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(ABC)   Americans are in such lousy financial shape that 4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000 if their lives depended on it   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 117
    More: Sad, Americans, Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Pew Charitable Trusts, Sufis, confidence interval  
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6743 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2014 at 10:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-04-08 10:11:32 AM  
9 votes:

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.
2014-04-08 10:33:28 AM  
6 votes:
Wages have fallen and prices have risen to the point where Americans are in such lousy financial shape that 4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000 if their lives depended on it.

Fixed that for you Wall Street.
2014-04-08 09:57:03 AM  
6 votes:

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?
2014-04-08 11:06:11 AM  
5 votes:

lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.


I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.
2014-04-08 10:40:06 AM  
4 votes:
Gee, I wonder why?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11098797/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/ us -savings-rate-hits-lowest-level/#.U0QJlPldWzk

In 2006, 2 years before the Great Recession, American's already had a negative savings rate over the year.

In case the powers that be haven't figured it out: there's damn near no more blood to be squeezed out of the middle and lower classes... they are already on razor thin margins as it is.
2014-04-08 10:30:32 AM  
4 votes:
More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.
2014-04-08 12:43:33 PM  
3 votes:
At least this thread delivered on the huge pile of self-righteous bastards who have never had a bad thing happen to them, to tell us all how we *should* have been handling our finances since we were 5.

\Thanks, FARK
2014-04-08 12:43:24 PM  
3 votes:

Thunderpipes: Everyone knows an individual can get much more out of their money. SS was never designed to give a cushy retirement for 25 years. What was the average lifetime when it was enacted, 65?


You miss the point. Social Security is not just an investment vehicle. It is also an insurance plan that spreads risk. That lowers your yield, true, but it also lowers your risk.

As an individual your investment choices could leave you unable to support yourself. In the SS pool you are guaranteed the income later.

It's not fair or reasonable to compare returns that are "at risk" to a sure thing.
2014-04-08 10:44:29 AM  
3 votes:
I won't make wild accusations.  I'll just CSB for you.

I was there, broke, living paycheck to paycheck, sometimes borrowing from a future paycheck just to have money now to pay bills I thought I couldn't pay.   One day I woke up and said I can't do this anymore.  I stopped going out if I didn't really have the money.  I stopped all the extras that I really didn't need.  I put myself on a budget.  I sold some stuff and paid the lowest balance credit cards first just to feel better about my situation.  Then I just kept working to pay off stuff one at a time.

10 years later I have a better job, money in the bank, more money in another bank, a new house, money to blow on fun things,  only two credit cards with zero balance on them,  and still following a budget.

It takes some sacrifice, but you can do it.  I know, I've been there.

WRITE IT DOWN.  Just shutup with the excuses and WRITE IT DOWN.  You'd be surprised at the amount you piss away and not know it.
2014-04-08 10:35:41 AM  
3 votes:
We're by no means well off, but we are pretty careful with our spending. We could come up with $2k but it would pretty much wipe out the accounts until the next paycheck rolled around. I've been there before where an unexpected expense of $300 or so caused a ton of pain, and don't want to be there again if at all possible, so I try to keep a $2k or so buffer in there.

What would really be nice is to be at a point where I could put some real money away.
2014-04-08 10:33:59 AM  
3 votes:

physt: fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.

Haven't listen to him in awhile but, in my opinion, he only got nutty around the Jesus stuff which he seemed to try to keep to minimum.   Most of his financial advice seemed pretty spot on for people struggling with money.  It took me awhile to get Mrs. Physt on board with the program but we paid off $38K in debt in less than a year and haven't looked back. Life has certainly gotten easier since we simplified all the bills as well.

Dave does a pretty good job of "reparenting" for people that are acting childish about money.  I love to hear him kick ass when someone making $25K a year is driving around in a $30K truck when he's got bills to pay.


It's no different than all the diet gurus.  People know what to do, they know how to do it, they just need their ass kicked hard enough to go do it.  Spend less than you make.  Eat less than you burn.  The rest is just gimmicky bullshiat.
2014-04-08 10:20:03 AM  
3 votes:
And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.
2014-04-08 08:54:18 AM  
3 votes:
Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.
2014-04-08 12:58:20 PM  
2 votes:

MadHatter500: Now recompute for $20k per year of income, not $100k.  It's the min wagers that SS is for, not above average incomes.  But you knew that already, and think the poor should starve to death once they're done serving their masters.

Also, your math is wrong - you won't get 12.5%.  You'll get 6.25%.  That guy paying you gets to keep the other 6.25%, and has no reason to give it to you.



If you want to use 20k, fine.  Multiple everything by 1/5.

You still steal all the social security from poor people when they die at 61.  But you knew that, didn't you.

You get 12.5%, if you are self employed and pay the actual social security tax.


If you are a 6.25% er, then you might not get it.  Odds are you will, or Spacely's Sprockets will get all of Cogswell's Cogs' good employees, because Spacely gave the 6.25% to the employees.
2014-04-08 12:14:58 PM  
2 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest
it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.


This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.
2014-04-08 11:27:28 AM  
2 votes:

kab: If only poor people would stop buying stuff, it would fix everything, including unemployment!


Fun fact: conservative fiscal policy suggests they believe that if you give a rich person a $1,000,000 tax break that they hoard because they had no use for it, it will benefit the economy more than if you raise a poor person's wage by $1500 a year and they spend all of it on things they need.
2014-04-08 10:58:37 AM  
2 votes:

Serious Black: I wouldn't say it's the only way, but it does make the process a lot easier.


Around this time last year I was looking for work and applying for a lot of jobs.  Most of the sites I applied on were kludgy and confusing and poorly-designed, and that was from a laptop!  No way in hell most of them would have worked from a smartphone.
2014-04-08 10:48:37 AM  
2 votes:

skozlaw: svanmeter: This should make our elected officials nervous.

Nah, they're fine.

[cloudfront.mediamatters.org image 636x480]

doglover: If they just ate beans and lived in shared apartments, they could save up enough to get out their situations.

