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(WPXI.com)   Reports that 20 students have been hurt after multiple stabbings at Franklin Regional High School near Pittsburgh   (wpxi.com) divider line 742
    More: News, Franklin Regional High School, Pittsburgh, Westmoreland County  
•       •       •

8434 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Apr 2014 at 9:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



742 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-09 01:14:47 PM  

NightOwl2255: TheShavingofOccam123: NightOwl2255: TheShavingofOccam123: Open carry and CCW are not the same thing. But doublespeak makes it so.

Open carry. Concealed carry. Yes, not the same at all. Not like they both mean to carry a firearm on your person. Not like the difference is as simple as a tucked in shirt. Nope, completely different animals.

Maybe these people can help explain the difference

http://www.opencarry.org/

Ah, so you were referring to the legal difference, not the practical difference. Because those are two very different animals. Almost doublespeak different.


One and a half speak. Maybe.

Nuance is everything and the NRA and anti-gun-grabbers are very good at things like using semantics to fog the difference between open carry and CCW.
 
2014-04-09 01:15:13 PM  
How about instead of going after tools used for attacking other human beings, we go after the motives human beings have to want to make them want to hurt other people to begin with?

No?

Okay, carry on.
 
2014-04-09 01:16:16 PM  

thefatbasturd: d23: The_Sponge: Baz744: Enhanced gun safety laws may or may not be part of the solution to the problem of mass violence in schools and public places.


And what enhanced "gun safety" laws do you want to see passed?


Let's diagram this argument out.

1) We don't know exactly the best way to write a "gun safety" law.
2) Therefore, lets not do it.

I am glad the Apollo program didn't take the same approach.

Really? A perfectly logical and reasonable question is asked and you jump to that kind of hyperbole instead of at least an attemptat an actual answer? Gee! It's clear any gun control plan people like you might come up with would be COMPLETELY reasonable.


I don't think the status quo is working. Therefore I think some reforms need to be made. It would ne nice to discuss this like mature adults and try to find a middle ground everyone can be happy with. Instead we get the "gun grabber" BS.

ive given up on this issue a while ago because neither side is too mature to talk about it.
 
2014-04-09 01:16:19 PM  

Deece: I'm bookmarking this thread to refer to anytime I start to think that I miss fark, and forget how derpy it's become.


Bless your heart.
 
2014-04-09 01:17:41 PM  

Weatherkiss: How about instead of going after tools used for attacking other human beings, we go after the motives human beings have to want to make them want to hurt other people to begin with?

No?

Okay, carry on.


You know nobody wants to pay for that, just use it as a convenient deflection?
 
2014-04-09 01:17:42 PM  

Naesen: My favorite quote from this whole scenario was "20 children were wounded with four flown out by helicopter, but none with life threatening injuries." This was from WTOP. How stupid do you think your readership is? You don't stick a kid on a helicopter because he broke a bone, got stabbed but not too bad, or given themselves a mild concussion. You stick em on a helicopter when a local hospital is incapable of proper treatment and that the kid will most likely die by the time a ground transport gets them to the hospital that can.



Where I live, we have three hospitals in a 10-minute drive, one just a few blocks from our house.  But the nearest pediatric ICU is in a hospital 90 minutes away.  If there's any reason a kid needs to go to the ICU, it's an automatic helicopter ride.
 
2014-04-09 01:17:49 PM  

Weatherkiss: How about instead of going after tools used for attacking other human beings, we go after the motives human beings have to want to make them want to hurt other people to begin with?

No?

Okay, carry on.


Cause that would be socialism
 
2014-04-09 01:19:23 PM  

thefatbasturd: Baz744: thefatbasturd: Gun, knife, it doesn't matter.

Gun, knife; it matters because guns have a much higher lethality rate than knives. Guns are objectively more dangerous than knives. To deny this conclusively proves you are stupid or evil.

thefatbasturd: Face it. If you are focusing all your fear and energy on whatever tool a school assailant is using, you are part of the problem.

No. People concerned about firearms safety are in no way part of the problem. Stupid or evil people who deny that guns are objectively more dangerous than nearly all other commonly used instruments of murder, however, are part of the problem.

