Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(ABC)   Americans are in such lousy financial shape that 4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000 if their lives depended on it   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 424
    More: Sad, Americans, Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Pew Charitable Trusts, Sufis, confidence interval  
•       •       •

6743 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2014 at 10:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



424 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-08 08:54:18 AM  
Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.
 
2014-04-08 08:56:37 AM  
Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.
 
2014-04-08 09:02:48 AM  
Those four in ten are simply too greedy to sell off a few stocks.
 
2014-04-08 09:06:36 AM  
Of my ten closest friends, I believe at least seven of them would be unable to come up with $2,000 right now. One of the other three would probably have to tap their entire liquid savings to do it.
 
2014-04-08 09:11:48 AM  
*raises hand*

/yeah... I'm screwed
 
2014-04-08 09:24:19 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: *raises hand*

/yeah... I'm screwed


I was like this a few years ago. I had an old etrade account with an old rollover IRA (all of $1000) and discovered I could automatically transfer money in, so I did like $30 once a week.  You won't notice it's gone (hopefully) and next thing you know you have a bit of money in there.  There were a few times where it saved my bacon, but it takes a few days to transfer back so it's great to protect against impulse buys.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-04-08 09:45:20 AM  
Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.

Thank god ABC took a two year old story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.
 
2014-04-08 09:47:13 AM  
I have been like this for all the thirty years of my adult life... until this year. Now I have no debt other than a mortgage and that should be gone this year as well and I should have about a years pay left over

yay me
 
2014-04-08 09:52:54 AM  
I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.
 
2014-04-08 09:56:38 AM  
images2.dailykos.com

"I don't understand. They can just borrow a small amount from their parents!?"
 
2014-04-08 09:57:03 AM  

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?
 
2014-04-08 09:58:54 AM  
vitaminw.co
"Woah let me stop you there. Have you maxed out your credit cards yet?"
 
2014-04-08 09:59:41 AM  
I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.
 
2014-04-08 10:02:47 AM  
Poor people shouldn't be allowed to own "flat screen" TVs. They should be forced to buy those tube televisions they don't even sell anymore.
 
2014-04-08 10:08:35 AM  

Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


well, if the option is sell your car or bike or die right now, does the future really matter?
 
2014-04-08 10:09:10 AM  
also, I dnrtfa.
 
2014-04-08 10:11:32 AM  

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.
 
2014-04-08 10:17:15 AM  

SlothB77: Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

well, if the option is sell your car or bike or die right now, does the future really matter?


No it doesn't. Which is why:

Dimensio: In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.

 
2014-04-08 10:17:21 AM  

Dimensio: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


That's stupid. You can probably get credit cards on the internet for like 10 cents a pop. Cybertheft is the new rage and doesn't carry as hefty a prison term as armed robbery.
 
hej
2014-04-08 10:19:29 AM  
What, are they too lazy to rob a bank, too?
 
2014-04-08 10:20:03 AM  
And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.
 
2014-04-08 10:20:10 AM  
I would need about three or four days to come up with it, a couple of grand. But a toe, I can get you a toe in an hour.
 
2014-04-08 10:20:49 AM  
I couldn't come up with $2,000 on the spot, generally speaking, but if my life depended on it, damn straight I would find a way.
 
2014-04-08 10:21:06 AM  

Serious Black: Of my ten closest friends, I believe at least seven of them would be unable to come up with $2,000 right now. One of the other three would probably have to tap their entire liquid savings to do it.


If I were fired today I could live for about 7-10yrs with no change in lifestyle. I realize I'm an exception to the rule. Most of my friends are dirt poor but then again, I hang with hot broke college girls.

/gym
/26 minutes etc
 
2014-04-08 10:21:39 AM  

doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.


Why are you so defensive about a simple statement of fact?
 
2014-04-08 10:22:36 AM  
Maybe they could sell their 'Dubs and their gold tooth dispaly, and cut back on the tats.
 
2014-04-08 10:22:39 AM  
www.mamascritics.com
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.
 
2014-04-08 10:22:44 AM  

bdub77: You can probably get credit cards on the internet for like 10 cents a pop.


That's one hell of a flexible "you" right there, buddy.
 
2014-04-08 10:23:03 AM  

sigdiamond2000: my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.


Oooh, that's a nice simile.
 
2014-04-08 10:24:10 AM  

GoldSpider: doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.

Why are you so defensive about a simple statement of fact?


I think your sarcasm meter is broken.
 
2014-04-08 10:25:34 AM  
I have about 250k I could pull out and still be debt free.

I know people my age who've worked the same jobs as me and have made as much or more, and can't seem to save a dime of it, so unless you've got mental disabilities, there is no reason you couldn't have worked and saved or invested money in a way to grow it and have some for a rainy day unless you've made some poor life choices, and let's face it.....4 in 10 Americans usually do make some pretty lousy life choices.
 
2014-04-08 10:27:21 AM  
This should make our elected officials nervous.
 
2014-04-08 10:27:29 AM  

The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.


dilbert.com
 
2014-04-08 10:28:16 AM  

GoldSpider: doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.

Why are you so defensive about a simple statement of fact?


Because being poor is a moral failing. If they just ate beans and lived in shared apartments, they could save up enough to get out their situations. The free market rewards hard work and innovation. Look at all the money Nikola Tesla made from his billion dollar patent portfolio.
 
2014-04-08 10:30:32 AM  
More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.
 
2014-04-08 10:30:41 AM  

fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.


Haven't listen to him in awhile but, in my opinion, he only got nutty around the Jesus stuff which he seemed to try to keep to minimum.   Most of his financial advice seemed pretty spot on for people struggling with money.  It took me awhile to get Mrs. Physt on board with the program but we paid off $38K in debt in less than a year and haven't looked back. Life has certainly gotten easier since we simplified all the bills as well.

Dave does a pretty good job of "reparenting" for people that are acting childish about money.  I love to hear him kick ass when someone making $25K a year is driving around in a $30K truck when he's got bills to pay.
 
2014-04-08 10:32:00 AM  

svanmeter: This should make our elected officials nervous.


Nah, they're fine.

cloudfront.mediamatters.org

doglover: If they just ate beans and lived in shared apartments, they could save up enough to get out their situations.


The funny thing is, your sarcasm works on multiple levels. If they really did try to get into hostel-type living arrangements and the whole thing took off, landlords would just jack up the rates or buy laws making it illegal for more than two unrelated person to live together in a single residence.

/ it's almost like something is draining the pockets of the low and middle working classes
// like... like some sort of upward trickling effect centered on people without the means to fight back
 
2014-04-08 10:32:01 AM  

The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.


4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]
 
2014-04-08 10:33:20 AM  

skozlaw: The funny thing is, your sarcasm works on multiple levels.


I totally didn't know that.

;)
 
2014-04-08 10:33:28 AM  
Wages have fallen and prices have risen to the point where Americans are in such lousy financial shape that 4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000 if their lives depended on it.

Fixed that for you Wall Street.
 
2014-04-08 10:33:59 AM  

physt: fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.

Haven't listen to him in awhile but, in my opinion, he only got nutty around the Jesus stuff which he seemed to try to keep to minimum.   Most of his financial advice seemed pretty spot on for people struggling with money.  It took me awhile to get Mrs. Physt on board with the program but we paid off $38K in debt in less than a year and haven't looked back. Life has certainly gotten easier since we simplified all the bills as well.

Dave does a pretty good job of "reparenting" for people that are acting childish about money.  I love to hear him kick ass when someone making $25K a year is driving around in a $30K truck when he's got bills to pay.


It's no different than all the diet gurus.  People know what to do, they know how to do it, they just need their ass kicked hard enough to go do it.  Spend less than you make.  Eat less than you burn.  The rest is just gimmicky bullshiat.
 
2014-04-08 10:33:59 AM  
If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.
 
2014-04-08 10:35:41 AM  
We're by no means well off, but we are pretty careful with our spending. We could come up with $2k but it would pretty much wipe out the accounts until the next paycheck rolled around. I've been there before where an unexpected expense of $300 or so caused a ton of pain, and don't want to be there again if at all possible, so I try to keep a $2k or so buffer in there.

What would really be nice is to be at a point where I could put some real money away.
 
2014-04-08 10:38:05 AM  

ZAZ: Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.

Thank god ABC took a two year old story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.


Just curious, how much has your salary increased in the past two years?  Things keep getting more and more expensive, yet employers don't want to seem to shell out any raise money.  It's not just me, it's the entire staff at the company for whom I work.
 
2014-04-08 10:38:17 AM  

Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]


Fractions speak louder than words
 
2014-04-08 10:38:25 AM  

SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.


Although I don't have any of the things mentioned in your hint, I have to admit that both A and B apply to me and yes, B is the main factor in A. My only 'luxury' is my 3mb DSL connection, which I think would actually end up costing me more if I didn't have it.
 
2014-04-08 10:39:11 AM  

SlothB77: also, I dnrtfa.


That's on your family crest.
 
2014-04-08 10:40:06 AM  
Gee, I wonder why?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11098797/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/ us -savings-rate-hits-lowest-level/#.U0QJlPldWzk

In 2006, 2 years before the Great Recession, American's already had a negative savings rate over the year.

In case the powers that be haven't figured it out: there's damn near no more blood to be squeezed out of the middle and lower classes... they are already on razor thin margins as it is.
 
2014-04-08 10:40:45 AM  
Well my bank only allows $1000 per day withdrawal from savings at an ATM so I would have to get into a branch to get $2000 in one day.

I'm part of the 60%
 
2014-04-08 10:42:15 AM  
I was like this until about 33 or 34, and that seems pretty common.  Another reason to not start a family until then.
 
2014-04-08 10:43:00 AM  
Failure to raise $2000 for a down payment on an attorney causes students and young adults to plead guilty in cases where they really shouldn't.  Over their lifetime this simple mistake will lower their lifetime earning potential by several hundred thousand dollars.  The mistake is magnified when you consider that they probably COULD have sold their car or borrowed the $2000 from GrandMa if they were not embarrassed to admit they got busted with drugs or for petty theft.
 
2014-04-08 10:43:11 AM  
i512.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-08 10:43:14 AM  

Wasilla Hillbilly: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

Although I don't have any of the things mentioned in your hint, I have to admit that both A and B apply to me and yes, B is the main factor in A. My only 'luxury' is my 3mb DSL connection, which I think would actually end up costing me more if I didn't have it.



I purposely didn't list an internet connection. Having internet can save people a tons of money shopping and also helps with finding a job (or doing a job). I sort of consider internet a staple at this point. It's hard to be a part of society without it.
 
2014-04-08 10:43:30 AM  
I need to call the Wu and diversify my bonds.  I could produce $2k right now, but I really need to start saving for retirement.
 
2014-04-08 10:43:31 AM  
This should be as good a time as any to correct our culture of consumerism, but parents need to buy their kids a $200 pair of headphones because fark you, that's why.
 
2014-04-08 10:44:29 AM  
I won't make wild accusations.  I'll just CSB for you.

I was there, broke, living paycheck to paycheck, sometimes borrowing from a future paycheck just to have money now to pay bills I thought I couldn't pay.   One day I woke up and said I can't do this anymore.  I stopped going out if I didn't really have the money.  I stopped all the extras that I really didn't need.  I put myself on a budget.  I sold some stuff and paid the lowest balance credit cards first just to feel better about my situation.  Then I just kept working to pay off stuff one at a time.

10 years later I have a better job, money in the bank, more money in another bank, a new house, money to blow on fun things,  only two credit cards with zero balance on them,  and still following a budget.

It takes some sacrifice, but you can do it.  I know, I've been there.

WRITE IT DOWN.  Just shutup with the excuses and WRITE IT DOWN.  You'd be surprised at the amount you piss away and not know it.
 
2014-04-08 10:44:41 AM  

SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.


I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.
 
2014-04-08 10:44:51 AM  

Dadoody: I have about 250k I could pull out and still be debt free.

I know people my age who've worked the same jobs as me and have made as much or more, and can't seem to save a dime of it, so unless you've got mental disabilities, there is no reason you couldn't have worked and saved or invested money in a way to grow it and have some for a rainy day unless you've made some poor life choices, and let's face it.....4 in 10 Americans usually do make some pretty lousy life choices.


Poor life choices, such as a major medical expense, divorce where you're wiped out completely by you're biatch of an ex-wife and her farking man-hating lesbo attorney, and having to file for bankruptcy to clear the remaining debt so you can buy some food and pay rent at the same time.

/Still happier than I've been in a long time./
/why is divorce so expensive? Because it's WORTH IT!/
 
2014-04-08 10:45:07 AM  

Slypork: Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]

Fractions speak louder than words


Booooo.
 
2014-04-08 10:45:27 AM  

fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.


QFT.  Step 0: Stop spending more than you earn.
 
2014-04-08 10:45:31 AM  

SpectroBoy: Wasilla Hillbilly: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

Although I don't have any of the things mentioned in your hint, I have to admit that both A and B apply to me and yes, B is the main factor in A. My only 'luxury' is my 3mb DSL connection, which I think would actually end up costing me more if I didn't have it.


I purposely didn't list an internet connection. Having internet can save people a tons of money shopping and also helps with finding a job (or doing a job). I sort of consider internet a staple at this point. It's hard to be a part of society without it.


Also if you're living on your own, you're wasting money.
 
2014-04-08 10:46:24 AM  

doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.



lol.   maybe we should ask some folks where all that middle/working class wealth went these last few years??   methinks, no, meknows it went upstream to its owners where it belongs.
 
2014-04-08 10:46:26 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: 10 years later I have a better job, money in the bank, more money in another bank, a new house, money to blow on fun things,  only two credit cards with zero balance on them,  and still following a budget.

It takes some sacrifice, but you can do it.  I know, I've been there


PRIVILEGE!!!
 
2014-04-08 10:47:08 AM  

Dimensio: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


Only if you put careful thought into whom to burgle.  I mean, 40% of us can't come up with that much to save our lives.
 
2014-04-08 10:47:44 AM  

hej: What, are they too lazy to rob a bank, too?



the bank is robbing them.  most just don't know it.
 
2014-04-08 10:48:10 AM  

Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.


Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.
 
2014-04-08 10:48:37 AM  

skozlaw: svanmeter: This should make our elected officials nervous.

Nah, they're fine.

[cloudfront.mediamatters.org image 636x480]

doglover: If they just ate beans and lived in shared apartments, they could save up enough to get out their situations.

The funny thing is, your sarcasm works on multiple levels. If they really did try to get into hostel-type living arrangements and the whole thing took off, landlords would just jack up the rates or buy laws making it illegal for more than two unrelated person to live together in a single residence.

/ it's almost like something is draining the pockets of the low and middle working classes
// like... like some sort of upward trickling effect centered on people without the means to fight back


Saw a documentary on Housing Projects in the '60s. Very interesting. Basically it was a Republicans wet dream. If the family had a man who was of working age, he couldn't live with the family. That's right, they would separate families. Control was absolute, you were not allowed to have TVs or much of anything that would make you not poor.

There's a reason the projects became breeding grounds for drugs and gangs and most of it stems from the 1960s and the idea of being forced to stay in poverty in order to have a roof. The GOP would love to return to that standard, it seems.
 
2014-04-08 10:48:55 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Wages have fallen and prices have risen to the point where Americans are in such lousy financial shape that 4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000 if their lives depended on it.

Fixed that for you Wall Street.



well done.  Great repair job.
 
2014-04-08 10:49:22 AM  
I am in the 60% of us who can come up with $2,000.
 
2014-04-08 10:50:25 AM  

PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.



computerized applications are much easier to delete than a bunch of paper applications.  its much more convenient.
 
2014-04-08 10:51:16 AM  
That still counts as change.
 
2014-04-08 10:52:38 AM  

PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.


Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.
 
2014-04-08 10:53:36 AM  

trotsky: Saw a documentary on Housing Projects in the '60s. Very interesting. Basically it was a Republicans wet dream. If the family had a man who was of working age, he couldn't live with the family. That's right, they would separate families. Control was absolute, you were not allowed to have TVs or much of anything that would make you not poor.

There's a reason the projects became breeding grounds for drugs and gangs and most of it stems from the 1960s and the idea of being forced to stay in poverty in order to have a roof. The GOP would love to return to that standard, it seems.


Sounds like pretty much every social program that came out of LBJ's war on poverty.
 
2014-04-08 10:53:37 AM  

PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.


I sort of agree on that but the data plan quickly gets more expensive than the phone.

And libraries have free computers too.
 
2014-04-08 10:53:37 AM  
If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.
 
2014-04-08 10:55:04 AM  

GoldSpider: PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.


Anyone who thinks you don't need one hasn't worked in awhile.
 
2014-04-08 10:55:44 AM  

GoldSpider: PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.


I wouldn't say it's the only way, but it does make the process a lot easier.
 
2014-04-08 10:56:06 AM  

doglover: GoldSpider: PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.

Anyone who thinks you don't need one hasn't worked in awhile.


If you're working a job that  requires a smartphone, you shouldn't be part of this article
 
2014-04-08 10:56:31 AM  
Yes, I'm basically in that group. And yes, it's my fault.
 
2014-04-08 10:57:26 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.


This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"
 
2014-04-08 10:58:03 AM  
Why is this sad? I say it depends on the demographics the question was asked to. I mean are we talking about a bunch of 20 yr olds or a bunch of 50 yr olds? if the latter than yes sad indeed but 20 yr olds...not only is it not sad but to the contrary and actually amazing if 40% of 20 yr olds can come up with $2K on a whim. I sure as heck couldn't when I was 20 or even at 25 w/o borrowing.

If it's evenly spread across the board across all racial, social and age groups than 40% is probably 'normal'.

Article is a false flag and sensationalism for the sake of sensationalism. If you want to find root cause you need to dive deeper and more granular. Break it down by age groups, by race, geography and other factors instead of just a blanket 40% of Americans.
 
2014-04-08 10:58:37 AM  

Serious Black: I wouldn't say it's the only way, but it does make the process a lot easier.


Around this time last year I was looking for work and applying for a lot of jobs.  Most of the sites I applied on were kludgy and confusing and poorly-designed, and that was from a laptop!  No way in hell most of them would have worked from a smartphone.
 
2014-04-08 10:58:38 AM  
I just had a friend (who I haven't really talked to in years) ask to borrow $500.00.  I felt so bad telling her "no" because I knew it would ruin our friendship and be awkward.  It makes me feel bad to say no, but I'd feel worse asking for it back.
 
2014-04-08 10:59:06 AM  
Good thing my life doesn't depend on coming up with $2000 on the spot.

Got a credit account good at doctors, dentists and veterinarians. Plenty of room on it, and I always pay it off in 6 months.
Got another credit account good at my mechanic, same deal.
Stray cash gets spent on better food and "necessities", so I send a painful amount to my 401K, where it doesn't get raided. (Why yes, I'm married.)

Hold a gun to my head and demand $2000? Yeah, I'm phoning a friend. Several people I know have more than $2000 cash and would part with it to keep me alive. Barring asking for help, how poor would you have to be to not even know a loan shark?
 
2014-04-08 10:59:31 AM  
Count me among that number.

If I liquidated all my assets, including my car, furniture, and the box of computer parts in the garage, I might be able to get 2000 if I had to have the cash today.

I'm thankful every day for the insurance plan that keeps the kids healthy.
 
2014-04-08 11:01:42 AM  

SordidEuphemism: Count me among that number.

If I liquidated all my assets, including my car, furniture, and the box of computer parts in the garage, I might be able to get 2000 if I had to have the cash today.

I'm thankful every day for the insurance plan that keeps the kids healthy.


See my wife and I had a slightly different financial plan. We didn't have kids until we had a good $20k of liquid assets in case of emergency.

12 in one hand... etc
 
2014-04-08 11:02:11 AM  
I like to think of it more in terms of "how much could I disappear with within a few days?"  You know, cash out the IRA, CDs, 401k, max out the credit card cash advances, drain the checking and savings, and sell the house for cash.

Makes me feel more secret agent and less poor.
 
2014-04-08 11:04:54 AM  

SpectroBoy: PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

I sort of agree on that but the data plan quickly gets more expensive than the phone.

And libraries have free computers too.


Gotta agree with this.  I don't have cable TV, or a smart phone and it's accompanying ridiculous fees and just by eliminating those two things, you too, could easily come up with $2,000.00.
 
2014-04-08 11:05:36 AM  
I'm poor and I could come up with 2k if I had to.  I would go to prison afterwards, but yea $2k wouldnt be an issue.

One of you would be out $2k though.
 
2014-04-08 11:06:11 AM  

lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.


I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.
 
2014-04-08 11:06:44 AM  

MugzyBrown: If you're working a job that requires a smartphone, you shouldn't be part of this article


You'd think that, but then you'd be wrong.

And to be fair I COULD get by without a smart phone. I'd just have to print out a million documents each week like maps and schedules etc.
 
2014-04-08 11:07:14 AM  
Then let's do the environment some good, and demand an immediate $2,000 tax payment for carbon offset, with lives depending on it.

We could stand to lose about 40M slacker loser parasite pieces of shiat around here. We would lose the anchors and albatrosses around our necks, and nothing of value.
 
2014-04-08 11:10:06 AM  

doglover: SlothB77: Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

well, if the option is sell your car or bike or die right now, does the future really matter?

No it doesn't. Which is why:

Dimensio: In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


Finally, we are getting somewhere!
 
2014-04-08 11:10:54 AM  
How do we rank against other countries in that regard.  Could people in Germany come up with $1450 euros just as easily?
 
2014-04-08 11:11:07 AM  
So with Microsoft abandoning support for XP, are people going to go out and buy a tablet? Are they going to go out and buy a new OS and try to install it on their old desktop? Are they going to buy an off-lease or refurb desktop with a newer OS? Are they going to buy a new desktop with a new OS then pay to upgrade 8.1?

Can 4 out of 10 Americans scrape enough money together to do any of those things?

/apparently, 75% of the ATMs in the US use a flavor of XP....
 
2014-04-08 11:11:27 AM  

Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


Making money, huhwut? If you can't cough up 2K, then you clearly aren't driving that car to a job anyway. Not driving to the liquor store is the only downside to selling the car.
 
2014-04-08 11:12:55 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: If you want to find root cause you need to dive deeper and more granular. Break it down by age groups, by race, geography and other factors instead of just a blanket 40% of Americans.


Yep. There's got to be some way to classify people so that you can safely say this is a problem for "them", not for "us".
 
2014-04-08 11:13:03 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Gotta agree with this.  I don't have cable TV, or a smart phone and it's accompanying ridiculous fees and just by eliminating those two things, you too, could easily come up with $2,000.00.


When I finally figured out I needed to budget a few years ago, the first thing to get cut was the cable and phone.  Dropping the digital package and going to just-Internet and basic cable (cheaper than without any cable package) took my bill from $110 to $50.  Dropping my AT&T contract and switching to Virgin Mobile dropped my bill from $85 to $25.

