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(Ecorazzi)   Anthony Bourdain finally admits to appreciating vegetarian cuisine, at least as made in Punjab. "If this is what vegetarianism meant in most of the places that practice it in the West, I'd be at least half as much less of a dick about the subject"   ( ecorazzi.com) divider line
    More: Amusing, Anthony Bourdain, Punjab, vegetarian cuisine, Bewitched, offal, technical term, Indian food, vegetarians  
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2484 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Apr 2014 at 10:53 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-11 09:58:33 AM  
There's a Punjabi restaurant near me and I'm in no way a vegetarian but we go there all the time, at least 3 times a month, because the food is so farking delicious.
 
2014-04-11 10:08:47 AM  
I don't know Punjabi cuisine in particular, but I've been to Indian ceremonies without meat and I surprisingly didn't miss it. Delicious, flavorful food and sauces. Of course, when my wife says "no meat on Friday during lent" she means pizza and pasta. Good things, but they are lacking without meat.
 
2014-04-11 10:19:40 AM  
I only know a handful of vegetarians well enough to have eaten their food regularly. My limited exposure has taught me that I, an omnivore, like vegetables a lot more than they do. The vegetarians I know don't seem to actually like vegetables all that much. They pretty much just eat rice, pasta, and bread all the time, and their actual veggie intake is limited to a few basic ones. Lettuce, tomatoes, some beans, that's about it.

My theory is that some people are genetically inclined to enjoy food more than others. And the latter group is more represented among vegetarians, because it's easier to take a moral stand when it's less of a personal sacrifice to do it.
 
2014-04-11 10:21:29 AM  
That's probably because Punjab cuisine doesn't rely on crap like soy bratwurst and meat-flavored veggie burgers. Here in the states, we make these veggie knockoffs of meat dishes, and they're rarely worth the trouble
 
2014-04-11 10:57:23 AM  
Pretty sure he'd still find a way to be a dick.
 
2014-04-11 11:01:06 AM  
isn't his complaint more cultural than fundamental? i.e., meat is a luxury in the vast majority of the world, and tastes really damn good on top of that, so forgoing it for new age pseudo bullshiat reasons is stupid and doubly so when you make fake meats as a loophole.

he's always seemed to enjoy good vegetarian food when it is good food. doubly so when it's from a culture whose cuisine didn't grow up around meats
 
2014-04-11 11:05:27 AM  

someonelse: I only know a handful of vegetarians well enough to have eaten their food regularly. My limited exposure has taught me that I, an omnivore, like vegetables a lot more than they do. The vegetarians I know don't seem to actually like vegetables all that much. They pretty much just eat rice, pasta, and bread all the time, and their actual veggie intake is limited to a few basic ones. Lettuce, tomatoes, some beans, that's about it.

My theory is that some people are genetically inclined to enjoy food more than others. And the latter group is more represented among vegetarians, because it's easier to take a moral stand when it's less of a personal sacrifice to do it.


I gotta say, you need to hang around some vegetarians and vegans who have access to decent farmer's markets and know how to cook.

I agree that some people just like food more than others and are more inclined to cook good food, but I've found that trait equally shared between omnis and veggie folk.

I've been vegan for about twelve years and my fridge usually has no less than seven varieties of veggies (not counting basic greens) at any given time.  My sauces, condiments, and seasonings are overflowing.  Grains take up the least amount of room in my kitchen.

In short, make some veggie friends who actually LIKE to cook.
 
2014-04-11 11:05:45 AM  

Vodka Zombie: That's probably because Punjab cuisine doesn't rely on crap like soy bratwurst and meat-flavored veggie burgers. Here in the states, we make these veggie knockoffs of meat dishes, and they're rarely worth the trouble


That. If you have the notion that every meal needs meat, and that meat needs to be replaced by something meat-like*, vegetarian food is gonna suck.

* - that's being excessively generous with some 'meatless-meat' products

Gig103: pizza and pasta. Good things, but they are lacking without meat.


If you just omit meat from what you'd normally make, yeah, I can see it. But there's a ton of stuff you can do with pizza and pasta where you won't even notice the lack of meat.
 
2014-04-11 11:06:04 AM  

Vodka Zombie: That's probably because Punjab cuisine doesn't rely on crap like soy bratwurst and meat-flavored veggie burgers. Here in the states, we make these veggie knockoffs of meat dishes, and they're rarely worth the trouble


Boca spicy "chicken" patties and Morningstar Farms sausage patties/black bean burgers are the only substitutes worth a damn. Everything else is unenjoyable.

The Crepes of Wrath: Pretty sure he'd still find a way to be a dick.


He knows what makes him money.
 
2014-04-11 11:09:31 AM  

emocomputerjock: Boca spicy "chicken" patties and Morningstar Farms sausage patties/black bean burgers are the only substitutes worth a damn. Everything else is unenjoyable.


I've always found my enjoyment of meat substitutes to be inversely proportional to how much they're trying to be meat-like. Garden burgers, for instance, are damn tasty. Not even a little bit like meat though.
 
2014-04-11 11:11:18 AM  

someonelse: I only know a handful of vegetarians well enough to have eaten their food regularly. My limited exposure has taught me that I, an omnivore, like vegetables a lot more than they do. The vegetarians I know don't seem to actually like vegetables all that much. They pretty much just eat rice, pasta, and bread all the time, and their actual veggie intake is limited to a few basic ones. Lettuce, tomatoes, some beans, that's about it.


I called a lot of these, (and a lot of vegans at university) "french fry vegans". Despite having a vegan station in the dining hall, that even meat lover ole me went to often because they tried the most interesting concepts out of the entire offering there, and often pretty damn good ones (their homemade felafel was amazing) they would eat loads of french fries and rice because they were "vegan", and ignore the whole "veg" part.

These were usually the guys who went vegan or vegetarian to impress the chicks with their sensitivity. I knew a guy who gained about 20lbs in a couple of months because after he became vegetarian he ate nothing but starches.

Hell I knew a girl who gained 40lbs on a raw vegan diet. Not sure how she managed that.
 
2014-04-11 11:17:42 AM  
South East Asia is great for vegetarian food in general. I'll rarely touch tofu unless it was made by someone good at Szechuan cuisine.
 
2014-04-11 11:20:06 AM  

costermonger: Garden burgers, for instance, are damn tasty. Not even a little bit like meat though.


portabello cap as burger patty is also p baller
 
2014-04-11 11:20:31 AM  

someonelse: I only know a handful of vegetarians well enough to have eaten their food regularly. My limited exposure has taught me that I, an omnivore, like vegetables a lot more than they do. The vegetarians I know don't seem to actually like vegetables all that much. They pretty much just eat rice, pasta, and bread all the time, and their actual veggie intake is limited to a few basic ones. Lettuce, tomatoes, some beans, that's about it.

My theory is that some people are genetically inclined to enjoy food more than others. And the latter group is more represented among vegetarians, because it's easier to take a moral stand when it's less of a personal sacrifice to do it.


That's an amazing theory considering the huge, vast number of omnivores/carnivores who subsist on burgers and fries to the exclusion of everything else.  Limited diet, lack of variety, and avoidance of vegetables can HARDLY be attributed to vegetarians more than carnivores.  Everybody has an equal shot at being lazy and eating poorly.  It's just a little easier to do that by scarfing burgers, at least in this culture.

Vegetarians just don't enjoy food?  You're sticking with that one?  'Cause it's nonsense.
 
2014-04-11 11:24:13 AM  

sprawl15: portabello cap as burger patty is also p baller


This thread is making me hungry.
 
2014-04-11 11:26:26 AM  
Indian food is great. I love it. At least I know I could become a vegetarian if I developed a health condition that required I drop meat from my diet.
 
2014-04-11 11:35:34 AM  
I tried that un-chicken stuff at Trader Joe's the other day, and I gotta admit, I was strangely impressed.
 
2014-04-11 11:35:59 AM  
For some reason many vegetarians seem to have forgotten that spices are vegetarian.
 
2014-04-11 11:38:23 AM  
Teknowaffle: Hell I knew a girl who gained 40lbs on a raw vegan diet. Not sure how she managed that.

In college? Probably was the Patriarchy... (KIDDING!!!)

Have to say that I've had my share of great vegetarian dishes, but I could admit that there was a great deal of cheating in them, since they had either butter, eggs or cheese.

I still have to try a vegan meal that makes me question my love for meat, but once I had a quinoa tabule that was just so amazing, that I replaced rice with quinoa since then.
 
2014-04-11 11:39:40 AM  
Anyone else watch "The Taste"?  I 'bout died when they selected a vegan chef.
 
2014-04-11 11:40:38 AM  
He's made this point several times.  There's video of him at a Google event where he responds to a question by an Indian developer and says that he doesn't look down at vegetarian traditions around the world (In fact, he holds Indian cuisine in high esteem) or even at those who are vegetarian for moral reasons.  What annoys him are people who are trendy vegetarians.
 
2014-04-11 11:43:09 AM  
I'm pretty sure I could eat my own pillow if it were cooked and prepared with Punjabi spices/methods/whatever. Their stuff is just ridiculously tasty.
 
2014-04-11 11:49:46 AM  

DarkPascual: Have to say that I've had my share of great vegetarian dishes, but I could admit that there was a great deal of cheating in them, since they had either butter, eggs or cheese.


Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.
 
2014-04-11 11:50:44 AM  

Stile4aly: He's made this point several times.  There's video of him at a Google event where he responds to a question by an Indian developer and says that he doesn't look down at vegetarian traditions around the world (In fact, he holds Indian cuisine in high esteem) or even at those who are vegetarian for moral reasons.  What annoys him are people who are trendy vegetarians.


