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(SeattlePI)   More Pings raise hope that flight MH370 will be found. The Pings are cruel, cruel men   (seattlepi.com) divider line 61
    More: Followup, flights  
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1173 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2014 at 9:48 AM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-10 09:28:31 AM
I think it's pretty clear that they've located the general area now.  Going to be a hell of an undertaking to get to it though, sort of wish I were part of that operation, would be interesting to see how they go about it.
 
2014-04-10 09:38:19 AM
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-10 09:50:26 AM
If only there was a better technology than a "Ping". Something like a GPS system that's found in every cell phone. Too high tech for them I guess.
 
2014-04-10 09:51:06 AM
cmd /k ping MMH370

Ping request could not find host MH370. Please check the name and try again.
 
2014-04-10 09:52:31 AM
When I first read about the chances, it seemed quite impossible to find anything within the next 2 years.

Now it seems like only matter of days to me.

Either they really downplayed their chances or did a really good job (or just got lucky).
 
2014-04-10 09:52:49 AM

Walker: If only there was a better technology than a "Ping". Something like a GPS system that's found in every cell phone. Too high tech for them I guess.


Those satellites would totes find that box under three miles of ocean water.
 
2014-04-10 09:53:24 AM

error 303: cmd /k ping MMH370

Ping request could not find host MH370. Please check the name and try again.


There is your problem right  there, you should have used a /t as well.
 
2014-04-10 09:54:12 AM
Just because he's tough as a martial arts instructor doesn't mean he's cruel....
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-10 09:56:34 AM
Corpses still belted into seats.
 
2014-04-10 09:56:54 AM

error 303: cmd /k ping MMH370

Ping request could not find host MH370. Please check the name and try again.


I think this is better

tracert MMH370 -A (for IPvAirplane)
 
2014-04-10 09:57:09 AM
After all this time no one has thought to do a tracert?
 
2014-04-10 09:57:28 AM
Retired engineer I know who used to design components for old-style "black" boxes says the new ones are better in some respects...but worse in others.  Something about frequency drift in the emitted pings due to temperature change.

Regardless of the quality of the components, it's a serious engineering challenge; you've got to build stuff that works in temps that range from 130 degrees sitting on the tarmac in Saudi Arabia, to minus 30 sitting on the tarmac in Greenland, over a useful lifespan of years.

And that's assuming proper maintenance procedures are followed.

/couldn't follow all of it
//English major
 
2014-04-10 10:00:59 AM
telnet MMH370

Connection established

Hello? Anyone down there? Wakey wakey!
 
2014-04-10 10:02:45 AM

mayIFark: When I first read about the chances, it seemed quite impossible to find anything within the next 2 years.

Now it seems like only matter of days to me.

Either they really downplayed their chances or did a really good job (or just got lucky).


I think the key is that some very smart engineers figured out a way to use very brief signals from the aircraft to track its location and heading over time. They used those signals in a way that no one thought of before. Human ingenuity for the win.
 
2014-04-10 10:03:01 AM
this is why you send "one ping only"
 
2014-04-10 10:08:10 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Corpses still belted into seats.


Morbid much?
 
2014-04-10 10:14:35 AM
Aren't the pings of a very specific frequency, rate?  How do they 'think' they heard it?  Wouldn't they know?

More than the plane story itself, the technical details of this black box search is quite fascinating to me.
 
2014-04-10 10:16:22 AM
Why they use golf clubs?
 
2014-04-10 10:19:12 AM

adder1: Just because he's tough as a martial arts instructor doesn't mean he's cruel....
[upload.wikimedia.org image 500x350]


bigbaddie.com
A reference that is sheer elegance in its simplicity.
 
2014-04-10 10:20:19 AM

BafflerMeal: Aren't the pings of a very specific frequency, rate?  How do they 'think' they heard it?  Wouldn't they know?

More than the plane story itself, the technical details of this black box search is quite fascinating to me.


Yes.  They know.  It's the black box pinger, no question about it.  It's not at an audible frequency, nothing in nature makes it and it's reserved by international treaty.  Barring something insane like best Korea trolling with a fake pinger they've found the general vicinity of the wreckage.
 
2014-04-10 10:22:42 AM

Walker: If only there was a better technology than a "Ping". Something like a GPS system that's found in every cell phone. Too high tech for them I guess.


I can't even imagine what it'd be like to walk around having thoughts like this and patting myself on the back for my genius.  How is it?
 
2014-04-10 10:26:50 AM

Tourney3p0: Walker: If only there was a better technology than a "Ping". Something like a GPS system that's found in every cell phone. Too high tech for them I guess.

I can't even imagine what it'd be like to walk around having thoughts like this and patting myself on the back for my genius.  How is it?


GPS satellites can't keep a signal in a building, or near a tall building.  But yeah, i'm sure they'd work wonders under 20,000 feet of water.  Not to mention how much battery that would use.
 
