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(Telegraph)   Let's look in on how self-government is working in Iraq. Oh, dear   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 79
    More: Sad, Iraq, Prime Minister of Iraq, marital rape, guardianship, Ayad Allawi, Iraqi government  
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8071 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Apr 2014 at 6:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-09 05:22:27 PM  
FTFA: Children under nine years old could be legally married

www.sectalk.com
 
2014-04-09 06:12:11 PM  

blatz514: FTFA: Children under nine years old could be legally married

[www.sectalk.com image 600x450]


Oh come on, how was I supposed to know she was married?
 
2014-04-09 06:47:55 PM  
Thanks, Obama!
 
2014-04-09 06:52:59 PM  
Barfmaker: Oh come on, how was I supposed to know she was married?

Good news! She's been found guilty of shaming her family and will be summarily stoned to death in the streets. You're off the hook!
 
2014-04-09 06:54:06 PM  
This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.
 
2014-04-09 06:54:51 PM  
Mister, they could use a man like Saddam Hussein again.
 
2014-04-09 06:55:59 PM  

iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.


It really depends on which nations we choose to build.  We always seem to try it on the most farked up, backward places we can find.  If we invaded and occupied Switzerland, then left them up to their own devices, they'd probably do better.
 
2014-04-09 06:56:25 PM  

iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.


We used to do a decent job.  Look at Japan.  Of course the nukes made them a bit weird but at least they're not constantly raping children
 
2014-04-09 06:56:59 PM  
What would Mohammed do about people marrying 9 year olds?
Oh, oops, nevermind.............. he'd do exactly that, and did. Carry on.
 
2014-04-09 06:57:30 PM  

Bowen: Mister, they could use a man like Saddam Hussein again.


People seemed to be content. Fifty Dinar paid the rent
 
2014-04-09 06:59:18 PM  

Starshines: iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.

It really depends on which nations we choose to build.  We always seem to try it on the most farked up, backward places we can find.  If we invaded and occupied Switzerland, then left them up to their own devices, they'd probably do better.


Granted, we might have better luck with Switzerland; but, we seem to intentionally screw up everything we do.
 
2014-04-09 06:59:55 PM  

Yakk: Bowen: Mister, they could use a man like Saddam Hussein again.

People seemed to be content. Fifty Dinar paid the rent


Something something camel tent.

Those were the days.
 
2014-04-09 07:00:37 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.

We used to do a decent job.  Look at Japan.  Of course the nukes made them a bit weird but at least they're not constantly raping children


Japan was a pretty orderly place to begin with. Plus, they don't want to get nuked again.
 
2014-04-09 07:00:45 PM  

Bowen: Mister, they could use a man like Saddam Hussein again.


Yep. At least he kept the religious nutjobs at bay.
 
2014-04-09 07:00:54 PM  
www.whomadeyoumirabelli.com

Nine year olds, dude...

2.bp.blogspot.com

Say what you will about the tenets of the Ba'ath party, Dude, at least there was no child marriage.
 
2014-04-09 07:01:38 PM  
The Brits did a great job of fixing Iraq in the 20's. You just have to be serious about it and beat the living crap out of them until they become tractable and obedient and do what they're told. Iraq had a democratic government and did real good until the Batheists showed up the 60's and overthrew the government.

We were never serious.
 
2014-04-09 07:02:31 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.

We used to do a decent job.  Look at Japan.  Of course the nukes made them a bit weird but at least they're not constantly raping children


Maybe they don't actually do it, but if you've seen some of their Manga, they sure do think about it a lot.
 
2014-04-09 07:03:14 PM  
Jaafari law you say? What an appropriately villainous name!
 
2014-04-09 07:06:00 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.

We used to do a decent job.  Look at Japan.  Of course the nukes made them a bit weird but at least they're not constantly raping children


Just octopi
 
2014-04-09 07:07:04 PM  

kling_klang_bed: What would Mohammed do about people marrying 9 year olds?
Oh, oops, nevermind.............. he'd do exactly that, and did. Carry on.


Agreed that it's wrong, but in Mohammed's day Christians were doing the EXACT same thing. It was a cultural norm in most of the world at the time.
 
2014-04-09 07:07:06 PM  
i50.tinypic.com
 
2014-04-09 07:07:45 PM  

iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.


This is why religion shouldn't be involved in politics.
 
2014-04-09 07:07:49 PM  
They need a strong man secular enough to stand up to the fundies

snarla.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-09 07:08:28 PM  

Atomic Spunk: Smeggy Smurf: iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.

We used to do a decent job.  Look at Japan.  Of course the nukes made them a bit weird but at least they're not constantly raping children

Maybe they don't actually do it, but if you've seen some of their Manga, they sure do think about it a lot.


