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(CNN)   After nearly 17 years, the Bundy family is back for a new episode of Married With Children entitled "Showdown at Virgin Valley"   (cnn.com) divider line 89
    More: Dumbass, Married... with Children, Ted Bundy, Southern Nevada, grazing rights, Old West  
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8953 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Apr 2014 at 9:21 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-11 10:12:08 AM

LibertyHiller: DrBenway: Skarekrough: STRYPERSWINE: His claim to the land PREDATES THE EXISTENCE of the BLM.

No one likes imminent domain either but it's a fact of life and it happens.

You either work out an agreement or expect consequences.

It's not really an imminent domain issue, is it? He never owned it, he's just been using it. And he's had 30 years to find an alternative to using it for free.

No, but it is an imminent issue of eminent domain.


I am grateful for a correction from such an eminent grammarian. Your check will arrive imminently. See? Are children our learning.
 
2014-04-11 10:12:54 AM
img.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-11 10:13:04 AM

Deep Contact: The feds own 80% of Nevada. WTF!


Yup, that's how it worked in most of the country (gross simplification follows):

1) US came in, signed "treaties" with the local tribes and assumed title to the land.

2) Depending on which iteration of the Public Lands acts was in force, homesteaders migrated to the area and filed claims with the US Land Office (or other authority as provided for).

3) After the claim was "proven" (permanent occupation, usually requiring a cabin and some cultivation for 5-10 years) the US would deed the property to the homesteader.

Now, once you get past the 100th meridian, this model falls apart in a hurry. For some reason, homesteaders figured Nevada to be a barren wasteland and looked elsewhere. That left Nevada to the miners, ranchers and Mormons.
 
2014-04-11 10:17:54 AM

Skarekrough: LibertyHiller: STRYPERSWINE: His claim to the land PREDATES THE EXISTENCE of the BLM.

Too bad it doesn't predate the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, then he's have a case.


DrBenway: Skarekrough: STRYPERSWINE: His claim to the land PREDATES THE EXISTENCE of the BLM.

No one likes imminent domain either but it's a fact of life and it happens.

You either work out an agreement or expect consequences.

It's not really an imminent domain issue, is it? He never owned it, he's just been using it. And he's had 30 years to find an alternative to using it for free.

No, but it is an imminent issue of eminent domain.

Whatever.  I'm at work and they took away French benefits like free coffee so I'm doing the best I can with what I have.

/thanks for the correction though
//no snark, I do appreciate it and will try and remember it next time I reference it.


Happy to be of service, especially when I can share a mnemonic.
 
2014-04-11 10:18:19 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Wouldn't it be nice if the feds used this kind of man power to protect our border?


It would be nicer still if you knew what the fark you were talking about.
 
2014-04-11 10:21:01 AM

DrBenway: Cold_Sassy: TNel: Cold_Sassy: I've been following this and actually the guy's family has been grazing cattle on that land before the BLM was ever invented. They should have grandfathered him in.

Say what?!  He's making money off of that land and you want him to get a free pass?!  He can graze his cattle on his own land.

Yeah, he gets a free pass along with all the other welfare/free needle/food stamp crowd.  So what makes him any less worthy?

Damn, when you go for the false equivalencies, you really swing for the fences, don't you?


Fark yeah, brother!
 
2014-04-11 10:23:41 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Wouldn't it be nice if the feds used this kind of man power to protect our border?


Exactly.
 
2014-04-11 10:25:37 AM
Regardless of the Feds, the fees and the ranchers, subby max failed for trying to relate this to a blue collar family from 1980/90s Chicago. Seriously, subby, you suck!
 
2014-04-11 10:27:41 AM
Another fine example of why we need MORE government.
 
2014-04-11 10:35:10 AM
So when child labor was barred, were the companies abusing it grandfathered in?

He's had free use out of the land for far too long. Maybe I wouldn't go so far as to charge him for 30 years of back fees, but if he's gonna thumb his nose and act like the feds can't do anything then he's in for a rude surprise. Seize his livestock, auction 'em off for whatever's easy to collect, probably far undervalued, and apply the proceeds to his usage fees. Repeat as necessary.
 
2014-04-11 10:44:32 AM

Cold_Sassy: jehovahs witness protection: Wouldn't it be nice if the feds used this kind of man power to protect our border?

Exactly.


So mooching and freeloading is ok for this person because another stretch of land isn't being protected enough?  So that means all "welfare queens" get a pass also.

You cool with that?
 
2014-04-11 10:46:59 AM
Just turn it into another missile test range and see how well he keeps his cattle off the land.
 
2014-04-11 10:53:30 AM

TNel: Cold_Sassy: jehovahs witness protection: Wouldn't it be nice if the feds used this kind of man power to protect our border?

Exactly.

So mooching and freeloading is ok for this person because another stretch of land isn't being protected enough?  So that means all "welfare queens" get a pass also.

You cool with that?