2014-04-10 10:35:04 AM

PunGent: Retired engineer I know who used to design components for old-style "black" boxes says the new ones are better in some respects...but worse in others.  Something about frequency drift in the emitted pings due to temperature change.

Regardless of the quality of the components, it's a serious engineering challenge; you've got to build stuff that works in temps that range from 130 degrees sitting on the tarmac in Saudi Arabia, to minus 30 sitting on the tarmac in Greenland, over a useful lifespan of years.

And that's assuming proper maintenance procedures are followed.

/couldn't follow all of it
//English major


It's also around -30 at cruising altitude, too.
 
2014-04-10 10:47:39 AM

Tourney3p0: Walker: If only there was a better technology than a "Ping". Something like a GPS system that's found in every cell phone. Too high tech for them I guess.

I can't even imagine what it'd be like to walk around having thoughts like this and patting myself on the back for my genius.  How is it?


Maybe he thinks there are cell towers in the middle of the indian ocean?
 
2014-04-10 10:52:31 AM

BafflerMeal: Aren't the pings of a very specific frequency, rate?  How do they 'think' they heard it?  Wouldn't they know?

More than the plane story itself, the technical details of this black box search is quite fascinating to me.


My engineer buddy said they're SUPPOSED to be at a specific frequency, but if you use cheap components to save a few bucks...you may get frequency drift due to differential heating/cooling.  He's been out of that specific field for years, and was careful NOT to say that that's what was going on here; he was just wondering about the situation, given some of the crap he'd had to wade through back in the day.

/not the black boxes, but he's had to waste days explaining to MBA-tards why spending, literally, a nickel more on a $5000 part was a good idea, in order to double the useful lifespan of the product....and get it up to the industry average.
 
2014-04-10 10:55:41 AM

lawyerjerk: this is why you send "one ping only"


AAAH!  You beat me to the punch.  At least I got the chance to add a hotlinked pic.

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-04-10 10:56:58 AM

nekom: Yes. They know. It's the black box pinger, no question about it. It's not at an audible frequency, nothing in nature makes it and it's reserved by international treaty. Barring something insane like best Korea trolling with a fake pinger they've found the general vicinity of the wreckage.


Yes, they've found it, but how the hell did they know exactly where to look?

The Aussies found it as soon as they started looking. They say it was just good luck, but those pings only travel a 3 to 5 miles. The search area was close to a million square miles.

I'm thinking "national technical means" first picked up the pingers.  The Aussies were then quietly told exactly where to look.  Maybe it was a SOSUS line or buoys.  Maybe something newer and a lot more secret.
 
2014-04-10 10:59:54 AM
I wonder if subby handles Colbert's Twitterfeed.
 
2014-04-10 11:00:59 AM
I'd LOVE to see how they get that stuff off the floor of the ocean.
 
2014-04-10 11:02:15 AM

Fark In The Duck: lawyerjerk: this is why you send "one ping only"

AAAH!  You beat me to the punch.  At least I got the chance to add a hotlinked pic.

[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]


dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2014-04-10 11:04:02 AM
Thought the Chinese were good at pinging and ponging.
 
2014-04-10 11:06:03 AM
Ping at sea?
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-10 11:13:38 AM

WTFDYW: I'd LOVE to see how they get that stuff off the floor of the ocean.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447#2011_search_and_r ec overy
 
VTC
2014-04-10 11:13:56 AM
s2.quickmeme.com
 
2014-04-10 11:20:58 AM
I thought they shut it down?

scoopertino.com
 
2014-04-10 11:21:44 AM
RandomRandom:
Yes, they've found it, but how the hell did they know exactly where to look?

The Aussies found it as soon as they started looking. They say it was just good luck, but those pings only travel a 3 to 5 miles. The search area was close to a million square miles.

I'm thinking "national technical means" first picked up the pingers.  The Aussies were then quietly told exactly where to look.  Maybe it was a SOSUS line or buoys.  Maybe something newer and a lot more secret.


Oh I think it's pretty clear some technology that doesn't officially exist was used here.  Perhaps one of our nuclear subs or some Chinese secret stuff or whoever.  Somebody told them "Hey, look exactly here.  Just a hunch.  No follow-up questions, kthxbai"
 
2014-04-10 11:23:17 AM
Perhaps an army of robot girls could help, though...

megatokyo.com
 
2014-04-10 11:24:15 AM
Learned something new in another thread. Apparently the cockpit voice recorder stops working when the fuel runs out. At least in 1990. Talk about excellence in engineering...

At approximately 9:32 pm, engines number four and three flamed out. This situation was reported to the controller, who cleared the flight for another approach. The flight crew frustratingly tried to locate the runway in an attempt to land. The remaining engines quickly also flamed out, causing the cockpit voice recorder to stop working.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52
 
2014-04-10 11:28:00 AM

Walker: If only there was a better technology than a "Ping". Something like a GPS system that's found in every cell phone. Too high tech for them I guess.


