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(Bloomberg View)   "The most segregated cities in the U.S. are above the Mason-Dixon line." Suck it, Damyankees   (bloombergview.com) divider line 180
    More: Ironic, U.S., regional variations, Economic egalitarianism, racial equality, Palo Alto, black person  
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5130 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2014 at 2:29 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-10 04:25:11 PM  

Geoff Peterson: If you're curious, the disparity has nothing to do with color and everything to do with education. Uneducated people do not make as much as educated people. Uneducated people median out regardless of color. One dropout makes the same as any other.

You can figure out the rest, cantcha?


This is probably accurate.  From the farking article:

According to 2005-2009 data based on the U.S. Census American Community Survey, which was provided to me by John Logan, a demographer at Brown University, the San Francisco-San Mateo-Redwood City metropolitan area has an astonishing $56,000 white-black gap in household median income.

Another term for the "San Francisco-San Mateo-Redwood City metropolitan area" is Silicon Valley.  Computer engineering is known to have a very small number of African Americans and Latinos working in it (but a large number of whites, Indians (dot not feather), and Asians).
 
2014-04-10 04:25:22 PM  

Superjew: Defensive Much, Southern US?



Actually, most of this thread sounds like defensive Northerners.
 
2014-04-10 04:26:16 PM  

Infernalist: learn2fly: Anyone ever been to Tulsa?

Lived there for a few years.  Horrible horrible place to live.  All the negatives of living in the south combined with horrible Northern winters.

Oh and tornadoes all the goddamned time.  Worst place I've 'ever' lived, bar none.


Good friend of mine and his wife are from there. He always says Oklahoma in general is a great place to be *from*.
 
2014-04-10 04:31:39 PM  

Geoff Peterson: mike_d85: Are you under the impression that Harvard Square is IN Harvard?

no, I'm saying strangers do not speak to each other in that manner, and your entire first paragraph is completely made up.

Does that clear the air a bit?


for some reason... I often find myself in random conversations with random strangers of all stripes in all types of locations for various reasons. and the notion that random black guy struck up that random conversation with a random white guy in harvard square comes as absolutly no shock to me, and quite frankly, the conversation probably would've gone along a quite simular route.

And I'm from Richmond Virginia.. and look like a cross between a hillbilly and a viking

I guess, to have such life experiences, you gotta presnt yourself as someone that is approachable, jovial, maybe a little wierd in a fun way, but not anxious, paranoid or judgemental to the world around you.
 
2014-04-10 04:33:00 PM  

give me doughnuts: Superjew: Defensive Much, Southern US?


Actually, most of this thread sounds like defensive Northerners.


A counter part for my point about Silicon Valley above is that, in much of the south, both the whites and the blacks are, on average, pretty poor and uneducated, so the difference between the two is less.
 
2014-04-10 04:33:08 PM  

Infernalist: Smeggy Smurf: JerseyTim: But but but no institutionalized racism.

Other than affirmative action and hiring quotas that assume that just because you're not white you're unable to compete.  Nothing like institutionalized racism under the guise of "helping".  Nothing like knowing that because you're white you're just so damned good that somebody needs to hold you back so "those people" can get out from under your boot.

You're adorable.

Get back to me when you get stopped for Driving While White.


What does that have to do with affirmative action? You don't fight racism with more racism, all that does is escalate things.

Affirmative action is exactly that, institutionalized racial discrimination.

Want to help solve the blacks being suspicious thing? Work on "black culture". It's got nothing to do with race, it's the ghetto thug culture rife with crime, which sadly is disproportionately though certainly not exclusively black.
 
2014-04-10 04:33:15 PM  
Not news. New England is fairly liberal and uber-white.
 
2014-04-10 04:36:16 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Geoff Peterson: mike_d85: I've been saying this for years.  In the deep south (where everyone is assumes we arrange firewood in cross shapes just in case), you can have a black family in a white neighborhood and no one bats an eye.  You get a stray black person in a northern city and the whole neighborhood is at least talking about it.  And I've heard tale of violence, but that's heresay.

