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(ABC)   Americans are in such lousy financial shape that 4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000 if their lives depended on it   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 424
    More: Sad, Americans, Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Pew Charitable Trusts, Sufis, confidence interval  
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6743 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2014 at 10:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



424 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-08 11:16:38 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k


The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?
 
2014-04-08 11:16:53 AM  

SevenizGud: Then let's do the environment some good, and demand an immediate $2,000 tax payment for carbon offset, with lives depending on it.

We could stand to lose about 40M slacker loser parasite pieces of shiat around here. We would lose the anchors and albatrosses around our necks, and nothing of value.


You know who else wanted to kill 40M people he didn't like?
 
2014-04-08 11:20:51 AM  
There are many instances (not all, but many) where this is the fault of stupid Americans.  Dumbasses that decided that it was ok to keep spending beyond their means, or other dumbasses that thought that they didn't need an education to succeed in this world.  Or the other dumbasses that did the house-flipping thing to the point that they never thought the bubble would pop.

It's a real simple lesson to learn:  When you need money and don't have money, it sucks.  When you make money every week/month, but then spend all of your money on stupid shiat, and don't save any money, you end up not having money when you need money.

What's killing many in this country is the large amounts of credit card debt.  You gotta pay for it eventually, and paying cost + 18-25% every month is the stupidest of all the forms of stupid.  I get that nobody can pull $20,000 out of their ass for a car or more than that for a house, but other than that, there's really no reason whatsoever to go into debt to anyone, let alone a credit card company.
 
2014-04-08 11:21:25 AM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


The average US Household only 2.6 people.. so 2 parents and half of a kid.

$51k isn't that bad for most areas of the country in that situation
 
2014-04-08 11:21:30 AM  
I'd loan money to friends if I knew them well and could get some sort of collateral.

Amusingly enough, I just got through coaching my kids that there are no such things as "loans between friends"

There's either gifts, with no expectation of ever getting anything back, or soon-to-be-ex-friends with your money they'll never repay.

Later, when they're a bit older, we'll go over the whole "collateral" thing and talk about compound interest.  For the next few years, that rule will work just fine.  Yesterday one of them bought their friend a school lunch when they forgot to bring theirs, just as a gift.  Way to go, they understood me, I'm very proud.
 
2014-04-08 11:21:38 AM  

Clever Neologism: In case the powers that be haven't figured it out: there's damn near no more blood to be squeezed out of the middle and lower classes... they are already on razor thin margins as it is.


And then we are blamed and judged for it being that bad, too.
 
2014-04-08 11:21:54 AM  
in other words 4 out of 10 americans are retarded... 2000 is not really that much....
 
2014-04-08 11:22:38 AM  

Serious Black: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


My primary transportation? an extremely well worn 6 cylinder powered Chevy II Nova station wagon that I paid $200 for, God knows how many years ago. It has to have easily over 1/4 million miles on it by now, but it gets me to point A and point B amazingly reliably. I can't afford to replace it under today's Obama economy. At least my registration is super cheap and it's exempt from inspections.
 
2014-04-08 11:23:47 AM  
Well, this sucks. Most of my extended family is there (unable to come up with $2k).

I'm lucky that our household is not there. One more mortgage payment and we're done. Financially, everything looks great, including kids' college savings, retirement, liquid savings, good cars, etc.

Guess who still watches TV on a CRT. I'm actually the only one in my family not watching TV in HD. We certainly didn't spend our way into our situation. Blessed to have good jobs as well.
 
2014-04-08 11:24:00 AM  

Cold_Sassy: SpectroBoy: PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

I sort of agree on that but the data plan quickly gets more expensive than the phone.

And libraries have free computers too.

Gotta agree with this.  I don't have cable TV, or a smart phone and it's accompanying ridiculous fees and just by eliminating those two things, you too, could easily come up with $2,000.00.


$45 a month for unlimited everything is hardly ridiculous.

You guys make it way too easy to tell if you are part of the 4 or the 6.
 
2014-04-08 11:24:16 AM  
My in-laws seem to be pretty well-off.  If I need 2 large, I'll just dose some of that fast-acting cancer powder into their metamucil.
 
2014-04-08 11:24:39 AM  
Not after paying personal property taxes yesterday...


/I could sell a few items for some quick cash but not for the value I have in them.
 