So you'd like them to NEVER find a plane more than a few feet under water?  Or in a valley?  GPS is a terrible system for finding a lost plane.
 
2014-04-10 11:31:40 AM

RandomRandom: nekom: Yes. They know. It's the black box pinger, no question about it. It's not at an audible frequency, nothing in nature makes it and it's reserved by international treaty. Barring something insane like best Korea trolling with a fake pinger they've found the general vicinity of the wreckage.

Yes, they've found it, but how the hell did they know exactly where to look?

The Aussies found it as soon as they started looking. They say it was just good luck, but those pings only travel a 3 to 5 miles. The search area was close to a million square miles.

I'm thinking "national technical means" first picked up the pingers.  The Aussies were then quietly told exactly where to look.  Maybe it was a SOSUS line or buoys.  Maybe something newer and a lot more secret.


The Chinese found it first.
 
2014-04-10 11:45:01 AM

Walker: If only there was a better technology than a "Ping". Something like a GPS system that's found in every cell phone. Too high tech for them I guess.


I'd say 2/10 but you're actually getting farking bites.
 
2014-04-10 11:45:45 AM
i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-04-10 11:56:17 AM

hinten: Learned something new in another thread. Apparently the cockpit voice recorder stops working when the fuel runs out. At least in 1990. Talk about excellence in engineering...

At approximately 9:32 pm, engines number four and three flamed out. This situation was reported to the controller, who cleared the flight for another approach. The flight crew frustratingly tried to locate the runway in an attempt to land. The remaining engines quickly also flamed out, causing the cockpit voice recorder to stop working.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52


All of which is pretty irrelevant, since the CVR only runs on a 2-hour loop.  So whatever happened at the time the transponder was turned off would've been overwritten by the time the thing hit the water hours later.
 
2014-04-10 12:01:12 PM

Walker: If only there was a better technology than a "Ping". Something like a GPS system that's found in every cell phone. Too high tech for them I guess.


It's underwater. Very far underwater. The airplane's ACARS and ADS-B ("something like a GPS") systems wouldn't be able to send a signal even if they hadn't been switched off.
 
2014-04-10 12:15:31 PM
In all honesty, can anyone answer why commercial planes do not have GPS tracking at all times, like before crashing or etc? Particularly international flights. My understanding is that GPS works pretty much everywhere, no not at the bottom of the ocean, but strap a $400 GPS phone in the plane and you'll have all of the plane's data you'd ever need. Hell the life rafts apparently have GPS capabilities!
 
2014-04-10 12:21:51 PM
www.violinstudent.com
 
2014-04-10 12:23:02 PM

PchopSandwiches: In all honesty, can anyone answer why commercial planes do not have GPS tracking at all times, like before crashing or etc? Particularly international flights. My understanding is that GPS works pretty much everywhere, no not at the bottom of the ocean, but strap a $400 GPS phone in the plane and you'll have all of the plane's data you'd ever need. Hell the life rafts apparently have GPS capabilities!


GPS is passive.  It tells the plane where it is, it does not tell the GPS system where the plane is.  ADS-B broadcasts (when it's not switched off) but coverage isn't worldwide because nobody put a listening station in the middle of the ocean and they have limited range.  I'm sure they could come up with real time tracking via satellite with worldwide coverage that can't be turned off, but you know that's expensive.
 
2014-04-10 12:24:37 PM
Truck fleets have GPS systems that report their position to the headquarters. Why do Airplanes not have such systems? The GPS is already there. The satellite system is already there. Why not beacon out the position to the satellite once every minute or two?
 
2014-04-10 12:32:35 PM

Leonard Washington: Tourney3p0: Walker: If only there was a better technology than a "Ping". Something like a GPS system that's found in every cell phone. Too high tech for them I guess.

I can't even imagine what it'd be like to walk around having thoughts like this and patting myself on the back for my genius.  How is it?

Maybe he thinks there are cell towers in the middle of the indian ocean?


Cell towers have fark all to do with GPS signals.  Just sayin'.
 
2014-04-10 12:33:00 PM

nekom: PchopSandwiches: In all honesty, can anyone answer why commercial planes do not have GPS tracking at all times, like before crashing or etc? Particularly international flights. My understanding is that GPS works pretty much everywhere, no not at the bottom of the ocean, but strap a $400 GPS phone in the plane and you'll have all of the plane's data you'd ever need. Hell the life rafts apparently have GPS capabilities!

GPS is passive.  It tells the plane where it is, it does not tell the GPS system where the plane is.  ADS-B broadcasts (when it's not switched off) but coverage isn't worldwide because nobody put a listening station in the middle of the ocean and they have limited range.   I'm sure they could come up with real time tracking via satellite with worldwide coverage that can't be turned off, but you know that's expensive.


They already have it if they subscribe to the engine manufacturer's maintenance monitoring system. GPS? Check. Satellite radio transmission? Check. How expensive would it be to combine the 2? Would it not be paid for in savings from being able to better track flight times and schedules?
 
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