The funny thing is, your sarcasm works on multiple levels. If they really did try to get into hostel-type living arrangements and the whole thing took off, landlords would just jack up the rates or buy laws making it illegal for more than two unrelated person to live together in a single residence.

/ it's almost like something is draining the pockets of the low and middle working classes
// like... like some sort of upward trickling effect centered on people without the means to fight back


Saw a documentary on Housing Projects in the '60s. Very interesting. Basically it was a Republicans wet dream. If the family had a man who was of working age, he couldn't live with the family. That's right, they would separate families. Control was absolute, you were not allowed to have TVs or much of anything that would make you not poor.

There's a reason the projects became breeding grounds for drugs and gangs and most of it stems from the 1960s and the idea of being forced to stay in poverty in order to have a roof. The GOP would love to return to that standard, it seems.
2014-04-08 10:39:11 AM  
2 votes:

SlothB77: also, I dnrtfa.


That's on your family crest.
2014-04-08 10:33:59 AM  
2 votes:
If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.
2014-04-08 10:32:00 AM  
2 votes:

svanmeter: This should make our elected officials nervous.


Nah, they're fine.

cloudfront.mediamatters.org

doglover: If they just ate beans and lived in shared apartments, they could save up enough to get out their situations.


The funny thing is, your sarcasm works on multiple levels. If they really did try to get into hostel-type living arrangements and the whole thing took off, landlords would just jack up the rates or buy laws making it illegal for more than two unrelated person to live together in a single residence.

/ it's almost like something is draining the pockets of the low and middle working classes
// like... like some sort of upward trickling effect centered on people without the means to fight back
2014-04-08 10:30:41 AM  
2 votes:

fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.


Haven't listen to him in awhile but, in my opinion, he only got nutty around the Jesus stuff which he seemed to try to keep to minimum.   Most of his financial advice seemed pretty spot on for people struggling with money.  It took me awhile to get Mrs. Physt on board with the program but we paid off $38K in debt in less than a year and haven't looked back. Life has certainly gotten easier since we simplified all the bills as well.

Dave does a pretty good job of "reparenting" for people that are acting childish about money.  I love to hear him kick ass when someone making $25K a year is driving around in a $30K truck when he's got bills to pay.
2014-04-08 10:28:16 AM  
2 votes:

GoldSpider: doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.

Why are you so defensive about a simple statement of fact?


Because being poor is a moral failing. If they just ate beans and lived in shared apartments, they could save up enough to get out their situations. The free market rewards hard work and innovation. Look at all the money Nikola Tesla made from his billion dollar patent portfolio.
2014-04-08 10:25:34 AM  
2 votes:
I have about 250k I could pull out and still be debt free.

I know people my age who've worked the same jobs as me and have made as much or more, and can't seem to save a dime of it, so unless you've got mental disabilities, there is no reason you couldn't have worked and saved or invested money in a way to grow it and have some for a rainy day unless you've made some poor life choices, and let's face it.....4 in 10 Americans usually do make some pretty lousy life choices.
2014-04-08 10:22:39 AM  
2 votes:
www.mamascritics.com
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.
2014-04-08 10:20:10 AM  
2 votes:
I would need about three or four days to come up with it, a couple of grand. But a toe, I can get you a toe in an hour.
2014-04-08 10:17:21 AM  
2 votes:

Dimensio: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


That's stupid. You can probably get credit cards on the internet for like 10 cents a pop. Cybertheft is the new rage and doesn't carry as hefty a prison term as armed robbery.
2014-04-08 10:08:35 AM  
2 votes:

Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


well, if the option is sell your car or bike or die right now, does the future really matter?
2014-04-08 09:59:41 AM  
2 votes:
I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.
2014-04-08 09:52:54 AM  
2 votes:
I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.
2014-04-08 08:56:37 AM  
2 votes:
Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.
2014-04-09 02:37:10 PM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.


I agree with you that retards will take the 12.5% and spend it.   It can not be stopped.  That is what retards do.

I would be 100% ok with mandating 10%  (or 12.5%) into a retirement plan.
It is for the good of everyone that people prepare for retirement.    Sort of like the excuses for Obamacare.

Call it the Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act.

Just make them save it.    I would also be ok with limiting investment choices.    I don't need people crying they put it all in WorldCom or Enron.  They can invest in the S&P, or T-bills if they are afraid.

But the money is there, in a REAL retirement account.


I'm sure that insurance companies will be standing in line to offer disability insurance and life insurance to 200 million clients.   I'm sure it could be offered a nice rate for a small percentage of your contribution.  Group term at its finest.


Hmm we already have that. It's call Social Security and in many companies 401K.
2014-04-09 10:40:03 AM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: You guys are trying to say it is impossible to save 7,000 a year for college.


Did you check the title of the thread? 4 in 10 Americans can't come up with 2,000 extra dollars. Of course they can't come up with an extra 7,000. And that's not even the end of college costs.
2014-04-09 04:40:58 AM  
1 votes:

Sergeant Grumbles: And add to any of that student loans, and you definitely won't be finding anything to cut. Sallie Mae demands blood, and being a stone is no excuse.


Nice. I may steal that.

And not that I owe a certain troll any "explanation," but to round off this asinine discussion, here is how people get into the student loan mess. I hadn't planned to take more than the minimal amount of loans, and to work part-time in law school; however, due to health reasons, I found this wasn't going to work. Thanks to my mental illness and inability to obtain health insurance (because preexisting conditions allowed them to deny me without even opening the envelope), I'm unable to do more than one high-stress thing at a time. I can either work full-time or go to school; I cannot do both. So it was take out more loans than I wanted so as to finish law school, or....well, that was it, really. Or not go to law school at all.

And since then, I've been caught in the ugly catch-22 that awaits many law school grads: You can't get a job till you pass the bar--and if you're waiting for your bar results, nobody will hire you for any non-attorney job because a) you'll pass and then you'll quit to become an attorney; or b) you won't pass and then you'll quit to go back to studying for the bar again. Seriously, I have been flat-out told this by HR personnel ("We'd love to hire you, but you're waiting for the bar, right?") And then there's the fact that studying for the bar takes 2 months out of your life; and actually TAKING the damn thing requires an entire week. Hard to find anyone to hire you when you say "Well, I need a week off in February/July to take the bar." (And then you're going to quit, right?)

