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(ESPN)   Why do baseball coaches say not to slide into first base? Ask Josh Hamilton, who just derailed the best start in his career by tearing a ligament in his thumb while doing so   (espn.go.com) divider line 37
    More: Fail, Josh Hamilton, first base, ligaments, Howie Kendrick, calf muscles, Mike Scioscia, thumbs, disabled list  
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584 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Apr 2014 at 8:59 AM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



37 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-10 08:39:28 AM
Those apples are delicious!
 
2014-04-10 08:59:15 AM
This is why the Tigers have always practiced head-first slides with their hands behind their backs.
 
2014-04-10 09:08:32 AM
Ever see an Olympic sprinter slide across the finish line?
 
2014-04-10 09:12:52 AM
The only valid reason I know of for anyone to slide head first into first base is to avoid being tagged out by first baseman when he's been pulled off the bag.
 
2014-04-10 09:21:14 AM

browneye: The only valid reason I know of for anyone to slide head first into first base is to avoid being tagged out by first baseman when he's been pulled off the bag.


i would've said the only reason to do it is to avoid the pitcher picking you off
 
2014-04-10 09:22:51 AM
yeah and he did it only days after puig was stupid enough to do it across town and injure his thumb
 
2014-04-10 09:31:37 AM

Dead for Tax Reasons: browneye: The only valid reason I know of for anyone to slide head first into first base is to avoid being tagged out by first baseman when he's been pulled off the bag.

i would've said the only reason to do it is to avoid the pitcher picking you off


You are correct.  You can slide  back to first, but you NEVER, EVER, slide  into first.

There's no reason to slide into first coming from the batter's box.

The rule is you can run through first base, a fielder only needs to tag the base to force the out, and sliding kills your momentum.
 
2014-04-10 09:40:39 AM
sometimes players do it to avoid a collision with the first baseman who may be blocking the base.

or sometimes the strides of the runner may cause the runner to miss touching the bag or have to take a half-step to touch the bag, slowing the runner down anyways.  These guys take huge strides and occasionally, based on the spacing, the guy is paced in such a way he would stride over the bag without touching it.
 
2014-04-10 09:48:56 AM
This just in: athletes aren't always the sharpest pencil in the box.
 
2014-04-10 09:50:39 AM

UNC_Samurai: You are correct.  You can slide  back to first, but you NEVER, EVER, slide  into first.

There's no reason to slide into first coming from the batter's box.

The rule is you can run through first base, a fielder only needs to tag the base to force the out, and sliding kills your momentum.


As somebody said above you, sometimes the first baseman or pitcher is fielding the ball and is trying to tag you instead of go for the force.  So it may be ideal to slide to avoid the tag.
 
2014-04-10 09:56:41 AM

MugzyBrown: UNC_Samurai: You are correct.  You can slide  back to first, but you NEVER, EVER, slide  into first.

There's no reason to slide into first coming from the batter's box.

The rule is you can run through first base, a fielder only needs to tag the base to force the out, and sliding kills your momentum.

As somebody said above you, sometimes the first baseman or pitcher is fielding the ball and is trying to tag you instead of go for the force.  So it may be ideal to slide to avoid the tag.


Except that's not what happened. Hamilton is a headcase, a drunk, and a moron. People up here were all fired up to get him, but that guy is way more trouble than he's worth, and I'm glad the Angels are saddled with him.
 
2014-04-10 09:56:43 AM

SlothB77: sometimes players do it to avoid a collision with the first baseman who may be blocking the base.

or sometimes the strides of the runner may cause the runner to miss touching the bag or have to take a half-step to touch the bag, slowing the runner down anyways.  These guys take huge strides and occasionally, based on the spacing, the guy is paced in such a way he would stride over the bag without touching it.


If the 1B is blocking the base in such a way that you can run through it and touch it, plow into him and get the base on interference.

If your stride is off, a short stride is still significantly faster than any slide.
 
2014-04-10 09:59:39 AM
 
2014-04-10 10:00:09 AM

MugzyBrown: UNC_Samurai: You are correct.  You can slide  back to first, but you NEVER, EVER, slide  into first.

There's no reason to slide into first coming from the batter's box.

The rule is you can run through first base, a fielder only needs to tag the base to force the out, and sliding kills your momentum.

As somebody said above you, sometimes the first baseman or pitcher is fielding the ball and is trying to tag you instead of go for the force.  So it may be ideal to slide to avoid the tag.