This! He's been allowed for thirty years to leach off the feds. Why should he get a pass on that? Economically it unfairly hurts other ranchers who play by the rules. He needs to get bootstrappy and get off the government teat.
 
2014-04-11 11:15:35 AM
A couple of observations from a local:

1.  Bundy's rights were converted to privileges and then taken from him.
2.  Bundy tried to pay the fees but they would not take the money.
3.  The cows are being kicked off to protect the endangered desert tortoise.
4.  Cows and desert tortoise co-exist very well.  The tortoise do BETTER when cows are around.
5.  Environmentalist group threatened to sue the BLM to force them to remove cows.
6.  The environmental groups do not know or care what actually happens on the range  it is just a big fund raiser for them.
7.  If you give money to a random environmental group without knowing what they will do, you are an idiot.
8.  The BLM has spent 2 million dollars on this round-up of 600 cows,
9.  Just about 60 miles away are 1000 wild horses that are in-bread, in poor health, damaging the range,overpopulating and starving,
10. It is the responsibility of the BLM to take care of the wild horses.  They claim to not have the money.
11. The law is not on Bundy's side and he will lose.
12. Many laws came about because environmental groups are funded by people who THINK they are helping.
13. Can we make Washington DC a wilderness area and remove all the non-native species?
 
2014-04-11 11:20:38 AM

SL5M7: 11. The law is not on Bundy's side and he will lose.


That is all that matters.  He has lost 2 different court battles yet he refuses to comply and refuses to pay his obligations.  He's almost like those dead beat dads that are ordered to pay child support but wont.

Why can't he pay his bills like everyone else?
 
2014-04-11 11:22:13 AM
5,000 militia members on their way to tell the government to fark off.  If only there was this show of force on the actual border....
 
2014-04-11 11:48:02 AM

STRYPERSWINE: 5,000 militia members on their way to tell the government to fark off.  If only there was this show of force on the actual border....


...by 5,000 militia members on their way to tell the government to fark off? I thought militia members were on the border because they think there isn't enough government there.
 
2014-04-11 11:57:34 AM

DrBenway: STRYPERSWINE: 5,000 militia members on their way to tell the government to fark off.  If only there was this show of force on the actual border....

...by 5,000 militia members on their way to tell the government to fark off? I thought militia members were on the border because they think there isn't enough government there.


They're working against us instead of for us.
 
2014-04-11 12:11:29 PM

Walker: While this family may be nuts, I'm not keen on this made up by the Feds "First Amendment Zone" thing. Last time I checked the whole country was a First Amendment Zone.


We don't like talk like that around here, better watch out before you get on the list of "can't be arrested easily by local authority" and a drone strike is called in.
 
2014-04-11 12:15:05 PM

STRYPERSWINE: DrBenway: STRYPERSWINE: 5,000 militia members on their way to tell the government to fark off.  If only there was this show of force on the actual border....

...by 5,000 militia members on their way to tell the government to fark off? I thought militia members were on the border because they think there isn't enough government there.

They're working against us instead of for us.


Militia members? Yeah, no kidding.
 
2014-04-11 12:26:15 PM
They don't like feds? Fine. Have the Nevada National Guard go push them out of the way. If they decide to pursue a "Second Amendment solution," and water the tree of liberty, then shoot their sorry asses. That would improve the gene pool and raise the national average IQ.
 
2014-04-11 12:31:34 PM
"grazing illegally on public lands in Clark County for more than 20 years"

"owes U.S. taxpayers more than $1 million in unpaid grazing fees"

Yeah its the meal ole' gubmint who are the ones being assholes here.
 
2014-04-11 12:35:23 PM
It sounds like these assholes attacked and assaulted police officers and aside from a couple of taser shots the police just went home?

Any guesses how this would play out if some black/Hispanic folks tried this bullshiat?
 
2014-04-11 12:37:26 PM
Dimensio:
Mr. Bundy is trying a classic gambit: he is hoping that the government will summon him to a court that displays a flag with a gold fringe, which will result in any and all charges against him being null and void due to the admiralty court's lack of jurisdiction.

Ive read and re-read this argument several times but my brain rejects the derp.  What the hell is the reason behind the OMG GOLD FRINGE argument that sovereign citizens use?
 
2014-04-11 12:43:20 PM

The Southern Logic Company: Dimensio:
Mr. Bundy is trying a classic gambit: he is hoping that the government will summon him to a court that displays a flag with a gold fringe, which will result in any and all charges against him being null and void due to the admiralty court's lack of jurisdiction.

Ive read and re-read this argument several times but my brain rejects the derp.  What the hell is the reason behind the OMG GOLD FRINGE argument that sovereign citizens use?


They are insane and/or stupid.
 
2014-04-11 12:46:19 PM

The Southern Logic Company: Dimensio:
Mr. Bundy is trying a classic gambit: he is hoping that the government will summon him to a court that displays a flag with a gold fringe, which will result in any and all charges against him being null and void due to the admiralty court's lack of jurisdiction.

