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(BBC-US)   The Dutch government still has 40,000 computers running Windows XP. In other news, the Dutch government has 40,000 computers   (bbc.com) divider line 38
    More: Weird, Windows XP, Windows, Microsoft, Dutch, bug fixes, cyber, data management, XP users  
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432 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Apr 2014 at 3:55 PM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2014-04-08 02:16:22 PM
If they had some guidance earlier on they could have steered clear of this flood.

It's too bad there isn't a metaphor for something that provides guidance or steering that would apply to the Dutch.  And one for taking a small preventative action in time to prevent a major failure.
 
2014-04-08 02:20:36 PM
Perhaps Microsoft should've helped them with the upgrades, taking them by the hand, and helping steer them until they finished.
 
2014-04-08 03:53:32 PM
Well that Dutc---

vpb: If they had some guidance earlier on they could have steered clear of this flood.

It's too bad there isn't a metaphor for something that provides guidance or steering that would apply to the Dutch.  And one for taking a small preventative action in time to prevent a major failure.


Goddammit.
 
2014-04-08 04:02:50 PM
There's no real excuse for anyone to still be running XP.

It's 13 years old.  MS has released THREE whole generations of OS (Vista, 7, and 8) in the intervening time.  They announced the XP end-of-support date years and years ago.  This can't possibly be catching anyone by surprise, and if it does, they are an idiot.

I don't care if they have special software or hardware that runs on XP.  You've had more than five years now to know that the end was coming and to find an alternative solution.
 
2014-04-08 04:08:25 PM
Dumb f*cks.

Gill Bates will be happy to lend a helping hand.............for a small fee, of course.


do like Munich, Germany and so many other governments. switch to Linux and save a sh*tload of money and have stabler/more secure systems.
 
2014-04-08 04:09:15 PM

Doc Daneeka: There's no real excuse for anyone to still be running XP.

It's 13 years old.  MS has released THREE whole generations of OS (Vista, 7, and 8) in the intervening time.  They announced the XP end-of-support date years and years ago.  This can't possibly be catching anyone by surprise, and if it does, they are an idiot.

I don't care if they have special software or hardware that runs on XP.  You've had more than five years now to know that the end was coming and to find an alternative solution.



Vista #1!!   install veesta!   liva la veesta!!
 
2014-04-08 04:09:53 PM

Doc Daneeka: I don't care if they have special software or hardware that runs on XP.  You've had more than five years now to know that the end was coming and to find an alternative solution.


As someone who works with hardware and software refreshing for a multinational company this is not surprising.  Many internal organizations for average-large-company run hardware that is not only end of life, but stuff that was not manufactured in this decade or even this century, and we're not just talking mainframes.
 
2014-04-08 04:10:49 PM
I wonder if they will just throw a blanket over the issue as it starts to stink.
 
2014-04-08 04:11:12 PM

naughtyrev: Perhaps Microsoft should've helped them with the upgrades, taking them by the hand, and helping steer them until they've finished had their bank accounts cleaned out gill bates.



good advice.   if you own microsoft stock anyway.
 
2014-04-08 04:12:39 PM
That's why I am justifying our xp upgrades by screaming Hippa violations really loudly.
 
2014-04-08 04:24:48 PM

Doc Daneeka: There's no real excuse for anyone to still be running XP.

It's 13 years old.  ...

I don't care if they have special software or hardware that runs on XP.  You've had more than five years now to know that the end was coming and to find an alternative solution.


I don't understand why.  What do they need a solution to?  What is the specific problem that needs addressing?  You might be creating a problem where there is none.  I have a digital video camera for a microscope that runs on Mac OS9 which is 15 years old and has been unsupported for 12 years.  The camera works great.  So I could either update the OS, which would require updating the computer hardware (it's running on a powerbook G3 bronze), which would then require updating the software running the camera, which of course would require a new camera... or I could just use it as is.

You need a reason to upgrade and "it's out of date" isn't a reason.
 
2014-04-08 04:36:59 PM

Doc Daneeka: I don't care if they have special software or hardware that runs on XP. You've had more than five years now to know that the end was coming and to find an alternative solution.


