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(Daily Mail)   Just look at the mall rats scurrying around the decks of the deserted shopping malls of America   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 178
    More: Interesting, shopping centers  
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18336 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2014 at 10:36 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-11 12:50:18 AM  

Zombie DJ: economy


^ this

There was a show I was watching the other day (Daily Show?) that was talking about how malls are dying off not due to the economy, but because of our changing of how we're buying more and more things online. Why would I go to a mall to try to find product "X" (and very well not find it at all while there) when I could just pop on Amazon and have it here in a couple days?
 
2014-04-11 12:50:40 AM  

Klaumbaz: 2chris2: I think it's a combination of things that have led to the decline of malls.

1. People shopping at Walmart instead of the big stores like Sears that were always half the square footage of malls.

2. Video arcades, and hanging out in general, no longer bringing in teenagers, who now play video games at home.

3. Everyone doing a lot of their shopping online now instead of at the mall.

Actually, it's 3, 1, then 2 for leading causes.

internet shopping destroying brick and mortar stores, Walmart has ALOT in it, and arcades never drew big shipping crowds, just us nerds who wanted to play the latest quarter eating game.


I'm not sure 3 has overtaken 1 if you count other shopping trips to big stores besides Walmart.  There is still a large contingent of people who want stuff and they want it now even if Amazon Prime can get it to us the next day.

I'll buy things online, but I prefer to burn gas to get my hands on things as quickly as possible instead.

2 is really just silly if you think about it.  Sure, I went to the mall plenty of times just to play video games when I was a young teen, but I was spending a quarter at a time.  At best, I was supporting just ONE business in the whole mall and my contribution might have been as much as $3-4 each time I visited.

How the hell did those places make money?  It would be interesting to see their books.

Back in the '70s I used to go to a pinball arcade place before video games became a thing.  It closed abruptly after being raided as a front for a drug operation.  Ah, now I see the potential in that business model.
 
2014-04-11 12:51:18 AM  

cretinbob: [gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com image 477x277]


Thanks to a mild lazy eye, I never have and never will be able to make any sense at all of these, so... point?
 
2014-04-11 12:54:03 AM  

The Dogs of War: Ah yes, Rolling Acres and Randall Mall. Two shining examples of why I want out of Ohio


Texas, Montana, Washington = pretty decent life for me
Ohio = pure Hell which I'm spending my entire life recovering from.

Yeah, Ohio can pretty much kiss my ass.
 
2014-04-11 01:01:41 AM  

digistil: gfid: Walt_Jizzney: From TFA:

'There's nothing more profound and sobering then being inside an abandoned mall. It's a powerful symbol of America's economic decline,'


This has little to do with any "economic decline" and more to do with the changing landscape of suburbia and of real estate trends in the retail sector, not to mention the impact of the Internet to "window shop" as it were.

Malls have a shelf life. New malls replace them. Times change. It's life, nothing more.

FFS the mall they were showing had a JcPenny's.

Can you tell me what mall has been replaced with a new one in the last 10 years?

Hint:  There has not been a new mall built in the US since 2005.

You're right that it's more to do with "changing landscape of suburbia" than "economic decline", but nobody goes to the mall anymore and nobody wants to go to the mall.    People want to go to specific stores and they go to shopping centers with parking lots that allow them to park right in front of those stores rather than making them wander through a huge building full of stores.

If I were to take a short trip to the mall probably less than 5 miles away from me, I would pass numerous stores on the way selling the exact same shiat as I could get in the mall.....actually, I would have a much bigger selection from the stores on the way to the mall than I would in the actual mall.

Yet even the first modern mall in the world is investing millions in itself


Tax money is being used.  A city is desperately trying to save a dying mall.

It won't work.
 
2014-04-11 01:02:05 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Omahawg: the mall here died when all the stores bought their own land to build a 'lifestyle center' instead of leasing from general growth

it's like an empty tomb now

it was wall to wall commercialism and thronged with shoppers not even ten years ago.

Which one? Crossroads? General Growth really helped speed up their own demise when as each business' lease was up for renewal, they kept demanding a 5 year lease at increased rates. That's what chased out just about every business from the Mall of the Bluffs as their leases expired (that and the previously mentioned super-pushy sellers of dodgy cosmetics, who I think also had Xmas kiosks at Westroads and Oak View Mall as well). Even the usual cruddy Asian food spot in the food court decided to leave.

Metro Crossing FTW


lol

duh. mall o' the bluffs....where I worked for two turks in that end corner across from the movie theaters before it was taken over by s'barro. a long, long time ago....
 
2014-04-11 01:08:36 AM  

MBZ321: ...As a country, we are way over retailed.