Well that's an utterly stupid position for him to take, then.  He owes his livelihood to the trendiness of food.  Where the fark does he think his money's come from?  The man interviewed the Cronut guy on TV!!
 
2014-04-11 11:53:59 AM  

Superjew: Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.


So are eggs and vegetables.  I wouldn't call it cheating if there's no sociopolitical statement being made by self-identifying as a vegetarian, but you'd have to be f*cking high to think eggs are "100% vegetarian."
 
2014-04-11 11:56:20 AM  

Superjew: DarkPascual: Have to say that I've had my share of great vegetarian dishes, but I could admit that there was a great deal of cheating in them, since they had either butter, eggs or cheese.

Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.


The vegan thing has really screwed things up for ordinary bog-standard vegetarians.  "Yes, lacto-ovo, it means milk and eggs.  NO!  People who eat fish are still eating animals and they're called pescetarians.  No your 'vegetarian' friend scarfing down the shrimp at the buffet is just a lying idiot.  No I don't give a crap what you eat; I'm having the fettucini."
 
2014-04-11 11:56:36 AM  
There are many things to love and hate about travelling in India.  Food is one of those things to love.  It's very easy to realize you've gone days or even a week without eating meat, having never really thought about it one way or the other when ordering.

From the north, I really like ragda patties.  That said, I prefer Hyderabadi cooking, which doesn't avoid meat.
 
2014-04-11 11:58:54 AM  

thamike: Superjew: Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.

So are eggs and vegetables.  I wouldn't call it cheating if there's no sociopolitical statement being made by self-identifying as a vegetarian, but you'd have to be f*cking high to think eggs are "100% vegetarian."


You'd have to be literally illiterate to think that vegetarians don't eat eggs.  VEGETARIAN DOES NOT EQUAL VEGAN.
 
2014-04-11 11:59:52 AM  
My brother in law married a vegetarian.  Not a pure vegan, but she won't eat anything that involves a dead animal.  No meat, no fish, and I doubt she'd eat anything with red dye that comes from those beetles they crush up.  A few months ago I saw the first picture I'd seen of them in a few years and their health was clearly in the dumper.  Pale, astounding weight gains, it was sad to see.  Then I found out that neither of them really know how to cook.  They are basically living on starch (pasta, bread, etc), along with some vegetables and a bit of cheese.  That's not remotely a healthy diet.  If I thought it would do any good I'd buy them an Indian cookbook in a heartbeat. India has had a huge vegetarian population for generations and they have learned how to make non-meat dishes that not only keep you alive, but are also very healthy, AND they taste farking good.  As has been mentioned upthread by now I'm sure, Bourdain doesn't have an issue with veg per se,it's the people who do it for stupid reasons and who don't know how to do it right.
 
2014-04-11 12:00:30 PM  

Far Cough: thamike: Superjew: Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.

So are eggs and vegetables.  I wouldn't call it cheating if there's no sociopolitical statement being made by self-identifying as a vegetarian, but you'd have to be f*cking high to think eggs are "100% vegetarian."

You'd have to be literally illiterate to think that vegetarians don't eat eggs.  VEGETARIAN DOES NOT EQUAL VEGAN.


Meh, vegetarians all make up their own rules.  "Fish isn't meat",  "Chicken isn't meat", etc.  If chicken is meat, why aren't eggs?

/They're all meat.
 
2014-04-11 12:01:57 PM  
Came for the posts about the smug vegans.  Leaving disappointed.
 
2014-04-11 12:03:38 PM  

Beeblebrox: Far Cough: thamike: Superjew: Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.

So are eggs and vegetables.  I wouldn't call it cheating if there's no sociopolitical statement being made by self-identifying as a vegetarian, but you'd have to be f*cking high to think eggs are "100% vegetarian."

You'd have to be literally illiterate to think that vegetarians don't eat eggs.  VEGETARIAN DOES NOT EQUAL VEGAN.

Meh, vegetarians all make up their own rules.  "Fish isn't meat",  "Chicken isn't meat", etc.  If chicken is meat, why aren't eggs?

/They're all meat.


No, PEOPLE make up their own rules.  There's actually a meaning to the word "vegetarian".  Fish was never a part of it.

Eggs aren't meat for the same reason fellatio doesn't make your wife a cannibal, and the same reason abortionists aren't murderers.

If nothing else, the damn things aren't even fertilized!
 
2014-04-11 12:04:26 PM  

Superjew: DarkPascual: Have to say that I've had my share of great vegetarian dishes, but I could admit that there was a great deal of cheating in them, since they had either butter, eggs or cheese.

Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.


I understand that, but I've been told a few times that there seem to be a "percentage" of dairy and eggs that is "cheating". Sorta like those people that say that are vegetarian except for fish...

Not that I really care, I'm not really into making my dietary behavior into a socioplitical statement, I just eat and enjoy what is delicious, be meat or vegetables... but I had just to many debates about what really is vegetarian or vegan that is not even funny anymore.

/I guess I could go for some Indian vegetarian lunch today...
 
2014-04-11 12:04:46 PM  

Far Cough: You'd have to be literally illiterate to think that vegetarians don't eat eggs.  VEGETARIAN DOES NOT EQUAL VEGAN.


Think I was pretty clear on the fact that some vegetarians eat eggs.  You just can't call an egg 100% vegetarian without looking retarded.  It's meat.  And stop yelling, psycho.
 
2014-04-11 12:05:13 PM  
 
2014-04-11 12:06:05 PM  

Far Cough: Eggs aren't meat for the same reason fellatio doesn't make your wife a cannibal, and the same reason abortionists aren't murderers.


Holy balls. Clean up my keyboard please.
 
2014-04-11 12:06:22 PM  

mistrmind: Came for the posts about the smug vegans.  Leaving disappointed.


Vegan: Someone who thinks they're superior to others because they don't eat the animals that die for their food.

/Does that help?
 
2014-04-11 12:07:39 PM  

DarkPascual: I understand that, but I've been told a few times that there seem to be a "percentage" of dairy and eggs that is "cheating".


That makes no sense.  At all.  People make up their own diets and rules (I sure do) but that makes no sense.  If you eat meat once a week you eat meat, you're not a vegan.  If you never eat meat you're a vegetarian.  Milk and eggs are part of classic vegetarianism.  People who eat fish are pescetarians.  I don't give a flying fark what you eat but all these words have meanings.
 
2014-04-11 12:08:34 PM  

Teufelaffe: mistrmind: Came for the posts about the smug vegans.  Leaving disappointed.

Vegan: Someone who thinks they're superior to others because they don't eat the animals that die for their food.

/Does that help?


No, but thanks for trying.
 
2014-04-11 12:11:18 PM  
 The best veggie dishes are generally in ethic restaurants, because there are many cherished veggies dishes that have been passed on for generations.   The ingredients are treated with respect.  I try to only eat meat on rare occasions.  That means I eat at a lot of vegetarian places, and most of them are horrible.  It's strange to me how many vegetarian places seemingly don't even like vegetables.   They don't buy the veggies that are in season which are at peak flavor.  They over cook them down to a bland, tasteless mush.   They try to  morph veggies into something that resembles another dish so that you can't tell what vegetable you're eating.   It makes one wonder how many vegetarians just aren't that into food in general, and it makes it that much easier to give up meat for health/ethical/cost reasons.
 
2014-04-11 12:13:54 PM  
Damn now I got a hankering for thali.
 
2014-04-11 12:16:09 PM  

Far Cough: DarkPascual: I understand that, but I've been told a few times that there seem to be a "percentage" of dairy and eggs that is "cheating".

That makes no sense.  At all.  People make up their own diets and rules (I sure do) but that makes no sense.  If you eat meat once a week you eat meat, you're not a vegan.  If you never eat meat you're a vegetarian.  Milk and eggs are part of classic vegetarianism.  People who eat fish are pescetarians.  I don't give a flying fark what you eat but all these words have meanings.


I didn't say it makes sense, because I don't think it does...

I've seen people throwing fits because of cheese fries, spinnach omellettes and veggie pizzas, none of them with a gram of meat, arguing that if it the amount of vegetables is not superior to the amount of... other things, is not really vegetarian. Yes, it has to do more with people being whinny idiots than anything else... but still, I find it confusing.
 
2014-04-11 12:21:05 PM  
can vegetarians eat fruit?

it is a mystery
 
2014-04-11 12:21:32 PM  
Meat has fat and muscle tissue, right?

Does egg have muscle tissue in it?  /rhetorical.

Eggs are not meat.

Feathers come from chickens too, but they're not meat...

Not going to weigh in on the dietary rules of vegetarians.  Eat what you want.  Call it what you want.

Just don't annoy me by being smug about your diet, whatever you call it, or I will be forced to mock you and be snarky.
 
2014-04-11 12:23:20 PM  
Can we agree there's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian until you invite them to a restaurant? Individually customized diets make for shiatty lunch options.
 
2014-04-11 12:31:58 PM  

Far Cough: Beeblebrox: Far Cough: thamike: Superjew: Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.

So are eggs and vegetables.  I wouldn't call it cheating if there's no sociopolitical statement being made by self-identifying as a vegetarian, but you'd have to be f*cking high to think eggs are "100% vegetarian."

You'd have to be literally illiterate to think that vegetarians don't eat eggs.  VEGETARIAN DOES NOT EQUAL VEGAN.

Meh, vegetarians all make up their own rules.  "Fish isn't meat",  "Chicken isn't meat", etc.  If chicken is meat, why aren't eggs?

/They're all meat.

No, PEOPLE make up their own rules.  There's actually a meaning to the word "vegetarian".  Fish was never a part of it.

Eggs aren't meat for the same reason fellatio doesn't make your wife a cannibal, and the same reason abortionists aren't murderers.

If nothing else, the damn things aren't even fertilized!


