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(Talking Points Memo)   Senator defends the Koch brothers: "They're not breaking the law." Did I mention he's also a Democrat?   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 176
    More: Fail, Democrats, Koch Brothers, Joe Manchin, Brian Kilmeade  
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937 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Apr 2014 at 11:58 AM (14 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-11 01:38:17 PM

Deftoons: qorkfiend: Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.

OpenSecrets.org only tracks money donated directly to candidates. Dark money, on the other hand, is untracked and tells a wildly different story re: relative spending. I find it interesting that your comment only focuses on the former, and completely ignores the latter.

Is it not what the directive is of the left - that donating money to candidates is creating a plutocracy?

And is the left somehow devoid of said dark money too?  I don't see how anything you said lessens my point at all.


You know, you could just say you don't quite comprehend what the objection here is. No one would think any less of you.
 
2014-04-11 01:38:40 PM

colon_pow: those are positions that are held by half the country


So if half the country jumped off a bridge....
 
2014-04-11 01:41:38 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Well I see stopping the single payer as a plus


You must own stock in health insurance companies.

With Citizens United, these jokers get a lot more free speech than the rest of us.  They bribe Congress to get their self serving laws passed.  Now if you and I were able to do that, I wouldn't be so sore about it.  As things are, we have a government of the corporations, run by the corporations, for the benefit of the corporations.

They don't need anyone defending them.
 
2014-04-11 01:42:26 PM

Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.


bullshiat. lets not go back 25 years and fluff the numbers with cherry picked data. (also remember these "liberal" groups are unions representing millions of workers. not a handful of billionaires)
lets look at the last election and the trend that is going on.

for example
SEIU spent 70 million in 2012 they represent 2.1 million workers . that means that each worker has about "34 bucks worth of free speech"

Sheldon Adelson spent 42 million
Kochs spent upwards of 60 million
Meg Whitman spent 144 million
 
2014-04-11 01:42:26 PM
"They're not breaking the law"

Well, he's not wrong.
 
2014-04-11 01:42:41 PM
 
2014-04-11 01:43:48 PM

Headso: It's not illegal to buy elected officials but it should be.


Money = speech so say the SCOTUS
 
2014-04-11 01:44:32 PM

Kornchex: Go on....


single payer bad, stopping bad is good.

Kornchex: Yeah. Making billions of raping the environment is easily offset by token donations to universities that say it's bad. Six / Half Dozen right?


Raping the environment?
Fact:
"Koch employees have earned well over 700 awards for environmental, health and safety excellence since 2009, many of them from the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Safety and Health Administration. EPA officials have commended us for our "commitment to a cleaner environment" and called us "a model for other companies." "

Kornchex: Yeah. Fark the people who make them billions.


They're paying them arn't they? Yeah, providing jobs, that's a big fark you isn't it.

Kornchex: Giving money to crazies who deny science at every farking turn is the definition of wicked. They saw that when the teabaggers shut down the government last year. I was hoping they would have learned from their mistakes, but they clearly have not.


Questioning science is evil. ah yeah, that's what you're suppose to do. That is in fact what scientists do. Questioning is a good thing. You can call it denying if you wish I call it questioning. And there are some good questions out there.

Kornchex: Tell that to the millions living below the poverty line that are being screwed by the politicians that the Koch Bro's have bought. Go read the Ryan budget FFS.


One, the Kochs didn't buy anyone. Like the link I provide shows they arn't in the top 50. They are players but evil darklords they are not. Second, I read the Ryan budget and no where in there did he state that his goal was to starve poor people. Cut's in the growth of welfare programs do not starve people. And god forbid this plan cause some job growth and we can get more people to work.
 
2014-04-11 01:45:34 PM
Or instead of complaining, you could go make a billion dollars of your own and contribute to what you believe in.
 
2014-04-11 01:45:52 PM
"Don't hate the player, hate the game." ~RAND PAUL
 
2014-04-11 01:46:22 PM

Deftoons: Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas


And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

I already know the answer to that.
 
2014-04-11 01:47:18 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Kornchex: Go on....

single payer bad, stopping bad is good.

Kornchex: Yeah. Making billions of raping the environment is easily offset by token donations to universities that say it's bad. Six / Half Dozen right?

Raping the environment?
Fact:
"Koch employees have earned well over 700 awards for environmental, health and safety excellence since 2009, many of them from the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Safety and Health Administration. EPA officials have commended us for our "commitment to a cleaner environment" and called us "a model for other companies." "

Kornchex: Yeah. Fark the people who make them billions.

