Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Talking Points Memo)   Senator defends the Koch brothers: "They're not breaking the law." Did I mention he's also a Democrat?   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 176
    More: Fail, Democrats, Koch Brothers, Joe Manchin, Brian Kilmeade  
•       •       •

951 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Apr 2014 at 11:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



176 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2014-04-11 09:32:56 AM  
I love how "providing jobs" is now just carte blanche for doing damn near anything. "They run a successful business! So it's OK that they're doing everything within their power to corrupt the American political system and make sure their opinion matters more in the national discussion than the average citizens!"
 
2014-04-11 09:38:59 AM  
New rule: No "oh wait, did I say Republican?"-style headlines if the Senator in question is named Manchin, Landreau, McCaskill, Warner, or Pryor.
 
2014-04-11 09:40:14 AM  
That was a pretty tepid "defense."
 
2014-04-11 09:41:23 AM  

kronicfeld: That was a pretty tepid "defense."


It's the only one possible.
 
2014-04-11 09:53:57 AM  
DINO?
 
2014-04-11 09:56:36 AM  
So he's extending the democrat double standard across the aisle?
 
2014-04-11 10:00:46 AM  
I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!
 
2014-04-11 10:01:50 AM  
In America, you are free to bribe both political parties equally.  And sucking a billionaire's genitals is just par for the course.
 
2014-04-11 10:02:55 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

Anyone else want to suck billionaire genitals?
 
2014-04-11 10:06:54 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!

That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

Anyone else want to suck billionaire genitals?


Looks like there's already a line
 
2014-04-11 10:14:08 AM  
It isn't his fault.  The Kochs gave an order to their employees to publicly come to their defense recently.  He is just doing what his bosses told him to do.
 
2014-04-11 10:21:39 AM  
wow, so joe manchin - a rightwing democrat from a red state - gave a timid defense of the kochs by saying, "they're not breaking the law?"

wow, that's some heavy-duty vindication you have there, submitter!
 
2014-04-11 10:36:44 AM  
They're criticized for using their massive (inherited) wealth to unfairly and unethically influence elections.  Many people are upset BECAUSE it's perfectly legal to do so.

But hey, you gave that strawman what for.
 
2014-04-11 10:47:26 AM  

FlashHarry: wow, so joe manchin - a rightwing democrat from a red state - gave a timid defense of the kochs by saying, "they're not breaking the law?"

wow, that's some heavy-duty vindication you have there, submitter!



I think submitter proved the most important thing... Both sides are bad.

So now we must all vote Republican. Got it?
 
2014-04-11 11:07:26 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.


What heinous actions?
 
2014-04-11 11:23:05 AM  
when has anyone accused them of breaking the law
 
2014-04-11 11:26:13 AM  

Jackson Herring: when has anyone accused them of breaking the law


Pretty much never

/that's what makes this a "defense" apparently
 
2014-04-11 11:28:22 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Jackson Herring: when has anyone accused them of breaking the law

Pretty much never

/that's what makes this a "defense" apparently


the important thing is that you farking communist reds shouldn't make so many personal attacks against the koch brothers
 
2014-04-11 11:36:39 AM  

Jackson Herring: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Jackson Herring: when has anyone accused them of breaking the law

Pretty much never

/that's what makes this a "defense" apparently

the important thing is that you farking communist reds shouldn't make so many personal attacks against the koch brothers


Damn right
 
2014-04-11 11:55:48 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?


Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.
 
2014-04-11 11:59:43 AM  

jayhawk88: I love how "providing jobs" is now just carte blanche for doing damn near anything. "They run a successful business! So it's OK that they're doing everything within their power to corrupt the American political system and make sure their opinion matters more in the national discussion than the average citizens!"


That _is_ what most politicians believe.
 
2014-04-11 12:00:40 PM  
of course they're not breaking the law. they have them custom made for them.
 
2014-04-11 12:05:49 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


they're trying hard to get that "employer of union labor" title changed though.
 
2014-04-11 12:06:01 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


You really don't get it, do you?
 
2014-04-11 12:09:44 PM  

Hobodeluxe: of course they're not breaking the law. they have them custom made for them.


That right thar is the issue. It's easy to follow the rules when you're the one writing them.
 
2014-04-11 12:10:04 PM  
Well of course, this guy doesn't want to disrupt his own gravy train. What's so shocking?
 
2014-04-11 12:10:12 PM  
did anyone read the poor person's rebuttal that was also published in a major newspaper?
 
2014-04-11 12:11:25 PM  
We know that.  It's the fact that bribing politicians is legal is what's got us pissed off.
 
2014-04-11 12:12:32 PM  
It's not illegal to like Nickelback. It doesn't make it right.
 
2014-04-11 12:14:44 PM  
Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.
 
2014-04-11 12:16:48 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.


Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.
 
2014-04-11 12:18:53 PM  
They aren't breaking the law.  They're buying the right to write it.

/I'm sure they're breaking it too.
 
2014-04-11 12:19:41 PM  
Prejudice, by Joe Minchin
 
2014-04-11 12:20:52 PM  

LordJiro: Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.

Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.


No, see, he's expressing extreme cynicism.  You can't be hopelessly naive when you're being cynical, it's a rule or something.

No, but really, everyone who thinks that hating politics makes them immune from having wrong opinions about politics should be silenced forever.
 
2014-04-11 12:23:16 PM  
A spokesman for Koch Industries, Steve Lombardo, told Politico that it was "about time" someone stood up for Charles and David Koch.


The poor, poor, oppressed Koch brothers.
 
2014-04-11 12:26:55 PM  
If you're trying to rally the base, the bases have already been rallied. The right and left bases have been rallied," Manchin said. "It's us in the middle that have to start making something happen here in Washington to move this country forward."

You dont assume that the base is rilled up and is guaranteed to stay riled up.  Expect Kochs, abortion, war on women, gay marriage to ebb and flow upwards until Nov and then maybe some peace an quite for 6 months until the next election cycle starts.
 
2014-04-11 12:27:59 PM  

LordJiro: Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.

Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.


Never disappointed, never proven wrong about someone. Yeah, it works
 
2014-04-11 12:30:34 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Employer of union labor?


Uh. That's a virtue on the level with "doesn't crap in swimming pools.".  Employees have a right to form a union.

And they don't just "have a political opinion". They also have the money necessary to get it put in place.
 
2014-04-11 12:32:28 PM  
Wait, what?

What's he supposed to do - ignore objective reality and claim that they are breaking the law?
 
2014-04-11 12:33:08 PM  
You know WHO ELSE didn't break any laws?
 
2014-04-11 12:33:10 PM  

Sgt Otter: They're criticized for using their massive (inherited) wealth to unfairly and unethically influence elections.  Many people are upset BECAUSE it's perfectly legal to do so.