This happens to a lot of students who went for advanced degrees and for some reason didn't pass the bar or the boards right away; and suddenly had huge loans due, but no doctorate or bar card to get hired on; and the ugly option of deferring their loans and taking expensive test after test ($750 per test for the bar, a couple thousand I think for medial boards, for instance), or giving up and abandoning the idea of being a lawyer or doctor or whatever (and I have some friends who did just that). And it's the same only less costly for lower-income people who believed those ads that ITT Tech would get them hired after only 18 months of training and now they have a worthless AA degree and $40K in loans and nobody's hiring them either.

People who think it's just a question of "cut back and get another (or a better) job" are just stupid, there's no two ways about it.
2014-04-09 02:49:14 AM  
1 votes:
Yes; good job, opportunities, meritocracy, Reagan's bloated defense budgets.  I've recently been helping a cousin of mine 20 years younger than me go through a messy divorce and losing custody of her kids, and she'd kill for $10/hour and 20 hours per week.  I was on welfare and food stamps as a kid, so I am constitutionally unable to leave a stable job with benefits.

It's not anyone's imagination: everything is shiat these days.  Please kill the older boomers first; they're assholes.  I am, too, most likely.
2014-04-09 02:21:06 AM  
1 votes:

mofa: 28-odd years ago, I started putting a whopping $13 per week into my 401K, and even that was painful given my student loans.  Despite my best efforts to screw it up, it's now above half a million.  The truly amazing thing is that it isn't amazing in any way: I've seen it grow by little bitty amounts every month for all these years, except for the white-knuckle times when it took all I could muster to NOT transfer things this way and that.

Time can be your enemy, or time can be your friend.  Make friends with time.


But did you have a decent job? It offered a 401K, so it must not have been that bad. Did you have a company match? Have you remained gainfully employed for the majority?
The thing with the poor is that they don't have access to a lot of that stuff, and time is more their enemy because of all the little costs that life throws at them. That $13 a week could be the difference between eating and not eating.
I don't put shiat into my 401K because there's no company match where I work, and the entire idea is a moot point if my student loans aren't paid off.
2014-04-09 12:56:17 AM  
1 votes:

impaler: Nutsac_Jim: Sallie Mae.   What for.  I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs.  What they do is pay for school.  I didn't have a loan.  Didn't want one.

Someone went to college in the 90s or earlier.


I have Nutsac_Jim tagged as "favors flat tax $11000 each individual annually" from some long forgotten economic thread.

So, Nutsac_Jim, let's hear how that person that struggles to save $40 a week, is going to come up with the weekly $211 "Nutsack_Jim" income tax.

God help them if they have a child or two. $844 a week for a family of four, for their flat tax contribution to the greatness of America?
2014-04-09 12:43:21 AM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Sallie Mae.   What for.  I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs.  What they do is pay for school.  I didn't have a loan.  Didn't want one.


Someone went to college in the 90s or earlier.
2014-04-08 11:29:08 PM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Because I am not talking about delivering the morning paper on my bike.


Even so, the cost of tuition coupled with the cost of living expenses far outpaces what you can make working even multiple jobs in the minimum wage vein.
The cost of a public institution for the 2013-2014 year cost an average $22,826 dollars. Working enough to put a dent in that as well still affording food and shelter, and you might actually have time to go to class if you give up bullshiat like sleeping.
2014-04-08 11:19:45 PM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Every day on my way home, I drive past Waste Management, inc.

They have a sign up.  Now Hiring Full time.

It has been up for at least two years.

If you want, I can get the number for you.


Ah, wonderful.

We're finally down to "If you'd just look, you'd find a great job."
2014-04-08 11:15:25 PM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs. What they do is pay for school.


Know how i know you haven't been to college in the last 10 years?
2014-04-08 10:51:35 PM  
1 votes:

Sergeant Grumbles: Jument: You're missing the point: it's really not a lot of money. Take a hard look at where your money is going.

And you're missing the point. It really IS a lot of money when you're poor.


It is a shiatload of money if you're really poor. An extra $100 a week would kick me up from not even surviving right now to just barely making it (at least, I could pay the bills I've been ignoring for two months). I got behind on my bare edge of survival when I took the bar exam and had to skip a week of work, plus spend half an extra week's pay on food and travel expenses--that was all it took. Now lucky for me, I have a home to stay in; but if I didn't, I'd be in a world of hurt. It's taken me two months to dig myself back out of a very small hole.

This business of "looking at where your money is going" is b/s. I know where my money is going: out of a take-home monthly pay of $800/month, $200 goes to Aunt Sallie Mae, $100 goes to dental insurance, $50 to my sole credit card, $80 for gas, $25 for Internet access and email, $150 for token rent and utilities to my mom, $30 for my meds, and the rest to keep my bank account from having overdraft fees. If I'm not mistaken, that equals just under $800. Where shall I start cutting? It is true, I could be working more than I do, although it's difficult to quit a good part-time job to wait for a better full-time job; still, I do what I can. However, the idea that even impoverished people are somehow wasting money on unneeded frivolities and just need to "cut back" is ludicrous. If I'm spending $800/mo on barest necessities, what's happening to people with, you know, families and actual rent and things?
2014-04-08 07:46:31 PM  
1 votes:
A couple months ago, I could've scrounged up a couple grand.

Oh, yeah, that's right, I did.

Stage 3 cancer took care of that in the first day of hospitalization, even with the best insurance my employer offers.

Now, a couple grand poorer, and much deeper in debt.
2014-04-08 06:29:56 PM  
1 votes:

Cold_Sassy: ZAZ: Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.

Thank god ABC took a two year old story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.

Just curious, how much has your salary increased in the past two years?  Things keep getting more and more expensive, yet employers don't want to seem to shell out any raise money.  It's not just me, it's the entire staff at the company for whom I work.