Would that alternate solution integrate seamlessly into their current systems?
Would that alternate solution cause any downtime due to employee training or IT noodling?
Would that alternate solution work with all of their current software, without upgrades, patches or tech support?
Would that alternate solution work on all the hardware they have right now, without added drivers or patches?

Would that alternate solution cost money?

Any one of these questions answered "yes" would be enough. Businesses, if they can, only want to buy anything only once. From computers to paper clips, only once. This isn't BillyBob on the family PC... they're already using windows 7.
 
2014-04-08 04:37:02 PM

dentalhilljack: Doc Daneeka: I don't care if they have special software or hardware that runs on XP.  You've had more than five years now to know that the end was coming and to find an alternative solution.

As someone who works with hardware and software refreshing for a multinational company this is not surprising.  Many internal organizations for average-large-company run hardware that is not only end of life, but stuff that was not manufactured in this decade or even this century, and we're not just talking mainframes.


Not speaking for all companies, of course, (or even generally speaking) but running legacy hardware is a major obstacle to upgrading away from XP. You can have all the warning in the world, and you still may not be given the capital required to replace old hardware because it just costs too damn much. It's not an issue of spending $100 for a new windows 7 enterprise license; it's an issue of trying to justify your parent company spending $500K+ for a new industrial cat scan machine even though the old one works perfectly fine. If you're "lucky", and on a service contract, then maybe the manufacturer will swap out necessary hardware for you and create drivers for running old hardware on newer machines; but even then it often runs many tens of thousands of dollars. God help you if you have a lot of specialty hardware.

Planned obsolescence is usually a good thing, but sometimes there's not much you can do other than pull the machine off the network and wait for capital approval to go through. Eventually.
 
2014-04-08 05:00:44 PM
Uhm, if MS is going to continue to create patches/updates for organizations that pay a fee how difficult would it be for any other computer running XP to also receive those updates?

They just said that they would still be updating XP, so support isn't ending. They just won't publicly release those fixes.
 
2014-04-08 05:03:36 PM

lennavan: I don't understand why.  What do they need a solution to?  What is the specific problem that needs addressing?  You might be creating a problem where there is none....

You need a reason to upgrade and "it's out of date" isn't a reason.


Protection from getting hacked. That's a pretty damn good reason in my book. Anything nowadays that is connected to the internet but left unpatched for any length of time is going to be more vulnerable to exploits. Not that newer hardware is always better, but at least it is being defended against the latest threats.
 
2014-04-08 05:08:17 PM
my office is paying $2M for support :( :( :(

It's tearing me up inside!!!
 
2014-04-08 05:16:32 PM

Doc Daneeka: There's no real excuse for anyone to still be running XP.

It's 13 years old.  MS has released THREE whole generations of OS (Vista, 7, and 8) in the intervening time.  They announced the XP end-of-support date years and years ago.  This can't possibly be catching anyone by surprise, and if it does, they are an idiot.

I don't care if they have special software or hardware that runs on XP.  You've had more than five years now to know that the end was coming and to find an alternative solution.


When you are a private school, Catholic, the money is not there.  And many of my machines should have Vista on them but got XP instead due to Vista sucking so badly.  They actually have the Vista key label on them but have XP.  This was before I worked there.  I do have some spare 7 Pro licenses just not enough to cover my District Wide XP count.  Student computers with no admin access.  I know shiat still can get to them.
 
2014-04-08 05:52:50 PM

Flt209er: Planned obsolescence is usually a good thing


I'd challenge you on that. We need more things built to last, not less. There's way too much crappy shiat out there that you have to completely toss if anything, even minor things go wrong. It's a tremendous waste of materials and money. But hey, as long as the slag heaps are in India and you don't have to worry about them...
 
2014-04-08 05:59:45 PM

Linux_Yes: naughtyrev: Perhaps Microsoft should've helped them with the upgrades, taking them by the hand, and helping steer them until they've finished had their bank accounts cleaned out gill bates.


good advice.   if you own microsoft stock anyway.