But hey, you gave that strawman what for.


I wish there was a way to create the perfect Randian world to send them to but they'd go with nothing.  I wonder if they really think they'd be where they are without that inheritance.  I'd love to test it.
 
2014-04-11 12:33:17 PM  
Of course they're not breaking the law, they wrote it! (See: ALEC)
 
2014-04-11 12:33:22 PM  
They're not breaking the law.  They're buying the law.
 
2014-04-11 12:37:58 PM  

Kornchex: They aren't breaking the law.  They're buying the right to write it.

/I'm sure they're breaking it too.


at a minimum they are exploiting the holes they lobby for/write into the laws
 
2014-04-11 12:39:17 PM  

techgeek07: They're not breaking the law.  They're buying the law.


they are writing the law.
 
2014-04-11 12:40:01 PM  
Only 8 TPM articles linked to the echo chamber today?

/it's like one marathon circle jerk
 
2014-04-11 12:42:09 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: LordJiro: Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.

Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.

Never disappointed, never proven wrong about someone. Yeah, it works


Please provide citations proving corruption for Representative Rush Holt(D-NJ).

I'll wait.
 
2014-04-11 12:42:35 PM  
The problem is not that they're doing anything illegal, it's that court decisions and laws are being written to allow ever more influence from billionaires like Koch's and their companies.
 
2014-04-11 12:44:42 PM  
Oh, did you say West Virginia, that corrupt state of pollution? Interesting. Good thing we only analyze people by D and R for their opinions.
 
2014-04-11 12:45:21 PM  
Someone nobody gives a f*ck about said essentially nothing. Did I mention he's a Democrat?

/ wtf does that even mean
 
2014-04-11 12:54:09 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.


those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.
 
2014-04-11 12:54:58 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Anyone else want to suck billionaire genitals?


Maybe.
 
2014-04-11 12:55:21 PM  

colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.


Half the country supports the Tea Party?


No wonder we're farked.
 
2014-04-11 12:56:02 PM  
That is not a defense Senator, it is an indictment of you and your colleagues.
 
2014-04-11 12:56:25 PM  
"Democrat." Good one, subby.
 
2014-04-11 12:58:52 PM  

grumpfuff: Best Princess Celestia: LordJiro: Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.

Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.

Never disappointed, never proven wrong about someone. Yeah, it works

Please provide citations proving corruption for Representative Rush Holt(D-NJ).

I'll wait.


You'll have to wait until he dies so we can have a complete history.
 
2014-04-11 12:58:53 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.


Well I see stopping the single payer as a plus. They also fund universities that have said that there is man made global warming so that's off set. And stopping ACA or Unions isn't "heinous". And giving money to the Tea Party isn't wicked! Just as giving money to any political action group is wicked. Are they trying to crash the markets? Are they running sweat shops in 3rd world countries?


They don't even make the top 50 in the political donations game!

Those are not heinous acts. They give money to people who have a different political view than you do. Get over it.
 
2014-04-11 01:00:09 PM  

92myrtle: Joe Manchin. . .

[stormchan.org image 850x606]


I'm sick about hearing about this guy and his big house.  screw him.
 
2014-04-11 01:03:17 PM  
Over time "doing the right thing" was replaced by "not technically doing anything illegal."
 
2014-04-11 01:03:54 PM  

colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.


So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?
 
2014-04-11 01:04:19 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: grumpfuff: Best Princess Celestia: LordJiro: Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.

Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.

Never disappointed, never proven wrong about someone. Yeah, it works

Please provide citations proving corruption for Representative Rush Holt(D-NJ).

I'll wait.

You'll have to wait until he dies so we can have a complete history.


I see. So, there's literally no dead politician whom you admire, then? They were all, without exception corrupt?
 
2014-04-11 01:05:50 PM  

Danger Mouse: Only 8 TPM articles linked to the echo chamber today?

/it's like one marathon circle jerk


No one's holding a second amendment solution to your head, Sunshine. Door's up there /, top-right of your window (top-right if you're an Apple).
 
2014-04-11 01:06:29 PM  

Dr Dreidel: (top-left if you're an Apple).


// peave
 
2014-04-11 01:07:18 PM  

grumpfuff: A spokesman for Koch Industries, Steve Lombardo, told Politico that it was "about time" someone stood up for Charles and David Koch.


The poor, poor, oppressed Koch brothers.


yeah no one speaks for them.

www.washingtonpost.com
 
2014-04-11 01:09:15 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


Al Capone built orphanages and kept many people employed.
 
2014-04-11 01:09:43 PM  
Of course not, they buy the people that make the laws.

Also, rich white men do not go to jail.  Unless they commit the ultimate crime:  Stealing money from other rich white men.
 
2014-04-11 01:10:48 PM  

UncomfortableSilence: So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?




And I believe that both parties want to do that. We all have the same goal, we just have different theories on how to get there. Do you actually believe that there are people out there that want to make more poor people go hungry? Where is the personal benefit to that?!
 
2014-04-11 01:11:52 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Well I see stopping the single payer as a plus.


Go on....

The Stealth Hippopotamus: hey also fund universities that have said that there is man made global warming so that's off set.


Yeah.  Making billions of raping the environment is easily offset by token donations to universities that say it's bad.  Six / Half Dozen right?

The Stealth Hippopotamus: And stopping ACA or Unions isn't "heinous".


Yeah.  Fark the people who make them billions.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: And giving money to the Tea Party isn't wicked!


Giving money to crazies who deny science at every farking turn is the definition of wicked.  They saw that when the teabaggers shut down the government last year.  I was hoping they would have learned from their mistakes, but they clearly have not.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Those are not heinous acts. They give money to people who have a different political view than you do. Get over it.


Tell that to the millions living below the poverty line that are being screwed by the politicians that the Koch Bro's have bought.  Go read the Ryan budget FFS.
 
2014-04-11 01:12:24 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Danger Mouse: Only 8 TPM articles linked to the echo chamber today?

/it's like one marathon circle jerk

No one's holding a second amendment solution to your head, Sunshine. Door's up there /, top-right of your window (top-right if you're an Apple).



Ahhh, don't like our echo chamber then leave.

/you got something right there, on your chin.
 
2014-04-11 01:12:31 PM  

colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.


What you're actually presenting is a caricature of the "liberal point of view". Too many have swallowed so much conservative media bloviations that this is what's now present in their colon..."POW"!

Some day the tea baggers might grow up and realize how thoroughly they've been lied to.

But I won't hold my breath hoping for that day.
 
2014-04-11 01:14:05 PM  
Actually, they're breaking a lot of campaign finance, election coordination, and IRS laws.  It's just that due to the laws we can't really investigate or prove it.