This is doubly true because the people most likely to support compassionate, progressive mental health policy cross over heavily with the people concerned about firearms safety; while the people who support draconian or judgmental responses to assorted abnormal behaviors which may be predictive in these cases (thereby encouraging affected individuals to hide their abnormalities rather than seek support to address them) cross over heavily with the stupid and evil people who say guns are no more dangerous than pillows.

Moreover, those who support generous public funding of mental health support cross over heavily with the first group; those who believe public funding for anything other than the military and police constitutes tyranny cross over heavily with the second group.

Enhanced gun safety laws may or may not be part of the solution to the problem of mass violence in schools and public places. But those who favor them are far less likely to be part of the problem than are the stupid and evil people who maintain that guns are no more dangerous than pillows/knives/milk/a bag of walnuts.

Wall of anti-gun rhetoric, opinion about correlation between pro-mental health beliefs and pro-gun control beliefs stated as fact, and personal attacks. Yep. You are not part of the problem at ALL.

You act like there is absolutely no gun control already. T ...


Funny, you don't hear about people getting mowed down with Thompsons anymore in this country. Or blown up with grenades. Or about mortar attacks against churches (granted, you have to go back a ways to find that one, and that one was actually a militia). Remember the roaring 20's and the days of prohibition? Those days weren't a joke, nor were they misrepresented in the history books.

Funny how after the NFA was passed....you started seeing stories about Chicago typewriters being used to clear a speakeasy disappear. All of a sudden the tools of overwhelming force preferred by gangland thugs were a huge liability. They could still get them, they weren't banned. But now they could be tracked back to them.

Gun control DOES work. So long as it's control. Case in point? From the passage of the NFA to the passage of FOPA in 1986 (which effectively relegated select fire weapons to luxuries) you can find 2, count them, 2 instances of NFA controlled weapons being used in crimes. Both of those crimes don't really count because they were committed by LEOs and to this day LEOs still have access to weapons banned under FOPA.

So, to that end, you have no farking idea what you're talking about.
 
2014-04-09 01:19:56 PM  
The name of the 16-year-old suspect has not been released by police, however a student at the school told ABC News the person believed to be the alleged stabber seemed like a "pretty normal kid."

Clearly we need to ban "pretty normal kid"s be a freak or get the fu*k out
 
2014-04-09 01:20:11 PM  

LasersHurt: Weatherkiss: How about instead of going after tools used for attacking other human beings, we go after the motives human beings have to want to make them want to hurt other people to begin with?

No?

Okay, carry on.

You know nobody wants to pay for that, just use it as a convenient deflection?


It gets in the way of more tax cuts.

The private sector can deal with it.
 
2014-04-09 01:22:12 PM  

Weatherkiss: How about instead of going after tools used for attacking other human beings, we go after the motives human beings have to want to make them want to hurt other people to begin with?


How about a blended approach?  Changing human nature is really hard (read: virtually impossible).  Humans are going to attack other humans.  Effectively controlling the most dangerous tools available is also hard, but not nearly as hard as changing human nature.

I'll repeat my question for dogloverin case anyone else wants to respond:   If your (real or hypothetical) child was in a school that someone decided to attack, would you prefer the attacker to have a knife or a gun?
 
2014-04-09 01:22:59 PM  

thefatbasturd: Wall of anti-gun rhetoric, opinion about correlation between pro-mental health beliefs and pro-gun control beliefs stated as fact, and personal attacks. Yep. You are not part of the problem at ALL.

You act like there is absolutely no gun control already. There are. Background checks are already there. What makes you think that NEW legislation is going to be any more effective than what is already in place? It won't be. Because you CANNOT legislate this country to zero gun deaths. Someone planning to use a gun to break the law against killing people is not going to be stopped by breaking another law or two. Even if you outright banned all goes ns tomorrow because it will NOT make them disappear. Sucks but it is true. And when any NEW legislation proves to be ineffective the answer from the anti-gun side will be "Well we just need a little MORE control..." and the process will start all over. If closing the gun show loophole makes you somehow feel a little safer when you go to sleep at night, hey, go right a head. I have no problem with that. But after you find that it has done FARKALL to actually make anyone safer, you don't get to come back asking for more.


