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(The Atlantic)   Men should pay more at buffets because they eat more than women   (theatlantic.com) divider line 226
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4472 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Apr 2014 at 7:35 AM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-10 12:46:04 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: Monkeyhouse Zendo

Englebert Slaptyback: You got a man's cut. After consulting (not even arguing) with someone higher on the salon food chain you paid the lower man's cut price.

How exactly is that "sheer adherence to gender"? And how is it grounds never to go back, since you had just set the precedent for appropriate pricing?

Because the Weeners was to charge her for a woman's cut rather than the cut she got? And the fact that she had to argue with the staff about it?


That was the stylist's first plan of action (no filter pwnage) because the customer was a woman and that was how the rules were set up. Does anyone genuinely expect a lot of flexibility from someone at the lowest level of an organization, especially regarding pricing?

The stylist (i.e. the person on the bottom rung) didn't want to approve what she thought was a price change. As soon she took the matter to the manager, it was resolved immediately and with no further discussion - certainly with no argument. Read the story again: the manager agreed immediately to the man's price.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-10 12:51:03 PM

ckccfa: Englebert Slaptyback: Monkeyhouse Zendo

Englebert Slaptyback: You got a man's cut. After consulting (not even arguing) with someone higher on the salon food chain you paid the lower man's cut price.

How exactly is that "sheer adherence to gender"? And how is it grounds never to go back, since you had just set the precedent for appropriate pricing?

Because the Weeners was to charge her for a woman's cut rather than the cut she got? And the fact that she had to argue with the staff about it?


That was the stylist's first plan of action (no filter pwnage) because the customer was a woman and that was how the rules were set up. Does anyone genuinely expect a lot of flexibility from someone at the lowest level of an organization, especially regarding pricing?

The stylist (i.e. the person on the bottom rung) didn't want to approve what she thought was a price change. As soon she took the matter to the manager, it was resolved immediately and with no further discussion - certainly with no argument. Read the story again: the manager agreed immediately to the man's price.

Right, but I didn't want to depend upon that manager being right there every single time I went (or take the chance that a different manager wouldn't drop the price), nor did I want to farking haggle about the price of the work done every time I got a haircut.  Also, the initial woman pissed me off by farking arguing with me and made me expend unnecessary effort to get fair pricing for the work done, so I decided to save myself some aggravation in the future and take my business elsewhere.


www.partow.net
 
2014-04-10 01:25:17 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: How exactly is that "sheer adherence to gender"? And how is it grounds never to go back, since you had just set the precedent for appropriate pricing?


Because you go, sister.
 
2014-04-10 01:29:35 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Are you serious? Is that what you got from me saying I didn't care what he charged as long as he charged everyone the same price for the same service?



yes i'm serious.  how on earth is that not exactly what you said?
the very next thing i said was "I don't think that's unreasonable, but where do you draw that line? "

I pay for parking at my work.  They charge a different rate for people based on how much they make and how long they have been there.
So they are absolutely charging people different prices for the exact same service.
Should that be illegal?
I am assuming you would say no.  Why?  because you are going to have a hard time convincing a judge that the reason they are charging different prices for the exact same service is discriminatory.  (although it absolutely is charging both older and wealthier people more for the same service)

So like i said - to you the reason matters.

I think if you own something you should be free to charge whatever you want for it.  It's yours, that's the point!
I understand that there are compelling arguments to make exceptions to that principle when it comes to protected classes of people.

But i believe we should be extremely conservative about applying those exceptions.  It's not hard to imagine why such an exception needed to be applied to American businesses in 1964 in an effort to desegregate society.  But does that extend to protecting men at an all you can eat buffet from being charged more than women?

There is no logical reason to my argument that these exceptions, if applied at all, are appropriate for one class over another beyond "common sense" and opinion.
Ie - yes it is reasonable to prevent a business from saying 'whites only' but no it's not reasonable to say "no half-off bowling for seniors only"


seems like you just want to bicker - go do that with someone else.
 
2014-04-10 01:36:26 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Poot beer: As long as boob photos can still be posted, "meh, good enough" is, not surprisingly, good enough.

We're not tracking bosons in a particle accelerator here.

It never ceases to amaze me that people not only accept shoddy work but actually defend it.