But besides that, most people aren't attacking them over alleged law breaking.  We're attacking them because they're immoral unAmerican cocks hellbent at destroying our country.   Given their parents, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a long term KGB op.

That or they're Hydra.
 
2014-04-11 01:14:26 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UncomfortableSilence: So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?

And I believe that both parties want to do that. We all have the same goal, we just have different theories on how to get there. Do you actually believe that there are people out there that want to make more poor people go hungry?


Yes, they draft bills to that end all the time.

Where is the personal benefit to that?!

Their political base thinks it's a good thing, so they benefit by getting votes.
 
2014-04-11 01:15:01 PM  

UncomfortableSilence: colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.

So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?


there will always be poor people.  some stay that way due to their choices.  others, through no fault of their own.  society should provide help for them, mostly widows and orphans.
 
2014-04-11 01:16:02 PM  
The Stealth Hippopotamus: hey also fund universities that have said that there is man made global warming so that's off set.

Not really. they do it because it's mostly a write-off and it buys them influence. Like when they give to PBS and can get a program that they don't like shut down.
now they have leverage in the universities and can get those economic and civics professors that don't buy into "hyper-capitalism as the best thing in the world" fired.
 
2014-04-11 01:16:17 PM  
They are the definition of 'scumbag'.
 
2014-04-11 01:16:44 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: grumpfuff: Best Princess Celestia: LordJiro: Best Princess Celestia: Doesn't matter what side theyre on.
All politicians are equally corrupt.

Must be nice to have such a simple worldview.

Never disappointed, never proven wrong about someone. Yeah, it works

Please provide citations proving corruption for Representative Rush Holt(D-NJ).

I'll wait.

You'll have to wait until he dies so we can have a complete history.


So..you can't prove it then. That means at least one politician is not corrupt and your "All politicians are corrupt" bit is shown to be the stupid drivel that it is.
 
2014-04-11 01:17:45 PM  

Hobodeluxe: grumpfuff: A spokesman for Koch Industries, Steve Lombardo, told Politico that it was "about time" someone stood up for Charles and David Koch.


The poor, poor, oppressed Koch brothers.

yeah no one speaks for them.

[www.washingtonpost.com image 850x1170]


I was gonna link to that Republican Senator(or was it Representative?) who was just defending them the other day, but then I got lazy.
 
2014-04-11 01:19:21 PM  

colon_pow: there will always be poor people.  some stay that way due to their choices.  others, through no fault of their own.  society should provide help for them, mostly widows and orphans.


What is this, 1873?

Women get remarried or have careers of their own, and i haven't seen an "orphan" since i watched Annie when i was a kid.
 
2014-04-11 01:19:28 PM  

Danger Mouse: Ahhh, don't like our echo chamber site then leave.


Yeah, pretty much. Try any one of these:
-foxnews.com
-freerepublic.com
-reddit.com/r/Republican
-nro.com

// there are plenty of conservatives and Republicans around here, and many of them are great to engage in discussion
// whiners, on the other hand, need to adopt some Warrior Code and get the fark over it
 
2014-04-11 01:21:43 PM  
thedailyshow.mtvnimages.com

/oblig
 
2014-04-11 01:21:51 PM  

colon_pow: UncomfortableSilence: colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.

So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?

there will always be poor people.  some stay that way due to their choices.  others, through no fault of their own.  society should provide help for them, mostly widows and orphans.


and sick and handicapped and those who can't find a job simply because there's not enough of them to go round. of course if we were to spend money on jobs programs and had those people actually doing something for their assistance that would help. I'd much rather pay them for services rendered instead of doing nothing. at least we get some value out of it right?
 
2014-04-11 01:26:42 PM  
Wait, he's a DEMOCRAT?  Well, that changes EVERYTHING!  The Koch should definitely be allowed to do whatever they want and alter the face of how elections are run.  You know why?  Because a DEMOCRAT said something.

Done.  Ship it.  Pack it in.
 
2014-04-11 01:26:55 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion


Way to entirely miss the point, Bubba
 
2014-04-11 01:26:59 PM  
What they are doing isn't illegal.  THAT'S THE PROBLEM!  I don't believe in suppressing rights.  Those guys have the right to talk just as much as anyone else.  But what is horrible is because they are so shifty, they can speak without it being connected to them, AND they lie, AND they buy influence by supporting people and elevating them far beyond the merit of their ideas, AND the volume with which they sling their shiat makes it impossible to get a legitimate message through so only the bases participate.  Everyone is sick of this shiat.  Corporations are not people, these guys don't pay ENOUGH taxes and truly we will only be free once they die.
 
2014-04-11 01:29:05 PM  
Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.
 
2014-04-11 01:29:26 PM  
Nobody is saying (well, I'm not) that any laws are broken by wealthy donors, only that election financing is an area that needs more laws.

Agree or disagree as you please, but stop defending against attacks that aren't being made.
 
2014-04-11 01:29:46 PM  
The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.
 
2014-04-11 01:30:21 PM  

plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal.  THAT'S THE PROBLEM!  I don't believe in suppressing rights.  Those guys have the right to talk just as much as anyone else.  But what is horrible is because they are so shifty, they can speak without it being connected to them, AND they lie, AND they buy influence by supporting people and elevating them far beyond the merit of their ideas, AND the volume with which they sling their shiat makes it impossible to get a legitimate message through so only the bases participate.  Everyone is sick of this shiat.  Corporations are not people, these guys don't pay ENOUGH taxes and truly we will only be free once they die.


they won't die. they just pass it on to their crotchfruit or someone just like them. they will always be in abundance. what has to happen is enough people getting tired of their shiat to do something about it.
 
2014-04-11 01:32:01 PM  
This is one of my favorite illogical arguments. X is not illegal. Therefore, whoever does X should not be criticized.

Legal doesn't always mean moral or ethical.
 
2014-04-11 01:32:22 PM  

Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.


OpenSecrets.org only tracks money donated directly to candidates. Dark money, on the other hand, is untracked and tells a wildly different story re: relative spending. I find it interesting that your comment only focuses on the former, and completely ignores the latter.
 
2014-04-11 01:33:34 PM  

plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!


I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs.
 
2014-04-11 01:33:39 PM  

colon_pow: UncomfortableSilence: colon_pow: Marcus Aurelius: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: That makes their heinous actions acceptable for me.

What heinous actions?

Let's see, there's their efforts to prevent us from having single payer health care, their funding of climate change denialists, opposing the Affordable Care Act, giving money to the Tea Party, and opposing American workers right to organize.

That's the short list.

those are positions that are held by half the country.  are you unable to comprehend different points of view even if you don't agree with them?
i can comprehend the liberal point of view...

the country is blessed with abundant natural resources, we should all share the wealth, no one should be poor.

i don't agree with that as I believe that personal responsibility and ambition play a role in society, but still, i can see the point of view.