2014-04-08 11:27:18 AM  

sandi_fish: I just had a friend (who I haven't really talked to in years) ask to borrow $500.00.  I felt so bad telling her "no" because I knew it would ruin our friendship and be awkward.  It makes me feel bad to say no, but I'd feel worse asking for it back.


I never loan money to friends. I will give it to them, though. And I always tell them if they ever feel that they need to pay me back I will accept their money as a gift. It keeps the "loan" from becoming an issue in the friendship, and it also limits how much I'm willing to give since I know once it's gone, it's gone.
 
2014-04-08 11:27:28 AM  

kab: If only poor people would stop buying stuff, it would fix everything, including unemployment!


Fun fact: conservative fiscal policy suggests they believe that if you give a rich person a $1,000,000 tax break that they hoard because they had no use for it, it will benefit the economy more than if you raise a poor person's wage by $1500 a year and they spend all of it on things they need.
 
2014-04-08 11:29:22 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: I won't make wild accusations.  I'll just CSB for you.

I was there, broke, living paycheck to paycheck, sometimes borrowing from a future paycheck just to have money now to pay bills I thought I couldn't pay.   One day I woke up and said I can't do this anymore.  I stopped going out if I didn't really have the money.  I stopped all the extras that I really didn't need.  I put myself on a budget.  I sold some stuff and paid the lowest balance credit cards first just to feel better about my situation.  Then I just kept working to pay off stuff one at a time.

10 years later I have a better job, money in the bank, more money in another bank, a new house, money to blow on fun things,  only two credit cards with zero balance on them,  and still following a budget.

It takes some sacrifice, but you can do it.  I know, I've been there.

WRITE IT DOWN.  Just shutup with the excuses and WRITE IT DOWN.  You'd be surprised at the amount you piss away and not know it.


This is what helped me get out of debt.  I kept an Excel spreadsheet of the budget.  Something like

Current Balance, Paychecks In, bills, CC1, CC2, CC3, CC4, Car, remainder (food and fun)

Bills just had to be paid and I started with the lowest credit cards first.  Writing it down month by month actually got me excited because I could see "Hey, in 4 months I pay this one then I put cc1 to cc2, holy shiat! I can pay off CC2 8 months after that!" and so on.  It gave me the light at the end of the tunnel.  By the time i focused on the car I was paying basically double payments and paid it off in 3 years instead of 5, which was good cuz my interest rate was criminal because my credit was so terrible (22-23% can't remember which).  Oh and I also forced myself to put money in savings (and not touch it except for emergencies or unexpected expenses).  Might have just been $25 a month to start.  I tried to balance increasing my savings as I paid off debt so that I kept building myself a bigger cushion.  Come to think of it this was almost exactly 10 years ago for me as well.  Same deal, now I've got a house, 3 months emergency savings, 401k, and other investments.  Sadly, I'm so far the only one in my immediate family who has learned this lesson.
 
2014-04-08 11:29:37 AM  
Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.
(Invest: You give them some money, they almost promise to give it back to you later.)

So you are not a dumbass, (90% of the American public are extreme dumbasses) and you make 100k (more than twice the median household income) just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on
(minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.

Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn't give my kiddo's a huge perverse incentive to poison my Sanka.
 
2014-04-08 11:31:01 AM  
I can get $2000, but I'll have to lay low for a while.

/warn me if you hear sirens.
 
2014-04-08 11:34:06 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.

This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"


It's illegal for somebody paying off a bankruptcy to have savings like that.  If I could set $85 every two weeks aside I could add an additional $170 a month to the payment schedule.  I wish I had that kind of extra money available.  It would take a few months off the back end.  After that's all paid off then I get to save money.  A lot of money.  Enough for a down payment on a house in just a couple of years.  But until then, savings means having a couple hundred in the bank at the end of the month and that's it.  Everything else is gone.

And no, the bankruptcy wasn't due to excessive spending on my part.  My ex-wife didn't pay her part of the debts after we were divorced.  She lied, I was sued for the money and socked with thousands of extra debt.  More legal bullshiat has to happen before I can get that money back.
 
2014-04-08 11:35:24 AM  
Strange, Republicans and Libertarians keep saying that individuals should have total control of their money, because they know better how to handle it than the government. And yet it appears that if we did dump SS/Medicare/etc there would be millions that would have to work until they died just to make ends meet, or end up starving on the street.
 
2014-04-08 11:35:28 AM  
The entitlement mentality in this thread has exceeded my ability to comprehend.

