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(Talking Points Memo)   Senator defends the Koch brothers: "They're not breaking the law." Did I mention he's also a Democrat?   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 176
    More: Fail, Democrats, Koch Brothers, Joe Manchin, Brian Kilmeade  
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951 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Apr 2014 at 11:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-11 12:54:09 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.


those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.
 
2014-04-11 12:54:58 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Anyone else want to suck billionaire genitals?


Maybe.
 
2014-04-11 12:55:21 PM  

colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.


Half the country supports the Tea Party?


No wonder we're farked.
 
2014-04-11 12:56:02 PM  
That is not a defense Senator, it is an indictment of you and your colleagues.
 
2014-04-11 12:56:25 PM  
"Democrat." Good one, subby.
 
2014-04-11 12:58:52 PM  

grumpfuff: Best Princess Celestia: LordJiro: Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.

Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.

Never disappointed, never proven wrong about someone. Yeah, it works

Please provide citations proving corruption for Representative Rush Holt(D-NJ).

I'll wait.


You'll have to wait until he dies so we can have a complete history.
 
2014-04-11 12:58:53 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.


Well I see stopping the single payer as a plus. They also fund universities that have said that there is man made global warming so that's off set. And stopping ACA or Unions isn't "heinous". And giving money to the Tea Party isn't wicked! Just as giving money to any political action group is wicked. Are they trying to crash the markets? Are they running sweat shops in 3rd world countries?


They don't even make the top 50 in the political donations game!

Those are not heinous acts. They give money to people who have a different political view than you do. Get over it.
 
2014-04-11 01:00:09 PM  

92myrtle: Joe Manchin. . .

[stormchan.org image 850x606]


I'm sick about hearing about this guy and his big house.  screw him.
 
2014-04-11 01:03:17 PM  
Over time "doing the right thing" was replaced by "not technically doing anything illegal."
 
2014-04-11 01:03:54 PM  

colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.


So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?
 
2014-04-11 01:04:19 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: grumpfuff: Best Princess Celestia: LordJiro: Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.

Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.

Never disappointed, never proven wrong about someone. Yeah, it works

Please provide citations proving corruption for Representative Rush Holt(D-NJ).

I'll wait.

You'll have to wait until he dies so we can have a complete history.


I see. So, there's literally no dead politician whom you admire, then? They were all, without exception corrupt?
 
2014-04-11 01:05:50 PM  

Danger Mouse: Only 8 TPM articles linked to the echo chamber today?

/it's like one marathon circle jerk


No one's holding a second amendment solution to your head, Sunshine. Door's up there /, top-right of your window (top-right if you're an Apple).
 
2014-04-11 01:06:29 PM  

Dr Dreidel: (top-left if you're an Apple).


// peave
 
2014-04-11 01:07:18 PM  

grumpfuff: A spokesman for Koch Industries, Steve Lombardo, told Politico that it was "about time" someone stood up for Charles and David Koch.


The poor, poor, oppressed Koch brothers.


yeah no one speaks for them.

www.washingtonpost.com
 
2014-04-11 01:09:15 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


Al Capone built orphanages and kept many people employed.
 
2014-04-11 01:09:43 PM  
Of course not, they buy the people that make the laws.

Also, rich white men do not go to jail.  Unless they commit the ultimate crime:  Stealing money from other rich white men.
 
2014-04-11 01:10:48 PM  

UncomfortableSilence: So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?




And I believe that both parties want to do that. We all have the same goal, we just have different theories on how to get there. Do you actually believe that there are people out there that want to make more poor people go hungry? Where is the personal benefit to that?!
 
2014-04-11 01:11:52 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Well I see stopping the single payer as a plus.


Go on....

The Stealth Hippopotamus: hey also fund universities that have said that there is man made global warming so that's off set.


Yeah.  Making billions of raping the environment is easily offset by token donations to universities that say it's bad.  Six / Half Dozen right?

The Stealth Hippopotamus: And stopping ACA or Unions isn't "heinous".


Yeah.  Fark the people who make them billions.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: And giving money to the Tea Party isn't wicked!


Giving money to crazies who deny science at every farking turn is the definition of wicked.  They saw that when the teabaggers shut down the government last year.  I was hoping they would have learned from their mistakes, but they clearly have not.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Those are not heinous acts. They give money to people who have a different political view than you do. Get over it.


Tell that to the millions living below the poverty line that are being screwed by the politicians that the Koch Bro's have bought.  Go read the Ryan budget FFS.
 
2014-04-11 01:12:24 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Danger Mouse: Only 8 TPM articles linked to the echo chamber today?