From what I've read, it happens more than in the West, but girls keep silent.
 
2014-04-09 07:09:04 PM  
Can we ship our pedophiles over there?
 
2014-04-09 07:13:15 PM  

iheartscotch: Starshines: iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.

It really depends on which nations we choose to build.  We always seem to try it on the most farked up, backward places we can find.  If we invaded and occupied Switzerland, then left them up to their own devices, they'd probably do better.

Granted, we might have better luck with Switzerland; but, we seem to intentionally screw up everything we do.


I don't think we intentionally or unintentionally screwed anything up.  Syria has turned into a shiathole completely on its own.  Religious extremism doesn't care who is in charge or even who the shadow puppeteer is.  Up until the waning moments of the Iraq war, we were doing pretty good in Afghanistan(a million times better than the brutal Soviets), but Pakistan actively undermining the effort to produce a somewhat progressive Muslim nation(like Afghanistan was 60 years ago) more or less killed any chance it had of being a real success
 
2014-04-09 07:17:15 PM  

Livinglush: Agreed that it's wrong, but in Mohammed's day Christians were doing the EXACT same thing. It was a cultural norm in most of the world at the time.


And some of them are still trying to do this in the United States, too.
 
2014-04-09 07:17:29 PM  
I'd like to think, if the coalition forces knew of the ramifications  of "liberating" that region, and if the Americans knew of this, their response may have been a bit more muted. Granted, I'm no tree-hugging liberal, proud of the soldiers that served, but I believe the onus rests on that Diapsh*t o fa former president lining the pockets of his cronies by using the American people and those of other nationalities.
 
2014-04-09 07:20:11 PM  
Apparently some people think self government means "do it like we do."
 
2014-04-09 07:21:02 PM  

iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.


Yea, but we're aces at wrecking the motherfarkers, though.

Everybody had a talent.
 
2014-04-09 07:23:23 PM  

Yakk: Bowen: Mister, they could use a man like Saddam Hussein again.

People seemed to be content. Fifty Dinar paid the rent


Gee our old Camel ran great!
 
2014-04-09 07:23:44 PM  
That's awful. Girls should be playing soccer or playing outside with friends at that age. Prepubertal age relations is wrong. I hate this crap, there's like a window of 8 years to be aware of a good life without sexual things. Someone should do something about this.
 
2014-04-09 07:26:51 PM  
10 years you were there "winning hearts and minds". 10 years!

Nobody expected a miracle, but at least some improvement for women would be nice.

By the way, if someone is interested how the things are going in other countries where USA "helped", how about some Libya?

"In February, Libya's Supreme Court lifted restrictions on polygamy, enabling a man to marry up to four wives without the prior consent of his first wife. In April, the Ministry of Social Affairs suspended issuing marriage licenses for Libyan women marrying foreigners after a call by Grand Mufti al-Sadeq al-Ghariani to avoid spreading "other" religions in Libya. In the absence of a Personal Status Law, the law Concerning the Specific Provisions on Marriage and Divorce and their Consequences, Law No. 10 of 1984 is the only current legislation dealing with domestic violence, but enforcement remains weak. "   http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/libya

You know, when you spread freedom and democracy around the globe, it would be nice to have some freedom and democracy to actually spread, and not just chaos and death count.
 
2014-04-09 07:28:22 PM  
Why do you think the Scots keep talking about self rule.
 
2014-04-09 07:33:18 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.

We used to do a decent job.  Look at Japan.  Of course the nukes made them a bit weird but at least they're not constantly raping children


Nope. Just drawing it in their porn.
 
2014-04-09 07:33:52 PM  

Ex-Texan: I'd like to think, if the coalition forces knew of the ramifications  of "liberating" that region, and if the Americans knew of this, their response may have been a bit more muted. Granted, I'm no tree-hugging liberal, proud of the soldiers that served, but I believe the onus rests on that Diapsh*t o fa former president lining the pockets of his cronies by using the American people and those of other nationalities.


Yeahh, interesting thing is they did know. In PGW1 they could have gone all the way to Baghdad but they knew it was going to be a clusterfark. They knew about the different ideologies and how it would ignite a religious battle. None of what happened was a surprise once the State department decided to take over.
 
2014-04-09 07:36:02 PM  

Ex-Texan: Granted, I'm no tree-hugging liberal, proud of the soldiers that served,


Yes, because every tree-hugging liberal thinks the troops are bad.

/Really, you can take the "Ex-" out of your handle if you think like that...
 
2014-04-09 07:52:47 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.

We used to do a decent job.  Look at Japan.  Of course the nukes made them a bit weird but at least they're not constantly raping children


Japan had a working government, and we left their societal structure more or less intact. Sure, we forced the Emperor to stop calling himself a god. But he was still head of state with more or less the same power he had before. (Which is to say he still was more or less a puppet.)

