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(Daily Mail)   Just look at the mall rats scurrying around the decks of the deserted shopping malls of America   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 178
    More: Interesting, shopping centers  
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18342 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2014 at 10:36 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



178 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-10 08:40:19 PM  
That's going to be downtown Scranton in about 10 years
 
2014-04-10 08:46:02 PM  
I see those pictures and think I should become a scrap metal thief.  I could make a fortune off those escalators.
 
2014-04-10 08:48:26 PM  

Earguy: I see those pictures and think I should become a scrap metal thief.  I could make a fortune off those escalators.


They aren't exactly made out of platinum you know.  After 4 years being closed, anything valuable enough to warrant the work involved in getting is has been gotten.
 
2014-04-10 09:00:39 PM  

nekom: Earguy: I see those pictures and think I should become a scrap metal thief.  I could make a fortune off those escalators.

They aren't exactly made out of platinum you know.  After 4 years being closed, anything valuable enough to warrant the work involved in getting is has been gotten.


I'm frankly surprised at the startling lack of graffiti and the amount of unbroken plate glass.
 
2014-04-10 09:43:39 PM  
i.dailymail.co.uk

And there's the map of Australia.
 
2014-04-10 09:43:39 PM  
The malls in Tampa and LA are always packed. Sucks to be Ohio I guess.
 
2014-04-10 09:48:09 PM  

Mugato: The malls in Tampa and LA are always packed. Sucks to be Ohio I guess.


Well it is Ohio.
 
2014-04-10 09:59:30 PM  
Mall rats desert sinking ship

It's not a ship, it's a sailboat!
 
2014-04-10 10:12:52 PM  

DownDaRiver: That's going to be downtown Scranton in about 10 years


Just hasn't been the same since Michael Scott left
 
2014-04-10 10:18:56 PM  

Mugato: The malls in Tampa and LA are always packed. Sucks to be Ohio I guess.


I don't know if the deserted malls are a sign of the decline of the economy as the article suggests, or merely evidence of how our country reacts to economic troubles.

In places where land is plentiful and cheap, neighborhoods and towns that fall on hard times often aren't given the opportunity to recover.  It's cheaper to build new subdivisions and commercial centers a few dozen miles down the road than try to rescue and rehabilitate struggling communities.

The stories of rough neighborhoods turning the corner and becoming thriving communities again mostly come from big cities where land is still at a premium and it's worth the effort to bring things back again.  Plus, cities tend to have more diverse economies, so they can weather the storm of recession whereas single-industry towns have nothing to fall back on when that industry goes tits up.
 
2014-04-10 10:19:01 PM  

Mugato: The malls in Tampa and LA are always packed. Sucks to be Ohio I guess.


Did you just brag about your favorite locality's malls being packed?

Thanks world, give me a moment while I chew this cyanide pill I have been saving just for an occasion such as this.
 
2014-04-10 10:22:14 PM  
gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com
 
2014-04-10 10:31:41 PM  
The new Oldsmobiles are in early this year...
 
2014-04-10 10:33:42 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: DownDaRiver: That's going to be downtown Scranton in about 10 years

Just hasn't been the same since Michael Scott left


They still attempt to resurrect 'The Office' kiosk once a year at the mall
 
2014-04-10 10:40:32 PM  
Brenda?
 
2014-04-10 10:42:27 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-10 10:42:40 PM  
Our headquarters is an old shopping mall.  We have 1.2 million square feet and got it cheap.  It's pretty cool, there are escalators and it's obvious it used to be a mall.  I think the next phase to open will have the fountains and little rivers.  We recycled over 17,000 tons of metal, and all the glass storefronts are used for doors to meeting rooms, etc.  pretty good use for them, I think other companies are looking into it.
 
2014-04-10 10:43:28 PM  
Looks like a Dawn of the Dead (Day of the Dead?) set, but then again every mall looks like one of those sets.
 
2014-04-10 10:44:44 PM  
Ah yes, Rolling Acres and Randall Mall. Two shining examples of why I want out of Ohio
 
2014-04-10 10:45:22 PM  

Harry_Seldon: Brenda?


Dick!
 
2014-04-10 10:45:28 PM  
Looks like the mall from Tony Hawk Pro Skater number something.
 
2014-04-10 10:45:44 PM  
The Simpsons already did it.

And it's not all a sign of a collective decline. It's a sign that shopping moved away from these malls. Although if I were running a mall store I'd only be open evenings and weekends most of the year.

That might be a generalizable statement. A lot of stores are open all day while their customers are at work.
 
2014-04-10 10:45:50 PM  

jaylectricity: Mall rats desert sinking ship

It's not a ship, it's a sailboat!


Actually, it's a schooner
 
2014-04-10 10:46:10 PM  

nekom: Earguy: I see those pictures and think I should become a scrap metal thief.  I could make a fortune off those escalators.

They aren't exactly made out of platinum you know.  After 4 years being closed, anything valuable enough to warrant the work involved in getting is has been gotten.


Actually, not even then. It would have literally had to be unstealable in some fashion.
 
2014-04-10 10:46:21 PM  

The Dogs of War: Ah yes, Rolling Acres and Randall Mall. Two shining examples of why I want out of Ohio


So what is it about Ohio that makes people want out so bad they become astronauts?
 
2014-04-10 10:47:05 PM  
If you clean it up and keep quiet about it that would be a great place to skate in the winter.
 
2014-04-10 10:48:16 PM  
Randall Park was my mall growing up. Lots of memories there being with my family at Christmas, going on dates with my girlfriend in High School, dropping all my paper route money at the arcade, checking out all the cool HO gauge stuff at the hobby store that looked like a train car. Good Times. So sad that it's officially going away. Years ago I took a slow nostalgic trip through and pretty much knew it'd be the last time I'd be in there.
 
2014-04-10 10:49:21 PM  
This is a mall with rats scurrying about Subby.
awscdn.streetauthority.net
 
2014-04-10 10:50:44 PM  
the mall here died when all the stores bought their own land to build a 'lifestyle center' instead of leasing from general growth

it's like an empty tomb now

it was wall to wall commercialism and thronged with shoppers not even ten years ago.
 
2014-04-10 10:51:10 PM  
www.kcet.orgI will miss Perry's Pizza the most.
 
2014-04-10 10:51:23 PM  
A loaf of bread dumped on the floor. An elevated position and my 10-22 Archangel. Good times!
 
2014-04-10 10:51:32 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: nekom: Earguy: I see those pictures and think I should become a scrap metal thief.  I could make a fortune off those escalators.

They aren't exactly made out of platinum you know.  After 4 years being closed, anything valuable enough to warrant the work involved in getting is has been gotten.

I'm frankly surprised at the startling lack of graffiti and the amount of unbroken plate glass.


This. Usually, you leave a group of people unwatched for more than a few minutes and they'll turn into barbarians.
 
2014-04-10 10:52:33 PM  
Yea I don't particularly understand this mindset that this is a sign of economic decline.

All the businesses moved to open air structures, or moved to more modern mall facilities.

Note how all of your Anytown, USA "pathetic abandoned malls" were all built 30-40 years ago without any renovation afterwards.
 
2014-04-10 10:52:46 PM  

Intrepid00: The Dogs of War: Ah yes, Rolling Acres and Randall Mall. Two shining examples of why I want out of Ohio

So what is it about Ohio that makes people want out so bad they become astronauts?


lol, no idea. Something about this state just beats you down until you can't take it. Most of my friends have left the state. it's rather depressing. Both of these malls are within an hour of me.
 
2014-04-10 10:52:55 PM  

cretinbob: [gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com image 477x277]


that's not a schooner
 
2014-04-10 10:54:33 PM  
Those would make some of the best paintball arenas ever! Seriously, address any structural instabilities, clear out the glass, and then gimme gimme gimme!
 
2014-04-10 10:54:51 PM  
From TFA:

'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,'


This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were.

Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more.

FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.
 
2014-04-10 10:56:39 PM  

optikeye: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x562]

And there's the map of Australia.


I thought the exact same thing when I scrolled past that one. Even though its Australianess declines severely whilst under scrutiny.
 
2014-04-10 10:56:42 PM  
The Britons are just sad they didn't create Amazon and eBay.
 
2014-04-10 10:58:07 PM  
media.tumblr.com
RIP Taquito.
 
2014-04-10 10:58:28 PM  

The Dogs of War: Intrepid00: The Dogs of War: Ah yes, Rolling Acres and Randall Mall. Two shining examples of why I want out of Ohio

So what is it about Ohio that makes people want out so bad they become astronauts?

lol, no idea. Something about this state just beats you down until you can't take it. Most of my friends have left the state. it's rather depressing. Both of these malls are within an hour of me.


I lasted 6 months in Cleveland and it got so depressing that I moved to Pittsburgh.

Let that sink in.
 
2014-04-10 10:59:14 PM  
Grew up not far from Vandal Randall Mall when I was a kid in the '80s. Saw the original "Star Wars" there for the first time in 1977 (and the second through tenth times, too). Used to play in the game room on Saturdays and shop there for school clothes with mom and at Christmas. It was never in a great part of town, but for a while, it was the biggest, most state-of-the-art mall in the world and we were kind of proud of that. There was a legend that so many cars were stolen there that they once put out a bait car that was gone before they could get up on the roof to watch it.

That whole area is really shiatty now. There's a Hard Rock Cafe/Horseshoe Casino/Thistledown horse track across the street that's trying to make the area come back, but it'll be a long time coming. Mostly the area looks like downtown Beruit now.

So sad.
 
2014-04-10 10:59:15 PM  

Walt_Jizzney: FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.


As do roughly 1,100 malls in all 50 states and Puerto Rico. Your point?
 
2014-04-10 11:02:19 PM  
Malls are dead.  I'm so sick of my city trying to "reinvigorate" our mall.  I think they're spending $50 million on a 3rd attempt to resuscitate it.  I mean, I am spending $50 million for it.  Fark that.

The tax revenue from the mall has fallen every year since 2003 and that was only a small uptick in an otherwise consistent decline.  It will take at least 25 years to recover my tax dollars that are being funneled to a corrupt developer.

Even Radio Shack and Orange Julius have fled the mall.  The only reason I ever went anyway is for a gyro, but as promised that place closed too.  The owner told me he would close as soon as his lease was up on my penultimate visit to the mall.

I love the press it is getting though.  My local newspaper recently asked a bunch of people what stores they wanted to see there.  A bunch of retailers were mentioned and every single one of them that the local news asked said they have no plans to open anything there, but a few said "maybe".

Gone are the days when the mall attracted people from far and wide.

Note to self:  Don't vote for the real estate developer for city council.
 
2014-04-10 11:02:41 PM  
I think it's a combination of things that have led to the decline of malls.

1. People shopping at Walmart instead of the big stores like Sears that were always half the square footage of malls.

2. Video arcades, and hanging out in general, no longer bringing in teenagers, who now play video games at home.

3. Everyone doing a lot of their shopping online now instead of at the mall.
 
2014-04-10 11:04:16 PM  
I have friends from Ohio. Three of them have returned after many years of living it up in NYC. And I suspect a couple of other friends will be returning, as well.
 
2014-04-10 11:06:51 PM  
There aren't less stores or less stuff being sold, it just isn't sold at these malls.  What kills a mall is typically a newer mall opening somewhere else.
 