/it's like one marathon circle jerk

No one's holding a second amendment solution to your head, Sunshine. Door's up there /, top-right of your window (top-right if you're an Apple).



Ahhh, don't like our echo chamber then leave.

/you got something right there, on your chin.
 
2014-04-11 01:12:31 PM  

colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.


What you're actually presenting is a caricature of the "liberal point of view". Too many have swallowed so much conservative media bloviations that this is what's now present in their colon..."POW"!

Some day the tea baggers might grow up and realize how thoroughly they've been lied to.

But I won't hold my breath hoping for that day.
 
2014-04-11 01:14:05 PM  
Actually, they're breaking a lot of campaign finance, election coordination, and IRS laws.  It's just that due to the laws we can't really investigate or prove it.

But besides that, most people aren't attacking them over alleged law breaking.  We're attacking them because they're immoral unAmerican cocks hellbent at destroying our country.   Given their parents, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a long term KGB op.

That or they're Hydra.
 
2014-04-11 01:14:26 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UncomfortableSilence: So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?

And I believe that both parties want to do that. We all have the same goal, we just have different theories on how to get there. Do you actually believe that there are people out there that want to make more poor people go hungry?


Yes, they draft bills to that end all the time.

Where is the personal benefit to that?!

Their political base thinks it's a good thing, so they benefit by getting votes.
 
2014-04-11 01:15:01 PM  

UncomfortableSilence: colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.

So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?


there will always be poor people.  some stay that way due to their choices.  others, through no fault of their own.  society should provide help for them, mostly widows and orphans.
 
2014-04-11 01:16:02 PM  
The Stealth Hippopotamus: hey also fund universities that have said that there is man made global warming so that's off set.

Not really. they do it because it's mostly a write-off and it buys them influence. Like when they give to PBS and can get a program that they don't like shut down.
now they have leverage in the universities and can get those economic and civics professors that don't buy into "hyper-capitalism as the best thing in the world" fired.
 
2014-04-11 01:16:17 PM  
They are the definition of 'scumbag'.
 
2014-04-11 01:16:44 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: grumpfuff: Best Princess Celestia: LordJiro: Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.

Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.

Never disappointed, never proven wrong about someone. Yeah, it works

Please provide citations proving corruption for Representative Rush Holt(D-NJ).

I'll wait.

You'll have to wait until he dies so we can have a complete history.


So..you can't prove it then. That means at least one politician is not corrupt and your "All politicians are corrupt" bit is shown to be the stupid drivel that it is.
 
2014-04-11 01:17:45 PM  

Hobodeluxe: grumpfuff: A spokesman for Koch Industries, Steve Lombardo, told Politico that it was "about time" someone stood up for Charles and David Koch.


The poor, poor, oppressed Koch brothers.

yeah no one speaks for them.

[www.washingtonpost.com image 850x1170]


I was gonna link to that Republican Senator(or was it Representative?) who was just defending them the other day, but then I got lazy.
 
2014-04-11 01:19:21 PM  

colon_pow: there will always be poor people.  some stay that way due to their choices.  others, through no fault of their own.  society should provide help for them, mostly widows and orphans.


What is this, 1873?

Women get remarried or have careers of their own, and i haven't seen an "orphan" since i watched Annie when i was a kid.
 
2014-04-11 01:19:28 PM  

Danger Mouse: Ahhh, don't like our echo chamber site then leave.


Yeah, pretty much. Try any one of these:
-foxnews.com
-freerepublic.com
-reddit.com/r/Republican
-nro.com

// there are plenty of conservatives and Republicans around here, and many of them are great to engage in discussion
// whiners, on the other hand, need to adopt some Warrior Code and get the fark over it
 
2014-04-11 01:21:43 PM  
thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com

/oblig
 
2014-04-11 01:21:51 PM  

colon_pow: UncomfortableSilence: colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.

So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?

there will always be poor people.  some stay that way due to their choices.  others, through no fault of their own.  society should provide help for them, mostly widows and orphans.


and sick and handicapped and those who can't find a job simply because there's not enough of them to go round. of course if we were to spend money on jobs programs and had those people actually doing something for their assistance that would help. I'd much rather pay them for services rendered instead of doing nothing. at least we get some value out of it right?
 
2014-04-11 01:26:42 PM  
Wait, he's a DEMOCRAT?  Well, that changes EVERYTHING!  The Koch should definitely be allowed to do whatever they want and alter the face of how elections are run.  You know why?  Because a DEMOCRAT said something.

Done.  Ship it.  Pack it in.
 