They're paying them arn't they? Yeah, providing jobs, that's a big fark you isn't it.

Kornchex: Giving money to crazies who deny science at every farking turn is the definition of wicked. They saw that when the teabaggers shut down the government last year. I was hoping they would have learned from their mistakes, but they clearly have not.

Questioning science is evil. ah yeah, that's what you're suppose to do. That is in fact what scientists do. Questioning is a good thing. You can call it denying if you wish I call it questioning. And there are some good questions out there.

Kornchex: Tell that to the millions living below the poverty line that are being screwed by the politicians that the Koch Bro's have bought. Go read the Ryan budget FFS.

One, the Kochs didn't buy anyone. Like the link I provide shows they arn't in the top 50. They are players but evil darklords they are not. Second, I read the Ryan budget and no where in there did he state that his goal was to starve poor people. Cut's in the growth of welfare programs do not starve people. And god forbid this plan cause some job growth and we can get more people to work.


So which Koch brother are you?  Or are you just their PR guy?
 
2014-04-11 01:47:40 PM

Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.


Who do they think they are? Unions?
 
2014-04-11 01:49:08 PM

neversubmit: Saiga410: plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs not give the money to me.

FIXED


Potato, potahto
 
2014-04-11 01:49:34 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Like the link I provide shows they arn't in the top 50.


25 years ago Obama got zero dollars from unions or bankers.

he wasn't in the top gazillion in fundraising
 
2014-04-11 01:50:49 PM
And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

Most rich people are that way because they worked hard and generally continue to do so.  A 'working' poor man somehow has better ideas about anything than a 'working' rich man?  I'd rather go with the guy who worked hard his life to be rich instead of the guy who never bothered to try and get out of his current situation and believes he needs to change the world for opportunity than himself.
 
2014-04-11 01:51:07 PM

Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?


what have you got against workers having a say in govt?
 
2014-04-11 01:52:33 PM

Gnaglor: And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

Most rich people are that way because they worked hard and generally continue to do so.  A 'working' poor man somehow has better ideas about anything than a 'working' rich man?  I'd rather go with the guy who worked hard his life to be rich instead of the guy who never bothered to try and get out of his current situation and believes he needs to change the world for opportunity than himself.


most poor people are working 40 hours a week asshole
 
2014-04-11 01:53:41 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Kornchex: Go on....

single payer bad, stopping bad is good.

Kornchex: Yeah. Making billions of raping the environment is easily offset by token donations to universities that say it's bad. Six / Half Dozen right?

Raping the environment?
Fact:
"Koch employees have earned well over 700 awards for environmental, health and safety excellence since 2009, many of them from the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Safety and Health Administration. EPA officials have commended us for our "commitment to a cleaner environment" and called us "a model for other companies." "

Kornchex: Yeah. Fark the people who make them billions.

They're paying them arn't they? Yeah, providing jobs, that's a big fark you isn't it.

Kornchex: Giving money to crazies who deny science at every farking turn is the definition of wicked. They saw that when the teabaggers shut down the government last year. I was hoping they would have learned from their mistakes, but they clearly have not.

Questioning science is evil. ah yeah, that's what you're suppose to do. That is in fact what scientists do. Questioning is a good thing. You can call it denying if you wish I call it questioning. And there are some good questions out there.

Kornchex: Tell that to the millions living below the poverty line that are being screwed by the politicians that the Koch Bro's have bought. Go read the Ryan budget FFS.

One, the Kochs didn't buy anyone. Like the link I provide shows they arn't in the top 50. They are players but evil darklords they are not. Second, I read the Ryan budget and no where in there did he state that his goal was to starve poor people. Cut's in the growth of welfare programs do not starve people. And god forbid this plan cause some job growth and we can get more people to work.


Had you pegged as having a bit more intellectual integrity than feeling the need to defend the Koch brothers and a budget that adds 400 billion to defence spending and repeals Obamacare.

Just goes to show.
 
2014-04-11 01:54:42 PM
Hobodeluxe:There's plenty more hours in the week to work beyond 40.  Sounds like laziness to me.
 
2014-04-11 01:56:29 PM

Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?


They push for things like "safety regulations" or "wage increases" or "environmental protection", that cut into the profits of the Job Creating Ubermensch. They must be destroyed.
 