Great exchange between myself (white) and a random black man in Harvard Square:
He: No offense, but this is the most white people I've ever seen in my life.
*pause*
Me: Me too.
He: Where are you from.
Me: South Carolina.
He: Oh, so you're practically black.

That is complete bullshiat, but whatever.

If you're curious, the disparity has nothing to do with color and everything to do with education. Uneducated people do not make as much as educated people. Uneducated people median out regardless of color. One dropout makes the same as any other.

You can figure out the rest, cantcha?

Ah, but for a counterpoint, most of your "low-income" people are primarily black or latino. Are you saying black and latino people are uneducated?

/it's truth, go by the nearest trailer park.


Well, highschool dropout rates are far higher amongst blacks and Latinos, so statistically, yeah. It's not their race though, they aren't genetically predisposed to fail and drop out of school. It's the culture and environment so many are brought up in.
 
2014-04-10 04:38:29 PM  

GQueue: chitownmike: Cops see a white guy driving through a minority neighborhood, they ask why

Yeah, if a white guy or someone in a really nice car is rolling around in Austin or West Garfield Park well off the expressway and a cop sees it, it wouldn't be unusual to get pulled over or be followed. They assume you're there buying drugs.


With a few exceptions, anywhere on the south or west sides
 
2014-04-10 04:41:14 PM  

durbnpoisn: FTFA:
Please upgrade your Browser
Your browser is out-of-date. Please download one of these up-to-date and excellent browsers:
http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/">Firefox, http://www.google.com/chrome?hl=en">Chrome, https://itunes.apple.com//app/os-x-mavericks/id675248567?mt=12&uo=4">S afari, or http://www.opera.com/browser/">Opera


Really?!  Fark you.  Some of us work in places where IE8 is the only option.  Maybe you should not simply exclude people because you're too lazy to make a site that's friendly for everyone.


Do we have to make our sites work with Netscape 2 also? What about Lynx?
 
2014-04-10 04:42:53 PM  

Dafatone: If you put effort into exposing who the  real racists are, it's you.


So the National Urban League's State of Black America report is racist?
 
2014-04-10 04:45:38 PM  
FTFA:

"Educated liberals are tolerant people who are willing to live in racially integrated areas even if the minority neighbors are poor. Such liberals are more willing to vote for redistributionist policies and this may attract poor people to collect such transfers."



If those "redistribution policies" really worked would there not be less income inequality?
 
2014-04-10 04:45:39 PM  

Pangea: durbnpoisn: FTFA:
Please upgrade your Browser
Your browser is out-of-date. Please download one of these up-to-date and excellent browsers:
http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/">Firefox, http://www.google.com/chrome?hl=en">Chrome, https://itunes.apple.com//app/os-x-mavericks/id675248567?mt=12&uo=4">S afari, or http://www.opera.com/browser/">Opera


Really?!  Fark you.  Some of us work in places where IE8 is the only option.  Maybe you should not simply exclude people because you're too lazy to make a site that's friendly for everyone.

You're going to see an increase in browser disparity now that XP is not getting any more security updates.

farking Microsoft is gentrifying the OS community without caring about the security impact on companies unwilling to invest in new capital.

Microsoft hates poor people!

* or stingy boards of directors.


Those companies could install Firefox and be done with it. My netbook is running the latest version of Firefox on XP. The only thing I've used IE for in the past decade has been downloading another browser.
 
2014-04-10 04:50:59 PM  

vpb: Because a lot of them moved from the South to get away from racism and also because cities in the North have more low income housing?


I guess when reality gives you lemons...
 
2014-04-10 04:51:55 PM  

Dr Dreidel: This just in - cities have high income inequality.

More on this breaking story at 11.


Are you assuming black people are poor?  Racist.
 
2014-04-10 04:53:04 PM  
DRTFA, but I noticed this quite a bit when I took a roadtrip down south last summer. Even small cities like Dyersburg, TN are far more integrated than most Chicago suburbs.