We're not talking about tracking bosons in a particle accelerator, an afternoon's work could vastly improve Fark's filter which has sucked for close to a decade. Regarding the changes to posting format not being reflected in the preview, that could have been caught by five minutes of QA.


Maybe Fark can't afford the resources because you're a liter?

Complaining about something free is unlikely to win you a lot of support, no matter how justified you feel your criticisms are.
 
2014-04-10 01:38:40 PM

Cold_Sassy: Lokkii: Everytime something like this comes up I flashxback to when I was the boss over an office with eight women and one guy. Generally things went OK but I always  remember the day the guy came into my office and asked,

"Why is it that men and women are equal when it's time to clean the breakroom, but when there's something heavy to lift, I'm the only guy in the office?"

Men are stronger.  Because Biology.


Just for once I'd like to see the 'biology' argument go the other way. Seems we only try to compensate for biology when it's in the woman's interest. It's always "she gets to choose what to do about the pregnancy because it's her body. That's biology," But it's never "he gets to knock you up and leave because that's biology." That's the kind of biology that gets the courts get involved.

/don't support deadbeat dadism, just sayin' some consistency would be nice
 
2014-04-10 01:40:00 PM

FLMountainMan: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Pathman: So?  A business should be able to charge whatever the hell it wants.  If you don't like it, eat somewhere else.

Dinner for white folks: $30
Dinner for colored folks people of color: $200

I trust you can see where your assertion starts to come apart?

He's not suggesting different prices for different people, he's suggesting the same price for everyone.  Do you see where your assertion falls apart?


Good, because you were about to be labeled a tribe-outsider. You have been warned.  Ծ_Ծ
 
2014-04-10 01:40:59 PM

Two16: ckccfa: Englebert Slaptyback: Monkeyhouse Zendo

Englebert Slaptyback: You got a man's cut. After consulting (not even arguing) with someone higher on the salon food chain you paid the lower man's cut price.

How exactly is that "sheer adherence to gender"? And how is it grounds never to go back, since you had just set the precedent for appropriate pricing?

Because the Weeners was to charge her for a woman's cut rather than the cut she got? And the fact that she had to argue with the staff about it?


That was the stylist's first plan of action (no filter pwnage) because the customer was a woman and that was how the rules were set up. Does anyone genuinely expect a lot of flexibility from someone at the lowest level of an organization, especially regarding pricing?

The stylist (i.e. the person on the bottom rung) didn't want to approve what she thought was a price change. As soon she took the matter to the manager, it was resolved immediately and with no further discussion - certainly with no argument. Read the story again: the manager agreed immediately to the man's price.

Right, but I didn't want to depend upon that manager being right there every single time I went (or take the chance that a different manager wouldn't drop the price), nor did I want to farking haggle about the price of the work done every time I got a haircut.  Also, the initial woman pissed me off by farking arguing with me and made me expend unnecessary effort to get fair pricing for the work done, so I decided to save myself some aggravation in the future and take my business elsewhere.

[www.partow.net image 850x735]


When choosing where to spend my money, I most certainly base in on my experiences and the amount of headache I expect based on my previous visit.

Whose feelings would you suggest someone base their choice of a fungible service on?
 
2014-04-10 01:41:39 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: He's referring to the requirement that all 18 year old males have to register with selective service (which is just a euphemism for a draft registry) while 18 year old females do not. There are significant penalties for failing to register which are selectively applied to men.


See what I mean? It's biology.
 
2014-04-10 01:48:04 PM

Pangea: Two16: ckccfa: Englebert Slaptyback: Monkeyhouse Zendo

Englebert Slaptyback: You got a man's cut. After consulting (not even arguing) with someone higher on the salon food chain you paid the lower man's cut price.

How exactly is that "sheer adherence to gender"? And how is it grounds never to go back, since you had just set the precedent for appropriate pricing?

Because the Weeners was to charge her for a woman's cut rather than the cut she got? And the fact that she had to argue with the staff about it?


That was the stylist's first plan of action (no filter pwnage) because the customer was a woman and that was how the rules were set up. Does anyone genuinely expect a lot of flexibility from someone at the lowest level of an organization, especially regarding pricing?