So farking much this!!!
 
2014-04-11 01:12:10 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Cheeseface: Yea I don't particularly understand this mindset that this is a sign of economic decline.

All the businesses moved to open air structures, or moved to more modern mall facilities.

Note how all of your Anytown, USA "pathetic abandoned malls" were all built 30-40 years ago without any renovation afterwards.

It's a shame, because the design and layout of the malls in TFA are pretty cool.  I especially like this interior:

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x563]

And this entryway to what I assume was some sort of anchor store:

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x561]

I mourn the loss of the 'massive slabs of imposing concrete' school of mall design.


Imagine if somebody turned that into a giant lasertag or paintball arena.
 
2014-04-11 01:13:45 AM  

ph0rk: The mausoleums of capitalism, watch how they crumble.


Some malls seem to chug along forever.  The Garden State Plaza Mall located just outside New York City in Paramus, New Jersey was built in 1957 as an open air mall.  The mall was enclosed in the 1980s.  Since then it has undergone several expansions, the most recent expansion was completed last month.

The GSP mall as it looked in the early 1970s

4.bp.blogspot.com

Same view today

media.northjersey.com
 
2014-04-11 01:24:58 AM  

Notabunny: Malls are what happen when a city lets its downtown decline. I'll take a vibrant downtown to a sprawl mall any day.


Yep, this.

The last time I was in a mall, it was because the county had a satellite license plate office there.  It was less convenient to get to than the downtown courthouse, but it had longer hours.  When they cut the hours back to the same as the courthouse, I had no reason to go.  Then they moved it out of the mall a few years ago.  That mall now has a payday cash advance place, a "life coaching" place, some cell phone stores, a gym, and a high school for problem children in it.

The only reason it won't get torn down is likely the school.
 
2014-04-11 01:36:28 AM  

ph0rk: The mausoleums of capitalism, watch how they crumble.


Casualties of the shift to on-line shopping.
 
2014-04-11 01:45:27 AM  

Omahawg: TV's Vinnie: Omahawg: the mall here died when all the stores bought their own land to build a 'lifestyle center' instead of leasing from general growth

it's like an empty tomb now

it was wall to wall commercialism and thronged with shoppers not even ten years ago.

Which one? Crossroads? General Growth really helped speed up their own demise when as each business' lease was up for renewal, they kept demanding a 5 year lease at increased rates. That's what chased out just about every business from the Mall of the Bluffs as their leases expired (that and the previously mentioned super-pushy sellers of dodgy cosmetics, who I think also had Xmas kiosks at Westroads and Oak View Mall as well). Even the usual cruddy Asian food spot in the food court decided to leave.

Metro Crossing FTW

lol

duh. mall o' the bluffs....where I worked for two turks in that end corner across from the movie theaters before it was taken over by s'barro. a long, long time ago....


I remember that place (not the same owners of "King Kong Gyros" that's at the former DQ on Dodge, BTW). Loved their stuff. Hell, you may have carved me a gyro or two once. :)

MoTB was sold off to some other group a year or so ago, but I haven't seen any improvement, but it seems it can't sink any lower. Last time I went there was a couple years back and because I had to (renewal of drivers license and that's where the DMV is at).

And BTW, if you see a kiosk titled "Dead Sea Treasures" this holiday season, stay the fark clear of those cultist psychos. They sign up with all of the General Growth Properties malls in the area and they're like a swarm of gnats and just as hard to get rid of.
 
2014-04-11 01:47:13 AM  

gfid: thatboyoverthere: While my local mall, despite being known for being a bit white trashy, is doing rather well, to the point of making strip malls in it's parking lots. Also I live in Minnesota so we got the Mall of America, and that just got a 325 million dollar budget to make larger, and is going to have a second hotel added to it. Pretty much it's working to be an 80's cyberpunk mall.

Oh my, a 2nd hotel?

I'm pretty sure one of the biggest malls - probably the biggest - I've ever been in had 2 hotels back in the '80s.

I hope that $325 million is private funding..  If so, Mall of America seems to be doing it right.  I guess you have to build something massive to do it right.  FFS, Mall of America is actually a tourist attraction for some people.  I can't think of a single reason I would want to go there.

I guess it acts as a people-sink.  Sort of like a heat sink, it attracts and collects all the people together so that other areas are less crowded.


The Mall of America blows ass. I was there once and will never go back. You're right though, for some reason it's a huge tourist attraction. I know quite a few people who will take a 2 or 3 day "vacation" there. I can't imagine anything that hellish.
 
2014-04-11 01:49:53 AM  
Make it into a huge adult playground with different bars, restaurants and clubs.
 