Eggs aren't meat. They are animal-based food, though, and I suppose that makes a difference to some people.
 
2014-04-11 12:33:41 PM  
He'd still be a dick
 
2014-04-11 12:34:19 PM  
There's a Punjab joint just across the bay from me.  Guess I'll have to stop by.
 
2014-04-11 12:37:38 PM  

Far Cough: someonelse: I only know a handful of vegetarians well enough to have eaten their food regularly. My limited exposure has taught me that I, an omnivore, like vegetables a lot more than they do. The vegetarians I know don't seem to actually like vegetables all that much. They pretty much just eat rice, pasta, and bread all the time, and their actual veggie intake is limited to a few basic ones. Lettuce, tomatoes, some beans, that's about it.

My theory is that some people are genetically inclined to enjoy food more than others. And the latter group is more represented among vegetarians, because it's easier to take a moral stand when it's less of a personal sacrifice to do it.

That's an amazing theory considering the huge, vast number of omnivores/carnivores who subsist on burgers and fries to the exclusion of everything else.  Limited diet, lack of variety, and avoidance of vegetables can HARDLY be attributed to vegetarians more than carnivores. Everybody has an equal shot at being lazy and eating poorly.  It's just a little easier to do that by scarfing burgers, at least in this culture.

Vegetarians just don't enjoy food?  You're sticking with that one?  'Cause it's nonsense.


Agreed. But I didn't make that claim. Similarly, I didn't say vegetarians don't enjoy food. I theorized that there's a higher representation among vegetarians of people who are less food-oriented. And I gave what I consider to be a pretty logical reason for that. So, yeah, I'm sticking with it.
 
2014-04-11 12:40:31 PM  

Stile4aly: He's made this point several times.  There's video of him at a Google event where he responds to a question by an Indian developer and says that he doesn't look down at vegetarian traditions around the world (In fact, he holds Indian cuisine in high esteem) or even at those who are vegetarian for moral reasons.  What annoys him are people who are trendy vegetarians.


i can go with that. My wife is south Indian and cooks lots of great vegetarian. The only meat she will use is egg or chicken, if I cut the chicken. She doesn't do it for moral or religious reasons, just for taste. Western vegetarian food seems ashamed of itself, with meat substitutes or else steamed asparagus on a plate. With Indian veggie dishes you don't even miss the meat because of the flavors and textures.
 
2014-04-11 12:42:17 PM  

Teknowaffle: Hell I knew a girl who gained 40lbs on a raw vegan diet. Not sure how she managed that.


By being raw vegan only when around other people, most likely.
 
2014-04-11 12:44:11 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: For some reason many vegetarians seem to have forgotten that spices are vegetarian.


Yes! Why is that? Even vegetarian restaurants seem to avoid spices. I understand that certain things deserve to take center stage unadorned -- a perfectly ripe tomato or peach, for example. But the lack of seasoning in so much vegetarian food is weirdly puritanical. You need to build layers of flavor, people.
 
2014-04-11 12:47:26 PM  

someonelse: Far Cough: someonelse: I only know a handful of vegetarians well enough to have eaten their food regularly. My limited exposure has taught me that I, an omnivore, like vegetables a lot more than they do. The vegetarians I know don't seem to actually like vegetables all that much. They pretty much just eat rice, pasta, and bread all the time, and their actual veggie intake is limited to a few basic ones. Lettuce, tomatoes, some beans, that's about it.

My theory is that some people are genetically inclined to enjoy food more than others. And the latter group is more represented among vegetarians, because it's easier to take a moral stand when it's less of a personal sacrifice to do it.

That's an amazing theory considering the huge, vast number of omnivores/carnivores who subsist on burgers and fries to the exclusion of everything else.  Limited diet, lack of variety, and avoidance of vegetables can HARDLY be attributed to vegetarians more than carnivores. Everybody has an equal shot at being lazy and eating poorly.  It's just a little easier to do that by scarfing burgers, at least in this culture.

Vegetarians just don't enjoy food?  You're sticking with that one?  'Cause it's nonsense.

Agreed. But I didn't make that claim. Similarly, I didn't say vegetarians don't enjoy food. I theorized that there's a higher representation among vegetarians of people who are less food-oriented. And I gave what I consider to be a pretty logical reason for that. So, yeah, I'm sticking with it.


And I said your "pretty logical reason" just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.  I realize we're both basically talking out our respective rectums here, but saying that your vegetarian friends don't seem into food isn't much of a basis on which to draw conclusions.  But I guess without data there's not much else I can say.

If I were to similarly guess, I'd have to say it goes completely the other way, because so many meat eaters can and do safely ignore diet and variety, whereas veggies have made a concerted effort to pay attention.  But my guess is as good or bad as yours....
 
2014-04-11 12:49:48 PM  

someonelse: Tyrone Slothrop: For some reason many vegetarians seem to have forgotten that spices are vegetarian.

Yes! Why is that? Even vegetarian restaurants seem to avoid spices. I understand that certain things deserve to take center stage unadorned -- a perfectly ripe tomato or peach, for example. But the lack of seasoning in so much vegetarian food is weirdly puritanical. You need to build layers of flavor, people.


I've noticed the division between vegetarians who enjoy good food and vegetarians who eat sh*t corresponds fairly closely with vegetarians who just don't like eating meat and vegetarians who don't like people who eat meat.
 
2014-04-11 12:54:28 PM  

Far Cough: saying that your vegetarian friends don't seem into food isn't much of a basis on which to draw conclusions.


Very true. Some of my favorite picnic/bbq/dinner friends are vegetarians and they are total saveurs and wicked cooks.  Though I do understand Bourdain's point about the West, in regards to eating establishments.

I have to say though, that the reason vegetarian options at restaurants are at times dismal is more likely because there's a twatwaffle executive chef with some sort of aesthetic hangup who is making overpriced, underspiced squash and sh*t purely out of malice.
 
2014-04-11 01:03:14 PM  

thamike: Far Cough: saying that your vegetarian friends don't seem into food isn't much of a basis on which to draw conclusions.

Very true. Some of my favorite picnic/bbq/dinner friends are vegetarians and they are total saveurs and wicked cooks.  Though I do understand Bourdain's point about the West, in regards to eating establishments.

I have to say though, that the reason vegetarian options at restaurants are at times dismal is more likely because there's a twatwaffle executive chef with some sort of aesthetic hangup who is making overpriced, underspiced squash and sh*t purely out of malice.


Well, yeah, it's pretty clear that most chefs hate vegetarians; Bourdain is hardly an outlier.  It's mostly the culture they've trained and eaten in, but I think it's also simpler things like practicality and economics.  Meat is a huge crowd pleaser, the dishes often take far LESS work, they're known quantities, and appeal to the vast majority of their less-picky clientele.  Great vegetarian dishes take work, and in a brew pub they're just not going to get the demand to make it worthwhile.  That's why I'm always grateful when there are some decent vegetarian options.  The last thing I want to do is ask a kitchen to cook something special.  No need to be a pain in the ass.  If in doubt, get some fries and a salad and grab a burrito or pizza on the way home.  Not the end of the world.
 
2014-04-11 01:03:15 PM  

thamike: you'd have to be f*cking high to think eggs are "100% vegetarian."


Eggs are 100% OK for your standard vegetarian diet.

Please learn more about what you are talking about before shiatting all over the internet.
 
2014-04-11 01:05:05 PM  
As a pretty hardcore carnivore I can honestly say I've had some pretty slammin' vegetarian food a good few times.


Bourdain, as always, can go eat a bag of dicks.  He's an effete snob and a weak bully.
 
2014-04-11 01:07:40 PM  

Superjew: Eggs are 100% OK for your standard vegetarian diet.

Please learn more about what you are talking about before shiatting all over the internet.


Read the thread before you comment, and your sh*t won't have to touch my sh*t.
 
2014-04-11 01:09:16 PM  

stonelotus: As a pretty hardcore carnivore I can honestly say I've had some pretty slammin' vegetarian food a good few times.


Bourdain, as always, can go eat a bag of dicks.  He's an effete snob and a weak bully.


Eating a bag of dicks is more Andrew Zimmern's thing.
 
2014-04-11 01:12:10 PM  
When I moved to Las Vegas, there was exactly one vegan restaurant. They not only hated meat, they refused to use any spices. Took a vegan GF there once, never went back. The only vegetarian cookbook I use is about 90% Indian, with helpful hints on how to make the dishes without needing hasmat gear.
 
2014-04-11 01:12:33 PM  

someonelse: tual veggie intake is limited to a few basic ones. Lettuce, tomatoes, some beans, that's about it.

My theory is that some people are genetically inclined to enjoy food more than others. And the latter g


/newsletter, subscribe....
 
2014-04-11 01:13:39 PM  

Superjew: thamike: you'd have to be f*cking high to think eggs are "100% vegetarian."

Eggs are 100% OK for your standard vegetarian diet.

Please learn more about what you are talking about before shiatting all over the internet.


He's confusing vegan with vegetarian, I guess, or claiming that any animal protein violates vegetarianism.  (Though he actually called eggs "meat" above!)

Hey, I'll be the first or second to admit that veganism is a lot easier to understand in a black-or-white way exactly because it's so severe (the anti-honey thing is still ridiculous to me) but, again, there's a very long history of what an ordinary "vegetarian" means, and it's a heck of a lot easier diet than veganism.  People don't need to be dickwads about it just because there's "veg" in the name -- HEY PUT THAT GLASS DOWN, WATER ISN'T A "VEGETABLE", NAH NAH CAUGHT YOU.
 
2014-04-11 01:17:20 PM  
In this thread: I learned eggs are meat.
 