See, you have already determined that any new law will fail. You are what's wrong because what we need are people willing to find what will work, and if you are dead set that any new law will fail. We need people who are willing toward working towards ending these type of tragedies, not throw up their hands.
 
2014-04-09 01:24:41 PM  

probesport: Bullseyed: That isn't how it works in real life.

[fc09.deviantart.net image 640x288]


I un friend you.....
 
2014-04-09 01:25:22 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: NightOwl2255: TheShavingofOccam123: NightOwl2255: TheShavingofOccam123: Open carry and CCW are not the same thing. But doublespeak makes it so.

Open carry. Concealed carry. Yes, not the same at all. Not like they both mean to carry a firearm on your person. Not like the difference is as simple as a tucked in shirt. Nope, completely different animals.

Maybe these people can help explain the difference

http://www.opencarry.org/

Ah, so you were referring to the legal difference, not the practical difference. Because those are two very different animals. Almost doublespeak different.

One and a half speak. Maybe.

Nuance is everything and the NRA and anti-gun-grabbers are very good at things like using semantics to fog the difference between open carry and CCW.


I feel like I should reply, but to be honest, I'm a bit foggy on what you mean.
 
2014-04-09 01:26:59 PM  
Damn Wolf Blitzer says some really stupid things.
 
2014-04-09 01:27:09 PM  

GnomePaladin: Weatherkiss: How about instead of going after tools used for attacking other human beings, we go after the motives human beings have to want to make them want to hurt other people to begin with?

How about a blended approach?  Changing human nature is really hard (read: virtually impossible).  Humans are going to attack other humans.  Effectively controlling the most dangerous tools available is also hard, but not nearly as hard as changing human nature.

I'll repeat my question for dogloverin case anyone else wants to respond:   If your (real or hypothetical) child was in a school that someone decided to attack, would you prefer the attacker to have a knife or a gun?


A knife, but not so strongly that multiplying it by the probability of such an attack results in a value larger than the desire for firearms to in general be accessible to the populace.
 
2014-04-09 01:28:38 PM  
Control-F, "gun"

523 mentions of "gun"

514 comments

sigh...
 
2014-04-09 01:29:21 PM  
 
2014-04-09 01:29:22 PM  
I bet the kid was just tired of hearing "Mike, Mike guess what day it is?"

/I see all of the oblig hurp and durp is been covered in 2 pages.
//slashies
///more slashies
 
2014-04-09 01:30:37 PM  

Vacation Bible School: enry: nekom: Now they're saying 7 victims sent to hospitals and the suspect in custody is a male student.

Must have spent the night playing Grand Theft Kitchen.

WHY can't someone attack their school with a 3 foot dildo-bat instead?


because that would be funny, and we can have any of that going around here.  besides i dont want to see the NDA (national dildo association) show up on tv, with ron jeremy as their spokesman, talking about how they can pry that dildo from his cold dead hands.
 
2014-04-09 01:30:49 PM  

Ned Stark: A knife, but not so strongly that multiplying it by the probability of such an attack results in a value larger than the desire for firearms to in general be accessible to the populace.


I hope you never have to find out, but I wonder if you would feel the same way should one of your kids be shot in school.

Probabilities are great things to calculate when considering whether or not to buy a lottery ticket, some other times not so much.
 
2014-04-09 01:31:37 PM  

Mrtraveler01: I don't think the status quo is working. Therefore I think some reforms need to be made. It would ne nice to discuss this like mature adults and try to find a middle ground everyone can be happy with. Instead we get the "gun grabber" BS.



If somebody thinks that banning "assault weapons" and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds is the way to go, then they have earned the "gun grabber" title.
 
2014-04-09 01:32:47 PM  

Apatheist: Control-F, "gun"

523 mentions of "gun"

514 comments

sigh...


You added two more, then I just added two more.

/gun
//three more guns
///damnit i said gun again
////and 4
 
2014-04-09 01:34:46 PM  

Cdr.Murdock: Magorn: TwoHead: kronicfeld: I wonder what a comparative study would reveal about the relative fatality rate of a knife-wielding assailant versus a gun-wielding assailant?

Oh, wait, I don't wonder that at all.

A crazed gunman has to stop to reload but that maniac with a knife never runs out of ammo.  Guns, as our nation's founders intended, are inherently safer by far.

