain a kid. Those teachers usually did not put up with any BS from their hormonal, aggressive students.

Other than that, a bullied kid had only one option for relief: fight -- and more than likely get his butt beaten. The bullies were almost always superior fighters. Sometimes a bullied kid did get respect for even attempting to physically fight back, but the cost was usually a lot of pain and probably a broken nose.

In this day and age (The Age of the Lawyer) the legalities get all confused and muddled. Especially concerning the technology and in a Public School I would not expect the kids to have any expectation of privacy -- especially since most schools are equipped with cameras, students have cell phones, computers which can take and distribute video, usually a law officer on the grounds and every student is exposed to every other student.

I've read where students keeping other students from getting seriously injured when attacked, wound up getting punished for being heroes and following the often advertised anti-bulling messages. In extreme cases, the rescuer opened himself up to being sued by the bullies parents for striking him as he beat the snot out of a weaker child.

Something similar decades ago, pre-cellphone, involving a doctor, a dying man, an auto crash and the middle of the night resulted in the start of medical lawsuits which have gone so far out of control that we pay hideously inflated prices for care now. The doctor saved the guy with inadequate supplies -- and later was sued for his efforts.

Exactly, what are people thinking when they make up these rules and regulations for kids in school? Doesn't anyone check for conflicts? It's like telling a kid he can defend himself, but can't do anything to physically or mentally hurt his attacker. However, the school will take severe steps if and when his attacker beats him into a bloody pulp because then, the attacker is wrong, according to the law.
2014-04-12 02:33:32 PM  
3 votes:

LoneCraneFullMoon: MNguy: Anyone who gets bullied usually deserves it.  Welcome to the real world.

As someone that was a  pretty merciless and violent bully in elementary and middle school...no. None of my victims deserved it.  At the time I thought they were "asking for it", but not because they really were, but because I was a farked up little asshole with rage problems.


Rage problems beget rage problems. I was lucky enough to graduate just along the cusp of Columbine and before schools (especially in PA, and yes they indeed suck that farking hard) went truly batshiat insane with "safety" and turning their facilities into effectively minimum security prisons without the perks. If I was a few years younger, I might have well been expelled for the things I said and did in frustration to being bullies. The only thing that stopped it was when I snapped in gym class in my sophomore year, shoved back hard when I got shoved, and headbutted a guy hard enough to break his nose.

I was suspended for two days, but that was worth it because, like a farking prison, I wasn't messed with after that for being weak or strange. My friends and parents applauded me, and if I didn't have support from them I might not have been strong enough to get through that period.

MNguy is a clear troll, but there's a layer of sad truth under his piles of bullshiat. That mentality does exist. That mentality manifests itself in children and teenagers and when that mentality isn't squashed it goes on to fark up adults. The difference is it's not a "fact of nature" or some social Darwinist alpha male MRA trying-desperately-to-hide-from-the few-flickers-of-guilt-left-in-my-psyche-over-what-a-shiatlord-I've-beco me justification. It's a hideous and common cancer of social development, and it's one that must be fought in any way short of lethal force.

Unfortunately, schools today are so paranoid and administrators are so cowardly that they rush to ruin bright but awkward young minds for expressing their frustrations in any way while ignoring clear evidence of bullying under the decades-old justification that "boys will be boys." Instead of addressing the problem, the easy thing to do is address the symptom because the right peoples' feathers don't get ruffled if you just address the symptom.
2014-04-12 02:04:45 PM  
3 votes:

abhorrent1: States need to get rid of this two party consent crap. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to record your interaction with anyone for any reason if you want too.


What I don't get is that PA has this law, but still has traffic cameras to ticket people, when you haven't given your consent to be recorded.
2014-04-12 01:44:28 PM  
3 votes:
And this is why kids would rather shoot up the school, or go on a stabbing rampage.
2014-04-12 01:28:10 PM  
3 votes:

ReverendJynxed: Pennsylvania makes it a crime to intercept or record a telephone call or conversation unless all parties to the conversation consent. See http://government.westlaw.com...


From TFA: The original recording was suspiciously deleted by school authorities...

Then there is no evidence of the "crime"... and isn't destroying evidence a felony?
2014-04-12 01:25:00 PM  
3 votes:
fark the administrator, then fire him
fark the teacher, then fire him/her
fark the bullies ... repeatedly, then expel them
massive lawsuit to ensue

get a techno-geek over there stat to recover the data.  Why, oh why did the mother give over the original copy?

/bullied growing up, yes, why do you ask?
2014-04-12 01:21:41 PM  
3 votes:

BitwiseShift: The judgement-proof borough of McDonald PA has a population of about 2,500. Must be the mayor's son, or someone who controls the principal's paycheck doing the bullying. Given the compliance of the police, more likely the first.


It's not just little shiat-burgs in PA that are like that, pretty every small town is like that.  People with money, connections, influence get away with murder, sometimes literally.
2014-04-12 01:14:45 PM  
3 votes:

Rand's lacy underwear: I'll never understand why necessity doesn't prevail in cases like this.


Exactly- In U.S. criminal law, necessity may be either a possible justification or an exculpation for breaking the law. Defendants seeking to rely on this defense argue that they should not be held liable for their actions as a crime because their conduct was necessary to prevent some greater harm and when that conduct is not excused under some other more specific provision of law such as self defense.- wikipedia

The kid only recorded the others because it was NECESSARY to prove to the authorities that the bullying was happening, so they could prevent it.

Generally, the defendant must affirmatively show (i.e., introduce some evidence) that (a) the harm he sought to avoid outweighs the danger of the prohibited conduct he is charged with; (b) he had no reasonable alternative; (c) he ceased to engage in the prohibited conduct as soon as the danger passed; and (d) he did not himself create the danger he sought to avoid.