2014-04-11 01:26:55 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion


Way to entirely miss the point, Bubba
 
2014-04-11 01:26:59 PM  
What they are doing isn't illegal.  THAT'S THE PROBLEM!  I don't believe in suppressing rights.  Those guys have the right to talk just as much as anyone else.  But what is horrible is because they are so shifty, they can speak without it being connected to them, AND they lie, AND they buy influence by supporting people and elevating them far beyond the merit of their ideas, AND the volume with which they sling their shiat makes it impossible to get a legitimate message through so only the bases participate.  Everyone is sick of this shiat.  Corporations are not people, these guys don't pay ENOUGH taxes and truly we will only be free once they die.
 
2014-04-11 01:29:05 PM  
Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.
 
2014-04-11 01:29:26 PM  
Nobody is saying (well, I'm not) that any laws are broken by wealthy donors, only that election financing is an area that needs more laws.

Agree or disagree as you please, but stop defending against attacks that aren't being made.
 
2014-04-11 01:29:46 PM  
The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.
 
2014-04-11 01:30:21 PM  

plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal.  THAT'S THE PROBLEM!  I don't believe in suppressing rights.  Those guys have the right to talk just as much as anyone else.  But what is horrible is because they are so shifty, they can speak without it being connected to them, AND they lie, AND they buy influence by supporting people and elevating them far beyond the merit of their ideas, AND the volume with which they sling their shiat makes it impossible to get a legitimate message through so only the bases participate.  Everyone is sick of this shiat.  Corporations are not people, these guys don't pay ENOUGH taxes and truly we will only be free once they die.


they won't die. they just pass it on to their crotchfruit or someone just like them. they will always be in abundance. what has to happen is enough people getting tired of their shiat to do something about it.
 
2014-04-11 01:32:01 PM  
This is one of my favorite illogical arguments. X is not illegal. Therefore, whoever does X should not be criticized.

Legal doesn't always mean moral or ethical.
 
2014-04-11 01:32:22 PM  

Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.


OpenSecrets.org only tracks money donated directly to candidates. Dark money, on the other hand, is untracked and tells a wildly different story re: relative spending. I find it interesting that your comment only focuses on the former, and completely ignores the latter.
 
2014-04-11 01:33:34 PM  

plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!


I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs.
 
2014-04-11 01:33:39 PM  

colon_pow: UncomfortableSilence: colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.

So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?

there will always be poor people.  some stay that way due to their choices.  others, through no fault of their own.  society should provide help for them, mostly widows and orphans.


Both sides agree that there should be personal responsibility taken, but there are a lot of external factors beyond ambition that affect people and prevent them from finding jobs or relegating them to making use of government programs.  We need social programs to help people.  Cutting and gutting those programs doesn't do anything to help those people though and the current crop of GOP ideas all revolve around doing precisely that.  I'd rather see some government waste than one child going hungry that didn't have to.

Cutting taxes for the wealthiest among us, those that can afford to clothe, feed, house, and afford excessive luxuries, doesn't do anything to help those that can't.  It never has.
 
2014-04-11 01:34:23 PM  
Gotta love how the only way this moran can justify the Koch brothers is by scraping the bottom of the reasoning barrel.  Seriously, the most favorable thing he can say is what they is technically not illegal.
 
2014-04-11 01:34:48 PM  

Saiga410: plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs.


*facepalm*
 
2014-04-11 01:35:59 PM  

Saiga410: plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs.


Yes, because that is the problem we're trying to discuss here.  It's definitely not the amount of purchased access that they get.  Definitely not the fact that corporations are treated like people in the eyes of the law and can similarly purchase access.
 
2014-04-11 01:36:20 PM  

qorkfiend: Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.

OpenSecrets.org only tracks money donated directly to candidates. Dark money, on the other hand, is untracked and tells a wildly different story re: relative spending. I find it interesting that your comment only focuses on the former, and completely ignores the latter.


Is it not what the directive is of the left - that donating money to candidates is creating a plutocracy?

And is the left somehow devoid of said dark money too?  I don't see how anything you said lessens my point at all.
 
2014-04-11 01:36:55 PM  

grumpfuff: A spokesman for Koch Industries, Steve Lombardo, told Politico that it was "about time" someone stood up for Charles and David Koch.


The poor, poor, oppressed Koch brothers.


They are so oppressed that one of them even had to write a Wall Street Journal editorial about how oppressed they are.

It is truly a sad day for America when a billionaire can't use his vast influence to destroy the middle class without someone pointing it out to them.
 
2014-04-11 01:37:35 PM  

kronicfeld: That was a pretty tepid "defense."

 
2014-04-11 01:37:38 PM  
It's not illegal to buy elected officials but it should be.
 
2014-04-11 01:38:16 PM  

Saiga410: plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs not give the money to me.


FIXED
 
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