2014-04-11 01:18:11 PM  

Transpogue: someonelse: I only know a handful of vegetarians well enough to have eaten their food regularly. My limited exposure has taught me that I, an omnivore, like vegetables a lot more than they do. The vegetarians I know don't seem to actually like vegetables all that much. They pretty much just eat rice, pasta, and bread all the time, and their actual veggie intake is limited to a few basic ones. Lettuce, tomatoes, some beans, that's about it.

My theory is that some people are genetically inclined to enjoy food more than others. And the latter group is more represented among vegetarians, because it's easier to take a moral stand when it's less of a personal sacrifice to do it.

I gotta say, you need to hang around some vegetarians and vegans who have access to decent farmer's markets and know how to cook.

I agree that some people just like food more than others and are more inclined to cook good food, but I've found that trait equally shared between omnis and veggie folk.

I've been vegan for about twelve years and my fridge usually has no less than seven varieties of veggies (not counting basic greens) at any given time.  My sauces, condiments, and seasonings are overflowing.  Grains take up the least amount of room in my kitchen.

In short, make some veggie friends who actually LIKE to cook.


THIS
/former vegan
 
2014-04-11 01:18:11 PM  

Far Cough: He's confusing vegan with vegetarian, I guess, or claiming that any animal protein violates vegetarianism.  (Though he actually called eggs "meat" above!)


I'm not confusing anything with anything, as I've exhaustively pointed out.  You're the one who said "words mean things" in regards to people whose protein choice is fish.   You can call yourself a vegetarian and eat eggs all you want, i don't give a sh*t.

You just can't call an egg "100% vegetarian" and be correct.  That's usually why vegetarians who do eat eggs say things like, "I'm a vegetarian, but I do eat eggs."  Qualifiers mean things.
 
2014-04-11 01:19:14 PM  

thamike: I've noticed the division between vegetarians who enjoy good food and vegetarians who eat sh*t corresponds fairly closely with vegetarians who just don't like eating meat and vegetarians who don't like people who eat meat.


This this thisity this.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't have to have meat at every meal or even every day. Sometimes I just want to plow through a whole mess of tasty vegetables cooked right. Sometimes I wanna channel my inner predator. The bonus of being an omnivore is that you can eat just about anything. And the genius of human cooking means that proper preparation, spicing and combination means you can a meal taste fabulous regardless of what's in it.
 
2014-04-11 01:19:26 PM  

emocomputerjock: Vodka Zombie: That's probably because Punjab cuisine doesn't rely on crap like soy bratwurst and meat-flavored veggie burgers. Here in the states, we make these veggie knockoffs of meat dishes, and they're rarely worth the trouble

Boca spicy "chicken" patties and Morningstar Farms sausage patties/black bean burgers are the only substitutes worth a damn. Everything else is unenjoyable.

The Crepes of Wrath: Pretty sure he'd still find a way to be a dick.

He knows what makes him money.


I tried to go vegan or vegetarian or something in high school (of course) and I think I really liked seitan? Maybe? Something like that. And yeah, the boca spicy chicken is really good. I actually like veggie burgers too, but I don't really think of them as a substitute for meat. Just a different thing completely. The texture is usually interesting though, and the flavor of a good veggie burger is more interesting, I think.

Must've been vegan because I think that was when I tried carob. Which is horribly if you eat it trying to get fake chocolate, but really good if you just take it for what it is. Weird, though.
 
2014-04-11 01:19:40 PM  

costermonger: In this thread: I learned eggs are meat.


Poultry, actually.


Or Pre-Poultry, if you want to get all Minority Report about it.
 
2014-04-11 01:21:01 PM  

WinstonWolf: Meat has fat and muscle tissue, right?

Does egg have muscle tissue in it?  /rhetorical.

Eggs are not meat.

Feathers come from chickens too, but they're not meat...

Not going to weigh in on the dietary rules of vegetarians.  Eat what you want.  Call it what you want.

Just don't annoy me by being smug about your diet, whatever you call it, or I will be forced to mock you and be snarky.


No one eats feathers. Are they even digestible?
 
2014-04-11 01:21:34 PM  

theorellior: I don't have to have meat at every meal or even every day


People who do kind of put me off.  That's a colontastrophe waiting to happen.
 
2014-04-11 01:22:22 PM  

thamike: Far Cough: He's confusing vegan with vegetarian, I guess, or claiming that any animal protein violates vegetarianism.  (Though he actually called eggs "meat" above!)

I'm not confusing anything with anything, as I've exhaustively pointed out.  You're the one who said "words mean things" in regards to people whose protein choice is fish.   You can call yourself a vegetarian and eat eggs all you want, i don't give a sh*t.

You just can't call an egg "100% vegetarian" and be correct.  That's usually why vegetarians who do eat eggs say things like, "I'm a vegetarian, but I do eat eggs."  Qualifiers mean things.


Dude, but that's wrong!  Saying it again doesn't make it right.  Lacto-ovo vegetarianism IS THE STANDARD form of vegetarianism.  It always has been.  That's what it vegetarianism MEANS.  (And I'm not shouting; I just don't love HTML.)   You sound mostly reasonable, but you're just wrong here.
 
2014-04-11 01:22:49 PM  
So unfertilized ovum of any species is ok for a vegetarian?
 
2014-04-11 01:26:40 PM  

thamike: stonelotus: As a pretty hardcore carnivore I can honestly say I've had some pretty slammin' vegetarian food a good few times.


Bourdain, as always, can go eat a bag of dicks.  He's an effete snob and a weak bully.

Eating a bag of dicks is more Andrew Zimmern's thing.


God I love that man. I would totally marry him and go eat weird things and have lots of money.
 
2014-04-11 01:29:13 PM  

Far Cough: Lacto-ovo vegetarianism IS THE STANDARD form of vegetarianism.


But, you felt the need to put the qualifier, right?  There's a reason for that.  Look, i'm done with this particular rabbit hole.  I don't care what people eat as long as it tastes good and it isn't my pet or a friend of mine.  I will never, however point at an egg and call it 100% vegetarian, just like I will never point at a vegetarian and say "HA HA b*tch, I've discovered your secret vault of eggs!"
 
2014-04-11 01:29:40 PM  

thamike: People who do kind of put me off. That's a colontastrophe waiting to happen.


People can eat what they please, but what puts me off is people who whine about it. No one's gonna pull your Man Card and you're not gonna die of malnutrition if you end up eating a vegan falafel/hummus wrap or some sweet and sour tofu for lunch.
 
2014-04-11 01:30:23 PM  

doloresonthedottedline: God I love that man. I would totally marry him and go eat weird things and have lots of money.


You can tell that guy eats out a mean pussy.  I mean he's gotta be all over that.
 
2014-04-11 01:31:39 PM  

thamike: Far Cough: Lacto-ovo vegetarianism IS THE STANDARD form of vegetarianism.

But, you felt the need to put the qualifier, right?  There's a reason for that.  Look, i'm done with this particular rabbit hole.  I don't care what people eat as long as it tastes good and it isn't my pet or a friend of mine.  I will never, however point at an egg and call it 100% vegetarian, just like I will never point at a vegetarian and say "HA HA b*tch, I've discovered your secret vault of eggs!"


Actually, in many parts of the east Eggs are considered meat, and are not considered a part of the vegetarian diet.

So I guess lacto-ovo vegetarianism is the standard one in the west.
 
2014-04-11 01:32:01 PM  

theorellior: thamike: People who do kind of put me off. That's a colontastrophe waiting to happen.

People can eat what they please, but what puts me off is people who whine about it. No one's gonna pull your Man Card and you're not gonna die of malnutrition if you end up eating a vegan falafel/hummus wrap or some sweet and sour tofu for lunch.


It's not as common in the wild as it is in internet forums, at least not as common as the JUS' A REGLAR COFFEE guy is at Starbucks.
 
2014-04-11 01:36:17 PM  

thamike: Far Cough: Lacto-ovo vegetarianism IS THE STANDARD form of vegetarianism.

But, you felt the need to put the qualifier, right?  There's a reason for that.  Look, i'm done with this particular rabbit hole.  I don't care what people eat as long as it tastes good and it isn't my pet or a friend of mine.  I will never, however point at an egg and call it 100% vegetarian, just like I will never point at a vegetarian and say "HA HA b*tch, I've discovered your secret vault of eggs!"


The "reason for that" is that you don't seem to understand it, or want to understand it.  You're coming from an apparent position of ignorance and absolutely refusing to concede that truth.

You even made me resort to pulling up the definition from the oldest vegetarian group in the western world...

What is a vegetarian?
The Vegetarian Society defines a vegetarian as: "Someone who lives on a diet of grains, pulses, nuts, seeds, vegetables and fruits with, or without, the use of dairy products and eggs. A vegetarian does not eat any meat, poultry, game, fish, shellfish* or by-products of slaughter."

There are different types of vegetarian:
Lacto-ovo-vegetarians eat both dairy products and eggs; this is the most common type of vegetarian diet.


You're also got this thing about calling the egg itself "100% vegetarian" as if had to pass some kind of purity test or something.  The egg doesn't have a diet, and it's not yet a living thing.  It's a bog standard ordinary part of the vegetarian diet for people, no matter how much you like to say otherwise.

Oh, that's right, you're still walking away with your fingers in your ears now, 'cause eggs are still meat 'cause you say so.  Ciao.
 
2014-04-11 01:39:08 PM  

theorellior: thamike: People who do kind of put me off. That's a colontastrophe waiting to happen.

People can eat what they please, but what puts me off is people who whine about it. No one's gonna pull your Man Card and you're not gonna die of malnutrition if you end up eating a vegan falafel/hummus wrap or some sweet and sour tofu for lunch.


I would say vegetarians/vegans are more vocal about it than omnivore/carnivores.