2014-04-10 11:09:07 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-10 11:10:59 PM  
Randall Park Mall - "Now that's a name I've not heard for a long time". So glad I moved away from NE Ohio in '05 when it was still possible to find a buyer for my house. Even then, the guy who bought it planned to rent it out.
 
2014-04-10 11:12:30 PM  

CruJones: There aren't less stores or less stuff being sold, it just isn't sold at these malls.  What kills a mall is typically a newer mall opening somewhere else.




Internet shopping might be negatively effecting malls as well.
 
2014-04-10 11:12:44 PM  

Walt_Jizzney: From TFA:

'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,'


This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were.

Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more.

FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.



It's because those areas became very attractive and successful.  Same thing happened to Euclid Square mall and is now happening to Great Lakes mall in Mentor now.  It soon shall be closed.
 
2014-04-10 11:14:04 PM  

Mugato: The malls in Tampa and LA are always packed. Sucks to be Ohio I guess.


Was going to say, the malls around me are all spending massively to expand A.F.A.P.
 
2014-04-10 11:14:59 PM  

CruJones: There aren't less stores or less stuff being sold, it just isn't sold at these malls.  What kills a mall is typically a newer mall opening somewhere else.



Yeah,  it's either what you said, or a declining middle class in the middle of a decade long recession.
 
2014-04-10 11:15:47 PM  
It's not the economy.

It's that Mall's were like mechanical bulls.
We're over it.
 
2014-04-10 11:16:16 PM  
While my local mall, despite being known for being a bit white trashy, is doing rather well, to the point of making strip malls in it's parking lots. Also I live in Minnesota so we got the Mall of America, and that just got a 325 million dollar budget to make larger, and is going to have a second hotel added to it. Pretty much it's working to be an 80's cyberpunk mall.
 
2014-04-10 11:17:07 PM  
The owner's should get a bunch of people in Hollywood grade Zombie costumes, and charge people to escape the Zombie apocalypse.
 
2014-04-10 11:17:09 PM  

f150: The new Oldsmobiles are in early this year...


This place has got everything!
 
2014-04-10 11:17:20 PM  
Once again The Mail seems awfully concerned about what's going on all the way over in America.
 
2014-04-10 11:17:28 PM  
gamerssphere.com
Just made me think of The Last of Us: Left Behind
 
2014-04-10 11:19:14 PM  
Wouldn't they make the best paintball arenas?
 
2014-04-10 11:23:34 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Mugato: The malls in Tampa and LA are always packed. Sucks to be Ohio I guess.

I don't know if the deserted malls are a sign of the decline of the economy as the article suggests, or merely evidence of how our country reacts to economic troubles.

In places where land is plentiful and cheap, neighborhoods and towns that fall on hard times often aren't given the opportunity to recover.  It's cheaper to build new subdivisions and commercial centers a few dozen miles down the road than try to rescue and rehabilitate struggling communities.

The stories of rough neighborhoods turning the corner and becoming thriving communities again mostly come from big cities where land is still at a premium and it's worth the effort to bring things back again.  Plus, cities tend to have more diverse economies, so they can weather the storm of recession whereas single-industry towns have nothing to fall back on when that industry goes tits up.


Plus, malls like this have fallen out of favor in general. New malls are being built as several buildings in a large commercial development that also has office space and maybe some residential space.
 
2014-04-10 11:23:44 PM  
December at the malls is a living Hell. Not necessarily because of all the shoppers but because in December these fly-by-night outfits open up a mini-kiosk in the middle of the aisles from November 15th-Jan. 2nd. From the dinky but overpriced Hickory Farms crap in a large box of Easter Grass to slice-your-eyballs-out RC Helicopters to PUSHY salespeople selling questionable cosmetics that lock onto you and won't leave you be even when you tell them a polite No Thank You.

I'd rather trudge out into a frozen parking lot having to go each time from individual store to store than endure the malls in December.
 
2014-04-10 11:24:14 PM  

Walt_Jizzney: From TFA:

'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,'


This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were.

Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more.

FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.


With enough luck, an economic regrowth will coincide with an expanding population of retro-loving hipsters, and we'll see a return to downtown standalone multi-story department stores.  Malls are dying?  Good.
 
2014-04-10 11:30:00 PM  

Omahawg: the mall here died when all the stores bought their own land to build a 'lifestyle center' instead of leasing from general growth

it's like an empty tomb now

it was wall to wall commercialism and thronged with shoppers not even ten years ago.


Which one? Crossroads? General Growth really helped speed up their own demise when as each business' lease was up for renewal, they kept demanding a 5 year lease at increased rates. That's what chased out just about every business from the Mall of the Bluffs as their leases expired (that and the previously mentioned super-pushy sellers of dodgy cosmetics, who I think also had Xmas kiosks at Westroads and Oak View Mall as well). Even the usual cruddy Asian food spot in the food court decided to leave.

Metro Crossing FTW
 
2014-04-10 11:30:36 PM  
I was traveling for work about a month ago, and I was bored, so I went to the mall.

I spent the next hour walking around and thinking "I can't make this business model work". There's entirely too much overhead to realistically compete against Amazon.
 
2014-04-10 11:31:15 PM  

Walt_Jizzney: From TFA:

'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,'


This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were.

Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more.

FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.


Can you tell me what mall has been replaced with a new one in the last 10 years?

Hint:  There has not been a new mall built in the US since 2005.

You're right that it's more to do with "changing landscape of suburbia" than "economic decline", but nobody goes to the mall anymore and nobody wants to go to the mall.    People want to go to specific stores and they go to shopping centers with parking lots that allow them to park right in front of those stores rather than making them wander through a huge building full of stores.

If I were to take a short trip to the mall probably less than 5 miles away from me, I would pass numerous stores on the way selling the exact same shiat as I could get in the mall.....actually, I would have a much bigger selection from the stores on the way to the mall than I would in the actual mall.
 
2014-04-10 11:31:37 PM  

toadist: CruJones: There aren't less stores or less stuff being sold, it just isn't sold at these malls.  What kills a mall is typically a newer mall opening somewhere else.


Yeah,  it's either what you said, or a declining middle class in the middle of a decade long recession.


Even that declining middle class needs their iPhones and hats from Lids
 
2014-04-10 11:33:11 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Mugato: The malls in Tampa and LA are always packed. Sucks to be Ohio I guess.

I don't know if the deserted malls are a sign of the decline of the economy as the article suggests, or merely evidence of how our country reacts to economic troubles.

In places where land is plentiful and cheap, neighborhoods and towns that fall on hard times often aren't given the opportunity to recover.  It's cheaper to build new subdivisions and commercial centers a few dozen miles down the road than try to rescue and rehabilitate struggling communities.

The stories of rough neighborhoods turning the corner and becoming thriving communities again mostly come from big cities where land is still at a premium and it's worth the effort to bring things back again.  Plus, cities tend to have more diverse economies, so they can weather the storm of recession whereas single-industry towns have nothing to fall back on when that industry goes tits up.


Many of the malls were built, not surprisingly, after banks loosened the qualifications for home loans back in the 80's. The malls expanded as home "owners" were given home equity loans for 125% of the value. As consumers flocked to malls with their equity money, they turned the malls into social centers. In turn, mall companies like General Growth raised the occupancy rates to the point only a few anchor stores were able to afford to be there, and even their profit margin was tight. 2001 saw increasing vacancy rates and when the 2007 housing bubble burst, General Growth filed bankruptcy. Why? People couldn't afford to go to the malls, the equity money was gone. GGC reorganized fairly quickly, while they were cash poor, their property investments were huge.

People still flock to malls, but they spend less - more within their means. The new malls are built cheap with many small cheap buildings compared to the huge massive buildings with high overhead, like from the 80's. "Factory Outlet" stores outproduce their full line store counterparts. People still spend money out of their disposable income, but don't consider home equity as disposable. You used to see big homes with new cars, campers, boats, motorcycles, etc, in the driveway - these were the man toys. What you didn't see was the $40k/yr spent by the wives on cloths and make-up, crap for the kids, furnishings - things that kept the mall's doors open.

I'm sure in some cases people are still paying off the purchases from the article's wore out malls in the form of mortgage payments. The economy only appears to look good. While consumers are spending, they really don't have enough to spend. We live in a champagne country with beer budgets. While the general population learned from the housing bubble, the government is still living off equity like it's still 1999.
 
2014-04-10 11:34:06 PM  

JerkStore: Mostly the area looks like downtown Beruit now.


I think they've managed to rebuild Beirut in the mean time.
souar.com
 
2014-04-10 11:34:22 PM  

f150: The new Oldsmobiles are in early this year...


These places are just begging for an old '70s V8 RWD sedan and a GoPro camera

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-04-10 11:34:48 PM  

gfid: Walt_Jizzney: From TFA: 'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,' This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were. Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more. FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's. Can you tell me what mall has been replaced with a new one in the last 10 years? Hint:  There has not been a new mall built in the US since 2005. You're right that it's more to do with "changing landscape of suburbia" than "economic decline", but nobody goes to the mall anymore and nobody wants to go to the mall.    People want to go to specific stores and they go to shopping centers with parking lots that allow them to park right in front of those stores rather than making them wander through a huge building full of stores. If I were to take a short trip to the mall probably less than 5 miles away from me, I would pass numerous stores on the way selling the exact same shiat as I could get in the mall.....actually, I would have a much bigger selection from the stores on the way to the mall than I would in the actual mall.


I assume you mean specifically an indoor mall.  Seems the trend now is the sprawling open air shopping area deal, but that's no different in essence than a mall.  A whole bunch of shopping in one place.

I buy 95% of what I need on Amazon! but even I occasionally have to venture to these places.  One upside is they actually have some good restaurants, and microbreweries.  Downside: no Sbarro.
 
2014-04-10 11:41:32 PM  
Where else am I supposed to go to oggle women's asses?
 
2014-04-10 11:42:06 PM  

RatMotor: f150: The new Oldsmobiles are in early this year...

These places are just begging for an old '70s V8 RWD sedan and a GoPro camera

[i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]


Trivia Note: The mall they filmed that scene in (Dixie Square Mall) was already a defunct mall when they made this movie, in 1980. It only got demolished a couple of years ago after sitting as it was left long after the film crews had left and even the crackheads didn't bother to camp out inside anymore.

abnf.co

http://abnf.co/IL-dixie_square_mall.htm
 
2014-04-10 11:42:49 PM  

gfid: Walt_Jizzney: From TFA:

'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,'


This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were.

Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more.

FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.

Can you tell me what mall has been replaced with a new one in the last 10 years?

Hint:  There has not been a new mall built in the US since 2005.

You're right that it's more to do with "changing landscape of suburbia" than "economic decline", but nobody goes to the mall anymore and nobody wants to go to the mall.    People want to go to specific stores and they go to shopping centers with parking lots that allow them to park right in front of those stores rather than making them wander through a huge building full of stores.

If I were to take a short trip to the mall probably less than 5 miles away from me, I would pass numerous stores on the way selling the exact same shiat as I could get in the mall.....actually, I would have a much bigger selection from the stores on the way to the mall than I would in the actual mall.


Yet even the first modern mall in the world is investing millions in itself
 
2014-04-10 11:42:53 PM  

thatboyoverthere: While my local mall, despite being known for being a bit white trashy, is doing rather well, to the point of making strip malls in it's parking lots. Also I live in Minnesota so we got the Mall of America, and that just got a 325 million dollar budget to make larger, and is going to have a second hotel added to it. Pretty much it's working to be an 80's cyberpunk mall.