So you don't believe that no one should be poor or go hungry when we have the wealth in this country to make that a possibility or at least reduce the numbers significantly?

there will always be poor people.  some stay that way due to their choices.  others, through no fault of their own.  society should provide help for them, mostly widows and orphans.


Both sides agree that there should be personal responsibility taken, but there are a lot of external factors beyond ambition that affect people and prevent them from finding jobs or relegating them to making use of government programs.  We need social programs to help people.  Cutting and gutting those programs doesn't do anything to help those people though and the current crop of GOP ideas all revolve around doing precisely that.  I'd rather see some government waste than one child going hungry that didn't have to.

Cutting taxes for the wealthiest among us, those that can afford to clothe, feed, house, and afford excessive luxuries, doesn't do anything to help those that can't.  It never has.
 
2014-04-11 01:34:23 PM  
Gotta love how the only way this moran can justify the Koch brothers is by scraping the bottom of the reasoning barrel.  Seriously, the most favorable thing he can say is what they is technically not illegal.
 
2014-04-11 01:34:48 PM  

Saiga410: plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs.


*facepalm*
 
2014-04-11 01:35:59 PM  

Saiga410: plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs.


Yes, because that is the problem we're trying to discuss here.  It's definitely not the amount of purchased access that they get.  Definitely not the fact that corporations are treated like people in the eyes of the law and can similarly purchase access.
 
2014-04-11 01:36:20 PM  

qorkfiend: Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.

OpenSecrets.org only tracks money donated directly to candidates. Dark money, on the other hand, is untracked and tells a wildly different story re: relative spending. I find it interesting that your comment only focuses on the former, and completely ignores the latter.


Is it not what the directive is of the left - that donating money to candidates is creating a plutocracy?

And is the left somehow devoid of said dark money too?  I don't see how anything you said lessens my point at all.
 
2014-04-11 01:36:55 PM  

grumpfuff: A spokesman for Koch Industries, Steve Lombardo, told Politico that it was "about time" someone stood up for Charles and David Koch.


The poor, poor, oppressed Koch brothers.


They are so oppressed that one of them even had to write a Wall Street Journal editorial about how oppressed they are.

It is truly a sad day for America when a billionaire can't use his vast influence to destroy the middle class without someone pointing it out to them.
 
2014-04-11 01:37:35 PM  

kronicfeld: That was a pretty tepid "defense."

 
2014-04-11 01:37:38 PM  
It's not illegal to buy elected officials but it should be.
 
2014-04-11 01:38:16 PM  

Saiga410: plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs not give the money to me.


FIXED
 
2014-04-11 01:38:17 PM  

Deftoons: qorkfiend: Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.

OpenSecrets.org only tracks money donated directly to candidates. Dark money, on the other hand, is untracked and tells a wildly different story re: relative spending. I find it interesting that your comment only focuses on the former, and completely ignores the latter.

Is it not what the directive is of the left - that donating money to candidates is creating a plutocracy?

And is the left somehow devoid of said dark money too?  I don't see how anything you said lessens my point at all.


You know, you could just say you don't quite comprehend what the objection here is. No one would think any less of you.
 
2014-04-11 01:38:40 PM  

colon_pow: those are positions that are held by half the country


So if half the country jumped off a bridge....
 
2014-04-11 01:41:38 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Well I see stopping the single payer as a plus


You must own stock in health insurance companies.

With Citizens United, these jokers get a lot more free speech than the rest of us.  They bribe Congress to get their self serving laws passed.  Now if you and I were able to do that, I wouldn't be so sore about it.  As things are, we have a government of the corporations, run by the corporations, for the benefit of the corporations.

They don't need anyone defending them.
 
2014-04-11 01:42:26 PM  

Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.


bullshiat. lets not go back 25 years and fluff the numbers with cherry picked data. (also remember these "liberal" groups are unions representing millions of workers. not a handful of billionaires)
lets look at the last election and the trend that is going on.

for example
SEIU spent 70 million in 2012 they represent 2.1 million workers . that means that each worker has about "34 bucks worth of free speech"

Sheldon Adelson spent 42 million
Kochs spent upwards of 60 million
Meg Whitman spent 144 million
 
2014-04-11 01:42:26 PM  
"They're not breaking the law"

Well, he's not wrong.
 
2014-04-11 01:42:41 PM  
 
2014-04-11 01:43:48 PM  

Headso: It's not illegal to buy elected officials but it should be.


Money = speech so say the SCOTUS
 
2014-04-11 01:44:32 PM  

Kornchex: Go on....


single payer bad, stopping bad is good.

Kornchex: Yeah. Making billions of raping the environment is easily offset by token donations to universities that say it's bad. Six / Half Dozen right?


Raping the environment?
Fact:
"Koch employees have earned well over 700 awards for environmental, health and safety excellence since 2009, many of them from the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Safety and Health Administration. EPA officials have commended us for our "commitment to a cleaner environment" and called us "a model for other companies." "

Kornchex: Yeah. Fark the people who make them billions.


They're paying them arn't they? Yeah, providing jobs, that's a big fark you isn't it.

Kornchex: Giving money to crazies who deny science at every farking turn is the definition of wicked. They saw that when the teabaggers shut down the government last year. I was hoping they would have learned from their mistakes, but they clearly have not.


Questioning science is evil. ah yeah, that's what you're suppose to do. That is in fact what scientists do. Questioning is a good thing. You can call it denying if you wish I call it questioning. And there are some good questions out there.

Kornchex: Tell that to the millions living below the poverty line that are being screwed by the politicians that the Koch Bro's have bought. Go read the Ryan budget FFS.


One, the Kochs didn't buy anyone. Like the link I provide shows they arn't in the top 50. They are players but evil darklords they are not. Second, I read the Ryan budget and no where in there did he state that his goal was to starve poor people. Cut's in the growth of welfare programs do not starve people. And god forbid this plan cause some job growth and we can get more people to work.
 
2014-04-11 01:45:34 PM  
Or instead of complaining, you could go make a billion dollars of your own and contribute to what you believe in.
 
2014-04-11 01:45:52 PM  
"Don't hate the player, hate the game." ~RAND PAUL
 
2014-04-11 01:46:22 PM  

Deftoons: Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas


And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

I already know the answer to that.
 
2014-04-11 01:47:18 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Kornchex: Go on....

single payer bad, stopping bad is good.

Kornchex: Yeah. Making billions of raping the environment is easily offset by token donations to universities that say it's bad. Six / Half Dozen right?

Raping the environment?
Fact:
"Koch employees have earned well over 700 awards for environmental, health and safety excellence since 2009, many of them from the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Safety and Health Administration. EPA officials have commended us for our "commitment to a cleaner environment" and called us "a model for other companies." "

Kornchex: Yeah. Fark the people who make them billions.