Well, especially if we get all "Originalist" on the 2nd amendment and not the founding father's CLEARLY meant single shot muzzle-loading firearms since that was all they knew existed.  I for the record support the absolute right to keep and bear muzzle- loading Flintlocks by all Americans, as I believe most Citizen's attention spans are too damn short to successfully pull off a mass shooting with one of those babies

Yeah, and by your shiatty flawed logic, freedom of speech doesn't extend to such newfangled contraptions as radio, TV, and the Internet.

Go back to spreading your idiotic tripe this way, and MAYBE you would have an argument.

[img.fark.net image 281x300]


You mad?
 
2014-04-09 01:35:15 PM  

BigNumber12: Don't worry, I get it. My point was only that these events are far more common now than they were back then. I firmly believe that the media/fame/copycat aspect is contributing strongly, but even so, it seems like it would take more than that to be causing these numbers.


I think it's simply the post-2008 surge in the number of people with firearms, and the nature of a lot of those people.  Firearms are more widespread, and marketed to an emerging culture of weekend warriors who refer to the old guard as "Fudds" because they only use firearms rather than fantasizing about them.

Regardless of how people feel about gun control, pretty much everyone agrees that certain people are better off without a firearm.  Schizophrenics, impulsive morons, suicidal teenagers, paranoids who think that the UN is about to get them, or that young people are about to knockout-game them.  We get more shootings if those people have guns, and right now we have a cultural trend that increases the proportion of those people with guns.

Wind the clock back to 2004, or 1994, and the Adam Lanza of that time simply didn't have a mom with a stash of semiautomatic rifles.  It wasn't a thing that moms did.  Maybe some moms in North Dakota, but not Connecticut.  The industry did a great job of riding the post-Obama gun-grabber paranoia to not only sell hella firearms to militia folk, but to market cosmetically cinematic weapons to a new market of enthusiasts.  That alone probably explains why we see more shootings; the kind of people who would commit those shootings are more likely, on average, to have a gun.
 
2014-04-09 01:35:23 PM  

Deece: I'm bookmarking this thread to refer to anytime I start to think that I miss fark, and forget how derpy it's become.


31.media.tumblr.com
You have a problem with Derpy?
 
2014-04-09 01:37:05 PM  

GnomePaladin: Ned Stark: A knife, but not so strongly that multiplying it by the probability of such an attack results in a value larger than the desire for firearms to in general be accessible to the populace.

I hope you never have to find out, but I wonder if you would feel the same way should one of your kids be shot in school.

Probabilities are great things to calculate when considering whether or not to buy a lottery ticket, some other times not so much.


Errrm, and why not exactly? Decisions should be made with an as accurate picture of the world as possible.
 
2014-04-09 01:37:58 PM  

mschwenk: vpb: And I'll bet that most (if not all) survive.

It's almost as though you have a better chance of surviving if you aren't attacked with something that is designed specifically to kill people.

Actually, That doesn't hold true. Survivability rates are usually equal. With an advantage going to the survival of gunshot victims in severe cases.

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2014/01/band/


10 years ago it was a greater divide. 70% gunshot survival compared to 30% stabbing survival.


That's not what that article says at all:

"A third of patients with gunshot wounds (33.0 percent) died compared with 7.7 percent of patients with stab wounds. "
 
2014-04-09 01:38:02 PM  

TheYeti: farkette716: TheYeti: It's almost as if there is a deeper societal problem than that of the availability of weapons.

I think everyone is lonely and technology has made us this way. People are meaner to each other and don't care about others. Most people just try to dominate conversations and bring people down a notch.

Could be.  I agree that the isolation and the relative anonymity of the internet might have something to do with it, but I really have no idea.

Something has fundamentally changed in past couple of decades and it scares the shiat out of me.


We stopped locking up people that we knew were crazy, because they have rights too. The streets are full of them.

The other thing we stopped doing was giving a shiat about our children in an attempt to be their friends.
 
2014-04-09 01:39:32 PM  

The_Sponge: Mrtraveler01: I don't think the status quo is working. Therefore I think some reforms need to be made. It would ne nice to discuss this like mature adults and try to find a middle ground everyone can be happy with. Instead we get the "gun grabber" BS.