My daughter is 22, a recent college graduate, and could come up with 2K (cash) on her way home from work if she had to.  Ya know why?  She <GASP> works two jobs to support herself.  One full-time, and one part.  Know why else?  While she does have a smart phone, she also doesn't spend all day playing games and posting to fark whining about her life.  She's too busy working to improve it because she understands that a career has to be built.  It doesn't just get handed to you because you were born.

/   If anyone wants to know the average intellect of the typical farker, all you have to do is look at the post-count in EVERY 'wrestling' thread as opposed to all the other threads combined.
//  "Something other than wrestling happened".  0 to maybe 400.
///  RASSLIN' = Eleventy Brazilian.
 
2014-04-08 11:36:29 AM  

SurfaceTension: sandi_fish: I just had a friend (who I haven't really talked to in years) ask to borrow $500.00.  I felt so bad telling her "no" because I knew it would ruin our friendship and be awkward.  It makes me feel bad to say no, but I'd feel worse asking for it back.

I never loan money to friends. I will give it to them, though. And I always tell them if they ever feel that they need to pay me back I will accept their money as a gift. It keeps the "loan" from becoming an issue in the friendship, and it also limits how much I'm willing to give since I know once it's gone, it's gone.


I agree, that is how you would have to treat it.  Since we had not really talked in awhile, I didn't feel the need to give her that. Knowing the financial position she was in, she would not likely be able to give it back.
 
2014-04-08 11:36:51 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Strange, Republicans and Libertarians keep saying that individuals should have total control of their money, because they know better how to handle it than the government. And yet it appears that if we did dump SS/Medicare/etc there would be millions that would have to work until they died just to make ends meet, or end up starving on the street.


Strange we spend billions and billions on government programs and people are still poor and still need to work their whole lives just to make ends meet
 
2014-04-08 11:38:36 AM  

MugzyBrown: doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?

The average US Household only 2.6 people.. so 2 parents and half of a kid.

$51k isn't that bad for most areas of the country in that situation


He don't eat much and occasionally gets a job as a beggar in stage productions of Oliver Twist.
 
2014-04-08 11:39:06 AM  
I'm this close...


i188.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-08 11:40:57 AM  
I really hate to sound like a complete dick about this, because I know I have been very lucky in life to this point. And whatever success I have managed to enjoy has been only partially attributable to my own efforts, attitudes and commitments.

But still...it needs to be said.

The only reason I spend a couple of hours each day making snarky comments on internet discussion boards is because I can afford to. And if I couldn't, then I wouldn't.
 
2014-04-08 11:41:28 AM  
Yeah, a lot of people wiped out/lost all their reserves surviving the Bush recession.
 
2014-04-08 11:42:15 AM  

naughtyrev: Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.


More Americans will probably see it this way.
 
2014-04-08 11:42:36 AM  
This is why we don't have a thriving kidnap and ransom economy in the United States.
 
2014-04-08 11:43:20 AM  

KeatingFive: Yeah, a lot of people wiped out/lost all their reserves surviving the Bush recession.


Frizbone: I can't afford to replace it under today's Obama economy.


IT'S SOMEONE ELSES FAULT!
 
2014-04-08 11:44:53 AM  
Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.
 
2014-04-08 11:45:07 AM  

lennavan: It's no different than all the diet gurus. People know what to do, they know how to do it, they just need their ass kicked hard enough to go do it. Spend less than you make. Eat less than you burn. The rest is just gimmicky bullshiat.


I strongly agree with both of those statements.    The thing about the household fund of $1.5K is that it is the approximate amount of a household emergency.  If you have the cash handy, when your car needs new wheel bearings, or you hot water heater dies, you have it covered.   You don't have to dig deeper into the hole that you're digging out of.  It allows you to manage instead of react.
 
2014-04-08 11:45:57 AM  

Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick


I call bullshiat on that statement :)
 
2014-04-08 11:46:47 AM  

SlothB77: doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.


The car?  Sure.  That'd be the #1 asset for millions of Americans.  Of course, a lot couldn't readily sell it for much more than they have on the note.

The flat-screen TV?  The 40-50" TVs the middle-class have are $350 or so brand new at Best Buy.  They might get $150 on Craigslist
The couch?  Either they got it used or they're still paying it off.  In any event, dozens of couches are $125 or less on Craigslist in my town.  Hell, a not insignificant number are free.
Bike?  Again, Walmart/Target sell a lot more of them than proper bike shops.  And Walmart/Target bikes ain't worth poop.  $50 at most.  If they did buy a semi-quality Specialized or Trek... $100-150 used.