They're paying them arn't they? Yeah, providing jobs, that's a big fark you isn't it.

Kornchex: Giving money to crazies who deny science at every farking turn is the definition of wicked. They saw that when the teabaggers shut down the government last year. I was hoping they would have learned from their mistakes, but they clearly have not.

Questioning science is evil. ah yeah, that's what you're suppose to do. That is in fact what scientists do. Questioning is a good thing. You can call it denying if you wish I call it questioning. And there are some good questions out there.

Kornchex: Tell that to the millions living below the poverty line that are being screwed by the politicians that the Koch Bro's have bought. Go read the Ryan budget FFS.

One, the Kochs didn't buy anyone. Like the link I provide shows they arn't in the top 50. They are players but evil darklords they are not. Second, I read the Ryan budget and no where in there did he state that his goal was to starve poor people. Cut's in the growth of welfare programs do not starve people. And god forbid this plan cause some job growth and we can get more people to work.


So which Koch brother are you?  Or are you just their PR guy?
 
2014-04-11 01:47:40 PM  

Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.


Who do they think they are? Unions?
 
2014-04-11 01:49:08 PM  

neversubmit: Saiga410: plewis: What they are doing isn't illegal. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

I agreee.  We do need to make it illegal for them to only give donations to the repubs not give the money to me.

FIXED


Potato, potahto
 
2014-04-11 01:49:34 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Like the link I provide shows they arn't in the top 50.


25 years ago Obama got zero dollars from unions or bankers.

he wasn't in the top gazillion in fundraising
 
2014-04-11 01:50:49 PM  
And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

Most rich people are that way because they worked hard and generally continue to do so.  A 'working' poor man somehow has better ideas about anything than a 'working' rich man?  I'd rather go with the guy who worked hard his life to be rich instead of the guy who never bothered to try and get out of his current situation and believes he needs to change the world for opportunity than himself.
 
2014-04-11 01:51:07 PM  

Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?


what have you got against workers having a say in govt?
 
2014-04-11 01:52:33 PM  

Gnaglor: And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

Most rich people are that way because they worked hard and generally continue to do so.  A 'working' poor man somehow has better ideas about anything than a 'working' rich man?  I'd rather go with the guy who worked hard his life to be rich instead of the guy who never bothered to try and get out of his current situation and believes he needs to change the world for opportunity than himself.


most poor people are working 40 hours a week asshole
 
2014-04-11 01:53:41 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Kornchex: Go on....

single payer bad, stopping bad is good.

Kornchex: Yeah. Making billions of raping the environment is easily offset by token donations to universities that say it's bad. Six / Half Dozen right?

Raping the environment?
Fact:
"Koch employees have earned well over 700 awards for environmental, health and safety excellence since 2009, many of them from the Environmental Protection Agency and Occupational Safety and Health Administration. EPA officials have commended us for our "commitment to a cleaner environment" and called us "a model for other companies." "

Kornchex: Yeah. Fark the people who make them billions.

They're paying them arn't they? Yeah, providing jobs, that's a big fark you isn't it.

Kornchex: Giving money to crazies who deny science at every farking turn is the definition of wicked. They saw that when the teabaggers shut down the government last year. I was hoping they would have learned from their mistakes, but they clearly have not.

Questioning science is evil. ah yeah, that's what you're suppose to do. That is in fact what scientists do. Questioning is a good thing. You can call it denying if you wish I call it questioning. And there are some good questions out there.

Kornchex: Tell that to the millions living below the poverty line that are being screwed by the politicians that the Koch Bro's have bought. Go read the Ryan budget FFS.

One, the Kochs didn't buy anyone. Like the link I provide shows they arn't in the top 50. They are players but evil darklords they are not. Second, I read the Ryan budget and no where in there did he state that his goal was to starve poor people. Cut's in the growth of welfare programs do not starve people. And god forbid this plan cause some job growth and we can get more people to work.


Had you pegged as having a bit more intellectual integrity than feeling the need to defend the Koch brothers and a budget that adds 400 billion to defence spending and repeals Obamacare.

Just goes to show.
 
2014-04-11 01:54:42 PM  
Hobodeluxe:There's plenty more hours in the week to work beyond 40.  Sounds like laziness to me.
 
2014-04-11 01:56:29 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?


They push for things like "safety regulations" or "wage increases" or "environmental protection", that cut into the profits of the Job Creating Ubermensch. They must be destroyed.
 
2014-04-11 01:57:26 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Deftoons: Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas

And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

I already know the answer to that.


I say the answer is both.  Humanity is capable of finding an agreeable middle ground.
 
2014-04-11 01:59:31 PM  

LordJiro: Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?

They push for things like "safety regulations" or "wage increases" or "environmental protection", that cut into the profits of the Job Creating Ubermensch. They must be destroyed.


Wouldn't have this problem if we could just employ children again.  They want to work, and their tiny bodies and hands can get into small spaces much easier than an adult and for far less money.
 
2014-04-11 02:01:24 PM  

Gnaglor: Hobodeluxe:There's plenty more hours in the week to work beyond 40.  Sounds like laziness to me.


What a profoundly sad comment.

Anyway, the point is not that millions of Americans work 40-hour weeks and fail to become wealthy. The point is that millions of Americans work 40-hour weeks and still can't feed their families.
 
2014-04-11 02:05:05 PM  
That they're not breaking the law doesn't preclude changing the law to make such doings unlawful henceforth. It does (with the constitutional prohibition on post facto laws) imply that they shouldn't be prosecuted for what they've already done. However, if what they're doing is sufficiently lousy, "they're not breaking the law" becomes an argument for doing something about them (changing the law to prohibit such lousiness) rather than against it.

Ceteris paribus, anyway -- presuming the law can be changed without consequences worse than the existing harm.
 
2014-04-11 02:06:45 PM  

qorkfiend: Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.

OpenSecrets.org only tracks money donated directly to candidates. Dark money, on the other hand, is untracked and tells a wildly different story re: relative spending. I find it interesting that your comment only focuses on the former, and completely ignores the latter.


Yep.  Take your half truths and lies else where Defttunes, you Kochsucker.  The Kochs are estimated do have spent at least 600 million during the 2012 election cycle, likely more.
 
2014-04-11 02:07:32 PM  

Deftoons: Marcus Aurelius: Deftoons: Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas

And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

I already know the answer to that.

I say the answer is both.  Humanity is capable of finding an agreeable middle ground.


Which is why we SHOULD have stronger unions, to give workers enough of a 'voice' to counteract the corporate influence. But we've been demonizing and demolishing unions for decades, and America continues to suffer for it.
 