Speak for yourself! I got a $0.30 raise.
2014-04-08 06:13:31 PM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Except for nobody taking 2/3 of your money, nobody taking 100% of it if you die at or before 61, and your kids get nothing unless they are "lucky enough" that you die when they are 5 or so.

Other than that, sure,.. its *just* like social security.


Hey, you want to discuss turning Social Security into some kind of national pension/401K, I'm all ears, but don't pretend that your Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act doesn't address many of the very same problems Social Security was created to combat.
2014-04-08 05:33:41 PM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: I would be 100% ok with mandating 10% (or 12.5%) into a retirement plan.
It is for the good of everyone that people prepare for retirement. Sort of like the excuses for Obamacare.

Call it the Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act.


Pretty sure you just described Social Security.
2014-04-08 05:06:01 PM  
1 votes:

Jument: You're missing the point: it's really not a lot of money. Take a hard look at where your money is going.


And you're missing the point. It really IS a lot of money when you're poor.
2014-04-08 04:37:16 PM  
1 votes:

JusticeandIndependence: It wasn't $85 a week. It was $85 every other week. So $42.50 every week. Make it $20 and save for two years instead. It was more of a statement about how you can save if you want to. Just save a little bit every paycheck towards a rainy day.


But even $42.50 a week is more than some peoples' food budgets, is more than power and water bills (sometimes put together), and is just plain not feasible for the POOR. Doesn't matter how good or bad with money you are, if there is no opportunity to make money, you do what you can, and $42.50 a week really is a stretch.
And even on a two year timescale, those rainy days are almost sure to come more frequently than the rainy day fund can handle. The math just doesn't work with the price of damn near everything what it is, and demand is already in the toilet because people can't afford to spend.
2014-04-08 03:31:01 PM  
1 votes:
Poor people have poor ways.
2014-04-08 03:16:50 PM  
1 votes:

radarlove: As for "just applying," it is a little more complicated than that, but I'm making progress. I'm in a very isolated place both physically and mentally, but we're finding a way of working around those issues.


I think the way forward is "fake it until you make it."  You don't have to like it, you don't have to be happy doing it, just pretend like you're happy and do things that a happier person would do.

radarlove: Do I really need it.


Yes.  It's not just me, it's pretty clear the thread consensus is yes.

radarlove: Shouldn't those people who need it the most, those people who are subjugated by a cruel and unfair system that sticks them in the gutter because of their race or gender or age, get first crack at that assistance?


This is a false dichotomy.  For some reason you're imagining if you take the help, that means someone else won't get it.  That's not true at all.  Whether you accept it or not has no bearing on whether or not someone else can get it.

radarlove: You can see why it gets tough to accept something like assistance when these are the questions that run through your head.


Right, so that gets us back to fake it until you make it.  Pretend like you're okay with it, go do it and eventually you'll get through it.  What would you tell someone if the situation were reversed?

radarlove: Don't you dare.


That's solid advice, I agree.  Now what would you do to convince someone that seems impossible to convince?
2014-04-08 03:09:10 PM  
1 votes:

The Missing Link: So you are saying rather than putting food on the table, someone should be paying for internet services?


Internet service can be $30 a month. The time the spend going to and from the library would be better spent on the Internet finding deals at grocery stores, cheap recipes and cooking.

The Internet can pay for itself pretty easily.

This is why anyone saying to get rid of the Internet are fuking idiots.
2014-04-08 02:56:27 PM  
1 votes:

The Missing Link: or taking the bus to the library, they should pay for internet?


Let's do a quick calculation here. Taking the bus to and from the library every day, at a discounted fare of $1 each way. $60 a month. Only weekdays: $40 a month. Cable internet: $35 a month. Paying a neighbor for access to their wireless: $10 a month (or whatever).
2014-04-08 02:36:43 PM  
1 votes:

cptjeff: What if you're working two part time jobs with unpredictable hours and are trying to find a better one?


I worked 3 part time jobs for awhile (Babbages, Blockbuster and a sandwich shop), still would have had an hour to walk to the library and back if I had to. As it was since I had jobs I could afford AOL for internet access (it was the early 90's don't judge me!). Have you ever been in a position like that? I think you have good intentions but it doesn't seem like you are speaking from actual experience.
2014-04-08 02:32:36 PM  
1 votes:

jst3p: Yes, because someone who is unemployed has a hard time finding an hour to check his email.


What if you're working two part time jobs with unpredictable hours and are trying to find a better one?

jst3p: But there are TONS of programs to help them out.


Modest support programs, and they are modest, not to mention incredibly difficult to navigate even if you're educated and know what you're doing, don't make living in poverty easy.

jst3p: In some places low income families can get internet for 10 bucks a month and a $149 voucher for a computer (good enough for a chromebook, I use one and they can do quite a bit).


And internet being a virtual necessity, that's a very good thing. $149 also gets you a pretty decent used machine on e-bay.

The Missing Link: I think the key word here is convenient. We are talking about necessities vs luxuries. By saying something is a convenience you are saying it is a luxury.


You're stunningly clueless, aren't you?
2014-04-08 02:11:33 PM  
1 votes:

lennavan: Lagaidh: lennavan: The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.

The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.

We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.

Actually, this person sounds to me like they've spent time truly thinking about the subject. Many life-long middle class (and higher) folks I've met never think twice about a small luxury. In my own experience, I feel like those who do pinch all types of pennies have spent appreciable time being poor, or are an engineer =)

Be poor long enough and the decisions really do become that black and white easy. Think about how my generation's (GenX) grandparents behaved due to experiencing the Great Depression. Our parents (their kids) sure acted differently in an America of absolute abundance...

I have no doubt he has spent plenty of time thinking about it.  The problem is what he totally imagined doesn't match reality.  He suggests someone perform a job search without internet and a phone.  You gotta be shiatting me with this stuff.  I know he totally imagines going door to door asking for a job works.  I agree, he has thought about how great of a method that would be.  I also have zero doubt he has never actually done it himself.


