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(Boston Herald)   Massachusetts governor: I'm banning this new drug because it's dangerous: Drug maker: You and what FDA?   (bostonherald.com) divider line 172
    More: Interesting, Massachusetts Governor, FDA, Massachusetts, new drugs, drug companies, state Department of Public Health  
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11025 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2014 at 9:01 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-08 09:32:28 AM  

TheSelphie:
Thread over.  Opioids are bullshiat but this is a bad precedent indeed.

Private_Citizen: I came to be snarky about a mere State Governor challenging the authority of the corporate overlords, but the point about conservative governors banning birth control is well taken.

This would set a bad, bad precedent. Fight it at the FDA level.


bborchar:
My problem is where does governor have the power to do such a thing?  And if he's allowed to do it, what's stopping other conservative governors from banning drugs like birth control?

He overstepped his bounds and needs to leave this up to the correct authorities.



Why is everyone acting like the governor believes the ban will stand?  Did you guys ever consider that he did this in order to point out a glaring flaw in the drug approval system and cause national press and attention?

If the system is broken it needs to be corrected.  Either by fixing the problem or by bypassing the system.  As Governor Patrick doesn't have the authority to fix the FDA approval system this is what he does.  Yes, it's illegal.  No, it won't stand.  However, if the people are going to initially support the idea, THEN think of the FDA's legal authority it's probably going to overturn the FDA approval.
 
2014-04-08 09:32:36 AM  
FTFA -  "Medical decisions should not be made by politicians."

Wait... a rep for Big Pharma just said that?? The same people who lobby those same politicians to make sure that cannabis will never be legal in this country because these drug vultures know their days are numbered if it ever is made so?
 
MFK
2014-04-08 09:32:53 AM  

jtown: wyltoknow: Even if there is a huge problem with opiads in the state, what does banning this one drug do? Absolutely nothing. Even if patrick banned every opiad, which would be insane, it still would hardly dent the problem. Just another politician pretending that theyre fixing the problem. How about some actual solutions? Why is opiate abuse so heavy in the state? What is causing people to turn to this drug? Where are the efforts to rehabilitate?

I'm guessing if you dig down, you'll find that the governor has close ties to some other opioid manufacturer.  A friend or relative, a significant investment, big campaign donor, etc.


I'm guessing that you have no idea how bad the heroin problem in New England is. In Vermont, the governor devoted most of the State of the State speech to it. It's seriously "that bad".
 
2014-04-08 09:33:13 AM  

somedude210: This is the one that should've never gotten through the FDA and is very very very easy to overdose on, right?

I have no problem with Patrick doing this, if that's the case. New England is facing a massive opiate problem


You mean the one that is designed for patients on chronic opiate therapy, and has no tylenol to fry their liver?

That one?
 
2014-04-08 09:33:28 AM  
I haven't done the full research, but i am assuming that this is unlawful under federal pre-emption, as the FDA pretty much holds the field in drug approvals. Since all the way back at the turn of the century the courts have held that a state cannot ban a duly labeled pharmaceutical approved by the FDA.  See McDermott v. Wisconsin, 228 U.S. 115 (1913).

While a state can criminalize off-label or unprescribed use of a drug, my understanding is that the FDA always wins when a state tries to go up against their approvals.
 
2014-04-08 09:33:41 AM  
I propose we ban Naloxone and see how much of the problem sorts itself out.
 
2014-04-08 09:33:49 AM  

bborchar: somedude210: This is the one that should've never gotten through the FDA and is very very very easy to overdose on, right?

I have no problem with Patrick doing this, if that's the case. New England is facing a massive opiate problem

My problem is where does governor have the power to do such a thing?  And if he's allowed to do it, what's stopping other conservative governors from banning drugs like birth control?

He overstepped his bounds and needs to leave this up to the correct authorities.


States rights. It is how the US was supposed to operate.
 
2014-04-08 09:35:29 AM  

MFK: I'm guessing that you have no idea how bad the heroin problem in New England is. In Vermont, the governor devoted most of the State of the State speech to it. It's seriously "that bad".


