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(CNN)   Man convicted of murder though he was 2000 miles away, with video and photos to back him up, released after 24 years. The police withheld exculpatory evidence. How does his lawyer hope to make things right? "We're suing everybody, let's be honest"   (cnn.com) divider line 289
    More: Cool, Jonathan Fleming, exculpatory evidence  
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17272 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Apr 2014 at 11:41 AM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-09 10:30:55 AM
Those responsible for convicting him will still collect pensions and the taxpayers will foot the bill for any judgement he receives.

/pigs
 
2014-04-09 10:40:31 AM
Man, it's hard to imagine being in that poor guy's shoes.  A 25 year long nightmare you can't wake up from.
 
2014-04-09 10:41:57 AM

the_celt: Those responsible for convicting him will still collect pensions and the taxpayers will foot the bill for any judgement he receives.

/pigs


They should all be rotting in jail, the bastards.
 
2014-04-09 10:51:44 AM
Let me guess, he's-

*click*

Yep.
 
2014-04-09 11:00:10 AM
Police and prosecutor corruption could be solved immediately tomorrow.

Very simple - if you are convicted of withholding evidence you are immediately given the maximum sentence allowable for the crime that the individual was charged with.

Withholding evidence in an armed robbery case - max for armed robbery
Withholding evidence in a capital murder case - death penalty

What about this isn't fair?
 
2014-04-09 11:19:41 AM

Tigger: What about this isn't fair?


Because the seriousness and scope of that deed is far worse than, for example, armed robbery. They have a sacred obligation.
 
2014-04-09 11:23:36 AM

Tigger: Police and prosecutor corruption could be solved immediately tomorrow.

Very simple - if you are convicted of withholding evidence you are immediately given the maximum sentence allowable for the crime that the individual was charged with.

Withholding evidence in an armed robbery case - max for armed robbery
Withholding evidence in a capital murder case - death penalty

What about this isn't fair?


Actually, you don't even have to do that.

http://columbialawreview.org/ham-sandwich-nation_reynolds/

One source of imbalance is prosecutorial immunity. The absolute immunity of prosecutors-like the absolute immunity of judges-is a judicial invention, a species of judicial activism that gets less attention than many other less egregious examples. Although such immunity no doubt prevents significant mischief, it also enables significant mischief by eliminating one major avenue of accountability. Even a shift to qualified, good faith immunity for prosecutors would change the calculus significantly, making subsequent review something that is at least possible.
 
Another remedy might be a "loser pays" rule for criminal defense costs. After all, when a person is charged with a crime, the defense-for which non-indigent defendants bear the cost-is an integral part of the criminal justice process.17 For guilty defendants, one might view this cost as part of the punishment. But for those found not guilty, it looks more like a taking: Spend this money in the public interest to support a public endeavor, or go to jail. Perhaps the prosecution could be required to pay a defendant's legal fees if he or she is not convicted. To further discipline the process, one could implement a pro-rate system: Charge a defendant with twenty offenses, but convict on only one, and the prosecution must bear 95% of the defendant's legal fees. This would certainly discourage overcharging.
 
2014-04-09 11:28:02 AM
Heh, that's a real quote, which is hilarious...
 
2014-04-09 11:29:48 AM
Remember, kids - the Policeman is your friend!  Prosecutors are only after the truth!  You can trust the system!

the_celt: Those responsible for convicting him will still collect pensions and the taxpayers will foot the bill for any judgement he receives.

/pigs


This is what really galls me.  It will be nearly impossible to pinpoint the exact person who did it.  So no one on the police side or prosecution side will face real harm from this.  The system is designed to make it impossible to hold authority accountable.  And even in the rare cases where they are held accountable, the taxpayers pay their defense (a vigorous defense, of course), pay their salaries during it while they take a vacation, and pay the settlement.

"Pigs" is not a strong enough word.
 
2014-04-09 11:36:35 AM

Tigger: Police and prosecutor corruption could be solved immediately tomorrow.

Very simple - if you are convicted of withholding evidence you are immediately given the maximum sentence allowable for the crime that the individual was charged with.

Withholding evidence in an armed robbery case - max for armed robbery
Withholding evidence in a capital murder case - death penalty

What about this isn't fair?


Hell, I'd be happy with just a little jail time - and of course disbarment.  Want to withhold that receipt from evidence?  You'd be facing losing your career and 6 months upstate.  Suddenly, the prosecutor's win-loss record wouldn't seem so important.
 
2014-04-09 11:42:44 AM
Sue away, you have my blessings.
 
2014-04-09 11:43:51 AM

SilentStrider: Sue away, you have my blessings.


Yep.
 
2014-04-09 11:47:27 AM

the_celt: Those responsible for convicting him will still collect pensions and the taxpayers will foot the bill for any judgement he receives.