If I do not want to eat something, and I will tell you, I do not eat or want that, I will just say no.  I do not need a long winded explanation about animals, mother earth, or why it is good for me.  If I do not like something I do not like it.

However, many non meat eaters will lecture you for hours on end about their food customs and why they are superior.

I would say vegetables are about 90% of my diet, but I do eat steak or chicken at least once a week.

However, I can cook and use seasonings well for my vegetables, and most tend to come out of my garden.

Without a bit of animal protein I tend to feel run down.
 
2014-04-11 01:40:42 PM  

thamike: It's not as common in the wild as it is in internet forums, at least not as common as the JUS' A REGLAR COFFEE guy is at Starbucks.


When I lived in Texas it was very common. If people weren't eating an entire spit-roasted pig for every meal then SOMETHING WAS WRONG.
 
2014-04-11 01:44:03 PM  

Far Cough: If I were to similarly guess, I'd have to say it goes completely the other way, because so many meat eaters can and do safely ignore diet and variety, whereas veggies have made a concerted effort to pay attention. But my guess is as good or bad as yours....


See, the only direct comparison I made between vegetarians and non-vegetarians was my theory that people who aren't that into cooking and eating for pleasure are more likely to become vegetarians, for the sole reason that taking a moral stand against eating animals is easier for those people. I didn't claim that the diet of meat-eaters as a whole is any more diverse than the diet of vegetarians. I don't think it is. An awful lot of people eat the same 6 or 7 foods all the time. My observation was that I wouldn't expect vegetarians to be anti-vegetable, and yet quite a few of them are.
 
2014-04-11 01:44:16 PM  

Far Cough: thamike: Far Cough: Lacto-ovo vegetarianism IS THE STANDARD form of vegetarianism.

But, you felt the need to put the qualifier, right?  There's a reason for that.  Look, i'm done with this particular rabbit hole.  I don't care what people eat as long as it tastes good and it isn't my pet or a friend of mine.  I will never, however point at an egg and call it 100% vegetarian, just like I will never point at a vegetarian and say "HA HA b*tch, I've discovered your secret vault of eggs!"

The "reason for that" is that you don't seem to understand it, or want to understand it.  You're coming from an apparent position of ignorance and absolutely refusing to concede that truth.

You even made me resort to pulling up the definition from the oldest vegetarian group in the western world...

What is a vegetarian?
The Vegetarian Society defines a vegetarian as: "Someone who lives on a diet of grains, pulses, nuts, seeds, vegetables and fruits with, or without, the use of dairy products and eggs. A vegetarian does not eat any meat, poultry, game, fish, shellfish* or by-products of slaughter."

There are different types of vegetarian:
Lacto-ovo-vegetarians eat both dairy products and eggs; this is the most common type of vegetarian diet.

You're also got this thing about calling the egg itself "100% vegetarian" as if had to pass some kind of purity test or something.  The egg doesn't have a diet, and it's not yet a living thing.  It's a bog standard ordinary part of the vegetarian diet for people, no matter how much you like to say otherwise.

Oh, that's right, you're still walking away with your fingers in your ears now, 'cause eggs are still meat 'cause you say so.  Ciao.


The "oldest in the western world" being the key factor of that statement.  So a group of brits in the 1800s rubber stamped their beliefs onto something they picked up from another culture, so that makes it right?
 
2014-04-11 01:45:27 PM  

someonelse: Far Cough: If I were to similarly guess, I'd have to say it goes completely the other way, because so many meat eaters can and do safely ignore diet and variety, whereas veggies have made a concerted effort to pay attention. But my guess is as good or bad as yours....

See, the only direct comparison I made between vegetarians and non-vegetarians was my theory that people who aren't that into cooking and eating for pleasure are more likely to become vegetarians, for the sole reason that taking a moral stand against eating animals is easier for those people. I didn't claim that the diet of meat-eaters as a whole is any more diverse than the diet of vegetarians. I don't think it is. An awful lot of people eat the same 6 or 7 foods all the time. My observation was that I wouldn't expect vegetarians to be anti-vegetable, and yet quite a few of them are.


Okay... fight's all gone out of me at this point.  I should eat a steak.
 
2014-04-11 01:46:14 PM  
I could swear I saw him praising Indian veggie cuisine years ago, so I don't think this is new.
 
2014-04-11 01:47:52 PM  

theflatline: Far Cough: thamike: Far Cough: Lacto-ovo vegetarianism IS THE STANDARD form of vegetarianism.

But, you felt the need to put the qualifier, right?  There's a reason for that.  Look, i'm done with this particular rabbit hole.  I don't care what people eat as long as it tastes good and it isn't my pet or a friend of mine.  I will never, however point at an egg and call it 100% vegetarian, just like I will never point at a vegetarian and say "HA HA b*tch, I've discovered your secret vault of eggs!"

The "reason for that" is that you don't seem to understand it, or want to understand it.  You're coming from an apparent position of ignorance and absolutely refusing to concede that truth.

You even made me resort to pulling up the definition from the oldest vegetarian group in the western world...

What is a vegetarian?
The Vegetarian Society defines a vegetarian as: "Someone who lives on a diet of grains, pulses, nuts, seeds, vegetables and fruits with, or without, the use of dairy products and eggs. A vegetarian does not eat any meat, poultry, game, fish, shellfish* or by-products of slaughter."

There are different types of vegetarian:
Lacto-ovo-vegetarians eat both dairy products and eggs; this is the most common type of vegetarian diet.

You're also got this thing about calling the egg itself "100% vegetarian" as if had to pass some kind of purity test or something.  The egg doesn't have a diet, and it's not yet a living thing.  It's a bog standard ordinary part of the vegetarian diet for people, no matter how much you like to say otherwise.

Oh, that's right, you're still walking away with your fingers in your ears now, 'cause eggs are still meat 'cause you say so.  Ciao.

The "oldest in the western world" being the key factor of that statement.  So a group of brits in the 1800s rubber stamped their beliefs onto something they picked up from another culture, so that makes it right?


Sigh.  I didn't say it makes it "right", I said that's what the word vegetarian means in English.  Because that's what the word vegetarian means in English.

Because that's what the word vegetarian means in English.

And because that's what the word vegetarian means in English.
 
2014-04-11 01:49:17 PM  

SlagginOff: I could swear I saw him praising Indian veggie cuisine years ago, so I don't think this is new.


It isn't.  He definitely lost his sh*t about the astounding variety of delicious chick pea recipes during No Reservations.
 
2014-04-11 01:53:31 PM  
South and east Asian cuisines know how to cook their vegetables. Too bad that's not the case in the west.
 
2014-04-11 01:54:18 PM  

Far Cough: And because that's what the word vegetarian means in English.


In English, is there a distinction between vegetarian and lacto-ovo vegetarian?  You seem to think so.  So does everybody else, including lacto-ovo vegetarians and vegetarians.

I think the problem here is that you assume I place a negative connotation on "vegetarian,"  which I don't.  My vegetarian friends, for the most part eat eggs.  Some of them don't.  Neither argues with one another about eggs being "100% vegetarian" (my repeated use of that term is based on somebody else's post upthread).  I'm being a semantic asshole, if that makes you feel better, but I was fairly clear about my intent in that regard, so your flabbergasm is a bit unwarranted.
 
2014-04-11 01:58:27 PM  

Fallout Boy: South and east Asian cuisines know how to cook their vegetables. Too bad that's not the case in the west.


I blame mass supermarket agriculture.  Sure you can find great things at a supermarket, but honestly, nothing beats a local farm.    The potatoes, watermelons, and (yes) eggs I've eaten from a neighbor's backyard in Greece were bursting with flavor.  Shopping at Safeway can get langoleirish.
 
2014-04-11 02:04:03 PM  

thamike: Fallout Boy: South and east Asian cuisines know how to cook their vegetables. Too bad that's not the case in the west.

I blame mass supermarket agriculture.  Sure you can find great things at a supermarket, but honestly, nothing beats a local farm.    The potatoes, watermelons, and (yes) eggs I've eaten from a neighbor's backyard in Greece were bursting with flavor.  Shopping at Safeway can get langoleirish.


I live in Florida and currently have watermelons, korean cucumbers, three types of green beans, creole tomatoes, cabbage, two types of lettuce, carrots, habeneros, jalepenis, pasadillos, tomatillos, cantaloup, and okra all going like gang busters.

I get fresh eggs for free from a coworker because I gave her a 15 seedlings from my garden.  And I live in the middle of town.

i635.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-11 02:05:36 PM  

thamike: Far Cough: And because that's what the word vegetarian means in English.

In English, is there a distinction between vegetarian and lacto-ovo vegetarian?  You seem to think so.  So does everybody else, including lacto-ovo vegetarians and vegetarians.

I think the problem here is that you assume I place a negative connotation on "vegetarian,"  which I don't.  My vegetarian friends, for the most part eat eggs.  Some of them don't.  Neither argues with one another about eggs being "100% vegetarian" (my repeated use of that term is based on somebody else's post upthread).  I'm being a semantic asshole, if that makes you feel better, but I was fairly clear about my intent in that regard, so your flabbergasm is a bit unwarranted.


You took the fingers out.  Hi!  To answer your question, NO, there's no distinction between vegetarian and lacto-ovo vegetarian.  That was my entire point, that lacto-ovo was the general, default, bog standard state of vegetarianism.  I haven't wavered from this.  When you say "lacto-ovo vegetarians and vegetarians" you're not making a distinction at all.  How the heck do YOU distinguish between those two terms?  The latter is either equal to the former, or it is used as an umbrella term that STILL includes the former among several other groups.  It's a little like calling a standard 4-door sedan a "car".