Hell, even the governor of Maine is concerned about this
 
2014-04-08 09:35:30 AM  

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: bborchar:

My problem is where does governor have the power to do such a thing?

The Tenth Amdendment to the US Constitution:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


General welfare + Necessary and Proper clause makes drug safety a Federal matter, not a State matter. The power has already been delegated to the United States.
 
2014-04-08 09:35:51 AM  

bborchar: My problem is where does governor have the power to do such a thing? And if he's allowed to do it, what's stopping other conservative governors from banning drugs like birth control?


At the very least, doesn't the state legislature have to like, pass a bill or something?
 
2014-04-08 09:36:32 AM  

KidneyStone: States rights. It is how the US was supposed to operate.


Someone didn't study the Articles of Confederation in 5th grade US History.
 
2014-04-08 09:37:15 AM  

RyansPrivates: So the problem of abusing a medication that has a place in medical use is to ban it outright?  No, I don't think so. The problem isn't the drug, it is the over-prescribing by doctors.  Which, by the way,  the governor has the authority to combat.  It isn't the easy path forward, but it is the right path forward.

I too have known my share of heroin/opiod addicts, and I blame the pushers: the doctors that prescribed the medicne to begin with without proper oversight/patient interaction.  I also have known 2 people that may or may not be addicted, but have a good medical reasons for opioid use, both related to spinal injury problems.  Banning these substances would reduce their quality of life.  Both hold full time jobs that they are able to actually function in because of prescription opioids.


OK, I'm open to debate.  But the line needs to be much, much farther away.  As in, injection at the hospital only far away.

One of the dead ones actually died of prescription overdose (mixing pills and Methadone).  The one in prison was robbing a pharmacy for opioids.  Every last one of them used prescription opioids and at least three of them started on it.  It SHOULD NOT be readily available.
 
2014-04-08 09:37:25 AM  

hardinparamedic: You mean the one that is designed for patients on chronic opiate therapy, and has no tylenol to fry their liver?


I dunno, is that the one that's significantly more powerful than vicodin and is incredibly easy to OD on? That's the one
 
MFK
2014-04-08 09:38:33 AM  

somedude210: MFK: I'm guessing that you have no idea how bad the heroin problem in New England is. In Vermont, the governor devoted most of the State of the State speech to it. It's seriously "that bad".

Hell, even the governor of Maine is concerned about this


yeah, but in his typical dickhead fashion, his response is to just lock up as many users and dealers as he can get his hands on. Talk about tackling a problem from ignorance.
 
2014-04-08 09:38:37 AM  

Private_Citizen: I came to be snarky about a mere State Governor challenging the authority of the corporate overlords, but the point about conservative governors banning birth control is well taken.

This would set a bad, bad precedent. Fight it at the FDA level.


I could see the the state of Texas banning plan b just like this nimrod and quote the reason public safety
 
2014-04-08 09:38:56 AM  
When people are bombing out their livers on lortabs, why is this idiot flipping on Z ER? Leave the drugs to the professionals and go back to doing whatever it is Governors do... like abusing their power in an ill-conceived attempt to position themselves to make a run at president. Oh, wait..
 
2014-04-08 09:39:17 AM  

MFK: The FDA is toothless thanks to our Republican friends in Congress who feel that "all regulation is bad hurr durr".


This. Like the EPA and the US Patent Office, it's a deliberately underfunded, harried agency which is only permitted to exist to give the illusion of oversight and regulation. And to take the heat off politicians and drug companies when a truly dangerous drug is allowed on the market and things go horribly wrong. I can't imagine a more depressing, soul-destroying place to work.
 
2014-04-08 09:39:36 AM  
The Texas governor wants to ban painkillers, but just for women.
 
2014-04-08 09:39:43 AM  
GORDON:  All democrats do wrong is get caught committing voter fraud over and over.

Wow, and look all all the examples you provided! I'm convinced.
 
2014-04-08 09:39:56 AM  

KidneyStone: bborchar: somedude210: This is the one that should've never gotten through the FDA and is very very very easy to overdose on, right?

I have no problem with Patrick doing this, if that's the case. New England is facing a massive opiate problem

My problem is where does governor have the power to do such a thing?  And if he's allowed to do it, what's stopping other conservative governors from banning drugs like birth control?