I'll only mention that I'm a programmer with 12 years' experience (holy shiat when did THAT happen) to say I understand how software is used and created. I will tell you it is most certainly possible to get a job without the internet. Are you thinking about construction? I wired houses for years and never looked up a job posting for an electrician online. I dug ditches. I performed side software development.

He's trying to say that humans can do anything they can think of, even if it is incredibly inconvenient and difficult.

I too marvel at a single race whose members simultaneously include amputees that run marathons and persons claiming that finding a job without the internet is "impossible".
2014-04-08 02:05:21 PM  
1 votes:
My brother took money out of his 401k and bought a Harley.... He doesn't understand why I stopped putting money into college funds for HIS kids after that.
2014-04-08 02:04:59 PM  
1 votes:

radarlove: People's perceptions of me are irrelevant to me.  If they were I wouldn't be posting any of this.  And if that was why I've done what I've done so far, I wouldn't be genuinely contrite when I apologize to those whom I'm taking from.  I simply sincerely do not want to take from people who do not want to give.


I am fortunate enough to make a pretty decent salary. I would rather my tax dollars go to help you out than most of the other crap our government pays for. Imagine all the assistance you get to help you get back on your feet comes from me and people who think like me.

You are welcome.
2014-04-08 02:04:32 PM  
1 votes:

Pincy: It would be nice if people who have enough money would stop telling people who don't what is and isn't a necessity.   Or at least try to picture yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while.


Some people have already decided that if you're poor, that means that you've done something wrong to screw up your own life. They reject the idea that there can be no-fault poorness. If someone is poor, it's obviously their fault that they have cable TV, or internet, or something else, because they should have been smart enough to see the future and know they'd have an unexpected $2K or $5K or $10K bill and if they hadn't been so stupid with their money in the past then they'd be in good shape for the future.

Yes, it's important to have an emergency fund, we can all agree on that. If I live on $1K a month, my 12-month emergency fund is only $12K. That comes out to be a single major home repair or medical bill.

You can't fault poor people for not having significant liquid assets. They're poor, by definition they won't have those things. You have to accept that poor people are fundamentally less economically secure than others. If they weren't we wouldn't call it poor, we'd  call it "making less money".
2014-04-08 01:44:24 PM  
1 votes:

Fubini: TV and the internet both provide general news and emergency alert information. A cell phone or weather radio provide can provide emergency alerts, but can't provide further information or general news, and generally don't cover non-weather emergencies.

That certainly justifies having a TV set, and if you don't get over-the-air programming, it justifies an expenditure on cable TV or internet service.

It's also true that some kind of entertainment is warranted, even for the poorest of the poor. If you get over-the-air TV, or live next to a library or something, then that's great, but not everyone has access to that.



I do not believe "in home entertainment that costs money" is a necessity. Read a library book. Listen to the radio. Play cards. Whittle. People lived for thousands of years without electronic entertainment.

Radio also covers emergencies. I don;t believe for a minute  someone needs a smart phone and cable tv "just in case something happens".

Necessities are food, shelter, medical care, etc. Not cable TV.
2014-04-08 01:32:54 PM  
1 votes:
Good grief. If you are over 40 years old and don't have $2K on hand you have made some poor decisions.

I have two bicycles that are each worth way more than $2K if I had to liquidate something. I wouldn't though since I haven't wasted tens of thousands on kids and cigarettes.
2014-04-08 01:07:44 PM  
1 votes:

Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]


Most journalists are so because they sucked at everything else.  This writer may not realize 2/5 and 4/10 are the same thing. If you want to blow his mind, tell him that is 40%.
2014-04-08 01:04:10 PM  
1 votes:

MadHatter500: Now recompute for $20k per year of income, not $100k.  It's the min wagers that SS is for, not above average incomes.



282,754.89   or $943 a month.

vs

$669.00/mo  from Social security.


♫  Just come on back if you ever wanna try again ♫
2014-04-08 01:03:52 PM  
1 votes:

The Missing Link: If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)


Food, water, shelter are biological necessities. Economic necessity is a secure source of income and social necessity is a reasonable way to understand and interact with the world. Lots of jobs effectively require an internet connection at home, either to apply or to have, and lots of companies and agencies primarily interact with customers through the internet these days.

At the very least, you're at a huge disadvantage if you don't have a reliable internet connection. Think about a person who has to use paper-bound yellow pages to look up phone numbers, call offices, wait to talk to someone in person, etc. That worked great twenty years ago, but the world just isn't organized that way anymore.
2014-04-08 01:00:56 PM  
1 votes:

Fubini: TV and the internet both provide general news and emergency alert information. A cell phone or weather radio provide can provide emergency alerts, but can't provide further information or general news, and generally don't cover non-weather emergencies.


Many many people struggling to get by are looking for more/better jobs so they can pay for shiat.  To do that, you have to apply for jobs.  The main method for applying for jobs these days is the internet.  When an employer is interested in your application/resumé they have to contact you to set up either a phone interview or an in person interview.  How are they going to contact someone who doesn't have internet or phone?

Anyone who doesn't think internet/phone are a necessity these days has never searched for a job.
2014-04-08 12:57:38 PM  
1 votes:

Bullseyed: So 4 in 10 Americans have no TV, video game console, tablet, smart phone, car?


I don't think my 8 year old Vizio, half-broken Wii, tablet that cost $150 new, 3 year old phone, and car nearing a quarter million miles are worth as much as you they are.

Why do old people think everything with an LCD screen can be sold for decent money?

/ Could get $2000 together in about 20 minutes. Just not from selling my nearly worthless shiat.
2014-04-08 12:57:26 PM  
1 votes:

SpectroBoy: I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

TV IS NOT NECESSARY

IT"S ENTERTAINMENT

Wanting something does NOT make it non-negotiable. It just makes you someone who makes bad choices.


TV and the internet both provide general news and emergency alert information. A cell phone or weather radio provide can provide emergency alerts, but can't provide further information or general news, and generally don't cover non-weather emergencies.

That certainly justifies having a TV set, and if you don't get over-the-air programming, it justifies an expenditure on cable TV or internet service.

