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(WPXI.com)   Reports that 20 students have been hurt after multiple stabbings at Franklin Regional High School near Pittsburgh   (wpxi.com) divider line 742
    More: News, Franklin Regional High School, Pittsburgh, Westmoreland County  
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8397 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Apr 2014 at 9:57 AM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-09 11:37:22 AM

EdNortonsTwin: If the security guard was armed with a firearm, there would have likely been far fewer injured students - just one knife wielding maniac on the slab.


Also true if the security guard is armed with a taser.  And then the knife wielding maniac lives too.
 
2014-04-09 11:38:06 AM

GnomePaladin: doglover: Would you not accept as fact though that there is a higher chance of inflicting a fatal wound, both accidentally and intentionally, with a gun than with a knife?


Absolutely not. Knives are way scary.

Which is, of course, why the knife is the preferred weapon for soldiers.

Are you seriously arguing that a kid in a school with a knife is likely do to more damage than a kid in a school with a gun?  Is this real or am I being punked?


Physics, how the hell do they work?

Projectile weapons are the preferred of any warrior. In ancient times, archers did terrible damage and almost every royal who fell in Europe was struck down by arrows, because no one with a sword could reach them through their bodyguard. As time marched on guns came in to play and have advanced to the point where they are superior to the bow. Of course you do more damage at a distance than close up.

That said, the trauma from a bullet isn't somehow more deadly just because a bullet caused it. It's just trauma, and any of it is bad. And to compare a high powered rifle to a kitchen knife is disingenuous. Those rounds are designed to blow though deer and elk. You have to compare them to swords and pole weapons. A knife is more like a .22. And given the choice, I'd take the .22.
 
2014-04-09 11:38:22 AM
We're all done here.

i58.tinypic.com
 
2014-04-09 11:38:31 AM

Baz744: Enhanced gun safety laws may or may not be part of the solution to the problem of mass violence in schools and public places.



And what enhanced "gun safety" laws do you want to see passed?
 
2014-04-09 11:38:47 AM

lennavan: Also true if the security guard is armed with a taser.  And then the knife wielding maniac lives too.



But we don't need them to live, perhaps an unrealistically strong taser?
 
2014-04-09 11:38:51 AM
I know!!


Outlaw Knives!!

Problem solved!


People don't kill people, Knives kill people!!
 
2014-04-09 11:38:53 AM

Skyrmion: NightOwl2255: brokendownyota: Tell me more about how every single gunshot wound is immediately fatal.

Yet at Sandy Hook, there were next to no wounded people, they all died. A drive by spraying 9mm bullets at people 50 feet away is not the same as getting shot by a .223 in the head or chest from a few feet away.

Also, little kids have fewer hit-points.


Oh that's terrible.... ly funny.
 
2014-04-09 11:40:50 AM

gadian: BigNumber12: Kids today seem to be far more helpless and fragile than they were 15 years ago when I was in high school. What gives? Self-Esteem Parenting not working out, I guess?

Wait, how many years has it been since columbine?  About 15, right?


And it was shocking precisely because it was unheard-of at the time. It's been downhill ever since, to the point that these situations are now "ho-hum, how can I use this to score political points?" events anymore.
 
2014-04-09 11:40:58 AM
Things that I dont like I want the government to ban.
Things I do like I want the government to require.
because I love freedom.  This is why I vote democrat.
 
2014-04-09 11:41:24 AM
doglover

Projectile weapons are the preferred of any warrior.

Historically untrue. That's why knights could get slaughtered by peasants.
 
2014-04-09 11:41:29 AM
Let's be sure to focus the discussion on what type of weapon he had, rather than on his lack of psychiatric help.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-04-09 11:42:04 AM

The_Sponge: Baz744: Enhanced gun safety laws may or may not be part of the solution to the problem of mass violence in schools and public places.


And what enhanced "gun safety" laws do you want to see passed?



Let's diagram this argument out.

1) We don't know exactly the best way to write a "gun safety" law.
2) Therefore, lets not do it.

I am glad the Apollo program didn't take the same approach.
 
2014-04-09 11:42:17 AM

SurelyShirley: naughtyrev: Think about how long it would take me to reload a tank, and I'd probably need help with operating it. That's even safer. I want a government issued tank.

[i59.tinypic.com image 458x617]


Now that's my kind of tank.
 
2014-04-09 11:42:28 AM

bigsteve3OOO: Things that I dont like I want the government to ban.
Things I do like I want the government to require.
because I love freedom.  This is why I vote democrat.