Not counting any other re-prioritization, that was an extra $120 per month to put away.

15% of Americans live in poverty.  The remaining 25% are doing it wrong.
 
2014-04-08 11:13:28 AM  

SevenizGud: Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

Making money, huhwut? If you can't cough up 2K, then you clearly aren't driving that car to a job anyway. Not driving to the liquor store is the only downside to selling the car.


Not really, at least you couldn't get an OVI.
 
kab
2014-04-08 11:16:26 AM  
If only poor people would stop buying stuff, it would fix everything, including unemployment!
 
2014-04-08 11:16:38 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k


The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?
 
2014-04-08 11:16:53 AM  

SevenizGud: Then let's do the environment some good, and demand an immediate $2,000 tax payment for carbon offset, with lives depending on it.

We could stand to lose about 40M slacker loser parasite pieces of shiat around here. We would lose the anchors and albatrosses around our necks, and nothing of value.


You know who else wanted to kill 40M people he didn't like?
 
2014-04-08 11:20:51 AM  
There are many instances (not all, but many) where this is the fault of stupid Americans.  Dumbasses that decided that it was ok to keep spending beyond their means, or other dumbasses that thought that they didn't need an education to succeed in this world.  Or the other dumbasses that did the house-flipping thing to the point that they never thought the bubble would pop.

It's a real simple lesson to learn:  When you need money and don't have money, it sucks.  When you make money every week/month, but then spend all of your money on stupid shiat, and don't save any money, you end up not having money when you need money.

What's killing many in this country is the large amounts of credit card debt.  You gotta pay for it eventually, and paying cost + 18-25% every month is the stupidest of all the forms of stupid.  I get that nobody can pull $20,000 out of their ass for a car or more than that for a house, but other than that, there's really no reason whatsoever to go into debt to anyone, let alone a credit card company.
 
2014-04-08 11:21:25 AM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


The average US Household only 2.6 people.. so 2 parents and half of a kid.

$51k isn't that bad for most areas of the country in that situation
 
2014-04-08 11:21:30 AM  
I'd loan money to friends if I knew them well and could get some sort of collateral.

Amusingly enough, I just got through coaching my kids that there are no such things as "loans between friends"

There's either gifts, with no expectation of ever getting anything back, or soon-to-be-ex-friends with your money they'll never repay.

Later, when they're a bit older, we'll go over the whole "collateral" thing and talk about compound interest.  For the next few years, that rule will work just fine.  Yesterday one of them bought their friend a school lunch when they forgot to bring theirs, just as a gift.  Way to go, they understood me, I'm very proud.
 
2014-04-08 11:21:38 AM  

Clever Neologism: In case the powers that be haven't figured it out: there's damn near no more blood to be squeezed out of the middle and lower classes... they are already on razor thin margins as it is.


And then we are blamed and judged for it being that bad, too.
 
2014-04-08 11:21:54 AM  
in other words 4 out of 10 americans are retarded... 2000 is not really that much....
 
2014-04-08 11:22:38 AM  

Serious Black: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


My primary transportation? an extremely well worn 6 cylinder powered Chevy II Nova station wagon that I paid $200 for, God knows how many years ago. It has to have easily over 1/4 million miles on it by now, but it gets me to point A and point B amazingly reliably. I can't afford to replace it under today's Obama economy. At least my registration is super cheap and it's exempt from inspections.
 
2014-04-08 11:23:47 AM  
Well, this sucks. Most of my extended family is there (unable to come up with $2k).

I'm lucky that our household is not there. One more mortgage payment and we're done. Financially, everything looks great, including kids' college savings, retirement, liquid savings, good cars, etc.

Guess who still watches TV on a CRT. I'm actually the only one in my family not watching TV in HD. We certainly didn't spend our way into our situation. Blessed to have good jobs as well.
 
2014-04-08 11:24:00 AM  

Cold_Sassy: SpectroBoy: PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

I sort of agree on that but the data plan quickly gets more expensive than the phone.

And libraries have free computers too.

Gotta agree with this.  I don't have cable TV, or a smart phone and it's accompanying ridiculous fees and just by eliminating those two things, you too, could easily come up with $2,000.00.


$45 a month for unlimited everything is hardly ridiculous.

You guys make it way too easy to tell if you are part of the 4 or the 6.
 
2014-04-08 11:24:16 AM  
My in-laws seem to be pretty well-off.  If I need 2 large, I'll just dose some of that fast-acting cancer powder into their metamucil.
 
2014-04-08 11:24:39 AM  
Not after paying personal property taxes yesterday...


/I could sell a few items for some quick cash but not for the value I have in them.
 
2014-04-08 11:27:18 AM  

sandi_fish: I just had a friend (who I haven't really talked to in years) ask to borrow $500.00.  I felt so bad telling her "no" because I knew it would ruin our friendship and be awkward.  It makes me feel bad to say no, but I'd feel worse asking for it back.


I never loan money to friends. I will give it to them, though. And I always tell them if they ever feel that they need to pay me back I will accept their money as a gift. It keeps the "loan" from becoming an issue in the friendship, and it also limits how much I'm willing to give since I know once it's gone, it's gone.
 
2014-04-08 11:27:28 AM  

kab: If only poor people would stop buying stuff, it would fix everything, including unemployment!


Fun fact: conservative fiscal policy suggests they believe that if you give a rich person a $1,000,000 tax break that they hoard because they had no use for it, it will benefit the economy more than if you raise a poor person's wage by $1500 a year and they spend all of it on things they need.
 
2014-04-08 11:29:22 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: I won't make wild accusations.  I'll just CSB for you.

I was there, broke, living paycheck to paycheck, sometimes borrowing from a future paycheck just to have money now to pay bills I thought I couldn't pay.   One day I woke up and said I can't do this anymore.  I stopped going out if I didn't really have the money.  I stopped all the extras that I really didn't need.  I put myself on a budget.  I sold some stuff and paid the lowest balance credit cards first just to feel better about my situation.  Then I just kept working to pay off stuff one at a time.

10 years later I have a better job, money in the bank, more money in another bank, a new house, money to blow on fun things,  only two credit cards with zero balance on them,  and still following a budget.

It takes some sacrifice, but you can do it.  I know, I've been there.

WRITE IT DOWN.  Just shutup with the excuses and WRITE IT DOWN.  You'd be surprised at the amount you piss away and not know it.


This is what helped me get out of debt.  I kept an Excel spreadsheet of the budget.  Something like

Current Balance, Paychecks In, bills, CC1, CC2, CC3, CC4, Car, remainder (food and fun)

Bills just had to be paid and I started with the lowest credit cards first.  Writing it down month by month actually got me excited because I could see "Hey, in 4 months I pay this one then I put cc1 to cc2, holy shiat! I can pay off CC2 8 months after that!" and so on.  It gave me the light at the end of the tunnel.  By the time i focused on the car I was paying basically double payments and paid it off in 3 years instead of 5, which was good cuz my interest rate was criminal because my credit was so terrible (22-23% can't remember which).  Oh and I also forced myself to put money in savings (and not touch it except for emergencies or unexpected expenses).  Might have just been $25 a month to start.  I tried to balance increasing my savings as I paid off debt so that I kept building myself a bigger cushion.  Come to think of it this was almost exactly 10 years ago for me as well.  Same deal, now I've got a house, 3 months emergency savings, 401k, and other investments.  Sadly, I'm so far the only one in my immediate family who has learned this lesson.
 
2014-04-08 11:29:37 AM  
Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.
(Invest: You give them some money, they almost promise to give it back to you later.)

So you are not a dumbass, (90% of the American public are extreme dumbasses) and you make 100k (more than twice the median household income) just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on
(minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.

Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn't give my kiddo's a huge perverse incentive to poison my Sanka.
 
2014-04-08 11:31:01 AM  
I can get $2000, but I'll have to lay low for a while.

/warn me if you hear sirens.
 
2014-04-08 11:34:06 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.

This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"


It's illegal for somebody paying off a bankruptcy to have savings like that.  If I could set $85 every two weeks aside I could add an additional $170 a month to the payment schedule.  I wish I had that kind of extra money available.  It would take a few months off the back end.  After that's all paid off then I get to save money.  A lot of money.  Enough for a down payment on a house in just a couple of years.  But until then, savings means having a couple hundred in the bank at the end of the month and that's it.  Everything else is gone.

And no, the bankruptcy wasn't due to excessive spending on my part.  My ex-wife didn't pay her part of the debts after we were divorced.  She lied, I was sued for the money and socked with thousands of extra debt.  More legal bullshiat has to happen before I can get that money back.
 
2014-04-08 11:35:24 AM  
Strange, Republicans and Libertarians keep saying that individuals should have total control of their money, because they know better how to handle it than the government. And yet it appears that if we did dump SS/Medicare/etc there would be millions that would have to work until they died just to make ends meet, or end up starving on the street.
 
2014-04-08 11:35:28 AM  
The entitlement mentality in this thread has exceeded my ability to comprehend.

My daughter is 22, a recent college graduate, and could come up with 2K (cash) on her way home from work if she had to.  Ya know why?  She <GASP> works two jobs to support herself.  One full-time, and one part.  Know why else?  While she does have a smart phone, she also doesn't spend all day playing games and posting to fark whining about her life.  She's too busy working to improve it because she understands that a career has to be built.  It doesn't just get handed to you because you were born.

/   If anyone wants to know the average intellect of the typical farker, all you have to do is look at the post-count in EVERY 'wrestling' thread as opposed to all the other threads combined.
//  "Something other than wrestling happened".  0 to maybe 400.
///  RASSLIN' = Eleventy Brazilian.
 
2014-04-08 11:36:29 AM  

SurfaceTension: sandi_fish: I just had a friend (who I haven't really talked to in years) ask to borrow $500.00.  I felt so bad telling her "no" because I knew it would ruin our friendship and be awkward.  It makes me feel bad to say no, but I'd feel worse asking for it back.

I never loan money to friends. I will give it to them, though. And I always tell them if they ever feel that they need to pay me back I will accept their money as a gift. It keeps the "loan" from becoming an issue in the friendship, and it also limits how much I'm willing to give since I know once it's gone, it's gone.


I agree, that is how you would have to treat it.  Since we had not really talked in awhile, I didn't feel the need to give her that. Knowing the financial position she was in, she would not likely be able to give it back.
 
2014-04-08 11:36:51 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Strange, Republicans and Libertarians keep saying that individuals should have total control of their money, because they know better how to handle it than the government. And yet it appears that if we did dump SS/Medicare/etc there would be millions that would have to work until they died just to make ends meet, or end up starving on the street.


Strange we spend billions and billions on government programs and people are still poor and still need to work their whole lives just to make ends meet
 
2014-04-08 11:38:36 AM  

MugzyBrown: doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?

The average US Household only 2.6 people.. so 2 parents and half of a kid.

$51k isn't that bad for most areas of the country in that situation


He don't eat much and occasionally gets a job as a beggar in stage productions of Oliver Twist.
 
2014-04-08 11:39:06 AM  
I'm this close...


i188.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-08 11:40:57 AM  
I really hate to sound like a complete dick about this, because I know I have been very lucky in life to this point. And whatever success I have managed to enjoy has been only partially attributable to my own efforts, attitudes and commitments.

But still...it needs to be said.

The only reason I spend a couple of hours each day making snarky comments on internet discussion boards is because I can afford to. And if I couldn't, then I wouldn't.
 
2014-04-08 11:41:28 AM  
Yeah, a lot of people wiped out/lost all their reserves surviving the Bush recession.
 
2014-04-08 11:42:15 AM  

naughtyrev: Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.


More Americans will probably see it this way.
 
2014-04-08 11:42:36 AM  
This is why we don't have a thriving kidnap and ransom economy in the United States.
 
2014-04-08 11:43:20 AM  

KeatingFive: Yeah, a lot of people wiped out/lost all their reserves surviving the Bush recession.


Frizbone: I can't afford to replace it under today's Obama economy.


IT'S SOMEONE ELSES FAULT!
 
2014-04-08 11:44:53 AM  
Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.
 
2014-04-08 11:45:07 AM  

lennavan: It's no different than all the diet gurus. People know what to do, they know how to do it, they just need their ass kicked hard enough to go do it. Spend less than you make. Eat less than you burn. The rest is just gimmicky bullshiat.


I strongly agree with both of those statements.    The thing about the household fund of $1.5K is that it is the approximate amount of a household emergency.  If you have the cash handy, when your car needs new wheel bearings, or you hot water heater dies, you have it covered.   You don't have to dig deeper into the hole that you're digging out of.  It allows you to manage instead of react.
 
2014-04-08 11:45:57 AM  

Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick


I call bullshiat on that statement :)
 
2014-04-08 11:46:47 AM  

SlothB77: doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.


The car?  Sure.  That'd be the #1 asset for millions of Americans.  Of course, a lot couldn't readily sell it for much more than they have on the note.

The flat-screen TV?  The 40-50" TVs the middle-class have are $350 or so brand new at Best Buy.  They might get $150 on Craigslist
The couch?  Either they got it used or they're still paying it off.  In any event, dozens of couches are $125 or less on Craigslist in my town.  Hell, a not insignificant number are free.
Bike?  Again, Walmart/Target sell a lot more of them than proper bike shops.  And Walmart/Target bikes ain't worth poop.  $50 at most.  If they did buy a semi-quality Specialized or Trek... $100-150 used.

So, car, yes, that would be the "thing they could sell".  All the other trinkets?  Are pretty much rounding errors in terms of realizable value.
 
2014-04-08 11:47:29 AM  
trotsky:
Saw a documentary on Housing Projects in the '60s. Very interesting. Basically it was a Republicans wet dream. If the family had a man who was of working age, he couldn't live with the family. That's right, they would separate families. Control was absolute, you were not allowed to have TVs or much of anything that would make you not poor.


The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.  All he has to do is show up after 10pm, after the kids are in bed.  That is no way to promote a work ethic.
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

even that aside.  If he actually had a job, it would be money into the household, which means less money is going to mom, because her current benefits were based on her saying she had no money.
So letting him stay there, costs her money.  Can she count on him giving her the money every 2 weeks?
 
2014-04-08 11:48:22 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


Don't post numbers in a liberal forum, drives them nuts. Government knows best. People should not be allowed to take care of themselves, it is not fair.
 
2014-04-08 11:49:24 AM  

lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.


Can I get that deal without having to vote (R)?
 
2014-04-08 11:49:27 AM  

BigChad: I'm this close...


[i188.photobucket.com image 750x600]


you were supposed to ask...

/isn't that the supposed to ask kid?
 
2014-04-08 11:49:45 AM  

Thunderpipes: Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.


You realize that not even communist China does this, right?  You must by in PRK.  Did you have sawdust or dirt for lunch?
 
2014-04-08 11:50:33 AM  
Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

Different people have different situations, obviously, but this is exactly why I deliberately moved to a small city with a viable bus system when I was just starting out.  I knew I was poor and a car was a mouth to feed. It probably saved me about $40,000 between the time I moved out of my dad's house and the day I finally bought another car with an income over $75k.

If you haven't done something that's already cornered you, it's a good decision when you're young.
 
2014-04-08 11:51:43 AM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


They take the same 12.5% from mom and dad, no matter what.  No need for names.

I'm suggesting someone is stealing from mom and dad.  They are just being told it is good for them.
 
2014-04-08 11:51:51 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.


Yes. This is totally the majority of all people.

Keep farking that chicken.


thecount.com
 
2014-04-08 11:52:01 AM  

Carn: Thunderpipes: Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.

You realize that not even communist China does this, right?  You must by in PRK.  Did you have sawdust or dirt for lunch?


Alternative Minimum Income Tax Credit.  But no, I plan on a nice turkey sub from Sheetz.
 
2014-04-08 11:53:32 AM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.

The median household income includes students, retirees, singles, etc., and is not representative of families with children.
 
2014-04-08 11:53:46 AM  

BMFPitt: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

Can I get that deal without having to vote (R)?


God how I would love to be able to opt out of SS/Medicare.  Hell I would just take my 7% instead of the whole 14% if I had to to get out.
 
2014-04-08 11:54:09 AM  

Gary-L: Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick

I call bullshiat on that statement :)


No, I really did feel badly about saying that. But I still think it needed to be said.
 
2014-04-08 11:55:07 AM  
For most people on the lower to lower middle class spectrum, money is a bit of an abstraction, and they develop the habit of easy in, easy out.  I was like that when I was a teen (I grew up relatively poor), and it was only in my mid 20s that I started to save up. The kids have 529s with another ten years to go before they need them, we had a sizable down payment on the house, and we have few other big bills.  We paid off our cars early, and, yeah, they're older (my wife's car turned 12, mine 7), but they still have zero maintenance attached to them.  No, we may not have thermometers and Bluetooth in our cars, but that's a fair tradeoff in order to get our savings built up and our kids' college funds bulked up.  So many people, though, can't do with sacrifice.  The new PS4 beckons, and so they buy it, even though that's all they had in their account.
 
2014-04-08 11:57:06 AM  

freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.


You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011
 
2014-04-08 11:57:34 AM  
"Will they eat cake with the $2,000?"

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-08 11:57:50 AM  
Shouldn't have gotten that BA in Poetry then


/Engineer
//3 year out of school, make more than is reasonable
///saving+investing it
////engunears r gud at maff
 
2014-04-08 11:57:53 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011


You're not good at reading.
 
2014-04-08 11:58:09 AM  
E5bie:  
 

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on (minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) ,  

To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn' ...



What does healthcare have to do with Social security.   Healthcare is a very complicated issue.

The item being discussed was saving for retirement.

Pointing out that the example was double what the average income was does not have any effect.
Simply divide the result by two.
 with Social Security, your kids get half of zero.

You still get 3x as much and retire 10 years sooner.
 
2014-04-08 11:59:18 AM  
Do they mean 4 in 10 adults of working age without mental or physical disability?

Because there are a ton of children out there who don't have $2k.  Retards too. And people in prison.

So that number is either disappointingly high or totally understandable.
 
2014-04-08 12:01:01 PM  

Lawnchair: SlothB77: doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.

The car?  Sure.  That'd be the #1 asset for millions of Americans.  Of course, a lot couldn't readily sell it for much more than they have on the note.

The flat-screen TV?  The 40-50" TVs the middle-class have are $350 or so brand new at Best Buy.  They might get $150 on Craigslist
The couch?  Either they got it used or they're still paying it off.  In any event, dozens of couches are $125 or less on Craigslist in my town.  Hell, a not insignificant number are free.
Bike?  Again, Walmart/Target sell a lot more of them than proper bike shops.  And Walmart/Target bikes ain't worth poop.  $50 at most.  If they did buy a semi-quality Specialized or Trek... $100-150 used.

So, car, yes, that would be the "thing they could sell".  All the other trinkets?  Are pretty much rounding errors in terms of realizable value.


Kids.  They can sell the kids.
 
2014-04-08 12:01:01 PM  

Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick about this, because I know I have been very lucky in life to this point. And whatever success I have managed to enjoy has been only partially attributable to my own efforts, attitudes and commitments.

But still...it needs to be said.

The only reason I spend a couple of hours each day making snarky comments on internet discussion boards is because I can afford to. And if I couldn't, then I wouldn't.


But you are aware that there are many out here on Fark who are not in your position. Some are under-employed some are unemployed (I even suspect some are paid shills but I am not sure how much that shait pays) the point of the article is not that Mr Fabulous is doing well it is that many are not. You seemed to think it was about you.
 
2014-04-08 12:02:51 PM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.

Yes. This is totally the majority of all people.

Keep farking that chicken.


So, lest see.  I said "Some people"
and your turned that into "the majority of all people"

Do you always alter someone's argument and defeat it and claim victory?
 
2014-04-08 12:03:29 PM  
I could pull a couple grand off, but I doubt I could do it twice.

Back when silver was $50 an ounce, I made a habit of taking twenty bucks on payday and getting a couple rolls of half dollar coins to dig through for the silver ones. At that point, a silver half was worth about $20 just in melt value. A roll could bring about $400 for $10 in expenses.

That pulled a couple grand at a time when we really needed the money.

Problem is, the silver halves are basically tapped out. I still do this on payday, but I get maybe 1 out of 5 or 6 rolls. It's pure profit, but nowhere near where it was.

If I liquidated the coin collection I've built since I was a kid, I could probably pull about another five or six grand, but again, that's a one-time draw.
 
2014-04-08 12:03:55 PM  

freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000,


Well you are wrong, unless you're trying to fudge numbers. Even without the kids, you've got two adults on $50k per year. It's doable, but only if plan on working until you die or never, ever having any fun.
 
2014-04-08 12:04:38 PM  
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-04-08 12:04:57 PM  

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


I forget that old people still think a used flat screen is worth more than $200 after a few years.
 
2014-04-08 12:06:47 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: For most people on the lower to lower middle class spectrum, money is a bit of an abstraction, and they develop the habit of easy in, easy out. I was like that when I was a teen (I grew up relatively poor), and it was only in my mid 20s that I started to save up. The kids have 529s with another ten years to go before they need them, we had a sizable down payment on the house, and we have few other big bills. We paid off our cars early, and, yeah, they're older (my wife's car turned 12, mine 7), but they still have zero maintenance attached to them. No, we may not have thermometers and Bluetooth in our cars, but that's a fair tradeoff in order to get our savings built up and our kids' college funds bulked up. So many people, though, can't do with sacrifice. The new PS4 beckons, and so they buy it, even though that's all they had in their account.


Do you mean people are supposed to sacrifice a little in order to save up and have enough money in order to live month to  month?

How can that be? They are entitled to those video games and eating at Macdonalds every day
 
2014-04-08 12:06:54 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: doglover: Nutsac_Jim: The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.

Yes. This is totally the majority of all people.

Keep farking that chicken.

So, lest see.  I said "Some people"
and your turned that into "the majority of all people"

Do you always alter someone's argument and defeat it and claim victory?


You haven't given an argument. You've posted some drivel on an internet forum.

Actually develop an argument, toss your hat in the ring, and maybe I'll vote for ya.
 
2014-04-08 12:07:40 PM  

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.


You're obviously not poor.

A poor person has a car that they bought for less than $1000, a couch that was free or from a thrift store, and a TV they got at Walmart or online for a couple hundred dollars. Chances are that most of their non-essential appliances are in the same boat.
 
2014-04-08 12:08:27 PM  
Aren't we all 17 Trillion in debt?
 
2014-04-08 12:08:38 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.

You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011


I'm not going to be mean to you about your reading comprehension, but if you read the sentence that came immediately after that you would realize that...

Median household income (all households) is NOT THE SAME THING as median family income (all households with children), nor is median family income the same thing as median family income with two parents and two (or three) children, the group doglover was trying to apply that number to.