Or perhaps I was alluding to the Dutch Rudder. :)
 
2014-04-08 06:25:54 PM

cptjeff: Flt209er: Planned obsolescence is usually a good thing

I'd challenge you on that. We need more things built to last, not less. There's way too much crappy shiat out there that you have to completely toss if anything, even minor things go wrong. It's a tremendous waste of materials and money. But hey, as long as the slag heaps are in India and you don't have to worry about them...


Building things to last is only a good idea for some things. Computer technology is fairly new and constantly changing. Something like an operating system can't be maintained effectively against such rapid changes.
 
2014-04-08 06:35:07 PM

naughtyrev: Linux_Yes: naughtyrev: Perhaps Microsoft should've helped them with the upgrades, taking them by the hand, and helping steer them until they've finished had their bank accounts cleaned out gill bates.


good advice.   if you own microsoft stock anyway.

Or perhaps I was alluding to the Dutch Rudder. :)



certainly more fun than a Dutch Oven.
 
2014-04-08 06:43:24 PM
Then there's just plain laziness. Oh the board loves spending hundreds of thousands a year getting the newest phones and tablets....but to spend that to upgrade the rank and file so the systems work? Oh noooo we can't do that!
 
2014-04-08 07:07:22 PM

Tobin_Lam: cptjeff: Flt209er: Planned obsolescence is usually a good thing

I'd challenge you on that. We need more things built to last, not less. There's way too much crappy shiat out there that you have to completely toss if anything, even minor things go wrong. It's a tremendous waste of materials and money. But hey, as long as the slag heaps are in India and you don't have to worry about them...

Building things to last is only a good idea for some things. Computer technology is fairly new and constantly changing. Something like an operating system can't be maintained effectively against such rapid changes.


The changes are not nearly as dramatic as they used to be, that's the point. An old computer running XP can still handle the vast majority of the stuff you throw at it these days. That's the reason this is a big deal while support ceasing for older OSes wasn't- back then, there was just no way in hell you could use a computer for 10 years and still expect to handle modern tasks. You just wouldn't be able to keep up on either the hardware or software fronts. Now? There simply isn't enough benefit to upgrading constantly any more, so people don't do it. In many cases, there are large costs to doing so. For example, do you want to buy me a new printer? The scanner on mine won't work on 7, and I do use that on occasion. Do you want to force every medical lab to buy new equipment running into the millions of dollars?

As this technology gets more and more integrated into our lives and more and more infrastructure is built on it, planned obsolescence gets to be a very expensive proposition. And when the old stuff still does the job, it is entirely pointless. As shocking as it might be to you, there are things in life that require long term stability, and more and more of those involve computers.
 
2014-04-08 07:31:12 PM

madgonad: Uhm, if MS is going to continue to create patches/updates for organizations that pay a fee how difficult would it be for any other computer running XP to also receive those updates?

They just said that they would still be updating XP, so support isn't ending. They just won't publicly release those fixes.


From a purely technical stand point:  Not difficult at all, in fact it'd work without any changes at all.  From a logistical stand point:  Freeloaders are not appreciated in the corporate world, go use linux somewhere else.  Bill Gates didn't make all that money giving away free stuff with no strings attached.

/I am cheering the death of XP, finally, finally app & game developers can start to focus on the 64bit platform without having to contend with the outdated shiat-box demographic.
 
2014-04-08 08:44:49 PM

cptjeff: Flt209er: Planned obsolescence is usually a good thing

....But hey, as long as the slag heaps are in India and you don't have to worry about them...


Read a depressing article the other day about the growing slag heaps of windows XP install discs that have been appearing in India over the last couple of years. Children roaming the streets covered head to toe in service packs; 1s and 0s leaking into the water table and polluting the Ganges. Terrible stuff.