2014-04-11 02:03:05 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Omahawg: TV's Vinnie: Omahawg: the mall here died when all the stores bought their own land to build a 'lifestyle center' instead of leasing from general growth

it's like an empty tomb now

it was wall to wall commercialism and thronged with shoppers not even ten years ago.

Which one? Crossroads? General Growth really helped speed up their own demise when as each business' lease was up for renewal, they kept demanding a 5 year lease at increased rates. That's what chased out just about every business from the Mall of the Bluffs as their leases expired (that and the previously mentioned super-pushy sellers of dodgy cosmetics, who I think also had Xmas kiosks at Westroads and Oak View Mall as well). Even the usual cruddy Asian food spot in the food court decided to leave.

Metro Crossing FTW

lol

duh. mall o' the bluffs....where I worked for two turks in that end corner across from the movie theaters before it was taken over by s'barro. a long, long time ago....

I remember that place (not the same owners of "King Kong Gyros" that's at the former DQ on Dodge, BTW). Loved their stuff. Hell, you may have carved me a gyro or two once. :)

MoTB was sold off to some other group a year or so ago, but I haven't seen any improvement, but it seems it can't sink any lower. Last time I went there was a couple years back and because I had to (renewal of drivers license and that's where the DMV is at).

And BTW, if you see a kiosk titled "Dead Sea Treasures" this holiday season, stay the fark clear of those cultist psychos. They sign up with all of the General Growth Properties malls in the area and they're like a swarm of gnats and just as hard to get rid of.


philly steak sandwiches is what they specialized in. I think it's been gone since 1990 at least.

go back and look around. the only food place left is little king where the old little king was in the 80s. it's.....weird, man. it's weird.
 
2014-04-11 02:04:06 AM  

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: The Mall of America blows ass. I was there once and will never go back. You're right though, for some reason it's a huge tourist attraction. I know quite a few people who will take a 2 or 3 day "vacation" there. I can't imagine anything that hellish.


Yep - my opinion is it's a mall (which is bad enough), but bigger.  I've never been.  I probably wouldn't even go if I were staying in a hotel across the street from it.
 
2014-04-11 02:18:31 AM  
To make up for the Cleveland hate in this thread (not all undeserved, I grant) I'd like to point out Cleveland can be a great place to live near, if not in the city limits of.

Kick-ass libraries: I had no idea why so many libraries were listed as some of the best in the nation until I left NE Ohio and actually SAW the rest of the nation.  We have more library use (per capita, I think) than any other state in the union.  We take libraries seriously.

Add to that great metro parks, some of the best museums in the country (and I'm a museum snob - possibly because Ohio made me one), a fantastic collection of theaters, and some damn fine breweries.  (Don't just limit yourself to Great Lakes.  Willoughby Brewing Co has a peanut butter cup coffee porter that is slap someone in the face good).  (Seriously, in the face.)

The schools...  run the gamut.  There are some excellent ones, but it depends on where you live (though that's true most places, in my experience).

We even have jobs, we just don't have a lot of new jobs.  That's the real problem.  Progressive, the Evil Clinic, and the local universities can't hire everyone.  But if you lock into one of the good jobs and make sure your cheap house is insulated with liquid fire, if need be, to keep heating costs down you'll have a good quality of life to look forward to.

tl:dr:  If you're a cheap dork with a good job who doesn't mind cold weather, NE Ohio can be pretty great.  It's not for everybody, but there's good times to be had.
 
2014-04-11 02:20:34 AM  

Harry_Seldon: The owner's should get a bunch of people in Hollywood grade Zombie costumes, and charge people to escape the Zombie apocalypse.


It's means "It is" or "it has".
Unless you mean to write "owners' property", or what have you... Otherwise, no comma necessary.

/grammar naziing
//language is my math
///SYNTAX ERROR!
 
2014-04-11 02:25:19 AM  
Omahawg:

go back and look around. the only food place left is little king where the old little king was in the 80s. it's.....weird, man. it's weird.

Yep. A whole row of empty spaces with Little King at the end, which happens to be the most jinxed spot out of the entire food court. It's been a Little King to a BBQ place to a Quizno's and I think a few other things as well until it became a Little King again. No business has ever lasted more than two years in that space.

Like I said, when even the junky Chinese food place didn't want to hang around, you knew things were going downhill.

Still even that mall didn't get punched in the proverbial balls like Crossroads did.

(Bonus fun: remote-controlled drone flight thru Crossroads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwF6WfX2-_w   )
 
2014-04-11 02:28:16 AM  
Growing up in Cleveland, i'm not sure if i've ever visited either of these malls, but probably... I do know that 'my' mall back then is also now dead, Westgate.