Averaging in the incomes of people who are not trying to raise families (like non-working students and retirees on fixed incomes) to bring the number down then yelling "how is anybody supposed to raise a family on that?!" is fundamentally dishonest, though I doubt doglover was doing it on purpose.
 
2014-04-08 12:09:03 PM  
media-cdn.tripadvisor.com

They don't have shiat to take to the pawn store?  Don't have a car to use for a title loan?  Can't take a cash advance on a credit card?  Don't have a single relative who can give them a loan?

I was paycheck to paycheck for most of my life and I don't think there was a point in my life between 21 and 39 when I didn't have an outstanding debt of some kind (credit card, car loan, etc.) but I could come up with a couple grand within a business day one way or another.  Cash advance, call grandpa, call dad, sell some stuff, get a title loan on the car, etc.  And that's just assuming I stuck to legitimate sources of money.  If it was really life or death, I'd rob the hell out of something or someone.
 
2014-04-08 12:11:35 PM  

Rapmaster2000: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

I forget that old people still think a used flat screen is worth more than $200 after a few years.


I paid something like $600 for my main TV. I bought it six and a half years ago. I doubt I could get more than $100 for it on Craigslist today considering that similar new TVs today easily run under $300.
 
2014-04-08 12:12:35 PM  

jtown: [media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

They don't have shiat to take to the pawn store?  Don't have a car to use for a title loan?  Can't take a cash advance on a credit card?  Don't have a single relative who can give them a loan?

I was paycheck to paycheck for most of my life and I don't think there was a point in my life between 21 and 39 when I didn't have an outstanding debt of some kind (credit card, car loan, etc.) but I could come up with a couple grand within a business day one way or another.  Cash advance, call grandpa, call dad, sell some stuff, get a title loan on the car, etc.  And that's just assuming I stuck to legitimate sources of money.  If it was really life or death, I'd rob the hell out of something or someone.


Some of us don't have any rich relatives.  Some day I hope to be the pseudo-rich uncle.
 
2014-04-08 12:13:58 PM  

monoski: Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick about this, because I know I have been very lucky in life to this point. And whatever success I have managed to enjoy has been only partially attributable to my own efforts, attitudes and commitments.

But still...it needs to be said.

The only reason I spend a couple of hours each day making snarky comments on internet discussion boards is because I can afford to. And if I couldn't, then I wouldn't.

But you are aware that there are many out here on Fark who are not in your position. Some are under-employed some are unemployed (I even suspect some are paid shills but I am not sure how much that shait pays) the point of the article is not that Mr Fabulous is doing well it is that many are not. You seemed to think it was about you.



I believe you missed my point entirely.
 
2014-04-08 12:14:00 PM  

Fubini: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

You're obviously not poor.

A poor person has a car that they bought for less than $1000, a couch that was free or from a thrift store, and a TV they got at Walmart or online for a couple hundred dollars. Chances are that most of their non-essential appliances are in the same boat.


But it's only $50 a month for satellite.  you can afford that easy.....

farm5.staticflickr.com
 
2014-04-08 12:14:04 PM  
I couldn't come up with 1/10th of that if my life depended on it, lol.

Oy vey.

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


Take it from someone who did precisely what you're talking about a couple of years ago to get over that "emergency hump"- your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

After I lost my job we lived off of savings and my wife's earnings while I looked for more work.  That work never came, and so when the money ran out and things like food and rent were no longer feasible the car was the fist thing to go.  Figured we could walk or bus wherever we needed to travel.  Had bought it from a friend for about a grand a few years earlier, managed to sell it for around $600.  That bought us about a month of rent and painful feet.  At the end of that time we still hadn't made any progress and said, "fark it- everything must go" and had a garage sale.  Sold almost every single thing we owned.  Every wedding present, every nice thing we've ever bought for ourselves or each other, every tool, every device, every appliance.  Came out with about $300.  Not enough to make rent (and we'd already been skipping meals for a while by that time) but enough to get us to her parent's place in a shiatty jobless town in New Mexico.  shiat sort of got worse from there.

But I can't tell you how much simpler maintenance of your life gets when all you own is a change of clothes and a mattress.  So, you know, tiny victories.

I'm beginning to feel like the tatsuma of poverty threads.
 
2014-04-08 12:14:58 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest
it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.


This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.
 
2014-04-08 12:15:20 PM  

freewill: JusticeandIndependence: freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.

You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011

I'm not going to be mean to you about your reading comprehension, but if you read the sentence that came immediately after that you would realize that...

Median household income (all households) is NOT THE SAME THING as median family income (all households with children), nor is median family income the same thing as median family income with two parents and two (or three) children, the group doglover was trying to apply that number to.

Averaging in the incomes of people who are not trying to raise families (like non-working students and retirees on fixed incomes) to bring the number down then yelling "how is anybody supposed to raise a family on that?!" is fundamentally dishonest, though I doubt doglover was doing it on purpose.


Yep, I did read too fast.  No problem.
 
2014-04-08 12:15:54 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: E5bie:  
 

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on (minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) ,  

To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn' ...


What does healthcare have to do with Social security.   Healthcare is a very complicated issue.

The item being discussed was saving for retirement.

Pointing out that the example was double what the average income was does not have any effect.
Simply divide the result by two.
 with Social Security, your kids get half of zero.

You still get 3x as much and retire 10 years sooner.


Not that it's a huge amount or anyting, but kids do get SS survivor benefits if they're parents die.  It helped good ol' Paul Ryan paid for college, donchaknow.
 
2014-04-08 12:15:58 PM  

MugzyBrown: JusticeandIndependence: You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011

You're not good at reading.


My mistake, carry on.
 
2014-04-08 12:17:39 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Lawnchair: SlothB77: doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.

The car?  Sure.  That'd be the #1 asset for millions of Americans.  Of course, a lot couldn't readily sell it for much more than they have on the note.

The flat-screen TV?  The 40-50" TVs the middle-class have are $350 or so brand new at Best Buy.  They might get $150 on Craigslist
The couch?  Either they got it used or they're still paying it off.  In any event, dozens of couches are $125 or less on Craigslist in my town.  Hell, a not insignificant number are free.
Bike?  Again, Walmart/Target sell a lot more of them than proper bike shops.  And Walmart/Target bikes ain't worth poop.  $50 at most.  If they did buy a semi-quality Specialized or Trek... $100-150 used.

So, car, yes, that would be the "thing they could sell".  All the other trinkets?  Are pretty much rounding errors in terms of realizable value.

Kids.  They can sell the kids.


www.creatingafamily.org
 
2014-04-08 12:20:16 PM  

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.


You being the one who just proposed a plan that would have moved up the insolvency date of Social Security to later this year is what makes that funny.
 
2014-04-08 12:20:54 PM  

radarlove:  Take it from someone who did precisely what you're talking about a couple of years ago to get over that "emergency hump"- your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

Especially when you're highly motivated to sell now rather than hold out for a better price.

radarlove: Not enough to make rent (and we'd already been skipping meals for a while by that time)


Did you consider food stamps/unemployment/welfare/etc?  I know it's a giant blow to the ego but that really helps weather the emergency hump.  I've been a few months away from where you ended up, fortunately we did find jobs but I had my application in and a meeting all set up with the welfare office.  The funny thing is, with food stamps, my monthly food budget would have gone UP.  Mmmm Ramen Noodles!

radarlove: After I lost my job we lived off of savings and my wife's earnings


Money is supposedly the #1 reason people fight and divorce.  If you guys made it through that, you should be set.
 
2014-04-08 12:21:26 PM  

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.


Nah. If this was the case, government would not limit 401k amounts per year.


Everyone knows an individual can get much more out of their money. SS was never designed to give a cushy retirement for 25 years. What was the average lifetime when it was enacted, 65?
 
2014-04-08 12:21:54 PM  

shirtsbyeric: Aren't we all 17 Trillion in debt?


I am not, just a mortgage. No credit cards, auto or student loans.
 
2014-04-08 12:22:32 PM  

doglover: freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000,

Well you are wrong, unless you're trying to fudge numbers. Even without the kids, you've got two adults on $50k per year. It's doable, but only if plan on working until you die or never, ever having any fun.


Let's get some actual facts on the situation (if it will link anyway).   The median household income for "married couple families" by Census figures is in fact $77,500.  That said, slightly under half of US 'households' fall into that category (there's also non-'household' people, like dorms and jails).
 
2014-04-08 12:24:23 PM  
Does Fark ever have incest threads? Just asking.
 
2014-04-08 12:24:28 PM  

doglover: freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000,

Well you are wrong, unless you're trying to fudge numbers. Even without the kids, you've got two adults on $50k per year. It's doable, but only if plan on working until you die or never, ever having any fun.


I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick, but you're still misusing these numbers in a way that does not allow for a useful discussion. The "median household income" includes large numbers of households containing only non-working students and elderly. (I believe non-working elderly make up 14% of all households.) That's going to completely wreck the data.

Even in 2005, when the median household income was about $46,000, the Census reported dual-earner households to have a median income of $67,000. That's a huge difference.  I can't find the charts again, but I am pretty confident that the median was still higher for couples with two children, presumably because having two children tends to screen out very young couples who haven't started their families yet and also don't have much earning power due to a lack of professional experience.

OH HEY: I just found it for 2012.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/

I'm not going to run the national average on that spreadsheet, but even in Kentucky, the median household income for a 4-person family (which may or may not include two working parents) is nearly $68,000. In neighboring Illinois, perhaps a more representative state, it's over $80,000.
 
2014-04-08 12:25:39 PM  
Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!
 
2014-04-08 12:25:59 PM  
I think most Americans (at least 4 out of 10) don't know how to properly classify a financial emergency.
 
2014-04-08 12:26:01 PM  

BMFPitt: lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.

You being the one who just proposed a plan that would have moved up the insolvency date of Social Security to later this year is what makes that funny.


What the fark are you talking about?  That's not even possible.  We just completely stop collecting Social Security money and we wouldn't reach insolvency for 3+ years.
 
2014-04-08 12:28:17 PM  
4 in 10 is only about 15% so that's not so bad.
 
2014-04-08 12:29:59 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: But it's only $50 a month for satellite.  you can afford that easy.....


A lot of poor rural people have satellite service because it's the only way to get TV or internet (especially since the digital TV switch). By the way, those dishes are practically worthless in the resale market, think $10-$50 worthless.

As others have pointed out, TV and internet service are pretty much non-negotiable in this day and age. I'd sooner get rid of my car than I would get rid of my internet service.
 
2014-04-08 12:30:24 PM  
Lawnchair:That said, slightly under half of US 'households' fall into that category (there's also non-'household' people, like dorms and jails).

I think the link I provided above is more useful for this reason.

"Median 4-person Families" is going to include 4-person families where there is only one parent with three children or where there are two parents, neither of whom work. It's the most suitable representation I can think of for what real people are trying to raise 2.5 children on in America, in the absence of a specific survey of dual-income 2-3 child households.

Interestingly, incomes seem to drop back off in 5-person families and still further in 6-person families. Idiocracy, or something.
 
2014-04-08 12:31:10 PM  
radarlove:
Take it from someone who did precisely what you're talking about a couple of years ago to get over that "emergency hump"- your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

Truth.

I drastically slimmed down my life a while back.  Not out of monetary necessity, but out of desire to simplify my life.  When all was said and done, what I was able to sell paid for the gas, truck, and postage required to get rid of it all.  I might have made $100.

I could have potentially made maybe $500 total.  And that would be with me investing inordinate amounts of time finding the right buyer for everything.
 
2014-04-08 12:31:23 PM  
So 4 in 10 Americans have no TV, video game console, tablet, smart phone, car?

I'd assume that is because 4 in 10 Americans are also under the age of 20.
 
2014-04-08 12:33:09 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


Now recompute for $20k per year of income, not $100k.  It's the min wagers that SS is for, not above average incomes.  But you knew that already, and think the poor should starve to death once they're done serving their masters.

Also, your math is wrong - you won't get 12.5%.  You'll get 6.25%.  That guy paying you gets to keep the other 6.25%, and has no reason to give it to you.
 
2014-04-08 12:34:28 PM  

Serious Black: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


Liberals have assured me that cities are the only acceptable places to live and that cities have adequate public transportation. Also you can walk anywhere or take a taxi.
 
2014-04-08 12:34:46 PM  

Delawheredad: Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!


I hear your pain... one of the things I hope that come out of same sex marriages is that when they start getting divorces they are just as vocal about the inequities in the divorce laws as they were in the marriage laws.

Being the bread winner in a marriage ends up making you a slave in divorce... the only reason why I am not paying alimony now is that I saved up all her credit card debt, by just paying the minimum payments, that she amassed in my name after she left (almost 40k) and would only agree to alimony if she was responsible for the debt... she said it would bankrupt her, so I ate it and in return I never have to pay her another dime.
 
2014-04-08 12:35:40 PM  

Delawheredad: Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!


Same boat.  Ex gets over half of my net income.   I'm still paying off all the communal debt.  I have a tiny house that I
  rent that I can only afford because I'm living in an economically-depressed town.

Still have the CC and L.O.C. debt to pay off--it'll be a couple of years still.
 
2014-04-08 12:37:04 PM  

Stibium: $45 a month for unlimited everything is hardly ridiculous.


You do know that people are able to live without any cell phone at all right?

$45 a month for a year is $540. I cheap burner phone with pay as you go would save you most of that money.

It's fine if you want a smart phone and data plan, but if you have one you can't cry poverty. At best you can cry "poor life choices"
 
2014-04-08 12:37:18 PM  

SpectroBoy: Wasilla Hillbilly: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

Although I don't have any of the things mentioned in your hint, I have to admit that both A and B apply to me and yes, B is the main factor in A. My only 'luxury' is my 3mb DSL connection, which I think would actually end up costing me more if I didn't have it.


I purposely didn't list an internet connection. Having internet can save people a tons of money shopping and also helps with finding a job (or doing a job). I sort of consider internet a staple at this point. It's hard to be a part of society without it.


You can use the internet for free in most  libraries
 
2014-04-08 12:39:02 PM  

Thunderpipes: Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.


You poor baby.

Bless your heart.
 
2014-04-08 12:39:04 PM  
SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.
but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


Rapmaster2000: I forget that old people still think a used flat screen is worth more than $200 after a few years.


And that there is somebody with cash just waiting to buy your used stuff at a price you need.
And then at what point is it that you know you are just giving shiat away?
 
2014-04-08 12:39:43 PM  
*sigh*

That's not even remotely surprising. But, hey, the CEO needs that second boat.
 
2014-04-08 12:41:04 PM  

Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]


People are used to doing things in tens. Ten fingers, ten toes, ten numbers in the decimal system. That is why they use the 4 in 10, even if it is a bad fraction to use.
 
2014-04-08 12:42:07 PM  

TheWhoppah: Failure to raise $2000 for a down payment on an attorney causes students and young adults to plead guilty in cases where they really shouldn't.  Over their lifetime this simple mistake will lower their lifetime earning potential by several hundred thousand dollars.  The mistake is magnified when you consider that they probably COULD have sold their car or borrowed the $2000 from GrandMa if they were not embarrassed to admit they got busted with drugs or for petty theft.


I'm poor because I'm not buying enough lottery tickets. Statistically, it's true.

I'm poor because I'm not beating the wrap often enough. Statistically, it's true.

I'm poor because I make kids I can't feed, clothe or care for, buy cable TV and other stuff that I don't need, oh, refuse to work one job let alone two and I didn't take advantage of the free high school education that my government gave me.
 
2014-04-08 12:42:34 PM  

Fubini: JusticeandIndependence: But it's only $50 a month for satellite.  you can afford that easy.....

A lot of poor rural people have satellite service because it's the only way to get TV or internet (especially since the digital TV switch). By the way, those dishes are practically worthless in the resale market, think $10-$50 worthless.

As others have pointed out, TV and internet service are pretty much non-negotiable in this day and age. I'd sooner get rid of my car than I would get rid of my internet service.


You can use the internet for free in most  libraries
 
2014-04-08 12:42:37 PM  

Thunderpipes: Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.

Don't post numbers in a liberal forum, drives them nuts. Government knows best. People should not be allowed to take care of themselves, it is not fair.


Oh for Christ's sake, he used $100K as his example.  How many of the 4 out of 10 do you think are even close to that?  In order to make money in the market you have to have money to invest in the market in the first place.
 
2014-04-08 12:43:24 PM  

Thunderpipes: Everyone knows an individual can get much more out of their money. SS was never designed to give a cushy retirement for 25 years. What was the average lifetime when it was enacted, 65?


You miss the point. Social Security is not just an investment vehicle. It is also an insurance plan that spreads risk. That lowers your yield, true, but it also lowers your risk.

As an individual your investment choices could leave you unable to support yourself. In the SS pool you are guaranteed the income later.

It's not fair or reasonable to compare returns that are "at risk" to a sure thing.
 
2014-04-08 12:43:33 PM  
At least this thread delivered on the huge pile of self-righteous bastards who have never had a bad thing happen to them, to tell us all how we *should* have been handling our finances since we were 5.

\Thanks, FARK
 
2014-04-08 12:45:23 PM  

SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.


If you think cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix are major sources of financial drain, A is probably where you are at.
 
2014-04-08 12:45:33 PM  
Hope my bookie doesn't read this
 
2014-04-08 12:45:36 PM  

Fubini: As others have pointed out, TV and internet service are pretty much non-negotiable in this day and age.


I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

TV IS NOT NECESSARY

IT"S ENTERTAINMENT


Wanting something does NOT make it non-negotiable. It just makes you someone who makes bad choices.
 
2014-04-08 12:45:50 PM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: doglover: Nutsac_Jim: The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.

Yes. This is totally the majority of all people.

Keep farking that chicken.

So, lest see.  I said "Some people"
and your turned that into "the majority of all people"

Do you always alter someone's argument and defeat it and claim victory?

You haven't given an argument. You've posted some drivel on an internet forum.

Actually develop an argument, toss your hat in the ring, and maybe I'll vote for ya.


Strawman.. ad hominem..  Care for any more fallacies?

Third time is the charm......
 
2014-04-08 12:47:15 PM  

Bullseyed: Liberals have assured me that cities are the only acceptable places to live and that cities have adequate public transportation. Also you can walk anywhere or take a taxi.


I think the point is that not everybody can afford to live out in the country.

And anything is walking distance if you have the time.
 
2014-04-08 12:48:29 PM  

The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries


That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.
 
2014-04-08 12:49:31 PM  

impaler: If you think cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix are major sources of financial drain, A is probably where you are at.


The little things add up.

If you have no financial buffer for emergencies then even small luxuries are a bad life choice.
 
2014-04-08 12:51:39 PM  
Jokes aside, that's pretty damn shocking. For a couple of years after I graduated I carried some credit card debt until I wised the hell up. Since then I've had savings, both sheltered and not. I can't conceive of not being able to come up with $2k if needed.
 
2014-04-08 12:52:18 PM  

Bullseyed: Serious Black: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

Liberals have assured me that cities are the only acceptable places to live and that cities have adequate public transportation. Also you can walk anywhere or take a taxi.


Look, there's a real problem with selling out of your car.  And that is in employment.

On the lower hourly-wage end of life, that is actually a deal-breaker question.  "Do you have a working car?"  No car, no job. Period. This is a little better in urban areas.  But, and I'm not exaggerating this at all, in my childhood hometown you will not get a job at McDonald's or Casey's General Store without owning a car.  This is dumb as all hell.  If you live in that town, it would be physically impossible to be two miles from those establishments.  Flat as a pancake Kansas we're talking about.  Good weather for pedaling most of the time, but most people can walk two miles in weather that stops cars dead. A car should be absolutely unnecessary in that situation, right?  And, yet... no car, no job.
 
2014-04-08 12:52:55 PM  

Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.


Really?

If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)

This is not hard to comprehend.
 
2014-04-08 12:55:21 PM  

The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.


The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.


We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.
 
2014-04-08 12:57:14 PM  

Dimensio: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


That's kind of a point, there - if my LIFE depends on getting $2000, I'm getting it - and I don't care how.
Actually, from society's point of view, it would probably be a good idea to avoid scenarios where people are put in that position.
 
2014-04-08 12:57:26 PM  

SpectroBoy: I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

TV IS NOT NECESSARY

IT"S ENTERTAINMENT

Wanting something does NOT make it non-negotiable. It just makes you someone who makes bad choices.


TV and the internet both provide general news and emergency alert information. A cell phone or weather radio provide can provide emergency alerts, but can't provide further information or general news, and generally don't cover non-weather emergencies.

That certainly justifies having a TV set, and if you don't get over-the-air programming, it justifies an expenditure on cable TV or internet service.

It's also true that some kind of entertainment is warranted, even for the poorest of the poor. If you get over-the-air TV, or live next to a library or something, then that's great, but not everyone has access to that.
 
2014-04-08 12:57:38 PM  

Bullseyed: So 4 in 10 Americans have no TV, video game console, tablet, smart phone, car?


I don't think my 8 year old Vizio, half-broken Wii, tablet that cost $150 new, 3 year old phone, and car nearing a quarter million miles are worth as much as you they are.

Why do old people think everything with an LCD screen can be sold for decent money?

/ Could get $2000 together in about 20 minutes. Just not from selling my nearly worthless shiat.
 
2014-04-08 12:58:13 PM  
limeyfellow:

People are used to doing things in tens. Ten fingers, ten toes, ten numbers in the decimal system. That is why they use the 4 in 10, even if it is a bad fraction to use.

*looks at both hands*

*looks at one hand*

Whoa. I could have figured out 2 out of 5 even easier.

/ Have you ever thought about your hands, man?
 
2014-04-08 12:58:20 PM  

MadHatter500: Now recompute for $20k per year of income, not $100k.  It's the min wagers that SS is for, not above average incomes.  But you knew that already, and think the poor should starve to death once they're done serving their masters.

Also, your math is wrong - you won't get 12.5%.  You'll get 6.25%.  That guy paying you gets to keep the other 6.25%, and has no reason to give it to you.



If you want to use 20k, fine.  Multiple everything by 1/5.

You still steal all the social security from poor people when they die at 61.  But you knew that, didn't you.

You get 12.5%, if you are self employed and pay the actual social security tax.


If you are a 6.25% er, then you might not get it.  Odds are you will, or Spacely's Sprockets will get all of Cogswell's Cogs' good employees, because Spacely gave the 6.25% to the employees.
 
2014-04-08 01:00:42 PM  
Is the statistic based on who doesn't have access to two thousand dollars cash? Because that would be me.

Or does it include people who can't get $2000 in a very short period of time - Not me, I have good credit and could get a short term loan from the bank.
 
2014-04-08 01:00:56 PM  

Fubini: TV and the internet both provide general news and emergency alert information. A cell phone or weather radio provide can provide emergency alerts, but can't provide further information or general news, and generally don't cover non-weather emergencies.