Look, I'm all for keeping old hardware running, but let's not pretend that dropping support for a 13 year old OS is going to cause heavy metal poisoning in some third world contry. The reason people are in this situation is precisely because they've been able to keep the older stuff working. As for planned obsolesence in general, I think you've got the wrong idea about it. Microsoft is dropping support for some versions of XP, not dropping support for everything older than windows 8.1.  It's an end-of-life strategy, not someone telling you upgrade simply because there's something newer and faster out there. It's someone saying, "hey, we've only got enough spare parts in stores to support that device for 3 more years. Be careful, because eventually the last spare part WILL break." And be especially careful if you're working in a medical lab like the one you mentioned. Keeping everything around indefinitely only creates panic and downtime when something unfixable breaks. (Although in all fairness, the corporate environment often responds much "better" to panic and downtime than future risk mitigation).

Believe me, I completely understand (and share) the desire to keep functional hardware in use. Hell, I'm still running a 2000 power mac G4 as my primary computer because it does everything I need it to do. (And, as I've been finding out to my own amusement, it doesn't do what I don't want it to do). But the thing is, I don't need a plan for this machine. When it eventually dies, I'll get a new computer. No panic, no appreciable down time. I'll just bite the bullet and write a check, get my data back, and it's smooth sailing. Likewise, if you can keep your printer and scanner working, go for it. Same thing though, when your stuff breaks, you'll probably just replace it. You and I don't have irreplaceable equipment, or a patient who needs that MRI done within 2 hours so they can operate before brain damage becomes permanent. But if you have 1000 computers that need upgrading, or one computer that will end up costing more than those other 1000 combined, you better get started early.
 
2014-04-08 09:01:42 PM

cptjeff: Tobin_Lam: cptjeff: Flt209er: Planned obsolescence is usually a good thing

I'd challenge you on that. We need more things built to last, not less. There's way too much crappy shiat out there that you have to completely toss if anything, even minor things go wrong. It's a tremendous waste of materials and money. But hey, as long as the slag heaps are in India and you don't have to worry about them...

Building things to last is only a good idea for some things. Computer technology is fairly new and constantly changing. Something like an operating system can't be maintained effectively against such rapid changes.

The changes are not nearly as dramatic as they used to be, that's the point. An old computer running XP can still handle the vast majority of the stuff you throw at it these days. That's the reason this is a big deal while support ceasing for older OSes wasn't- back then, there was just no way in hell you could use a computer for 10 years and still expect to handle modern tasks. You just wouldn't be able to keep up on either the hardware or software fronts. Now? There simply isn't enough benefit to upgrading constantly any more, so people don't do it. In many cases, there are large costs to doing so. For example, do you want to buy me a new printer? The scanner on mine won't work on 7, and I do use that on occasion. Do you want to force every medical lab to buy new equipment running into the millions of dollars?

As this technology gets more and more integrated into our lives and more and more infrastructure is built on it, planned obsolescence gets to be a very expensive proposition. And when the old stuff still does the job, it is entirely pointless. As shocking as it might be to you, there are things in life that require long term stability, and more and more of those involve computers.


The problem is, your stuff continues to function normally but someone else has snuck in and is watching you and using your stuff to hurt others. Just because your old XP box looks like it is just fine doesn't mean it actually is. You want to see changes? Check out the Internet Of Things. It is no longer computers on botnets. Your phone, TV, refrigerator, and washing machine are all executing DOS attacks and mining Bitcoins side by side. The reason planned obselesence is a good idea in some cases is it keeps a company from having to maintain something too long. How long is long enough? It isn't hard to figure out. Microsoft has been generous to let XP live on even though it has been succeeded time and time again. Do your really expect a recall of 1999 F-150 pickups to fix a flaw? XP is inherently insecure and should have been dropped in favor of better OSs like Windows 7.
 
2014-04-08 09:12:43 PM

Flt209er: "hey, we've only got enough spare parts in stores to support that device for 3 more years. Be careful, because eventually the last spare part WILL break." And be especially careful if you're working in a medical lab like the one you mentioned. Keeping everything around indefinitely only creates panic and downtime when something unfixable breaks.


Well built stuff doesn't break constantly. That's kinda my point. Planned obsolescence is building shiat cheaply so that you're forced to replace it on a regular basis. When you have really expensive custom built equipment that is made to last decades with minimal repairs, using up the last spare part isn't generally an issue. Not being able to use that piece of equipment when it's in perfect working order because somebody decided that you wouldn't be able to use the underlying software anymore for no good reason, it's a problem.