2014-04-11 02:11:46 PM  

LordJiro: Deftoons: Marcus Aurelius: Deftoons: Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas

And would prefer the ideas of a working man, or the ideas of the guys that just gave you a check for $5000?

I already know the answer to that.

I say the answer is both.  Humanity is capable of finding an agreeable middle ground.

Which is why we SHOULD have stronger unions, to give workers enough of a 'voice' to counteract the corporate influence. But we've been demonizing and demolishing unions for decades, and America continues to suffer for it.


This.  Allowing the uberwealthy to spend unlimited funds is the antithesis of a "middle ground"
 
2014-04-11 02:19:52 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: So which Koch brother are you? Or are you just their PR guy?


I'm just curious on why all the hate lately. Hell I've got Wil Wheaton on Facebook and he has started in on them. Normally he isn't that hot headed. Is this just the flip side of Glenn Beck's Soros rage?

Tigger: Had you pegged as having a bit more intellectual integrity than feeling the need to defend the Koch brothers and a budget that adds 400 billion to defence spending and repeals Obamacare.

Just goes to show.



1) defense is one of the things our Federal government is suppose to spend money on. I personally think we spend a little too much, but those are good paying jobs we are supporting and we get something in return. So I dont rage too much about it.
2) Obamacare is bad so I'm ok with this. The really poor have always had medicaid. The longer this goes on the more I'm starting to believe that the Administration was just trying to find a way to funnel more money to the insurance companies. Make people sign up for healthplans they cant afford but have to have, increase taxes so the government pick up the rest. Send all the money to the insurance companies. Profit.

Unless the Koch Brothers suddenly got into the defense or insurance business I don't see how this proves their dark powers. But we've had a few good discussion and I wanted to answer your post.
 
2014-04-11 02:23:11 PM  
Did I mention he's also a Democrat?

Why do you think that matters, subby?
 
2014-04-11 02:27:16 PM  

whidbey: Did I mention he's also a Democrat?

Why do you think that matters, subby?


not subby!

But this is what I do. When the team criticizes one of their own I take notice or visa versa when they praise or defend someone that isn't on their team I take notice.
 
2014-04-11 02:27:17 PM  

Hobodeluxe: bullshiat. lets not go back 25 years and fluff the numbers with cherry picked data. (also remember these "liberal" groups are unions representing millions of workers. not a handful of billionaires)
lets look at the last election and the trend that is going on.

SEIU spent 70 million in 2012 they represent 2.1 million workers . that means that each worker has about "34 bucks worth of free speech"

Sheldon Adelson spent 42 million
Kochs spent upwards of 60 million
Meg Whitman spent 144 million


Even if we entertained your point about labor unions, those labor unions still literally DWARF those handful of billionaires with campaign contributions.   Multi-fold.

But it goes much more beyond labor unions - just like their Republican counterparts, many Democrats are also backed by big banks and lenders like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.  So spare the bullshiat yourself.

To further address those names you mentioned - Meg Whitman and Sheldon Anderson, look how that ended.  Dumping massive amounts of cash into an election does not guarantee victory. Meg Whitman lost to Jerry Brown.  Sheldon wasted millions of dollars on candidates that lost.

And lastly, those Koch Brothers spent $33 million on ads attacking Obama.  Last time I checked, Obama won re-election.  Once again - Koch Brothers may have a lot of money but they hardly the controlling factor as the left is trying to make people believe them to be.
 
2014-04-11 02:28:18 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


Funny thing about your link it doesn't say what programs they support at those Universities.  I mean if someone supported say Campus Crusade for Christ they could claim that they give money to every campus that there is a crusade on.  You could even fund a White People are just better bake sale, I mean a Young Republican bake sale and honestly say you are supporting the University that had the bake sale right?
 
2014-04-11 02:29:11 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: whidbey: Did I mention he's also a Democrat?

Why do you think that matters, subby?

not subby!

But this is what I do. When the team criticizes one of their own I take notice or visa versa when they praise or defend someone that isn't on their team I take notice.


I don't know if I find it amusing or disturbing that people consider political parties "teams."

What do you think, Drew?
 
2014-04-11 02:30:03 PM  

Deftoons: Once again - Koch Brothers may have a lot of money but they hardly the controlling factor as the left is trying to make people believe them to be.


lolwut

denial is a funny thing, man
 
2014-04-11 02:30:04 PM  

Danger Mouse: Dr Dreidel: Danger Mouse: Only 8 TPM articles linked to the echo chamber today?

/it's like one marathon circle jerk

No one's holding a second amendment solution to your head, Sunshine. Door's up there /, top-right of your window (top-right if you're an Apple).


Ahhh, don't like our echo chamber then leave.

/you got something right there, on your chin.


Look! Little tiny poopies all over the thread.


/as usual
 
2014-04-11 02:32:05 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!

Al Capone built orphanages and kept many people employed.


THIIIIIIS!

That's how groups like Hamas gain support from the regular folks.
Just more violence involved thereabouts.
 
2014-04-11 02:34:37 PM  
As a liberal, I am not surprised that there are dems or repubs who are honest and bipartisan.


Hopefully the leaders of both parties can follow this example.
 
2014-04-11 02:34:53 PM  

Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.


Call me when (R)'s have ideas other than repealing Obamacare, cutting social programs, raising taxes on the middle/poor classes and cutting taxes for the rich.
 
2014-04-11 02:35:54 PM  

Deftoons: And lastly, those Koch Brothers spent $33 million on ads attacking Obama. Last time I checked, Obama won re-election. Once again - Koch Brothers may have a lot of money but they hardly the controlling factor as the left is trying to make people believe them to be.


Everyone likes a boogieman to blame their troubles on. I have no problem with this. When it's someone in their basement blogging away or some guy telling a hippie what she needs to hear so he can get in her pants or some talk show host that wants to make sure you tune in next week, I'm fine with it . Blame away! But when it is senior United States Senator on the floor of Congress, well then it kind of worries me.
 
2014-04-11 02:37:35 PM  

TheMysticS: HotWingConspiracy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!

Al Capone built orphanages and kept many people employed.

THIIIIIIS!

That's how groups like Hamas gain support from the regular folks.
Just more violence involved thereabouts.


And giving money to the Tea Party is equal to having running gun battles in the streets?!
 
2014-04-11 02:38:46 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: grumpfuff: A spokesman for Koch Industries, Steve Lombardo, told Politico that it was "about time" someone stood up for Charles and David Koch.


The poor, poor, oppressed Koch brothers.

They are so oppressed that one of them even had to write a Wall Street Journal editorial about how oppressed they are.

It is truly a sad day for America when a billionaire can't use his vast influence to destroy the middle class without someone pointing it out to them.


"Help, help, I'm being oppressed!" - Rand Paul
 
2014-04-11 02:40:24 PM  

TheMysticS: HotWingConspiracy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!