He overstepped his bounds and needs to leave this up to the correct authorities.

States rights. It is how the US was supposed to operate.


Did you read that on a fortune cookie?
 
2014-04-08 09:42:08 AM  

MFK: yeah, but in his typical dickhead fashion, his response is to just lock up as many users and dealers as he can get his hands on. Talk about tackling a problem from ignorance.


I said nothing about him doing the right thing, only that he was concerned :P This is LaPage we're talking about.
 
2014-04-08 09:42:10 AM  

somedude210: TheSelphie: Suflig: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-kolodny-md/zohydro-the-fdaapprov e d-p_b_4855964.html

This here is an interesting link about the drug. It's 50mg of hydrocodone, ten times as potent as vicodin. An FDA advisory committee voted 11-2 against releasing it but it was approved anyway.

wat

exactly, relying on the FDA to prevent the commercial sale of this is like praying that Congress will do something about domestic spying


It's 50mg of hydrocodone in slow-release form. It's not equivalent to vicodin... until it's crushed. But this is the same problem with other delayed-release opiods and even though some have been retooled with a "tamper-resistant" formulation, they're not tamper-proof.

As for those suggesting banning all opioids: get something like cancer or other profound pain and then come back begging. Pain management is a science unto itself that people don't appreciate until they need it.

Anyway, banning opioids would just fill the Mexican cartels with glee. It's not like you can stop everyone on the planet from growing opium poppies.

The problem is addiction. Deal with that, governor.
 
2014-04-08 09:42:56 AM  

somedude210: hardinparamedic: You mean the one that is designed for patients on chronic opiate therapy, and has no tylenol to fry their liver?

I dunno, is that the one that's significantly more powerful than vicodin and is incredibly easy to OD on? That's the one


You might want to set down for this, because it's clear you've never heard the pants-pissing terror of Morphine, Dilaudid, Demerol, or Fentanyl.

But no. Chronic liver damage and fulminate liver failure in chronic pain patients is a small price to pay for punishing addicts for the failure of our system to properly manage pain and addiction.
 
2014-04-08 09:43:09 AM  

Target Builder: Galer said Zohydro is safer than competitor Vicodin because it doesn't include acetaminophen, which can cause liver damage.

Thats the point of putting the acetaminophen in there - so you can't take enough of the drug to get really high without killing yourself.


Everything has an alternative.

http://www.rxlist.com/vicoprofen-drug.htm
 
2014-04-08 09:43:55 AM  

Private_Citizen: I came to be snarky about a mere State Governor challenging the authority of the corporate overlords, but the point about conservative governors banning birth control is well taken.

This would set a bad, bad precedent. Fight it at the FDA level.


The problem is that in recent years the FDA has become the happy little lap dog of the pharma industry.  While other parts of the country see alot of meth we generally see more opiates, and it's usually in the form of pills.

We have a huge medical industry here.  Pharma dispatches their reps for the new drug, the drug gets over-prescribed and it makes what is already a bad problem even worse.

Is it his place to "ban" it?  Eh, no.  Not really.  But as Governor it is in his best interest to serve the taxpayers by not having more of this sort of thing around.

And before anyone says something about Massachusetts being anti-big business and anti-commerce I would challenge you to come out and take a ride up Route 128 with me and for every building we see with a big Pharma logo or a Tech company logo on it I get to punch you in the neck once.
 
2014-04-08 09:44:34 AM  

MFK: jtown: wyltoknow: Even if there is a huge problem with opiads in the state, what does banning this one drug do? Absolutely nothing. Even if patrick banned every opiad, which would be insane, it still would hardly dent the problem. Just another politician pretending that theyre fixing the problem. How about some actual solutions? Why is opiate abuse so heavy in the state? What is causing people to turn to this drug? Where are the efforts to rehabilitate?

I'm guessing if you dig down, you'll find that the governor has close ties to some other opioid manufacturer.  A friend or relative, a significant investment, big campaign donor, etc.

I'm guessing that you have no idea how bad the heroin problem in New England is. In Vermont, the governor devoted most of the State of the State speech to it. It's seriously "that bad".