It's also true that some kind of entertainment is warranted, even for the poorest of the poor. If you get over-the-air TV, or live next to a library or something, then that's great, but not everyone has access to that.
2014-04-08 12:52:55 PM  
1 votes:

Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.


Really?

If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)

This is not hard to comprehend.
2014-04-08 12:49:31 PM  
1 votes:

impaler: If you think cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix are major sources of financial drain, A is probably where you are at.


The little things add up.

If you have no financial buffer for emergencies then even small luxuries are a bad life choice.
2014-04-08 12:45:36 PM  
1 votes:

Fubini: As others have pointed out, TV and internet service are pretty much non-negotiable in this day and age.


I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

TV IS NOT NECESSARY

IT"S ENTERTAINMENT


Wanting something does NOT make it non-negotiable. It just makes you someone who makes bad choices.
2014-04-08 12:41:04 PM  
1 votes:

Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]


People are used to doing things in tens. Ten fingers, ten toes, ten numbers in the decimal system. That is why they use the 4 in 10, even if it is a bad fraction to use.
2014-04-08 12:39:02 PM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.


You poor baby.

Bless your heart.
2014-04-08 12:37:04 PM  
1 votes:

Stibium: $45 a month for unlimited everything is hardly ridiculous.


You do know that people are able to live without any cell phone at all right?

$45 a month for a year is $540. I cheap burner phone with pay as you go would save you most of that money.

It's fine if you want a smart phone and data plan, but if you have one you can't cry poverty. At best you can cry "poor life choices"
2014-04-08 12:34:46 PM  
1 votes:

Delawheredad: Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!


I hear your pain... one of the things I hope that come out of same sex marriages is that when they start getting divorces they are just as vocal about the inequities in the divorce laws as they were in the marriage laws.

Being the bread winner in a marriage ends up making you a slave in divorce... the only reason why I am not paying alimony now is that I saved up all her credit card debt, by just paying the minimum payments, that she amassed in my name after she left (almost 40k) and would only agree to alimony if she was responsible for the debt... she said it would bankrupt her, so I ate it and in return I never have to pay her another dime.
2014-04-08 12:33:09 PM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


Now recompute for $20k per year of income, not $100k.  It's the min wagers that SS is for, not above average incomes.  But you knew that already, and think the poor should starve to death once they're done serving their masters.

Also, your math is wrong - you won't get 12.5%.  You'll get 6.25%.  That guy paying you gets to keep the other 6.25%, and has no reason to give it to you.
2014-04-08 12:31:10 PM  
1 votes:
radarlove:
Take it from someone who did precisely what you're talking about a couple of years ago to get over that "emergency hump"- your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

Truth.

I drastically slimmed down my life a while back.  Not out of monetary necessity, but out of desire to simplify my life.  When all was said and done, what I was able to sell paid for the gas, truck, and postage required to get rid of it all.  I might have made $100.

I could have potentially made maybe $500 total.  And that would be with me investing inordinate amounts of time finding the right buyer for everything.
2014-04-08 12:29:59 PM  
1 votes:

JusticeandIndependence: But it's only $50 a month for satellite.  you can afford that easy.....


A lot of poor rural people have satellite service because it's the only way to get TV or internet (especially since the digital TV switch). By the way, those dishes are practically worthless in the resale market, think $10-$50 worthless.

As others have pointed out, TV and internet service are pretty much non-negotiable in this day and age. I'd sooner get rid of my car than I would get rid of my internet service.
2014-04-08 12:24:28 PM  
1 votes:

doglover: freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000,

Well you are wrong, unless you're trying to fudge numbers. Even without the kids, you've got two adults on $50k per year. It's doable, but only if plan on working until you die or never, ever having any fun.


I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick, but you're still misusing these numbers in a way that does not allow for a useful discussion. The "median household income" includes large numbers of households containing only non-working students and elderly. (I believe non-working elderly make up 14% of all households.) That's going to completely wreck the data.

Even in 2005, when the median household income was about $46,000, the Census reported dual-earner households to have a median income of $67,000. That's a huge difference.  I can't find the charts again, but I am pretty confident that the median was still higher for couples with two children, presumably because having two children tends to screen out very young couples who haven't started their families yet and also don't have much earning power due to a lack of professional experience.

OH HEY: I just found it for 2012.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/

I'm not going to run the national average on that spreadsheet, but even in Kentucky, the median household income for a 4-person family (which may or may not include two working parents) is nearly $68,000. In neighboring Illinois, perhaps a more representative state, it's over $80,000.
2014-04-08 12:15:54 PM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: E5bie:  
 

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on (minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) ,  

To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn' ...


What does healthcare have to do with Social security.   Healthcare is a very complicated issue.

The item being discussed was saving for retirement.

Pointing out that the example was double what the average income was does not have any effect.
Simply divide the result by two.
 with Social Security, your kids get half of zero.

You still get 3x as much and retire 10 years sooner.


Not that it's a huge amount or anyting, but kids do get SS survivor benefits if they're parents die.  It helped good ol' Paul Ryan paid for college, donchaknow.
2014-04-08 12:14:04 PM  
1 votes:
I couldn't come up with 1/10th of that if my life depended on it, lol.

Oy vey.

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


Take it from someone who did precisely what you're talking about a couple of years ago to get over that "emergency hump"- your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

After I lost my job we lived off of savings and my wife's earnings while I looked for more work.  That work never came, and so when the money ran out and things like food and rent were no longer feasible the car was the fist thing to go.  Figured we could walk or bus wherever we needed to travel.  Had bought it from a friend for about a grand a few years earlier, managed to sell it for around $600.  That bought us about a month of rent and painful feet.  At the end of that time we still hadn't made any progress and said, "fark it- everything must go" and had a garage sale.  Sold almost every single thing we owned.  Every wedding present, every nice thing we've ever bought for ourselves or each other, every tool, every device, every appliance.  Came out with about $300.  Not enough to make rent (and we'd already been skipping meals for a while by that time) but enough to get us to her parent's place in a shiatty jobless town in New Mexico.  shiat sort of got worse from there.

But I can't tell you how much simpler maintenance of your life gets when all you own is a change of clothes and a mattress.  So, you know, tiny victories.

