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(ABC News)   Americans are in such lousy financial shape that 4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000 if their lives depended on it   ( abcnews.go.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Americans, Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, Pew Charitable Trusts, Sufis, confidence interval  
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6908 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2014 at 10:16 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



420 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-08 08:54:18 AM  
Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.
 
2014-04-08 08:56:37 AM  
Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.
 
2014-04-08 09:02:48 AM  
Those four in ten are simply too greedy to sell off a few stocks.
 
2014-04-08 09:06:36 AM  
Of my ten closest friends, I believe at least seven of them would be unable to come up with $2,000 right now. One of the other three would probably have to tap their entire liquid savings to do it.
 
2014-04-08 09:11:48 AM  
*raises hand*

/yeah... I'm screwed
 
2014-04-08 09:24:19 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: *raises hand*

/yeah... I'm screwed


I was like this a few years ago. I had an old etrade account with an old rollover IRA (all of $1000) and discovered I could automatically transfer money in, so I did like $30 once a week.  You won't notice it's gone (hopefully) and next thing you know you have a bit of money in there.  There were a few times where it saved my bacon, but it takes a few days to transfer back so it's great to protect against impulse buys.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-04-08 09:45:20 AM  
Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.

Thank god ABC took a two year old story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.
 
2014-04-08 09:47:13 AM  
I have been like this for all the thirty years of my adult life... until this year. Now I have no debt other than a mortgage and that should be gone this year as well and I should have about a years pay left over

yay me
 
2014-04-08 09:52:54 AM  
I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.
 
2014-04-08 09:56:38 AM  
images2.dailykos.comView Full Size


"I don't understand. They can just borrow a small amount from their parents!?"
 
2014-04-08 09:57:03 AM  

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?
 
2014-04-08 09:58:54 AM  
vitaminw.coView Full Size

"Woah let me stop you there. Have you maxed out your credit cards yet?"
 
2014-04-08 09:59:41 AM  
I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.
 
2014-04-08 10:02:47 AM  
Poor people shouldn't be allowed to own "flat screen" TVs. They should be forced to buy those tube televisions they don't even sell anymore.
 
2014-04-08 10:08:35 AM  

Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


well, if the option is sell your car or bike or die right now, does the future really matter?
 
2014-04-08 10:09:10 AM  
also, I dnrtfa.
 
2014-04-08 10:11:32 AM  

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.
 
2014-04-08 10:17:15 AM  

SlothB77: Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

well, if the option is sell your car or bike or die right now, does the future really matter?


No it doesn't. Which is why:

Dimensio: In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.

 
2014-04-08 10:17:21 AM  

Dimensio: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


That's stupid. You can probably get credit cards on the internet for like 10 cents a pop. Cybertheft is the new rage and doesn't carry as hefty a prison term as armed robbery.
 
hej [TotalFark]
2014-04-08 10:19:29 AM  
What, are they too lazy to rob a bank, too?
 
2014-04-08 10:20:03 AM  
And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.
 
2014-04-08 10:20:10 AM  
I would need about three or four days to come up with it, a couple of grand. But a toe, I can get you a toe in an hour.
 
2014-04-08 10:20:49 AM  
I couldn't come up with $2,000 on the spot, generally speaking, but if my life depended on it, damn straight I would find a way.
 
2014-04-08 10:21:06 AM  

Serious Black: Of my ten closest friends, I believe at least seven of them would be unable to come up with $2,000 right now. One of the other three would probably have to tap their entire liquid savings to do it.


If I were fired today I could live for about 7-10yrs with no change in lifestyle. I realize I'm an exception to the rule. Most of my friends are dirt poor but then again, I hang with hot broke college girls.

/gym
/26 minutes etc
 
2014-04-08 10:21:39 AM  

doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.


Why are you so defensive about a simple statement of fact?
 
2014-04-08 10:22:36 AM  
Maybe they could sell their 'Dubs and their gold tooth dispaly, and cut back on the tats.
 
2014-04-08 10:22:39 AM  
mamascritics.comView Full Size

Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.
 
2014-04-08 10:22:44 AM  

bdub77: You can probably get credit cards on the internet for like 10 cents a pop.


That's one hell of a flexible "you" right there, buddy.
 
2014-04-08 10:23:03 AM  

sigdiamond2000: my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.


Oooh, that's a nice simile.
 
2014-04-08 10:24:10 AM  

GoldSpider: doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.

Why are you so defensive about a simple statement of fact?


I think your sarcasm meter is broken.
 
2014-04-08 10:25:34 AM  
I have about 250k I could pull out and still be debt free.