A- Being physically assaulted kinda outweighs someones 'privacy' in a classroom, where dozens of others see/hear what they are doing/saying.
B- He already tried to go to the principal
C- Assumed
D- Unless you wanna argue he deliberately baited them into picking on him, this doesn't apply.

So, he's in the clear.
2014-04-12 01:14:12 PM  
3 votes:

MNguy: You can't socially fit in?  That's your problem.


I dont know, if I chose to come shoot you in the face, I'd say it has very much become your problem.
2014-04-12 01:04:27 PM  
3 votes:

MNguy: Derp.  I get picked on so I'll show them.  Not by being a better or stronger or more intelligent person, but by shooting.


Who's really the dumber person... the one who gets himself killed for pointlessly pushing another person into a psychological breakdown, or the person who chooses to break out of their hell and end the torment by force?

Hmm..
2014-04-12 12:46:53 PM  
3 votes:
OMFG what is wrong with you stupid Americans?

All the kid wanted was to be treated like a person and just have the bullies given a warning, detention, or some other form of lax punishment, but instead was thrown to the cops under felony charges.

Is there something in the water that makes you act inhuman?
2014-04-12 12:46:30 PM  
3 votes:
According to Love, as the teacher is heard attempting to help her son with a math problem, a student says, "You should pull his pants down!" Another student replies, "No, man. Imagine how bad that (c**t) smells! No one wants to smell that (t**t)." As the recording continues, the teacher instructs the classroom that they may only talk if it pertains to math. Shortly thereafter, a loud noise is heard on the recording, which her son explained was a book being slammed down next to him after a student pretended to hit him in the head with it. When the teacher yells, the student exclaims, "What? I was just trying to scare him!" A group of boys are heard laughing.

The teacher need to be retrained as a starting point for discussion. S/he may not have the social presence to direct a classroom of students.
2014-04-12 12:40:02 PM  
3 votes:
No one will/should be surprised if this kid brings a gun to school.
2014-04-12 12:38:13 PM  
3 votes:
Bullies, in a sense, are authority figures, since they get satisfaction out of asserting their own (self-assumed) authority; so it's no surprise that a lot of them grow up to become school administrators and side with the next generation of bullies.
2014-04-12 12:07:11 PM  
3 votes:
Still, the civil suit is a lock.
2014-04-11 12:02:46 PM  
3 votes:
In a capitalist society, only the strong deserve survive. We define "strong" as those who successfully prey upon those weaker than them for personal gain. This is something we want to encourage so that we will have a fresh new crop of Wall Street bankers and CIA agents to pull from.

/ Do I need a sarcasm tag here? Feels like I need a sarcasm tag.
2014-04-13 06:20:17 AM  
2 votes:

MNguy: Alonjar: MNguy: You can't socially fit in?  That's your problem.

I dont know, if I chose to come shoot you in the face, I'd say it has very much become your problem.

Not really.  I'll die a happy death knowing that I was better than you.  My family may have a different view of this.


I recognize this. "I'd rather be dead and better than you than be alive and show you empathy." It's so contrary to common sense and humanity that most of us can't really understand it, but there are people who do live this way. They think traits like selfishness are good qualities to have. They spend their whole lives picking on those weaker than them because they have no honor in their hearts, it's easy. They can punch babies and stab puppies and tell each other is right because they are the ones doing the punching and stabbing.

Oh, life isn't going to be easy for MNguy once he's out of high school and has to learn to get along with others.
2014-04-12 08:48:20 PM  
2 votes:
So you have a reasonable expectation to privacy in a public school now?

So all those random locker, backpack, and car searches we had to deal with will stop?

If one of the main purposes of public education is conditioning children to obey authority, then perhaps they disliked the kid learning he can record his own evidence.

God forbid someone records a police action somewhere down the line.
2014-04-12 07:54:45 PM  
2 votes:

Dirty J1: I've never really been against bullies because they can help kids grow thick skin and stand up for themselves. But in this case, this kid comes up with a clever idea to take out his bullies and it backfires. I applaud the kid for doing what he did, and he shouldn't have gotten in trouble. He used his brain to foil his bullies, there's nothing wrong with that.


That's probably because you've never been victimized like that or, if you have, you've never needed to go to an ER afterwards after, for example, getting your teeth kicked down your throat.
2014-04-12 06:49:04 PM  
2 votes:
Why do the cops and prosecutors always seem to go along with the wishes of the school. Yes, the cops in this case could say the victim student was breaking the state law and charge him but why could they also charge the bullies for something like terroristic threats or simple assault and the school for failure to provide a safe environment?

Schools are getting too powerful and the cops just go along with it.
2014-04-12 06:17:59 PM  
2 votes:

pippi longstocking: OMFG what is wrong with you stupid Americans?

All the kid wanted was to be treated like a person and just have the bullies given a warning, detention, or some other form of lax punishment, but instead was thrown to the cops under felony charges.

Is there something in the water that makes you act inhuman?


Well, over here there's very much as "Fark you, I got mine!" Or "we're stronger, you're weaker, and might makes right!!"


It's also very much frowned upon for victims to say anything about their experiences, because as you saw upthread "Those who are bullied usually deserve it. Welcome to the real world."


Ergo, victims of childhood abuse, especially those who are at all learning disabled, are very much looked down upon, socially ostracized and shunned because they deserved it in the first place; seeking help is a badge of shame.