Okay, the runner is allowed to make a really big mistake when the fielder makes a really dumb mistake himself.
 
2014-04-10 10:04:12 AM

UNC_Samurai: Okay, the runner is allowed to make a really big mistake when the fielder makes a really dumb mistake himself.


It's not really a dumb mistake on either party in some situations.

Fast runner, bunt/slow roller down the line.  Sometimes the only play is for the 1B to field and go for the tag as the runner will beat the pitcher to the base.. or sometimes the 1B is playing back and won't get to the base in time for the pitcher to make the toss.
 
2014-04-10 10:11:56 AM
I'm not 100% convinced that running through is always fast than diving for a base.

As an example on 'sports science' they did an experiment that showed that this one guy was 10ms faster running through than diving.

But then they show the two imaged overlapped.. lame capture:

img.fark.net

And you see the dive was closer to the bag than his foot at one point.  So the answer may be if you dove in a more specific way you could get there slightly faster.

The sprinter comparison is stupid because a sprinter needs to get their chest across a horizontal plane, not touch a specific piece of the ground.
 
2014-04-10 10:35:23 AM
That's a shame.
 
2014-04-10 10:35:40 AM

MugzyBrown: I'm not 100% convinced that running through is always fast than diving for a base.

As an example on 'sports science' they did an experiment that showed that this one guy was 10ms faster running through than diving.


Hmm, risk serious injury by diving into first base to save 10ms?

No thanks.
 
2014-04-10 10:37:15 AM

beerrun: MugzyBrown: I'm not 100% convinced that running through is always fast than diving for a base.

As an example on 'sports science' they did an experiment that showed that this one guy was 10ms faster running through than diving.

Hmm, risk serious injury by diving into first base to save 10ms?

No thanks.


Now that I reread that, it's the other way around, so I'm definitely not diving.
 
2014-04-10 10:58:00 AM

beerrun: MugzyBrown: I'm not 100% convinced that running through is always fast than diving for a base.

As an example on 'sports science' they did an experiment that showed that this one guy was 10ms faster running through than diving.

Hmm, risk serious injury by diving into first base to save 10ms?

No thanks.


I've seen people risk more to optimize software to save less time. You'd be surprised what smart people will try if given carte blanche.
 
2014-04-10 10:58:15 AM
Mind if I point at Hambone and laugh? Ha ha!

//Dumbass.
 
2014-04-10 11:16:05 AM
Classic Josh
 
2014-04-10 11:37:03 AM

Tr0mBoNe: beerrun: MugzyBrown: I'm not 100% convinced that running through is always fast than diving for a base.

As an example on 'sports science' they did an experiment that showed that this one guy was 10ms faster running through than diving.

Hmm, risk serious injury by diving into first base to save 10ms?

No thanks.

I've seen people risk more to optimize software to save less time. You'd be surprised what smart people will try if given carte blanche.


Spoken like a true Bleeding Heart...
 
2014-04-10 12:31:06 PM

SmackLT: This is why the Tigers have always practiced head-first slides with their hands behind their backs.

 
2014-04-10 12:34:22 PM

The Googles Do Nothing: SmackLT: This is why the Tigers have always practiced head-first slides with their hands behind their backs.


Oh for Fark's sake: http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/816342989-1.gif?w=500&h=28 1
 
2014-04-10 12:40:05 PM
Hamilton was one of 3 players to dive into first base in that game and players from both teams did it - Michael Saunders running out a bunt basehit attempt managed to slam his upper body into the bag very awkardly but get up just fine. Diving into the bag helped none of them. The outcome of the plays was not changed one bit by the dives, except for Hamilton's injury.

The really stupid thing is that Scioscia said he has no problem with his players diving into first because it's "their instinct as a runner" or some stupid bullsh*t. Well...it just cost you your $125 million #5 hitter and LF, so you better learn to have a problem with it.
 
2014-04-10 01:14:51 PM

browneye: The only valid reason I know of for anyone to slide head first into first base is to avoid being tagged out by first baseman when he's been pulled off the bag.


It's rare, but sometimes the first baseman fields the ball, pitcher doesn't cover, and 1B is racing the batter to the bag for the force, on basically 90 degree vectors.  If they both stay upright  and keep running, there's gonna be a big badaboom at the bag, and somebody gets hurt.  So they both slide.
 
2014-04-10 01:16:32 PM

Sliding Carp: browneye: The only valid reason I know of for anyone to slide head first into first base is to avoid being tagged out by first baseman when he's been pulled off the bag.