The stylist (i.e. the person on the bottom rung) didn't want to approve what she thought was a price change. As soon she took the matter to the manager, it was resolved immediately and with no further discussion - certainly with no argument. Read the story again: the manager agreed immediately to the man's price.

Right, but I didn't want to depend upon that manager being right there every single time I went (or take the chance that a different manager wouldn't drop the price), nor did I want to farking haggle about the price of the work done every time I got a haircut.  Also, the initial woman pissed me off by farking arguing with me and made me expend unnecessary effort to get fair pricing for the work done, so I decided to save myself some aggravation in the future and take my business elsewhere.

[www.partow.net image 850x735]

When choosing where to spend my money, I most certainly base in on my experiences and the amount of headache I expect based on my previous visit.

Whose feelings would you suggest someone base their choice of a fungible service on?


www.troll.me
 
2014-04-10 01:50:51 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: How is basic biology a fail? Is it that they noticed it? Is it that they're being mean to the poor, downtrodden menfolk?


Then you don't mind the idea of higher health insurance rates for women, I take it. In both cases it's discriminatory because it takes a general trend and applies it to everyone. Some string bean of a man is supposed to pay more than his fat fark mother in law? A woman who cannot conceive is supposed to pay more in health care because some women get pregnant?
 
2014-04-10 01:54:49 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Pangea: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Because the Weeners was to charge her for a woman's cut rather than the cut she got? And the fact that she had to argue with the staff about it?

Your filter is still farking retarded, Drew. Also, your preview no longer displays the post as it appear on the page. You have shiatty programmers and should be embarrassed by the shoddy quality.

[teamshocker.com image 311x180]

The filter logic is sloppy and what one would expect from a Programming 101 student. Fark also implemented a change to the layout which is not reflected in the Preview making the Preview largely useless for anything other than checking whether an image will load. But yeah, I'm the one with the problem for pointing out the flaws, fark me right?

 
2014-04-10 01:56:33 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Pangea: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Because the Weeners was to charge her for a woman's cut rather than the cut she got? And the fact that she had to argue with the staff about it?

Your filter is still farking retarded, Drew. Also, your preview no longer displays the post as it appear on the page. You have shiatty programmers and should be embarrassed by the shoddy quality.

[teamshocker.com image 311x180]

The filter logic is sloppy and what one would expect from a Programming 101 student. Fark also implemented a change to the layout which is not reflected in the Preview making the Preview largely useless for anything other than checking whether an image will load. But yeah, I'm the one with the problem for pointing out the flaws, fark me right?


img.fark.net

omoshiroi koto ni, shashin wo saishou ni checkku shinakatta.
 
2014-04-10 02:37:45 PM

Poot beer: Zeb Hesselgresser: Poot beer: GORDON: But I doubt it is a magical place that doesn't have any transportation, taxation, labor, energy, or storage costs.

Unless you're running a coffee/donut shop, if the revenue generated from the $1 coffee you provide in the lobby has a significant impact on any of those balance sheet items......you're doing it wrong.

Accounting, you're doing it wrong.

(Balance Sheet - Assets & Liabilities)
(Income Statement - Revenue & Expenses)

Pedanticism

/nailed it


i810.photobucket.com

Serious.  Business.
 
2014-04-10 02:45:26 PM

lack of warmth: ckccfa: /csb
When I first moved to my current city, I went for a haircut.  Picked a place that had good reviews on Yelp.  I'm a woman, but I am also a very butch lesbian, so I go for a traditional man's cut--real short on the sides, a little less short on the top, straight line across the back, done.  My hair is stick straight, so easy to use the clippers for everything.
The shop I went to charged $20 for men's cuts, $30 for women's.  As I get there, two other guys are being seated to have their hair cut by the two old-man barbers.  I get picked up by one of the women.  I ask for a "man's cut," and she does my hair with just the clippers (which is totally fine).  My cut is finished before either of the men that were seated before me.  When it comes time to pay, the woman tries to charge me $30 for a women's cut.
Me: But I got a man's cut.
Her: Yes, but you're a woman.
Me: But the actual work you did was what you price as $20, not $30.
Her: But you're a woman.
Me: I'm not paying $10 more just for my ovaries.  I asked for a man's cut, and that's what you did.  According to your pricing board, I owe $20.
Her: Uuuhhh...I can't change the prices.
Me: Then I need to talk to someone who can.
She turns to some other woman, who waves her off and says it's "fine."  I pay my $20 and leave, to never return again.  At the time that I leave, the other two men are still getting their hair cut.