2014-04-11 01:57:26 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Deftoons: Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas

And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

I already know the answer to that.


I say the answer is both.  Humanity is capable of finding an agreeable middle ground.
 
2014-04-11 01:59:31 PM

LordJiro: Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?

They push for things like "safety regulations" or "wage increases" or "environmental protection", that cut into the profits of the Job Creating Ubermensch. They must be destroyed.


Wouldn't have this problem if we could just employ children again.  They want to work, and their tiny bodies and hands can get into small spaces much easier than an adult and for far less money.
 
2014-04-11 02:01:24 PM

Gnaglor: Hobodeluxe:There's plenty more hours in the week to work beyond 40.  Sounds like laziness to me.


What a profoundly sad comment.

Anyway, the point is not that millions of Americans work 40-hour weeks and fail to become wealthy. The point is that millions of Americans work 40-hour weeks and still can't feed their families.
 
2014-04-11 02:05:05 PM
That they're not breaking the law doesn't preclude changing the law to make such doings unlawful henceforth. It does (with the constitutional prohibition on post facto laws) imply that they shouldn't be prosecuted for what they've already done. However, if what they're doing is sufficiently lousy, "they're not breaking the law" becomes an argument for doing something about them (changing the law to prohibit such lousiness) rather than against it.

Ceteris paribus, anyway -- presuming the law can be changed without consequences worse than the existing harm.
 
2014-04-11 02:06:45 PM

qorkfiend: Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.

OpenSecrets.org only tracks money donated directly to candidates. Dark money, on the other hand, is untracked and tells a wildly different story re: relative spending. I find it interesting that your comment only focuses on the former, and completely ignores the latter.


Yep.  Take your half truths and lies else where Defttunes, you Kochsucker.  The Kochs are estimated do have spent at least 600 million during the 2012 election cycle, likely more.
 
2014-04-11 02:07:32 PM

Deftoons: Marcus Aurelius: Deftoons: Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas

And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

I already know the answer to that.

I say the answer is both.  Humanity is capable of finding an agreeable middle ground.


Which is why we SHOULD have stronger unions, to give workers enough of a 'voice' to counteract the corporate influence. But we've been demonizing and demolishing unions for decades, and America continues to suffer for it.
 
2014-04-11 02:11:46 PM

LordJiro: Deftoons: Marcus Aurelius: Deftoons: Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas

And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

I already know the answer to that.

I say the answer is both.  Humanity is capable of finding an agreeable middle ground.

Which is why we SHOULD have stronger unions, to give workers enough of a 'voice' to counteract the corporate influence. But we've been demonizing and demolishing unions for decades, and America continues to suffer for it.


This.  Allowing the uberwealthy to spend unlimited funds is the antithesis of a "middle ground"
 
2014-04-11 02:19:52 PM

Marcus Aurelius: So which Koch brother are you? Or are you just their PR guy?


I'm just curious on why all the hate lately. Hell I've got Wil Wheaton on Facebook and he has started in on them. Normally he isn't that hot headed. Is this just the flip side of Glenn Beck's Soros rage?

Tigger: Had you pegged as having a bit more intellectual integrity than feeling the need to defend the Koch brothers and a budget that adds 400 billion to defence spending and repeals Obamacare.

Just goes to show.



1) defense is one of the things our Federal government is suppose to spend money on. I personally think we spend a little too much, but those are good paying jobs we are supporting and we get something in return. So I dont rage too much about it.
2) Obamacare is bad so I'm ok with this. The really poor have always had medicaid. The longer this goes on the more I'm starting to believe that the Administration was just trying to find a way to funnel more money to the insurance companies. Make people sign up for healthplans they cant afford but have to have, increase taxes so the government pick up the rest. Send all the money to the insurance companies. Profit.

Unless the Koch Brothers suddenly got into the defense or insurance business I don't see how this proves their dark powers. But we've had a few good discussion and I wanted to answer your post.
 
2014-04-11 02:23:11 PM
Did I mention he's also a Democrat?

Why do you think that matters, subby?
 
2014-04-11 02:27:16 PM

whidbey: Did I mention he's also a Democrat?

Why do you think that matters, subby?


not subby!

But this is what I do. When the team criticizes one of their own I take notice or visa versa when they praise or defend someone that isn't on their team I take notice.
 