Many many people struggling to get by are looking for more/better jobs so they can pay for shiat.  To do that, you have to apply for jobs.  The main method for applying for jobs these days is the internet.  When an employer is interested in your application/resumé they have to contact you to set up either a phone interview or an in person interview.  How are they going to contact someone who doesn't have internet or phone?

Anyone who doesn't think internet/phone are a necessity these days has never searched for a job.
 
2014-04-08 01:03:52 PM  

The Missing Link: If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)


Food, water, shelter are biological necessities. Economic necessity is a secure source of income and social necessity is a reasonable way to understand and interact with the world. Lots of jobs effectively require an internet connection at home, either to apply or to have, and lots of companies and agencies primarily interact with customers through the internet these days.

At the very least, you're at a huge disadvantage if you don't have a reliable internet connection. Think about a person who has to use paper-bound yellow pages to look up phone numbers, call offices, wait to talk to someone in person, etc. That worked great twenty years ago, but the world just isn't organized that way anymore.
 
2014-04-08 01:04:10 PM  

MadHatter500: Now recompute for $20k per year of income, not $100k.  It's the min wagers that SS is for, not above average incomes.



282,754.89   or $943 a month.

vs

$669.00/mo  from Social security.


♫  Just come on back if you ever wanna try again ♫
 
2014-04-08 01:05:20 PM  
I'm confused... are we advocating the murder of the financial top or are we having savings pissing contests?  Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of both.

OH! Let's compare the cost of our plans for offing CEOs!

I say the most cost-effective is going to be black powder explosives.  You can get the materials cheap and do a lot of damage.  I'm assuming urban deployment.
 
2014-04-08 01:05:24 PM  
Either I am relatively well-off, or I am even more successful at being a tightwad cheapskate than I had realised.

/No cable TV.
//No Netflix.
 
2014-04-08 01:06:24 PM  

Delawheredad: Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!


Not if done properly.

/much better off now even paing 1k a month in child support
//she shoulda lawyered up.
 
2014-04-08 01:06:34 PM  

SpectroBoy: TV IS NOT NECESSARY

IT"S ENTERTAINMENT


Wanting something does NOT make it non-negotiable. It just makes you someone who makes bad choices.


Humans are creatures that NEED to be entertained, and as far as cost-effective entertainment goes, TV is about the highest bang for the buck.

If you think people's route to financial prosperity is anyway affected by owning a TV, you suck at math.
 
2014-04-08 01:07:44 PM  

Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]


Most journalists are so because they sucked at everything else.  This writer may not realize 2/5 and 4/10 are the same thing. If you want to blow his mind, tell him that is 40%.
 
2014-04-08 01:09:54 PM  
If I can pump enough caps in the heads of potential Walmart customers, I can probably scrape up 2K.
 
2014-04-08 01:10:21 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Bullseyed: So 4 in 10 Americans have no TV, video game console, tablet, smart phone, car?

I don't think my 8 year old Vizio, half-broken Wii, tablet that cost $150 new, 3 year old phone, and car nearing a quarter million miles are worth as much as you they are.

Why do old people think everything with an LCD screen can be sold for decent money?

/ Could get $2000 together in about 20 minutes. Just not from selling my nearly worthless shiat.


There's probably at least that much in Lovey's bra.
 
2014-04-08 01:13:40 PM  

Dimensio: Either I am relatively well-off, or I am even more successful at being a tightwad cheapskate than I had realised.

/No cable TV.
//No Netflix.


but still found $5 a month to give to Drew for his beer budget
 
2014-04-08 01:13:47 PM  

Jument: Jokes aside, that's pretty damn shocking. For a couple of years after I graduated I carried some credit card debt until I wised the hell up. Since then I've had savings, both sheltered and not. I can't conceive of not being able to come up with $2k if needed.


My wife worried about this too.  Then one day she figured the solution was to marry a guy and transfer
the worrying about from where the $2k over to some me.

Problem solved.
 
2014-04-08 01:15:08 PM  

lennavan: Especially when you're highly motivated to sell now rather than hold out for a better price.


Bingo.  Can't tell you how often we wished we'd just had more time to sell that stuff.  But landlords hold little respect for the nuances of successful negotiation.

lennavan: Did you consider food stamps/unemployment/welfare/etc? I know it's a giant blow to the ego but that really helps weather the emergency hump.


I've held off on doing that at great expense to my health.  I'm at the point now where I only eat once every two or three days and sometimes sleep even less.  I could describe a litany of symptoms that would rid the thread of the squeamish.

So why hold off?  Why not get on government assistance?

FARK-dot-motherfarking-com

I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register.  Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.  And that isn't something I ever want to be.  I loathe inflicting hardship or even mere inconvenience upon people.  That's just who I am.  I also have particularly low self-worth at this point, so statements that the poor are poor because of what shiatty failures of people they are resonate particularly strongly with me.

I'm trying to look past those voices lately.  I'm not in a location where there are people to assist me with any kind of governmental assistance but my primary focus right now needs to be mental healthcare.  As I'm sure you can infer at this point, a rough spell has taken its toll on an already unstable psychology, so progress on that needs to be made before any more can.  There's a center a couple of hours away that I've heard might offer indigent care, so I'm going to try to find a way to check them out to see if they can get me some help.

To the Farkers on the right-hand side of this thread, I am really, truly, genuinely sorry that I am going to have to do that.  It absolutely rends my heart to take from those who have not offered to give.  But I fear that the harm I may cause some of you by not going on some form of government assistance may be far greater than the harm I will surely inflict upon all of you if I do.

lennavan: Money is supposedly the #1 reason people fight and divorce. If you guys made it through that, you should be set.


I'm afraid this looks to be far from over.  The strain on the marriage is incredible.  Several times I've told myself and her that I'd leave her just to save her from the inevitable implosion, but she insists on staying.  Now I'm in freefall and she's still holding this whole thing together.  She's got to work just to keep us alive AND take care of this psychotic mess when she gets home.  And she's still around.  Says she ain't going nowhere and neither am I (though I don't know where the hell I'd go if we ever did split up).  She's an amazing woman and I'm acutely aware of how lucky I am.  =)
 
2014-04-08 01:20:08 PM  
Naw, I could come up with it. But that's only because I would be willing to do ANYTHING
 
2014-04-08 01:21:00 PM  

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: If I can pump enough caps in the heads of potential Walmart customers, I can probably scrape up 2K.


you can't get cash for food stamps quickly....
 
2014-04-08 01:21:36 PM  
Well, if my numbers hit tonight, I'll have $2000. Otherwise yeah, I'm broke.
 
2014-04-08 01:22:02 PM  
I'm 27 and make 47000 a year. I can look at hitting the 65-70k mark in about a year unless shiat hits the fan nationwide. I have 0 student loan debt and one credit card with a limit of 1500 for emergencies.

Having a girlfriend sucks sometimes since money is always spent regardless of how small and low key we keep it. If she moves in with me at the end of the summer my mortgage payment gets cut in half and maybe I can get a new car.
 
2014-04-08 01:24:37 PM  

radarlove: I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register. Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.


No one on Fark talks like that. Go get help, man!
 
2014-04-08 01:25:20 PM  

The Singing Bush: Nutsac_Jim: E5bie:  
 

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on (minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) ,  

To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn' ...


What does healthcare have to do with Social security.   Healthcare is a very complicated issue.

The item being discussed was saving for retirement.

Pointing out that the example was double what the average income was does not have any effect.
Simply divide the result by two.
 with Social Security, your kids get half of zero.

You still get 3x as much and retire 10 years sooner.

Not that it's a huge amount or anyting, but kids do get SS survivor benefits if they're parents die.  It helped good ol' Paul Ryan paid for college, donchaknow.


In hindsight, I'm sure glad I had them. Dad blew his brains out when I was 7 years old, I have a mentally disabled brother 4 years older. Mom blew through the federal employee death benefit (Army Corps of Engineers in `84) of $250K in just 2 and a half years.

We lived like trash on that benefit thanks to a nearly criminally stupid surviving parent. I'm glad it existed. I am convinced we would have spent time homeless without it.
 
2014-04-08 01:27:37 PM  

fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.


your baby step is probably too big for many right now as $1,500 all at once is a big hit to alot of people, i for example would have to split it over 3 months.
 
2014-04-08 01:30:44 PM  

radarlove: lennavan: Especially when you're highly motivated to sell now rather than hold out for a better price.

Bingo.  Can't tell you how often we wished we'd just had more time to sell that stuff.  But landlords hold little respect for the nuances of successful negotiation.

lennavan: Did you consider food stamps/unemployment/welfare/etc? I know it's a giant blow to the ego but that really helps weather the emergency hump.

I've held off on doing that at great expense to my health.  I'm at the point now where I only eat once every two or three days and sometimes sleep even less.  I could describe a litany of symptoms that would rid the thread of the squeamish.

So why hold off?  Why not get on government assistance?

FARK-dot-motherfarking-com

I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register.  Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.  And that isn't something I ever want to be.  I loathe inflicting hardship or even mere inconvenience upon people.  That's just who I am.  I also have particularly low self-worth at this point, so statements that the poor are poor because of what shiatty failures of people they are resonate particularly strongly with me.

I'm trying to look past those voices lately.  I'm not in a location where there are people to assist me with any kind of governmental assistance but my primary focus right now needs to be mental healthcare.  As I'm sure you can infer at this point, a rough spell has taken its toll on an already unstable psychology, so progress on that needs to be made before any more can.  There's a center a couple of hours away that I've heard might offer indigent care, so I'm going to try to find a way to check them out to see i ...


Dude if you need assistance, get it. No one is going to bemoan you for it.

The 'rights/conservative' view is there are a lot of people that need help, whether its medical, financial, etc and that they should get it. But there are also those that game the system so they don't have to do anything. That's why those on the right want those people kicked off assistance.

Give help to those that need it. Don't give help to those that don't help themselves. Big difference.
 
2014-04-08 01:32:20 PM  
Linux_Yes:  methinks

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-08 01:32:54 PM  
Good grief. If you are over 40 years old and don't have $2K on hand you have made some poor decisions.

I have two bicycles that are each worth way more than $2K if I had to liquidate something. I wouldn't though since I haven't wasted tens of thousands on kids and cigarettes.
 
2014-04-08 01:33:56 PM  

Dimensio: Either I am relatively well-off, or I am even more successful at being a tightwad cheapskate than I had realised.

/No cable TV.
//No Netflix.


More likely is that you just don't have a realistic conception of what it means to be poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

The median aged 25+ full-time worker with no college experience makes $31.5K per year. If they didn't finish high school that drops to $25K per year. Remember that those are medians, so half of all people in that category make less than that.

If you factor out retirees, about 45% of full time working adults between the ages of 25 and 64 make less than $25,000 per year.

About 20% of individual Americans make less than $10K per year.
 
2014-04-08 01:35:31 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.

This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"


Yeah, fark the electric company, water company etc.  Screw the grocery store too!  I dont know about you, but $85 a week is a lot of money just to park when you may have other bills to pay.
 
2014-04-08 01:37:07 PM  

doglover: radarlove: I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register. Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.

No one on Fark talks like that. Go get help, man!


Seriously. There's a support network out there for you. People who tell you you're worthless for taking public assistance in any form have been borrowing from family for years.

Love yourself and take some public money and rub it all over your body.

Just because you start doesn't mean you can't stop assistance. Hell, the government will stop it for you.

Additionally, there are charitable organizations like Sally's Army that may help you.
 
2014-04-08 01:37:12 PM  

The Missing Link: Really?

If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)

This is not hard to comprehend.


There are a few phrases I use as a barometer to determine if someone is capable of having an honest conversation.  This is one of them.
 
2014-04-08 01:37:14 PM  

Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.


If you live in the United States, you're almost guaranteed to have access to a library and internet.  There are more libraries here than McDonald's.  Some of the poorer reservation libraries I've found lack internet access, but it's pretty standard most other places.  So access to public internet is there, but it's also a tremendous pain in the ass.  You've got to find a library, get to a library, hope there's not a huge queue to use the machines, hope there are no time-sensitive emails from potential employers, search a dozen sites for job leads and check in with mom all before the next guy in line starts getting too antsy or before the librarian starts harping on you about time limits.  It's all doable but it sucks up a huge chunk of your time that you need to be spending hitting the pavement to follow up on the bullshiat leads you found online which almost never end up panning out.  Sort of ends up resulting in a big Catch-22.
 
2014-04-08 01:38:31 PM  

Tonto's Expanding Headband: Good grief. If you are over 40 years old and don't have $2K on hand you have made some poor decisions.

I have two bicycles that are each worth way more than $2K if I had to liquidate something. I wouldn't though since I haven't wasted tens of thousands on kids and cigarettes.


Im well over 40 and do not have 2K on hand.  I also do not have a couple of bikes worth that much money.  To me, thats a huge waste of cash.  Yes, Ive made some shiatty decisions and my situation is totally my fault, but I also do not make a lot vs. what I have going out.
 
2014-04-08 01:40:36 PM  

The Missing Link: If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity


Really?  What if you work from home and are required to have Internet access?

It would be nice if people who have enough money would stop telling people who don't what is and isn't a necessity.   Or at least try to picture yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while.
 
2014-04-08 01:42:53 PM  

WienerButt: I'm 27 and make 47000 a year. I can look at hitting the 65-70k mark in about a year unless shiat hits the fan nationwide. I have 0 student loan debt and one credit card with a limit of 1500 for emergencies.

Having a girlfriend sucks sometimes since money is always spent regardless of how small and low key we keep it. If she moves in with me at the end of the summer my mortgage payment gets cut in half and maybe I can get a new car.


LoL.
 
2014-04-08 01:43:19 PM  

radarlove: If you live in the United States, you're almost guaranteed to have access to a library and internet.


No, you are not.
 
2014-04-08 01:43:41 PM  

lennavan: The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.

The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.

We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.


Actually, this person sounds to me like they've spent time truly thinking about the subject. Many life-long middle class (and higher) folks I've met never think twice about a small luxury. In my own experience, I feel like those who do pinch all types of pennies have spent appreciable time being poor, or are an engineer =)

Be poor long enough and the decisions really do become that black and white easy. Think about how my generation's (GenX) grandparents behaved due to experiencing the Great Depression. Our parents (their kids) sure acted differently in an America of absolute abundance...
 
2014-04-08 01:44:06 PM  

grimlock1972: fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.

your baby step is probably too big for many right now as $1,500 all at once is a big hit to alot of people, i for example would have to split it over 3 months.


Then take three months.  Heck, take 4.  Then take the money that you were putting to the emergency fund, cut WAY the hell back on your WRITTEN budget and start digging into the rest of the debt.    When I finally decided to get my financial shiat in order (and it was a basket case), it took me a little over two years to clear out credit card debt, car loan, and some misc debt.  I didn't get into that hole overnight, and I didn't get OUT overnight.
 
2014-04-08 01:44:24 PM  

Fubini: TV and the internet both provide general news and emergency alert information. A cell phone or weather radio provide can provide emergency alerts, but can't provide further information or general news, and generally don't cover non-weather emergencies.

That certainly justifies having a TV set, and if you don't get over-the-air programming, it justifies an expenditure on cable TV or internet service.

It's also true that some kind of entertainment is warranted, even for the poorest of the poor. If you get over-the-air TV, or live next to a library or something, then that's great, but not everyone has access to that.



I do not believe "in home entertainment that costs money" is a necessity. Read a library book. Listen to the radio. Play cards. Whittle. People lived for thousands of years without electronic entertainment.

Radio also covers emergencies. I don;t believe for a minute  someone needs a smart phone and cable tv "just in case something happens".

Necessities are food, shelter, medical care, etc. Not cable TV.
 
2014-04-08 01:45:53 PM  

sigdiamond2000: I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.


if you have tons of different funds in your 401k, you are actually losing money to management fees.  You shouldn't have more then 2 or 3 different funds, or your gains are being eaten away.

// not so smart now, are you?
// fart
 
2014-04-08 01:47:15 PM  

radarlove: Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.

If you live in the United States, you're almost guaranteed to have access to a library and internet.  There are more libraries here than McDonald's.  Some of the poorer reservation libraries I've found lack internet access, but it's pretty standard most other places.  So access to public internet is there, but it's also a tremendous pain in the ass.  You've got to find a library, get to a library, hope there's not a huge queue to use the machines, hope there are no time-sensitive emails from potential employers, search a dozen sites for job leads and check in with mom all before the next guy in line starts getting too antsy or before the librarian starts harping on you about time limits.  It's all doable but it sucks up a huge chunk of your time that you need to be spending hitting the pavement to follow up on the bullshiat leads you found online which almost never end up panning out.  Sort of ends up resulting in a big Catch-22.


Huh. Turns out you're right.

Number of public libraries: 16,415
Number of McDonalds: 14,268

I agree with pretty much all of the caveats you've endorsed. It's a great safety net, but relying on the library for internet access is not a very good long-term strategy.
 
2014-04-08 01:47:23 PM  

impaler: Humans are creatures that NEED to be entertained, and as far as cost-effective entertainment goes, TV is about the highest bang for the buck.

If you think people's route to financial prosperity is anyway affected by owning a TV, you suck at math.



People somehow managed to survive through most of human history without television. Read a library book. Go for a walk. Listen to free radio. Play cards.

There is no way a monthly TV bill is a good idea if you are struggling to make ends meet. No how. No way. It is a luxury.
 
2014-04-08 01:48:40 PM  

radarlove: Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.


Stop being stupid.  When you don't need it, you pay for the safety net.  When you do need it, you take full advantage of it and do the best you can to get back on your feet.  Then you pay back in.  It's the exact same thing as insurance -- not everyone needs it but no one feels like a leech when they want insurance to pay for stuff.

radarlove: I loathe inflicting hardship or even mere inconvenience upon people.


You're not.  Whether you decide to use it or not, everyone else is going to pay in the same amount.

radarlove: That's just who I am.


That's a cop out.  You aren't your thoughts, you are your actions.  Find yourself thinking whatever you wish but put in your application for the services.

radarlove: I'm not in a location where there are people to assist me with any kind of governmental assistance but my primary focus right now needs to be mental healthcare.


The underlying cause is no doubt your current financial situation.  Dude, just throw down an application.  Here, that application gets you nothing except an in person meeting.  So just send in the application and go to the meeting.  Worry about the rest from there.

radarlove: I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register. Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people


Same here.  It wasn't very long ago my wife and I nearly ended up where you're at.  We lucked out and found jobs.  But I had the meeting all setup.  I wasn't exactly "stoked" to go.  What am I going to do next time I'm there?  Well I'll remember your post and think maybe I should toughen up and skip a few meals and not set up that meeting because you weren't a leech and had it worse.  Alternatively, you can send me an email (EIP) and let me know how your meeting goes, kill a teenie bit of the stigma for me and next time I'm in the situation I'll be able to tell myself this other guy did it, so I guess maybe it's slightly more okay and think I'm glad I read your post.

No pressure.  :-)
 
2014-04-08 01:49:01 PM  

pacified: sigdiamond2000: I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.

if you have tons of different funds in your 401k, you are actually losing money to management fees.  You shouldn't have more then 2 or 3 different funds, or your gains are being eaten away.

// not so smart now, are you?
// fart


I assumed he was talking about his entire investment portfolio, not just his 401k.

It was a pretty good joke too.
 
2014-04-08 01:51:47 PM  

itsaidwhat: TheWhoppah: Failure to raise $2000 for a down payment on an attorney causes students and young adults to plead guilty in cases where they really shouldn't.  Over their lifetime this simple mistake will lower their lifetime earning potential by several hundred thousand dollars.  The mistake is magnified when you consider that they probably COULD have sold their car or borrowed the $2000 from GrandMa if they were not embarrassed to admit they got busted with drugs or for petty theft.

I'm poor because I'm not buying enough lottery tickets. Statistically, it's true.

I'm poor because I'm not beating the wrap often enough. Statistically, it's true.

I'm poor because I make kids I can't feed, clothe or care for, buy cable TV and other stuff that I don't need, oh, refuse to work one job let alone two and I didn't take advantage of the free high school education that my government gave me.



And you will be even more poor with a conviction on your criminal history than without.
 
2014-04-08 01:51:52 PM  

pacified: sigdiamond2000: I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.

if you have tons of different funds in your 401k, you are actually losing money to management fees.  You shouldn't have more then 2 or 3 different funds, or your gains are being eaten away.

// not so smart now, are you?
// fart


notsureifserious.jpg

If you are serious, that's not how management fees work.  If not, well, then I'm an idiot.
 
2014-04-08 01:53:12 PM  

Dadoody: I have about 250k I could pull out and still be debt free.

I know people my age who've worked the same jobs as me and have made as much or more, and can't seem to save a dime of it, so unless you've got mental disabilities, there is no reason you couldn't have worked and saved or invested money in a way to grow it and have some for a rainy day unless you've made some poor life choices, and let's face it.....4 in 10 Americans usually do make some pretty lousy life choices.


This is not a popular thing to say, but it's true. Go down to the local supermarket where people are shopping with WIC - they have expensive clothes, cell phones, and all manner of toys. Most usually have electronic entertainment at home. My wife's kin in Appalachia are exemplars of this - poor white trash, always broke, but with more toys, gadgets, and superfluous garbage than you can shake a stick at. Drive down the back roads, you'll see all sorts of satellite dishes and shiny new cars in front of farking bleached-out shacks.

Poor people aren't poor just because of bad wealth distribution or evil corporations - they're also (and in some cases, solely) poor because they make bad decisions.
 
2014-04-08 01:55:34 PM  

The Missing Link: Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.

Really?

If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)

This is not hard to comprehend.


Internet is a necessity these days. Libraries are not convenient to everyone, especially in poor areas, and the internet is the only way to find and apply for many, if not most, jobs today. A phone is absolutely a necessity, and cell phones these days can be incredibly cheap to buy, and you can get incredibly cheap plans. They are important as a tool so that you can contact employers and so employers can contact you.

This is not hard to comprehend.
 
2014-04-08 01:55:37 PM  

Lagaidh: lennavan: The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.

The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.

We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.

Actually, this person sounds to me like they've spent time truly thinking about the subject. Many life-long middle class (and higher) folks I've met never think twice about a small luxury. In my own experience, I feel like those who do pinch all types of pennies have spent appreciable time being poor, or are an engineer =)

Be poor long enough and the decisions really do become that black and white easy. Think about how my generation's (GenX) grandparents behaved due to experiencing the Great Depression. Our parents (their kids) sure acted differently in an America of absolute abundance...