I'm beginning to feel like the tatsuma of poverty threads.
2014-04-08 12:09:03 PM  
1 votes:
media-cdn.tripadvisor.com

They don't have shiat to take to the pawn store?  Don't have a car to use for a title loan?  Can't take a cash advance on a credit card?  Don't have a single relative who can give them a loan?

I was paycheck to paycheck for most of my life and I don't think there was a point in my life between 21 and 39 when I didn't have an outstanding debt of some kind (credit card, car loan, etc.) but I could come up with a couple grand within a business day one way or another.  Cash advance, call grandpa, call dad, sell some stuff, get a title loan on the car, etc.  And that's just assuming I stuck to legitimate sources of money.  If it was really life or death, I'd rob the hell out of something or someone.
2014-04-08 12:08:27 PM  
1 votes:
Aren't we all 17 Trillion in debt?
2014-04-08 12:07:40 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.


You're obviously not poor.

A poor person has a car that they bought for less than $1000, a couch that was free or from a thrift store, and a TV they got at Walmart or online for a couple hundred dollars. Chances are that most of their non-essential appliances are in the same boat.
2014-04-08 12:06:47 PM  
1 votes:

whizbangthedirtfarmer: For most people on the lower to lower middle class spectrum, money is a bit of an abstraction, and they develop the habit of easy in, easy out. I was like that when I was a teen (I grew up relatively poor), and it was only in my mid 20s that I started to save up. The kids have 529s with another ten years to go before they need them, we had a sizable down payment on the house, and we have few other big bills. We paid off our cars early, and, yeah, they're older (my wife's car turned 12, mine 7), but they still have zero maintenance attached to them. No, we may not have thermometers and Bluetooth in our cars, but that's a fair tradeoff in order to get our savings built up and our kids' college funds bulked up. So many people, though, can't do with sacrifice. The new PS4 beckons, and so they buy it, even though that's all they had in their account.


Do you mean people are supposed to sacrifice a little in order to save up and have enough money in order to live month to  month?

How can that be? They are entitled to those video games and eating at Macdonalds every day
2014-04-08 12:04:57 PM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


I forget that old people still think a used flat screen is worth more than $200 after a few years.
2014-04-08 12:01:01 PM  
1 votes:

Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick about this, because I know I have been very lucky in life to this point. And whatever success I have managed to enjoy has been only partially attributable to my own efforts, attitudes and commitments.

But still...it needs to be said.

The only reason I spend a couple of hours each day making snarky comments on internet discussion boards is because I can afford to. And if I couldn't, then I wouldn't.


But you are aware that there are many out here on Fark who are not in your position. Some are under-employed some are unemployed (I even suspect some are paid shills but I am not sure how much that shait pays) the point of the article is not that Mr Fabulous is doing well it is that many are not. You seemed to think it was about you.
2014-04-08 11:53:32 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.

The median household income includes students, retirees, singles, etc., and is not representative of families with children.
2014-04-08 11:51:43 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


They take the same 12.5% from mom and dad, no matter what.  No need for names.

I'm suggesting someone is stealing from mom and dad.  They are just being told it is good for them.
2014-04-08 11:46:47 AM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.


The car?  Sure.  That'd be the #1 asset for millions of Americans.  Of course, a lot couldn't readily sell it for much more than they have on the note.

The flat-screen TV?  The 40-50" TVs the middle-class have are $350 or so brand new at Best Buy.  They might get $150 on Craigslist
The couch?  Either they got it used or they're still paying it off.  In any event, dozens of couches are $125 or less on Craigslist in my town.  Hell, a not insignificant number are free.
Bike?  Again, Walmart/Target sell a lot more of them than proper bike shops.  And Walmart/Target bikes ain't worth poop.  $50 at most.  If they did buy a semi-quality Specialized or Trek... $100-150 used.

So, car, yes, that would be the "thing they could sell".  All the other trinkets?  Are pretty much rounding errors in terms of realizable value.
2014-04-08 11:44:53 AM  
1 votes:
Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.
2014-04-08 11:41:28 AM  
1 votes:
Yeah, a lot of people wiped out/lost all their reserves surviving the Bush recession.
2014-04-08 11:35:28 AM  
1 votes:
The entitlement mentality in this thread has exceeded my ability to comprehend.

My daughter is 22, a recent college graduate, and could come up with 2K (cash) on her way home from work if she had to.  Ya know why?  She <GASP> works two jobs to support herself.  One full-time, and one part.  Know why else?  While she does have a smart phone, she also doesn't spend all day playing games and posting to fark whining about her life.  She's too busy working to improve it because she understands that a career has to be built.  It doesn't just get handed to you because you were born.

/   If anyone wants to know the average intellect of the typical farker, all you have to do is look at the post-count in EVERY 'wrestling' thread as opposed to all the other threads combined.
//  "Something other than wrestling happened".  0 to maybe 400.
///  RASSLIN' = Eleventy Brazilian.
2014-04-08 11:21:30 AM  
1 votes:
I'd loan money to friends if I knew them well and could get some sort of collateral.

Amusingly enough, I just got through coaching my kids that there are no such things as "loans between friends"

There's either gifts, with no expectation of ever getting anything back, or soon-to-be-ex-friends with your money they'll never repay.

Later, when they're a bit older, we'll go over the whole "collateral" thing and talk about compound interest.  For the next few years, that rule will work just fine.  Yesterday one of them bought their friend a school lunch when they forgot to bring theirs, just as a gift.  Way to go, they understood me, I'm very proud.
2014-04-08 11:20:51 AM  
1 votes:
There are many instances (not all, but many) where this is the fault of stupid Americans.  Dumbasses that decided that it was ok to keep spending beyond their means, or other dumbasses that thought that they didn't need an education to succeed in this world.  Or the other dumbasses that did the house-flipping thing to the point that they never thought the bubble would pop.

It's a real simple lesson to learn:  When you need money and don't have money, it sucks.  When you make money every week/month, but then spend all of your money on stupid shiat, and don't save any money, you end up not having money when you need money.