I don't need to know how bad it is to know that banning one (1) prescribed opioid does not address a drug abuse problem.  To have an effect, they must  all be banned.  If only one is banned, the reason it was banned can't be to address a drug abuse problem.  ?Comprende?
 
2014-04-08 09:44:50 AM  
I was addicted to hydromorphone which is about 10x stronger than hydrocodone for pain  due to radiation to tonsil cancer.  I was only on it for about 4 weeks post rads, imagine someone sunburning the inner lining of your throat for 35 days in a row, that was the pain level, morphine didn't touch it.

I tapered too fast when the pain was abating and was the most miserable I've ever been in my life. I was in the fetal position scratching, sweating, freezing, tremors, booting for about 40 hrs straight.

I doubt I'll ever take them again due to how awful I felt during due to side effects while trying to get off them.

Opitates do wonders for those who need them. But holy hell stay the F away if your just messing around. Smoke some weed its far cheaper and much less trouble and honestly a better high.   I was convinced that there were people after me when I was on the hydromorphone. Was in no way an experience i want to repeat.
 
2014-04-08 09:45:58 AM  

MFK: goop


MFK: Private_Citizen: I came to be snarky about a mere State Governor challenging the authority of the corporate overlords, but the point about conservative governors banning birth control is well taken.

This would set a bad, bad precedent. Fight it at the FDA level.

The FDA is toothless thanks to our Republican friends in Congress who feel that "all regulation is bad hurr durr".

Keep in mind that the entire reason that New England is dealing with such a large Heroin epidemic at all is largely because of big Pharma who were pushing doctors to prescribe OxyContin and the like for every little ache and pain resulting in a huge amount of hard core opiates in everyone's medicine cabinets. By the time they realized how many people were getting hooked on them for recreational purposes, they cracked down hard on their availability and for example, required that if the pills were crushed they would turn to a goop instead of a powder. However, this was akin to closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out. What happened was that you were left with a large addict population and with pills going on the black market for $40-$60 a pop on the low end the heroin dealers swooped in and were like "you should try this. It's like Oxys only cheaper and way easier to get".


Actually, people found out that if you take the new formulation and soak the tablets in soda you can crush it. People (addicts or criminals) figured it out a couple weeks after the crush-proof formulation came out.
 
2014-04-08 09:46:55 AM  
The reason there is an epidemic of addiction to pharmaceuticals in this country is because the left wing pushed for reeducation of physicians to make sure they were available to the patients more easily.  Of course all that was needed was a prescription but the left wingers went so far as to require Continuing Medical Education courses about why you should give your patients pain relievers.  In California the requirement was for 12 hours of CME time and many states followed suit.  Now in the OC more people die of pharmaceutical overdose than die in motor vehicle accidents.  The left wing never anticipates the consequences of their actions like why it's a bad idea to pay teenagers to have babies.
 
2014-04-08 09:47:04 AM  
somedude210:  Patrick can argue that this drug would be exasperating the opiate problem in MA. Sure, the conservative governors could do this for birth control, but unless they argue that there's a shortage of a population in the state, they wouldn't have the same reasoning to use the power.

But I understand where you're coming from and am inclined to agree that this will have terrible consequences for those living in conservative states, but you also need to understand that since the recession started, we have an absolutely awful heroin epidemic


Maybe Patrick can start by banning heroin.  Oh, wait.
The problem isn't the drug, and I'm pretty sure Patrick doesn't have the authority to overstep the FDA.  In order to combat a drug problem, you don't target the drugs.  I thought we as a Nation had figured that out already (even though it seems that we try to ignore it all the time).
 
2014-04-08 09:47:18 AM  
Perdue Pharma, makers of Oxycontin, will be coming out with their own hydrocodone extended release compound. Oxycontin tabs contain a tamper-resistant opioid antagonist, naltrexone, which if broken open neutralizes the narcotic and prevents the instant high.