I'm not even going to get into the whole "if you were bullied or abused as a kid, you WILL be an abusive piece of crap!" philosophy....
2014-04-12 03:00:02 PM  
2 votes:

grimlock1972: That is totally farked up. The kid should have never been charged and the bullies punished.


Principal needs to be charged for failing to report the kids original complaint.
2014-04-12 02:42:57 PM  
2 votes:
That is totally farked up. The kid should have never been charged and the bullies punished.

I have to strongly suspect the bullies are the sons of rich and powerful fathers in the community or else stars on one of the schools sports teams.

Seriously in a situation like this in which a crime is being committed against the one making the recording the wiretapping law should not apply.

If the person entrapped the person then yes it should but that does not appear to be the case here.
2014-04-12 02:24:02 PM  
2 votes:
If the school provided the iPad with the camera, the microphone and the software to record activities at school, then they facilitated and implicitly consented for themselves and minor persons in their charge, e.g. students.

Student wins.
2014-04-12 02:18:16 PM  
2 votes:

MNguy: Anyone who gets bullied usually deserves it.  Welcome to the real world.


As someone that was a  pretty merciless and violent bully in elementary and middle school...no. None of my victims deserved it.  At the time I thought they were "asking for it", but not because they really were, but because I was a farked up little asshole with rage problems.
2014-04-12 01:45:10 PM  
2 votes:
I think Fark needs to lay the smack down on this idiot principal. Seriously that guy needs to DIAF

Feel free to send him a few choice words, or maybe other fun stuff if you're feeling adventurous...

His name is Scott and his email can be found right on the School's contact/webpage:  http://www.southfayette.org/sfsd-staff  (Just use the Assignment drop-down and select Principal).
2014-04-12 01:42:01 PM  
2 votes:

Alonjar: lol... nerd tries to assert his superiority via internet trolling.  What a classic.

I wish I could be alpha like you.


------

MNguy: When in the world is being a beta male justification


MNguy: nerds.jpg


MNguy: I've found that alpha males end up being the bosses and little pussies end up being the 'he stole my stapler' types.



Looks like I correctly stabbed at what I assumed would be the chink in your internet warrior armor.  I can see you just sitting there thinking about that dig over and over, enraged and threatened, while trying to pathetically deflect it back at other people, and failing miserably.  I take great satisfaction from this.

You got counter trolled by someone who played you like the predictable fiddle that you are.  Deal with it.
2014-04-12 01:28:12 PM  
2 votes:
Seems like there needs to be an exception as long as :

a) the recording party is present at the location of the recording.

b) the recording is designed to capture evidence of a criminal or harmful act.

c) the recording is never used as an implement for a criminal or harmful act.


So it's legal to record an assault or abuse, or to tape at a protest, as long as the recording is never used for blackmail.

The act of committing a criminal act should outweigh the expectation of privacy.

Also - Shouldn't the diminished capacity of a minor go to determining the motive and therefore the culpability of any 'wiretapping infringement' ?
2014-04-12 01:27:15 PM  
2 votes:
The authorities tell you not to use violence to defend yourself.  The authorities say to tell them when someone abuses you. But when you do that, they don't do anything about it.So use violence to defend yourself. If no one else will save you, you have to save yourself.Carry a knife. If you can carry a gun, do so.

The first imperative of any being is to survive.
2014-04-12 01:23:51 PM  
2 votes:

MNguy: rebelyell2006: MNguy: Derp.  I get picked on so I'll show them.  Not by being a better or stronger or more intelligent person, but by shooting.

Sure, kid tries to use fancy talking and he'll open himself up for more torment and beatings. And if the adults won't step in and act like adults, what is the kid to do? Lay back, accept the bullying and not dress so provocatively next time, or fight back and perhaps kill a bully to send a message?

What message is being sent?  Pussies like guns?


If you are out numbered its not cowardice to use weapons to defend yourself
2014-04-12 01:23:18 PM  
2 votes:

MNguy: rebelyell2006: MNguy: Derp.  I get picked on so I'll show them.  Not by being a better or stronger or more intelligent person, but by shooting.

Sure, kid tries to use fancy talking and he'll open himself up for more torment and beatings. And if the adults won't step in and act like adults, what is the kid to do? Lay back, accept the bullying and not dress so provocatively next time, or fight back and perhaps kill a bully to send a message?

What message is being sent?  Pussies like guns?


No, more like "grow up and act like an adult or you will be put down like the mad dog that you are". Bullies should be euthanized.
2014-04-12 01:20:17 PM  
2 votes:
MNguy:

Sorry that your life sucks, but you need to find a way to stick up for yourself.  It's called a personality.  The peoper way does not involve weapons.

Oh, I think we're in full agreement, you're just being an ITT.  He went the correct route, he told an adult, who not only didn't help, but got him in trouble.  He's got the right to whip some arse if he can.  I just went the full extreme and worst case scenario which is also an option.
2014-04-12 01:18:32 PM  
2 votes:

pippi longstocking: OMFG what is wrong with you stupid Americans?

All the kid wanted was to be treated like a person and just have the bullies given a warning, detention, or some other form of lax punishment, but instead was thrown to the cops under felony charges.

Is there something in the water that makes you act inhuman?


Its called conservatism
2014-04-12 01:17:58 PM  
2 votes:
With the majority of people with smartphones now in this country, there can no longer be a expectation of privacy unless it is expressly asked for. The law I imagine will change on this in the future.
2014-04-12 01:13:58 PM  
2 votes:
Just throwing something out there. This is Pennsylvania. Any coincidence that the school won the state football championship last year? Any odds on whether the bullies involved were on said football team?
2014-04-12 01:13:35 PM  
2 votes:
The judgement-proof borough of McDonald PA has a population of about 2,500. Must be the mayor's son, or someone who controls the principal's paycheck doing the bullying. Given the compliance of the police, more likely the first.
2014-04-12 01:08:50 PM  
2 votes:

Alonjar: MNguy: Derp.  I get picked on so I'll show them.  Not by being a better or stronger or more intelligent person, but by shooting.