Also, Tower City, right at the Terminal Tower at downtown Public Square was a shining example of civic resurgence as recently as the early 1990's, but its struggling....  It went from having a high end Warner Bros shop to having a .99 cent store.... Its hard to describe such a descrepancy without witnessing it firsthand.
 
2014-04-11 02:30:53 AM  

K.B.O. Winston: To make up for the Cleveland hate in this thread (not all undeserved, I grant) I'd like to point out Cleveland can be a great place to live near, if not in the city limits of.

Kick-ass libraries: I had no idea why so many libraries were listed as some of the best in the nation until I left NE Ohio and actually SAW the rest of the nation.  We have more library use (per capita, I think) than any other state in the union.  We take libraries seriously.

Add to that great metro parks, some of the best museums in the country (and I'm a museum snob - possibly because Ohio made me one), a fantastic collection of theaters, and some damn fine breweries.  (Don't just limit yourself to Great Lakes.  Willoughby Brewing Co has a peanut butter cup coffee porter that is slap someone in the face good).  (Seriously, in the face.)

The schools...  run the gamut.  There are some excellent ones, but it depends on where you live (though that's true most places, in my experience).

We even have jobs, we just don't have a lot of new jobs.  That's the real problem.  Progressive, the Evil Clinic, and the local universities can't hire everyone.  But if you lock into one of the good jobs and make sure your cheap house is insulated with liquid fire, if need be, to keep heating costs down you'll have a good quality of life to look forward to.

tl:dr:  If you're a cheap dork with a good job who doesn't mind cold weather, NE Ohio can be pretty great.  It's not for everybody, but there's good times to be had.


Nah, Cleveland is as bad as its reputation.  I've been there.  It's a shiathole.  I actually checked out 2 museums.  One of them wasn't too bad, but it's a place where rivers catch fire and it snows too much and it's in Ohio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpNnfpCV1wI&feature=kp
 
2014-04-11 02:45:10 AM  
I hear Cleveland is actually on the rebound.
 
2014-04-11 02:59:02 AM  

Kuta: Ficoce:
As consumers Baby Boomer families flocked to malls with their equity money good incomes, largely from manufacturing careers (both blue and white collar), they turned the malls into social centers.

The success of the American Mall was phenomenon based largely upon demographics. Baby Boomers began to turn 20 in 1965. America was still the most prosperous nation by far. Young families flocked to the suburbs to buy cheap housing with their solid middle class incomes. Naturally they needed somewhere to spend their money.

Home equity lines of credit had almost nothing to do with it. People started getting scammed that way after they actually *had built some equity* into the late 80s and early 90s.


Must be young. Guess you don't remember mortgage interest rates at 12% where most of the payment went to interest. Before the, *had built some equity* into the late 80s and early 90s, to be able to buy a home someone in their 30's or 40's with good credit needed needed at least 20% down. If in your 20's, 30% and a co-signer was common.  What did loosening mortgage credit do? Introduce buying a mortgage for 1 or 2% "down". In other words, for points. Home values steadily shot up every year about 11%. For example, if you bought a $100,000 house - in as little as 3 years you had close to a $45,000 credit line when they started the $125% home equity program. This is where the equity came from. Prior to this, taking out a second mortgage was expensive and not done lightly. Had very little to do with being a boomer.

The "old" baby boomers buy up in housing and trade in cars every couple years. The kids of these baby boomers? Well, they went to the mall. Literally. Their parents funded this. The "young" baby boomers didn't have a lot of experience with the "free money" equity brought them. They didn't have to save up $100,000 to buy their $300,000 house; just had to start making payments and were given a equity line.

Now, to many people going to the mall meant grabbing some crap at the food court, seeing a movie, maybe buying a new pair of shoes - but a good percentage of those people spent real money. I'm talking about women with 200 handbags, 250 pairs of shoes in the closet, spending a grand on makeup every month - spending $15 grand on Christmas presents. Spend money at the anchor stores, spend a little at their neighbors. Give the kids the card to spend at Aeropostail and Zumies. Put it on the credit cards and then pay the CC off with home equity.

This was steady income for the stores and, in turn, the malls. By this time having a Mom and Pop in a major mall was unheard of. Public stock companies had the capital the malls required. Public companies all do the same thing - they make money, with increases in the percentage the goal every year. They did really well.

People were used to their homes increasing in value every year. It was easy - values went up, interest rates went down. People took advantage and malls profited. When the bubble burst, malls began to close doors.