I know people my age who've worked the same jobs as me and have made as much or more, and can't seem to save a dime of it, so unless you've got mental disabilities, there is no reason you couldn't have worked and saved or invested money in a way to grow it and have some for a rainy day unless you've made some poor life choices, and let's face it.....4 in 10 Americans usually do make some pretty lousy life choices.
 
2014-04-08 10:27:21 AM  
This should make our elected officials nervous.
 
2014-04-08 10:27:29 AM  

The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.


dilbert.comView Full Size
 
2014-04-08 10:28:16 AM  

GoldSpider: doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.

Why are you so defensive about a simple statement of fact?


Because being poor is a moral failing. If they just ate beans and lived in shared apartments, they could save up enough to get out their situations. The free market rewards hard work and innovation. Look at all the money Nikola Tesla made from his billion dollar patent portfolio.
 
2014-04-08 10:30:32 AM  
More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.
 
2014-04-08 10:30:41 AM  

fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.


Haven't listen to him in awhile but, in my opinion, he only got nutty around the Jesus stuff which he seemed to try to keep to minimum.   Most of his financial advice seemed pretty spot on for people struggling with money.  It took me awhile to get Mrs. Physt on board with the program but we paid off $38K in debt in less than a year and haven't looked back. Life has certainly gotten easier since we simplified all the bills as well.

Dave does a pretty good job of "reparenting" for people that are acting childish about money.  I love to hear him kick ass when someone making $25K a year is driving around in a $30K truck when he's got bills to pay.
 
2014-04-08 10:32:00 AM  

svanmeter: This should make our elected officials nervous.


Nah, they're fine.

cloudfront.mediamatters.orgView Full Size


doglover: If they just ate beans and lived in shared apartments, they could save up enough to get out their situations.


The funny thing is, your sarcasm works on multiple levels. If they really did try to get into hostel-type living arrangements and the whole thing took off, landlords would just jack up the rates or buy laws making it illegal for more than two unrelated person to live together in a single residence.

/ it's almost like something is draining the pockets of the low and middle working classes
// like... like some sort of upward trickling effect centered on people without the means to fight back
 
2014-04-08 10:32:01 AM  

The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.


4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]
 
2014-04-08 10:33:20 AM  

skozlaw: The funny thing is, your sarcasm works on multiple levels.


I totally didn't know that.

;)
 
2014-04-08 10:33:28 AM  
Wages have fallen and prices have risen to the point where Americans are in such lousy financial shape that 4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000 if their lives depended on it.

Fixed that for you Wall Street.
 
2014-04-08 10:33:59 AM  

physt: fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.

Haven't listen to him in awhile but, in my opinion, he only got nutty around the Jesus stuff which he seemed to try to keep to minimum.   Most of his financial advice seemed pretty spot on for people struggling with money.  It took me awhile to get Mrs. Physt on board with the program but we paid off $38K in debt in less than a year and haven't looked back. Life has certainly gotten easier since we simplified all the bills as well.

Dave does a pretty good job of "reparenting" for people that are acting childish about money.  I love to hear him kick ass when someone making $25K a year is driving around in a $30K truck when he's got bills to pay.


It's no different than all the diet gurus.  People know what to do, they know how to do it, they just need their ass kicked hard enough to go do it.  Spend less than you make.  Eat less than you burn.  The rest is just gimmicky bullshiat.
 
2014-04-08 10:33:59 AM  
If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.
 
2014-04-08 10:35:41 AM  
We're by no means well off, but we are pretty careful with our spending. We could come up with $2k but it would pretty much wipe out the accounts until the next paycheck rolled around. I've been there before where an unexpected expense of $300 or so caused a ton of pain, and don't want to be there again if at all possible, so I try to keep a $2k or so buffer in there.

What would really be nice is to be at a point where I could put some real money away.
 
2014-04-08 10:38:05 AM  

ZAZ: Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.

Thank god ABC took a two year old story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.


Just curious, how much has your salary increased in the past two years?  Things keep getting more and more expensive, yet employers don't want to seem to shell out any raise money.  It's not just me, it's the entire staff at the company for whom I work.
 
2014-04-08 10:38:17 AM  

Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]


Fractions speak louder than words
 
2014-04-08 10:38:25 AM  

SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.


Although I don't have any of the things mentioned in your hint, I have to admit that both A and B apply to me and yes, B is the main factor in A. My only 'luxury' is my 3mb DSL connection, which I think would actually end up costing me more if I didn't have it.
 
2014-04-08 10:39:11 AM  

SlothB77: also, I dnrtfa.


That's on your family crest.
 
2014-04-08 10:40:06 AM  
Gee, I wonder why?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11098797/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/ us -savings-rate-hits-lowest-level/#.U0QJlPldWzk

In 2006, 2 years before the Great Recession, American's already had a negative savings rate over the year.