Oh my, a 2nd hotel?

I'm pretty sure one of the biggest malls - probably the biggest - I've ever been in had 2 hotels back in the '80s.

I hope that $325 million is private funding..  If so, Mall of America seems to be doing it right.  I guess you have to build something massive to do it right.  FFS, Mall of America is actually a tourist attraction for some people.  I can't think of a single reason I would want to go there.

I guess it acts as a people-sink.  Sort of like a heat sink, it attracts and collects all the people together so that other areas are less crowded.
 
2014-04-10 11:43:03 PM  
My city has three malls. One that's been in decline as long as I can remember (It's the "Black people Mall"; all the good businesses engaged in White Flight). The other is smack-dab in the middle, and it's drying up to nothing but clothing outlets. The BIG mall in the downtown area is still going strong, but that's about it.
 
2014-04-10 11:43:08 PM  

gfid: Walt_Jizzney: From TFA:

'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,'


This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were.

Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more.

FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.

Can you tell me what mall has been replaced with a new one in the last 10 years?

Hint:  There has not been a new mall built in the US since 2005.

You're right that it's more to do with "changing landscape of suburbia" than "economic decline", but nobody goes to the mall anymore and nobody wants to go to the mall.    People want to go to specific stores and they go to shopping centers with parking lots that allow them to park right in front of those stores rather than making them wander through a huge building full of stores.

If I were to take a short trip to the mall probably less than 5 miles away from me, I would pass numerous stores on the way selling the exact same shiat as I could get in the mall.....actually, I would have a much bigger selection from the stores on the way to the mall than I would in the actual mall.


Massive, sprawling, 'outdoor malls' have become very popular, at least in my area of FL.  There are two near here that are always packed.  Personally, I prefer the old style enclosed ones.  You end up having to walk just as far to get to the store you want in the outdoor ones, but now you have to do it in the heat and/or rain instead of a nice air conditioned and climate controlled interior.

Another interesting trend is that they've been adding condo units above the stores as they've expanded, and pricey ones at that.  On one hand I guess it would be sort of cool to have access to everything as they're almost like mini-cities, but on the other hand, the constant traffic and crowds milling about would drive me nuts.
 
2014-04-10 11:47:44 PM  

Cheeseface: Yea I don't particularly understand this mindset that this is a sign of economic decline.

All the businesses moved to open air structures, or moved to more modern mall facilities.

Note how all of your Anytown, USA "pathetic abandoned malls" were all built 30-40 years ago without any renovation afterwards.


It's a shame, because the design and layout of the malls in TFA are pretty cool.  I especially like this interior:

i.dailymail.co.uk

And this entryway to what I assume was some sort of anchor store:

i.dailymail.co.uk

I mourn the loss of the 'massive slabs of imposing concrete' school of mall design.
 
2014-04-10 11:47:47 PM  
Ficoce:
As consumers Baby Boomer families flocked to malls with their equity money good incomes, largely from manufacturing careers (both blue and white collar), they turned the malls into social centers.

The success of the American Mall was phenomenon based largely upon demographics. Baby Boomers began to turn 20 in 1965. America was still the most prosperous nation by far. Young families flocked to the suburbs to buy cheap housing with their solid middle class incomes. Naturally they needed somewhere to spend their money.

Home equity lines of credit had almost nothing to do with it. People started getting scammed that way after they actually *had built some equity* into the late 80s and early 90s.
 
2014-04-10 11:48:07 PM  

gfid: Malls are dead.  I'm so sick of my city trying to "reinvigorate" our mall.  I think they're spending $50 million on a 3rd attempt to resuscitate it.  I mean, I am spending $50 million for it.  Fark that.

The tax revenue from the mall has fallen every year since 2003 and that was only a small uptick in an otherwise consistent decline.  It will take at least 25 years to recover my tax dollars that are being funneled to a corrupt developer.

Even Radio Shack and Orange Julius have fled the mall.  The only reason I ever went anyway is for a gyro, but as promised that place closed too.  The owner told me he would close as soon as his lease was up on my penultimate visit to the mall.

I love the press it is getting though.  My local newspaper recently asked a bunch of people what stores they wanted to see there.  A bunch of retailers were mentioned and every single one of them that the local news asked said they have no plans to open anything there, but a few said "maybe".

Gone are the days when the mall attracted people from far and wide.

Note to self:  Don't vote for the real estate developer for city council.


Yeah... that's the reality.  Malls as we knew them as kids (no idea how old you are, but I assume close enough of an age to me) are in the past.

I kinda miss it, but I assume that's like people of my father's age missing the big barrel of pickles at the corner marker.  Ain't there no more.
 
2014-04-10 11:48:15 PM  
TV's Vinnie:

Once again The Mail seems awfully concerned about what's going on all the way over in America.


Gotta love "The Fail".  Steady reporting of American news of the most lurid murders, assaults on white folks, anything to do with Detroit and mall closures in the US, to make suburban Britons quake in fear while having their afternoon tea and munching on digestives, thanking god they weren't born in America.


ftfa: "When they were built in the 1970s these two gleaming Ohio malls were symbols of the boom years in the U.S."

Yeah, "boom years", because since the 70's, nothing ever happened in the US since then and it's just been one steady economic decline.
 
2014-04-10 11:50:00 PM  
Malls are what happen when a city lets its downtown decline. I'll take a vibrant downtown to a sprawl mall any day.
 
2014-04-10 11:51:30 PM  
I went to the Mall of America today, so I am getting a kick out of these replies...
 
2014-04-10 11:54:26 PM  
Woodfield mall is still going strong......


I have always thought about about converting a near-empty mall to senior and assisted living.  You'd convert many of the retail spaces into efficiency condos that were just a bedroom, living room, breakfast nook and bathroom. The apartments would be spartan because the idea was to spend non-sleeping time out circulating in the larger spaces. Some essential, niche retail and office spaces would be retained, to create the feeling of an old walkable neighborhood block, with a grocery/drugstore on the corner, etc. a clothing and shoe shop, book and music stores,  and a couple of places to gather to eat.  Much of the mall interior would be set up as pleasant green spaces, sculpture gardens, flower and veggie beds, pet enclosures, and places to walk around and get exercise without regard for real outdoor weather, and residents could be secure and have all the cultural and social amenities, plus a dedicated clinic for medical needs.
 
2014-04-11 12:01:19 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Massive, sprawling, 'outdoor malls' have become very popular, at least in my area of FL.  There are two near here that are always packed.  Personally, I prefer the old style enclosed ones.  You end up having to walk just as far to get to the store you want in the outdoor ones, but now you have to do it in the heat and/or rain instead of a nice air conditioned and climate controlled interior.

Another interesting trend is that they've been adding condo units above the stores as they've expanded, and pricey ones at that.  On one hand I guess it would be sort of cool to have access to everything as they're almost like mini-cities, but on the other hand, the constant traffic and crowds milling about would drive me nuts.


Okay, to clarify when I used the term "mall", I meant the enclosed type.  The sprawling strip malls are still being built and are massively popular.

Anytime I need to go to a store, I park right in front of it, often closer to the door than I would if I parked at a mall.  The only thing that kind of sucks about it is I park and drive to every store I go to, whereas in a mall, I would hit several stores and just carry my merchandise around with me until I was done.

That's not a big deal anymore, especially when there are big stores like Walmart, Target, Sam's Club that sell all sorts of stuff and you don't need to hit several stores to get what you need.

I think I would loathe having a condo on top of a mall.  I could see having one on top of a grocery store, especially if it were open 24 hours.  Actually, I think that would be awesome especially if there were a liquor store too.  (Grocery stores can't sell alcohol here 3.2% beer doesn't count as alcohol, IMO)

Sometimes, the grocery store seems so far away even though it really isn't, but if I could just take an elevator at 3AM when I realize I'm out of some particular food?  Yeah, I'll buy that condo.
 
2014-04-11 12:03:53 AM  
Whee! looks like everybody's got TF for the day.
 
2014-04-11 12:04:53 AM  

Intrepid00: The Dogs of War: Ah yes, Rolling Acres and Randall Mall. Two shining examples of why I want out of Ohio

So what is it about Ohio that makes people want out so bad they become astronauts?


What pass for cities in northeast Ohio (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown) are a bit like Detroit, with nowhere to go but down and no reason for anybody with any ambition in life to stick around. Detroiters can at least emigrate by television, courtesy of CBC Windsor.
 
2014-04-11 12:05:26 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: I mourn the loss of the 'massive slabs of imposing concrete' school of mall design.


Feels familiar:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-11 12:05:29 AM  
If it were just a matter of the economy I'd get it.  But I live in the north where it's shiatty 8 months out of the year.  The indoor malls decline while a new mall pops up that is somehow different because it's outdoors and has a shiattier food court.  Removing the roof apparently changes everything.  But I gotta freeze my ass off and/or be douched with rain and/or snow while I shop...at the same group of stores.
 
2014-04-11 12:09:27 AM  

2chris2: I think it's a combination of things that have led to the decline of malls.

1. People shopping at Walmart instead of the big stores like Sears that were always half the square footage of malls.

2. Video arcades, and hanging out in general, no longer bringing in teenagers, who now play video games at home.

3. Everyone doing a lot of their shopping online now instead of at the mall.


nailed it.
 
2014-04-11 12:13:20 AM  

Any Pie Left: Woodfield mall is still going strong......


I have always thought about about converting a near-empty mall to senior and assisted living.  You'd convert many of the retail spaces into efficiency condos that were just a bedroom, living room, breakfast nook and bathroom. The apartments would be spartan because the idea was to spend non-sleeping time out circulating in the larger spaces. Some essential, niche retail and office spaces would be retained, to create the feeling of an old walkable neighborhood block, with a grocery/drugstore on the corner, etc. a clothing and shoe shop, book and music stores,  and a couple of places to gather to eat.  Much of the mall interior would be set up as pleasant green spaces, sculpture gardens, flower and veggie beds, pet enclosures, and places to walk around and get exercise without regard for real outdoor weather, and residents could be secure and have all the cultural and social amenities, plus a dedicated clinic for medical needs.


That actually sounds like a great idea.  Do old people still go to the mall to walk?  I remember when that was a thing.  I also remember a few places where my grandparents and great grandparents spent their last years.  The best of them was sort of like a nice, but not luxurious hotel, but there was nothing to do other than socialize with other old people.
 
2014-04-11 12:16:21 AM  

germ78: Whee! looks like everybody's got TF for the day.


OMG, we did.  I hadn't even noticed yet.

Thanks, Fark
 
2014-04-11 12:17:04 AM  
What purpose to malls really serve anymore? I haven't been to one in 5 or 6 years...I was in college at the time and had no other means of transportation besides the bus that went to the mall (where I bought a MiniDV tape from Sears for some stupid project). Maybe if you are a female, there is more of an appeal, but as a pretty low-key guy that buys my clothes from Goodwill, Ross, Kohl's or Costco, just why would I spend 20 minutes to drive to a mall? As a country, we are way over retailed. The outdoor center trend isn't working either. They built one in the down next to mine back in 2006. The only thing that is ever busy is Wegmans and a few of the other big boxes. The fake 'main street' area has had so many stores come and go, and has never been fully filled, nor developed as it was supposed to be. (But as this sits, about 1/2 a mile up the road, they cleared the last develop-able space in the town for more cardboard housing and a Super Walmart and a bunch of other space that will probably just sit vacant....just what we need, NOT.
 