I think everyone should have to have some sort of learning situation where they are given money and then go through it and then get into debt. Mine was definitely college where I ran up like 2k on my CC and realized that if I didn't pay it off, how much I'd owe over the years paying it off. Paid that sh-t off in 3 months working my ass off. After that I saved saved saved and I definitely think not a few months down the road, but like 5 years down the road and always 'what if I lose my job" mentality. Weird way to live but it keeps at least financial stress away because I've put a good amount away for a rainy season.
 
2014-04-08 01:58:22 PM  

Lagaidh: lennavan: The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.

The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.

We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.

Actually, this person sounds to me like they've spent time truly thinking about the subject. Many life-long middle class (and higher) folks I've met never think twice about a small luxury. In my own experience, I feel like those who do pinch all types of pennies have spent appreciable time being poor, or are an engineer =)

Be poor long enough and the decisions really do become that black and white easy. Think about how my generation's (GenX) grandparents behaved due to experiencing the Great Depression. Our parents (their kids) sure acted differently in an America of absolute abundance...



I have no doubt he has spent plenty of time thinking about it.  The problem is what he totally imagined doesn't match reality.  He suggests someone perform a job search without internet and a phone.  You gotta be shiatting me with this stuff.  I know he totally imagines going door to door asking for a job works.  I agree, he has thought about how great of a method that would be.  I also have zero doubt he has never actually done it himself.
 
2014-04-08 01:59:56 PM  

Witness99: Naw, I could come up with it. But that's only because I would be willing to do ANYTHING


I said it earlier, and I'll say it again:  Your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

JC22: No one is going to bemoan you for it.


I don't care about being bemoaned.  People's perceptions of me are irrelevant to me.  If they were I wouldn't be posting any of this.  And if that was why I've done what I've done so far, I wouldn't be genuinely contrite when I apologize to those whom I'm taking from.  I simply sincerely do not want to take from people who do not want to give.  It in my mind is the same as thievery.  I do not take what is not given.  I realize that codes have largely fallen by the wayside in this day and age but I still live by one.

JC22: But there are also those that game the system so they don't have to do anything. That's why those on the right want those people kicked off assistance.


The problem here is that in my time among the impoverished, and that time has been considerable, I have met a lot of poor individuals on public assistance.  A LOT.  I would venture an estimate that around 80%-85% of the people that I've met in my life live far below the poverty line and are on some kind of benefits.  Out of all the people I've met, not a single one appeared to be "gaming the system."  Or, from a different perspective, all of us are.  Maybe if we just pushed a little harder, worked ourselves a little more raw, we wouldn't need that assistance.  But for whatever reason, we didn't.

That's the laziness of which the critical side speaks.  That's how people "game the system."  What you purport to attack is a fallacy- a boogeyman.  What you hit is us.

TheShavingofOccam123: There's a support network out there for you.


I'm looking into said network.  Thanks man.  =)
 
2014-04-08 02:02:26 PM  
In January 2012, the average cable TV subscriber paid nearly three times as much for cable then as they did in 2001, according to research by SNL Kagan cited by the Wall Street Journal. The jump in average prices amoundted to about $128 per month from $48.

Cable prices have risen 6 percent this last July over the previous year.

The first thing you do to solve a problem is to admit there's a problem. And the problem is not how you prepare crumbs.
 
2014-04-08 02:03:01 PM  

BigChad: I'm this close...


[i188.photobucket.com image 750x600]


I see this thread is too serious for this, but here it is anyway:
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

/my circumstances are taking a turn for the worse, where I'll be cutting a lot of luxuries I've been lucky to have so far.
 
2014-04-08 02:03:12 PM  

SpectroBoy: There is no way a monthly TV bill is a good idea if you are struggling to make ends meet. No how. No way. It is a luxury.


It's also still possible to watch TV without a monthly bill. It involves a funny looking thing you mount on the wall with silver looking things coming out of it...

Or just ditch the TV and get a netflix subscription to go with the internet access and the laptop, which should be priorities. It's not hard or expensive to get an old, used laptop capable of streaming video these days. Hell, go ahead and download shait.
 
2014-04-08 02:04:32 PM  

Pincy: It would be nice if people who have enough money would stop telling people who don't what is and isn't a necessity.   Or at least try to picture yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while.


Some people have already decided that if you're poor, that means that you've done something wrong to screw up your own life. They reject the idea that there can be no-fault poorness. If someone is poor, it's obviously their fault that they have cable TV, or internet, or something else, because they should have been smart enough to see the future and know they'd have an unexpected $2K or $5K or $10K bill and if they hadn't been so stupid with their money in the past then they'd be in good shape for the future.

Yes, it's important to have an emergency fund, we can all agree on that. If I live on $1K a month, my 12-month emergency fund is only $12K. That comes out to be a single major home repair or medical bill.

You can't fault poor people for not having significant liquid assets. They're poor, by definition they won't have those things. You have to accept that poor people are fundamentally less economically secure than others. If they weren't we wouldn't call it poor, we'd  call it "making less money".
 
2014-04-08 02:04:40 PM  

Carousel Beast: Dadoody: I have about 250k I could pull out and still be debt free.

I know people my age who've worked the same jobs as me and have made as much or more, and can't seem to save a dime of it, so unless you've got mental disabilities, there is no reason you couldn't have worked and saved or invested money in a way to grow it and have some for a rainy day unless you've made some poor life choices, and let's face it.....4 in 10 Americans usually do make some pretty lousy life choices.

This is not a popular thing to say, but it's true. Go down to the local supermarket where people are shopping with WIC - they have expensive clothes, cell phones, and all manner of toys. Most usually have electronic entertainment at home. My wife's kin in Appalachia are exemplars of this - poor white trash, always broke, but with more toys, gadgets, and superfluous garbage than you can shake a stick at. Drive down the back roads, you'll see all sorts of satellite dishes and shiny new cars in front of farking bleached-out shacks.

Poor people aren't poor just because of bad wealth distribution or evil corporations - they're also (and in some cases, solely) poor because they make bad decisions.


Now we all know that no matter how much gold the American Bald Eagle shiats into the hands of every man woman and child in the land that there are always going to be poor people due to stupidity right?

The problems America face now are because smart, responsible people are getting farked over sometimes. Agreed, for every story that is sad, there's usually more than one party to share blame...

I'd rather prop up some that take advantage of the safety nets than to find that net impossible to land on if I  need it.
 
2014-04-08 02:04:59 PM  

radarlove: People's perceptions of me are irrelevant to me.  If they were I wouldn't be posting any of this.  And if that was why I've done what I've done so far, I wouldn't be genuinely contrite when I apologize to those whom I'm taking from.  I simply sincerely do not want to take from people who do not want to give.


I am fortunate enough to make a pretty decent salary. I would rather my tax dollars go to help you out than most of the other crap our government pays for. Imagine all the assistance you get to help you get back on your feet comes from me and people who think like me.

You are welcome.
 
2014-04-08 02:05:21 PM  
My brother took money out of his 401k and bought a Harley.... He doesn't understand why I stopped putting money into college funds for HIS kids after that.
 
2014-04-08 02:09:42 PM  

monoski: Dimensio: Either I am relatively well-off, or I am even more successful at being a tightwad cheapskate than I had realised.

/No cable TV.
//No Netflix.

but still found $5 a month to give to Drew for his beer budget


You are mistaken: my TotalFark membership is sponsored.
 
2014-04-08 02:10:48 PM  

Dimensio: monoski: Dimensio: Either I am relatively well-off, or I am even more successful at being a tightwad cheapskate than I had realised.

/No cable TV.
//No Netflix.

but still found $5 a month to give to Drew for his beer budget

You are mistaken: my TotalFark membership is sponsored.


You found your answer then!
 
2014-04-08 02:11:33 PM  

lennavan: Lagaidh: lennavan: The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.

The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.

We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.

Actually, this person sounds to me like they've spent time truly thinking about the subject. Many life-long middle class (and higher) folks I've met never think twice about a small luxury. In my own experience, I feel like those who do pinch all types of pennies have spent appreciable time being poor, or are an engineer =)

Be poor long enough and the decisions really do become that black and white easy. Think about how my generation's (GenX) grandparents behaved due to experiencing the Great Depression. Our parents (their kids) sure acted differently in an America of absolute abundance...

I have no doubt he has spent plenty of time thinking about it.  The problem is what he totally imagined doesn't match reality.  He suggests someone perform a job search without internet and a phone.  You gotta be shiatting me with this stuff.  I know he totally imagines going door to door asking for a job works.  I agree, he has thought about how great of a method that would be.  I also have zero doubt he has never actually done it himself.


I'll only mention that I'm a programmer with 12 years' experience (holy shiat when did THAT happen) to say I understand how software is used and created. I will tell you it is most certainly possible to get a job without the internet. Are you thinking about construction? I wired houses for years and never looked up a job posting for an electrician online. I dug ditches. I performed side software development.

He's trying to say that humans can do anything they can think of, even if it is incredibly inconvenient and difficult.

I too marvel at a single race whose members simultaneously include amputees that run marathons and persons claiming that finding a job without the internet is "impossible".
 
2014-04-08 02:11:58 PM  

thermo: My brother took money out of his 401k and bought a Harley.... He doesn't understand why I stopped putting money into college funds for HIS kids after that.


Hope he gets some life insurance to help those kids out. A friend of mine just got taken out on his Harley.
 
2014-04-08 02:12:31 PM  

cptjeff: Internet is a necessity these days. Libraries are not convenient to everyone, especially in poor areas, and the internet is the only way to find and apply for many, if not most, jobs today. A phone is absolutely a necessity, and cell phones these days can be incredibly cheap to buy, and you can get incredibly cheap plans. They are important as a tool so that you can contact employers and so employers can contact you.


Even in dense urban areas, the poor can't necessarily use libraries for internet. Suppose you don't have a car, a library might be a mile or more distant from your residence. That means you've got to walk/bike/bus/train to get there, which is going to take up time, then you might have to wait to use the computer at the library, and then you've got to get home somehow. It turns checking your email into an hour long process- not very feasible if you need to check it every day for job applications and whatnot.

Like I said above, the attitude of some people is "They're poor so they must be doing something wrong. Either they're paying for something they don't need, or they're not aware of government service that would make things cheaper for them, or they're just bad at money or impulse control."
 
2014-04-08 02:15:39 PM  

thermo: My brother took money out of his 401k and bought a Harley.... He doesn't understand why I stopped putting money into college funds for HIS kids after that.


What fund will he raid when he needs a new Corvette, then?
 
2014-04-08 02:24:05 PM  
ITT: "I'm the bootstrappiest bootstrapper who ever bootstrapped! If you're poor it's because you're stupid! Buying anything is stupid! Look at meeeeeee!"
 
2014-04-08 02:25:14 PM  

Fubini: Even in dense urban areas, the poor can't necessarily use libraries for internet. Suppose you don't have a car, a library might be a mile or more distant from your residence. That means you've got to walk/bike/bus/train to get there, which is going to take up time, then you might have to wait to use the computer at the library, and then you've got to get home somehow. It turns checking your email into an hour long process- not very feasible if you need to check it every day for job applications and whatnot.


Yes, because someone who is unemployed has a hard time finding an hour to check his email.

I am not trying to make light of the plight of the poor, I have been there and it sucks. But there are TONS of programs to help them out. The problem is educating them about their options.

In some places low income families can get internet for 10 bucks a month and a $149 voucher for a computer (good enough for a chromebook, I use one and they can do quite a bit).

Service Details:
Internet Essentials participants will receive:
Residential Internet service for $9.95 a month + applicable taxes;
No price increases, no activation fees, or equipment rental fees;
A voucher to purchase a low-cost computer for $149.99 + tax; and
Access to free digital literacy training in print, online and in person.
Additional benefits include the Norton™ Security Suite ($160 value) for comprehensive online security protection at no additional cost.


https://www.sau81.org/content/comcast-offers-low-income-families-affo r dable-internet-and-computer-access
 
2014-04-08 02:25:32 PM  

cptjeff: The Missing Link: Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.

Really?

If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)

This is not hard to comprehend.

Internet is a necessity these days. Libraries are not convenient to everyone, especially in poor areas, and the internet is the only way to find and apply for many, if not most, jobs today. A phone is absolutely a necessity, and cell phones these days can be incredibly cheap to buy, and you can get incredibly cheap plans. They are important as a tool so that you can contact employers and so employers can contact you.

This is not hard to comprehend.


I think the key word here is convenient. We are talking about necessities vs luxuries. By saying something is a convenience you are saying it is a luxury.

It would have been much more  convenient for my father if he did not have to work to or three jobs in order to provide the necessities and a good education.

Convenience doe not equal necessity convenience equal luxury
 
2014-04-08 02:31:47 PM  
I can't do it on the spur of the moment, but I can have $2000 by the end of the week if you don't ask too many questions.
 
2014-04-08 02:32:36 PM  

jst3p: Yes, because someone who is unemployed has a hard time finding an hour to check his email.


What if you're working two part time jobs with unpredictable hours and are trying to find a better one?

jst3p: But there are TONS of programs to help them out.


Modest support programs, and they are modest, not to mention incredibly difficult to navigate even if you're educated and know what you're doing, don't make living in poverty easy.

jst3p: In some places low income families can get internet for 10 bucks a month and a $149 voucher for a computer (good enough for a chromebook, I use one and they can do quite a bit).


And internet being a virtual necessity, that's a very good thing. $149 also gets you a pretty decent used machine on e-bay.

The Missing Link: I think the key word here is convenient. We are talking about necessities vs luxuries. By saying something is a convenience you are saying it is a luxury.


You're stunningly clueless, aren't you?
 
2014-04-08 02:35:10 PM  

serial_crusher: How do we rank against other countries in that regard.  Could people in Germany come up with $1450 euros just as easily?


Don't think a study like that was done here. Anyway, I could do that without going to the bank. Always have some emergency cash hidden.

That said, it will change once my house gets finally built. Right now I am totally debt free which is nice and took a long time.

My entertainment budget for after the house is built: 25 Euro for internet and no smartphone.
 
2014-04-08 02:36:43 PM  

cptjeff: What if you're working two part time jobs with unpredictable hours and are trying to find a better one?


I worked 3 part time jobs for awhile (Babbages, Blockbuster and a sandwich shop), still would have had an hour to walk to the library and back if I had to. As it was since I had jobs I could afford AOL for internet access (it was the early 90's don't judge me!). Have you ever been in a position like that? I think you have good intentions but it doesn't seem like you are speaking from actual experience.
 
2014-04-08 02:39:33 PM  
couldpull @2,000 if I really had too. But that's out of my fund to return to car ownership and my overall net worth of $2700.
 
2014-04-08 02:41:34 PM  

Pincy: radarlove: If you live in the United States, you're almost guaranteed to have access to a library and internet.

No, you are not.


As a person who frequently relies on public libraries for his shelter, bathroom, and sleeping accommodations, I can enthusiastically assure you that you are.  You know why you find all us bearded, disgusting, piss-stinking homeless guys at the library?   It's because we all very quickly learn what a common and invaluable resource it is.

lennavan: When you do need it


That right there is the line in the sand that I have trouble psychologically discerning.  Do I really need it.  Surely there are people out there who need it more and who aren't getting it.  But I'm 35, white, male, childless...the world doesn't shiat on me the way it shiats on other groups of people.  Shouldn't those people who need it the most, those people who are subjugated by a cruel and unfair system that sticks them in the gutter because of their race or gender or age, get first crack at that assistance?  Shouldn't I sacrifice so that those less fortunate than me can endure?  And I've been told that I'm a lazy piece of shiat my whole life, so what if those voices from the past are all correct and I'm just being a lazy piece of shiat now?

You can see why it gets tough to accept something like assistance when these are the questions that run through your head.

lennavan: You're not. Whether you decide to use it or not, everyone else is going to pay in the same amount.


This is true, but the thought of having to go on still makes one feel like part of the problem.  It's not a pleasant feeling.

lennavan: The underlying cause is no doubt your current financial situation. Dude, just throw down an application. Here, that application gets you nothing except an in person meeting. So just send in the application and go to the meeting. Worry about the rest from there.


That's becoming a chicken and egg thing with me.  Are my financial problems the cause of my mental instability or is my mental instability the cause of my continuing financial problems?  I think they both feed each other, to be honest.  As for "just applying," it is a little more complicated than that, but I'm making progress.  I'm in a very isolated place both physically and mentally, but we're finding a way of working around those issues.

lennavan: Well I'll remember your post and think maybe I should toughen up and skip a few meals


Don't you dare.  I'm convinced that lack of food has probably played a bigger role in my declining health, both mental and physical, than any other one immediate factor.  Starvation gets simply maddening.  Even worse than lack of sleep.  At least with lack of sleep there's a certain euphoria that comes with it.  A drunkenness.  With hunger, there's just...pain and emptiness.

Realistically, and this is a rare moment of total rational lucidity from me so cherish it while you've got it, I sacrifice because of self-hatred.  I feel that I deserve less than anyone else.  I suppose I tried to pin this all on FARK earlier and that's terribly unfair.  It gets very easy to hate yourself when you get to this point with poverty and it's even easier still when you've had a lifetime of practice at it.  And while listening to both sides of this website objectively probably doesn't help my mental issues and the hurdle that I need to overcome to get assistance, it is certainly not the root cause.

That's all me.


/It's not therapy: It's FARK.com
 
2014-04-08 02:42:46 PM  

cptjeff: jst3p: Yes, because someone who is unemployed has a hard time finding an hour to check his email.

What if you're working two part time jobs with unpredictable hours and are trying to find a better one?

jst3p: But there are TONS of programs to help them out.

Modest support programs, and they are modest, not to mention incredibly difficult to navigate even if you're educated and know what you're doing, don't make living in poverty easy.

jst3p: In some places low income families can get internet for 10 bucks a month and a $149 voucher for a computer (good enough for a chromebook, I use one and they can do quite a bit).

And internet being a virtual necessity, that's a very good thing. $149 also gets you a pretty decent used machine on e-bay.

The Missing Link: I think the key word here is convenient. We are talking about necessities vs luxuries. By saying something is a convenience you are saying it is a luxury.

You're stunningly clueless, aren't you?


So you are saying rather than putting food on the table, someone should be paying for internet services? So rather than paying for food/shelter and walking or taking the bus to the library, they should pay for internet?
 
2014-04-08 02:43:45 PM  

Dimensio: monoski: Dimensio: Either I am relatively well-off, or I am even more successful at being a tightwad cheapskate than I had realised.

/No cable TV.
//No Netflix.

but still found $5 a month to give to Drew for his beer budget

You are mistaken: my TotalFark membership is sponsored.


Cool!
 
2014-04-08 02:52:19 PM  

jst3p: still would have had an hour to walk to the library and back if I had to. As it was since I had jobs I could afford AOL for internet access (it was the early 90's don't judge me!).


So you've never actually had to walk an hour to the library every day to log on to the internet, which is absolutely critical to trying to find most jobs these days, but you're fine saying everybody else should. Is that what I'm getting from you?

You thought Internet access was important enough in the 90s that you subscribed to AOL while just trying to scrape by. It's a thousand times more important now, but you still think internet access at home is a luxury and that people should just walk an hour to the library or pay bus fare both ways (do that every day, and it adds up to a lot more than just getting internet access at home) just so they can apply for jobs or make sure they haven't been offered one yet?
 
2014-04-08 02:52:31 PM  

Lagaidh: I feel like those who do pinch all types of pennies have spent appreciable time being poor, or are an engineer =)


Are you kidding me? That's accountant crap.

To engineers like myself, expenditures on TVs and netflix are 3 orders of magnitude less than my monthly income, which means I can safely ignore it.
 
2014-04-08 02:54:46 PM  

SpectroBoy: People somehow managed to survive through most of human history without television. Read a library book


I bet you rail against socialism too, without the slightest hint of irony.
 
2014-04-08 02:54:53 PM  
A number of people have said it already, but I'll say it again: Write down all your expenses and your income. Use a Free accounting program if you can, if that's too complicated, use a Free spreadsheet program, if that's too complicated or you don't have a computer[0], use paper and pen and a calculator.

If you write down everything you spend money on for a month or two and categorize those expenses, you can figure out what you're spending the most on and possibly identify places where you can spend less. Categorizing is essential since $20 for car insurance is great and $20 for lunch is a bit out there. "Hey, I'm spending a lot by going out to lunch all the time! I can cut back to going for lunch once a week," was the first thing I saw back in 2001. I knew getting a $7 or $8 lunch combo wasn't great, but seeing ~$900 in the "expenses - lunch" column of the GNUcash report after a year really showed just how much money I was wasting.

If my ex-GF can use a similar approach, you probably can too. It didn't prevent her from getting into credit card debt, but it showed her she was spending the equivalent of one-half new blouse per month in credit card interest, and might have helped her modify her behavior long-term. Note that YMMV, YexGFMV, and EPID.

[0] Phones are not good for entering lots of numbers and letters and manipulating them in complicated ways. Fortunately, a cheap 5-year-old real computer will have enough power to run accounting programs or simple spreadsheets.
 
2014-04-08 02:56:27 PM  

The Missing Link: or taking the bus to the library, they should pay for internet?


Let's do a quick calculation here. Taking the bus to and from the library every day, at a discounted fare of $1 each way. $60 a month. Only weekdays: $40 a month. Cable internet: $35 a month. Paying a neighbor for access to their wireless: $10 a month (or whatever).
 
2014-04-08 02:56:47 PM  
i.cdn.turner.com
 
2014-04-08 03:00:01 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: So with Microsoft abandoning support for XP, are people going to go out and buy a tablet? Are they going to go out and buy a new OS and try to install it on their old desktop? Are they going to buy an off-lease or refurb desktop with a newer OS? Are they going to buy a new desktop with a new OS then pay to upgrade 8.1?


I'd guess the majority of individuals who still run XP on their computers are probably going to stick with it. It's unfortunate, but if they haven't upgraded yet I don't think they're going to immediately, and the lack of security updates is not likely going to mean a lot.

Also, if they buy a new desktop with 8 and they want 8.1 it's a free update.
 
2014-04-08 03:00:14 PM  

cptjeff: jst3p: still would have had an hour to walk to the library and back if I had to. As it was since I had jobs I could afford AOL for internet access (it was the early 90's don't judge me!).

So you've never actually had to walk an hour to the library every day to log on to the internet, which is absolutely critical to trying to find most jobs these days, but you're fine saying everybody else should. Is that what I'm getting from you?


No, that isn't what I am saying. What I am saying is that being poor sucks six ways from Sunday but if it is what needs to be done it should get done.

You thought Internet access was important enough in the 90s that you subscribed to AOL while just trying to scrape by. It's a thousand times more important now, but you still think internet access at home is a luxury and that people should just walk an hour to the library or pay bus fare both ways (do that every day, and it adds up to a lot more than just getting internet access at home) just so they can apply for jobs or make sure they haven't been offered one yet?

If they have to.
 
2014-04-08 03:00:25 PM  

Lagaidh: Are you thinking about construction?