So, car, yes, that would be the "thing they could sell".  All the other trinkets?  Are pretty much rounding errors in terms of realizable value.
 
2014-04-08 11:47:29 AM  
trotsky:
Saw a documentary on Housing Projects in the '60s. Very interesting. Basically it was a Republicans wet dream. If the family had a man who was of working age, he couldn't live with the family. That's right, they would separate families. Control was absolute, you were not allowed to have TVs or much of anything that would make you not poor.


The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.  All he has to do is show up after 10pm, after the kids are in bed.  That is no way to promote a work ethic.
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

even that aside.  If he actually had a job, it would be money into the household, which means less money is going to mom, because her current benefits were based on her saying she had no money.
So letting him stay there, costs her money.  Can she count on him giving her the money every 2 weeks?
 
2014-04-08 11:48:22 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


Don't post numbers in a liberal forum, drives them nuts. Government knows best. People should not be allowed to take care of themselves, it is not fair.
 
2014-04-08 11:49:24 AM  

lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.


Can I get that deal without having to vote (R)?
 
2014-04-08 11:49:27 AM  

BigChad: I'm this close...


[i188.photobucket.com image 750x600]


you were supposed to ask...

/isn't that the supposed to ask kid?
 
2014-04-08 11:49:45 AM  

Thunderpipes: Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.


You realize that not even communist China does this, right?  You must by in PRK.  Did you have sawdust or dirt for lunch?
 
2014-04-08 11:50:33 AM  
Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

Different people have different situations, obviously, but this is exactly why I deliberately moved to a small city with a viable bus system when I was just starting out.  I knew I was poor and a car was a mouth to feed. It probably saved me about $40,000 between the time I moved out of my dad's house and the day I finally bought another car with an income over $75k.

If you haven't done something that's already cornered you, it's a good decision when you're young.
 
2014-04-08 11:51:43 AM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


They take the same 12.5% from mom and dad, no matter what.  No need for names.

I'm suggesting someone is stealing from mom and dad.  They are just being told it is good for them.
 
2014-04-08 11:51:51 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.


Yes. This is totally the majority of all people.

Keep farking that chicken.


thecount.com
 
2014-04-08 11:52:01 AM  

Carn: Thunderpipes: Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.

You realize that not even communist China does this, right?  You must by in PRK.  Did you have sawdust or dirt for lunch?


Alternative Minimum Income Tax Credit.  But no, I plan on a nice turkey sub from Sheetz.
 
2014-04-08 11:53:32 AM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.

The median household income includes students, retirees, singles, etc., and is not representative of families with children.
 
2014-04-08 11:53:46 AM  

BMFPitt: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

Can I get that deal without having to vote (R)?


God how I would love to be able to opt out of SS/Medicare.  Hell I would just take my 7% instead of the whole 14% if I had to to get out.
 
2014-04-08 11:54:09 AM  

Gary-L: Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick

I call bullshiat on that statement :)


No, I really did feel badly about saying that. But I still think it needed to be said.
 
2014-04-08 11:55:07 AM  
For most people on the lower to lower middle class spectrum, money is a bit of an abstraction, and they develop the habit of easy in, easy out.  I was like that when I was a teen (I grew up relatively poor), and it was only in my mid 20s that I started to save up. The kids have 529s with another ten years to go before they need them, we had a sizable down payment on the house, and we have few other big bills.  We paid off our cars early, and, yeah, they're older (my wife's car turned 12, mine 7), but they still have zero maintenance attached to them.  No, we may not have thermometers and Bluetooth in our cars, but that's a fair tradeoff in order to get our savings built up and our kids' college funds bulked up.  So many people, though, can't do with sacrifice.  The new PS4 beckons, and so they buy it, even though that's all they had in their account.
 
2014-04-08 11:57:06 AM  

freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.


You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011
 
2014-04-08 11:57:34 AM  
"Will they eat cake with the $2,000?"

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-08 11:57:50 AM  
Shouldn't have gotten that BA in Poetry then


/Engineer
//3 year out of school, make more than is reasonable
///saving+investing it
////engunears r gud at maff
 
2014-04-08 11:57:53 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011


You're not good at reading.
 
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  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

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