It's strange that the derpiest politicians, who want to turn the clock at least back to Jim Crow, are in the states where the cities are most integrated.
 
2014-04-10 05:24:17 PM  
After living in the South for 15 years and New England for 3, I've come to the following conclusions:

-- Southerners are more vocal about their racism (They'll yell "damn n****** in a public location), but not as physically hostile.
-- New Englands are more physically hostile, but quietly mutter racist statements under their breath when in public.

/Have had weapons pointed at me just for being white in the wrong neighborhood. It was in New England, NOT the South.
 
2014-04-10 05:36:41 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: ArcadianRefugee

Chicago (lat: 44.8819) is still north of ('above') the Mason-Dixon line (39.7167), as is Minneapolis (44.983). San Fran, not so much (37.783).

(So is Canada.)


*facepalm*

The point - which you well and truly missed - was that the Mason-Dixon line stops at the western end of Pennsylvania. It is not a line of latitude unto itself, going across the entire country. The cities I mentioned are not geographically related to the line in any way, except that they are west of it as they are west of Baltimore or NYC or the Atlantic Ocean.


People long ago stopped thinking of the Mason-Dixon line as "the line two surveyors marked to show the border between Pennsylvania and Maryland."  Instead, it means the line between North and South (and Maryland is generally thought of as on the north side of it, funnily enough).

Are you this hopelessly literal about everything?  When a news report says "Today, the White House declared X" do you immediately point out to your companions that the White House is a building, incapable of speech?
 
2014-04-10 05:43:10 PM  
There us nowhere in the city if Milwaukee that I would want to live, but I did grow up in Whitefolks Bay so it may cloud my assessment. /Currently live in Stallis, really do not want my daughter to grow up here either, but it is better than Milwaukee and not nearly as full of shiat as WFB.
 
2014-04-10 05:58:11 PM  

Komplex: Redlining. The answer is redlining.

If Libertarians and "small-government conservatives" were such farking racist morons, they could put together a nice argument based on the Post-War Government expansion exacerbated the decline of our major cities. The FHA, Housing Projects, Cross-Bronx Expressway, etc... were all government programs that drove segregation, increased income inequality and slaughtered the tax base of our cities.


Did you, by chance, mean the exact opposite of what you wrote?
 
2014-04-10 06:02:12 PM  

mike_d85: Geoff Peterson: mike_d85: I've been saying this for years.  In the deep south (where everyone is assumes we arrange firewood in cross shapes just in case), you can have a black family in a white neighborhood and no one bats an eye.  You get a stray black person in a northern city and the whole neighborhood is at least talking about it.  And I've heard tale of violence, but that's heresay.

Great exchange between myself (white) and a random black man in Harvard Square:
He: No offense, but this is the most white people I've ever seen in my life.
*pause*
Me: Me too.
He: Where are you from.
Me: South Carolina.
He: Oh, so you're practically black.

That is complete bullshiat, but whatever.

If you're curious, the disparity has nothing to do with color and everything to do with education. Uneducated people do not make as much as educated people. Uneducated people median out regardless of color. One dropout makes the same as any other.

You can figure out the rest, cantcha?

Are you under the impression that Harvard Square is IN Harvard?


Oh, THAT's what whathe wrote made absolutely no sense at all. I thought I was sleep deprived.

*checks bags under eyes*

Ope, yeah, I'm sleep deprived, too.
 
2014-04-10 06:10:46 PM  

vpb: Because a lot of them moved from the South to get away from racism and also because cities in the North have more low income housing?


Nice try. A lot of Northerners are moving to the South because that's where the industries are moving.
 
2014-04-10 06:12:42 PM  
This thread reminds me of a quote from Malcolm X:

"The North's liberals have been so long pointing accusing fingers at the South and getting away with it that they have fits when they are exposed as the world's worst hypocrites."

And it was MLK who said that the Cicero neighborhood in CHicago was the most racist place he had been in America.
 