Don't believe me? I'm living it. In 1988 I had a night job in college cleaning banks. I wanted free money, too, but had half a dozen bank managers from 3 different banks tell me what would happen. I guess you might call that insider, because they were making a boatload on mortgage sales. I bought a starter house and still live here. Never bought a new car or shopped at the mall. Everything is paid. Know what? it's lonely. Haven't seen most of my old friends in years. Many have moved to apartments and work all the time. I get calls from creditors all the time - people put my name down as a reference, so I know my friends are still around. A lot of people got caught up in this. I feel like I've got survivors syndrome. Don't know what to say. I'm at the airport a few weeks ago waiting for my wife to fly in. Talking to some others waiting. Everyone was agreeing the TSA sucked, etc, and I told them I took a train ride for a week with no TSA. The question came up, "What do you do for money?" I asked them what they had in mind. I really couldn't think of anything to say except, nothing. They were older than I was and could tell they probably worked hard - the look they gave me was pretty harsh. I mean, I'm busy all the time, but don't have my nose to any grindstone. I'm real busy right now planning a camping trip. (I'll probably go alone - had a couple guys that had the time, but they're 75 and I want to sit by the fire, not practice cpr.)  I should probably say day trader or casino gambler. I should pick up a minimum wage job for a few hours a week for spending money - I could tell people I build Big Macs and be part of the club.

Don't underestimate what the housing bubble did, and is still doing, to the economy.
 
2014-04-11 04:15:43 AM  
Wages peaked in this country  before these malls were built.

The malls are a symptom of 1. the inability of millions of Americans to maintain a lifestyle and 2. the refusal of Americans to pay inflated prices for crap made in China.
 
2014-04-11 04:25:40 AM  

wildcardjack: The Simpsons already did it.

And it's not all a sign of a collective decline. It's a sign that shopping moved away from these malls. Although if I were running a mall store I'd only be open evenings and weekends most of the year.



Oh no you wouldn't.  You'd have a lease that specifies the hours that your store MUST be open.  You'd have no choice about this unless you were big enough a chain to force the issue.  (Chick fil a comes to mind).

You'd be fined by the mall managment company for every minute past the mall opening time your store wasn't opened, and in most cases, you'd have to pay a small percentage of your sales to the managment company in addition to your rent.

That's how most standard malls work.   That's one of they many reasons why they're going the way of the dodo.
 
2014-04-11 04:38:44 AM  
i860.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-11 04:46:50 AM  
oukewldave:

It's because those areas became very attractive and successful.  Same thing happened to Euclid Square mall and is now happening to Great Lakes mall in Mentor now.  It soon shall be closed.

Hahaha your Fark™ euphemism for ghetto culture made me chuckle. But which came first, the area become attractive and successful, or the mall?

Here, the standard life cycle of a mall is Birth\remodel\slow death\Hip Hop Culture shops, "ethnic" stores and kiosks valor\closing\Fark article. :P

gfid:
Hint:  There has not been a new mall built in the US since 2005.

False. But as other people have stated upthread, I'm not limiting my definition to the indoor-model.
 
2014-04-11 05:22:38 AM  
I visit a local mall about every two or three years. I am always amazed that the bookstore, can't remember the chain, is still in business. I can understand a used or rare bookstore, but paperbacks? Best sellers? What is the set of people who go to a mall but don't have the internet? And buy books.

I don't know. Maybe next time I go they will be closed.
 
2014-04-11 05:26:22 AM  
I don't think I have been to an indoor mall in 10 years. The final straw for me was going through one where there were lots of cellphone kiosks and every single one thought it was vital to scream at you to get your attention.
 
2014-04-11 05:49:28 AM  

K.B.O. Winston: To make up for the Cleveland hate in this thread (not all undeserved, I grant) I'd like to point out Cleveland can be a great place to live near, if not in the city limits of.

Kick-ass libraries: I had no idea why so many libraries were listed as some of the best in the nation until I left NE Ohio and actually SAW the rest of the nation.  We have more library use (per capita, I think) than any other state in the union.  We take libraries seriously.

Add to that great metro parks, some of the best museums in the country (and I'm a museum snob - possibly because Ohio made me one), a fantastic collection of theaters, and some damn fine breweries.  (Don't just limit yourself to Great Lakes.  Willoughby Brewing Co has a peanut butter cup coffee porter that is slap someone in the face good).  (Seriously, in the face.)

The schools...  run the gamut.  There are some excellent ones, but it depends on where you live (though that's true most places, in my experience).

We even have jobs, we just don't have a lot of new jobs.  That's the real problem.  Progressive, the Evil Clinic, and the local universities can't hire everyone.  But if you lock into one of the good jobs and make sure your cheap house is insulated with liquid fire, if need be, to keep heating costs down you'll have a good quality of life to look forward to.

tl:dr:  If you're a cheap dork with a good job who doesn't mind cold weather, NE Ohio can be pretty great.  It's not for everybody, but there's good times to be had.