Something being a decade old does not make it worthless or bad.

Flt209er: But if you have 1000 computers that need upgrading, or one computer that will end up costing more than those other 1000 combined, you better get started early.


My point is that when you have stuff that's designed to last for a long time, you should be able to have a stable platform to build it on. Why the fark should I replace my piece of highly specialized equipment on your schedule? Why can't I build something to last 50 years? We can build stuff that lasts that long. It's not that hard, but you're saying that I should plan to replace equipment designed and built to last a century every 15 years because you think it's good to just force everybody to replace everything on some arbitrary timescale.

Flt209er: Likewise, if you can keep your printer and scanner working, go for it. Same thing though, when your stuff breaks, you'll probably just replace it.


The problem here is that I wouldn't be throwing stuff out when it breaks. The problem is that I'd be forced to throw stuff out before well it breaks. I like to fix things when they break, but I'll replace them if I have to. But this isn't that. This is somebody coming to my house with a baseball bat and breaking my scanner and then telling me to just buy a new one because fark you, it was old anyway. Which isn't such a disaster when it's my scanner, but when it's expensive lab equipment like a guy in the other thread has, or expensive medical equipment, it's a big issue.

We are entirely capable of building mechanical equipment to last. We are at a point where we really need to start thinking about how to do the same with software.
 
2014-04-08 09:29:52 PM

Tobin_Lam: Just because your old XP box looks like it is just fine doesn't mean it actually is.


Right now it's fine. There are ways to keep a machine clean, and I do. Yes, threats evolve. So does antivirus software. That may change as it loses support, but if you don't think you can keep XP running safely right now you're a moron.

Tobin_Lam: Check out the Internet Of Things.


The internet of things is what I'm worried about. We're talking sewer plants, not just refrigerators. Expensive infrastructure, and the code that runs it has to be built on something. You can spend a lot of money to build a custom platform, but if you're like most people, you build it on existing software architecture. A windows OS, for example. Now they yank that out from under you. So you either have to spend a shiatload of money to develop all new software, or you lose the ability to use the system entirely. As the technology has matured, we need to provide a stable platform for this kind of infrastructure to run on. Think about how long IE6 lasted- you know why that happened? A metric arseload of custom business applications were built on top of it. Move past IE6, and everything breaks and costs you a zillion bucks. That's what we're dealing with when it comes to XP, except unlike most of those, we're talking about home users and a shiatload more hardware. Because the costs of transitioning are so high, quite a few people won't do it. And as XP gets less and less secure as time goes by, that has costs to everyone else. But the people who aren't upgrading don't care, it costs them too much to do anything else. So what do you do?

Tobin_Lam: . The reason planned obselesence is a good idea in some cases is it keeps a company from having to maintain something too long.


That doesn't help anyone but the company's bottom line. It's a good idea for MS, because they're not forced to bear the massive costs they're imposing on everyone else. So good for them? Yes, the incentive structure makes it a good idea for them. Is it a good thing for the system and society as a whole? Fark no.

Planned obsolescence is a profitable thing for Microsoft. But it is not a good thing.
 
2014-04-08 10:42:44 PM

cptjeff: Right now it's fine. There are ways to keep a machine clean, and I do. Yes, threats evolve. So does antivirus software. That may change as it loses support, but if you don't think you can keep XP running safely right now you're a moron.


There are fundamental flaws in the structure of XP. Not every flaw that has been found is fixed. There are flaws yet to be discovered. You can't fix that with antivirus software. It can't keep up. Hackers all over the world are breaking out their lists of unpatched flaws and the ones that actually planned ahead are already spamming the world with multitudes of emails, websites, and scanners to exploit those flaws. You don't spend forever fixing flawed systems. You build them, use them for a while, and then build better ones. There are situations where XP will continue to be safe but there are far fewer situations now than before.

We're talking sewer plants, not just refrigerators. Expensive infrastructure, and the code that runs it has to be built on something.