Your syllable counts are off for your haiku. You need to clean that up.
 
2014-04-09 11:43:00 AM
BigNumber12:
And it was shocking precisely because it was unheard-of at the time. It's been downhill ever since, to the point that these situations are now "ho-hum, how can I use this to score political points?" events anymore.

To hell with political points, how do we solve the problems?  Problem #1:  People go on rampages.  How do we make that less frequent?  Problem #2:  Not in this case, but in many cases those people get their hands on a gun.  How can we prevent this in the future?
 
2014-04-09 11:43:41 AM

Walker: We need to ban knives!

/this is how they think in the UK

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4581871.stm


Those crazy doctors. They see many people coming in with stab wounds and want to do something about it. So they start researching the issue (and get published in the BMJ). All without any regard whatsoever for heated threads on internet fora. Stupid doctors.

Also "they" is one team from a university hospital. And this was almost a decade ago.

/don't necessarily agree with them
 
2014-04-09 11:44:04 AM

Facetious_Speciest: doglover

Projectile weapons are the preferred of any warrior.

Historically untrue. That's why knights could get slaughtered by peasants.


4.bp.blogspot.com
The peasants had projectile weapons.
 
2014-04-09 11:44:51 AM

bigsteve3OOO: Things that I dont like I want the government to ban.
Things I do like I want the government to require.
because I love freedom.  This is why I vote democrat.


Sounds like a conservative thing considering how much they want to ban abortions and gay marriage.
 
2014-04-09 11:45:00 AM
Are Pennsylvania and Colorado in some kind of twisted competition that we don't know about?
 
2014-04-09 11:45:12 AM
Theaetetus

The peasants had projectile weapons.

Kinda my point.
 
2014-04-09 11:45:42 AM

syrynxx: I'd say something funny but there's nothing funny about 20 people being stabbed.


Please return your Fark card immediately, it has been revoked.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-04-09 11:45:49 AM

Theaetetus: Facetious_Speciest: doglover

Projectile weapons are the preferred of any warrior.

Historically untrue. That's why knights could get slaughtered by peasants.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x442]
The peasants had projectile weapons.


They were also in an anarcho-syndicalist commune, so helps.

//there is violence inherent in that system.
 
2014-04-09 11:48:03 AM

Pincy: syrynxx: I'd say something funny but there's nothing funny about 20 people being stabbed.

Please return your Fark card immediately, it has been revoked.


Just thankful no one died.
 
2014-04-09 11:48:37 AM
Alright, I'm calling a moratorium on the "let's ban assault ____" jokes on this thread. It stopped being funny 7 3/4 pages ago.
 
2014-04-09 11:49:42 AM

Theaetetus: Let's be sure to focus the discussion on what type of weapon he had, rather than on his lack of psychiatric help.


I'm gonna be honest here.. yes, I agree we could use better/more comprehensive mental health initiatives, but to what end?

A national database coupled with restrictions so that the Joker isn't able to buy an M-16 the day after getting out of Arkham? Sure.
Mandatory Rorschach tests for everyone in the second grade? I have a problem with that.

It's easy to just -say- "better mental health" in response to events like this, but what exactly do you mean when you say so?
 
2014-04-09 11:49:45 AM

Mrtraveler01: I don't think a ban is effective either. But I do wonder if there are ways to limit who can buy a gun to help keep the crazies away from them.


Attempts to weed out people with mental health issues run afoul of privacy laws, the inconsistency of diagnoses and the fact that people with mental illnesses are often undiagnosed and untreated. This is why we, as a society, prefer to focus our anger on inanimate objects that are easier to identify and control so we can feel better about ourselves, even if we are not any more safe.
 
2014-04-09 11:50:24 AM
Chris Ween:

img.fark.net


Now this is an assault knife.


Never has the ability to break your own wrist looked so badass.
 
2014-04-09 11:50:33 AM

Facetious_Speciest: Theaetetus

The peasants had projectile weapons.

Kinda my point.


Yes, but the preferred weapon of knights was peasants.
 
2014-04-09 11:51:13 AM

AngryPanda: Alright, I'm calling a moratorium on the "let's ban assault ____" jokes on this thread. It stopped being funny 7 3/4 pages ago.


"let's ban assaults on free speech"
 
2014-04-09 11:51:13 AM

Johnny Texas: ikanreed: You have to know that guns are better oriented for killing, so why do you pretend?