/pigs


It should be a requirement that if you're found to have withheld exculpatory evidence, you spend just as long in the same kind of jail as your victim did.
 
2014-04-09 11:47:29 AM
Sue all the things!
 
2014-04-09 11:47:56 AM
In their defense, he's that Stretch Armstrong guy.  They thought he just stretched his arms 2000 miles long to commit the murder.
 
2014-04-09 11:48:33 AM

Hack Patooey: SilentStrider: Sue away, you have my blessings.

Yep.


This is pretty much the kind of thing lawsuits were made for.
 
2014-04-09 11:48:44 AM

dittybopper: Actually, you don't even have to do that.


That is a simultaneously erudite and terrifying essay.
 
2014-04-09 11:48:56 AM
theupsidedownworld.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-09 11:50:20 AM

wxboy: Heh, that's a real quote, which is hilarious...


On one hand, hilarious. On the other hand, that's exactly what I'd like to see in an attorney if this was me.
 
2014-04-09 11:50:38 AM

Tigger: Very simple - if you are convicted of withholding evidence you are immediately given the maximum sentence allowable for the crime that the individual was charged with.


The only real problem with this is that the DA and judges are, more often than not, in line with the police officers. That is why their verbal testimony, while only hearsay, weighs more than your verbal testimony (even if it includes evidence).
 
2014-04-09 11:51:02 AM

Chariset: Let me guess, he's-

*click*

Yep.


It's not because he's an urban male. He was most likely poor. That's why he was railroaded.
 
2014-04-09 11:52:13 AM
Those Texas judges......Wait.  New York?

What kind of defense attorney did this guy have?  You couldn't have called the hotel in Orlando yourself for a copy of the receipt?
 
2014-04-09 11:52:35 AM
"But why'd the police withhold evidence and pressure a woman on parole to falsely provide witness testimony?"

images.tvfanatic.com
 
2014-04-09 11:52:55 AM
dittybopper:

Great article. I have forwarded to Mrs Tigger and Mrs Tigger-in-law who are a lawyer and a judge respectively.

Thank you.
 
2014-04-09 11:53:21 AM
$6M and a cut in the pensions from those involved with the cover-up.

Make it so.
 
2014-04-09 11:53:48 AM
Tigger


Police and prosecutor corruption could be solved immediately tomorrow.

Very simple - if you are convicted of withholding evidence you are immediately given the maximum sentence allowable for the crime that the individual was charged with.

Withholding evidence in an armed robbery case - max for armed robbery
Withholding evidence in a capital murder case - death penalty

What about this isn't fair?


They will learn to withhold evidence better.

The prosecutions job is to get a conviction regardless of guilt as the defense is to get acquitted regardless of guilt.
 
2014-04-09 11:53:54 AM
Has anyone else noticed something odd about these cases?  It's almost always around the 24-year mark when they're exonerated.  Are there some statutes of limitations that they're letting play out, keeping it tied up in appeals until someone finally says, "Whoops, somebody farked up"?
 
2014-04-09 11:54:08 AM

gweilo8888: the_celt: Those responsible for convicting him will still collect pensions and the taxpayers will foot the bill for any judgement he receives.

/pigs

It should be a requirement that if you're found to have withheld exculpatory evidence, you spend just as long in the same kind of jail as your victim did.


Such a system would discourage police officers from withholding evidence that might exonerate someone who they know to be a bad person, even if they cannot prove it. Therefore, your proposal is entirely unreasonable.
 
2014-04-09 11:54:08 AM
I really don't understand the mentality amongst some LEOs and DAs to get a conviction at all costs, rather than pursue the real culprit(s) and get actual justice for the victim(s).
 
2014-04-09 11:55:12 AM
Why isn't Dateline or 48 Hours or 60 Minutes finding all the retired judges and prosecutors and sticking a camera in their face "How do you feel knowing the actual killer is free??"
 
2014-04-09 11:55:55 AM
I hope everyone involved with this cover-up gets sued to Oblivion over this.

Hell, even if they're dead by now, dig em up, dump the carcass(es) out, and sell their caskets for scrap metal value if need be.
 
2014-04-09 11:55:57 AM
Cops don't care if someone is guilty or not. They just want to close cases.
 
2014-04-09 11:56:05 AM
His mother said he is a fighter.
She is damn right he is.
Listening to him talk, he did not sound like an idiot and not  broken man after all that he has been through.
And his mom, bless her heart. Just happy to have her son back.


Sue everyone involved in this.....by all means yes.
Fark them all for what they did to this guy.
 