In case the powers that be haven't figured it out: there's damn near no more blood to be squeezed out of the middle and lower classes... they are already on razor thin margins as it is.
 
2014-04-08 10:40:45 AM  
Well my bank only allows $1000 per day withdrawal from savings at an ATM so I would have to get into a branch to get $2000 in one day.

I'm part of the 60%
 
2014-04-08 10:42:15 AM  
I was like this until about 33 or 34, and that seems pretty common.  Another reason to not start a family until then.
 
2014-04-08 10:43:00 AM  
Failure to raise $2000 for a down payment on an attorney causes students and young adults to plead guilty in cases where they really shouldn't.  Over their lifetime this simple mistake will lower their lifetime earning potential by several hundred thousand dollars.  The mistake is magnified when you consider that they probably COULD have sold their car or borrowed the $2000 from GrandMa if they were not embarrassed to admit they got busted with drugs or for petty theft.
 
2014-04-08 10:43:11 AM  
i512.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2014-04-08 10:43:14 AM  

Wasilla Hillbilly: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

Although I don't have any of the things mentioned in your hint, I have to admit that both A and B apply to me and yes, B is the main factor in A. My only 'luxury' is my 3mb DSL connection, which I think would actually end up costing me more if I didn't have it.



I purposely didn't list an internet connection. Having internet can save people a tons of money shopping and also helps with finding a job (or doing a job). I sort of consider internet a staple at this point. It's hard to be a part of society without it.
 
2014-04-08 10:43:30 AM  
I need to call the Wu and diversify my bonds.  I could produce $2k right now, but I really need to start saving for retirement.
 
2014-04-08 10:43:31 AM  
This should be as good a time as any to correct our culture of consumerism, but parents need to buy their kids a $200 pair of headphones because fark you, that's why.
 
2014-04-08 10:44:29 AM  
I won't make wild accusations.  I'll just CSB for you.

I was there, broke, living paycheck to paycheck, sometimes borrowing from a future paycheck just to have money now to pay bills I thought I couldn't pay.   One day I woke up and said I can't do this anymore.  I stopped going out if I didn't really have the money.  I stopped all the extras that I really didn't need.  I put myself on a budget.  I sold some stuff and paid the lowest balance credit cards first just to feel better about my situation.  Then I just kept working to pay off stuff one at a time.

10 years later I have a better job, money in the bank, more money in another bank, a new house, money to blow on fun things,  only two credit cards with zero balance on them,  and still following a budget.

It takes some sacrifice, but you can do it.  I know, I've been there.

WRITE IT DOWN.  Just shutup with the excuses and WRITE IT DOWN.  You'd be surprised at the amount you piss away and not know it.
 
2014-04-08 10:44:41 AM  

SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.


I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.
 
2014-04-08 10:44:51 AM  

Dadoody: I have about 250k I could pull out and still be debt free.

I know people my age who've worked the same jobs as me and have made as much or more, and can't seem to save a dime of it, so unless you've got mental disabilities, there is no reason you couldn't have worked and saved or invested money in a way to grow it and have some for a rainy day unless you've made some poor life choices, and let's face it.....4 in 10 Americans usually do make some pretty lousy life choices.


Poor life choices, such as a major medical expense, divorce where you're wiped out completely by you're biatch of an ex-wife and her farking man-hating lesbo attorney, and having to file for bankruptcy to clear the remaining debt so you can buy some food and pay rent at the same time.

/Still happier than I've been in a long time./
/why is divorce so expensive? Because it's WORTH IT!/
 
2014-04-08 10:45:07 AM  

Slypork: Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]

Fractions speak louder than words


Booooo.
 
2014-04-08 10:45:27 AM  

fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.


QFT.  Step 0: Stop spending more than you earn.
 
2014-04-08 10:45:31 AM  

SpectroBoy: Wasilla Hillbilly: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

Although I don't have any of the things mentioned in your hint, I have to admit that both A and B apply to me and yes, B is the main factor in A. My only 'luxury' is my 3mb DSL connection, which I think would actually end up costing me more if I didn't have it.


I purposely didn't list an internet connection. Having internet can save people a tons of money shopping and also helps with finding a job (or doing a job). I sort of consider internet a staple at this point. It's hard to be a part of society without it.


Also if you're living on your own, you're wasting money.
 
2014-04-08 10:46:24 AM  

doglover: Serves those stupid poors right. They should take better care of their trust funds.



lol.   maybe we should ask some folks where all that middle/working class wealth went these last few years??   methinks, no, meknows it went upstream to its owners where it belongs.
 
2014-04-08 10:46:26 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: 10 years later I have a better job, money in the bank, more money in another bank, a new house, money to blow on fun things,  only two credit cards with zero balance on them,  and still following a budget.