Who's really the dumber person... the one who gets himself killed for pointlessly pushing another person into a psychological breakdown, or the person who chooses to break out of their hell and end the torment by force?

Hmm..


Its difficult to feel sorry for bullies that get shot like that.
2014-04-12 01:08:08 PM  
2 votes:

MNguy: Derp.  I get picked on so I'll show them.  Not by being a better or stronger or more intelligent person, but by shooting.


What if your tormentors didn't even leave you with those options?  What would you do then?
2014-04-12 01:04:52 PM  
2 votes:

Cornelius Dribble: Bullies, in a sense, are authority figures, since they get satisfaction out of asserting their own (self-assumed) authority; so it's no surprise that a lot of them grow up to become school administrators and side with the next generation of bullies.


School administrators, cops, lawyer/politicians.....pretty much anyone who starts out in life with the intention of acquiring power or control.
2014-04-12 12:53:41 PM  
2 votes:
Odd I never had any expectation of privacy whilst I was in a classroom - you talk people hear.
2014-04-12 12:52:54 PM  
2 votes:
ReverendJynxed
Seems to be if you are bullying in public you should not be expecting the right to privacy or protection from alleged "wiretapping."

How is a classroom in a public school not considered a public conversation?
2014-04-12 12:47:27 PM  
2 votes:

dramboxf: ReverendJynxed: Uh, as long as one of the parties involved (the victim in this case) has knowledge of the taping, it's ok ain't it?

Some states are one-party consent, some are two.

/RsTFA...

PA is a two-party consent state.

Still, the school official is a dick.



Pennsylvania makes it a crime to intercept or record a telephone call or conversation  unless all parties to the conversation consent. See  http://government.westlaw.com/linkedslice/default.asp?SP=pac-1000" title="http://government.westlaw.com/linkedslice/default.asp?SP=pac-1 000" style="color: rgb(142, 24, 28); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; background-color: rgb(244, 242, 234);">18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5703 (link is to the entire code, choose Title 18, Part II, Article F, Chapter 57, Subchapter B, and then the specific provision).

The law does not cover oral communications when the speakers do not have an "expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation." See  http://government.westlaw.com/linkedslice/default.asp?SP=pac-1000" title="http://government.westlaw.com/linkedslice/default.asp?SP=pac-1 000" style="color: rgb(142, 24, 28); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; background-color: rgb(244, 242, 234);">18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5702 (link is to the entire code, choose Title 18, Part II, Article F, Chapter 57, Subchapter A, and then the specific provision). Therefore, you may be able to record in-person conversations occurring in a public place without consent. However, you should always get the consent of all parties before recording any conversation that common sense tells you is private.

Seems to be if you are bullying in public you should not be expecting the right to privacy or protection from alleged "wiretapping."
2014-04-12 12:47:25 PM  
2 votes:
States need to get rid of this two party consent crap. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to record your interaction with anyone for any reason if you want too.
2014-04-12 12:45:04 PM  
2 votes:

LeroyBourne: No one will/should be surprised if this kid brings a gun to school.


Was going to say, while I don't condone, I empathize with the person.    Being forced to go to school, be tormented every day mentally, emotionally, and physically, with no way to solve the issue?  That usually results in three things.

1. Suicide by the victim.
2. Forced to move away to another school system (if possible)
3. Victim takes the law into their own hands.

Maybe with publicity, the victim will get help.
2014-04-12 12:00:28 PM  
2 votes:

dramboxf: ReverendJynxed: Uh, as long as one of the parties involved (the victim in this case) has knowledge of the taping, it's ok ain't it?

Some states are one-party consent, some are two.

/RsTFA...

PA is a two-party consent state.

Still, the school official is a dick.


Default setting of school officials.
2014-04-13 04:16:17 AM  
1 votes:
This is the Internet, people! Instead of arguing amongst ourselves, why not direct your anger towards somewhere it can do some good? Here is a link with email addresses for the staff at this odious and abusive school, and it even includes the contact details of the school principal! The web address with the staff list is at  http://www.southfayette.org/high-staff and the principal's name and contact details are on page 2 of the list.

It is not the first time that social pressure from the Internet has forced a change in policy, and it won't be the last...
2014-04-13 12:01:08 AM  
1 votes:

Rand's lacy underwear: I'll never understand why necessity doesn't prevail in cases like this.


Because RULES! You have to have RULES! If there aren't RULES, we'd have rampant anarchy and murder, death, mayhem and kids taping one another willy-nilly and then where would we be?
2014-04-12 08:42:01 PM  
1 votes:

abhorrent1: States need to get rid of this two party consent crap. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to record your interaction with anyone for any reason if you want too.


/You cant. Some states (like Illinois where i live) have wiretapping laws.  That means if you don't have consent from all parties being taped, its "wiretapping".  Unless you are the government, or police.  They get a free ticket to do that.  Then, its not called "wiretapping" its called "evidence."

//Nice huh?
2014-04-12 08:36:10 PM  
1 votes:
But instead of punishing the teenage tyrants caught on tape, administrators decided to call the police, who threatened the 15-year-old boy with felony wiretapping, but later reduced the charge to disorderly conduct. He was found guilty on March 19

/The kid obviously has not learned that 1. the people in charge don't give a shiat if you get bullied, so ..fight back or take it, they don't care either way. Also, if you report it, that means actual WORK for them to do, and they hate that more than anything. That's why they went into education. Tsks...boy will learn quickly.
2014-04-12 08:33:45 PM  
1 votes:

pippi longstocking: OMFG what is wrong with you stupid Americans?