2014-04-11 02:27:17 PM

Hobodeluxe: bullshiat. lets not go back 25 years and fluff the numbers with cherry picked data. (also remember these "liberal" groups are unions representing millions of workers. not a handful of billionaires)
lets look at the last election and the trend that is going on.

SEIU spent 70 million in 2012 they represent 2.1 million workers . that means that each worker has about "34 bucks worth of free speech"

Sheldon Adelson spent 42 million
Kochs spent upwards of 60 million
Meg Whitman spent 144 million


Even if we entertained your point about labor unions, those labor unions still literally DWARF those handful of billionaires with campaign contributions.   Multi-fold.

But it goes much more beyond labor unions - just like their Republican counterparts, many Democrats are also backed by big banks and lenders like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.  So spare the bullshiat yourself.

To further address those names you mentioned - Meg Whitman and Sheldon Anderson, look how that ended.  Dumping massive amounts of cash into an election does not guarantee victory. Meg Whitman lost to Jerry Brown.  Sheldon wasted millions of dollars on candidates that lost.

And lastly, those Koch Brothers spent $33 million on ads attacking Obama.  Last time I checked, Obama won re-election.  Once again - Koch Brothers may have a lot of money but they hardly the controlling factor as the left is trying to make people believe them to be.
 
2014-04-11 02:28:18 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


Funny thing about your link it doesn't say what programs they support at those Universities.  I mean if someone supported say Campus Crusade for Christ they could claim that they give money to every campus that there is a crusade on.  You could even fund a White People are just better bake sale, I mean a Young Republican bake sale and honestly say you are supporting the University that had the bake sale right?
 
2014-04-11 02:29:11 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: whidbey: Did I mention he's also a Democrat?

Why do you think that matters, subby?

not subby!

But this is what I do. When the team criticizes one of their own I take notice or visa versa when they praise or defend someone that isn't on their team I take notice.


I don't know if I find it amusing or disturbing that people consider political parties "teams."

What do you think, Drew?
 
2014-04-11 02:30:03 PM

Deftoons: Once again - Koch Brothers may have a lot of money but they hardly the controlling factor as the left is trying to make people believe them to be.


lolwut

denial is a funny thing, man
 
2014-04-11 02:30:04 PM

Danger Mouse: Dr Dreidel: Danger Mouse: Only 8 TPM articles linked to the echo chamber today?

/it's like one marathon circle jerk

No one's holding a second amendment solution to your head, Sunshine. Door's up there /, top-right of your window (top-right if you're an Apple).


Ahhh, don't like our echo chamber then leave.

/you got something right there, on your chin.


Look! Little tiny poopies all over the thread.


/as usual
 
2014-04-11 02:32:05 PM

HotWingConspiracy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!

Al Capone built orphanages and kept many people employed.


THIIIIIIS!

That's how groups like Hamas gain support from the regular folks.
Just more violence involved thereabouts.
 
2014-04-11 02:34:37 PM
As a liberal, I am not surprised that there are dems or repubs who are honest and bipartisan.


Hopefully the leaders of both parties can follow this example.
 
2014-04-11 02:34:53 PM

Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.


Call me when (R)'s have ideas other than repealing Obamacare, cutting social programs, raising taxes on the middle/poor classes and cutting taxes for the rich.
 
2014-04-11 02:35:54 PM

Deftoons: And lastly, those Koch Brothers spent $33 million on ads attacking Obama. Last time I checked, Obama won re-election. Once again - Koch Brothers may have a lot of money but they hardly the controlling factor as the left is trying to make people believe them to be.


Everyone likes a boogieman to blame their troubles on. I have no problem with this. When it's someone in their basement blogging away or some guy telling a hippie what she needs to hear so he can get in her pants or some talk show host that wants to make sure you tune in next week, I'm fine with it . Blame away! But when it is senior United States Senator on the floor of Congress, well then it kind of worries me.
 
2014-04-11 02:37:35 PM

TheMysticS: HotWingConspiracy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!

Al Capone built orphanages and kept many people employed.

THIIIIIIS!

That's how groups like Hamas gain support from the regular folks.
Just more violence involved thereabouts.


And giving money to the Tea Party is equal to having running gun battles in the streets?!
 
2014-04-11 02:38:46 PM

Marcus Aurelius: grumpfuff: A spokesman for Koch Industries, Steve Lombardo, told Politico that it was "about time" someone stood up for Charles and David Koch.


The poor, poor, oppressed Koch brothers.

They are so oppressed that one of them even had to write a Wall Street Journal editorial about how oppressed they are.