Obviously we're BOTH being semantic assholes here; it's just that I'm right.  :)
 
2014-04-11 02:06:38 PM  

theflatline: I live in Florida and currently have watermelons, korean cucumbers, three types of green beans, creole tomatoes, cabbage, two types of lettuce, carrots, habeneros, jalepenis, pasadillos, tomatillos, cantaloup, and okra all going like gang busters.

I get fresh eggs for free from a coworker because I gave her a 15 seedlings from my garden.  And I live in the middle of town.


It's happening in NYC, too.  I don't give a damn if the guy wears wool caps in hot weather and plows is roof, farm fresh is the best.
 
2014-04-11 02:09:16 PM  
We had some people in a recent thread claiming that "farm fresh eggs" and organic eggs wouldn't pass a double blind test against ordinary factory farmed eggs, or something like that.  I have no idea how true that is.  I don't much like eggs.  :)
 
2014-04-11 02:10:56 PM  

Far Cough: NO, there's no distinction between vegetarian and lacto-ovo vegetarian.


That would be a distinction.  The distinction is right there. You typed the distinction.


showbizgeek.com

"You don't like jam, you've never liked jam, you HATE jam."
 
2014-04-11 02:14:13 PM  

thamike: Far Cough: NO, there's no distinction between vegetarian and lacto-ovo vegetarian.

That would be a distinction. The distinction is right there. You typed the distinction.


Oh for fark's sake, seriously?  That's what you've got?

There's a distinction between "water" and "wet water".   Gotcha.  'Cause one has more words.  Please.
 
2014-04-11 02:14:54 PM  
Okay, people, just get a goddamed room so we can get the thread back.
 
2014-04-11 02:17:07 PM  

theorellior: Okay, people, just get a goddamed room so we can get the thread back.


Okay cool.  It's pretty clear the Punjabi cuisine Bourdain likes so much includes TONS of dairy.  Any idea how much egg is included?
 
2014-04-11 02:18:23 PM  

theorellior: Okay, people, just get a goddamed room so we can get the thread back.


He will not give you the thread back.
 
2014-04-11 02:21:28 PM  

Fallout Boy: South and east Asian cuisines know how to cook their vegetables. Too bad that's not the case in the west.


Ghee, Ghee, and some more Ghee for India.   Add lots of spices like mustard, cardamom, Peppers, fenugreek, and the so on.      Southern cooking is full of great vegetable dishes too.    Of course, down here, we hardly ever do vegan.   Always some pork added for flavor.   Leah Chase even adds it to her Gumbo Z'Herbes.   Personally, I have no issue with the killing of animals for food.   Some evidence exists that the best and most ecologically sound agricultural process is free roaming grazing animals used for dairy and meat.   Self fertilizing process that requires minimal or no irrigation or cultivation of the soil with carbon emitting equipment.

/No one in their right mind ever expects to wake up and smell the kale
//Tony would take issue with a meat and potatoes diet every bit as much as Vegan.
 
2014-04-11 02:21:43 PM  

thamike: Far Cough: NO, there's no distinction between vegetarian and lacto-ovo vegetarian.

That would be a distinction.  The distinction is right there. You typed the distinction.


[showbizgeek.com image 487x378]

"You don't like jam, you've never liked jam, you HATE jam."


Did you just throw a googly?
 
2014-04-11 02:34:13 PM  

thamike: Shopping at Safeway can get langoleirish.


So you've turned one of the worst movies in the world into one of the worst adjectives in the world?

And it sickens me that I know exactly what it means.

/At least the blind chick was hot.
 
2014-04-11 02:53:32 PM  
Dear Vegetarians,

Nobody give a rip about your food obsession. Please get over yourselves so we can still be friends.

Thanks,
Everyone you know.
 
2014-04-11 03:11:26 PM  

thamike: Superjew: Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.

So are eggs and vegetables.  I wouldn't call it cheating if there's no sociopolitical statement being made by self-identifying as a vegetarian, but you'd have to be f*cking high to think eggs are "100% vegetarian."


Then why are they called "hen fruit", smart guy?
 
2014-04-11 03:15:04 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Dear Vegetarians,

Nobody give a rip about your food obsession. Please get over yourselves so we can still be friends.

Thanks,
Everyone you know.


Vegetarians I can usually handle.  What really annoys me are people that are incapable of ordering off the menu.  I used to work with a woman who, no matter where you went, would describe to the waitress what she wanted custom built for her meal.  God that was annoying.
 
2014-04-11 03:28:12 PM  

thamike: Far Cough: He's confusing vegan with vegetarian, I guess, or claiming that any animal protein violates vegetarianism.  (Though he actually called eggs "meat" above!)

I'm not confusing anything with anything, as I've exhaustively pointed out.  You're the one who said "words mean things" in regards to people whose protein choice is fish.   You can call yourself a vegetarian and eat eggs all you want, i don't give a sh*t.

You just can't call an egg "100% vegetarian" and be correct.  That's usually why vegetarians who do eat eggs say things like, "I'm a vegetarian, but I do eat eggs."  Qualifiers mean things.


They usually say "I'm a vegetarian but I eat eggs" because most folks wouldn't know the term "lacto-ovo vegetarian".
 
2014-04-11 04:03:35 PM  
Bourdain is a dick about vegetarians, not vegetarian food. Also, when you go to a region where religion dictates a vegetarian diet you will most likely find that the vegetarian food is better than elsewhere.
This is not a new story, or any new revelation by Bourdain. His dickishness toward vegetarians is a response to the dickishness of vegetarians toward non-vegetarians.
 
2014-04-11 04:37:07 PM  

thamike: I tried that un-chicken stuff at Trader Joe's the other day, and I gotta admit, I was strangely impressed.


Until recently I didn't realize that the general tsos chicken at Whole Foods was actually vegan. That's some tasty shiat. I don't care if it's meat or not so long as it's tasty.
 
2014-04-11 05:14:04 PM  
This is a pretty dumb thing to have such a long argument about.
 
2014-04-11 05:19:13 PM  
Hey Mr. Bourdian you should know this: North Americans in general don't have a f*cking clue how to cook, make nutritious meals or feed themselves properly.

   You need to get protein, complex carbohydrates, simple sugars, vitamins and minerals, and stay hydrated in relation to your level of physical activity. You can accomplish this with a vegan, L-O vegetarian or meat based diet.

  Off to have a veggie burger with bacon.....
 
2014-04-11 05:48:44 PM  

New Age Redneck: Hey Mr. Bourdian you should know this: North Americans in general don't have a f*cking clue how to cook, make nutritious meals or feed themselves properly.

   You need to get protein, complex carbohydrates, simple sugars, vitamins and minerals, and stay hydrated in relation to your level of physical activity. You can accomplish this with a vegan, L-O vegetarian or meat based diet.

  Off to have a veggie burger with bacon.....


I grew up in South Louisiana and I can outcook any Canadian.  There is good food in North America sorry you never had it.
 
2014-04-11 05:50:22 PM  

moothemagiccow: Can we agree there's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian until you invite them to a restaurant? Individually customized diets make for shiatty lunch options.



CSB:

My worst double date was at a vegetarian restaurant.  My date's friend was a vegetarian, but the rest of us were not....so we HAD to go to a vegetarian restaurant.  The food was decent, but they didn't have any alcohol....just over-priced tea.

Oh, and her friend was a total chubette.
 
2014-04-11 05:54:26 PM  

theflatline: New Age Redneck: Hey Mr. Bourdian you should know this: North Americans in general don't have a f*cking clue how to cook, make nutritious meals or feed themselves properly.

   You need to get protein, complex carbohydrates, simple sugars, vitamins and minerals, and stay hydrated in relation to your level of physical activity. You can accomplish this with a vegan, L-O vegetarian or meat based diet.

  Off to have a veggie burger with bacon.....

I grew up in South Louisiana and I can outcook any Canadian.  There is good food in North America sorry you never had it.


He forgets that all the good Canadian cooks came to Louisiana mid 18th century.
 
2014-04-11 05:55:33 PM  

The_Sponge: moothemagiccow: Can we agree there's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian until you invite them to a restaurant? Individually customized diets make for shiatty lunch options.


CSB:

My worst double date was at a vegetarian restaurant.  My date's friend was a vegetarian, but the rest of us were not....so we HAD to go to a vegetarian restaurant.  The food was decent, but they didn't have any alcohol....just over-priced tea.

Oh, and her friend was a total chubette.


Was the waiter's name Shiloh?

veggiefitness.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-11 05:56:14 PM  
Jeez, I was a vegetarian for around 5 years because I developed an oversensitivity to the smell of meat (too much like cadaver lab and rotting carcass). I was very healthy and I know how to cook. Lots of whole grains, dairy, eggs, lentils, eggs, good oils, etc. Hell, I only bake with actual butter. Had a healthy pregnancy during that time, with a healthy baby. Large baby. One of my favourite things was to just make a roux with whole milk and whole wheat flour with some fried onions and a lot of chickpeas over couscous.

The smell and taste sensitivity wore off quite a bit but I still won't eat hamburger meat that smells like an old dead body lying in the hot sun to me, no matter how much someone else swears they can't smell it's off.

The number of people I had assume I had quit eating meat because of I was a flakey sensitive bleeding heart was rather annoying at the time, considering the amount of gore and dead things I had to deal with growing up on a farm. Pulling rotten stillborn lambs out of ewes and drowning rats crippled by the traps and such was out of their sphere of experience. "Ooh, you feel bad for the widdle aminals?" "No, it smells like a dissection and shut up, you're fat."
 
2014-04-11 06:03:09 PM  

Uncontrolled_Jibe: theflatline: New Age Redneck: Hey Mr. Bourdian you should know this: North Americans in general don't have a f*cking clue how to cook, make nutritious meals or feed themselves properly.