FDA prevented generic Oxycontin from being released due to lack of naltrexone. I would guess that Zogenix would be kicked off the market as it lacks a tamper resistance.

http://timesofsandiego.com/business/2014/03/12/san-diegos-zogenix-th re atened-by-connecticut-based-perdue-pharmas-hydrocodone-success/
 
2014-04-08 09:47:18 AM  

somedude210: This is the one that should've never gotten through the FDA and is very very very easy to overdose on, right?

I have no problem with Patrick doing this, if that's the case. New England is facing a massive opiate problem


because it sucks to be so close to Patriot fans or because New England is 2 steps away from become Old England?
 
2014-04-08 09:47:22 AM  

jtown: MFK: jtown: wyltoknow: Even if there is a huge problem with opiads in the state, what does banning this one drug do? Absolutely nothing. Even if patrick banned every opiad, which would be insane, it still would hardly dent the problem. Just another politician pretending that theyre fixing the problem. How about some actual solutions? Why is opiate abuse so heavy in the state? What is causing people to turn to this drug? Where are the efforts to rehabilitate?

I'm guessing if you dig down, you'll find that the governor has close ties to some other opioid manufacturer.  A friend or relative, a significant investment, big campaign donor, etc.

I'm guessing that you have no idea how bad the heroin problem in New England is. In Vermont, the governor devoted most of the State of the State speech to it. It's seriously "that bad".

I don't need to know how bad it is to know that banning one (1) prescribed opioid does not address a drug abuse problem.  To have an effect, they must  all be banned.  If only one is banned, the reason it was banned can't be to address a drug abuse problem.  ?Comprende?


What will you take for pain if you you get cancer or badly injured? Bayer Aspirin?
 
2014-04-08 09:49:55 AM  

OscarTamerz: The reason there is an epidemic of addiction to pharmaceuticals in this country is because the left wing pushed for reeducation of physicians to make sure they were available to the patients more easily. Of course all that was needed was a prescription but the left wingers went so far as to require Continuing Medical Education courses about why you should give your patients pain relievers. In California the requirement was for 12 hours of CME time and many states followed suit. Now in the OC more people die of pharmaceutical overdose than die in motor vehicle accidents. The left wing never anticipates the consequences of their actions like why it's a bad idea to pay teenagers to have babies.


I'm pregnant
 
2014-04-08 09:50:24 AM  

OscarTamerz: The reason there is an epidemic of addiction to pharmaceuticals in this country is because the left wing pushed for reeducation of physicians to make sure they were available to the patients more easily.  Of course all that was needed was a prescription but the left wingers went so far as to require Continuing Medical Education courses about why you should give your patients pain relievers.  In California the requirement was for 12 hours of CME time and many states followed suit.  Now in the OC more people die of pharmaceutical overdose than die in motor vehicle accidents.  The left wing never anticipates the consequences of their actions like why it's a bad idea to pay teenagers to have babies.


upload.wikimedia.org

That's one of the most moronic and out of touch statements I've ever read on FARK. In reality, we have a problem with under-treating and mistreating pain in the United States. Physicians are too apt to throw what are supposed to be short term opiates that have a huge abuse and harm potential at patients, rather than refer them to pain management specialists for proper treatment with opiate and non-opiate medications.

It has absolutely nothing to do with politics.
 
2014-04-08 09:51:20 AM  
jtown:

I don't need to know how bad it is to know that banning one (1) prescribed opioid does not address a drug abuse problem.  To have an effect, they must  all be banned.

Fun fact: this doesn't work either.
 
2014-04-08 09:53:44 AM  

hardinparamedic: OscarTamerz: The reason there is an epidemic of addiction to pharmaceuticals in this country is because the left wing pushed for reeducation of physicians to make sure they were available to the patients more easily.  Of course all that was needed was a prescription but the left wingers went so far as to require Continuing Medical Education courses about why you should give your patients pain relievers.  In California the requirement was for 12 hours of CME time and many states followed suit.  Now in the OC more people die of pharmaceutical overdose than die in motor vehicle accidents.  The left wing never anticipates the consequences of their actions like why it's a bad idea to pay teenagers to have babies.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x163]

That's one of the most moronic and out of touch statements I've ever read on FARK. In reality, we have a problem with under-treating and mistreating pain in the United States. Physicians are too apt to throw what are supposed to be short term opiates that have a huge abuse and harm potential at patients, rather than refer them to pain management specialists for proper treatment with opiate and non-opiate medications.