I've had the same haircut for years, and have always been charged the men's price, because that was the amount of work being done.  This place astounded me for it's sheer adherence to gender--I was supposed to pay $10 more for something that took waaaaay less time and effort than the two men on either side of me, just because I was female.  Stupid arbitrary differences are stupid.
/csb

I started getting flat tops when I was a kid and continued into my 20's, they started off the same price as other men cuts, but now they cost more at most barber shops.  It wasn't about the work because flat ...


There's also the fulmination factor. If you give a man a bad cut, he'll give you a dirty look and never come back. But some (not all, but some) women will burn your salon down (figuratively).
 
2014-04-10 02:49:09 PM

Omnis_evil_twin: Satan's Bunny Slippers: vudukungfu: markfara: 1) The ones that charge a single price for "all you can eat" attract people with slobbish eating habits and poor hygiene (and fat children who touch the food with their fingers to help them decide if they want it or not).

I've seen skinny kids do it too.
No discipline in children nowadays.
I know who they get that from.

CSB time:

When my (now in his 30's) stepson was about 8, we were at a buffet.  Imagine my horror when I saw him take the spoon from a pan with a sample of the food on it, lick it, and start to return it to the pan.  I never knew I could put down my plate in a safe place, grab his hand, his plate, the spoon, shove them behind me out of the way then grab the pan out of the buffet slot (yes, it was incredibly hot, but I wasn't thinking of that) so that no one could touch it.  Of course I flagged down the nearest waitstaff I could and explained, and apologized, and they promptly replaced the pan with new food.

One of the many times our children can make up move faster than we ever thought possible.

We had a talk over dinner about how that was just not what you did in a public place.

/CSB

I used to work in a buffet.  I've seen far worse things from grown ass adults.

-Spatula licking.
-Using the dressing ladles for everything in the salad bar.  Chocolate pudding drizzled with Ranch. Creamy Cesar infused jello.
-After complaining that the plates fresh from the washer were damp customers would wipe them across the seat of their pants.
-Scratching their face with spatulas.  Also, picking pimples with cards.
-Using their bare hands to dish out food.  No, not pizza.  Fruit cocktail.  Salad.  Vegetable slices.  Dip.
-Dropping full plates or glasses and just...walking away.
-Touching every single piece of fruit/cake/pizza until finding that magical one they could commit to.

And don't even get me started on the piece of shiat parents that go to kaiten sushi and let their kids sit counter side touching and dripping their noses over each plate.


Spatula face scratching is kind of awesome.
 
2014-04-10 03:34:34 PM

Anayalator: If I pay more and she pays less, it's a wash, because I'm paying for both. You see, I make more money than her for the same job, because when I knock her up, I won't be unproductive for 9-12 months.


You just cleaned up the hole thread. You must have one heck of a spinning wheel.
 
2014-04-10 03:40:04 PM

Fafai: Monkeyhouse Zendo: He's referring to the requirement that all 18 year old males have to register with selective service (which is just a euphemism for a draft registry) while 18 year old females do not. There are significant penalties for failing to register which are selectively applied to men.

See what I mean? It's biology.


Nah, it's the law.
 
2014-04-10 03:43:39 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Pathman: so yes - we "diverge" in that you think the law should be able to force that child to charge a particular price because you believe the reason why the prices differ is important.

Are you serious? Is that what you got from me saying I didn't care what he charged as long as he charged everyone the same price for the same service?

It's clearly time to end this conversation.

Poot beer: Is that just your opinion?

It's my professional opinion informed by twenty years in the software industry. So, yes, it's my opinion.

Filtering against "firsts" twenty pages into a thread is boneheaded design. His process of stripping whitespace from a post and then applying a simple regex to the remaining text block is similarly a Programming 101 approach which generates what I would consider to be an unacceptable level of false positives in any real application. The whole thing reeks of "meh, good enough".