Ive read and re-read this argument several times but my brain rejects the derp.  What the hell is the reason behind the OMG GOLD FRINGE argument that sovereign citizens use?


According to the sovereign cititards, gold fringe is used by military flags, not civilian flags. Therefore military flags in courtrooms means that the court is an illegal military court. The term dates back to the admiralty courts used in the colonies by the British.
 
2014-04-11 12:58:45 PM

Deep Contact: The feds own 80% of Nevada. WTF!


So then how shall we proceed from here?  If that land belongs to us, the people, then if the Federal government disposes of it, should it not ensure that we, the people get a fair price for it?  Or should we, the people just give the land away?

Difficulty:  If we, the people just give the land away, you know damn well it won't be the common clay of the new West that gets it.
 
2014-04-11 01:00:16 PM

Walker: While this family may be nuts, I'm not keen on this made up by the Feds "First Amendment Zone" thing. Last time I checked the whole country was a First Amendment Zone.


Funny, that's what a bunch of us said during the Bush (II) administration.
 
2014-04-11 01:02:34 PM
 
2014-04-11 01:07:41 PM

Deep Contact: The feds own 80% of Nevada. WTF!


That land was acquired from Mexico by the federal government.  Who should it belong to?  The Paiute, Shoshone, and Washoe?
 
2014-04-11 01:30:36 PM
So how much has the government spent to collect the $1mil in back fees that this guy owes?

Cue someone pointing out that the government will deal with bovine aggression, but will give Russia a free pass to invade sovereign countries in 3...2...1...
 
2014-04-11 02:53:53 PM

Bad Man Jose: So how much has the government spent to collect the $1mil in back fees that this guy owes?

Cue someone pointing out that the government will deal with bovine aggression, but will give Russia a free pass to invade sovereign countries in 3...2...1...


Our judicial system is expensive.  Would you rather we just let criminals off the hook?  Mind you, in this case, using the asset forfeiture laws to take his property might be an option since it's being used in a criminal enterprise.
 
2014-04-11 03:11:31 PM

flondrix: Deep Contact: The feds own 80% of Nevada. WTF!

That land was acquired from Mexico by the federal government.  Who should it belong to?  The Paiute, Shoshone, and Washoe?


What are those? Some kind of Indians?
 
2014-04-11 03:22:31 PM

SL5M7: 1.  Bundy's rights were converted to privileges and then taken from him.


Care to explain this?

STRYPERSWINE: DrBenway: STRYPERSWINE: 5,000 militia members on their way to tell the government to fark off.  If only there was this show of force on the actual border....

...by 5,000 militia members on their way to tell the government to fark off? I thought militia members were on the border because they think there isn't enough government there.

They're working against us instead of for us.


WTF are you biatching about? Seriously. WTF, man, you're inchoate ramblings about border security are borderline absurd.
 
2014-04-11 03:52:30 PM
The funny thing is that the people who are supporting this guy's right to use government resources for 20 years without paying for them will scream and holler that people on unemployment are leeches. Or scream that people who are getting government assistance are leeches.
 
2014-04-11 04:54:14 PM
They're filming it on Fark?
 
2014-04-11 06:45:43 PM

Klath: Bad Man Jose: So how much has the government spent to collect the $1mil in back fees that this guy owes?

Cue someone pointing out that the government will deal with bovine aggression, but will give Russia a free pass to invade sovereign countries in 3...2...1...

Our judicial system is expensive.  Would you rather we just let criminals off the hook?  Mind you, in this case, using the asset forfeiture laws to take his property might be an option since it's being used in a criminal enterprise.


No, but much as I don't believe we should spend millions of dollars to incarcerate non-violent criminals, spending millions of dollars and sending helicopters and armed Federal troops (who knew the BLM had an army?) to stop this guy from letting his cows eat federal grass seems a bit heavy handed
 
2014-04-11 06:46:52 PM

Bad Man Jose: Klath: Bad Man Jose: So how much has the government spent to collect the $1mil in back fees that this guy owes?

Cue someone pointing out that the government will deal with bovine aggression, but will give Russia a free pass to invade sovereign countries in 3...2...1...

Our judicial system is expensive.  Would you rather we just let criminals off the hook?  Mind you, in this case, using the asset forfeiture laws to take his property might be an option since it's being used in a criminal enterprise.

No, but much as I don't believe we should spend millions of dollars to incarcerate non-violent criminals, spending millions of dollars and sending helicopters and armed Federal troops (who knew the BLM had an army?) to stop this guy from letting his cows eat federal grass seems a bit heavy handed


Should have said non-violent drug criminals such as a guy who gets busted with an ounce of pot.
 
2014-04-11 07:03:35 PM
Deep Contact: The feds own 80% of Nevada. WTF!

Flondrix: That land was acquired from Mexico by the federal government. Who[m] should it belong to? The Paiute, Shoshone, and Washoe?

To the guys with the guns, obviously.
 
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