2014-04-10 06:15:26 PM  
Ah, found that Martin Luther King Jr. quote about Chicago:

"I have seen many demonstrations in the South, but I have never seen anything so hostile and so hateful as I've seen here today,"
 
2014-04-10 06:16:40 PM  

CruJones: What do you expect?  In a place like Mississippi where the population is basically half and half, everything is integrated.


That's what I've tried to say for years but liberals are deaf to it. I live in Memphis, TN which is mostly black and I also live within a few hours of the Mississippi Delta region which is majority blacks. Around here, though racism does exist on both sides, we have had centuries of experience living together. By and large, we all get along pretty well. I've also lived in Detroit, and southeast Michigan is 100x as racist as anything I've ever seen down here.
 
2014-04-10 06:23:41 PM  

TerminalEchoes: CruJones: What do you expect?  In a place like Mississippi where the population is basically half and half, everything is integrated.

That's what I've tried to say for years but liberals are deaf to it. I live in Memphis, TN which is mostly black and I also live within a few hours of the Mississippi Delta region which is majority blacks. Around here, though racism does exist on both sides, we have had centuries of experience living together. By and large, we all get along pretty well. I've also lived in Detroit, and southeast Michigan is 100x as racist as anything I've ever seen down here.


I would second that. I grew up in Madison, WI, which is a very liberal city and also very racist and segregated.


I also used to live in Memphis and it was far less segregated than anywhere I lived up north.
 
2014-04-10 06:52:54 PM  
Cops see a white guy driving through a minority neighborhood, they ask why

Hookers and Blow
 
2014-04-10 06:55:01 PM  
 
2014-04-10 08:06:10 PM  

BullBearMS: In 1976 the courts forced Boston schools to integrate. A full 20 years after the Little Rock nine.

Guess what happened.


Racism is everywhere. It doesn't matter if you're in BFE Tennessee, or San Fran, CA.  However, the South gets made fun of because, usually, the "Northern" states aren't the ones bringing legislation to the board trying to enshrine discriminatory and racist policies and laws into the codes of various state and federal laws, and because their political base tends to blame their problems with crime and poverty on imaginary racial boogymen rather than taking an honest look at their problems and history.
 
2014-04-10 08:08:29 PM  

TerminalEchoes: That's what I've tried to say for years but liberals are deaf to it. I live in Memphis, TN which is mostly black and I also live within a few hours of the Mississippi Delta region which is majority blacks. Around here, though racism does exist on both sides, we have had centuries of experience living together. By and large, we all get along pretty well. I've also lived in Detroit, and southeast Michigan is 100x as racist as anything I've ever seen down here.


Drive an hour, either way, outside of Memphis. You'll see a stark difference. Although I have been FTO to a guy who called Mayor Wharton a N*gger to his face in the Starbucks on Union.

One of the PT jobs I work is an hour away in Arkansas. (It's rural, and I love rural work) On my second shift, my EMT-Basic decided to ask me how I felt about the Klan and started cracking racial jokes about N*ggers.
 
2014-04-10 08:25:33 PM  
This may be true, but have you seen their tumblr profile or who they follow on twitter? They're huge fans of diversity and tolerance, just not where it could affect them.
It's just classic NIMBYism, or "I got mine so fark you"

Like this post if you're against Kony
 
2014-04-10 08:28:13 PM  

hardinparamedic: usually, the "Northern" states aren't the ones bringing legislation to the board trying to enshrine discriminatory and racist policies


No. They are the ones having race riots and beating black people with the American flag because the courts forced them to finally integrate their schools a full 20 years after the south did.
 
2014-04-10 08:39:26 PM  

BullBearMS: No. They are the ones having race riots and beating black people with the American flag because the courts forced them to finally integrate their schools a full 20 years after the south did.


Wow. I think I found a textbook example of Cognitive Dissonance.

Beating black people with a flag a full 20 years after the decision to integrate the Little Rock Schools is shameful. Going out "N*gger hunting" and running down an elderly black man because you want to kill one of the darkies in 2012 Jackson Mississippi is pretty horrible too.