All the kid wanted was to be treated like a person and just have the bullies given a warning, detention, or some other form of lax punishment, but instead was thrown to the cops under felony charges.

Is there something in the water that makes you act inhuman?


Isnt it clear that the school systems are one of the biggest problems with Americans?
2014-04-12 07:53:04 PM  
1 votes:
If you Google "South Fayette High School principal"..the first link contains his bio and his email address.. To those who disagree with his actions...enjoy.   Honestly, this is the type of thing that I wish Anonymous would take up.  No need to fire him, just drive him out with a good public shaming.
2014-04-12 07:47:45 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: rebelyell2006: MNguy: rebelyell2006: MNguy: Derp.  I get picked on so I'll show them.  Not by being a better or stronger or more intelligent person, but by shooting.

Sure, kid tries to use fancy talking and he'll open himself up for more torment and beatings. And if the adults won't step in and act like adults, what is the kid to do? Lay back, accept the bullying and not dress so provocatively next time, or fight back and perhaps kill a bully to send a message?

What message is being sent?  Pussies like guns?

No, more like "grow up and act like an adult or you will be put down like the mad dog that you are". Bullies should be euthanized.

I'm getting old, but I've found that alpha males end up being the bosses and little pussies end up being the 'he stole my stapler' types.


Says the guy who refers to being a manager as an elevated state of society. Let us know when your shift is done and maybe we can arrange to teach you the life lessons you are so sorely lacking.
2014-04-12 07:10:03 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: Anyone who gets bullied usually deserves it.  Welcome to the real world.


Hey, see this? -->img.fark.net

When you get one of these next to your name, we might actually consider your opinion relevant.   Until then:

img.fark.net
2014-04-12 06:26:03 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: Derp.  I get picked on so I'll show them.  Not by being a better or stronger or more intelligent person, but by shooting.


A gun is a tool,  If somebody is stronger then you and you can't stop them physically then there is nothing wrong with using tools to even the odds.
2014-04-12 06:23:12 PM  
1 votes:

0z79: pippi longstocking: OMFG what is wrong with you stupid Americans?

All the kid wanted was to be treated like a person and just have the bullies given a warning, detention, or some other form of lax punishment, but instead was thrown to the cops under felony charges.

Is there something in the water that makes you act inhuman?

Well, over here there's very much as "Fark you, I got mine!" Or "we're stronger, you're weaker, and might makes right!!"


It's also very much frowned upon for victims to say anything about their experiences, because as you saw upthread "Those who are bullied usually deserve it. Welcome to the real world."


Ergo, victims of childhood abuse, especially those who are at all learning disabled, are very much looked down upon, socially ostracized and shunned because they deserved it in the first place; seeking help is a badge of shame.


I'm not even going to get into the whole "if you were bullied or abused as a kid, you WILL be an abusive piece of crap!" philosophy....


This. We live in a society where the victims of abuse are treated worse than the abusers themselves.

It's way too easy to say "Suffering builds character" when you aren't suffering.
2014-04-12 05:34:27 PM  
1 votes:
I think the mother should send junior back to school with his Ipad, and this time post the video on the internet. The outrage at seeing the bullying will back off the local prosecutor from pressing charges, and the principal will get such a shiat storm of email that he will be forced to do something about the situation. Even if it is wrong.
2014-04-12 05:26:29 PM  
1 votes:
Everybody knows about the wars between rich vs. poor, whites vs. non-whites, Christian Fundies vs. everyone else, but there's another war in play: old vs. young.

Think about it. What are the two things the US government spends the most money on? Medicare, to help older Americans live longer, and the military, killing off younger Americans in senseless wars.

This blind eye to excessive bullying just hammers in the message that the well-being of our youth doesn't matter anymore.

Older Americans are getting all the benefits, and yet they're biatching the loudest about getting the short end of the stick, and call younger Americans that try to bring their own grievances to light selfish or entitled.

What kind of world are we leaving for our children? We aren't.
2014-04-12 04:38:29 PM  
1 votes:

Heron: RandomRandom: Time for a civil suit against the school for failing to protect the student.  The risk had been reported multiple times, the school took no action. Even after evidence had been provided, the school continued to take no action against the bullies.

They're going after the victim because they don't want recording to become a common response to inaction by school administrators.

The criminal portion of this could be challenged if the school had cameras.  If the school had cameras, the bullies would have no expectation of privacy and the state law requiring all parties to know of a recording should not apply.

Sad to say, civil suits are often the only way to force a bureaucracy to change a terrible behavior.

The charge is open to challenge even without cameras; as has been said up-thread, sinc ehte "conversation" took place in a schoolroom, which is by nature a public location, it very likely doesn't fall under the wiretapping statute. I'd also add that bullying is an essentially public act meant not only to humiliate but to draw attention to that humiliation so as to make it worse, and that by slamming the book down on the desk next to the kid, one of the bullies committed an action that could not but be meant to drawn attention, meaning that the charge is even more questionable on its face. IMHO, the principle in question needs to be fired as they've mucked up this situation in about every way they had to muck it up in.


The wiretapping charge was bullshiat on many levels. It never would have stood. Which is why the charge was "reduced" to disorderly conduct.
gad
2014-04-12 04:11:39 PM  
1 votes:

pippi longstocking: OMFG what is wrong with you stupid Americans?