Al Capone built orphanages and kept many people employed.

THIIIIIIS!

That's how groups like Hamas gain support from the regular folks.
Just more violence involved thereabouts.


And Philip Morris supported the arts, so all the idiots who oppose cancer, heart attacks and emphysema need to STFU.

/ sorry, that should be 'Altria' - lol, get it, like altruism?
 
2014-04-11 02:41:16 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?



The top political doners  (greater than the K bros ) are unions, which the democrats seem to have no problem with, however when the Kock brothers donate large somes, seems harry reid have a problem.

so if  the big union donations are ok., then you can't  be against what private citizens donate.
 
2014-04-11 02:43:08 PM  

suebhoney: Deftoons: The Koch Brothers influence is largely overblown by the left. OpenSecrets.org ranks Koch 59th in donations to candidates, parties & leadership PACs over the past 25 years. They gave $18 million, while the liberal groups ranked above them gave $1,089 million - 60x as much as Koch, and 2x as much as all conservatives combined. It's laughable to see various media outlets like the NY Times and the New Yorker put on their conspiracy helmets and claim these guys are the men behind the curtain running it all. They may have lots of money, but hardly the biggest controlling factor.

So yeah, criticizing the Koch Brothers would be a large waste of time and could backfire for the Dems.  Ultimately, politics should be a battle of ideas, not spending an excessive amount of time muckraking the fundraisers.

Call me when (R)'s have ideas other than repealing Obamacare, cutting social programs, raising taxes on the middle/poor classes and cutting taxes for the rich.


They also want to outlaw abortionrequire that women are fully informed about how developed the baby growing in their belly is before it is heartlessly ripped out.
 
2014-04-11 02:43:35 PM  

Danger Mouse: Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?


The top political doners  (greater than the K bros ) are unions, which the democrats seem to have no problem with, however when the Kock brothers donate large somes, seems harry reid have a problem.

so if  the big union donations are ok., then you can't  be against what private citizens donate.


So you don't understand how dark money works. There is an explanation further up the thread if you care to enlighten yourself.
 
2014-04-11 02:48:14 PM  

Danger Mouse: Hobodeluxe: Danger Mouse: Anenu: Of course they aren't breaking the law, they paid big money to have those laws changed so why would they break them.

Who do they think they are? Unions?

what have you got against workers having a say in govt?


The top political doners  (greater than the K bros ) are unions, which the democrats seem to have no problem with, however when the Kock brothers donate large somes, seems harry reid have a problem.

so if  the big union donations are ok., then you can't  be against what private citizens donate.



The Koch-backed network "raised at least $407 million during the 2012 campaign, according to the analysis of tax returns by The Washington Post and the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks money in politics," the story continued, adding:
"Unions plowed roughly $400 million into national, state and local elections in 2012."


30 seconds on Google found out you are wrong
 
2014-04-11 02:48:35 PM  

Deftoons: Hobodeluxe: bullshiat. lets not go back 25 years and fluff the numbers with cherry picked data. (also remember these "liberal" groups are unions representing millions of workers. not a handful of billionaires)
lets look at the last election and the trend that is going on.

SEIU spent 70 million in 2012 they represent 2.1 million workers . that means that each worker has about "34 bucks worth of free speech"

Sheldon Adelson spent 42 million
Kochs spent upwards of 60 million
Meg Whitman spent 144 million

Even if we entertained your point about labor unions, those labor unions still literally DWARF those handful of billionaires with campaign contributions.   Multi-fold.

But it goes much more beyond labor unions - just like their Republican counterparts, many Democrats are also backed by big banks and lenders like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.  So spare the bullshiat yourself.

To further address those names you mentioned - Meg Whitman and Sheldon Anderson, look how that ended.  Dumping massive amounts of cash into an election does not guarantee victory. Meg Whitman lost to Jerry Brown.  Sheldon wasted millions of dollars on candidates that lost.

And lastly, those Koch Brothers spent $33 million on ads attacking Obama.  Last time I checked, Obama won re-election.  Once again - Koch Brothers may have a lot of money but they hardly the controlling factor as the left is trying to make people believe them to be.


Just because it isn't guaranteed doesn't mean it's a good thing.
 
2014-04-11 03:02:10 PM  

Wendy's Chili: New rule: No "oh wait, did I say Republican?"-style headlines if the Senator in question is named Manchin, Landreau, McCaskill, Warner, or Pryor.


No need to list them, just say, "Any Democrat fearing voter backlash over Obamacare," and that'll cover it.
 
2014-04-11 03:07:58 PM  
Does anyone honestly think having this much money in politics, from either side of the aisle, is a good thing? It farking breeds corruption. I have never heard anyone make an argument for why it's beneficial, other than essentially "whatever it takes for my team to win!"

Unfortunately the supreme court gave the notion of reducing the influence of money in politics the middle finger with Citizens United...so any hope is now left to the legislative branch.  I wonder what their take is on this topic?  Oh, that's right:


www.jigzone.com


MOAR!


We're all farked...
 
2014-04-11 03:12:11 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: TheMysticS: HotWingConspiracy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!

Al Capone built orphanages and kept many people employed.

THIIIIIIS!

That's how groups like Hamas gain support from the regular folks.
Just more violence involved thereabouts.

And giving money to the Tea Party is equal to having running gun battles in the streets?!


Worse.
 
2014-04-11 03:18:42 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


Not so much donating to schools of higher learning as purchasing curricula. Wanna bet they're endowing a few professorships to specifically teach that special brand of Ludwig van Miese economics?

Their donations to PBS gave them the power of censorship. They're able to quash the broadcast of documentaries that offend their political sensitivities.
 
2014-04-11 03:21:34 PM  
"Did I mention he's also a Democrat?"

You never needed to. Douchebaggery is as douchebaggery does.
 
2014-04-11 03:32:43 PM  
Surprising to no one but Republicans whose only contact and knowledge of Democrats comes from talking to the liberals here on fark. Like an atheist opening up a Bible after years of knowing nothing about religion other than the peace on earth goodwill towards man song and dance he gets from his genuinely nice and compassionate Christian friend and read about all the rape, genocide, and slavery.
 
2014-04-11 03:33:40 PM  

Ned Stark: Like an atheist opening up a Bible after years of knowing nothing about religion other than the peace on earth goodwill towards man song and dance he gets from his genuinely nice and compassionate Christian friend and read about all the rape, genocide, and slavery.


Reading the Bible was one of the contributing factors to me becoming an atheist.
 
2014-04-11 03:34:31 PM  

grumpfuff: Ned Stark: Like an atheist opening up a Bible after years of knowing nothing about religion other than the peace on earth goodwill towards man song and dance he gets from his genuinely nice and compassionate Christian friend and read about all the rape, genocide, and slavery.