2014-04-11 12:19:11 AM  
These pictures remind me that I never finished Silent Hill 3
 
2014-04-11 12:20:48 AM  
Test test... anyone heeeere? Heloooo...yup, some day this will all be
Trees again.
 
2014-04-11 12:26:50 AM  

2chris2: I think it's a combination of things that have led to the decline of malls.

1. People shopping at Walmart instead of the big stores like Sears that were always half the square footage of malls.

2. Video arcades, and hanging out in general, no longer bringing in teenagers, who now play video games at home.

3. Everyone doing a lot of their shopping online now instead of at the mall.


Actually, it's 3, 1, then 2 for leading causes.

internet shopping destroying brick and mortar stores, Walmart has ALOT in it, and arcades never drew big shipping crowds, just us nerds who wanted to play the latest quarter eating game.
 
2014-04-11 12:36:29 AM  

CruJones: Our headquarters is an old shopping mall.  We have 1.2 million square feet and got it cheap.  It's pretty cool, there are escalators and it's obvious it used to be a mall.  I think the next phase to open will have the fountains and little rivers.  We recycled over 17,000 tons of metal, and all the glass storefronts are used for doors to meeting rooms, etc.  pretty good use for them, I think other companies are looking into it.


I've seen shopping and strip malls turned into data centers.  Very strange seeing basically empty parking lots with very clean and up to date exteriors.  You walk in and its just cages.
 
2014-04-11 12:40:41 AM  
Some that are REALLY scary are the semi-open ones.

Down & out punks hang there...and they don't care who they go after.


There is no mall security anymore...and there are tons of corners and nooks for them to take advantage of.
 
2014-04-11 12:45:31 AM  
The mausoleums of capitalism, watch how they crumble.
 
2014-04-11 12:49:32 AM  
Testing
 
2014-04-11 12:50:18 AM  

Zombie DJ: economy


^ this

There was a show I was watching the other day (Daily Show?) that was talking about how malls are dying off not due to the economy, but because of our changing of how we're buying more and more things online. Why would I go to a mall to try to find product "X" (and very well not find it at all while there) when I could just pop on Amazon and have it here in a couple days?
 
2014-04-11 12:50:40 AM  

Klaumbaz: 2chris2: I think it's a combination of things that have led to the decline of malls.

1. People shopping at Walmart instead of the big stores like Sears that were always half the square footage of malls.

2. Video arcades, and hanging out in general, no longer bringing in teenagers, who now play video games at home.

3. Everyone doing a lot of their shopping online now instead of at the mall.

Actually, it's 3, 1, then 2 for leading causes.

internet shopping destroying brick and mortar stores, Walmart has ALOT in it, and arcades never drew big shipping crowds, just us nerds who wanted to play the latest quarter eating game.


I'm not sure 3 has overtaken 1 if you count other shopping trips to big stores besides Walmart.  There is still a large contingent of people who want stuff and they want it now even if Amazon Prime can get it to us the next day.

I'll buy things online, but I prefer to burn gas to get my hands on things as quickly as possible instead.

2 is really just silly if you think about it.  Sure, I went to the mall plenty of times just to play video games when I was a young teen, but I was spending a quarter at a time.  At best, I was supporting just ONE business in the whole mall and my contribution might have been as much as $3-4 each time I visited.

How the hell did those places make money?  It would be interesting to see their books.

Back in the '70s I used to go to a pinball arcade place before video games became a thing.  It closed abruptly after being raided as a front for a drug operation.  Ah, now I see the potential in that business model.
 
2014-04-11 12:51:18 AM  

cretinbob: [gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com image 477x277]


Thanks to a mild lazy eye, I never have and never will be able to make any sense at all of these, so... point?
 
2014-04-11 12:54:03 AM  

The Dogs of War: Ah yes, Rolling Acres and Randall Mall. Two shining examples of why I want out of Ohio


Texas, Montana, Washington = pretty decent life for me
Ohio = pure Hell which I'm spending my entire life recovering from.

Yeah, Ohio can pretty much kiss my ass.
 
2014-04-11 01:01:41 AM  

digistil: gfid: Walt_Jizzney: From TFA:

'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,'


This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were.

Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more.

FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.

Can you tell me what mall has been replaced with a new one in the last 10 years?

Hint:  There has not been a new mall built in the US since 2005.

You're right that it's more to do with "changing landscape of suburbia" than "economic decline", but nobody goes to the mall anymore and nobody wants to go to the mall.    People want to go to specific stores and they go to shopping centers with parking lots that allow them to park right in front of those stores rather than making them wander through a huge building full of stores.

If I were to take a short trip to the mall probably less than 5 miles away from me, I would pass numerous stores on the way selling the exact same shiat as I could get in the mall.....actually, I would have a much bigger selection from the stores on the way to the mall than I would in the actual mall.

Yet even the first modern mall in the world is investing millions in itself


Tax money is being used.  A city is desperately trying to save a dying mall.

It won't work.
 
2014-04-11 01:02:05 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Omahawg: the mall here died when all the stores bought their own land to build a 'lifestyle center' instead of leasing from general growth

it's like an empty tomb now

it was wall to wall commercialism and thronged with shoppers not even ten years ago.

Which one? Crossroads? General Growth really helped speed up their own demise when as each business' lease was up for renewal, they kept demanding a 5 year lease at increased rates. That's what chased out just about every business from the Mall of the Bluffs as their leases expired (that and the previously mentioned super-pushy sellers of dodgy cosmetics, who I think also had Xmas kiosks at Westroads and Oak View Mall as well). Even the usual cruddy Asian food spot in the food court decided to leave.

Metro Crossing FTW


lol

duh. mall o' the bluffs....where I worked for two turks in that end corner across from the movie theaters before it was taken over by s'barro. a long, long time ago....
 
2014-04-11 01:08:36 AM  

MBZ321: ...As a country, we are way over retailed.



So farking much this!!!
 
2014-04-11 01:12:10 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Cheeseface: Yea I don't particularly understand this mindset that this is a sign of economic decline.

All the businesses moved to open air structures, or moved to more modern mall facilities.

Note how all of your Anytown, USA "pathetic abandoned malls" were all built 30-40 years ago without any renovation afterwards.

It's a shame, because the design and layout of the malls in TFA are pretty cool.  I especially like this interior:

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x563]

And this entryway to what I assume was some sort of anchor store:

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x561]

I mourn the loss of the 'massive slabs of imposing concrete' school of mall design.


Imagine if somebody turned that into a giant lasertag or paintball arena.
 
2014-04-11 01:13:45 AM  

ph0rk: The mausoleums of capitalism, watch how they crumble.


Some malls seem to chug along forever.  The Garden State Plaza Mall located just outside New York City in Paramus, New Jersey was built in 1957 as an open air mall.  The mall was enclosed in the 1980s.  Since then it has undergone several expansions, the most recent expansion was completed last month.

The GSP mall as it looked in the early 1970s

4.bp.blogspot.com

Same view today

media.northjersey.com
 
2014-04-11 01:24:58 AM  

Notabunny: Malls are what happen when a city lets its downtown decline. I'll take a vibrant downtown to a sprawl mall any day.


Yep, this.

The last time I was in a mall, it was because the county had a satellite license plate office there.  It was less convenient to get to than the downtown courthouse, but it had longer hours.  When they cut the hours back to the same as the courthouse, I had no reason to go.  Then they moved it out of the mall a few years ago.  That mall now has a payday cash advance place, a "life coaching" place, some cell phone stores, a gym, and a high school for problem children in it.

The only reason it won't get torn down is likely the school.
 
2014-04-11 01:36:28 AM  

ph0rk: The mausoleums of capitalism, watch how they crumble.


Casualties of the shift to on-line shopping.
 
2014-04-11 01:45:27 AM  

Omahawg: TV's Vinnie: Omahawg: the mall here died when all the stores bought their own land to build a 'lifestyle center' instead of leasing from general growth

it's like an empty tomb now

it was wall to wall commercialism and thronged with shoppers not even ten years ago.

Which one? Crossroads? General Growth really helped speed up their own demise when as each business' lease was up for renewal, they kept demanding a 5 year lease at increased rates. That's what chased out just about every business from the Mall of the Bluffs as their leases expired (that and the previously mentioned super-pushy sellers of dodgy cosmetics, who I think also had Xmas kiosks at Westroads and Oak View Mall as well). Even the usual cruddy Asian food spot in the food court decided to leave.

Metro Crossing FTW

lol

duh. mall o' the bluffs....where I worked for two turks in that end corner across from the movie theaters before it was taken over by s'barro. a long, long time ago....


I remember that place (not the same owners of "King Kong Gyros" that's at the former DQ on Dodge, BTW). Loved their stuff. Hell, you may have carved me a gyro or two once. :)

MoTB was sold off to some other group a year or so ago, but I haven't seen any improvement, but it seems it can't sink any lower. Last time I went there was a couple years back and because I had to (renewal of drivers license and that's where the DMV is at).

And BTW, if you see a kiosk titled "Dead Sea Treasures" this holiday season, stay the fark clear of those cultist psychos. They sign up with all of the General Growth Properties malls in the area and they're like a swarm of gnats and just as hard to get rid of.
 
2014-04-11 01:47:13 AM  

gfid: thatboyoverthere: While my local mall, despite being known for being a bit white trashy, is doing rather well, to the point of making strip malls in it's parking lots. Also I live in Minnesota so we got the Mall of America, and that just got a 325 million dollar budget to make larger, and is going to have a second hotel added to it. Pretty much it's working to be an 80's cyberpunk mall.

Oh my, a 2nd hotel?

I'm pretty sure one of the biggest malls - probably the biggest - I've ever been in had 2 hotels back in the '80s.

I hope that $325 million is private funding..  If so, Mall of America seems to be doing it right.  I guess you have to build something massive to do it right.  FFS, Mall of America is actually a tourist attraction for some people.  I can't think of a single reason I would want to go there.

I guess it acts as a people-sink.  Sort of like a heat sink, it attracts and collects all the people together so that other areas are less crowded.


The Mall of America blows ass. I was there once and will never go back. You're right though, for some reason it's a huge tourist attraction. I know quite a few people who will take a 2 or 3 day "vacation" there. I can't imagine anything that hellish.
 
2014-04-11 01:49:53 AM  
Make it into a huge adult playground with different bars, restaurants and clubs.
 
2014-04-11 02:03:05 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Omahawg: TV's Vinnie: Omahawg: the mall here died when all the stores bought their own land to build a 'lifestyle center' instead of leasing from general growth

it's like an empty tomb now

it was wall to wall commercialism and thronged with shoppers not even ten years ago.

Which one? Crossroads? General Growth really helped speed up their own demise when as each business' lease was up for renewal, they kept demanding a 5 year lease at increased rates. That's what chased out just about every business from the Mall of the Bluffs as their leases expired (that and the previously mentioned super-pushy sellers of dodgy cosmetics, who I think also had Xmas kiosks at Westroads and Oak View Mall as well). Even the usual cruddy Asian food spot in the food court decided to leave.

Metro Crossing FTW

lol

duh. mall o' the bluffs....where I worked for two turks in that end corner across from the movie theaters before it was taken over by s'barro. a long, long time ago....