All the kid wanted was to be treated like a person and just have the bullies given a warning, detention, or some other form of lax punishment, but instead was thrown to the cops under felony charges.

Is there something in the water that makes you act inhuman?


Yup, Americans are seriously wrong in the head. Which European country with a long history of genocide and war are you from?
2014-04-12 03:33:39 PM  
1 votes:
Wow some of the comments on that site are true derp - they seem to think something called "progressive liberalism" is the cause of the problem.

As if advancing the cause of liberty is likely to be the root cause of something as bigotted and blind as the behaviour of everyone from the bully to the principal, to the DA and judge - I would have gone with ignorance and parochialism.
2014-04-12 03:30:36 PM  
1 votes:
So, see if this is straight. A kid is bullied, or allegedly bullied, and the school and the cops wanna ramp up the rhetoric he was wrong for doing so? I think it instills a lesson to the kids if someone mistreats them, they're on their own. Way to go, adults. Now when you get the next kid with pipebombs, or goes all "Lanza" on the bullies, and possibly the innocent, where will adults pin the blame? Many do not want the issue resolved, they just want everyone to stay quiet.
2014-04-12 03:24:02 PM  
1 votes:
Roll with it or don't.  But if you're angry enough to start shooting, you're a farking coward.
2014-04-12 02:58:01 PM  
1 votes:

RandomRandom: Time for a civil suit against the school for failing to protect the student.  The risk had been reported multiple times, the school took no action. Even after evidence had been provided, the school continued to take no action against the bullies.

They're going after the victim because they don't want recording to become a common response to inaction by school administrators.

The criminal portion of this could be challenged if the school had cameras.  If the school had cameras, the bullies would have no expectation of privacy and the state law requiring all parties to know of a recording should not apply.

Sad to say, civil suits are often the only way to force a bureaucracy to change a terrible behavior.


The charge is open to challenge even without cameras; as has been said up-thread, sinc ehte "conversation" took place in a schoolroom, which is by nature a public location, it very likely doesn't fall under the wiretapping statute. I'd also add that bullying is an essentially public act meant not only to humiliate but to draw attention to that humiliation so as to make it worse, and that by slamming the book down on the desk next to the kid, one of the bullies committed an action that could not but be meant to drawn attention, meaning that the charge is even more questionable on its face. IMHO, the principle in question needs to be fired as they've mucked up this situation in about every way they had to muck it up in.
2014-04-12 02:55:28 PM  
1 votes:

Alonjar: MNguy: You can't socially fit in?  That's your problem.

I dont know, if I chose to come shoot you in the face, I'd say it has very much become your problem.




Hit the ignore button on this jerk.
2014-04-12 02:45:44 PM  
1 votes:
I've seen cases in the news where the DA declined to prosecute a "wiretap" offense when the accused was obviously recording audio/video for defense purposes rather than wiretapping. There's no excuse for a DA to choose otherwise.
2014-04-12 02:30:26 PM  
1 votes:

Alleyoop: ReverendJynxed: Pennsylvania makes it a crime to intercept or record a telephone call or conversation unless all parties to the conversation consent. See http://government.westlaw.com...

From TFA: The original recording was suspiciously deleted by school authorities...

Then there is no evidence of the "crime"... and isn't destroying evidence a felony?



If I was the judge I'd have dismissed the case for lack of evidence and had charges filed against the school authorities.      Messing with evidence is criminal behaviour.
2014-04-12 02:23:17 PM  
1 votes:

payattention: illegal.tender - In a capitalist society, only the strong deserve to survive. We define "strong" as those who successfully prey upon those weaker than them for personal gain. This is something we want to encourage so that we will have a fresh new crop of Wall Street bankers and CIA agents to pull from.
/ Do I need a sarcasm tag here? Feels like I need a sarcasm tag.

No, you need a 'PREACH ON BROTHER!!' tag

//what surprises me the most is how most people complain about 'crazy conspiracy theories' then 40 years later we find out that the supposed 'theory' is fact and not crazy at all. How many times does this have to happen before people wake up to the subversion and subterfuge being practiced by our government and its agencies? You don't think that the above is their desired outcome and they are doing NOTHING to help it along?
//However, ignorance is bliss....


We do it because most of them ARE crazy and are NOT proven true years later.  Flouridation was not a commie plot, the Masons are not a secret satanic order, Dungeons and Dragons was not a secret Satanic plot.

The conspiracies that are true are the ones that involve few people and are nearly impossible to prove or disprove because they take advantage of what already happens.  The Iron Mountain conspiracy said that shadowy figures brought America into a state of perpetual war to control the plebs.  The truth is much simpler, a state of perpetual war is perpetually profitable and there's always SOMEONE willing to start a fight for bad reasons just because he wants to play with army men.
2014-04-12 02:19:36 PM  
1 votes:

Bith Set Me Up: KidKorporate: And we ask ourselves why school shootings happen.

Weren't the bastards behind Columbine the bullies themselves?


If you believe the retconning that the bullies have been saying........
2014-04-12 02:18:50 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: rebelyell2006: MNguy: rebelyell2006: MNguy: Derp.  I get picked on so I'll show them.  Not by being a better or stronger or more intelligent person, but by shooting.

Sure, kid tries to use fancy talking and he'll open himself up for more torment and beatings. And if the adults won't step in and act like adults, what is the kid to do? Lay back, accept the bullying and not dress so provocatively next time, or fight back and perhaps kill a bully to send a message?

What message is being sent?  Pussies like guns?

No, more like "grow up and act like an adult or you will be put down like the mad dog that you are". Bullies should be euthanized.