The same is true in Germany. We may have re-arranged who was at which desk. But the agencies were already in place.

Now contrast this to the Soviet block. The Soviets would go in, upend everything: Religion, Economy, Political structure. The local workings of government were made an appendage of the Soviet centrally controlled machine.  And when the machine stopped, most of Eastern Europe was in the hurt box. Pretty much having to build everything up from first principles.
 
2014-04-09 08:16:31 PM  
Well, it's time for a new direction in Middle Eastern policy. It's clearly been established that the backwards farks who live there will never embrace democracy. Instead of "nation building", our policy should be that everyone in the Middle East is an asshole. Just blow up everything and start again!
//Joking
///Kind of...
 
2014-04-09 08:16:45 PM  
So when does the Vatican move there?
 
2014-04-09 08:18:22 PM  
The moral is that people are the problem. Always have been and always will be. Every government on the planet is in some ways a farking disaster because it's made by and of people, and most people are stupid selfish jerks.

/Jument for world dictator!
 
2014-04-09 08:21:20 PM  

edmo: Apparently some people think self government means "do it like we do."


Therein lies the fundamental flaw of Bush's thinking: you can liberate people and give them the right to vote, but then you can't stop them from voting for Sharia law and child marriage.
 
2014-04-09 08:21:50 PM  
Hmm, so, Iran was a secular democracy, and we couped the shiat out of them, now there is a fundy system, and women get pissed on.

Afghanistan was under a government that gave rights to women, and we sent in Tim Osman Osama Bin Ladin to sort it out, and now women can get shot for going to school.

Iraq, admittedly under a pretty shiatty dictator, still managed to have a secular set up that respected the rights of women, and we liberated the shiat out of that system, and now Pedobear is King, and Al Quaeda is cool.

Libya was also run by a bit of a nutty dictator, yet even there used to have women attending universities. Now, of course, it is run by Al Quaeda types who are now over in.........

Syria, the next country, this time a victim of our proxy liberation. You think Assad is bad? The people who brought you 9/11 are busy killing as many Christians and Jews over there as they can get their hands on, and hope to get a good ole Bronze Age Sky Wizard Government in place of the nasty secular one they have now.

Perhaps America can bring the liberation home, and you will be free to physically discipline you seven year old wife in public for being too uppity.

Your tax dollars at work.
 
2014-04-09 08:26:53 PM  
I think the real problem is trying to ascribe the morality of our civilized society onto a bunch of farking savages. It's a tribal society trying to act 21st century. Either we change them, or we turn our back and walk away. Walking away means cutting off the allowance too.
 
2014-04-09 08:29:01 PM  

apeman12: It's a tribal society trying to act 21st century.


Pretty much this.
 
2014-04-09 08:31:33 PM  

apeman12: I think the real problem is trying to ascribe the morality of our civilized society onto a bunch of farking savages. It's a tribal society trying to act 21st century. Either we change them, or we turn our back and walk away. Walking away means cutting off the allowance too.


Yes, they just don't get that civilized societies go into other countries, bomb the shiat out of them, ferment sectarian hate, steal their shiat, poison them with DU and other crap, and generally fark them up.

When will these darkies ever learn.
 
2014-04-09 08:35:37 PM  

Starshines: iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.

It really depends on which nations we choose to build.  We always seem to try it on the most farked up, backward places we can find.  If we invaded and occupied Switzerland, then left them up to their own devices, they'd probably do better.


Or Canada.  Canada would be ok, and our supply lines would be stupid short.
 
2014-04-09 08:35:58 PM  

iheartscotch: This is why we shouldn't be involved in nation building; we suck at it.


This.  Iraqis needed to fix Iraq, on their terms.
 
2014-04-09 08:37:01 PM  

apeman12: I think the real problem is trying to ascribe the morality of our civilized society onto a bunch of farking savages. It's a tribal society trying to act 21st century. Either we change them, or we turn our back and walk away. Walking away means cutting off the allowance too.


While I agree that there's some truth to that, it's also true that we have had both our hands in that soup-sandwich for a long time and we carry a lot of blame for arming various sides, then abandoning them or trying to manipulate them against each other.

Once you bugger it up, it's sort of yours to un-bugger....like that works.
 
2014-04-09 08:37:32 PM  

kling_klang_bed: What would Mohammed do about people marrying 9 year olds?
Oh, oops, nevermind.............. he'd do exactly that, and did. Carry on.


A lot of the reprehensible things found in Islam were around long before Mohammad was a gleam in his daddy's eye.  Like all religions, it didn't pop into existence out of nothing, it evolved from older faiths.
 
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