I never said that they weren't but it's a bit ridiculous to say that 20 shot people = 20 dead people.   The dude at Fort Hood was a trained soldier and only killed 3 people with 35 shots fired.


Let's check the stats for the Newtown shooting...
 
2014-04-09 11:51:16 AM

wambu: Mrtraveler01: I don't think a ban is effective either. But I do wonder if there are ways to limit who can buy a gun to help keep the crazies away from them.

Attempts to weed out people with mental health issues run afoul of privacy laws, the inconsistency of diagnoses and the fact that people with mental illnesses are often undiagnosed and untreated. This is why we, as a society, prefer to focus our anger on inanimate objects that are easier to identify and control so we can feel better about ourselves, even if we are not any more safe.


So lets do nothing then.
 
2014-04-09 11:53:22 AM

d23: They were also in an anarcho-syndicalist commune, so helps.

//there is violence inherent in that system.


I thought we were autonomous collective, but I was fooling myself.
 
2014-04-09 11:53:27 AM

BigNumber12: gadian: BigNumber12: Kids today seem to be far more helpless and fragile than they were 15 years ago when I was in high school. What gives? Self-Esteem Parenting not working out, I guess?

Wait, how many years has it been since columbine?  About 15, right?

And it was shocking precisely because it was unheard-of at the time. It's been downhill ever since, to the point that these situations are now "ho-hum, how can I use this to score political points?" events anymore.


What else is there to talk about? You can't talk about how we are a society that worships violence, or that we are a society that worships guns AND violence. People don't want to admit that. Easier to just talk the politics.
 
2014-04-09 11:53:55 AM

mediablitz: Johnny Texas: ikanreed: You have to know that guns are better oriented for killing, so why do you pretend?

I never said that they weren't but it's a bit ridiculous to say that 20 shot people = 20 dead people.   The dude at Fort Hood was a trained soldier and only killed 3 people with 35 shots fired.

Let's check the stats for the Newtown shooting...


Gunshot wounds have an 80-90% survivability rate with proper attention.
 
2014-04-09 11:54:42 AM
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-09 11:55:11 AM
doglover

Yes, but the preferred weapon of knights was peasants.

Lol. An excellent point.
 
2014-04-09 11:56:16 AM

AngryPanda: Alright, I'm calling a moratorium on the "let's ban assault ____" jokes on this thread. It stopped being funny 7 3/4 pages ago.


I think you just don't understand how hilarious it is
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-04-09 11:56:30 AM

gerrymander: [img.fark.net image 538x380]


This just came on the screen at some little high school somewhere... and at that somewhere the kid that viewed it is getting 9 months suspension because of the brand new "zero tolerance" policy that the egghead administrator just came up with.
 
2014-04-09 11:56:33 AM

mediablitz: BigNumber12: gadian: BigNumber12: Kids today seem to be far more helpless and fragile than they were 15 years ago when I was in high school. What gives? Self-Esteem Parenting not working out, I guess?

Wait, how many years has it been since columbine?  About 15, right?

And it was shocking precisely because it was unheard-of at the time. It's been downhill ever since, to the point that these situations are now "ho-hum, how can I use this to score political points?" events anymore.

What else is there to talk about? You can't talk about how we are a society that worships violence, or that we are a society that worships guns AND violence. People don't want to admit that. Easier to just talk the politics.


Its a culture thing.

/wink wink nudge nudge
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-04-09 11:57:25 AM

Mrtraveler01: mediablitz: BigNumber12: gadian: BigNumber12: Kids today seem to be far more helpless and fragile than they were 15 years ago when I was in high school. What gives? Self-Esteem Parenting not working out, I guess?

Wait, how many years has it been since columbine?  About 15, right?

And it was shocking precisely because it was unheard-of at the time. It's been downhill ever since, to the point that these situations are now "ho-hum, how can I use this to score political points?" events anymore.

What else is there to talk about? You can't talk about how we are a society that worships violence, or that we are a society that worships guns AND violence. People don't want to admit that. Easier to just talk the politics.

Its a culture thing.

/wink wink nudge nudge


I like sex, but it's banned from TV.
 
2014-04-09 12:00:03 PM

Facetious_Speciest: doglover

Yes, but the preferred weapon of knights was peasants.

Lol. An excellent point.


Kind of like drones, but less expensive.
 
2014-04-09 12:00:48 PM
Hurry, lets ban some shiat!
 