I'm getting old, but I've found that alpha males end up being the bosses and little pussies end up being the 'he stole my stapler' types.


So when you are old, it will be totally cool that some young alpha male steals all your money because you are helpless to defend it? Cool.
2014-04-12 01:53:31 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: My wife is Asian.  Why do you have to get all racist about this?  Sounds like a guy who brings a knife to a fist fight


You sound like a guy who prefers his victims to be defenseless. Did you have a bad experience once while assaulting somebody?

But overall, a pretty lame deflection.
2014-04-12 01:49:30 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: My wife is Asian.  Why do you have to get all racist about this?  Sounds like a guy who brings a knife to a fist fight


gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net
2014-04-12 01:48:49 PM  
1 votes:

thornhill: The most shocking thing is that this went to trial. The DA really couldn't have worked out a probation plea? He needed to send a tough message to disabled teenagers about what they're allowed to record?


If people record the truth, they will find out how bad it really is.
2014-04-12 01:43:37 PM  
1 votes:
The most shocking thing is that this went to trial. The DA really couldn't have worked out a probation plea? He needed to send a tough message to disabled teenagers about what they're allowed to record?
2014-04-12 01:43:26 PM  
1 votes:

Enemabag Jones: vd61
All the daytime television. That and shiatty parents that don't teach empathy.

Bullies tend to raise bullies. I had no idea.


Pretty much this.  Every bully I knew as a kid was trained to be a bully by his parents or some other family member.
2014-04-12 01:40:42 PM  
1 votes:
MNguy,
I'm getting old, but I've found that alpha males end up being the bosses and little pussies end up being the 'he stole my stapler' types.


At the risk of simplifying a nuanced point, not all alphas are bullies and not all pussies are whiny biatches.  Alphas don't necessarily need to bully, it is the people competing for the attention of the alpha that tend to bully.  They are using social tools to climb the latter.

And just because someone is chosen as a mark by a bully, they may or may not be the whining pussies you frame them as.

To rephrase, dicks may fark a pussy, but they may fark an asshole as well.  And a pussy covered in shiat might as well be another asshole.
2014-04-12 01:35:26 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: soseussme: MNguy: LeroyBourne: b-maz: LeroyBourne: No one will/should be surprised if this kid brings a gun to school.

Was going to say, while I don't condone

Oh, I agree.  With all the school shootings I thought I was in the area of bad taste, but I went with it anyway.

Sorry you are a weak person with a weak personality and average intelligence.  Guns are the equalizer that make you socially superior and help you feel better.  School shooters are the absolute bottom of the barrel.

No, there's pedophiles, animal abusers, corrupt cops and politicians, and others who harm not out of cracking from psychological pressure because they don't have enough maturity or support to cope with abuse heaped on them and instead hurt others for their own personal gain and pleasure, of their own free will with no duress.

Oh, and trolls, because they are the same mentality, just on a tiny scale to match the size of their minds and penises.

I agree with you on all points, except the trolls.


So you admit that people become bullies because they were bullied at one point and couldn't find a way to deal with it? So much for your "alpha male" bully idea.
2014-04-12 01:32:14 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: LeroyBourne: LeroyBourne: MNguy:

Sorry that your life sucks, but you need to find a way to stick up for yourself.  It's called a personality.  The peoper way does not involve weapons.

Oh, I think we're in full agreement, you're just being an ITT.  He went the correct route, he told an adult, who not only didn't help, but got him in trouble.  He's got the right to whip some arse if he can.  I just went the full extreme and worst case scenario which is also an option.

ITG*

When in the world is being a beta male justification for murder?   Is this a Walking Dead thread?


You're all over the place.  I'll just answer your question.  No, no this isn't a WD thread.
2014-04-12 01:29:59 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: rebelyell2006: MNguy: rebelyell2006: MNguy: Derp.  I get picked on so I'll show them.  Not by being a better or stronger or more intelligent person, but by shooting.

Sure, kid tries to use fancy talking and he'll open himself up for more torment and beatings. And if the adults won't step in and act like adults, what is the kid to do? Lay back, accept the bullying and not dress so provocatively next time, or fight back and perhaps kill a bully to send a message?

What message is being sent?  Pussies like guns?

No, more like "grow up and act like an adult or you will be put down like the mad dog that you are". Bullies should be euthanized.

I'm getting old, but I've found that alpha males end up being the bosses and little pussies end up being the 'he stole my stapler' types.


Perhaps, but at least the "pussies" keep their jobs (or get nice lawsuit settlements), while the disruptive thieves and non-functioning sociopaths get fired. So I've got job security, which is nice.

And nice "alpha male" schtick. Is /b/ down right now?
2014-04-12 01:27:10 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: LeroyBourne: b-maz: LeroyBourne: No one will/should be surprised if this kid brings a gun to school.

Was going to say, while I don't condone

Oh, I agree.  With all the school shootings I thought I was in the area of bad taste, but I went with it anyway.

Sorry you are a weak person with a weak personality and average intelligence.  Guns are the equalizer that make you socially superior and help you feel better.  School shooters are the absolute bottom of the barrel.


No, there's pedophiles, animal abusers, corrupt cops and politicians, and others who harm not out of cracking from psychological pressure because they don't have enough maturity or support to cope with abuse heaped on them and instead hurt others for their own personal gain and pleasure, of their own free will with no duress.

Oh, and trolls, because they are the same mentality, just on a tiny scale to match the size of their minds and penises.
2014-04-12 01:21:22 PM  
1 votes:

MNguy: LeroyBourne: MNguy: LeroyBourne: MNguy:

Sorry you are a weak person with a weak personality and average intelligence.  Guns are the equalizer that make you socially superior and help you feel better.  School shooters are the absolute bottom of the barrel.