2014-04-09 11:57:11 AM

dittybopper: Another remedy might be a "loser pays" rule for criminal defense costs. After all, when a person is charged with a crime, the defense-for which non-indigent defendants bear the cost-is an integral part of the criminal justice process.17 For guilty defendants, one might view this cost as part of the punishment. But for those found not guilty, it looks more like a taking: Spend this money in the public interest to support a public endeavor, or go to jail. Perhaps the prosecution could be required to pay a defendant's legal fees if he or she is not convicted. To further discipline the process, one could implement a pro-rate system: Charge a defendant with twenty offenses, but convict on only one, and the prosecution must bear 95% of the defendant's legal fees. This would certainly discourage overcharging.


Wouldn't that *INCENTIVIZE* prosecutors to withhold exculpatory evidence, though?
 
2014-04-09 11:57:39 AM
1989 the number, another summer, get down the sound of the funky drummer


/got nuthin'
//sue away wrongfully-convicted man
 
2014-04-09 11:57:47 AM
"As you can imagine, after sitting in jail for 25 years for a crime he didn't commit, he can't help but feel vindicated pissed as all Hell,"

FTFY
 
2014-04-09 11:57:58 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Remember, kids - the Policeman is your friend!  Prosecutors are only after the truth!  You can trust the system!

the_celt: Those responsible for convicting him will still collect pensions and the taxpayers will foot the bill for any judgement he receives.

/pigs

This is what really galls me.  It will be nearly impossible to pinpoint the exact person who did it.  So no one on the police side or prosecution side will face real harm from this.  The system is designed to make it impossible to hold authority accountable.  And even in the rare cases where they are held accountable, the taxpayers pay their defense (a vigorous defense, of course), pay their salaries during it while they take a vacation, and pay the settlement.

"Pigs" is not a strong enough word.


How about "swine"? It's getting closer.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-09 11:58:47 AM
And this is why I am against the death penalty.
 
2014-04-09 11:58:59 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: Cops don't care if someone is guilty or not. They just want to close cases.


Sadly, THIS.

Cops, prosecutors, and judges don't care about Justice. All they care about is keeping the for-profit prison industry frequently supplied with fresh meat.
 
2014-04-09 11:59:29 AM
Jonathan Fleming you've just been found not guilty of murder. Where you going to now?
 
2014-04-09 11:59:42 AM
I'm usually on the side of the law, but seriously, fark these guys in the eye with a fork.

/and can we please get rid of absolute prosecutorial immunity.
 
2014-04-09 11:59:53 AM
And just why the hell is it "those responsible"?

WTF? Media, THAT is the news we want. I suppose it would be too much reporting work to read the documents of his prosecutor and asshat attorneys.
 
2014-04-09 12:00:07 PM

Another Government Employee: Those Texas judges......Wait.  New York?


This incident has greatly shaken my faith in the benevolence of the government of the city of New York.
 
2014-04-09 12:00:48 PM
I hope they give him 10 minutes alone in private with each of the assholes that had a part in his conviction.
 
2014-04-09 12:00:50 PM
Cool tag is Sad
 
2014-04-09 12:00:58 PM
The prosecutor in this case has long moved on to a judgeship or a fat, corporate lawyer position where they collect millions to play golf, fark secretaries, get hammered/stoned/tuned up/all-of-previous while on the job. The cops involved have retired to a pension of $150k a year (plus their other retirement income) and moved away to live in obscurity, sleeping well at night with no concern at all for the wreckage of all the destroyed lives they've left behind.

Nobody will be held accountable for any of this. The victim will eventually settle out of court in a hushed up settlement for far less than he deserves. Probably end up with $10million (taxed, of course) and be broke in a couple years because getting ass raped in prison for 25 years doesnt exactly prepare one to deal with large lump sums of money.

farking disgusting situation all around.
 
2014-04-09 12:01:30 PM

Dimensio: Such a system would discourage police officers from withholding evidence that might exonerate someone who they know to be a bad person, even if they cannot prove it. Therefore, your proposal is entirely unreasonable.


That's OK, it was too wishy-washy anyway. My initial thought was to have the withholding individuals peeled, salted, and dipped in lemon juice before being jailed.
 
2014-04-09 12:01:39 PM

stuhayes2010: And this is why I am against the death penalty.


THIS is what makes the death penalty not morally acceptable.

IMHO, the penalty is simply being misapplied.
 
2014-04-09 12:02:03 PM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Tigger


Police and prosecutor corruption could be solved immediately tomorrow.

Very simple - if you are convicted of withholding evidence you are immediately given the maximum sentence allowable for the crime that the individual was charged with.

Withholding evidence in an armed robbery case - max for armed robbery
Withholding evidence in a capital murder case - death penalty

What about this isn't fair?


They will learn to withhold evidence better.

The prosecutions job is to get a conviction regardless of guilt as the defense is to get acquitted regardless of guilt.


try the article dittybopper posted. It's actually very good.
 
2014-04-09 12:02:51 PM

stuffy: Jonathan Fleming you've just been found not guilty of murder. Where you going to now?


replygif.net
 
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