I went through this whole thread just laughing my ass off at some of this. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, and of course, this is Fark where everyone is sure they'll go to New York / Chicago / LA / Miami / Whatever and find high paying work so they can live in a postage stamp apartment and go to overpriced clubs and that will be so very much better.

Me? I'm right here with you man. I'm IT Networking, and in about a year I'm p going to be sewing up a job with Hyland Software, Teledyne or the Clinic as a SysAdmin or maybe in network support.

Let the weaklings and limp wrists leave. Cleveland doesn't want em or need em. This is a tough town, and it's always been that way.  And when the medical boom hits in the next five to ten years, THIS is going to be one of the capitols of that massive growth and everyone who had the brains to stick around and lay down roots are going to be the ones reaping the benefits.

Sure, it's not perfect, but nowhere is. And at least here, I don't need to make 80K a year to just SURVIVE.
 
2014-04-11 05:54:21 AM  

gfid: K.B.O. Winston: To make up for the Cleveland hate in this thread (not all undeserved, I grant) I'd like to point out Cleveland can be a great place to live near, if not in the city limits of.

Kick-ass libraries: I had no idea why so many libraries were listed as some of the best in the nation until I left NE Ohio and actually SAW the rest of the nation.  We have more library use (per capita, I think) than any other state in the union.  We take libraries seriously.

Add to that great metro parks, some of the best museums in the country (and I'm a museum snob - possibly because Ohio made me one), a fantastic collection of theaters, and some damn fine breweries.  (Don't just limit yourself to Great Lakes.  Willoughby Brewing Co has a peanut butter cup coffee porter that is slap someone in the face good).  (Seriously, in the face.)

The schools...  run the gamut.  There are some excellent ones, but it depends on where you live (though that's true most places, in my experience).

We even have jobs, we just don't have a lot of new jobs.  That's the real problem.  Progressive, the Evil Clinic, and the local universities can't hire everyone.  But if you lock into one of the good jobs and make sure your cheap house is insulated with liquid fire, if need be, to keep heating costs down you'll have a good quality of life to look forward to.

tl:dr:  If you're a cheap dork with a good job who doesn't mind cold weather, NE Ohio can be pretty great.  It's not for everybody, but there's good times to be had.

Nah, Cleveland is as bad as its reputation.  I've been there.  It's a shiathole.  I actually checked out 2 museums.  One of them wasn't too bad, but it's a place where rivers catch fire and it snows too much and it's in Ohio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpNnfpCV1wI&feature=kp


You know how I know you've NEVER been to Cleveland?

Because you think it snows too much.
 
2014-04-11 06:08:25 AM  
Triangle Town Center mall Raleigh North Carolina 2 years from now.
/I worked there, and if you've ever been there, you know what a run down sh*t hole of a mall it is.
 
2014-04-11 06:09:13 AM  
Life without people. In one hundred years, it will be a forest.
 
2014-04-11 06:25:59 AM  
Chrissie Hynde wrote the theme song.
Way to go Ohio! ("My City Was Gone" )
 
2014-04-11 06:46:10 AM  
Cheeseface:

Note how all of your Anytown, USA "pathetic abandoned malls" were all built 30-40 years ago without any renovation afterwards.

The pictures all look like the two malls around here that are still open.  Same exact floor plan.
 
2014-04-11 06:54:50 AM  
It's the internet, stupid.
 
2014-04-11 07:13:45 AM  

Disciple_of_Trogdor: You know how I know you've NEVER been to Cleveland?

Because you think it snows too much.


I actually have been to Cleveland.  I left sunny Arizona to go there for a weekend of work.  I was at this job site for 24 hours - seriously, I worked 7 AM on a Saturday until about 7 AM on Sunday.  It snowed to whole time.  I even picked up a snow shovel, because living in Arizona I wondered what it was like to shovel snow.   It wasn't that fun, but fortunately a co-worker had a snow plow attached to the front of his pickup and he seemed to enjoy plowing the whole parking lot.

Yeah - it snowed way too much.  Maybe I just caught it on a bad weekend.

Seriously, who the fark outfits their pickup with a snow plow unless you live somewhere that gets too much snow?

I live in Colorado now.  I don't know anyone who has plow blades attached to the front of their cars and we get a fair amount of snow here.

So, I can sum up my trip to Cleveland like this.