I remember that place (not the same owners of "King Kong Gyros" that's at the former DQ on Dodge, BTW). Loved their stuff. Hell, you may have carved me a gyro or two once. :)

MoTB was sold off to some other group a year or so ago, but I haven't seen any improvement, but it seems it can't sink any lower. Last time I went there was a couple years back and because I had to (renewal of drivers license and that's where the DMV is at).

And BTW, if you see a kiosk titled "Dead Sea Treasures" this holiday season, stay the fark clear of those cultist psychos. They sign up with all of the General Growth Properties malls in the area and they're like a swarm of gnats and just as hard to get rid of.


philly steak sandwiches is what they specialized in. I think it's been gone since 1990 at least.

go back and look around. the only food place left is little king where the old little king was in the 80s. it's.....weird, man. it's weird.
 
2014-04-11 02:04:06 AM  

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: The Mall of America blows ass. I was there once and will never go back. You're right though, for some reason it's a huge tourist attraction. I know quite a few people who will take a 2 or 3 day "vacation" there. I can't imagine anything that hellish.


Yep - my opinion is it's a mall (which is bad enough), but bigger.  I've never been.  I probably wouldn't even go if I were staying in a hotel across the street from it.
 
2014-04-11 02:18:31 AM  
To make up for the Cleveland hate in this thread (not all undeserved, I grant) I'd like to point out Cleveland can be a great place to live near, if not in the city limits of.

Kick-ass libraries: I had no idea why so many libraries were listed as some of the best in the nation until I left NE Ohio and actually SAW the rest of the nation.  We have more library use (per capita, I think) than any other state in the union.  We take libraries seriously.

Add to that great metro parks, some of the best museums in the country (and I'm a museum snob - possibly because Ohio made me one), a fantastic collection of theaters, and some damn fine breweries.  (Don't just limit yourself to Great Lakes.  Willoughby Brewing Co has a peanut butter cup coffee porter that is slap someone in the face good).  (Seriously, in the face.)

The schools...  run the gamut.  There are some excellent ones, but it depends on where you live (though that's true most places, in my experience).

We even have jobs, we just don't have a lot of new jobs.  That's the real problem.  Progressive, the Evil Clinic, and the local universities can't hire everyone.  But if you lock into one of the good jobs and make sure your cheap house is insulated with liquid fire, if need be, to keep heating costs down you'll have a good quality of life to look forward to.

tl:dr:  If you're a cheap dork with a good job who doesn't mind cold weather, NE Ohio can be pretty great.  It's not for everybody, but there's good times to be had.
 
2014-04-11 02:20:34 AM  

Harry_Seldon: The owner's should get a bunch of people in Hollywood grade Zombie costumes, and charge people to escape the Zombie apocalypse.


It's means "It is" or "it has".
Unless you mean to write "owners' property", or what have you... Otherwise, no comma necessary.

/grammar naziing
//language is my math
///SYNTAX ERROR!
 
2014-04-11 02:25:19 AM  
Omahawg:

go back and look around. the only food place left is little king where the old little king was in the 80s. it's.....weird, man. it's weird.

Yep. A whole row of empty spaces with Little King at the end, which happens to be the most jinxed spot out of the entire food court. It's been a Little King to a BBQ place to a Quizno's and I think a few other things as well until it became a Little King again. No business has ever lasted more than two years in that space.

Like I said, when even the junky Chinese food place didn't want to hang around, you knew things were going downhill.

Still even that mall didn't get punched in the proverbial balls like Crossroads did.

(Bonus fun: remote-controlled drone flight thru Crossroads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwF6WfX2-_w   )
 
2014-04-11 02:28:16 AM  
Growing up in Cleveland, i'm not sure if i've ever visited either of these malls, but probably... I do know that 'my' mall back then is also now dead, Westgate.

Also, Tower City, right at the Terminal Tower at downtown Public Square was a shining example of civic resurgence as recently as the early 1990's, but its struggling....  It went from having a high end Warner Bros shop to having a .99 cent store.... Its hard to describe such a descrepancy without witnessing it firsthand.
 
2014-04-11 02:30:53 AM  

K.B.O. Winston: To make up for the Cleveland hate in this thread (not all undeserved, I grant) I'd like to point out Cleveland can be a great place to live near, if not in the city limits of.

Kick-ass libraries: I had no idea why so many libraries were listed as some of the best in the nation until I left NE Ohio and actually SAW the rest of the nation.  We have more library use (per capita, I think) than any other state in the union.  We take libraries seriously.

Add to that great metro parks, some of the best museums in the country (and I'm a museum snob - possibly because Ohio made me one), a fantastic collection of theaters, and some damn fine breweries.  (Don't just limit yourself to Great Lakes.  Willoughby Brewing Co has a peanut butter cup coffee porter that is slap someone in the face good).  (Seriously, in the face.)

The schools...  run the gamut.  There are some excellent ones, but it depends on where you live (though that's true most places, in my experience).

We even have jobs, we just don't have a lot of new jobs.  That's the real problem.  Progressive, the Evil Clinic, and the local universities can't hire everyone.  But if you lock into one of the good jobs and make sure your cheap house is insulated with liquid fire, if need be, to keep heating costs down you'll have a good quality of life to look forward to.

tl:dr:  If you're a cheap dork with a good job who doesn't mind cold weather, NE Ohio can be pretty great.  It's not for everybody, but there's good times to be had.


Nah, Cleveland is as bad as its reputation.  I've been there.  It's a shiathole.  I actually checked out 2 museums.  One of them wasn't too bad, but it's a place where rivers catch fire and it snows too much and it's in Ohio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpNnfpCV1wI&feature=kp
 
2014-04-11 02:45:10 AM  
I hear Cleveland is actually on the rebound.
 
2014-04-11 02:59:02 AM  

Kuta: Ficoce:
As consumers Baby Boomer families flocked to malls with their equity money good incomes, largely from manufacturing careers (both blue and white collar), they turned the malls into social centers.

The success of the American Mall was phenomenon based largely upon demographics. Baby Boomers began to turn 20 in 1965. America was still the most prosperous nation by far. Young families flocked to the suburbs to buy cheap housing with their solid middle class incomes. Naturally they needed somewhere to spend their money.

Home equity lines of credit had almost nothing to do with it. People started getting scammed that way after they actually *had built some equity* into the late 80s and early 90s.


Must be young. Guess you don't remember mortgage interest rates at 12% where most of the payment went to interest. Before the, *had built some equity* into the late 80s and early 90s, to be able to buy a home someone in their 30's or 40's with good credit needed needed at least 20% down. If in your 20's, 30% and a co-signer was common.  What did loosening mortgage credit do? Introduce buying a mortgage for 1 or 2% "down". In other words, for points. Home values steadily shot up every year about 11%. For example, if you bought a $100,000 house - in as little as 3 years you had close to a $45,000 credit line when they started the $125% home equity program. This is where the equity came from. Prior to this, taking out a second mortgage was expensive and not done lightly. Had very little to do with being a boomer.

The "old" baby boomers buy up in housing and trade in cars every couple years. The kids of these baby boomers? Well, they went to the mall. Literally. Their parents funded this. The "young" baby boomers didn't have a lot of experience with the "free money" equity brought them. They didn't have to save up $100,000 to buy their $300,000 house; just had to start making payments and were given a equity line.

Now, to many people going to the mall meant grabbing some crap at the food court, seeing a movie, maybe buying a new pair of shoes - but a good percentage of those people spent real money. I'm talking about women with 200 handbags, 250 pairs of shoes in the closet, spending a grand on makeup every month - spending $15 grand on Christmas presents. Spend money at the anchor stores, spend a little at their neighbors. Give the kids the card to spend at Aeropostail and Zumies. Put it on the credit cards and then pay the CC off with home equity.

This was steady income for the stores and, in turn, the malls. By this time having a Mom and Pop in a major mall was unheard of. Public stock companies had the capital the malls required. Public companies all do the same thing - they make money, with increases in the percentage the goal every year. They did really well.

People were used to their homes increasing in value every year. It was easy - values went up, interest rates went down. People took advantage and malls profited. When the bubble burst, malls began to close doors.

Don't believe me? I'm living it. In 1988 I had a night job in college cleaning banks. I wanted free money, too, but had half a dozen bank managers from 3 different banks tell me what would happen. I guess you might call that insider, because they were making a boatload on mortgage sales. I bought a starter house and still live here. Never bought a new car or shopped at the mall. Everything is paid. Know what? it's lonely. Haven't seen most of my old friends in years. Many have moved to apartments and work all the time. I get calls from creditors all the time - people put my name down as a reference, so I know my friends are still around. A lot of people got caught up in this. I feel like I've got survivors syndrome. Don't know what to say. I'm at the airport a few weeks ago waiting for my wife to fly in. Talking to some others waiting. Everyone was agreeing the TSA sucked, etc, and I told them I took a train ride for a week with no TSA. The question came up, "What do you do for money?" I asked them what they had in mind. I really couldn't think of anything to say except, nothing. They were older than I was and could tell they probably worked hard - the look they gave me was pretty harsh. I mean, I'm busy all the time, but don't have my nose to any grindstone. I'm real busy right now planning a camping trip. (I'll probably go alone - had a couple guys that had the time, but they're 75 and I want to sit by the fire, not practice cpr.)  I should probably say day trader or casino gambler. I should pick up a minimum wage job for a few hours a week for spending money - I could tell people I build Big Macs and be part of the club.

Don't underestimate what the housing bubble did, and is still doing, to the economy.
 
2014-04-11 04:15:43 AM  
Wages peaked in this country  before these malls were built.

The malls are a symptom of 1. the inability of millions of Americans to maintain a lifestyle and 2. the refusal of Americans to pay inflated prices for crap made in China.
 
2014-04-11 04:25:40 AM  

wildcardjack: The Simpsons already did it.

And it's not all a sign of a collective decline. It's a sign that shopping moved away from these malls. Although if I were running a mall store I'd only be open evenings and weekends most of the year.



Oh no you wouldn't.  You'd have a lease that specifies the hours that your store MUST be open.  You'd have no choice about this unless you were big enough a chain to force the issue.  (Chick fil a comes to mind).

You'd be fined by the mall managment company for every minute past the mall opening time your store wasn't opened, and in most cases, you'd have to pay a small percentage of your sales to the managment company in addition to your rent.

That's how most standard malls work.   That's one of they many reasons why they're going the way of the dodo.
 
2014-04-11 04:38:44 AM  
i860.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-11 04:46:50 AM  
oukewldave:

It's because those areas became very attractive and successful.  Same thing happened to Euclid Square mall and is now happening to Great Lakes mall in Mentor now.  It soon shall be closed.

Hahaha your Fark™ euphemism for ghetto culture made me chuckle. But which came first, the area become attractive and successful, or the mall?

Here, the standard life cycle of a mall is Birth\remodel\slow death\Hip Hop Culture shops, "ethnic" stores and kiosks valor\closing\Fark article. :P

gfid:
Hint:  There has not been a new mall built in the US since 2005.

False. But as other people have stated upthread, I'm not limiting my definition to the indoor-model.
 
2014-04-11 05:22:38 AM  
I visit a local mall about every two or three years. I am always amazed that the bookstore, can't remember the chain, is still in business. I can understand a used or rare bookstore, but paperbacks? Best sellers? What is the set of people who go to a mall but don't have the internet? And buy books.