Reading the Bible was one of the contributing factors to me becoming an atheist.

HAHA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS! 

misread your comment, sorry
 
2014-04-11 03:39:36 PM  
BMulligan:  Who made the decision to start a family before having the proper finances to raise them as they would want to?
 
2014-04-11 03:44:53 PM  

Gnaglor: Who made the decision to start a family before having the proper finances to raise them as they would want to?


The white dudes who keep throwing roadblocks in front of people's access to birth control and abortions.
 
2014-04-11 03:53:23 PM  

whidbey: The Stealth Hippopotamus: whidbey: Did I mention he's also a Democrat?

Why do you think that matters, subby?

not subby!

But this is what I do. When the team criticizes one of their own I take notice or visa versa when they praise or defend someone that isn't on their team I take notice.

I don't know if I find it amusing or disturbing that people consider political parties "teams."

What do you think, Drew?


I consider political parties to be insane asylums
 
2014-04-11 03:58:51 PM  
Ya'all miss the point badly, defenders and criticizers alike.

The political money they spend is only part of the evil of the Koch brothers.

You really do need to take into account the huge (relatively speaking) number of think tanks, media outlets and Policy advocacy groups they fund that are intended to publish biased policy position papers, then their media then touts these positions without any critical analysis of them and from there the advocacy groups convince the easily duped public that these policy positions will be good for the country and lobbyists in Washington and in State houses will do the same with our politicians.

It ain't just the political donations, of which, as was pointed out above, the Kochs coordinated over 400 million in direct political giving, but it's the massive labyrinth of misinformation outlets they also control that convinces morons that tax breaks will increase revenue and deregulation of environmental and finance laws will be good for the nation.

It's so much more than just the network of donors the Koch brothers control, it's also the huge network of media and policy outlets that spreads their bile.

There isn't a more evil set of brothers in the known universe as far as I'm concerned.
 
2014-04-11 04:01:56 PM  

geoduck42: Gnaglor: Who made the decision to start a family before having the proper finances to raise them as they would want to?

The white dudes who keep throwing roadblocks in front of people's access to birth control and abortions.


That was easy...
 
2014-04-11 04:03:09 PM  

Gnaglor: BMulligan:  Who made the decision to start a family before having the proper finances to raise them as they would want to?


So you are in favor of Family Planning then, well I hope you like the Democratic Party because within 25 years and probably closer to 5 the Conservative Christians who make up a big part of the Republican party will be against all medical forms of birth control.
 
2014-04-11 04:10:46 PM  

grumpfuff: grumpfuff: Ned Stark: Like an atheist opening up a Bible after years of knowing nothing about religion other than the peace on earth goodwill towards man song and dance he gets from his genuinely nice and compassionate Christian friend and read about all the rape, genocide, and slavery.

Reading the Bible was one of the contributing factors to me becoming an atheist.HAHA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS! 

misread your comment, sorry


OMFG, my sides! Haven't heard that quote in a long time!
 
2014-04-11 04:14:44 PM  
So a "centrist" in the pockets of corporate oligarchs defends a different group of corporate oligarchs.  It's almost as if he has a vested interest in preserving the current system of a congress for sale.

/That's how wall street plays the game; whoever we vote for, they win.
 
2014-04-11 04:19:36 PM  

Tomahawk513: grumpfuff: grumpfuff: Ned Stark: Like an atheist opening up a Bible after years of knowing nothing about religion other than the peace on earth goodwill towards man song and dance he gets from his genuinely nice and compassionate Christian friend and read about all the rape, genocide, and slavery.

Reading the Bible was one of the contributing factors to me becoming an atheist.HAHA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS! 

misread your comment, sorry

OMFG, my sides! Haven't heard that quote in a long time!


I use it fairly frequently on Fark when I correct my own mistakes.

/bringing it back
 
2014-04-11 04:26:09 PM  

Drew: whidbey: The Stealth Hippopotamus: whidbey: Did I mention he's also a Democrat?

Why do you think that matters, subby?

not subby!

But this is what I do. When the team criticizes one of their own I take notice or visa versa when they praise or defend someone that isn't on their team I take notice.

I don't know if I find it amusing or disturbing that people consider political parties "teams."

What do you think, Drew?

I consider political parties to be insane asylums


I'll second that
 
2014-04-11 04:54:10 PM  
Where do people get the idea that billionaires need people to "stand up" for them?
 
2014-04-11 05:20:50 PM  
It is SO easy for the Koch brothers and their supporters to claim they are not breaking any laws after they spend untold millions to change the law to suit themselves, isn't it?

A fairer question would be to ask "Are they breaking a law which used to exist before they used unfair influence to change it to suit themselves?"

Obviously the answer would be Yes YES YES YES YES YESand YES!!!
 
2014-04-11 06:09:15 PM  

Wendy's Chili: New rule: No "oh wait, did I say Republican?"-style headlines if the Senator in question is named Manchin, Landreau, McCaskill, Warner, or Pryor.


AFP is, and has been, running ads aginst Landreau. the DSCC has taken to running ads against AFP and the Kochs.
 
2014-04-11 06:24:21 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-11 06:26:04 PM  

vonster: [img.fark.net image 700x666]


weak.  2/10.  try again.
 
2014-04-11 06:54:08 PM  

vonster: [img.fark.net image 700x666]


colon_pow likes that one.
 
2014-04-11 08:23:58 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


Every last bit of that is complete horse shiat. My dad worked at their refineries in Corpus Christi and they would have benzene leaks for months on end, flare well past their legally allowed time, and employed thugs to photograph people attending the employee meetings where they would vote on unionizing. They would then approach those people and threaten them with reduced hours, loss of medical benefits or outright termination.
 
2014-04-11 08:34:34 PM  
You mean the same Joe Manchin who is going after Zohydro because drugs are bad, but his daughter is CEO of Mylan?
 
2014-04-11 10:44:09 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I love it when honest and successful business man needs to be "defended" because he dares have a political opinion. 'mercia!

Award winning safety? Employer of union labor?! Tried to end a government subsidy they benefited from?! (can't link to WSJ you'll have to look it up)

And lets not talk about all the universities they support!! Those vile bastards!!


WTF is wrong with you?
 
2014-04-12 09:38:51 AM  

spongeboob: The Koch-backed network "raised at least $407 million during the 2012 campaign, according to the analysis of tax returns by The Washington Post and the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks money in politics," the story continued, adding:


What a horrible conclusion to that "fact check".  Since the two Koch brothers spent $407 million and the unions spent $400 million, it's really a wash, and no one should criticize them.  I understand it's a Gannett Company editorial, but wow.
 
Displayed 176 of 176 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report