But it's hilarious EVERY TIME!
 
2014-04-10 03:45:17 PM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Poot beer: As long as boob photos can still be posted, "meh, good enough" is, not surprisingly, good enough.

We're not tracking bosons in a particle accelerator here.

It never ceases to amaze me that people not only accept shoddy work but actually defend it.

We're not talking about tracking bosons in a particle accelerator, an afternoon's work could vastly improve Fark's filter which has sucked for close to a decade. Regarding the changes to posting format not being reflected in the preview, that could have been caught by five minutes of QA.


It's part of the culture. It's a plus to many of us.
 
2014-04-10 03:59:26 PM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: jehovahs witness protection:

Hey you!  *waves*


Mornin'
 
2014-04-10 04:21:09 PM

ckccfa: Pathman: as for your hairdresser example, how is the all you can eat principle any different?  Men tend to be able to eat more so they are being charged for what they are "getting done" as well.

Women tend to have longer hair and it costs more and takes more time to cut.  Why shouldn't that cost more than some guy getting a high and tight?

/csb
When I first moved to my current city, I went for a haircut.  Picked a place that had good reviews on Yelp.  I'm a woman, but I am also a very butch lesbian, so I go for a traditional man's cut--real short on the sides, a little less short on the top, straight line across the back, done.  My hair is stick straight, so easy to use the clippers for everything.
The shop I went to charged $20 for men's cuts, $30 for women's.  As I get there, two other guys are being seated to have their hair cut by the two old-man barbers.  I get picked up by one of the women.  I ask for a "man's cut," and she does my hair with just the clippers (which is totally fine).  My cut is finished before either of the men that were seated before me.  When it comes time to pay, the woman tries to charge me $30 for a women's cut.
Me: But I got a man's cut.
Her: Yes, but you're a woman.
Me: But the actual work you did was what you price as $20, not $30.
Her: But you're a woman.
Me: I'm not paying $10 more just for my ovaries.  I asked for a man's cut, and that's what you did.  According to your pricing board, I owe $20.
Her: Uuuhhh...I can't change the prices.
Me: Then I need to talk to someone who can.
She turns to some other woman, who waves her off and says it's "fine."  I pay my $20 and leave, to never return again.  At the time that I leave, the other two men are still getting their hair cut.

I've had the same haircut for years, and have always been charged the men's price, because that was the amount of work being done.  This place astounded me for it's sheer adherence to gender--I was supposed to pay $10 more for something that took waaaaay less t ...


Ha! As a man with long hair, I'm getting a kick...
 
2014-04-10 05:33:53 PM

Cold_Sassy: Lokkii: Everytime something like this comes up I flashxback to when I was the boss over an office with eight women and one guy. Generally things went OK but I always  remember the day the guy came into my office and asked,

"Why is it that men and women are equal when it's time to clean the breakroom, but when there's something heavy to lift, I'm the only guy in the office?"

Men are stronger.  Because Biology.


So, you should be fine with him being payed more, right; since he's required to do all the same work plus all the heavy lifting?
 
2014-04-10 06:37:46 PM
Yes, and women should get payed less because they do less work.
 
2014-04-10 08:07:15 PM

skinink: You been here four hour!


You scare my wife!
 
2014-04-11 12:19:12 PM

DarkPascual: ckccfa: Pathman: as for your hairdresser example, how is the all you can eat principle any different?  Men tend to be able to eat more so they are being charged for what they are "getting done" as well.

Women tend to have longer hair and it costs more and takes more time to cut.  Why shouldn't that cost more than some guy getting a high and tight?

/csb
When I first moved to my current city, I went for a haircut.  Picked a place that had good reviews on Yelp.  I'm a woman, but I am also a very butch lesbian, so I go for a traditional man's cut--real short on the sides, a little less short on the top, straight line across the back, done.  My hair is stick straight, so easy to use the clippers for everything.
The shop I went to charged $20 for men's cuts, $30 for women's.  As I get there, two other guys are being seated to have their hair cut by the two old-man barbers.  I get picked up by one of the women.  I ask for a "man's cut," and she does my hair with just the clippers blah blah blah...


Ha! As a man with long hair, I'm getting a kick...

img.pandawhale.com
 
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