I don't know. Maybe next time I go they will be closed.
 
2014-04-11 05:26:22 AM  
I don't think I have been to an indoor mall in 10 years. The final straw for me was going through one where there were lots of cellphone kiosks and every single one thought it was vital to scream at you to get your attention.
 
2014-04-11 05:49:28 AM  

K.B.O. Winston: To make up for the Cleveland hate in this thread (not all undeserved, I grant) I'd like to point out Cleveland can be a great place to live near, if not in the city limits of.

Kick-ass libraries: I had no idea why so many libraries were listed as some of the best in the nation until I left NE Ohio and actually SAW the rest of the nation.  We have more library use (per capita, I think) than any other state in the union.  We take libraries seriously.

Add to that great metro parks, some of the best museums in the country (and I'm a museum snob - possibly because Ohio made me one), a fantastic collection of theaters, and some damn fine breweries.  (Don't just limit yourself to Great Lakes.  Willoughby Brewing Co has a peanut butter cup coffee porter that is slap someone in the face good).  (Seriously, in the face.)

The schools...  run the gamut.  There are some excellent ones, but it depends on where you live (though that's true most places, in my experience).

We even have jobs, we just don't have a lot of new jobs.  That's the real problem.  Progressive, the Evil Clinic, and the local universities can't hire everyone.  But if you lock into one of the good jobs and make sure your cheap house is insulated with liquid fire, if need be, to keep heating costs down you'll have a good quality of life to look forward to.

tl:dr:  If you're a cheap dork with a good job who doesn't mind cold weather, NE Ohio can be pretty great.  It's not for everybody, but there's good times to be had.


I went through this whole thread just laughing my ass off at some of this. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, and of course, this is Fark where everyone is sure they'll go to New York / Chicago / LA / Miami / Whatever and find high paying work so they can live in a postage stamp apartment and go to overpriced clubs and that will be so very much better.

Me? I'm right here with you man. I'm IT Networking, and in about a year I'm p going to be sewing up a job with Hyland Software, Teledyne or the Clinic as a SysAdmin or maybe in network support.

Let the weaklings and limp wrists leave. Cleveland doesn't want em or need em. This is a tough town, and it's always been that way.  And when the medical boom hits in the next five to ten years, THIS is going to be one of the capitols of that massive growth and everyone who had the brains to stick around and lay down roots are going to be the ones reaping the benefits.

Sure, it's not perfect, but nowhere is. And at least here, I don't need to make 80K a year to just SURVIVE.
 
2014-04-11 05:54:21 AM  

gfid: K.B.O. Winston: To make up for the Cleveland hate in this thread (not all undeserved, I grant) I'd like to point out Cleveland can be a great place to live near, if not in the city limits of.

Kick-ass libraries: I had no idea why so many libraries were listed as some of the best in the nation until I left NE Ohio and actually SAW the rest of the nation.  We have more library use (per capita, I think) than any other state in the union.  We take libraries seriously.

Add to that great metro parks, some of the best museums in the country (and I'm a museum snob - possibly because Ohio made me one), a fantastic collection of theaters, and some damn fine breweries.  (Don't just limit yourself to Great Lakes.  Willoughby Brewing Co has a peanut butter cup coffee porter that is slap someone in the face good).  (Seriously, in the face.)

The schools...  run the gamut.  There are some excellent ones, but it depends on where you live (though that's true most places, in my experience).

We even have jobs, we just don't have a lot of new jobs.  That's the real problem.  Progressive, the Evil Clinic, and the local universities can't hire everyone.  But if you lock into one of the good jobs and make sure your cheap house is insulated with liquid fire, if need be, to keep heating costs down you'll have a good quality of life to look forward to.

tl:dr:  If you're a cheap dork with a good job who doesn't mind cold weather, NE Ohio can be pretty great.  It's not for everybody, but there's good times to be had.

Nah, Cleveland is as bad as its reputation.  I've been there.  It's a shiathole.  I actually checked out 2 museums.  One of them wasn't too bad, but it's a place where rivers catch fire and it snows too much and it's in Ohio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpNnfpCV1wI&feature=kp


You know how I know you've NEVER been to Cleveland?

Because you think it snows too much.
 
2014-04-11 06:08:25 AM  
Triangle Town Center mall Raleigh North Carolina 2 years from now.
/I worked there, and if you've ever been there, you know what a run down sh*t hole of a mall it is.
 
2014-04-11 06:09:13 AM  
Life without people. In one hundred years, it will be a forest.
 
2014-04-11 06:25:59 AM  
Chrissie Hynde wrote the theme song.
Way to go Ohio! ("My City Was Gone" )
 
2014-04-11 06:46:10 AM  
Cheeseface:

Note how all of your Anytown, USA "pathetic abandoned malls" were all built 30-40 years ago without any renovation afterwards.

The pictures all look like the two malls around here that are still open.  Same exact floor plan.
 
2014-04-11 06:54:50 AM  
It's the internet, stupid.
 
2014-04-11 07:13:45 AM  

Disciple_of_Trogdor: You know how I know you've NEVER been to Cleveland?

Because you think it snows too much.


I actually have been to Cleveland.  I left sunny Arizona to go there for a weekend of work.  I was at this job site for 24 hours - seriously, I worked 7 AM on a Saturday until about 7 AM on Sunday.  It snowed to whole time.  I even picked up a snow shovel, because living in Arizona I wondered what it was like to shovel snow.   It wasn't that fun, but fortunately a co-worker had a snow plow attached to the front of his pickup and he seemed to enjoy plowing the whole parking lot.

Yeah - it snowed way too much.  Maybe I just caught it on a bad weekend.

Seriously, who the fark outfits their pickup with a snow plow unless you live somewhere that gets too much snow?

I live in Colorado now.  I don't know anyone who has plow blades attached to the front of their cars and we get a fair amount of snow here.

So, I can sum up my trip to Cleveland like this.

/It snows so much that ordinary people attacjh snow plow blades to the front of their pickup trucks.
//It's so boring that people actually enjoy shoveling/plowing snow
///The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame sucks ass.
////you can't clean up some city grime - some shiat just doesn't wash off.  I saw that in Cleveland  (I've seen it other places too - they try to make the old part of the city new.....it doesn't work.  It's still a shiathioe)
//Don't take it personally if you're from Cleveland.  I'm not judging you personally.
 
2014-04-11 07:19:59 AM  

gfid: Disciple_of_Trogdor: You know how I know you've NEVER been to Cleveland?

Because you think it snows too much.

I actually have been to Cleveland.  I left sunny Arizona to go there for a weekend of work.  I was at this job site for 24 hours - seriously, I worked 7 AM on a Saturday until about 7 AM on Sunday.  It snowed to whole time.  I even picked up a snow shovel, because living in Arizona I wondered what it was like to shovel snow.   It wasn't that fun, but fortunately a co-worker had a snow plow attached to the front of his pickup and he seemed to enjoy plowing the whole parking lot.

Yeah - it snowed way too much.  Maybe I just caught it on a bad weekend.

Seriously, who the fark outfits their pickup with a snow plow unless you live somewhere that gets too much snow?

I live in Colorado now.  I don't know anyone who has plow blades attached to the front of their cars and we get a fair amount of snow here.

So, I can sum up my trip to Cleveland like this.

/It snows so much that ordinary people attacjh snow plow blades to the front of their pickup trucks.
//It's so boring that people actually enjoy shoveling/plowing snow
///The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame sucks ass.
////you can't clean up some city grime - some shiat just doesn't wash off.  I saw that in Cleveland  (I've seen it other places too - they try to make the old part of the city new.....it doesn't work.  It's still a shiathioe)
//Don't take it personally if you're from Cleveland.  I'm not judging you personally.


I used to visit Phoenix a lot. I remember abandoned strip malls and a day where it was 115 degrees in the shade. I guess some people don't mind that.

Don't take it personally...
 
Skr
2014-04-11 07:23:15 AM  
Here in the Minnesota Twin Cities area there are still plenty of malls going strong. The Eden Prairie mall where Mallrats was filmed had some renovation done ten years or so ago, but it is mostly still there.
Northdale, Rosedale, and Woodbury malls are all decent enough servicing the North side of the metro. Mall of America anchors the southside, with a few higher class malls in the surrounding areas.

As directly relating to this article. There was the Brookdale Center mall in the west suburb city Brooklyn Center that was over 50 years old that finally succumbed to time, urban blight, and ghettofication. Crime rates in the area were among the highest of the state so the mall basically was bled dry by theft, vandalism, and keeping an old building alive. It died a slow death. Around 5 years ago it was officially closed, though it was probably closed well before that to the eyes of many locals.

Recently heard that there is a plan to demolish the husk, and start a fresh new mall area to try to bring the place back to life. I'm assuming that the planners for the project have a good idea on the amount of crime deterrence they'll need to build into the project to make it viable.

Malls (indoor and strip) seem a decent enough place to go looking for an outfit when looking for non-specifics. 3 or 4 large anchor department stores and a smattering of chains all in one place is cheaper on gas than carting around town, with the benefit of trying on the clothing.

Plus Auntie Anne's pretzels, Heart attack inducing bliss. Extra salt doused with butter.
/MoA is more of a Human Theme Park within spitting distance of the main Minnesota airport and its slew of hotels.
 
2014-04-11 07:29:44 AM  
Go here

http://deadmalls.com/ .

I actually despise those new "power centers", especially this winter. If you want to go to several stores, you wind up climbing over piles of snow, or you need to drive from one end of the shopping center to the other.

In spite of a Walmart supercenter opening up here, we still have an enclosed mall here with >95% occupancy, plus a thriving downtown. The developers are even creating retail spaces for mom 'n' pop stores on the lover-floors of new mufti-dwelling blocks.

Economic downturn be damned.
 
2014-04-11 07:36:38 AM  

0z79: cretinbob: [gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com image 477x277]

Thanks to a mild lazy eye, I never have and never will be able to make any sense at all of these, so... point?


it is a reference to the movie mall rats.....which seems apropos considering the headline and thread subject
 
2014-04-11 07:46:32 AM  
Throw in a few shambling zombies, and I'd swear those were shots from  Dawn of the Dead,

/the good version from 1979, not the terrible remake
 
2014-04-11 08:35:09 AM  
Mall of America is an aweful mall to have to shop at because of the amusement park in the middle, all the stores ring it. Once you're above the first level you cant cut across the middle.

I like the new "town center" or fake downtown concept. In NoVA, there are still several busy indoor malls, but they started building town centers with normal mall stores and more upscale restaurants on the ground floor with offices above in the core and then ring it with parking garages and apartments/condos and townhomes. It works here because Fairfax county didnt plan growth, so its way more convenient than the real downtown Fairfax. The streets inside the town center can then be easily blocked for for festivals or fairs to further bring people to the area. Without really impacting people who just want to hit a store or eat.

There's a failed mall in Springfield that is on the same decline where the only thing still opened is a Sears and Macys. The car dealers in the area use the parking lot as a storage lot. It probably fell victim to the "those people" problem, but it is also basically equidistant from the upscale Tyson's Corner malls and Pentagon City, and a Mills brand indoor outlet mall, which probably split the shoppers off, plus Old Town Alexandria with its specialty shops and some chain stores.
 