It has absolutely nothing to do with politics.


That comment was a good example of "this person could be a moron because they think this or they could be a moron because they are the sort of moron who thinks pretending to be a moron is less moronic than being a moron in the first place for thinking this".

So in other words - one can safely discard everything they say.
 
2014-04-08 09:54:02 AM  

scut207: OscarTamerz: The reason there is an epidemic of addiction to pharmaceuticals in this country is because the left wing pushed for reeducation of physicians to make sure they were available to the patients more easily. Of course all that was needed was a prescription but the left wingers went so far as to require Continuing Medical Education courses about why you should give your patients pain relievers. In California the requirement was for 12 hours of CME time and many states followed suit. Now in the OC more people die of pharmaceutical overdose than die in motor vehicle accidents. The left wing never anticipates the consequences of their actions like why it's a bad idea to pay teenagers to have babies.

I'm pregnant


Ha Fark just changed "0 / 10" to "I'm pregnant"... wife would be thrilled IVF is expensive.
 
2014-04-08 09:55:01 AM  

ruta: The problem is addiction. Deal with that, governor.


....he is. We have an incredibly successful drug court program for users to get help instead of going to jail. The problem here is that all our progress to helping addicts is being undercut by a legal, very powerful opiate.

jaybeezey: because it sucks to be so close to Patriot fans or because New England is 2 steps away from become Old England?


snark noted, but it's mostly because the pill popping phenomenon is far too expensive now, so those addicts are switching to cheaper heroin for the same high at half the price.
 
2014-04-08 09:56:13 AM  
RyansPrivates:I too have known my share of heroin/opiod addicts, and I blame the pushers: the doctors that prescribed the medicne to begin with without proper oversight/patient interaction.

The addict is the only one in the equation who can conclude that they are indeed an addict. Just because someone abuses a drug doesn't mean the doctor shouldn't be allowed to prescribe it to people who can use the drug without abusing it.

One of the most polished tools in an addict's toolbox is the ability to manipulate and lie. Second guessing every patient's motives is NOT the responsibility of a doctor who feels they are reasonably improving someone's existence.

I have no problem placing a significant portion of the blame on the addict, and I say this as someone in recovery myself.
 
2014-04-08 09:58:14 AM  

Pangea: I have no problem placing a significant portion of the blame on the addict, and I say this as someone in recovery myself.


I have a feeling that  RyansPrivates is the kind of person who would withhold pain medication from someone with a broken leg because they asked for something for the pain.
 
2014-04-08 09:58:31 AM  

bborchar: somedude210: This is the one that should've never gotten through the FDA and is very very very easy to overdose on, right?

I have no problem with Patrick doing this, if that's the case. New England is facing a massive opiate problem

My problem is where does governor have the power to do such a thing?  And if he's allowed to do it, what's stopping other conservative governors from banning drugs like birth control?

He overstepped his bounds and needs to leave this up to the correct authorities.


Pay attention kid.
It seems you have an axe to grind being a liberal and all, but we're talking about Obama Lite here.
 
2014-04-08 10:00:45 AM  

WTFDYW: jtown: MFK: jtown: wyltoknow: Even if there is a huge problem with opiads in the state, what does banning this one drug do? Absolutely nothing. Even if patrick banned every opiad, which would be insane, it still would hardly dent the problem. Just another politician pretending that theyre fixing the problem. How about some actual solutions? Why is opiate abuse so heavy in the state? What is causing people to turn to this drug? Where are the efforts to rehabilitate?

I'm guessing if you dig down, you'll find that the governor has close ties to some other opioid manufacturer.  A friend or relative, a significant investment, big campaign donor, etc.

I'm guessing that you have no idea how bad the heroin problem in New England is. In Vermont, the governor devoted most of the State of the State speech to it. It's seriously "that bad".

I don't need to know how bad it is to know that banning one (1) prescribed opioid does not address a drug abuse problem.  To have an effect, they must  all be banned.  If only one is banned, the reason it was banned can't be to address a drug abuse problem.  ?Comprende?