It's rare, but sometimes the first baseman fields the ball, pitcher doesn't cover, and 1B is racing the batter to the bag for the force, on basically 90 degree vectors.  If they both stay upright  and keep running, there's gonna be a big badaboom at the bag, and somebody gets hurt.  So they both slide.


I don't think head-first is a good option in that scenario, though.
 
2014-04-10 01:33:33 PM

beerrun: MugzyBrown: I'm not 100% convinced that running through is always fast than diving for a base.

As an example on 'sports science' they did an experiment that showed that this one guy was 10ms faster running through than diving.

Hmm, risk serious injury by diving into first base to save 10ms?

No thanks.


Not saving 10ms. Taking 10ms longer to dive.
 
2014-04-10 01:44:32 PM

MugzyBrown: I'm not 100% convinced that running through is always fast than diving for a base.

As an example on 'sports science' they did an experiment that showed that this one guy was 10ms faster running through than diving.

But then they show the two imaged overlapped.. lame capture:

[img.fark.net image 445x349]

And you see the dive was closer to the bag than his foot at one point.  So the answer may be if you dove in a more specific way you could get there slightly faster.

The sprinter comparison is stupid because a sprinter needs to get their chest across a horizontal plane, not touch a specific piece of the ground.


Not to mention that diving/sliding on a track is likely to remove a lot of skin.  I think if sprinters were landing on grass on the other side of the finish line, we might see some diving.
 
2014-04-10 01:59:40 PM

ChrisDe: Not saving 10ms. Taking 10ms longer to dive.


Based on the experiment run, but I think diving would be faster if done correctly.
 
2014-04-10 03:30:00 PM
Jason Kendall is not impressed
 
2014-04-10 04:01:16 PM

ElwoodCuse: Jason Kendall is not impressed


The problems are that a) you increase the distance that you need to travel by adding the vertical portion and b) diving costs you your momentum.

One reason it is faster in other situations is that it kills your momentum more quickly when you can't over-run the bag (as well as allowing you to overshoot by a few extra feet) meaning you don't have to slow down as soon.

Maybe there is some weird circumstancethat happens once in a lifetime, but that is it.

Also, when sliding just to avoid a tag or collision, you should generally go feet first rather than head first.
 
2014-04-10 04:06:46 PM

dywed88: ElwoodCuse: Jason Kendall is not impressed

The problems are that a) you increase the distance that you need to travel by adding the vertical portion and b) diving costs you your momentum.

One reason it is faster in other situations is that it kills your momentum more quickly when you can't over-run the bag (as well as allowing you to overshoot by a few extra feet) meaning you don't have to slow down as soon.

Maybe there is some weird circumstancethat happens once in a lifetime, but that is it.

Also, when sliding just to avoid a tag or collision, you should generally go feet first rather than head first.


I think he was referring to when Jason Kendall's ankle disintigrated while he was running to 1st.
 
2014-04-10 07:20:00 PM

MugzyBrown: UNC_Samurai: You are correct.  You can slide  back to first, but you NEVER, EVER, slide  into first.

There's no reason to slide into first coming from the batter's box.

The rule is you can run through first base, a fielder only needs to tag the base to force the out, and sliding kills your momentum.

As somebody said above you, sometimes the first baseman or pitcher is fielding the ball and is trying to tag you instead of go for the force.  So it may be ideal to slide to avoid the tag.


Except, of course, that by the time you realize that the 1B will be pulled off the bag, it's too late to slide anyway.
 
2014-04-10 11:33:34 PM

MugzyBrown: I'm not 100% convinced that running through is always fast than diving for a base.

As an example on 'sports science' they did an experiment that showed that this one guy was 10ms faster running through than diving.

But then they show the two imaged overlapped.. lame capture:

[img.fark.net image 445x349]

And you see the dive was closer to the bag than his foot at one point.  So the answer may be if you dove in a more specific way you could get there slightly faster.

The sprinter comparison is stupid because a sprinter needs to get their chest across a horizontal plane, not touch a specific piece of the ground.


Why wouldn't they just use the bag as the stopping point?  That's where it is decided on the playing field of baseball, and not how touchdowns are scored.
 
2014-04-11 08:44:53 AM
It's Josh Hamilton; an injury was inevitable. I'm sure he has the most injuries of any current player. I'm pretty sure all those drugs deteriorated his body beyond repair.
 
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