2014-04-11 08:35:20 AM  
The four malls nearest me have all expanded in the past few years, and the largest just broke ground on a million sq tf expansion. Malls aren't going anywhere.
 
2014-04-11 08:41:24 AM  

August11: I visit a local mall about every two or three years. I am always amazed that the bookstore, can't remember the chain, is still in business. I can understand a used or rare bookstore, but paperbacks? Best sellers? What is the set of people who go to a mall but don't have the internet? And buy books.

I don't know. Maybe next time I go they will be closed.


I regularly shop at this book store that sells used/new books.  http://www.montclairbookcenter.com/

This store does biz on the net, but I like going to the store.  The building is old.....it's got a tin ceiling.    The combination of 100+ year old building and old books gives the place a wonderfully musty smell.  I get a contact high just walking in the door.  The other great thing about actually shopping in this place is that it's like a treasure hunt.  I walk over to a bin or shelf of used books/magazines/CDs and start digging.  More times than not I find some little nugget of awesome.   Try and get this same experience off Amazon.
 
2014-04-11 08:59:44 AM  

0z79: Yeah, Ohio can pretty much kiss my ass.


It's easy to hate on Ohio now, but the fact remains that Ohio was kicked extra special hard in the nutz by the de-industrialization of the USA.  Ohio was once a manufacturing powerhouse that provided millions good paying jobs.  When those jobs went overseas, there was nothing to replace them.   Other states lost as many, or more, factory jobs....New Jersey for example.  Unlike Ohio, New Jersey as fortunate enough to be stuck between Philly and New York City, when big finance took over in those cities, there was enough spillover into NJ to keep the place afloat until Depression 2.0.  Ohio, Michigan, and the other former Midwest manufacturing states are really the victims of policies set in Washington and Wall St., we really need to stop blaming the victims.
 
2014-04-11 09:15:08 AM  

MBZ321: What purpose to malls really serve anymore?


Third places and/or modern-day town squares for adolescents and young adults. Except that some of these adolescents get so rowdy that they damage the malls' commercial functions.
 
2014-04-11 09:19:46 AM  

hausman007: The streets inside the town center can then be easily blocked for for festivals or fairs to further bring people to the area.


That's because the streets aren't public streets and are privately owned by the shopping center. This has the advantage that they can get rid of annoying people who in a real downtown would hassle you and make shopping unpleasant. The downside is you have a mall manager deciding what a large part of the area's culture should be. You're unlikely to find anything unique or risque like you would on the side streets of an old downtown shopping area.
 
2014-04-11 09:25:33 AM  

j.lunatic: Third places and/or modern-day town squares for adolescents and young adults. Except that some of these adolescents get so rowdy that they damage the malls' commercial functions.


Third places are going to be a big issue with the coming collapse of retail. Automation, driverless delivery vehicles, improvements in remote sensing technology (think Kinect version 5 that can get your measurements as well as the best tailor), and many other factors are going to lead to the death of 90% of walk in retail. Since many of these places serve as the neighborhood or town social hub, there is going to be a huge unfulfilled need for something new. Churches probably have the most to gain since they're already setup to fill that social vacuum but a smart forward looking person could probably make a mint buying up retail spaces and converting them into shared experience centers.
 
2014-04-11 09:37:38 AM  

EngineerAU: j.lunatic: Third places and/or modern-day town squares for adolescents and young adults. Except that some of these adolescents get so rowdy that they damage the malls' commercial functions.

Third places are going to be a big issue with the coming collapse of retail. Automation, driverless delivery vehicles, improvements in remote sensing technology (think Kinect version 5 that can get your measurements as well as the best tailor), and many other factors are going to lead to the death of 90% of walk in retail. Since many of these places serve as the neighborhood or town social hub, there is going to be a huge unfulfilled need for something new. Churches probably have the most to gain since they're already setup to fill that social vacuum but a smart forward looking person could probably make a mint buying up retail spaces and converting them into shared experience centers.


Like a titty bar?
 
2014-04-11 09:49:38 AM  
At least two of the malls in my area have kiosks for repairing cracked windshields. So whenever I walk by one, the guy asks me if I have a cracked windshield. Yes, my windshield has been cracked for some time now and and I've been wandering the malls hoping someone would help.

/not exactly on topic but I had to share that
 
2014-04-11 10:06:28 AM  
Lots of Ohio hate in here.  I live in central Ohio and if you can get past the tOSU overload it is a great place to live.

On topic my previous job was actually housed in an old mall.  It was weird doing professional work in a mall, but it was also kind of neat.  We owned the building, which had a movie theater that still had lots of stuff in there, but was used mostly for storage.  It would be prohibitively expensive, but I'd love to buy an abandoned mall and use it as a house.
 
2014-04-11 10:17:40 AM  

mjbok: Lots of Ohio hate in here.  I live in central Ohio and if you can get past the tOSU overload it is a great place to live.

On topic my previous job was actually housed in an old mall.  It was weird doing professional work in a mall, but it was also kind of neat.  We owned the building, which had a movie theater that still had lots of stuff in there, but was used mostly for storage.  It would be prohibitively expensive, but I'd love to buy an abandoned mall and use it as a house.


Interesting thought.... would take a lot of upgrade work most likely, and debatable whether it would be worth it to keep the escalators running (don't know if there is an easy way to rig one up to have a switch to run for 5 minutes when someone is there to use it), but, some rich people might think it was "unique" to live in an old mall, souped up to be large "luxury" apartment/condos..... "I live in the former Banana Republic!".   Mall with 75 storefronts could be 75 very large condos, with ample inside causeways to walk around in.
 
2014-04-11 10:29:10 AM  
That mall will be fine.  They just need to hire Dobis P.R. to run it.
 
2014-04-11 11:09:21 AM  
If I were homeless, I'd live there. A hell of a lot better than a steam grate in winter.
 
2014-04-11 11:32:43 AM  
The only closed-in mall near us is the Northridge shopping center in Salinas,CA. It is extremely busy. 98.2% of the shoppers there are Hispanics, most of which don't know wtf Amazon is.
The general rule of thumb as is as follows:
1) round up as many children as you can
2) wear your finest cowboy/ranchero outfit
3) let the nine or more children you brought with you run amok, scream and be as disruptive as possible,
4) mean-mug the shiat out of every other person you see
5) don't buy anything
6) participate in the occasional gang related shooting

Maybe it's better that a lot of these enclosed malls are closing down.
 
2014-04-11 11:37:33 AM  

boyvoyeur: If I were homeless, I'd live there. A hell of a lot better than a steam grate in winter.


Well, until the wrecking balls come, but, yeah.
 
2014-04-11 12:56:22 PM  

Fissile: ph0rk: The mausoleums of capitalism, watch how they crumble.

Some malls seem to chug along forever.  The Garden State Plaza Mall located just outside New York City in Paramus, New Jersey was built in 1957 as an open air mall.  The mall was enclosed in the 1980s.  Since then it has undergone several expansions, the most recent expansion was completed last month.

The GSP mall as it looked in the early 1970s

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 640x423]

Same view today

[media.northjersey.com image 570x378]


I used to go there in the 70s and the drive-in theater next to it.
 
2014-04-11 01:35:47 PM  

gfid: Klaumbaz: 2chris2: I think it's a combination of things that have led to the decline of malls.

1. People shopping at Walmart instead of the big stores like Sears that were always half the square footage of malls.

2. Video arcades, and hanging out in general, no longer bringing in teenagers, who now play video games at home.

3. Everyone doing a lot of their shopping online now instead of at the mall.

Actually, it's 3, 1, then 2 for leading causes.

internet shopping destroying brick and mortar stores, Walmart has ALOT in it, and arcades never drew big shipping crowds, just us nerds who wanted to play the latest quarter eating game.

I'm not sure 3 has overtaken 1 if you count other shopping trips to big stores besides Walmart.  There is still a large contingent of people who want stuff and they want it now even if Amazon Prime can get it to us the next day.

I'll buy things online, but I prefer to burn gas to get my hands on things as quickly as possible instead.

2 is really just silly if you think about it.  Sure, I went to the mall plenty of times just to play video games when I was a young teen, but I was spending a quarter at a time.  At best, I was supporting just ONE business in the whole mall and my contribution might have been as much as $3-4 each time I visited.

How the hell did those places make money?  It would be interesting to see their books.

Back in the '70s I used to go to a pinball arcade place before video games became a thing.  It closed abruptly after being raided as a front for a drug operation.  Ah, now I see the potential in that business model.


Yes, they were, at their most legal, money laundering fronts. The interiors of our arcades were always semi dark (Aladdin's castle, Gold Mine, and Twilight Zone.) Perfect places for illicit deals with all the loud arcade noises making it hard to figure out what the shady guys were talking about.
 
2014-04-11 01:47:25 PM  

armor helix: The only closed-in mall near us is the Northridge shopping center in Salinas,CA. It is extremely busy. 98.2% of the shoppers there are Hispanics, most of which don't know wtf Amazon is.
The general rule of thumb as is as follows:
1) round up as many children as you can
2) wear your finest cowboy/ranchero outfit
3) let the nine or more children you brought with you run amok, scream and be as disruptive as possible,
4) mean-mug the shiat out of every other person you see
5) don't buy anything
6) participate in the occasional gang related shooting

Maybe it's better that a lot of these enclosed malls are closing down.


Keeps 'em off the streets
 
2014-04-11 02:41:50 PM  
>Dead leaves, dirty ground and gaping holes in the ceiling show how far the mall has fallen into disrepair

Someone is supposed to maintain an abandoned mall?
 
2014-04-11 02:57:36 PM  

bentley57: Someone is supposed to maintain an abandoned mall?


Usually, the owner. At least, if they don't want their property declared blighted and seized.

(Fencing and plywood sheeting over all entrances, as well as keeping the property structurally sound and ensuring it isn't a fire risk, counts as "maintaining" it.)
 
2014-04-11 03:28:20 PM  
my 30th year in business in a mall in NE ohio...
My mall has decined, but is hangin in there...

lucky me ...for sure    I'm serious.jpg
shameless plug;
http://www.glassescontacts.com

Thanks to all for supporting a local family owned biz :)
 
2014-04-11 03:43:12 PM  

Animatronik: gfid: Disciple_of_Trogdor: You know how I know you've NEVER been to Cleveland?

Because you think it snows too much.

I actually have been to Cleveland.  I left sunny Arizona to go there for a weekend of work.  I was at this job site for 24 hours - seriously, I worked 7 AM on a Saturday until about 7 AM on Sunday.  It snowed to whole time.  I even picked up a snow shovel, because living in Arizona I wondered what it was like to shovel snow.   It wasn't that fun, but fortunately a co-worker had a snow plow attached to the front of his pickup and he seemed to enjoy plowing the whole parking lot.

Yeah - it snowed way too much.  Maybe I just caught it on a bad weekend.

Seriously, who the fark outfits their pickup with a snow plow unless you live somewhere that gets too much snow?

I live in Colorado now.  I don't know anyone who has plow blades attached to the front of their cars and we get a fair amount of snow here.

So, I can sum up my trip to Cleveland like this.

/It snows so much that ordinary people attacjh snow plow blades to the front of their pickup trucks.
//It's so boring that people actually enjoy shoveling/plowing snow
///The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame sucks ass.
////you can't clean up some city grime - some shiat just doesn't wash off.  I saw that in Cleveland  (I've seen it other places too - they try to make the old part of the city new.....it doesn't work.  It's still a shiathioe)
//Don't take it personally if you're from Cleveland.  I'm not judging you personally.