No, no, no. That stuff is a big target but it hidden very well, too. As far as the Internet is concerned, that stuff shouldn't exist. Just because the underlying software is no longer supported doesn't mean it no longer works. XP will continue to be fine for systems that don't face the internet. Just don't plug it into the internet and expect it to continue to be fine. My TV hasn't received a software update in months. For all I know, someone could be using it in a botnet for any number of purposes. That is practically assured if you have an XP box connected to the internet right now.

All OS's are fundamentally flawed. XP is old and has a multitude flaws and has been replaced and its replacements replaced. Continuing to use it is unsafe. You might as well be in a 1959 Bel Air. It will get you where you want to go, just not safely.
 
2014-04-08 10:56:17 PM
So the new OS's are free if you have XP?

All you people saying "there is no reason to be on XP" are obviously not the ones paying for the upgrades.  You have a system, it works for what you need in your business, you have no need to upgrade, at all, and now its "hey yea about that, here's a bill".  Just about everything a government or office out there does, thats not a tech type of firm, can do it all on XP.

And this of course doesn't count the cost of installing drivers, having potential hardware issues etc.  This was less an issue in the past because the computers could do so much more year after year, that did effect business, that upgrading came with new hardware.  We are at a point where the average place just doesn't need anything more.
 
2014-04-08 11:33:57 PM

cptjeff: Well built stuff doesn't break constantly.


No, it doesn't. It breaks unexpectedly. When you have critical hardware under your command, unexpected failures are much, much worse.

 

cptjeff: Planned obsolescence is building shiat cheaply so that you're forced to replace it on a regular basis.


No, it's not; no matter how much you'd like to change the definition.  What you describe, though it exists, is simply greed. Though if you buy cheap crap or shiney objects in the first place, that's entirely your fault. Sticking a time bomb on your hardware or software is one thing; extrapolating the state of the art in 5-10 years and adjusting your product line accordingly is different. You have old stuff? Keep your install discs around and there's no reason you can't use your software to your hearts content until the hardware breaks.

cptjeff: My point is that when you have stuff that's designed to last for a long time, you should be able to have a stable platform to build it on. Why the fark should I replace my piece of highly specialized equipment on your schedule? Why can't I build something to last 50 years? We can build stuff that lasts that long. It's not that hard, but you're saying that I should plan to replace equipment designed and built to last a century every 15 years because you think it's good to just force everybody to replace everything on some arbitrary timescale.


It's not hard? Replace equipment built to last a century? And here I thought you were being forced to buy cheap crap that you have to replace regularly. You just got done telling that other guy that there's little you can do on your computer that you couldn't do 10 years ago; unless you're posting on an altair 8800, why are you even bringing up half-century+ time scales?

cptjeff: The problem here is that I wouldn't be throwing stuff out when it breaks. The problem is that I'd be forced to throw stuff out before well it breaks. I like to fix things when they break, but I'll replace them if I have to.


Is the garbage man breaking into your house and stealing your scanner? Who, then, is forcing you to do anything?

And why can't you fix everything? Likely because you can't find spare parts? See, the thing is, no one's forcing you to upgrade to anyone's schedule. You're making this way too personal. We both know that no one's going to kick your door down and Office Space your scanner into oblivion. Fix your scanner, upgrade it,  do nothing. No one else cares. But what no one wants to do is sell you spare parts on YOUR schedule 15 years down the line. And then the next guys schedule, and the next guys, and the guy after that, and so on. And why should they? Why should your scanner manufacturer cater to YOU personally? Scanner drivers don't work with 64 bit? Well, get windows 7 32 bit. Or do nothing. Just don't expect them to pay someone to create an update to ancient drivers when they'd rather pay someone to create newer drivers for a better system. What will you do if the controller card burns out? Should the company that manufactured the controller cards restart that line just so you can have one more card? And what if it's just once of the ICs on the card that burned, and that IC's been discontinued in favor of something better? Should they do a new lot run just for you? What if that IC design has been lost because the IC manufacturer has gone out of business? Should they pay to start up a wafer fab just for so they can produce one more IC? Oh, and I hope that IC's not attached with leaded solder; some places aren't allowed to use or work with that anymore. Should we change the laws back for you?