But no, you're right. The South doesn't have a problem with racist groups and belief at all. It's just those damned Yankees making fun of us.
 
2014-04-10 08:46:54 PM  

hardinparamedic: BullBearMS: No. They are the ones having race riots and beating black people with the American flag because the courts forced them to finally integrate their schools a full 20 years after the south did.

Wow. I think I found a textbook example of Cognitive Dissonance.

Beating black people with a flag a full 20 years after the decision to integrate the Little Rock Schools is shameful. Going out "N*gger hunting" and running down an elderly black man because you want to kill one of the darkies in 2012 Jackson Mississippi is pretty horrible too.

But no, you're right. The South doesn't have a problem with racist groups and belief at all. It's just those damned Yankees making fun of us.


I'm sorry. Did I say any region of the US was immune from racism?

No?

You're just making your usual nonsensical statements again?

Yup.
 
2014-04-10 08:48:41 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: I currently live in St. Louis and I can say for a fact that it is by far the most segregated town I've ever lived in.


African-Americans living in a fairly liberal city while white people live out in the very conservative suburbs.

But it's liberals who are the real racists.

/Delmar is quite the phenomenon
 
2014-04-10 09:36:06 PM  

BullBearMS: You're just making your usual nonsensical statements again?

Yup.


No. I'm calling you out over your "BOTH SIDES ARE BAD" crap.

I get that you live in Mississippi. Sorry that people associate you with racism because of that.
 
2014-04-10 09:51:02 PM  
yeah, when you have slaves and masters living together under one plantation - it doesn't get more chummy than that, huh?

Checkmate, libtardos!
 
2014-04-10 10:30:53 PM  

natas6.0: people with similar traits tend to cluster together
story at 11


Came for this.

I could swear that I've read stories before about how most of segregation is self segregation.
 
2014-04-10 10:40:59 PM  

hardinparamedic: I'm calling you out over your "BOTH SIDES ARE BAD" crap.


Yea. Racism isn't suddenly OK because it happens in Boston, asshole.
 
2014-04-10 10:41:12 PM  

James10952001: Well, highschool dropout rates are far higher amongst blacks and Latinos, so statistically, yeah. It's not their race though, they aren't genetically predisposed to fail and drop out of school. It's the culture and environment so many are brought up in.


Oh I agree, just like that Offspring song from Crazy Taxi, Way down the line. Look it up. :)
 
2014-04-10 10:51:08 PM  
In the north there is a more recent history of keeping low income black people in their own neighborhoods.

However in the south going back to Jefferson and still continuing with Strom Thurmond, where black men could be lynched for forgetting their place up until the mid 60's while banging their light skinned help.

For the of the physical segregation the north practiced, the south had a well-established system of social segregation going back at least two hundred years.

Physical lines are not everything.  Both sides can be bad too.
 
2014-04-10 10:52:07 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: In the example of Portland revitalization, I was correct in my assessment that it was through a city commission, and not through the private sector.


Except that it was an incorrect answer.  The PDC plays a part in development around Portland, but the city's zoning rules also include incentives to build low income and market rate housing through various things like FAR (floor area ratio) and height limit bonus as well as reducing parking requirements if developers meet certain social and environmentally minded goals.

The city encourages building mixed income neighborhoods with carrots.  Most of the time they basically allow for more units meaning more money for the developer, or they get parking requirements reduced/waived which saves the developer starting at about $40,000 per parking spot in extra costs, or in some cases waive system development fees if the building will either bring people of mixed incomes spread throughout neighborhoods and/or includes environmentally friendly features.  Low/market rate housing, LEED certification, bike parking, recycling grey water, putting in bioswales or other things that reduce demand on the city's water system, building near high frequency transit and more can help a developer make more money with the thinking that it helps make for a better city.