If somebody thinks that banning "assault weapons" and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds is the way to go, then they have earned the "gun grabber" title.


Yeah. Like I said. We can't talk about this like responsible adults so fark it.
 
2014-04-09 01:39:49 PM  

Callous: Damn Wolf Blitzer says some really stupid things.



He is almost as stupid as Donald Trump.
 
2014-04-09 01:40:13 PM  

iq_in_binary: thefatbasturd: Baz744: thefatbasturd: Gun, knife, it doesn't matter.

Gun, knife; it matters because guns have a much higher lethality rate than knives. Guns are objectively more dangerous than knives. To deny this conclusively proves you are stupid or evil.

thefatbasturd: Face it. If you are focusing all your fear and energy on whatever tool a school assailant is using, you are part of the problem.

No. People concerned about firearms safety are in no way part of the problem. Stupid or evil people who deny that guns are objectively more dangerous than nearly all other commonly used instruments of murder, however, are part of the problem.

This is doubly true because the people most likely to support compassionate, progressive mental health policy cross over heavily with the people concerned about firearms safety; while the people who support draconian or judgmental responses to assorted abnormal behaviors which may be predictive in these cases (thereby encouraging affected individuals to hide their abnormalities rather than seek support to address them) cross over heavily with the stupid and evil people who say guns are no more dangerous than pillows.

Moreover, those who support generous public funding of mental health support cross over heavily with the first group; those who believe public funding for anything other than the military and police constitutes tyranny cross over heavily with the second group.

Enhanced gun safety laws may or may not be part of the solution to the problem of mass violence in schools and public places. But those who favor them are far less likely to be part of the problem than are the stupid and evil people who maintain that guns are no more dangerous than pillows/knives/milk/a bag of walnuts.

Wall of anti-gun rhetoric, opinion about correlation between pro-mental health beliefs and pro-gun control beliefs stated as fact, and personal attacks. Yep. You are not part of the problem at ALL.

You act like there is absolutely no gun cont ...


 NFA was enacted June 26th 1934
Prohibition ended December 5th 1933

Which one do you think had more impact on ending those gang wars?
 
2014-04-09 01:40:55 PM  

The Bestest: Theaetetus: Let's be sure to focus the discussion on what type of weapon he had, rather than on his lack of psychiatric help.

I'm gonna be honest here.. yes, I agree we could use better/more comprehensive mental health initiatives, but to what end?

A national database coupled with restrictions so that the Joker isn't able to buy an M-16 the day after getting out of Arkham? Sure.
Mandatory Rorschach tests for everyone in the second grade? I have a problem with that.

It's easy to just -say- "better mental health" in response to events like this, but what exactly do you mean when you say so?


You DO know those background checks are already in place, right?
 
2014-04-09 01:41:48 PM  
jaybeezey:
We stopped locking up people that we knew were crazy, because they have rights too. The streets are full of them.

Really that's two different but related things.  We stopped calling people crazy and locking them up for convenience because they have rights, too.  We stopped locking up people we KNEW were crazy because socialism and gubmint deficits.
 
2014-04-09 01:42:10 PM  

vpb: It's almost as though you have a better chance of surviving if you aren't attacked with something that is designed specifically to kill people


ts2.mm.bing.net
Designed to kill people.

.
 
2014-04-09 01:42:16 PM  
Feinstein, get to banning Glock AR-47 tactical assault knives IMMEDIATELY!!!!!
 
2014-04-09 01:42:49 PM  
www.galleonnews.com

Sometimes, the old ways are the best.
 
2014-04-09 01:44:23 PM  

vpb: And I'll bet that most (if not all) survive.

It's almost as though you have a better chance of surviving if you aren't attacked with something that is designed specifically to kill people.


Lol, that's where you're gonna go with this eh..

Can always count on fark people to go full retard.
 
2014-04-09 01:44:29 PM  

thefatbasturd: The Bestest: Theaetetus: Let's be sure to focus the discussion on what type of weapon he had, rather than on his lack of psychiatric help.

I'm gonna be honest here.. yes, I agree we could use better/more comprehensive mental health initiatives, but to what end?