I used to visit Phoenix a lot. I remember abandoned strip malls and a day where it was 115 degrees in the shade. I guess some people don't mind that.

Don't take it personally...


A lot of people dont realize this, but, the Lord GOD is actually pretty lazy. sure, he, the Lord GOD created the stars and the firmement, the dark and the light and all that crazy shiat in six days, but, then, he rested... basicaly, flaked off. well.. the earth wasn't done yet really, kinda like the terrain editor in Sim city... kinda only half baked really.

so.. here He, the Lord GOD had a bit of a mess on his hands.. here had places like Arizona, where it was hot, it was dry, and the ground was hard, then he had places like Ohio, were it was muddy, depressing, and the rivers caught on fire. Now, He, the Lord GOD couldn't really fix those problems so he was in a bit of a bind.
He, the Lord GOD pondered the situation and came up with the most practical, and perfect solution. He took the lands with all of the problems and he simply created People who like it like that.
 
2014-04-11 03:56:38 PM  
By no means a sociologist or an economist (or a philanthropist, or a bicyclist), but yes, the mall seems to be an idea whose time has come and gone.

Malls boomed in the 60's through the 80's, particularly with kids in the 70's and 80's, when flight to the suburbs happened and kids lived too far apart to gather at a park or whatever, but had to rely on Mom and Dad to drop them off somewhere to gather and have fun. When you didn't have a car, or when gas was astronomical like it was in the late 70's, a place like a mall was awesome: You could shop, get food and hit the arcade or movie theater with your friends, all without having to leave the building, plus, Mom & Dad could even stay, too, just shopping at more Mom (JCPenney) and Dad (Sears Brand Central) kind of places.

The change that happened in the 80's/90's: Most suburban kids, 16+, started to get cars. With a car, kid can go do things without a parent, and you can hit better spots that have all of those specific things that you used to need to have in one place at the mall. Parents, without having to be attached to the kids, skip the mall. Then in the last decade, the PS3/Xbox takes care of the arcade/movie part, and the Internet suffices for shopping, so if you leave the house, you're probably just going to someone else's house.

Also, helicopter parents have gotten afraid of having their kids in any common area, out of their sight, where some predator could assault them, while kids also lead such scheduled, programmed lives between sports & music practices that do-nothing, hang-out time seems to be a rarity, usually spent with the nose in the cell phone or laptop chatting online. The occasional story of a mall riot, usually with racial overtones, probably hasn't helped this.

My girlfriend claims to have spent a ton of time in the mall growing up. She loves to shop. But now, she does it online, where she can find more unique niché things, get better deals and not have to deal with the riffraff. The mall is more of a nostalgia trip for her now than anything.

Given how easy it is to now work from home, the only places it seems like we might gather together en masse in the future might be schools & sports arenas, with schools potentially going the way of the Internet-killed Dodo at some point as well.
 
2014-04-11 04:20:34 PM  
I remember when all the stories were about businesses abandoning downtown for these malls.
 
2014-04-11 04:28:01 PM  

armor helix: The only closed-in mall near us is the Northridge shopping center in Salinas,CA. It is extremely busy. 98.2% of the shoppers there are Hispanics, most of which don't know wtf Amazon is.
The general rule of thumb as is as follows:
1) round up as many children as you can
2) wear your finest cowboy/ranchero outfit
3) let the nine or more children you brought with you run amok, scream and be as disruptive as possible,
4) mean-mug the shiat out of every other person you see
5) don't buy anything
6) participate in the occasional gang related shooting

Maybe it's better that a lot of these enclosed malls are closing down.


So you've been to Metrocenter in Phx? Or AZ Mills in Tempe?
 
2014-04-11 04:52:01 PM  

gfid: Walt_Jizzney: From TFA:

'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,'


This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were.

Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more.

FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.

Can you tell me what mall has been replaced with a new one in the last 10 years?

Hint:  There has not been a new mall built in the US since 2005.

You're right that it's more to do with "changing landscape of suburbia" than "economic decline", but nobody goes to the mall anymore and nobody wants to go to the mall.    People want to go to specific stores and they go to shopping centers with parking lots that allow them to park right in front of those stores rather than making them wander through a huge building full of stores.

If I were to take a short trip to the mall probably less than 5 miles away from me, I would pass numerous stores on the way selling the exact same shiat as I could get in the mall.....actually, I would have a much bigger selection from the stores on the way to the mall than I would in the actual mall.


False. City Creek in Salt Lake City is absolutely enormous and making money hand over fist.
But to be fair, it was the ONLY one opened in 2012 in the US.
It's a nice, modern, partially open mall very well suited to the climate, the clientele, and the design of the city. If you want to do anything in the middle of town, you'll probably park under it. It was very well designed, has a bit of everything and LOTS of some things, and will probably be permanently profitable.
 
2014-04-11 06:21:57 PM  

Fissile: August11: I visit a local mall about every two or three years. I am always amazed that the bookstore, can't remember the chain, is still in business. I can understand a used or rare bookstore, but paperbacks? Best sellers? What is the set of people who go to a mall but don't have the internet? And buy books.

I don't know. Maybe next time I go they will be closed.

I regularly shop at this book store that sells used/new books.  http://www.montclairbookcenter.com/

This store does biz on the net, but I like going to the store.  The building is old.....it's got a tin ceiling.    The combination of 100+ year old building and old books gives the place a wonderfully musty smell.  I get a contact high just walking in the door.  The other great thing about actually shopping in this place is that it's like a treasure hunt.  I walk over to a bin or shelf of used books/magazines/CDs and start digging.  More times than not I find some little nugget of awesome.   Try and get this same experience off Amazon.


When I was in grad school there was a local used book shop run by this one guy, always there, always reading.

I'd find those gems: a crisp, never read Tropic of Cancer. A first editon Raise High the Roof Beam. Voltaire in 22 volumes.

The shop had a small front and a cavern behind it. I'd bring to the counter a stack of books that I figured would cost about fifty bucks.

He'd look up from an arcane volume and say in a coarse bark, "Twenty."

The store vanished around 2002.
 
2014-04-11 06:25:55 PM  
Forward-going, malls should be made of businesses that offer services. You can't mail a haircut, massage, nor daycare. One-stop-shopping would remain appealing.
 
hej
2014-04-11 06:34:21 PM  

Intrepid00: The Dogs of War: Ah yes, Rolling Acres and Randall Mall. Two shining examples of why I want out of Ohio

So what is it about Ohio that makes people want out so bad they become astronauts?


When I moved out around 2000, the idea of getting a job paying $10/hour seemed like winning the lottery.
 
2014-04-11 06:36:11 PM  

evilmousse: Forward-going, malls should be made of businesses that offer services. You can't mail a haircut, massage, nor daycare. One-stop-shopping would remain appealing.


This. I can get everything at PAC SUN, Brookstone, Pier One, etc., for cheaper in a day through Amazon Prime. Likewise all the clothes stores, accessory stores, etc. But that's because I'm a guy. When I wanted a French-cuff shirt the other day I walked into Macy's and the novices behind the counter were "pretty sure" they didn't have any. So they spent 12 minutes trying to figure out on their computer whether they had any. Then 8 minutes looking around on the shelves. Then they ordered me one online. I ordered by my measurements--17" neck, 33" sleeve--because that WORKS for me as a man in present-day American clothing culture. But for my wife? No way is she ever going to buy any fitted clothing online.  Maybe a bath robe or a '40s-style sized hat. But for a petite woman with birthing hips, the mall is still the Temple of Consumerism and probably always will be. Gotta try that action on your real self.
 
2014-04-11 10:06:22 PM  

nekom: Earguy: I see those pictures and think I should become a scrap metal thief.  I could make a fortune off those escalators.

They aren't exactly made out of platinum you know.  After 4 years being closed, anything valuable enough to warrant the work involved in getting is has been gotten.


I just took in:

1 refrigerator
1 hand dolly
3 old computer chassis
3 metal bi-fold closet doors

weight in:  6400 lbs
weight out: 5940 lbs

Total payout= $50.50 for (mixed tin)

I'm thinking you can still make a good buck if you wanted to separate out the various metals and take in discrete loads of each.
 
2014-04-11 10:10:13 PM  

Wangiss: False. City Creek in Salt Lake City is absolutely enormous and making money hand over fist.


How close is that to downtown? The tearing down of the two downtown malls probably created an opening for a new mall to jump into the market. But I haven't been to SLC since before the big redevelopment downtown so I don't know how much of the former mall business stayed downtown in the redeveloped centers and how much had to find a new home.
 
2014-04-12 05:54:52 AM  
As for malls vs downtown, Chicago has malls downtown.
 
2014-04-12 09:38:45 AM  

Benjimin_Dover: nekom: Earguy: I see those pictures and think I should become a scrap metal thief.  I could make a fortune off those escalators.

They aren't exactly made out of platinum you know.  After 4 years being closed, anything valuable enough to warrant the work involved in getting is has been gotten.

I just took in:

1 refrigerator
1 hand dolly
3 old computer chassis
3 metal bi-fold closet doors

weight in:  6400 lbs
weight out: 5940 lbs

Total payout= $50.50 for (mixed tin)

I'm thinking you can still make a good buck if you wanted to separate out the various metals and take in discrete loads of each.


Am I missing something?   The last 7 items on that list should be, what, maybe a few hundred pounds, and I am probably being high there.

So, you had a 3 ton fridge??
 
2014-04-12 10:18:57 AM  

dletter: Benjimin_Dover: nekom: Earguy: I see those pictures and think I should become a scrap metal thief.  I could make a fortune off those escalators.

They aren't exactly made out of platinum you know.  After 4 years being closed, anything valuable enough to warrant the work involved in getting is has been gotten.

I just took in:

1 refrigerator
1 hand dolly
3 old computer chassis
3 metal bi-fold closet doors

weight in:  6400 lbs
weight out: 5940 lbs

Total payout= $50.50 for (mixed tin)

I'm thinking you can still make a good buck if you wanted to separate out the various metals and take in discrete loads of each.

Am I missing something?   The last 7 items on that list should be, what, maybe a few hundred pounds, and I am probably being high there.

So, you had a 3 ton fridge??


6400-5940= 460 lbs.

I'd say the fridge was prolly 350 of that or so.
 
2014-04-12 11:11:59 AM  

Benjimin_Dover: dletter: Benjimin_Dover: nekom: Earguy: I see those pictures and think I should become a scrap metal thief.  I could make a fortune off those escalators.

They aren't exactly made out of platinum you know.  After 4 years being closed, anything valuable enough to warrant the work involved in getting is has been gotten.

I just took in:

1 refrigerator
1 hand dolly
3 old computer chassis
3 metal bi-fold closet doors

weight in:  6400 lbs
weight out: 5940 lbs

Total payout= $50.50 for (mixed tin)

I'm thinking you can still make a good buck if you wanted to separate out the various metals and take in discrete loads of each.

Am I missing something?   The last 7 items on that list should be, what, maybe a few hundred pounds, and I am probably being high there.

So, you had a 3 ton fridge??

6400-5940= 460 lbs.

I'd say the fridge was prolly 350 of that or so.


So, where did the 6,400 come from.   You keep a running total of everything you have?

/sorry I'm familiar with any of that stuff at all.
 
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