The Pearl District here is a great example of how all of those incentives (along with city-sponsored infrastructure) can create a vibrant healthy neighborhood that has a large number of lower-income residents.  The average income is $32,000 while the city has an average of $50,000, yet it has the reputation of being a posh playground for the well to do.  About 1/4 of the housing qualifies for low income subsidies, yet it's also one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the state if you want to buy a condo there.

There are numerous other neighborhoods around Portland experiencing the same dynamic of mixing lower income people with higher income people, as well as attracting the elderly, families and young singles to the same neighborhoods as well.

The biggest problem with this solution is the farther out neighborhoods in East Portland aren't as desirable, so it's really tough to encourage developers to build in lots of those areas.  It's not to say the solutions here are perfect, but private developers definitely play a part simply by the city demanding it in exchange for benefits you're not required to accept.
 
2014-04-10 11:03:44 PM  

BullBearMS: hardinparamedic: I'm calling you out over your "BOTH SIDES ARE BAD" crap.

Yea. Racism isn't suddenly OK because it happens in Boston, asshole.


Then why the deflection there, my fine libertarian friend?

Why bring up something 36 years ago, and then get pissy when an event that happened in your own state two years ago is brought up?

You're right. Racism isn't okay. I never said it was. What you replied to was a statement that the south currently leads the way in institutionalizing racism through codifying it in such things as voter ID laws and "drug testing" laws for benefits.

Race riots in Boston 36 years ago have nothing to do with that. At best, it's a non-sequitur.
 
2014-04-10 11:19:44 PM  

hardinparamedic: Race riots in Boston 36 years ago have nothing to do with that. At best, it's a non-sequitur.


You just can't stop defending this can you?

Enemabag Jones: Physical lines are not everything. Both sides can be bad too.


Some assholes just have to go on and on about how it only counts sometimes.
 
2014-04-10 11:47:54 PM  
BullBearMS
Some assholes just have to go on and on about how it only counts sometimes.

I am missing your point here. Why am I an asshole? Because I said sometimes. Because I am not anti-north enough? Because I am not supporting the south enough?

What kind of asshole am I?
 
2014-04-11 12:03:51 AM  

Enemabag Jones: BullBearMS
Some assholes just have to go on and on about how it only counts sometimes.

I am missing your point here. Why am I an asshole? Because I said sometimes. Because I am not anti-north enough? Because I am not supporting the south enough?

What kind of asshole am I?


I was agreeing with your point that it's bad no matter where it happens.

The asshole is the guy whining about pointing this out.

hardinparamedic: I'm calling you out over your "BOTH SIDES ARE BAD" crap.


That guy.
 
2014-04-11 12:07:34 AM  
BullBearMS,
I was agreeing with your point that it's bad no matter where it happens.
The asshole is the guy whining about pointing this out.


I confuse easy, my apologies.

I am still an asshole anyway.
 
2014-04-11 12:15:05 AM  

BullBearMS: You just can't stop defending this can you?


Oh, this is grand. What am I defending,  BullBearMS?

Are you honestly going to say I'm defending racism against blacks in the North? Or how I "said it only counts some of the time"?

Please quote where I have said either. Because unless you're putting words in my mouth (which is pretty par for the course with you), I didn't.

img3.wikia.nocookie.net

YOU CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT THE NORTH DID 36 YEARS AGO ALL YOU WANT. THAT DOES NOT DETRACT FROM THE FACT THAT THE SOUTHERN STATES ARE THE ONES TARGETED BY NEOCONSERVATIVE PACs AND THINK TANKS IN THE CURRENT DAY TO ATTEMPT TO CODIFY RACIST AND DISCRIMINATORY POLICIES INTO LAW.
 
2014-04-11 12:17:05 AM  

Enemabag Jones: I confuse easy, my apologies.

I am still an asshole anyway.


He's pissy that I called him out over the same BS he does every time the South comes up in conversation. Despite the fact he lives less than a hundred miles south of me. And in one of the most poor and racially disparate areas of the United States - the Mississippi Delta.
 
2014-04-11 12:23:39 AM  
Internet pissing contest aside: WHAT THE HELL? Everyone on the site is a TFer.
 
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