A national database coupled with restrictions so that the Joker isn't able to buy an M-16 the day after getting out of Arkham? Sure.
Mandatory Rorschach tests for everyone in the second grade? I have a problem with that.

It's easy to just -say- "better mental health" in response to events like this, but what exactly do you mean when you say so?

You DO know those background checks are already in place, right?


Reporting of mental health issues to the relevant databases is rather slapdash, in fairness.
 
2014-04-09 01:44:44 PM  

thefatbasturd: You DO know those background checks are already in place, right?


I do. I also know about loopholes, lack of enforcement and poorly pooled data.
 
2014-04-09 01:46:09 PM  

neversubmit: Callous: Damn Wolf Blitzer says some really stupid things.


He is almost as stupid as Donald Trump.


 He actually asked a doctor he was interviewing if the stab wounds to the chest were considered more serious than a stab wound "to the right hand or left hand". The doctor was on via phone and I swear he fought back laughing at him.
 
2014-04-09 01:46:59 PM  

The Bestest: thefatbasturd: You DO know those background checks are already in place, right?

I do. I also know about loopholes, lack of enforcement and poorly pooled data.


Yes. But closing up those loopholes and increasing enforcement is an assault on our freedoms because reasons and further more...
 
2014-04-09 01:47:08 PM  

Ned Stark: GnomePaladin: Ned Stark: A knife, but not so strongly that multiplying it by the probability of such an attack results in a value larger than the desire for firearms to in general be accessible to the populace.

I hope you never have to find out, but I wonder if you would feel the same way should one of your kids be shot in school.

Probabilities are great things to calculate when considering whether or not to buy a lottery ticket, some other times not so much.

Errrm, and why not exactly? Decisions should be made with an as accurate picture of the world as possible.


Because sometimes the outcome of the infinitesimally small probability is too grave to not do whatever it takes to prevent it from happening.
 
2014-04-09 01:47:49 PM  

Callous: neversubmit: Callous: Damn Wolf Blitzer says some really stupid things.


He is almost as stupid as Donald Trump.

 He actually asked a doctor he was interviewing if the stab wounds to the chest were considered more serious than a stab wound "to the right hand or left hand". The doctor was on via phone and I swear he fought back laughing at him.


whenfallsthecoliseum.com

oblig
 
2014-04-09 01:48:33 PM  

Frozboz: Kid with a knife = 20 kids with serious, but non-life threatening injuries- who may now be laced with a blood born disease that they didn't have previously and can now look forward to eventually succumbing to lifelong torture from said disease.
Kid with a gun = 20 dead kids



FTFY

Would you rather die right now, or waste away?
 
2014-04-09 01:49:20 PM  

Weatherkiss: How about instead of going after tools used for attacking other human beings, we go after the motives human beings have to want to make them want to hurt other people to begin with?

No?

Okay, carry on.


That would be too hard! It's easier to just keep nerfing the world and hope people stop hurting people as badly!
 
2014-04-09 01:50:33 PM  

Mrtraveler01: I don't think the status quo is working. Therefore I think some reforms need to be made. It would ne nice to discuss this like mature adults and try to find a middle ground everyone can be happy with. Instead we get the "gun grabber" BS.

ive given up on this issue a while ago because neither side is too mature to talk about it.


I think we've talked about this before, and we keep proposing means of minimally affecting gun owners while increasing restrictions on criminals. The problem is, they aren't politically splashy enough to be implemented.
 
2014-04-09 01:51:10 PM  
And the American Mental Health Crisis continues....
 
2014-04-09 01:51:14 PM  

tlars699: Frozboz: Kid with a knife = 20 kids with serious, but non-life threatening injuries- who may now be laced with a blood born disease that they didn't have previously and can now look forward to eventually succumbing to lifelong torture from said disease.
Kid with a gun = 20 dead kids


FTFY

Would you rather die right now, or waste away?


Congratulations!  You've won Fark's Silliest Strawman Argument award for April, 2014!  So early in the month, too.  Well played!
 
2014-04-09 01:51:25 PM  

probesport: Apatheist: Control-F, "gun"

523 mentions of "gun"

514 comments

sigh...

You added two more, then I just added two more.

/gun
//three more guns
///damnit i said gun again
////and 4


You must like guns.
 
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