What's killing many in this country is the large amounts of credit card debt.  You gotta pay for it eventually, and paying cost + 18-25% every month is the stupidest of all the forms of stupid.  I get that nobody can pull $20,000 out of their ass for a car or more than that for a house, but other than that, there's really no reason whatsoever to go into debt to anyone, let alone a credit card company.
2014-04-08 11:13:03 AM  
1 votes:

Cold_Sassy: Gotta agree with this.  I don't have cable TV, or a smart phone and it's accompanying ridiculous fees and just by eliminating those two things, you too, could easily come up with $2,000.00.


When I finally figured out I needed to budget a few years ago, the first thing to get cut was the cable and phone.  Dropping the digital package and going to just-Internet and basic cable (cheaper than without any cable package) took my bill from $110 to $50.  Dropping my AT&T contract and switching to Virgin Mobile dropped my bill from $85 to $25.

Not counting any other re-prioritization, that was an extra $120 per month to put away.

15% of Americans live in poverty.  The remaining 25% are doing it wrong.
2014-04-08 11:05:36 AM  
1 votes:
I'm poor and I could come up with 2k if I had to.  I would go to prison afterwards, but yea $2k wouldnt be an issue.

One of you would be out $2k though.
2014-04-08 11:04:54 AM  
1 votes:

SpectroBoy: PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

I sort of agree on that but the data plan quickly gets more expensive than the phone.

And libraries have free computers too.


Gotta agree with this.  I don't have cable TV, or a smart phone and it's accompanying ridiculous fees and just by eliminating those two things, you too, could easily come up with $2,000.00.
2014-04-08 11:01:42 AM  
1 votes:

SordidEuphemism: Count me among that number.

If I liquidated all my assets, including my car, furniture, and the box of computer parts in the garage, I might be able to get 2000 if I had to have the cash today.

I'm thankful every day for the insurance plan that keeps the kids healthy.


See my wife and I had a slightly different financial plan. We didn't have kids until we had a good $20k of liquid assets in case of emergency.

12 in one hand... etc
2014-04-08 10:58:03 AM  
1 votes:
Why is this sad? I say it depends on the demographics the question was asked to. I mean are we talking about a bunch of 20 yr olds or a bunch of 50 yr olds? if the latter than yes sad indeed but 20 yr olds...not only is it not sad but to the contrary and actually amazing if 40% of 20 yr olds can come up with $2K on a whim. I sure as heck couldn't when I was 20 or even at 25 w/o borrowing.

If it's evenly spread across the board across all racial, social and age groups than 40% is probably 'normal'.

Article is a false flag and sensationalism for the sake of sensationalism. If you want to find root cause you need to dive deeper and more granular. Break it down by age groups, by race, geography and other factors instead of just a blanket 40% of Americans.
2014-04-08 10:57:26 AM  
1 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.


This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"
2014-04-08 10:53:37 AM  
1 votes:
If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.
2014-04-08 10:52:38 AM  
1 votes:

PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.


Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.
2014-04-08 10:50:25 AM  
1 votes:

PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.



computerized applications are much easier to delete than a bunch of paper applications.  its much more convenient.
2014-04-08 10:48:10 AM  
1 votes:

Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.


Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.
2014-04-08 10:47:44 AM  
1 votes:

hej: What, are they too lazy to rob a bank, too?



the bank is robbing them.  most just don't know it.
2014-04-08 10:47:08 AM  
1 votes:

Dimensio: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


Only if you put careful thought into whom to burgle.  I mean, 40% of us can't come up with that much to save our lives.
2014-04-08 10:46:24 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.



lol.   maybe we should ask some folks where all that middle/working class wealth went these last few years??   methinks, no, meknows it went upstream to its owners where it belongs.
2014-04-08 10:44:41 AM  
1 votes:

SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.


I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.
2014-04-08 10:43:00 AM  
1 votes:
Failure to raise $2000 for a down payment on an attorney causes students and young adults to plead guilty in cases where they really shouldn't.  Over their lifetime this simple mistake will lower their lifetime earning potential by several hundred thousand dollars.  The mistake is magnified when you consider that they probably COULD have sold their car or borrowed the $2000 from GrandMa if they were not embarrassed to admit they got busted with drugs or for petty theft.
2014-04-08 10:38:05 AM  
1 votes:

ZAZ: Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.

Thank god ABC took a two year old story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.


Just curious, how much has your salary increased in the past two years?  Things keep getting more and more expensive, yet employers don't want to seem to shell out any raise money.  It's not just me, it's the entire staff at the company for whom I work.
2014-04-08 10:27:29 AM  
1 votes:

The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.


dilbert.com
2014-04-08 10:27:21 AM  
1 votes:
This should make our elected officials nervous.
2014-04-08 10:20:49 AM  
1 votes:
I couldn't come up with $2,000 on the spot, generally speaking, but if my life depended on it, damn straight I would find a way.
2014-04-08 10:17:15 AM  
1 votes:

SlothB77: Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

well, if the option is sell your car or bike or die right now, does the future really matter?


No it doesn't. Which is why:

Dimensio: In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.

2014-04-08 10:02:47 AM  
1 votes:
Poor people shouldn't be allowed to own "flat screen" TVs. They should be forced to buy those tube televisions they don't even sell anymore.
2014-04-08 09:56:38 AM  
1 votes:
images2.dailykos.com

"I don't understand. They can just borrow a small amount from their parents!?"
2014-04-08 09:47:13 AM  
1 votes:
I have been like this for all the thirty years of my adult life... until this year. Now I have no debt other than a mortgage and that should be gone this year as well and I should have about a years pay left over

yay me
2014-04-08 09:24:19 AM  
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: *raises hand*

/yeah... I'm screwed


I was like this a few years ago. I had an old etrade account with an old rollover IRA (all of $1000) and discovered I could automatically transfer money in, so I did like $30 once a week.  You won't notice it's gone (hopefully) and next thing you know you have a bit of money in there.  There were a few times where it saved my bacon, but it takes a few days to transfer back so it's great to protect against impulse buys.
 
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