What will you take for pain if you you get cancer or badly injured? Bayer Aspirin?


Thank you for missing the point of my comments entirely.  My theory is that this has to do with the governor or someone close to the governor making a lot of money by having the competition eliminated and nothing at all to do with preventing drug abuse or eliminating pain medication.
 
2014-04-08 10:01:19 AM  

mike_d85: RyansPrivates: So the problem of abusing a medication that has a place in medical use is to ban it outright?  No, I don't think so. The problem isn't the drug, it is the over-prescribing by doctors.  Which, by the way,  the governor has the authority to combat.  It isn't the easy path forward, but it is the right path forward.

I too have known my share of heroin/opiod addicts, and I blame the pushers: the doctors that prescribed the medicne to begin with without proper oversight/patient interaction.  I also have known 2 people that may or may not be addicted, but have a good medical reasons for opioid use, both related to spinal injury problems.  Banning these substances would reduce their quality of life.  Both hold full time jobs that they are able to actually function in because of prescription opioids.

OK, I'm open to debate.  But the line needs to be much, much farther away.  As in, injection at the hospital only far away.

One of the dead ones actually died of prescription overdose (mixing pills and Methadone).  The one in prison was robbing a pharmacy for opioids.  Every last one of them used prescription opioids and at least three of them started on it.  It SHOULD NOT be readily available.


That is reasonable.  (Not readily available.)  Maybe tighter regulations around administration. Maybe clinic only adminstration?  Or in the case of a pill, you have to go to the same pharmacy on some regular basis (i.e. once a week).  But I think the root of the problem is overprescription.  Recently broke my 5th metarsial.  Not pleasant mind you, but far from the most painful thing in the world.  But the doctor wrote a script for hydrocodone.  I never filled it.  I could manage my pain to a reasonable level with tylonol and cold/ice.  The doctors need to get out of the business of writing scripts for this stuff so much.
 
2014-04-08 10:05:27 AM  

mike_d85: ban all opioids


We're pretty much there already, and it does nothing to stem the flow.

The only way to control the sales and marketing of opioids is to control the sales and marketing of opioids.  As in, the government does all the sales, marketing, and distribution, and gets as many people into treatment as possible.

My brother's life was shortened considerably by heroin abuse, and he'd have fared much better with clean junk available and treatment programs required.
 
2014-04-08 10:06:19 AM  

RyansPrivates: mike_d85: RyansPrivates: So the problem of abusing a medication that has a place in medical use is to ban it outright?  No, I don't think so. The problem isn't the drug, it is the over-prescribing by doctors.  Which, by the way,  the governor has the authority to combat.  It isn't the easy path forward, but it is the right path forward.

I too have known my share of heroin/opiod addicts, and I blame the pushers: the doctors that prescribed the medicne to begin with without proper oversight/patient interaction.  I also have known 2 people that may or may not be addicted, but have a good medical reasons for opioid use, both related to spinal injury problems.  Banning these substances would reduce their quality of life.  Both hold full time jobs that they are able to actually function in because of prescription opioids.

OK, I'm open to debate.  But the line needs to be much, much farther away.  As in, injection at the hospital only far away.

One of the dead ones actually died of prescription overdose (mixing pills and Methadone).  The one in prison was robbing a pharmacy for opioids.  Every last one of them used prescription opioids and at least three of them started on it.  It SHOULD NOT be readily available.

That is reasonable.  (Not readily available.)  Maybe tighter regulations around administration. Maybe clinic only adminstration?  Or in the case of a pill, you have to go to the same pharmacy on some regular basis (i.e. once a week).  But I think the root of the problem is overprescription.  Recently broke my 5th metarsial.  Not pleasant mind you, but far from the most painful thing in the world.  But the doctor wrote a script for hydrocodone.  I never filled it.  I could manage my pain to a reasonable level with tylonol and cold/ice.  The doctors need to get out of the business of writing scripts for this stuff so much.


When I had my scrip, there was no way I could drive, no way I could take any sort of public transport due to nasea.  Back to the drawing board.
 