Know how I know you haven't worked construction in 12 years?

research.stlouisfed.org
 
2014-04-08 03:00:53 PM  
Why is no one asking who wants us to cough up two grand?

Sounds sketchy to me...
 
2014-04-08 03:05:27 PM  

cptjeff: The Missing Link: or taking the bus to the library, they should pay for internet?

Let's do a quick calculation here. Taking the bus to and from the library every day, at a discounted fare of $1 each way. $60 a month. Only weekdays: $40 a month. Cable internet: $35 a month. Paying a neighbor for access to their wireless: $10 a month (or whatever).


Or free if you are cute and don't sit in Sheldon's spot.

img2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-04-08 03:09:10 PM  

The Missing Link: So you are saying rather than putting food on the table, someone should be paying for internet services?


Internet service can be $30 a month. The time the spend going to and from the library would be better spent on the Internet finding deals at grocery stores, cheap recipes and cooking.

The Internet can pay for itself pretty easily.

This is why anyone saying to get rid of the Internet are fuking idiots.
 
2014-04-08 03:13:58 PM  

impaler: The Missing Link: So you are saying rather than putting food on the table, someone should be paying for internet services?

Internet service can be $30 a month. The time the spend going to and from the library would be better spent on the Internet finding deals at grocery stores, cheap recipes and cooking.

The Internet can pay for itself pretty easily.

This is why anyone saying to get rid of the Internet are fuking idiots.


If you qualify you can get unlimited talking, testing and 2.5GB of data:

https://lifeline.myfamilymobile.com/

That would be the smart way to go if you ask me.
 
2014-04-08 03:15:46 PM  

jst3p: impaler: The Missing Link: So you are saying rather than putting food on the table, someone should be paying for internet services?

Internet service can be $30 a month. The time the spend going to and from the library would be better spent on the Internet finding deals at grocery stores, cheap recipes and cooking.

The Internet can pay for itself pretty easily.

This is why anyone saying to get rid of the Internet are fuking idiots.

If you qualify you can get unlimited talking, testing textingand 2.5GB of data:

https://lifeline.myfamilymobile.com/

That would be the smart way to go if you ask me.

 
2014-04-08 03:16:50 PM  

radarlove: As for "just applying," it is a little more complicated than that, but I'm making progress. I'm in a very isolated place both physically and mentally, but we're finding a way of working around those issues.


I think the way forward is "fake it until you make it."  You don't have to like it, you don't have to be happy doing it, just pretend like you're happy and do things that a happier person would do.

radarlove: Do I really need it.


Yes.  It's not just me, it's pretty clear the thread consensus is yes.

radarlove: Shouldn't those people who need it the most, those people who are subjugated by a cruel and unfair system that sticks them in the gutter because of their race or gender or age, get first crack at that assistance?


This is a false dichotomy.  For some reason you're imagining if you take the help, that means someone else won't get it.  That's not true at all.  Whether you accept it or not has no bearing on whether or not someone else can get it.

radarlove: You can see why it gets tough to accept something like assistance when these are the questions that run through your head.


Right, so that gets us back to fake it until you make it.  Pretend like you're okay with it, go do it and eventually you'll get through it.  What would you tell someone if the situation were reversed?

radarlove: Don't you dare.


That's solid advice, I agree.  Now what would you do to convince someone that seems impossible to convince?
 
2014-04-08 03:22:40 PM  

que.guero: Why is no one asking who wants us to cough up two grand?

Sounds sketchy to me...


Your car breaks down? You break your leg? Your dog breaks its leg? Your dog gets cancer? Someone sues you and you need a lawyer? There's a fire at your house and you suddenly need a place to stay and to replace some things like clothes and shoes (at least till you get a check from your insurance company)?

/That house fire *was* suspicious, though.
 
2014-04-08 03:23:40 PM  

The Singing Bush: pacified: sigdiamond2000: I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.

if you have tons of different funds in your 401k, you are actually losing money to management fees.  You shouldn't have more then 2 or 3 different funds, or your gains are being eaten away.

notsureifserious.jpg

If you are serious, that's not how management fees work.  If not, well, then I'm an idiot.


If you have that many different mutual funds then you probably don't know what you're doing. Mutual funds generally exist to screw their customers; compare yours to an index fund like VTI and if you're not doing better with your fund then you should dump it.
 
2014-04-08 03:26:25 PM  

dukeblue219: TheShavingofOccam123: So with Microsoft abandoning support for XP, are people going to go out and buy a tablet? Are they going to go out and buy a new OS and try to install it on their old desktop? Are they going to buy an off-lease or refurb desktop with a newer OS? Are they going to buy a new desktop with a new OS then pay to upgrade 8.1?

I'd guess the majority of individuals who still run XP on their computers are probably going to stick with it. It's unfortunate, but if they haven't upgraded yet I don't think they're going to immediately, and the lack of security updates is not likely going to mean a lot.

Also, if they buy a new desktop with 8 and they want 8.1 it's a free update.


Thank you. I wasn't sure whether it was free for 8 or not. It's definitely something to consider.
 
2014-04-08 03:31:01 PM  
Poor people have poor ways.
 
2014-04-08 03:34:11 PM  
Always a joy to know that every poor person is one canceled cable subscription away from prosperity.
 
2014-04-08 03:39:16 PM  

dukeblue219: TheShavingofOccam123: So with Microsoft abandoning support for XP, are people going to go out and buy a tablet? Are they going to go out and buy a new OS and try to install it on their old desktop? Are they going to buy an off-lease or refurb desktop with a newer OS? Are they going to buy a new desktop with a new OS then pay to upgrade 8.1?

I'd guess the majority of individuals who still run XP on their computers are probably going to stick with it. It's unfortunate, but if they haven't upgraded yet I don't think they're going to immediately, and the lack of security updates is not likely going to mean a lot.

Also, if they buy a new desktop with 8 and they want 8.1 it's a free update.


Meh.  Just run a beaglebone.  Since we're talking budgets here.
 
2014-04-08 03:39:32 PM  

impaler: SpectroBoy: People somehow managed to survive through most of human history without television. Read a library book

I bet you rail against socialism too, without the slightest hint of irony.


I don't think I have ever used socialism in any derogatory way. If you can point to a single post I have ever made calling someone a socialist or some policy "socialism" please do so.

Even if I had, what does that have to do with libraries.

What are you on about?
 
2014-04-08 03:40:55 PM  
Part of it is the limited amount of well paying jobs.

Part of it is most people are horrible money managers.

I would venture to guess that you could take most of the people that couldn't come up with $2k today, give them a raise, and in a year would be in the same situation.  Maybe with a nicer car or bigger tv.

Who's that one kid that used to always complain about his job and everyone would spend 100's of posts trying to help and giving him advice?  Good times.
 
2014-04-08 03:41:48 PM  

The Missing Link: SpectroBoy: Wasilla Hillbilly: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

Although I don't have any of the things mentioned in your hint, I have to admit that both A and B apply to me and yes, B is the main factor in A. My only 'luxury' is my 3mb DSL connection, which I think would actually end up costing me more if I didn't have it.


I purposely didn't list an internet connection. Having internet can save people a tons of money shopping and also helps with finding a job (or doing a job). I sort of consider internet a staple at this point. It's hard to be a part of society without it.

You can use the internet for free in most  libraries


True.

I was just leaving room for people too far from a library or a job that keeps them at work during daily library hours.

Also, I honestly believe that I save enough money shopping on the internet to pay for my internet access. YMMV of course. (A little less so now that Amazon charges sales tax)
 
2014-04-08 03:43:21 PM  

Chagrin: The Singing Bush: pacified: sigdiamond2000: I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.

if you have tons of different funds in your 401k, you are actually losing money to management fees.  You shouldn't have more then 2 or 3 different funds, or your gains are being eaten away.

notsureifserious.jpg

If you are serious, that's not how management fees work.  If not, well, then I'm an idiot.

If you have that many different mutual funds then you probably don't know what you're doing. Mutual funds generally exist to screw their customers; compare yours to an index fund like VTI and if you're not doing better with your fund then you should dump it.


Yeah, that's not what the OP was saying, nor is it what I was disputing.  He claims you will pay less management fees if you have 2 or 3 funds as opposed to several funds, which is not the case.  If you have $50,000 in 2 or 3 funds that have a 0.50% management fee, or in 100 funds that have a 0.50% management fee, you're paying $250 a year.  The number of funds makes no difference.
 
2014-04-08 03:46:03 PM  

SpectroBoy: impaler: SpectroBoy: People somehow managed to survive through most of human history without television. Read a library book

I bet you rail against socialism too, without the slightest hint of irony.

I don't think I have ever used socialism in any derogatory way. If you can point to a single post I have ever made calling someone a socialist or some policy "socialism" please do so.

Even if I had, what does that have to do with libraries.

What are you on about?


Usually the type that goes on and on about how the poor should make their lives extremely inconvenient, in order to save a very small amount of money, are the type that rail against socialism.

Libraries are the state buying books, and letting people use them mostly free of charge - i.e. socialism.
 
2014-04-08 04:14:27 PM  

Litterbox: JusticeandIndependence: Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.

This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"

Yeah, fark the electric company, water company etc.  Screw the grocery store too!  I dont know about you, but $85 a week is a lot of money just to park when you may have other bills to pay.


It wasn't $85 a week.  It was $85 every other week.  So $42.50 every week.  Make it $20 and save for two years instead.  It was more of a statement about how you can save if you want to.  Just save a little bit every paycheck towards a rainy day.
 
2014-04-08 04:35:55 PM  
The Missing Link:You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

I work from noon until 2100 hours (eastern time).  The library is closed by then.  I could go in the morning before I go to work, but I also have a functional (for now, at least) automobile.

Granted, this is abstract to me--I'm making more money now than I ever have in my life--the king's ransom of $34,500 a year--at at least have the ability make my car and insurance payment every month.

That said, this thread is really hammering home the point of how horrible I am with my money, because I make that much money and still couldn't pull together $2k in an emergency without quitting my job and pulling out the 401(k).  No more excuses.
 
2014-04-08 04:36:51 PM  

fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.


He's got some bad ideas in there, like zero credit cards (leaving money on the table) and paying off all debt before saving for retirement (stupid even if you have compounding CC interest).
 
2014-04-08 04:37:16 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: It wasn't $85 a week. It was $85 every other week. So $42.50 every week. Make it $20 and save for two years instead. It was more of a statement about how you can save if you want to. Just save a little bit every paycheck towards a rainy day.


But even $42.50 a week is more than some peoples' food budgets, is more than power and water bills (sometimes put together), and is just plain not feasible for the POOR. Doesn't matter how good or bad with money you are, if there is no opportunity to make money, you do what you can, and $42.50 a week really is a stretch.
And even on a two year timescale, those rainy days are almost sure to come more frequently than the rainy day fund can handle. The math just doesn't work with the price of damn near everything what it is, and demand is already in the toilet because people can't afford to spend.
 
2014-04-08 04:40:44 PM  
Litterbox:

Im well over 40 and do not have 2K on hand.  I also do not have a couple of bikes worth that much money.  To me, thats a huge waste of cash.  Yes, Ive made some shiatty decisions and my situation is totally my fault, but I also do not make a lot vs. what I have going out.

If it's of any consolation, you've pretty much described the situation of most of the people in this country.  But the political scientists/economists of Fark seem to forget that reality, so keep on keepin' on.
 
2014-04-08 04:51:21 PM  
What it comes down to is people make choices. If after paying for your necessities (food, shelter), you choose to spend the extra money on luxuries (TV, internet), that is your choice. Just like choosing between food/shelter and the TV, that is a choice. But don't complain about not being able to come up with $2000 in an emergency, if you are choosing to spend those extra funds rather than saving them.
 
2014-04-08 04:53:51 PM  
You mean to tell me some people don't keep 5K in their checking?
 
2014-04-08 04:54:44 PM  

Serious Black: Rapmaster2000: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

I forget that old people still think a used flat screen is worth more than $200 after a few years.

I paid something like $600 for my main TV. I bought it six and a half years ago. I doubt I could get more than $100 for it on Craigslist today considering that similar new TVs today easily run under $300.


Could be worse guys... I bought my TV for $2K over 10 yrs ago. I may actually have to PAY someone to take it from me.

Sony Big Screen.. about 250 ibs
 
2014-04-08 04:55:43 PM  

IAmYourBrainOnDrugs: The Missing Link:You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

I work from noon until 2100 hours (eastern time).  The library is closed by then.  I could go in the morning before I go to work, but I also have a functional (for now, at least) automobile.

Granted, this is abstract to me--I'm making more money now than I ever have in my life--the king's ransom of $34,500 a year--at at least have the ability make my car and insurance payment every month.

That said, this thread is really hammering home the point of how horrible I am with my money, because I make that much money and still couldn't pull together $2k in an emergency without quitting my job and pulling out the 401(k).  No more excuses.


The local libraries generally don't open until noon, so you'd still be SOL.
 
2014-04-08 04:59:22 PM  

Litterbox: JusticeandIndependence: Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.

This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"

Yeah, fark the electric company, water company etc.  Screw the grocery store too!  I dont know about you, but $85 a week is a lot of money just to park when you may have other bills to pay.


You're missing the point: it's really not a lot of money. Take a hard look at where your money is going.
 
2014-04-08 05:01:15 PM  

Dimensio: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


You just need to be careful picking the right 6 in 10 Americans to rob...
 
2014-04-08 05:06:01 PM  

Jument: You're missing the point: it's really not a lot of money. Take a hard look at where your money is going.


And you're missing the point. It really IS a lot of money when you're poor.
 
2014-04-08 05:14:35 PM  

cptjeff: jst3p: still would have had an hour to walk to the library and back if I had to. As it was since I had jobs I could afford AOL for internet access (it was the early 90's don't judge me!).

So you've never actually had to walk an hour to the library every day to log on to the internet, which is absolutely critical to trying to find most jobs these days, but you're fine saying everybody else should. Is that what I'm getting from you?

You thought Internet access was important enough in the 90s that you subscribed to AOL while just trying to scrape by. It's a thousand times more important now, but you still think internet access at home is a luxury and that people should just walk an hour to the library or pay bus fare both ways (do that every day, and it adds up to a lot more than just getting internet access at home) just so they can apply for jobs or make sure they haven't been offered one yet?


The original argument was that unemployed people do not have an hour to spare to go to the library to check for email.

This poster responded that he/she had 3 part time jobs, but still had a spare hour to be able to walk to the library, if needed.

Your response is that the person never really HAS had to walk an hour to get internet.


So.. what is it?  Tough to walk a mile now.  People are that fat?

I've walked a mile to get to 7-11 before.  It depends on how much your want that pack of Big League Chew.

Then, I turned 8 and acquired a bike.   BAM, no more hour long journey.

You can get bikes on CL free, just from people cleaning up their garage and they don't want the hassle of selling something, but don't feel good about throwing perfectly good things away.
 
2014-04-08 05:16:35 PM  

The Missing Link: What it comes down to is people make choices. If after paying for your necessities (food, shelter), you choose to spend the extra money on luxuries (TV, internet), that is your choice. Just like choosing between food/shelter and the TV, that is a choice. But don't complain about not being able to come up with $2000 in an emergency, if you are choosing to spend those extra funds rather than saving them.


Let's do a little thought experiment here. Bear with me as I make a few assumptions.

You rail against the poor spending money on anything that's, in your view, unnecessary. Inluding TV, internet, and, I'd assume, electronics. So, let's go there. Let's create that world. Let's have your utopia made real.

Your profile says you live in Chicago. Perfect. We're going to go to a Chicago where there's no money being spent by the poor on entertainment. A quick search on Google tells me that around 30% of the youth between the ages of 12 and 24 in Chicago are living under the poverty line.

Now, the interesting thing about teenagers- especially teenage boys- is that they will find some sort of way to fill time. You know why Appalahia has such a high rate of teen pregnancy? It's free to f*ck. Going to the movies costs money, but you can be dead broke and still make The Beast with Two Backs.

But I digress. Anyway, now we're in a Chicago where there are a significant number of kids- predominantly black and Latino- who ain't got nothin' better to do. They're kind of pissed off, because they didn't choose to be born into a poor family. They're not really going to stay in the house, because there's nothing to do there. If they want fun, they're going to have to make their own kind of entertainment. Something that appeals to a young, poor, pissed-off male.

Let's go to a Cubs game. You're driving.
 
2014-04-08 05:18:40 PM  

DarkLancelot: IAmYourBrainOnDrugs: The Missing Link:You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

I work from noon until 2100 hours (eastern time).  The library is closed by then.  I could go in the morning before I go to work, but I also have a functional (for now, at least) automobile.

Granted, this is abstract to me--I'm making more money now than I ever have in my life--the king's ransom of $34,500 a year--at at least have the ability make my car and insurance payment every month.

That said, this thread is really hammering home the point of how horrible I am with my money, because I make that much money and still couldn't pull together $2k in an emergency without quitting my job and pulling out the 401(k).  No more excuses.

The local libraries generally don't open until noon, so you'd still be SOL.


Must be different where you are. In every suburbia I have lived in they open in the morning.

http://www.mylibrary.us/contact/library-hours-and-locations
 
2014-04-08 05:22:53 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Jument: You're missing the point: it's really not a lot of money. Take a hard look at where your money is going.

And you're missing the point. It really IS a lot of money when you're poor.


Some people have never looked at the toilet paper on hand, then the calendar, and realized that they'll run out of TP before they run out of days.

If I'm ever Emperor, everybody's going to have to live on a budget that tight for 90 days. One where absolutely every penny is accounted for, and there's no wiggle room. You'll just get zero warning before your 90 days start. Might even be over Christmas.

I think it would dramatically change the conversation we have in this country about poverty.
 
2014-04-08 05:25:55 PM  

Gonz: The Missing Link: What it comes down to is people make choices. If after paying for your necessities (food, shelter), you choose to spend the extra money on luxuries (TV, internet), that is your choice. Just like choosing between food/shelter and the TV, that is a choice. But don't complain about not being able to come up with $2000 in an emergency, if you are choosing to spend those extra funds rather than saving them.

Let's do a little thought experiment here. Bear with me as I make a few assumptions.

You rail against the poor spending money on anything that's, in your view, unnecessary. Inluding TV, internet, and, I'd assume, electronics. So, let's go there. Let's create that world. Let's have your utopia made real.

Your profile says you live in Chicago. Perfect. We're going to go to a Chicago where there's no money being spent by the poor on entertainment. A quick search on Google tells me that around 30% of the youth between the ages of 12 and 24 in Chicago are living under the poverty line.

Now, the interesting thing about teenagers- especially teenage boys- is that they will find some sort of way to fill time. You know why Appalahia has such a high rate of teen pregnancy? It's free to f*ck. Going to the movies costs money, but you can be dead broke and still make The Beast with Two Backs.

But I digress. Anyway, now we're in a Chicago where there are a significant number of kids- predominantly black and Latino- who ain't got nothin' better to do. They're kind of pissed off, because they didn't choose to be born into a poor family. They're not really going to stay in the house, because there's nothing to do there. If they want fun, they're going to have to make their own kind of entertainment. Something that appeals to a young, poor, pissed-off male.

Let's go to a Cubs game. You're driving.


Chicago has all kinds of free (subsidized) programs. There are hundreds of things inner city kids can do that the city provides. How much does it cost to go play basketball or football in the park? Heck, you can even get free condoms in most of the city high school now and days.
 
2014-04-08 05:26:43 PM  

Gonz: Some people have never looked at the toilet paper on hand, then the calendar, and realized that they'll run out of TP before they run out of days.


Nope, and then they'll tell you that you shouldn't be spending your money on luxuries like calendars or toilet paper. Notches on a stick and leaves are free, right?
 
2014-04-08 05:27:11 PM  

Gonz: It's free to f*ck. Going to the movies costs money

 
2014-04-08 05:27:40 PM  

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.



I agree with you that retards will take the 12.5% and spend it.   It can not be stopped.  That is what retards do.

I would be 100% ok with mandating 10%  (or 12.5%) into a retirement plan.
It is for the good of everyone that people prepare for retirement.    Sort of like the excuses for Obamacare.

Call it the Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act.

Just make them save it.    I would also be ok with limiting investment choices.    I don't need people crying they put it all in WorldCom or Enron.  They can invest in the S&P, or T-bills if they are afraid.

But the money is there, in a REAL retirement account.


I'm sure that insurance companies will be standing in line to offer disability insurance and life insurance to 200 million clients.   I'm sure it could be offered a nice rate for a small percentage of your contribution.  Group term at its finest.
 
2014-04-08 05:33:41 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: I would be 100% ok with mandating 10% (or 12.5%) into a retirement plan.
It is for the good of everyone that people prepare for retirement. Sort of like the excuses for Obamacare.

Call it the Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act.


Pretty sure you just described Social Security.
 
2014-04-08 05:44:21 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Nutsac_Jim: I would be 100% ok with mandating 10% (or 12.5%) into a retirement plan.
It is for the good of everyone that people prepare for retirement. Sort of like the excuses for Obamacare.

Call it the Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act.

Pretty sure you just described Social Security.


Except for nobody taking 2/3 of your money, nobody taking 100% of it if you die at or before 61, and your kids get nothing  unless they are "lucky enough" that you die when they are 5 or so.

Other than that, sure,.. its *just* like social security.
 
2014-04-08 05:48:36 PM  
4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000

This has always been the case in America. Most people don't save their money.
 
2014-04-08 05:51:27 PM  
Kudos to the 1 in 10 people who are both Liberal and capable of scrounging up $2000.
 
2014-04-08 05:56:16 PM  

The Missing Link: Chicago has all kinds of free (subsidized) programs.


I like how you call it "free (subsidized)". Poor people pay taxes- sales tax, gas tax, usually some degree of income tax, etc.

It's not subsidized, they're paying for it.
 
2014-04-08 06:03:35 PM  

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Kudos to the 1 in 10 people who are both Liberal and capable of scrounging up $2000.


6 out of 10 can scrounge up $2000.

Democrats outnumber Republicans:

www.people-press.org

Is your post dumbass math you do to make yourself feel better?
 
2014-04-08 06:04:07 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


This article is about the 40 percent of people that don't have savings. We could be looking at 40 percent of grandmas walking around homeless. How would the economy be affected there were a bunch of homeless grandmas? Your social security is a no homeless grandma tax. I prefer it to the bomb other countries tax.
 
2014-04-08 06:13:31 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Except for nobody taking 2/3 of your money, nobody taking 100% of it if you die at or before 61, and your kids get nothing unless they are "lucky enough" that you die when they are 5 or so.

Other than that, sure,.. its *just* like social security.


Hey, you want to discuss turning Social Security into some kind of national pension/401K, I'm all ears, but don't pretend that your Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act doesn't address many of the very same problems Social Security was created to combat.
 
