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(New Europe)   Europe should be wary of the official "U.S. position" on Ukraine   (neurope.eu ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Ukrainian State, Ukraine, Europe, Michael Peroutka, echo chamber, The American Conservative, Economy of Europe, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger  
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915 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Apr 2014 at 11:37 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



19 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2014-04-10 10:10:39 AM  
I've read only just a first half of the article, but the author sounds suspiciously like a Putin's puppet to me. I'm sure Fark won't stand for it.
 
2014-04-10 11:16:28 AM  
That's actually a pretty reasonable article.
 
2014-04-10 11:39:22 AM  

Grahor: I've read only just a first half of the article, but the author sounds suspiciously like a Putin's puppet to me. I'm sure Fark won't stand for it.


Hah! This thread is off to a great start!
 
2014-04-10 11:39:41 AM  

Grahor: I've read only just a first half of the article, but the author sounds suspiciously like a Putin's puppet to me. I'm sure Fark won't stand for it.


Putin still isn't going to sleep with you, you know.
 
2014-04-10 11:43:46 AM  
I'm pretty sure our stated position was "fark the EU," right before we fomented a coup.
 
2014-04-10 11:44:46 AM  
Some good points, some bad, and a very strong anti-revolutionary bias. Also assumption of evidence not in presence is the legitimacy of the Eastern Ukranian revolts.
 
2014-04-10 11:45:40 AM  
The United States has a complex position? Funny that "we're not going to fark with Russia unless they invade Poland and even then who knows?" is considered complex.
 
2014-04-10 11:53:34 AM  

Grahor: I've read only just a first half of the article, but the author sounds suspiciously like a Putin's puppet to me. I'm sure Fark won't stand for it.


Finally being honest. We appreciate it.
 
2014-04-10 11:57:19 AM  

Summercat: Some good points, some bad, and a very strong anti-revolutionary bias. Also assumption of evidence not in presence is the legitimacy of the Eastern Ukranian revolts.


The point of the article, "Europe would be wise to consider its own interests just in case American doesn't" is a good one, but that's about it.

The article also doesn't bring up other expansionist consequences for Europe if Russia gets away without penalty.
 
2014-04-10 12:22:33 PM  

Grahor: I've read only just a first half of the article, but the author sounds suspiciously like a Putin's puppet to me. I'm sure Fark won't stand for it.


I didn't get that at all.

Mentat: That's actually a pretty reasonable article.


Yea, that was more my reaction.
 
2014-04-10 12:22:56 PM  
Well, the US could help the Chechen rebels. It worked in Afghanistan.
 
2014-04-10 12:39:19 PM  

theknuckler_33: Grahor: I've read only just a first half of the article, but the author sounds suspiciously like a Putin's puppet to me. I'm sure Fark won't stand for it.

I didn't get that at all.

Mentat: That's actually a pretty reasonable article.

Yea, that was more my reaction.


No, he's right.  From the article:


It is underestimated the extent to which the February unconstitutional seizure of power in Kiev fractured the Ukrainian state.   All the talk of "taking Ukraine into Europe" doesn't change the fact that an elected president was chased out of office with the participation of some violent, radical elements that in comparison make, say, Greece's "Golden Dawn" seem tame.  (By contrast, protesters in Donetsk are rising up against an oligarch installed as governor, elected by nobody.)  Restoring a functioning country will demand insistent negotiations across the range of issues: the balance between presidential and parliamentary powers, language rights, reigning in extremists, delaying presidential elections (now scheduled for next month) to allow Ukraine's south and east to have a fair voice, and the relative strength between the "center" and the regions in a decentralized or even federalized order that restores local confidence.

As cooler heads can agree, Ukraine's future viability - if it has one - depends on restoring its status as a "bridge" between Europe and Russia and its balance among its regions.  Failure to achieve that can only lead to more "Crimeas" and "Donetsks," perhaps at some point spreading to western regions as central authority continues to break down.  Even more dangerously, the unelected "administration" in Kiev may decide that the only way to rescue the situation is a declaration of martial law and a harsh crackdown, something the legally elected Viktor Yanukovych only threatened in Kiev.  That could open the door to a level of violence we have not yet seen, with unforeseeable consequences.


That's clearly a pro-Putin position.  Now, maybe the article writer has some legitimate points here, but he obviously has a pro-Putin bias.
 
2014-04-10 01:29:36 PM  
New Europe is published in Brussels. I just googled "fat, stinking Belgians" and only got three hits. How disappointing.

/ i keed, one of my best friends is Belgian
 
2014-04-10 01:42:53 PM  
Is it missionary?
 
2014-04-10 02:24:14 PM  
Would Putin have ever let Yanukovich ever lose an election?
 
2014-04-10 02:39:01 PM  

stpickrell: Would Putin have ever let Yanukovich ever lose an election?


Yes, in order to justify military action to accomplish his true objectives.
 
2014-04-10 02:51:52 PM  
As cooler heads can agree

Only hot-heads disagree with author
 
2014-04-10 04:34:36 PM  
"Restoring a functioning country will demand insistent negotiations across the range of issues: the balance between presidential and parliamentary powers, language rights, reigning in extremists, delaying presidential elections (now scheduled for next month) to allow Ukraine's south and east to have a fair voice, and the relative strength between the "center" and the regions in a decentralized or even federalized order that restores local confidence."

Look, it's one thing to be a miserable fat Belgian bastard, but "reigning in" must not stand.

/ it's "reining in", you illiterate troglodyte

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrvXoin9NcA
 
2014-04-10 05:19:02 PM  
 
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