I'm not sure how you came to that.  I've never owned a gun, nor have ever thought about purchasing one.  I just said if this kid goes off the deep end and does something foolish, no one should be surprised.

Look, in this particular case, someone should have stepped in.  However, the real world operates on a hierarchy that kids have to learn how to work.  If you fail at figuring out the pecking order, then prepare for a life of anger issues.

That's what you would say to this kid?  'sorry kid, it's been well est that you are to be picked on for the rest of your life, deal with it.'
Please tells us you don't have children.

Sorry that your life sucks, but you need to find a way to stick up for yourself.  It's called a personality.  The peoper way does not involve weapons.


is this the first anti-violence Internet Tough Guy? Who fights with words and "personality"?
2014-04-12 01:20:54 PM  
1 votes:

LeroyBourne: MNguy:

Sorry that your life sucks, but you need to find a way to stick up for yourself.  It's called a personality.  The peoper way does not involve weapons.

Oh, I think we're in full agreement, you're just being an ITT.  He went the correct route, he told an adult, who not only didn't help, but got him in trouble.  He's got the right to whip some arse if he can.  I just went the full extreme and worst case scenario which is also an option.


ITG*
2014-04-12 01:10:51 PM  
1 votes:

LeroyBourne: No one will/should be surprised if this kid brings a gun to school.


Bullcrap, squared and cubed, when this poor kid goes nuts and DOES kill, the Principal (bless his heart) will say "oh, we had NO idea that there was ANYTHING WRONG!"

The miracle is that there is not a shooting a day in HS these days.
2014-04-12 01:07:45 PM  
1 votes:
illegal.tender - In a capitalist society, only the strong deserve to survive. We define "strong" as those who successfully prey upon those weaker than them for personal gain. This is something we want to encourage so that we will have a fresh new crop of Wall Street bankers and CIA agents to pull from.
/ Do I need a sarcasm tag here? Feels like I need a sarcasm tag.


No, you need a 'PREACH ON BROTHER!!' tag

//what surprises me the most is how most people complain about 'crazy conspiracy theories' then 40 years later we find out that the supposed 'theory' is fact and not crazy at all. How many times does this have to happen before people wake up to the subversion and subterfuge being practiced by our government and its agencies? You don't think that the above is their desired outcome and they are doing NOTHING to help it along?
//However, ignorance is bliss....
2014-04-12 12:56:15 PM  
1 votes:

ReverendJynxed: dramboxf: ReverendJynxed: Uh, as long as one of the parties involved (the victim in this case) has knowledge of the taping, it's ok ain't it?

Some states are one-party consent, some are two.

/RsTFA...

PA is a two-party consent state.

Still, the school official is a dick.


Pennsylvania makes it a crime to intercept or record a telephone call or conversation  unless all parties to the conversation consent. See  http://government.westlaw.com/linkedslice/default.asp?SP=pac-1000" title="http://government.westlaw.com/linkedslice/default.asp?SP=pac-1 000" style="color: rgb(142, 24, 28); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; background-color: rgb(244, 242, 234);">18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5703 (link is to the entire code, choose Title 18, Part II, Article F, Chapter 57, Subchapter B, and then the specific provision).

The law does not cover oral communications when the speakers do not have an "expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation." See  http://government.westlaw.com/linkedslice/default.asp?SP=pac-1000" title="http://government.westlaw.com/linkedslice/default.asp?SP=pac-1 000" style="color: rgb(142, 24, 28); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; background-color: rgb(244, 242, 234);">18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5702 (link is to the entire code, choose Title 18, Part II, Article F, Chapter 57, Subchapter A, and then the specific provision). Therefore, you may be able to record in-person conversations occurring in a public place without consent. However, you should always get the consent of all parties before recording any conversation that common sense tells you is private.

Seems to be if you are bullying in public you should not be expecting the right to privacy or protection from alleged "wiretapping."


Better hope they don't have security cameras in any place one could consider private.
2014-04-12 12:55:15 PM  
1 votes:

abhorrent1: States need to get rid of this two party consent crap. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to record your interaction with anyone for any reason if you want too.


Well, IIRC many of the states requiring all-party consent to recording did so in the wake of Watergate; I'd call that a pretty good example of why such laws exist.
2014-04-12 12:46:00 PM  
1 votes:
The video is pretty brutal... :-(
2014-04-12 12:38:53 PM  
1 votes:
I'll never understand why necessity doesn't prevail in cases like this.
2014-04-12 12:38:08 PM  
1 votes:
I had commented on a redlinked item.  This kid is in a completely losing situation.  His only option is to move.
2014-04-12 12:33:41 PM  
1 votes:
Sounds about right for PA. They're about 20 years behind everyone else with their laws.
2014-04-11 12:15:06 PM  
1 votes:

ReverendJynxed: Uh, as long as one of the parties involved (the victim in this case) has knowledge of the taping, it's ok ain't it?


Some states are one-party consent, some are two.

/RsTFA...

PA is a two-party consent state.

Still, the school official is a dick.
2014-04-11 12:08:08 PM  
1 votes:
What the victim might have looked like...

i76.photobucket.com
2014-04-11 12:07:37 PM  
1 votes:

ReverendJynxed: Uh, as long as one of the parties involved (the victim in this case) has knowledge of the taping, it's ok ain't it?


That depends on the state.  In PA, you need the consent of all parties.
2014-04-11 12:05:44 PM  
1 votes:
Uh, as long as one of the parties involved (the victim in this case) has knowledge of the taping, it's ok ain't it?
 
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