2014-04-08 06:13:55 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Sergeant Grumbles: Nutsac_Jim: I would be 100% ok with mandating 10% (or 12.5%) into a retirement plan.
It is for the good of everyone that people prepare for retirement. Sort of like the excuses for Obamacare.

Call it the Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act.

Pretty sure you just described Social Security.

Except for nobody taking 2/3 of your money, nobody taking 100% of it if you die at or before 61, and your kids get nothing  unless they are "lucky enough" that you die when they are 5 or so.

Other than that, sure,.. its *just* like social security.


And nobody keeps paying you after your retirement ran out because you fuked up and lived too long.

It's retirement insurance, not retirement savings.
 
2014-04-08 06:22:06 PM  
the same proportion are creationists

/don't know where I'm going with this
 
2014-04-08 06:29:56 PM  

Cold_Sassy: ZAZ: Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.

Thank god ABC took a two year old story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.

Just curious, how much has your salary increased in the past two years?  Things keep getting more and more expensive, yet employers don't want to seem to shell out any raise money.  It's not just me, it's the entire staff at the company for whom I work.


Speak for yourself! I got a $0.30 raise.
 
2014-04-08 06:46:20 PM  

Majick Thise: I have been like this for all the thirty years of my adult life... until this year. Now I have no debt other than a mortgage and that should be gone this year as well and I should have about a years pay left over

yay me


Dave Ramsey would be proud.  But seriously, good for you.  Am doing the same thing.  Found a really good budgeting software on a Steam sale (thats right!), called You Need A Budget (YNAB).  Great stuff.  Actually makes sense and is pretty easy to stick withl.  By the middle of this year, I should be pretty much in the same place, with only my car and home loan left.

I think Dave Ramsey's priorities are out of whack, but the kernel idea of getting out of revolving debt is good.  Where he messes up, IMHO, is on the 401k front. He says not to contribute anything until you are out of debt.  It think that is silly if you have company match; don't leave that moneys setting on the table.  He also wants 3-6 months of emergency fund.  3 is fine, but 6 is probably overkill, especially once you are out of debt, though YMMV.

All in all, it is a good thing to think about.  Revolving debt is a killer. Car payments, provided you are employed and aren't exorbitant, are a reasonable expense.  Same with a house payment.
 
2014-04-08 07:14:44 PM  
If I had it all to do over again, I would have married well at 20. Or, I would have stripped through college, avoiding student loans. I have absolutely no moral problem dancing naked for money. WHY DID I NOT DO THAT

/yes, I'm totally serious
 
2014-04-08 07:34:54 PM  

RyansPrivates: I think Dave Ramsey's priorities are out of whack, but the kernel idea of getting out of revolving debt is good.  Where he messes up, IMHO, is on the 401k front.


There and the whole "pay off the smallest debt first" thing. I have 2 student loans. One is at a very low rate and currently not even accruing interest at all. Another larger one at 6.8% and accruing interest every day. Dave Ramsey's logic would have me pay off the smaller, cheaper one first. That would cost me real money.

I know he's going for a psychological thing, but it's pretty simple to understand that paying off high interest debt is cheaper long term. I'd rather watch my total debt go down than the number of debts.
 
2014-04-08 07:46:31 PM  
A couple months ago, I could've scrounged up a couple grand.

Oh, yeah, that's right, I did.

Stage 3 cancer took care of that in the first day of hospitalization, even with the best insurance my employer offers.

Now, a couple grand poorer, and much deeper in debt.
 
2014-04-08 08:01:54 PM  

fireclown: grimlock1972: fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.

your baby step is probably too big for many right now as $1,500 all at once is a big hit to alot of people, i for example would have to split it over 3 months.

Then take three months.  Heck, take 4.  Then take the money that you were putting to the emergency fund, cut WAY the hell back on your WRITTEN budget and start digging into the rest of the debt.    When I finally decided to get my financial shiat in order (and it was a basket case), it took me a little over two years to clear out credit card debt, car loan, and some misc debt.  I didn't get into that hole overnight, and I didn't get OUT overnight.


I am currently debt free other than my mortgage and i pay that on time,n= My bidget is damned tight and there is very little i could cut with out eating your average college kid's diet.
 
2014-04-08 08:36:34 PM  

Devo: Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

 
This article is about the 40 percent of people that don't have savings. We could be looking at 40 percent of grandmas walking around homeless. How would the economy be affected there were a bunch of homeless grandmas? Your social security is a no homeless grandma tax. I prefer it to t ...


Tough time reading?

I already went over that grandma has less money because of social security.

Why do you hate grandmas and want them to be homeless?
 
2014-04-08 08:38:50 PM  

impaler: And nobody keeps paying you after your retirement ran out because you fuked up and lived too long.

It's retirement insurance, not retirement savings.


Tough time reading?

The income I referred to will NEVER end.


Keep on mindlessly tooting the horn though.  Don't let numbers confuse you.

Toot Toot!
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-08 08:55:06 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: The income I referred to will NEVER end.


Holy shiat. 2008 was 6 years ago. The stock market hit bottom only just slightly more than 5 years ago. How the fark did you forget it?

If you're living off of your investments, you're assuming 8% yearly growth, and 2008 happens, you're SOL. The bills still have to be paid, so you're drawing down your account during the crash. What's that gonna do for you? How's the eventual recovery gonna work out when you had to draw down your capital to keep the heat on and you have no other source of income?

Oh, well, take less risky investments then, right? Good luck getting 8% on a conservative investment strategy. You don't get to assume 8% growth on average without assuming eating a shiat sandwich every now and then.
 
2014-04-08 09:00:06 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Nutsac_Jim: Except for nobody taking 2/3 of your money, nobody taking 100% of it if you die at or before 61, and your kids get nothing unless they are "lucky enough" that you die when they are 5 or so.

Other than that, sure,.. its *just* like social security.

Hey, you want to discuss turning Social Security into some kind of national pension/401K, I'm all ears, but don't pretend that your Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act doesn't address many of the very same problems Social Security was created to combat.


I never said it didn't address them.
It addresses them much the same as using a bucket fixes the leak in your boat.
Because it tries to address it, does not make it a good plan.

Yes, it gives you back some money.  1/3 of your own damn money.
Social security does pay about 62,000 people a fat assed salary though.  Who shiats on 100k a year?

Who pays for that?  Grandma.
She just doesn't know it.

Name one thing in Soc Sec that isn't already done better by yourself.

You can already put money in an IRA.
Free.

Fidelity will already print up disbursement checks for you.
Free.

Fidelity will tell you how much you have every month.
Free.

All you need to do is
-Make deposits mandatory.  Your payroll can automatically make the deposit for you, or have the IRS do it for you.

It would be difficult to replace though.  Ponzi schemes(or the more popular term, 'pay as you go' plans) fall apart when you cut down on the new joiners.

You will note that the  Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act does not fall apart if enrollment drops.
Nobody will ever say 'We have to 'fine tune it' now, before it is too late!"
 
2014-04-08 09:13:58 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Strange, Republicans and Libertarians keep saying that individuals should have total control of their money, because they know better how to handle it than the government. And yet it appears that if we did dump SS/Medicare/etc there would be millions that would have to work until they died just to make ends meet, or end up starving on the street.


Republicans say one thing but are every bit as big as welfare statists as the democrats.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/04/laurence-m-vance/republicans-love -w elfare/

Libertarians are against the use of force. This is the source of objection to forced charity through the tax code. If the government wants to offer voluntary programs (actually voluntary, not like income tax is voluntary) then the primary libertarian objection falls away.

Those folks who think they can use the government to save people from themselves accomplish two things. 1) They enrich politicians and their friends. 2) They build better irresponsible idiots.

I would rather have the 12% of my earnings that has been taken from me for SS. Yes, the "employer half" is my earnings too. If I returned every penny my employer paid to keep me there except that 6% I'd get fired and they would find someone else. See if I had that money, then I wouldn't have to keep a separate reserve fund. I can't count on ever getting a dime of that money back from the fedgov, so I have to keep separate savings for job loss/retirement/etc.

Also the federal reserve for the federal government's benefit is keeping interest rates at essentially zero which means savers don't earn anything unless they enter the wall street casino, the commodities market, or other various risky gambles with their savings.

Meanwhile the irresponsible people this is supposed to help still end up destitute and so forth. That is of course those we are told it is supposed to help. It's helping the irresponsible folks on Wall Street and at the big banks quite well, which is probably the intent.

So exactly why is it worth punishing the prudent of this society because some people can't be bothered to be responsible for themselves?
 
2014-04-08 09:14:27 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Nutsac_Jim: The income I referred to will NEVER end.

Holy shiat. 2008 was 6 years ago. The stock market hit bottom only just slightly more than 5 years ago. How the fark did you forget it?

If you're living off of your investments, you're assuming 8% yearly growth, and 2008 happens, you're SOL. The bills still have to be paid, so you're drawing down your account during the crash. What's that gonna do for you? How's the eventual recovery gonna work out when you had to draw down your capital to keep the heat on and you have no other source of income?

Oh, well, take less risky investments then, right? Good luck getting 8% on a conservative investment strategy. You don't get to assume 8% growth on average without assuming eating a shiat sandwich every now and then.



HOLY shiat !
Really?

So.. you have 3x as much money, and you are going to be worried that you took a 40% dump, and that 4 years later, it was back 100%?

I am going to go on the assumption that arent going to have $24,000 monthly heating bills.  I'm sure you will be fine.

Besides, if you are retired.. and you are taking disbursements, you can walk it in with tbills and bonds for retirement.  So 2008 never happens for a second reason.
 
2014-04-08 09:18:17 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: You will note that the  Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act does not fall apart if enrollment drops.
Nobody will ever say 'We have to 'fine tune it' now, before it is too late!"


Yeah, it only falls apart if people start getting sub-8% returns. That's only happened for, like, half the years since 2000, so it'll totes be fine.
 
2014-04-08 09:25:37 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: So.. you have 3x as much money, and you are going to be worried that you took a 40% dump, and that 4 years later, it was back 100%?


It's not back 100% if I've been drawing it down.

Nutsac_Jim: Besides, if you are retired.. and you are taking disbursements, you can walk it in with tbills and bonds for retirement.


I thought I was living off of the interest. It will "NEVER" end. Obnoxious caps lock and everything. That's certainly what you keep saying. You're not getting 8% on "tbills and bonds", so say goodbye to that assumption. You're draining the account. If the stocks go negative, the account is draining itself without your help.
 
2014-04-08 09:29:55 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Nutsac_Jim: The income I referred to will NEVER end.


Holy shiat. 2008 was 6 years ago. The stock market hit bottom only just slightly more than 5 years ago. How the fark did you forget it?

If you're living off of your investments, you're assuming 8% yearly growth, and 2008 happens, you're SOL. The bills still have to be paid, so you're drawing down your account during the crash. What's that gonna do for you? How's the eventual recovery gonna work out when you had to draw down your capital to keep the heat on and you have no other source of income?


ok,.
So you are all on average and have 1,500,000 right up to 2008.  Worst possible scenario evar...
You lose 40% in a day !  ouch, your anus hurts.
You now have 900000.
The market is paying you D.I.K.   you get ZERO percent.
You have to liquidate to get your disbursement.
Do you get your shiat 1700$  Eff it.  you need the 5000 you expected without Social Security!
12x5000 is 60000.
year one  900,000 - 60,000 is 840,000
year two  840,000 - 60,000 is 780,000
year three 780,000 - 60,000 is 720,000
year four  720,000 - 60,000 is 660,000

OUCH   what an ass raping.   only 660k left.  What a fool, you spent 5000 a month, even though you should have planned for social securities 1700.
Oh well.. live and learn.  Next time.. no big screen TVs !

Now thats the worst case scenario.  Take money out at the worst possible time.
OK.  Now your money doubled because the market came back fully in 2012.   But Eff it.  No run up for you. compounding and shiat.. nope.
Just double it now.  1,320,000.

fark it.  Who can live off 1.3 million.   Not grandma!

Now, at 4%.  you are only making $4,333 instead of social securities $1700.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?>?>??!?!??!!?!!  O NOOOOES
 
2014-04-08 09:31:50 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Nutsac_Jim: You will note that the  Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act does not fall apart if enrollment drops.
Nobody will ever say 'We have to 'fine tune it' now, before it is too late!"

Yeah, it only falls apart if people start getting sub-8% returns. That's only happened for, like, half the years since 2000, so it'll totes be fine.


And the other half of the years since 2000?
 
2014-04-08 09:35:22 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Nutsac_Jim: So.. you have 3x as much money, and you are going to be worried that you took a 40% dump, and that 4 years later, it was back 100%?

It's not back 100% if I've been drawing it down.

Nutsac_Jim: Besides, if you are retired.. and you are taking disbursements, you can walk it in with tbills and bonds for retirement.

I thought I was living off of the interest. It will "NEVER" end. Obnoxious caps lock and everything. That's certainly what you keep saying. You're not getting 8% on "tbills and bonds", so say goodbye to that assumption. You're draining the account. If the stocks go negative, the account is draining itself without your help.


"It's not back 100% if I've been drawing it down. "
Insignifigant when looking at the big picture.  You still make 4333 instead of 1700.   You don't make $4950.   Boo hoo.

"You're not getting 8% on "tbills and bonds",
That is why the calculation was based on 4%.
 
2014-04-08 09:37:16 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Yeah, it only falls apart if people start getting sub-8% returns. That's only happened for, like, half the years since 2000, so it'll totes be fine.


And that's only if Wall Street doesn't specifically try and screw with the SS money. They've been trying to get their hands on that money for ten years or more, and you can be sure it's not so anyone but themselves can have a nicer retirement.
 
2014-04-08 09:38:52 PM  
THIS IS OBNOXIOUS CAPS LOCK.

THIS is emphasis.


I guess if you can't do math, be a grammar Nazi.
 
2014-04-08 09:39:11 PM  
Well sure if you exclude blue collar crime as a means.
 
2014-04-08 09:44:14 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: thurstonxhowell: Yeah, it only falls apart if people start getting sub-8% returns. That's only happened for, like, half the years since 2000, so it'll totes be fine.


And that's only if Wall Street doesn't specifically try and screw with the SS money. They've been trying to get their hands on that money for ten years or more, and you can be sure it's not so anyone but themselves can have a nicer retirement.



Yes, that is what it is.  It isn't about not screwing grandma some more.   It's about  imagining Wall Street 1%ers are all saying "We almost have it.  Muahahahaha! Wait until they put it in private accounts!  Then its OURS"

//With all caps goodness
 
2014-04-08 09:47:47 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: It's about imagining Wall Street 1%ers are all saying "We almost have it. Muahahahaha! Wait until they put it in private accounts! Then its OURS"


And you're under the assumption that this isn't occuring? Why would they want to gamble with their own money when they can gamble with grandma's?
 
2014-04-08 10:00:24 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: THIS IS OBNOXIOUS CAPS LOCK.

THIS is emphasis.


Nutsac_Jim: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?>?>??!?!??!!?!!  O NOOOOES


Nutsac_Jim: I guess if you can't do math, be a grammar Nazi.


I guess if you're a dickhead, be a dickhead.
 
2014-04-08 10:04:02 PM  

thurstonxhowell: I guess if you're a dickhead, be a dickhead.


He had to earn a nickname like Nutsac somehow.
 
2014-04-08 10:31:51 PM  

radarlove: lennavan: Especially when you're highly motivated to sell now rather than hold out for a better price.

Bingo.  Can't tell you how often we wished we'd just had more time to sell that stuff.  But landlords hold little respect for the nuances of successful negotiation.

lennavan: Did you consider food stamps/unemployment/welfare/etc? I know it's a giant blow to the ego but that really helps weather the emergency hump.

I've held off on doing that at great expense to my health.  I'm at the point now where I only eat once every two or three days and sometimes sleep even less.  I could describe a litany of symptoms that would rid the thread of the squeamish.

So why hold off?  Why not get on government assistance?

FARK-dot-motherfarking-com

I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register.  Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.  And that isn't something I ever want to be.  I loathe inflicting hardship or even mere inconvenience upon people.  That's just who I am.  I also have particularly low self-worth at this point, so statements that the poor are poor because of what shiatty failures of people they are resonate particularly strongly with me.

I'm trying to look past those voices lately.  I'm not in a location where there are people to assist me with any kind of governmental assistance but my primary focus right now needs to be mental healthcare.  As I'm sure you can infer at this point, a rough spell has taken its toll on an already unstable psychology, so progress on that needs to be made before any more can.  There's a center a couple of hours away that I've heard might offer indigent care, so I'm going to try to find a way to check them out to see if they can get me some help.

To the Farkers on the right-hand side of this thread, I am really, truly, genuinely sorry that I am going to have to do that.  It absolutely rends my heart to take from those who have not offered to give.  But I fear that the harm I may cause some of you by not going on some form of government assistance may be far greater than the harm I will surely inflict upon all of you if I do.

lennavan: Money is supposedly the #1 reason people fight and divorce. If you guys made it through that, you should be set.

I'm afraid this looks to be far from over.  The strain on the marriage is incredible.  Several times I've told myself and her that I'd leave her just to save her from the inevitable implosion, but she insists on staying.  Now I'm in freefall and she's still holding this whole thing together.  She's got to work just to keep us alive AND take care of this psychotic mess when she gets home.  And she's still around.  Says she ain't going nowhere and neither am I (though I don't know where the hell I'd go if we ever did split up).  She's an amazing woman and I'm acutely aware of how lucky I am.  =)


Hey. If you are still around, drop me a line. B­engale­y*s­um­mer­ca­t[nospam-﹫-backwards]l­i­am­g*co­m

You might be asleep; goodness knows i might be in two hours. Worst case i respond in the morning :)
 
2014-04-08 10:38:58 PM  
As for the question...

I could, maybe. If it was omfg important. Got about 1.5k liquid in checking and savings... But in terms of assets i dont have much in the way of salable items. Most of my valuables are only so to a tiny market (furry fandom) and only to a small minority of em (pre2000 items, obscure comics, etc) that i got cheap because almost nobody else want em.

And im the richest member of my family, and throuhly depressed that my best hourly rate ever is less than Australian minimum wage.

/friend dragged me over there for two weeks
//goddamn it was awesome.
 
2014-04-08 10:48:06 PM  

thurstonxhowell: I guess if you're a dickhead, be a dickhead.


I am sorry that math is hard for you Thurston.
 
2014-04-08 10:51:35 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Jument: You're missing the point: it's really not a lot of money. Take a hard look at where your money is going.

And you're missing the point. It really IS a lot of money when you're poor.


It is a shiatload of money if you're really poor. An extra $100 a week would kick me up from not even surviving right now to just barely making it (at least, I could pay the bills I've been ignoring for two months). I got behind on my bare edge of survival when I took the bar exam and had to skip a week of work, plus spend half an extra week's pay on food and travel expenses--that was all it took. Now lucky for me, I have a home to stay in; but if I didn't, I'd be in a world of hurt. It's taken me two months to dig myself back out of a very small hole.

This business of "looking at where your money is going" is b/s. I know where my money is going: out of a take-home monthly pay of $800/month, $200 goes to Aunt Sallie Mae, $100 goes to dental insurance, $50 to my sole credit card, $80 for gas, $25 for Internet access and email, $150 for token rent and utilities to my mom, $30 for my meds, and the rest to keep my bank account from having overdraft fees. If I'm not mistaken, that equals just under $800. Where shall I start cutting? It is true, I could be working more than I do, although it's difficult to quit a good part-time job to wait for a better full-time job; still, I do what I can. However, the idea that even impoverished people are somehow wasting money on unneeded frivolities and just need to "cut back" is ludicrous. If I'm spending $800/mo on barest necessities, what's happening to people with, you know, families and actual rent and things?
 
2014-04-08 10:54:29 PM  
 

thurstonxhowell: Nutsac_Jim: THIS IS OBNOXIOUS CAPS LOCK.

THIS is emphasis.

Nutsac_Jim: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?>?>??!?!??!!?!!  O NOOOOES

Nutsac_Jim: I guess if you can't do math, be a grammar Nazi.

I guess if you're a dickhead, be a dickhead.


Being a dickhead.   You mean like switching around the order of my quotes so they appear to prove your point?

That kind of dickhead?
 
2014-04-08 11:00:58 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: thurstonxhowell: I guess if you're a dickhead, be a dickhead.

I am sorry that math is hard for you Thurston.


Wow, you're really rocking this "defending your point and not just being a dickhead for no reason" thing, huh?
 
2014-04-08 11:03:21 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Being a dickhead.   You mean like switching around the order of my quotes so they appear to prove your point?


So that was a totally non-obnoxious and not at all dickheadish use of CAPS lock, then?
 
2014-04-08 11:11:56 PM  

Gyrfalcon: This business of "looking at where your money is going" is b/s. I know where my money is going: out of a take-home monthly pay of $800/month, $200 goes to Aunt Sallie Mae, $100 goes to dental insurance, $50 to my sole credit card, $80 for gas, $25 for Internet access and email, $150 for token rent and utilities to my mom, $30 for my meds, and the rest to keep my bank account from having overdraft fees. If I'm not mistaken, that equals just under $800. Where shall I start cutting? It is true, I could be working more than I do, although it's difficult to quit a good part-time job to wait for a better full-time job; still, I do what I can. However, the idea that even impoverished people are somehow wasting money on unneeded frivolities and just need to "cut back" is ludicrous. If I'm spending $800/mo on barest necessities, what's happening to people with, you know, families and actual rent and things?


Get off you ass and work.

"It is true, I could be working more than I do, "  --You think?

"it's difficult to quit a good part-time job to wait for a better full-time job "  --How about this?  Go get another part time job and pretend you have a full time job, until the full time job shows up in your lap.

take-home monthly pay of $800/month
WTF.  I made that working part time FedEx until midnight, after my 8-6 job, because I had a kid and needed the money more than I needed to sit on my ass.
What are you doing with yourself the rest of the day?  Doesn't it bother you that your mother is disappointed in you?  That should be enough of an incentive for you.

Where shall I start cutting?
Start off with cutting $100 mo for dental and brush your teeth more often.  Buy a bottle of Listerine once a month.  It's $5.83

Sallie Mae.   What for.  I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs.  What they do is pay for school.  I didn't have a loan.  Didn't want one.   Now you have a loan, and no job.  Nice.

Most chumps defer their student loans until after school.  You chose otherwise and work part time for internet and smokes.  Explain.
 
2014-04-08 11:12:48 PM  

Gyrfalcon: This business of "looking at where your money is going" is b/s.