   You need to get protein, complex carbohydrates, simple sugars, vitamins and minerals, and stay hydrated in relation to your level of physical activity. You can accomplish this with a vegan, L-O vegetarian or meat based diet.

  Off to have a veggie burger with bacon.....

I grew up in South Louisiana and I can outcook any Canadian.  There is good food in North America sorry you never had it.

He forgets that all the good Canadian cooks came to Louisiana mid 18th century.


But most forget that much of the cuisine in south Louisiana is italian and spanish,  much more than the French influence.
 
2014-04-11 06:18:25 PM  

mongbiohazard: thamike: I tried that un-chicken stuff at Trader Joe's the other day, and I gotta admit, I was strangely impressed.

Until recently I didn't realize that the general tsos chicken at Whole Foods was actually vegan. That's some tasty shiat. I don't care if it's meat or not so long as it's tasty.


Seriously, that stuff might just save the planet.  And Charlton Heston's out of the way, so we can go wild with it.
 
2014-04-11 07:39:53 PM  

theflatline: Uncontrolled_Jibe: theflatline: New Age Redneck: Hey Mr. Bourdian you should know this: North Americans in general don't have a f*cking clue how to cook, make nutritious meals or feed themselves properly.

   You need to get protein, complex carbohydrates, simple sugars, vitamins and minerals, and stay hydrated in relation to your level of physical activity. You can accomplish this with a vegan, L-O vegetarian or meat based diet.

  Off to have a veggie burger with bacon.....

I grew up in South Louisiana and I can outcook any Canadian.  There is good food in North America sorry you never had it.

He forgets that all the good Canadian cooks came to Louisiana mid 18th century.

But most forget that much of the cuisine in south Louisiana is italian and spanish,  much more than the French influence.


Spanish, yes, Italian, not so much
 
2014-04-11 07:48:46 PM  
I won't touch Indian food with a 10 foot pole.

Worked one wedding where we stupidly allowed them to cook in our commercial kitchen.

I watched as two numbnuts not only dropped every single cooler of food, but they dumped out every single cooler of food.  Scraped it off the dirty concrete and laughingly threw it right back into the cooler.  Everything reeked of too much cinnamon and cardamom.  When the bride's mother offered to fix me a plate, I wisely declined.  Half-rotten chicken and everything else was drowned in putrid marinades.  That was 10+ years ago, and we have never allowed people to bring in their own food again.  It was a miracle that we didn't get caught with a random violation.  Never again.  I've never eaten Indian food since.  My stomach still turns.

Thai curry?  Sure, hell yeah.  Indian?  I'll go throw up over there, no thanks.
 
2014-04-11 07:49:24 PM  
Indian food is great. Best pure vege stuff on the planet. But there are lots of meatless dishes in every culture - is just that most other places don't refer to them as vegetarian.
 
2014-04-11 07:49:36 PM  

chitownmike: theflatline: Uncontrolled_Jibe: theflatline: New Age Redneck: Hey Mr. Bourdian you should know this: North Americans in general don't have a f*cking clue how to cook, make nutritious meals or feed themselves properly.

   You need to get protein, complex carbohydrates, simple sugars, vitamins and minerals, and stay hydrated in relation to your level of physical activity. You can accomplish this with a vegan, L-O vegetarian or meat based diet.

  Off to have a veggie burger with bacon.....

I grew up in South Louisiana and I can outcook any Canadian.  There is good food in North America sorry you never had it.

He forgets that all the good Canadian cooks came to Louisiana mid 18th century.

But most forget that much of the cuisine in south Louisiana is italian and spanish,  much more than the French influence.

Spanish, yes, Italian, not so much


Sorry you do not know your Louisiana history...  Or American history for that matter.

You might want to read this.

http://ccet.louisiana.edu/tourism/cultural/The_People/italian-americ an .html

Or this.

http://www.neworleansonline.com/neworleans/multicultural/multicultur al history/italian.html

My Sicilian family was there forever, and still is.

Plus one of the earliest recording Mafia families was in New Orleans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_crime_family

Sorry, but New York, Rhode Island, and Chicago does not have the lock on Italians... Which is why the Saia truck line, a Chicago family, moved the business to new orleans.
 
2014-04-11 07:56:35 PM  

theflatline: chitownmike: theflatline: Uncontrolled_Jibe: theflatline: New Age Redneck: Hey Mr. Bourdian you should know this: North Americans in general don't have a f*cking clue how to cook, make nutritious meals or feed themselves properly.

   You need to get protein, complex carbohydrates, simple sugars, vitamins and minerals, and stay hydrated in relation to your level of physical activity. You can accomplish this with a vegan, L-O vegetarian or meat based diet.

  Off to have a veggie burger with bacon.....

I grew up in South Louisiana and I can outcook any Canadian.  There is good food in North America sorry you never had it.

He forgets that all the good Canadian cooks came to Louisiana mid 18th century.

But most forget that much of the cuisine in south Louisiana is italian and spanish,  much more than the French influence.

Spanish, yes, Italian, not so much

Sorry you do not know your Louisiana history...  Or American history for that matter.

You might want to read this.

http://ccet.louisiana.edu/tourism/cultural/The_People/italian-americ an .html

Or this.

http://www.neworleansonline.com/neworleans/multicultural/multicultur al history/italian.html

My Sicilian family was there forever, and still is.

Plus one of the earliest recording Mafia families was in New Orleans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_crime_family

Sorry, but New York, Rhode Island, and Chicago does not have the lock on Italians... Which is why the Saia truck line, a Chicago family, moved the business to new orleans.


We were talking about food, the French and Spanish influences, along with Portuguese are much more apparent than the italian
 
2014-04-11 08:15:12 PM  

chitownmike: theflatline: chitownmike: theflatline: Uncontrolled_Jibe: theflatline: New Age Redneck: Hey Mr. Bourdian you should know this: North Americans in general don't have a f*cking clue how to cook, make nutritious meals or feed themselves properly.

   You need to get protein, complex carbohydrates, simple sugars, vitamins and minerals, and stay hydrated in relation to your level of physical activity. You can accomplish this with a vegan, L-O vegetarian or meat based diet.

  Off to have a veggie burger with bacon.....

I grew up in South Louisiana and I can outcook any Canadian.  There is good food in North America sorry you never had it.

He forgets that all the good Canadian cooks came to Louisiana mid 18th century.

But most forget that much of the cuisine in south Louisiana is italian and spanish,  much more than the French influence.

Spanish, yes, Italian, not so much

Sorry you do not know your Louisiana history...  Or American history for that matter.

You might want to read this.

http://ccet.louisiana.edu/tourism/cultural/The_People/italian-americ an .html

Or this.

http://www.neworleansonline.com/neworleans/multicultural/multicultur al history/italian.html

My Sicilian family was there forever, and still is.

Plus one of the earliest recording Mafia families was in New Orleans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_crime_family

Sorry, but New York, Rhode Island, and Chicago does not have the lock on Italians... Which is why the Saia truck line, a Chicago family, moved the business to new orleans.

We were talking about food, the French and Spanish influences, along with Portuguese are much more apparent than the italian


You realize that Louisiana had one of the largest influx of Sicilians in the US.  The warehouse district in new orleans was a sicilian artichoke farm.

You really have no idea about the italian influence in louisiana do you. Especially in the food.

There was a tiny portion of Portuguese people in Louisiana, but not enough to make a drop in the bucket.

You might want to read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian-American_neighborhoods# Lo uisiana

New Orleans.   was the first site of immigration of Italians and into America in the 19th century, before was a unified nation-state. This was before and Baltimore became the preferred destinations for Italian immigrants.

As someone of Sicilian and Spanish ancestry, the itlalian influence is much more apparent than the spanish...
 
2014-04-11 08:22:46 PM  

MylesHeartVodak: Worked one wedding where we stupidly allowed them to cook in our commercial kitchen.


i once saw a cook drop a hamburger patty, make a joke about floor spice, and try to serve it

i never ate food again
 
2014-04-11 08:31:37 PM  

ChubbyTiger: Indian food is great. Best pure vege stuff on the planet. But there are lots of meatless dishes in every culture - is just that most other places don't refer to them as vegetarian.


like grits?
 
2014-04-11 09:01:11 PM  

DrunkWithImpotence: My brother in law married a vegetarian.  Not a pure vegan, but she won't eat anything that involves a dead animal.  No meat, no fish, and I doubt she'd eat anything with red dye that comes from those beetles they crush up.  A few months ago I saw the first picture I'd seen of them in a few years and their health was clearly in the dumper.  Pale, astounding weight gains, it was sad to see.  Then I found out that neither of them really know how to cook.  They are basically living on starch (pasta, bread, etc), along with some vegetables and a bit of cheese.  That's not remotely a healthy diet.  If I thought it would do any good I'd buy them an Indian cookbook in a heartbeat. India has had a huge vegetarian population for generations and they have learned how to make non-meat dishes that not only keep you alive, but are also very healthy, AND they taste farking good.  As has been mentioned upthread by now I'm sure, Bourdain doesn't have an issue with veg per se,it's the people who do it for stupid reasons and who don't know how to do it right.


FFS, they don't even need a cookbook. Just go to a Indian grocery and buy them boxes of packets of awesome and a 10 pound bag of brown rice. Yeah home cooked is waaay better, but 2/$3 palak paneer with every single ingredient recognizable? Hell yes.
 
2014-04-11 09:08:32 PM  

stonelotus: ChubbyTiger: Indian food is great. Best pure vege stuff on the planet. But there are lots of meatless dishes in every culture - is just that most other places don't refer to them as vegetarian.

like grits?


Like Greek. My boss is veggie and studied Greek in college. Went over there and everyone told her she'd starve... Then they'd serve spinach pie and grape leaves or whatever.
 