/It snows so much that ordinary people attacjh snow plow blades to the front of their pickup trucks.
//It's so boring that people actually enjoy shoveling/plowing snow
///The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame sucks ass.
////you can't clean up some city grime - some shiat just doesn't wash off.  I saw that in Cleveland  (I've seen it other places too - they try to make the old part of the city new.....it doesn't work.  It's still a shiathioe)
//Don't take it personally if you're from Cleveland.  I'm not judging you personally.
 
2014-04-11 07:19:59 AM  

gfid: Disciple_of_Trogdor: You know how I know you've NEVER been to Cleveland?

Because you think it snows too much.

I actually have been to Cleveland.  I left sunny Arizona to go there for a weekend of work.  I was at this job site for 24 hours - seriously, I worked 7 AM on a Saturday until about 7 AM on Sunday.  It snowed to whole time.  I even picked up a snow shovel, because living in Arizona I wondered what it was like to shovel snow.   It wasn't that fun, but fortunately a co-worker had a snow plow attached to the front of his pickup and he seemed to enjoy plowing the whole parking lot.

Yeah - it snowed way too much.  Maybe I just caught it on a bad weekend.

Seriously, who the fark outfits their pickup with a snow plow unless you live somewhere that gets too much snow?

I live in Colorado now.  I don't know anyone who has plow blades attached to the front of their cars and we get a fair amount of snow here.

So, I can sum up my trip to Cleveland like this.

/It snows so much that ordinary people attacjh snow plow blades to the front of their pickup trucks.
//It's so boring that people actually enjoy shoveling/plowing snow
///The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame sucks ass.
////you can't clean up some city grime - some shiat just doesn't wash off.  I saw that in Cleveland  (I've seen it other places too - they try to make the old part of the city new.....it doesn't work.  It's still a shiathioe)
//Don't take it personally if you're from Cleveland.  I'm not judging you personally.


I used to visit Phoenix a lot. I remember abandoned strip malls and a day where it was 115 degrees in the shade. I guess some people don't mind that.

Don't take it personally...
 
Skr
2014-04-11 07:23:15 AM  
Here in the Minnesota Twin Cities area there are still plenty of malls going strong. The Eden Prairie mall where Mallrats was filmed had some renovation done ten years or so ago, but it is mostly still there.
Northdale, Rosedale, and Woodbury malls are all decent enough servicing the North side of the metro. Mall of America anchors the southside, with a few higher class malls in the surrounding areas.

As directly relating to this article. There was the Brookdale Center mall in the west suburb city Brooklyn Center that was over 50 years old that finally succumbed to time, urban blight, and ghettofication. Crime rates in the area were among the highest of the state so the mall basically was bled dry by theft, vandalism, and keeping an old building alive. It died a slow death. Around 5 years ago it was officially closed, though it was probably closed well before that to the eyes of many locals.

Recently heard that there is a plan to demolish the husk, and start a fresh new mall area to try to bring the place back to life. I'm assuming that the planners for the project have a good idea on the amount of crime deterrence they'll need to build into the project to make it viable.

Malls (indoor and strip) seem a decent enough place to go looking for an outfit when looking for non-specifics. 3 or 4 large anchor department stores and a smattering of chains all in one place is cheaper on gas than carting around town, with the benefit of trying on the clothing.

Plus Auntie Anne's pretzels, Heart attack inducing bliss. Extra salt doused with butter.
/MoA is more of a Human Theme Park within spitting distance of the main Minnesota airport and its slew of hotels.
 
2014-04-11 07:29:44 AM  
Go here

http://deadmalls.com/ .

I actually despise those new "power centers", especially this winter. If you want to go to several stores, you wind up climbing over piles of snow, or you need to drive from one end of the shopping center to the other.

In spite of a Walmart supercenter opening up here, we still have an enclosed mall here with >95% occupancy, plus a thriving downtown. The developers are even creating retail spaces for mom 'n' pop stores on the lover-floors of new mufti-dwelling blocks.

Economic downturn be damned.
 
2014-04-11 07:36:38 AM  

0z79: cretinbob: [gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com image 477x277]

Thanks to a mild lazy eye, I never have and never will be able to make any sense at all of these, so... point?


it is a reference to the movie mall rats.....which seems apropos considering the headline and thread subject
 
2014-04-11 07:46:32 AM  
Throw in a few shambling zombies, and I'd swear those were shots from  Dawn of the Dead,

/the good version from 1979, not the terrible remake
 
2014-04-11 08:35:09 AM  
Mall of America is an aweful mall to have to shop at because of the amusement park in the middle, all the stores ring it. Once you're above the first level you cant cut across the middle.