No. What happens is that if any link in that chain breaks, it forces a redesign; and if you're going to redesign something, you might as well make it better. You can wait for it to happen spontaneously, or you can announce it and give everyone else on the planet time (years!) to adapt. I know which option I prefer, even though I do like to keep old stuff around. As little as any company on this planet cares if you or I upgrade on their schedule, they care about your or my schedule even less. Upgrade. Don't upgrade. Keep windows XP. Hell, one of my boxes still runs win2k. No one's preventing you from doing anything. I completely understand your frustration with the lack of support for old stuff, but that's a far cry from someone holding the proverbial gun to your head and forcing you to buy the latest and greatest. A lot people buy new stuff completely by choice, and if you go far enough back in time, it's just not worth it to keep you or me around.

And yeah, it still sucks for the really specialized stuff, but that was the whole point of my first (filter-breaking-phrase) post.
 
2014-04-08 11:36:53 PM
If I know the Dutch, and I'm not saying that I necessarily do, they are probably doing this to make a point of some kind. I'm sure it was not an accident or oversight.
 
2014-04-08 11:40:12 PM

Pocket_Fisherman: So the new OS's are free if you have XP?

All you people saying "there is no reason to be on XP" are obviously not the ones paying for the upgrades.  You have a system, it works for what you need in your business, you have no need to upgrade, at all, and now its "hey yea about that, here's a bill".  Just about everything a government or office out there does, thats not a tech type of firm, can do it all on XP.

And this of course doesn't count the cost of installing drivers, having potential hardware issues etc.  This was less an issue in the past because the computers could do so much more year after year, that did effect business, that upgrading came with new hardware.  We are at a point where the average place just doesn't need anything more.


I would say "Look at my link right above your post" but the link seems to have disappeared. It is a 1959 Bel Air vs a 2009 Malibu crash test. They both get you where you want to go, however, you're far less likely to die in the Malibu. XP is not safe. Years ago, people were getting hacked on their freshly installed XP systems before they could even install all the patches.
 
2014-04-09 05:12:16 AM

Linux_Yes: naughtyrev: Linux_Yes: naughtyrev: Perhaps Microsoft should've helped them with the upgrades, taking them by the hand, and helping steer them until they've finished had their bank accounts cleaned out gill bates.

good advice.   if you own microsoft stock anyway.

Or perhaps I was alluding to the Dutch Rudder. :)

certainly more fun than a Dutch Oven.


There's not enough Dutch courage in all the world to get me to even consider volunteering for either of those.
 
2014-04-09 07:29:38 AM
Why so surprised by that, subby? The Netherlands is not a small place.
 
2014-04-09 07:50:48 AM
I went to my local car dealer and they searched for a part for me and I noticed that their `internet machine` was running XP.

There will be a lot of that. `it still works mate, I`m not spending money on something so it will not work any better`

They really have no idea about network safety and never will.
 
2014-04-09 08:02:39 AM

Doc Daneeka: There's no real excuse for anyone to still be running XP.


A company has a 5 - 6 year life cycle. 4.5 years ago they brought new machines and had a choice of Vista or XP.  They went with XP.  Those machines are not being replaced or upgraded, they work just fine and the accountants will not authorise the expenditure.

Of course if you were to donate the require amount of funds to each and every company in this exact same position it would negate the problem with the bean counters.  I don't see you reaching for your cheque book to make those generous donations though.
 
2014-04-09 08:27:59 AM

lennavan: I don't understand why.  What do they need a solution to?  What is the specific problem that needs addressing?


The assumption is that most computers are connected to the internet or have data transferred over USB drives. In that case you damn sure want something that can receive security patches, especially when newly released Win7/8 patches will give hackers targets to probe on the older XP code.

Something that's purely offline, say to operate machinery, may be fine to keep on XP. But if you connect it to the internet you have no idea what will happen at that point. Even if you insert an infected USB drive from another source you may end up infecting the machine the old fashioned way, and if you're a government agency with sensitive information (maybe just an old list of personal information) that may get compromised through an unsuspecting means like said USB drive and then transmitted once it finds itself on an internet-enabled computer somewhere else.
 
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