2014-04-12 12:30:20 AM  

thamike: Superjew: Eggs and dairy are 100% vegetarian.  No "cheating" at all.

Vegetarian and vegan are two different things.

So are eggs and vegetables.  I wouldn't call it cheating if there's no sociopolitical statement being made by self-identifying as a vegetarian, but you'd have to be f*cking high to think eggs are "100% vegetarian."


Eggs are more of an abortion debate.

I've been vegetarian for twenty years, but I eat eggs.
 
2014-04-12 12:39:34 AM  

thamike: mongbiohazard: thamike: I tried that un-chicken stuff at Trader Joe's the other day, and I gotta admit, I was strangely impressed.

Until recently I didn't realize that the general tsos chicken at Whole Foods was actually vegan. That's some tasty shiat. I don't care if it's meat or not so long as it's tasty.

Seriously, that stuff might just save the planet.  And Charlton Heston's out of the way, so we can go wild with it.


yep
 
2014-04-12 02:22:52 AM  

Transpogue: I gotta say, you need to hang around some vegetarians and vegans who have access to decent farmer's markets and know how to cook.

I agree that some people just like food more than others and are more inclined to cook good food, but I've found that trait equally shared between omnis and veggie folk.


The knowing how to cook and giving a shiat about what stuff tastes like it monumental.  In October of 2013, my FIL was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer (thank goodness he is still here) but my BIL decided to go mostly vegan, which is fine.  But his food tastes like shiat.  He decided to forego salt, oil, and mostly anything that has flavor.

My wife and I recently decided that smoothies as a breakfast food aren't a bad idea.  I do a cup of greek yogurt (not vegan, I know), a cup of orange juice, a banana, strawberries, blueberries, kale (curly and flat), spinach, and beet greens.  It tastes like the smoothies I used to make, only I put greens in them now.  My wife is allergic to whey, so I do water, banana, mixed berries, strawberries, soy protein, and greens for her.  Both of our smoothies taste good.  When my wife was talking to them about her brother, his Weeners was "I don't care about how they taste anymore".  I just can't imagine living a life where I don't care how something tastes.  If I am going to drink something every morning, I better at least enjoy it.

An even better example is brown rice.  I'll admit the first time that my wife (then my girlfriend) made it, it was awful.  We almost gave up on it, then I saw a Good Eats where Alton made it with broth and a pat of butter (or if you are a veggie, margarine) and said "45 minutes to cook it".  We made it like that, and I love brown rice now.  My brother in law does it with water and nothing else and probably undercooks it (like most folks do).  Again, can't imagine eating something that doesn't taste good.

My wife is also Catholic, so we go veggie on Fridays during lent and have made some good things.  Grilled veggie tacos (actually got that idea from Disneyland of all places) and I make a delicious marinara (adapted from "Essentials of Italian Cooking") that is flavorful without any meat.

There are wonderful veggie dishes out there.  The problem is that there are a whole bunch of veggies that think that food has to taste like crap for it to be healthy.
 
2014-04-12 07:34:32 AM  

theflatline: I get fresh eggs for free from a coworker because I gave her a 15 seedlings from my garden.


OH FARK YOU!


/buys them from the family down the road, they have a farm.
//only 15 seedlings? your coworker has a jones for you.
 
2014-04-12 07:39:06 AM  

theflatline: You realize that Louisiana had one of the largest influx of Sicilians in the US. The warehouse district in new orleans was a sicilian artichoke farm.

You really have no idea about the italian influence in louisiana do you. Especially in the food.


First you say Sicilian, then you say Italian.  WHICH ONE, man?!
 

/neighbor is from louisiana and is working the ropes to get his italian citizenship
//makes pasta sauce with a CUP of sugar (eech)
 
2014-04-12 09:36:25 AM  

mekkab: theflatline: You realize that Louisiana had one of the largest influx of Sicilians in the US. The warehouse district in new orleans was a sicilian artichoke farm.

You really have no idea about the italian influence in louisiana do you. Especially in the food.

First you say Sicilian, then you say Italian.  WHICH ONE, man?!


/neighbor is from louisiana and is working the ropes to get his italian citizenship
//makes pasta sauce with a CUP of sugar (eech)


Anyone who makes pasta sauce with ANY sugar is committing a crime against good cooking.  Get your pan, put it on medium heat, add enough oil to cover the bottom of the whole pan, let the oil heat until it's shimmery.  Put minced garlic or garlic powder in the middle of the pan and let it toast for a moment, then add tomato paste.  You're now going to let the paste heat in that pan for 30 minutes or more, stirring fairly often because you do not want it to burn.  Basically, you're carmelizing the tomato paste.  Once it's carmelized (it will be *very* dark red and won't 'follow' the spoon when you stir) add as much water as you did tomato paste, sprinkle in some dried basil flakes (or finely chopped fresh basil if you want) and salt to taste.  If you do it right, it will be the best damn rich tomato sauce you've ever had in your life, won't be too acidic thanks to the carmelization, and you didn't have to add any sugars that weren't already in the tomato paste.  Plus it even counts as vegan.
 
2014-04-12 11:28:49 AM  

Teufelaffe: mekkab: theflatline: You realize that Louisiana had one of the largest influx of Sicilians in the US. The warehouse district in new orleans was a sicilian artichoke farm.

You really have no idea about the italian influence in louisiana do you. Especially in the food.

First you say Sicilian, then you say Italian.  WHICH ONE, man?!


/neighbor is from louisiana and is working the ropes to get his italian citizenship
//makes pasta sauce with a CUP of sugar (eech)

Anyone who makes pasta sauce with ANY sugar is committing a crime against good cooking.  Get your pan, put it on medium heat, add enough oil to cover the bottom of the whole pan, let the oil heat until it's shimmery.  Put minced garlic or garlic powder in the middle of the pan and let it toast for a moment, then add tomato paste.  You're now going to let the paste heat in that pan for 30 minutes or more, stirring fairly often because you do not want it to burn.  Basically, you're carmelizing the tomato paste.  Once it's carmelized (it will be *very* dark red and won't 'follow' the spoon when you stir) add as much water as you did tomato paste, sprinkle in some dried basil flakes (or finely chopped fresh basil if you want) and salt to taste.  If you do it right, it will be the best damn rich tomato sauce you've ever had in your life, won't be too acidic thanks to the carmelization, and you didn't have to add any sugars that weren't already in the tomato paste.  Plus it even counts as vegan.


No tomatoes, just paste? And browned to death? And DRIED herb? And then you just water it down?

Sorry that sounds awful. Maybe if you added some good canned tomatoes to simmer on that base.
 
2014-04-12 12:11:58 PM  

Far Cough: Teufelaffe: mekkab: theflatline: You realize that Louisiana had one of the largest influx of Sicilians in the US. The warehouse district in new orleans was a sicilian artichoke farm.

You really have no idea about the italian influence in louisiana do you. Especially in the food.

First you say Sicilian, then you say Italian.  WHICH ONE, man?!


/neighbor is from louisiana and is working the ropes to get his italian citizenship
//makes pasta sauce with a CUP of sugar (eech)

Anyone who makes pasta sauce with ANY sugar is committing a crime against good cooking.  Get your pan, put it on medium heat, add enough oil to cover the bottom of the whole pan, let the oil heat until it's shimmery.  Put minced garlic or garlic powder in the middle of the pan and let it toast for a moment, then add tomato paste.  You're now going to let the paste heat in that pan for 30 minutes or more, stirring fairly often because you do not want it to burn.  Basically, you're carmelizing the tomato paste.  Once it's carmelized (it will be *very* dark red and won't 'follow' the spoon when you stir) add as much water as you did tomato paste, sprinkle in some dried basil flakes (or finely chopped fresh basil if you want) and salt to taste.  If you do it right, it will be the best damn rich tomato sauce you've ever had in your life, won't be too acidic thanks to the carmelization, and you didn't have to add any sugars that weren't already in the tomato paste.  Plus it even counts as vegan.

No tomatoes, just paste? And browned to death? And DRIED herb? And then you just water it down?

Sorry that sounds awful. Maybe if you added some good canned tomatoes to simmer on that base.


Try it.  Seriously, it's a really tasty sauce.  And you're "browning it to death" the same way caramelizing anything is "browning it to death."  Starting with tomatoes rather than paste doesn't end up tasting as good; you're not making a light marinara here.  The end result will be rich and almost taste like it's got meat in it.  As for dried vs. fresh herbs, I did mention using fresh if you want.

Go on, give it a shot.  Paste is like $0.69 a can and you probably already have the other ingredients.  It's a bit time consuming because you can't let it sit and simmer, but it really is good.
 
2014-04-12 12:19:40 PM  
Okay, thanks for the encouragement. I'll try but it's gonna be hard staying away from these Nina tomatoes; they make everything better. :)
 
2014-04-12 12:37:02 PM  

Far Cough: Okay, thanks for the encouragement. I'll try but it's gonna be hard staying away from these Nina tomatoes; they make everything better. :)


If you don't like it, you can blame it on me only being half Sicilian.  ;)
 
2014-04-12 12:40:05 PM  
D'oh, just realized I had the temp wrong.  Should be medium-high.  Medium is usually too low to caramelize.
 
2014-04-12 01:13:34 PM  

Teufelaffe: Anyone who makes pasta sauce with ANY sugar is committing a crime against good cooking.


THANK you.

Teufelaffe: Get your pan, put it on medium heat, add enough oil to cover the bottom of the whole pan, let the oil heat until it's shimmery.  Put minced garlic or garlic powder in the middle of the pan and let it toast for a moment, then add tomato paste.  You're now going to let the paste heat in that pan for....(the rest)

www.personal.psu.edu

 
2014-04-12 02:21:20 PM  
See how poetic?

After all that, thamike and I finally on the same page. :)
 
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