I like the new "town center" or fake downtown concept. In NoVA, there are still several busy indoor malls, but they started building town centers with normal mall stores and more upscale restaurants on the ground floor with offices above in the core and then ring it with parking garages and apartments/condos and townhomes. It works here because Fairfax county didnt plan growth, so its way more convenient than the real downtown Fairfax. The streets inside the town center can then be easily blocked for for festivals or fairs to further bring people to the area. Without really impacting people who just want to hit a store or eat.

There's a failed mall in Springfield that is on the same decline where the only thing still opened is a Sears and Macys. The car dealers in the area use the parking lot as a storage lot. It probably fell victim to the "those people" problem, but it is also basically equidistant from the upscale Tyson's Corner malls and Pentagon City, and a Mills brand indoor outlet mall, which probably split the shoppers off, plus Old Town Alexandria with its specialty shops and some chain stores.
 
2014-04-11 08:35:20 AM  
The four malls nearest me have all expanded in the past few years, and the largest just broke ground on a million sq tf expansion. Malls aren't going anywhere.
 
2014-04-11 08:41:24 AM  

August11: I visit a local mall about every two or three years. I am always amazed that the bookstore, can't remember the chain, is still in business. I can understand a used or rare bookstore, but paperbacks? Best sellers? What is the set of people who go to a mall but don't have the internet? And buy books.

I don't know. Maybe next time I go they will be closed.


I regularly shop at this book store that sells used/new books.  http://www.montclairbookcenter.com/

This store does biz on the net, but I like going to the store.  The building is old.....it's got a tin ceiling.    The combination of 100+ year old building and old books gives the place a wonderfully musty smell.  I get a contact high just walking in the door.  The other great thing about actually shopping in this place is that it's like a treasure hunt.  I walk over to a bin or shelf of used books/magazines/CDs and start digging.  More times than not I find some little nugget of awesome.   Try and get this same experience off Amazon.
 
2014-04-11 08:59:44 AM  

0z79: Yeah, Ohio can pretty much kiss my ass.


It's easy to hate on Ohio now, but the fact remains that Ohio was kicked extra special hard in the nutz by the de-industrialization of the USA.  Ohio was once a manufacturing powerhouse that provided millions good paying jobs.  When those jobs went overseas, there was nothing to replace them.   Other states lost as many, or more, factory jobs....New Jersey for example.  Unlike Ohio, New Jersey as fortunate enough to be stuck between Philly and New York City, when big finance took over in those cities, there was enough spillover into NJ to keep the place afloat until Depression 2.0.  Ohio, Michigan, and the other former Midwest manufacturing states are really the victims of policies set in Washington and Wall St., we really need to stop blaming the victims.
 
2014-04-11 09:15:08 AM  

MBZ321: What purpose to malls really serve anymore?


Third places and/or modern-day town squares for adolescents and young adults. Except that some of these adolescents get so rowdy that they damage the malls' commercial functions.
 
2014-04-11 09:19:46 AM  

hausman007: The streets inside the town center can then be easily blocked for for festivals or fairs to further bring people to the area.


That's because the streets aren't public streets and are privately owned by the shopping center. This has the advantage that they can get rid of annoying people who in a real downtown would hassle you and make shopping unpleasant. The downside is you have a mall manager deciding what a large part of the area's culture should be. You're unlikely to find anything unique or risque like you would on the side streets of an old downtown shopping area.
 
2014-04-11 09:25:33 AM  

j.lunatic: Third places and/or modern-day town squares for adolescents and young adults. Except that some of these adolescents get so rowdy that they damage the malls' commercial functions.


Third places are going to be a big issue with the coming collapse of retail. Automation, driverless delivery vehicles, improvements in remote sensing technology (think Kinect version 5 that can get your measurements as well as the best tailor), and many other factors are going to lead to the death of 90% of walk in retail. Since many of these places serve as the neighborhood or town social hub, there is going to be a huge unfulfilled need for something new. Churches probably have the most to gain since they're already setup to fill that social vacuum but a smart forward looking person could probably make a mint buying up retail spaces and converting them into shared experience centers.
 
2014-04-11 09:37:38 AM  

EngineerAU: j.lunatic: Third places and/or modern-day town squares for adolescents and young adults. Except that some of these adolescents get so rowdy that they damage the malls' commercial functions.

Third places are going to be a big issue with the coming collapse of retail. Automation, driverless delivery vehicles, improvements in remote sensing technology (think Kinect version 5 that can get your measurements as well as the best tailor), and many other factors are going to lead to the death of 90% of walk in retail. Since many of these places serve as the neighborhood or town social hub, there is going to be a huge unfulfilled need for something new. Churches probably have the most to gain since they're already setup to fill that social vacuum but a smart forward looking person could probably make a mint buying up retail spaces and converting them into shared experience centers.


Like a titty bar?
 
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