It is truly a sad day for America when a billionaire can't use his vast influence to destroy the middle class without someone pointing it out to them.


"Help, help, I'm being oppressed!" - Rand Paul
 
2014-04-11 02:40:24 PM

TheMysticS: HotWingConspiracy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!

Al Capone built orphanages and kept many people employed.

THIIIIIIS!

That's how groups like Hamas gain support from the regular folks.
Just more violence involved thereabouts.


And Philip Morris supported the arts, so all the idiots who oppose cancer, heart attacks and emphysema need to STFU.

/ sorry, that should be 'Altria' - lol, get it, like altruism?
 
2014-04-11 02:41:16 PM

Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?



The top political doners  (greater than the K bros ) are unions, which the democrats seem to have no problem with, however when the Kock brothers donate large somes, seems harry reid have a problem.

so if  the big union donations are ok., then you can't  be against what private citizens donate.
 
2014-04-11 02:43:08 PM

suebhoney: Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.

Call me when (R)'s have ideas other than repealing Obamacare, cutting social programs, raising taxes on the middle/poor classes and cutting taxes for the rich.


They also want to outlaw abortionrequire that women are fully informed about how developed the baby growing in their belly is before it is heartlessly ripped out.
 
2014-04-11 02:43:35 PM

Danger Mouse: Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?


The top political doners  (greater than the K bros ) are unions, which the democrats seem to have no problem with, however when the Kock brothers donate large somes, seems harry reid have a problem.

so if  the big union donations are ok., then you can't  be against what private citizens donate.


So you don't understand how dark money works. There is an explanation further up the thread if you care to enlighten yourself.
 
2014-04-11 02:48:14 PM

Danger Mouse: Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?


The top political doners  (greater than the K bros ) are unions, which the democrats seem to have no problem with, however when the Kock brothers donate large somes, seems harry reid have a problem.

so if  the big union donations are ok., then you can't  be against what private citizens donate.



The Koch-backed network "raised at least $407 million during the 2012 campaign, according to the analysis of tax returns by The Washington Post and the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks money in politics," the story continued, adding:
"Unions plowed roughly $400 million into national, state and local elections in 2012."


30 seconds on Google found out you are wrong
 
2014-04-11 02:48:35 PM

Deftoons: Hobodeluxe: bullshiat. lets not go back 25 years and fluff the numbers with cherry picked data. (also remember these "liberal" groups are unions representing millions of workers. not a handful of billionaires)
lets look at the last election and the trend that is going on.

SEIU spent 70 million in 2012 they represent 2.1 million workers . that means that each worker has about "34 bucks worth of free speech"

Sheldon Adelson spent 42 million
Kochs spent upwards of 60 million
Meg Whitman spent 144 million

Even if we entertained your point about labor unions, those labor unions still literally DWARF those handful of billionaires with campaign contributions.   Multi-fold.

But it goes much more beyond labor unions - just like their Republican counterparts, many Democrats are also backed by big banks and lenders like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.  So spare the bullshiat yourself.

To further address those names you mentioned - Meg Whitman and Sheldon Anderson, look how that ended.  Dumping massive amounts of cash into an election does not guarantee victory. Meg Whitman lost to Jerry Brown.  Sheldon wasted millions of dollars on candidates that lost.

And lastly, those Koch Brothers spent $33 million on ads attacking Obama.  Last time I checked, Obama won re-election.  Once again - Koch Brothers may have a lot of money but they hardly the controlling factor as the left is trying to make people believe them to be.


Just because it isn't guaranteed doesn't mean it's a good thing.
 
2014-04-11 03:02:10 PM

Wendy's Chili: New rule: No "oh wait, did I say Republican?"-style headlines if the Senator in question is named Manchin, Landreau, McCaskill, Warner, or Pryor.


No need to list them, just say, "Any Democrat fearing voter backlash over Obamacare," and that'll cover it.
 
2014-04-11 03:07:58 PM
Does anyone honestly think having this much money in politics, from either side of the aisle, is a good thing? It farking breeds corruption. I have never heard anyone make an argument for why it's beneficial, other than essentially "whatever it takes for my team to win!"

Unfortunately the supreme court gave the notion of reducing the influence of money in politics the middle finger with Citizens United...so any hope is now left to the legislative branch.  I wonder what their take is on this topic?  Oh, that's right:


www.jigzone.com


MOAR!


We're all farked...
 
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