There needs to be a distinction made. There are people who are bad with money, and "look where your money is going" is helpful to them to live more securely and comfortably, but these people are, by and large, not poor. They have money coming in, but aren't utilizing it properly or efficiently. They can see significant savings by cutting out the Starbucks, cutting their $200 cable package, or not springing for a new phone every year. They can and will be hit hard by emergencies because they keep nothing in reserve, but they still have the capability to create a reserve.
They're the kind of people that Dave Ramsey and the like's plan can help, but I must reiterate that these people are not poor and such plans will not work for the poor.

Then, there are the actual poor. They can't cut because there's nothing to cut. Telling them to sell their car or cut the $35/month internet bill will significantly degrade their flexibility, impede networking and job search potential, (is also some of the cheapest entertainment you can find), and more importantly, will do nothing to actually lift them out of poverty. It will literally do more harm than good.
Asking them to save up money they don't have is a non-starter, because even if they did squirrel away $20 every month, the emergencies can and do come much faster than anything that paltry amount of savings is likely to handle.

And add to any of that student loans, and you definitely won't be finding anything to cut. Sallie Mae demands blood, and being a stone is no excuse.
 
2014-04-08 11:15:03 PM  
Every day on my way home, I drive past Waste Management, inc.

They have a sign up.  Now Hiring Full time.

It has been up for at least two years.

If you want, I can get the number for you.
 
2014-04-08 11:15:25 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs. What they do is pay for school.


Know how i know you haven't been to college in the last 10 years?
 
2014-04-08 11:19:22 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Nutsac_Jim: I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs. What they do is pay for school.

Know how i know you haven't been to college in the last 10 years?


You pulled it out of your ass?


Because I am not talking about delivering the morning paper on my bike.
 
2014-04-08 11:19:45 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Every day on my way home, I drive past Waste Management, inc.

They have a sign up.  Now Hiring Full time.

It has been up for at least two years.

If you want, I can get the number for you.


Ah, wonderful.

We're finally down to "If you'd just look, you'd find a great job."
 
2014-04-08 11:29:08 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Because I am not talking about delivering the morning paper on my bike.


Even so, the cost of tuition coupled with the cost of living expenses far outpaces what you can make working even multiple jobs in the minimum wage vein.
The cost of a public institution for the 2013-2014 year cost an average $22,826 dollars. Working enough to put a dent in that as well still affording food and shelter, and you might actually have time to go to class if you give up bullshiat like sleeping.
 
2014-04-08 11:36:32 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Working enough to put a dent in that as well still affording food and shelter,


Before I get dinged on that, the $22,826 was including room and board.
 
2014-04-08 11:39:29 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Sergeant Grumbles: Nutsac_Jim: I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs. What they do is pay for school.

Know how i know you haven't been to college in the last 10 years?

You pulled it out of your ass?


Because I am not talking about delivering the morning paper on my bike.


Well, since you delivered the morning paper on your bike, that must be a thing that happened in the last 10 years. That was a totally valid response and not at all a non sequitur.
 
2014-04-09 12:43:21 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: Sallie Mae.   What for.  I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs.  What they do is pay for school.  I didn't have a loan.  Didn't want one.


Someone went to college in the 90s or earlier.
 
2014-04-09 12:46:23 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Well, since you delivered the morning paper on your bike,


Ha ha!

Delivering a PAPER newspaper.

Not showing his age at all.

What an idiot. I'm 38 BTW, so the moron is describing an economic reality that was valid when I was a kid.
 
2014-04-09 12:56:17 AM  

impaler: Nutsac_Jim: Sallie Mae.   What for.  I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs.  What they do is pay for school.  I didn't have a loan.  Didn't want one.

Someone went to college in the 90s or earlier.


I have Nutsac_Jim tagged as "favors flat tax $11000 each individual annually" from some long forgotten economic thread.

So, Nutsac_Jim, let's hear how that person that struggles to save $40 a week, is going to come up with the weekly $211 "Nutsack_Jim" income tax.

God help them if they have a child or two. $844 a week for a family of four, for their flat tax contribution to the greatness of America?
 
2014-04-09 12:56:58 AM  
All of these poors just need to work more.

I was telling my nanny this just the other day.
 
2014-04-09 01:02:11 AM  
affordableluxuryblog.com

My JOOS Orange Solar battery and USB charger hooked up to my laptop with entire offline Wikipedia (via Kiwix) laughs at your monetarily dependent lifestyle.
 
2014-04-09 01:20:05 AM  

impaler: Nutsac_Jim: Sallie Mae.   What for.  I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs.  What they do is pay for school.  I didn't have a loan.  Didn't want one.

Someone went to college in the 90s or earlier.


Hell, he paid for school on just the tip money!
 
2014-04-09 01:33:00 AM  
I might be able to get $500-$1000 for my junk car. Getting more than that though, not seeing it happen. I have $0.06 in the bank.
 
2014-04-09 01:33:57 AM  
28-odd years ago, I started putting a whopping $13 per week into my 401K, and even that was painful given my student loans.  Despite my best efforts to screw it up, it's now above half a million.  The truly amazing thing is that it isn't amazing in any way: I've seen it grow by little bitty amounts every month for all these years, except for the white-knuckle times when it took all I could muster to NOT transfer things this way and that.

Time can be your enemy, or time can be your friend.  Make friends with time.
 
2014-04-09 02:21:06 AM  

mofa: 28-odd years ago, I started putting a whopping $13 per week into my 401K, and even that was painful given my student loans.  Despite my best efforts to screw it up, it's now above half a million.  The truly amazing thing is that it isn't amazing in any way: I've seen it grow by little bitty amounts every month for all these years, except for the white-knuckle times when it took all I could muster to NOT transfer things this way and that.

Time can be your enemy, or time can be your friend.  Make friends with time.


But did you have a decent job? It offered a 401K, so it must not have been that bad. Did you have a company match? Have you remained gainfully employed for the majority?
The thing with the poor is that they don't have access to a lot of that stuff, and time is more their enemy because of all the little costs that life throws at them. That $13 a week could be the difference between eating and not eating.
I don't put shiat into my 401K because there's no company match where I work, and the entire idea is a moot point if my student loans aren't paid off.
 
2014-04-09 02:49:14 AM  
Yes; good job, opportunities, meritocracy, Reagan's bloated defense budgets.  I've recently been helping a cousin of mine 20 years younger than me go through a messy divorce and losing custody of her kids, and she'd kill for $10/hour and 20 hours per week.  I was on welfare and food stamps as a kid, so I am constitutionally unable to leave a stable job with benefits.

It's not anyone's imagination: everything is shiat these days.  Please kill the older boomers first; they're assholes.  I am, too, most likely.
 
2014-04-09 03:00:58 AM  

Delawheredad: Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!


It gets better.  I was sleeping in my car three months after my divorce, while working a full time job.  She was going to Vegas on the child support.
 
2014-04-09 04:23:46 AM  

mofa: Please kill the older boomers first; they're assholes. I am, too, most likely.


But we like you.

Can't we just threaten you a little? Sic the dogs on you, but they're toy poodles kind of thing.
 
2014-04-09 04:40:58 AM  

Sergeant Grumbles: And add to any of that student loans, and you definitely won't be finding anything to cut. Sallie Mae demands blood, and being a stone is no excuse.


Nice. I may steal that.

And not that I owe a certain troll any "explanation," but to round off this asinine discussion, here is how people get into the student loan mess. I hadn't planned to take more than the minimal amount of loans, and to work part-time in law school; however, due to health reasons, I found this wasn't going to work. Thanks to my mental illness and inability to obtain health insurance (because preexisting conditions allowed them to deny me without even opening the envelope), I'm unable to do more than one high-stress thing at a time. I can either work full-time or go to school; I cannot do both. So it was take out more loans than I wanted so as to finish law school, or....well, that was it, really. Or not go to law school at all.

And since then, I've been caught in the ugly catch-22 that awaits many law school grads: You can't get a job till you pass the bar--and if you're waiting for your bar results, nobody will hire you for any non-attorney job because a) you'll pass and then you'll quit to become an attorney; or b) you won't pass and then you'll quit to go back to studying for the bar again. Seriously, I have been flat-out told this by HR personnel ("We'd love to hire you, but you're waiting for the bar, right?") And then there's the fact that studying for the bar takes 2 months out of your life; and actually TAKING the damn thing requires an entire week. Hard to find anyone to hire you when you say "Well, I need a week off in February/July to take the bar." (And then you're going to quit, right?)

This happens to a lot of students who went for advanced degrees and for some reason didn't pass the bar or the boards right away; and suddenly had huge loans due, but no doctorate or bar card to get hired on; and the ugly option of deferring their loans and taking expensive test after test ($750 per test for the bar, a couple thousand I think for medial boards, for instance), or giving up and abandoning the idea of being a lawyer or doctor or whatever (and I have some friends who did just that). And it's the same only less costly for lower-income people who believed those ads that ITT Tech would get them hired after only 18 months of training and now they have a worthless AA degree and $40K in loans and nobody's hiring them either.

People who think it's just a question of "cut back and get another (or a better) job" are just stupid, there's no two ways about it.
 
2014-04-09 08:15:10 AM  

sigdiamond2000: Poor people shouldn't be allowed to own "flat screen" TVs. They should be forced to buy those tube televisions they don't even sell anymore.


Poor people don't own flat screens, the rent them from Aaron's for $50/week for 10 years.
 
2014-04-09 09:04:22 AM  

StopLurkListen: impaler: Nutsac_Jim: Sallie Mae.   What for.  I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs.  What they do is pay for school.  I didn't have a loan.  Didn't want one.

Someone went to college in the 90s or earlier.

I have Nutsac_Jim tagged as "favors flat tax $11000 each individual annually" from some long forgotten economic thread.

So, Nutsac_Jim, let's hear how that person that struggles to save $40 a week, is going to come up with the weekly $211 "Nutsack_Jim" income tax.

God help them if they have a child or two. $844 a week for a family of four, for their flat tax contribution to the greatness of America?


Probably a better one would be 'Favors flat tax with 20k deduction'.    I'm not sure how 11,000 of flat tax would help out someone making 15k.    For someone making $22k at wal-mart, $20 of tax a month is probably not a bad tax.

for your $844 guy that is  $2,627 on income of 44,0000
That is a 6% tax rate.

Bear in mind this is not counting any tax credits for his two kids. 44000-20000-6000=18000*.11 = $1980tax
or 4.5%

So tell me.. what does someone making $44k pay today?  14%
 
2014-04-09 09:11:05 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: So tell me.. what does someone making $44k pay today?  14%

9.2%, assuming no student loan debt, mortgage interest, kids, wife, or 401K contribution.
 
2014-04-09 09:22:21 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: impaler: Nutsac_Jim: Sallie Mae.   What for.  I worked waiting tables and delivered pizzas and delivered newspapers.. at the same time.. None of these are sexy and get you blow jobs.  What they do is pay for school.  I didn't have a loan.  Didn't want one.

Someone went to college in the 90s or earlier.

Hell, he paid for school on just the tip money!


Tip and paper money.  That was to save up for school.
When actually in school, I set it up so classes ended and then I hit the books until my shift started at UPS.
Then, I drove home because I didn't have money to spend on room and board at school.

You guys are trying to say it is impossible to save 7,000 a year for college.
It probably IS, if you work 18 hours a week at a yogurt shop and your skill is making sure the sprinkles are evenly distributed.


Then.. you make fun of nannies, without bothering to think that nannies are cheaper than daycare.
 
2014-04-09 09:42:43 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: "You're not getting 8% on "tbills and bonds",
That is why the calculation was based on 4%.


Please show me a treasury bond that is paying 4.00% or better.
 
2014-04-09 09:52:23 AM  

mofa: 28-odd years ago, I started putting a whopping $13 per week into my 401K, and even that was painful given my student loans.  Despite my best efforts to screw it up, it's now above half a million.


According to my handy savings calculator, $13/week (round up to $60/mo) will get you up to half a million in 28 years -- assuming you earn more than 17% (compounded monthly) for that entire time.

For a more reasonable assumption of 8% yield, 28 years gets you up to almost $75K.

I'm assuming that you've increased your weekly contribution over the years. Leaving that out of your CSB is a bit disingenuous, though.
 
2014-04-09 09:56:11 AM  

joepainter: sigdiamond2000: Poor people shouldn't be allowed to own "flat screen" TVs. They should be forced to buy those tube televisions they don't even sell anymore.

Poor people don't own flat screens, the rent them from Aaron's for $50/week for 10 years.


and pay for them with pay-day loans
 
2014-04-09 09:58:00 AM  
I'm almost 40 and just recently realized that my parents were right.

Live within your means.
Try to save.
Don't buy what you don't need.

I've made good money over the past 10 years but I feel like I have nothing to show for it. (savings)
I am just now in a place where I have some decent savings after paying everything off, moving from the hip side of town and cooking at home.

unfortunately I'm almost 40. hahaha.

Live and learn my friends, live and learn.
 
2014-04-09 10:01:24 AM  

The Singing Bush: Nutsac_Jim: "You're not getting 8% on "tbills and bonds",
That is why the calculation was based on 4%.

Please show me a treasury bond that is paying 4.00% or better.


"Dividend stocks and t-bills."

but here you go

30-Yearhttp://www.treasurydirect.gov/instit/annceresult/annceresult_q uery.htm ?cusip=912810RD2" style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">912810RD2Yes12/16/201311/15/20433.900%3.750%

Nitpick about rounding if you must.
at 3.75, I guess the money only lasts 999 years instead of infinity.

The point is that it is fairly safe move for people thinking retirement and not wanting to think 'but but but what about 2008!!!!"
 
2014-04-09 10:12:27 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: "Dividend stocks and t-bills."


You said "tbills and bonds".  Regardless, even if you meant Dividend Stocks and T-bills, the highest paying T-bill right now is under 10 bps.  You're going to have to get some serious dividend yield to average 4.00%, unless your allocation is 90/10.

Nutsac_Jim: 912810RD2


That bond is trading at 3.55% today, so you're rounding quite a bit.  And it's a 30 year bond that will get absolutely destroyed once rates start going up.
 
2014-04-09 10:40:03 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: You guys are trying to say it is impossible to save 7,000 a year for college.


Did you check the title of the thread? 4 in 10 Americans can't come up with 2,000 extra dollars. Of course they can't come up with an extra 7,000. And that's not even the end of college costs.
 
2014-04-09 11:54:13 AM  

jfarkinB: I'm assuming that you've increased your weekly contribution over the years. Leaving that out of your CSB is a bit disingenuous, though.


Sorry; I thought it was obvious.  That was 2%; I went up to 6% within a few years, and then went on to vary it between 2% and 12% depending on various conditions.  "Despite my best efforts" was code for, "despite stupidly getting to the point where I was borrowing from my 401K to pay the mortgage on a farking condo that netted me a loss of $150K, essentially stealing from my retirement to pay a non-recourse loan and losing it, I have a little more than $500K in that account.  It's $1.5M less than I'd have if I weren't an idiot, but despite all that, it's a meaningful amount and I'm okay with it."

Despite being nearly a complete and total loser in this matter, and while watching slightly older boomers whistle while walking out the door at age 55 for the past couple of years, I nevertheless have a sum of money that, to my younger self, would have seemed outright impossible.

I know some people who've accidentally become multi-millionaires, and their savings advice consists of "make sure to create living trusts." That's useless, but people as lame as me can start from one deduction the size of dinner and a movie (sans movie) and, repeating that over and over (in gradually increasing amounts) for a few decades, we mortals, untouched by grace and inheriting naught but funeral bills, can save up enough to have a realistic component of our retirement.  I'm trying to say, "here is some advice that might actually be useful."

I know there are lots of people who don't have $13; half the people in my family can't pay their utilities on time.  But if you are lucky enough to have $13 a week that you might have used to pay for dinner and a movie (sans movie), if you can convince yourself that it's worth it, you can actually build wealth.  Not Rockefeller wealth, but it's better than nothing.  It took a lot of effort to convince myself it was worth it, and if you're trying to convince yourself, please add my anecdotal evidence to the "yes" side of the ledger.

In reality, being born in North America in the 1960s was the same as winning the lottery.  I can't help you do that.  All I can offer is to say that you can start from $0.00 and a lot of debt and make headway gradually over a long time.  As I said in some other thread, don't remove yourself from the playing field just because the game is unfair.  If that's the only game in town, that's your field.  I'm constantly trying to give my cousin hope and help, but she doesn't believe anything can ever change; I'm one step removed from that, but I'm pretty clear about her level of hoplessness and it's why I'm typing all of these words into this little text box.  It's critical to just keep pushing.

I'll leave with a Deep Thought (tm) that came up in conversation recently, and I literally did this a long time ago and several times since: "Pretend you're having a conversation with your 65 year old self through a time machine.  Explain yourself."
 
2014-04-09 11:58:56 AM  

fireclown: Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.


Definitely. Get the debt paying momentum going and you'd be amazed how quickly you can come to grips with it.

My story involves $70k in college debt and 7 months of unemployment. Once I got the full time career I plowed all my spare cash into paying down the college loans. At the peak, I was paying $2000+ per month towards them and wrapped them up 2 years ahead of schedule. Then I bought a brand new Lexus (fully financed of course)
 
2014-04-09 12:23:23 PM  

HaywoodJablonski: fireclown: Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.

Definitely. Get the debt paying momentum going and you'd be amazed how quickly you can come to grips with it.

My story involves $70k in college debt and 7 months of unemployment. Once I got the full time career I plowed all my spare cash into paying down the college loans. At the peak, I was paying $2000+ per month towards them and wrapped them up 2 years ahead of schedule. Then I bought a brand new Lexus (fully financed of course)


You apparently learned nothing.
 
2014-04-09 12:33:20 PM  

Pincy: HaywoodJablonski: fireclown: Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.

Definitely. Get the debt paying momentum going and you'd be amazed how quickly you can come to grips with it.

My story involves $70k in college debt and 7 months of unemployment. Once I got the full time career I plowed all my spare cash into paying down the college loans. At the peak, I was paying $2000+ per month towards them and wrapped them up 2 years ahead of schedule. Then I bought a brand new Lexus (fully financed of course)

You apparently learned nothing.


Heh. Sure I did. That was my reward for 7 years of frugality. I was socking away for retirement all the same but opted for some luxury. I wasn't exactly hurting in the income department by that point
 
2014-04-09 02:37:10 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.


I agree with you that retards will take the 12.5% and spend it.   It can not be stopped.  That is what retards do.

I would be 100% ok with mandating 10%  (or 12.5%) into a retirement plan.
It is for the good of everyone that people prepare for retirement.    Sort of like the excuses for Obamacare.

Call it the Save Dumbasses From Themselves Retirement Act.

Just make them save it.    I would also be ok with limiting investment choices.    I don't need people crying they put it all in WorldCom or Enron.  They can invest in the S&P, or T-bills if they are afraid.

But the money is there, in a REAL retirement account.


I'm sure that insurance companies will be standing in line to offer disability insurance and life insurance to 200 million clients.   I'm sure it could be offered a nice rate for a small percentage of your contribution.  Group term at its finest.


Hmm we already have that. It's call Social Security and in many companies 401K.
 
2014-04-09 02:53:50 PM  

mofa: jfarkinB: I'm assuming that you've increased your weekly contribution over the years. Leaving that out of your CSB is a bit disingenuous, though.

Sorry; I thought it was obvious.  That was 2%; I went up to 6% within a few years, and then went on to vary it between 2% and 12% depending on various conditions.  "Despite my best efforts" was code for, "despite stupidly getting to the point where I was borrowing from my 401K to pay the mortgage on a farking condo that netted me a loss of $150K, essentially stealing from my retirement to pay a non-recourse loan and losing it, I have a little more than $500K in that account.  It's $1.5M less than I'd have if I weren't an idiot, but despite all that, it's a meaningful amount and I'm okay with it."

Despite being nearly a complete and total loser in this matter, and while watching slightly older boomers whistle while walking out the door at age 55 for the past couple of years, I nevertheless have a sum of money that, to my younger self, would have seemed outright impossible.

I know some people who've accidentally become multi-millionaires, and their savings advice consists of "make sure to create living trusts." That's useless, but people as lame as me can start from one deduction the size of dinner and a movie (sans movie) and, repeating that over and over (in gradually increasing amounts) for a few decades, we mortals, untouched by grace and inheriting naught but funeral bills, can save up enough to have a realistic component of our retirement.  I'm trying to say, "here is some advice that might actually be useful."

I know there are lots of people who don't have $13; half the people in my family can't pay their utilities on time.  But if you are lucky enough to have $13 a week that you might have used to pay for dinner and a movie (sans movie), if you can convince yourself that it's worth it, you can actually build wealth.  Not Rockefeller wealth, but it's better than nothing.  It took a lot of effort to convince myself ...


I have been contributing to my 401K for the last 10 yrs and I only have 40K in it!
I must be doing something wrong!! WTF?!?!?
 
2014-04-09 03:00:33 PM  

GoldSpider: PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.


Actually you can for some jobs with certain apps. Seems like it wound be a pain though.
 
2014-04-09 05:27:48 PM  

The Singing Bush: Nutsac_Jim: "Dividend stocks and t-bills."

I'm sure that insurance companies will be standing in line to offer disability insurance and life insurance to 200 million clients.   I'm sure it could be offered a nice rate for a small percentage of your contribution.  Group term at its finest.

Hmm we already have that. It's call Social Security and in many companies 401K.



Who knew!?!  Now, if only we can mandate that your 12.5% goes into your 401k-type account, instead of the Ether, then we would have something.

Keep on loving the Soc Sec though.  Gov workers depend on their cut.
 
2014-04-09 05:53:59 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: I have been contributing to my 401K for the last 10 yrs and I only have 40K in it!
I must be doing something wrong!! WTF?!?!?


Glad you brought that up: part of the difficulty is that the magic of compound interest seems like a cruel joke in the early years.  I would not have said wonderful things about this at the ten year mark, but around 24 years in, my investment returns exceeded my yearly contribution.  The first time you see that, you get a big woody that lasts all day long.

Also, choose lower cost index funds, dollar cost averaging smooths out bad periods (such as 2000-2010) over a longer period, and things are still shiattier these days.
 
2014-04-09 08:12:12 PM  
For $50 dollars, I can introduce you to my system that will allow you to tap into a limitless supply of income. Only serious inquiries please!
 
2014-04-09 09:23:38 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: The Singing Bush: Nutsac_Jim: "Dividend stocks and t-bills."

I'm sure that insurance companies will be standing in line to offer disability insurance and life insurance to 200 million clients.   I'm sure it could be offered a nice rate for a small percentage of your contribution.  Group term at its finest.

Hmm we already have that. It's call Social Security and in many companies 401K.


Who knew!?!  Now, if only we can mandate that your 12.5% goes into your 401k-type account, instead of the Ether, then we would have something.

Keep on loving the Soc Sec though.  Gov workers depend on their cut.


Now if only you understood how Soc Sec works.
 
Displayed 424 of 424 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report