2014-04-08 10:08:25 AM  

RyansPrivates: mike_d85: RyansPrivates: So the problem of abusing a medication that has a place in medical use is to ban it outright?  No, I don't think so. The problem isn't the drug, it is the over-prescribing by doctors.  Which, by the way,  the governor has the authority to combat.  It isn't the easy path forward, but it is the right path forward.

I too have known my share of heroin/opiod addicts, and I blame the pushers: the doctors that prescribed the medicne to begin with without proper oversight/patient interaction.  I also have known 2 people that may or may not be addicted, but have a good medical reasons for opioid use, both related to spinal injury problems.  Banning these substances would reduce their quality of life.  Both hold full time jobs that they are able to actually function in because of prescription opioids.

OK, I'm open to debate.  But the line needs to be much, much farther away.  As in, injection at the hospital only far away.

One of the dead ones actually died of prescription overdose (mixing pills and Methadone).  The one in prison was robbing a pharmacy for opioids.  Every last one of them used prescription opioids and at least three of them started on it.  It SHOULD NOT be readily available.

That is reasonable.  (Not readily available.)  Maybe tighter regulations around administration. Maybe clinic only adminstration?  Or in the case of a pill, you have to go to the same pharmacy on some regular basis (i.e. once a week).  But I think the root of the problem is overprescription.  Recently broke my 5th metarsial.  Not pleasant mind you, but far from the most painful thing in the world.  But the doctor wrote a script for hydrocodone.  I never filled it.  I could manage my pain to a reasonable level with tylonol and cold/ice.  The doctors need to get out of the business of writing scripts for this stuff so much.



Seems like -- if that guy had to rob a pharmacy -- that prescription opiates weren't *readily* available.  I don't think robbery counts as ready-availability.

/ have had surgery a few times (will spare the details, but it wasn't pleasant) that involved being on opiates for a few weeks -- in a few cases, on a PCA pump that injected opiates (morphine or hydromorphone) continuously for nearly a week at a time
// starting & stopping seemed like no big problem, and I was glad to have the pain control
 
2014-04-08 10:09:08 AM  

somedude210: New England is facing a massive opiate problem


And it is being handled wrong.
Small scale, if your kid is on it, you go tough love, cold turkey, and where did you get it and put the dealer behind bars, and keep the kid off.
Large scale, Oh, boo hoo. let's give them an alternative addiction, dont' ask where they got it, put in clinics, and pillows and tax the public and don't come down like a ton of bricks on people selling poison on our streets.

Clinics should work like this. You walk in. You get strapped to a cot.
You want something to drink? Water.
Eat? Bread.
Want something else? Tell us who you got the junk from and we get a conviction and we'll talk peanut butter and orange juice.

LEOs should work like this: You get caught selling it you get to see a Judge. Judge should grant as much bail as if they had been selling ricin or anthrax. And charged the same. And put away the same.
Come down like a ton of granite on them and put the word out.
You get hooked, you get cold turkey
You get caught dealing, you get the max.
Do.No.Budge.an inch on this. they will walk all over you if you give them anything else.
Boo hoo. Knock it off.
 
2014-04-08 10:09:43 AM  

OscarTamerz: The reason there is an epidemic of addiction to pharmaceuticals in this country is because the left wing pushed for reeducation of physicians to make sure they were available to the patients more easily.  Of course all that was needed was a prescription but the left wingers went so far as to require Continuing Medical Education courses about why you should give your patients pain relievers.  In California the requirement was for 12 hours of CME time and many states followed suit.  Now in the OC more people die of pharmaceutical overdose than die in motor vehicle accidents.  The left wing never anticipates the consequences of their actions like why it's a bad idea to pay teenagers to have babies.


So libs are pushing the agenda resulting in prescribing all these opiates, which routes billions of dollars to the pharmaceutical companies?

Surely you can provide some citations, lest everyone just assume you're a complete liar.
 
2014-04-08 10:10:13 AM  

Thunderpipes: Nothing wrong with prescription medication.


Yes, there is.
The fact that this apparently never occurs to anyone as even a possibility, that's what is wrong.
Everyone you know taking a pill for something, that isn't right.
 
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