2014-04-09 12:01:03 PM

Kit Fister: mediablitz: Johnny Texas: ikanreed: You have to know that guns are better oriented for killing, so why do you pretend?

I never said that they weren't but it's a bit ridiculous to say that 20 shot people = 20 dead people.   The dude at Fort Hood was a trained soldier and only killed 3 people with 35 shots fired.

Let's check the stats for the Newtown shooting...

Gunshot wounds have an 80-90% survivability rate with proper attention.


That's like giving the survival rate for cancer. Without breaking it down, caliber of bullet, distance to target, accidental vs intentional shooting it's disingenuous.
 
2014-04-09 12:01:30 PM

wambu: Mrtraveler01: I don't think a ban is effective either. But I do wonder if there are ways to limit who can buy a gun to help keep the crazies away from them.

Attempts to weed out people with mental health issues run afoul of privacy laws, the inconsistency of diagnoses and the fact that people with mental illnesses are often undiagnosed and untreated. This is why we, as a society, prefer to focus our anger on inanimate objects that are easier to identify and control so we can feel better about ourselves, even if we are not any more safe.


I don't look at it that way at all. It's not about "focusing anger", but yes, it IS about controlling that which is easier to control, and I don't really see a compelling argument that it doesn't make us "not any more safe"

Gun laws will never be "perfect" but I like to believe there's an option somewhere between the Wild West and totalitarian bans that's at least somewhat effective (as in better than doing nothing) in reducing catastrophes.

The problem (as has been pointed out in just about ever Fark thread) is the (quite frankly fascinating) polarization; the rational voices get drowned out by the hypervocal "cold dead hands" and "ban all the things" crowd, both in discussion and legislation.
 
2014-04-09 12:02:27 PM

Theaetetus: Facetious_Speciest: doglover

Projectile weapons are the preferred of any warrior.

Historically untrue. That's why knights could get slaughtered by peasants.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x442]
The peasants had projectile weapons.


Those aren't peasants. Those are highly trained bowmen. Easier to replace than Knights, but still not cheap.
 
2014-04-09 12:02:51 PM

Nix Nightbird: Magorn: Hey *I* am not an "Originalist" but a "Living Constitution" guy.   Its the Conservatives who espouse originialism and as Articulated by Nino Scalia, that means that every word in the Constitution means exactly, no more or less, what it meant in 1789 when the Constitution was written.  Thus, as was Argued in  Bowers v. Hardwick, the 14th amendment's right to privacy could NOT mean that it protected against criminalizing the conduct of two consenting adults behind closed doors, since when the 14th amendment was written, sodomy was illegal in nearly every state in the Union.

Apply that logic to the 2nd and you get Flintlocks and Cannon, no more no less.   And yes that would preclude television and radio from the 1st amendment as well but not the internet since this is also the printed word which existed in 1789.

I would have zero problems with everyone being armed with flintlocks, muzzle-loaders, and other black powder weapons common in 1789. That would be fine. People could still hunt and protect their homestead, but they'd have a really hard time blasting 50 people in 20 seconds, unless they brought a LOT of guns to their massacre.


The 1st amendment would also be restricted to the words which were in use during that time using your logic.  We would all sound old-timey and that's not cool.
 
2014-04-09 12:02:54 PM

doglover: The Bestest: doglover: Belias: I don't think it can reasonably be argued that a knife is as deadly as a gun.

At least you admit it's just a feeling.

Knives and guns are both deadly.

Would you not accept as fact though that there is a higher chance of inflicting a fatal wound, both accidentally and intentionally, with a gun than with a knife?

Absolutely not. Knives are way scary. Also there's guns and then there's guns. There's knives and there's knives.

A 6" knife is like a .22 revolver or very powerful pellet gun. A deer rifle is more akin to a glaive.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 517x527]

You wanna tell me a .306 round does more or less tissue damage than a naginata? I think it's academic at that point.


www.awesomeoff.com
What a MANS Glaive might look like.
 
2014-04-09 12:04:23 PM
Makes perfect sense!

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-09 12:04:26 PM

lennavan: EdNortonsTwin: If the security guard was armed with a firearm, there would have likely been far fewer injured students - just one knife wielding maniac on the slab.

Also true if the security guard is armed with a taser.  And then the knife wielding maniac lives too.


You say that like it's a good thing.
 
2014-04-09 12:04:33 PM

Ontos: Hurry, lets ban some shiat!


I'm trying!!! I've attached a bill to ban peanuts in schools but some @$$hole beat me to it!!!
 
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