It takes some sacrifice, but you can do it.  I know, I've been there


PRIVILEGE!!!
 
2014-04-08 10:47:08 AM  

Dimensio: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


Only if you put careful thought into whom to burgle.  I mean, 40% of us can't come up with that much to save our lives.
 
2014-04-08 10:47:44 AM  

hej: What, are they too lazy to rob a bank, too?



the bank is robbing them.  most just don't know it.
 
2014-04-08 10:48:10 AM  

Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.


Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.
 
2014-04-08 10:48:37 AM  

skozlaw: svanmeter: This should make our elected officials nervous.

Nah, they're fine.

[cloudfront.mediamatters.org image 636x480]

doglover: If they just ate beans and lived in shared apartments, they could save up enough to get out their situations.

The funny thing is, your sarcasm works on multiple levels. If they really did try to get into hostel-type living arrangements and the whole thing took off, landlords would just jack up the rates or buy laws making it illegal for more than two unrelated person to live together in a single residence.

/ it's almost like something is draining the pockets of the low and middle working classes
// like... like some sort of upward trickling effect centered on people without the means to fight back


Saw a documentary on Housing Projects in the '60s. Very interesting. Basically it was a Republicans wet dream. If the family had a man who was of working age, he couldn't live with the family. That's right, they would separate families. Control was absolute, you were not allowed to have TVs or much of anything that would make you not poor.

There's a reason the projects became breeding grounds for drugs and gangs and most of it stems from the 1960s and the idea of being forced to stay in poverty in order to have a roof. The GOP would love to return to that standard, it seems.
 
2014-04-08 10:48:55 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Wages have fallen and prices have risen to the point where Americans are in such lousy financial shape that 4 in 10 say they could not come up with $2,000 if their lives depended on it.

Fixed that for you Wall Street.



well done.  Great repair job.
 
2014-04-08 10:49:22 AM  
I am in the 60% of us who can come up with $2,000.
 
2014-04-08 10:50:25 AM  

PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.



computerized applications are much easier to delete than a bunch of paper applications.  its much more convenient.
 
2014-04-08 10:51:16 AM  
That still counts as change.
 
2014-04-08 10:52:38 AM  

PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.


Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.
 
2014-04-08 10:53:36 AM  

trotsky: Saw a documentary on Housing Projects in the '60s. Very interesting. Basically it was a Republicans wet dream. If the family had a man who was of working age, he couldn't live with the family. That's right, they would separate families. Control was absolute, you were not allowed to have TVs or much of anything that would make you not poor.

There's a reason the projects became breeding grounds for drugs and gangs and most of it stems from the 1960s and the idea of being forced to stay in poverty in order to have a roof. The GOP would love to return to that standard, it seems.


Sounds like pretty much every social program that came out of LBJ's war on poverty.
 
2014-04-08 10:53:37 AM  

PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.


I sort of agree on that but the data plan quickly gets more expensive than the phone.

And libraries have free computers too.
 
2014-04-08 10:53:37 AM  
If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.
 
2014-04-08 10:55:04 AM  

GoldSpider: PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.


Anyone who thinks you don't need one hasn't worked in awhile.
 
2014-04-08 10:55:44 AM  

GoldSpider: PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.


I wouldn't say it's the only way, but it does make the process a lot easier.
 
2014-04-08 10:56:06 AM  

doglover: GoldSpider: PanicMan: Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

Anyone who thinks you can apply for a job with a smartphone hasn't applied for a job in a while.

Anyone who thinks you don't need one hasn't worked in awhile.


If you're working a job that  requires a smartphone, you shouldn't be part of this article
 
2014-04-08 10:56:31 AM  
Yes, I'm basically in that group. And yes, it's my fault.
 
2014-04-08 10:57:26 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.


This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"
 
2014-04-08 10:58:03 AM  
Why is this sad? I say it depends on the demographics the question was asked to. I mean are we talking about a bunch of 20 yr olds or a bunch of 50 yr olds? if the latter than yes sad indeed but 20 yr olds...not only is it not sad but to the contrary and actually amazing if 40% of 20 yr olds can come up with $2K on a whim. I sure as heck couldn't when I was 20 or even at 25 w/o borrowing.

If it's evenly spread across the board across all racial, social and age groups than 40% is probably 'normal'.

Article is a false flag and sensationalism for the sake of sensationalism. If you want to find root cause you need to dive deeper and more granular. Break it down by age groups, by race, geography and other factors instead of just a blanket 40% of Americans.
 
2014-04-08 10:58:37 AM  

Serious Black: I wouldn't say it's the only way, but it does make the process a lot easier.


Around this time last year I was looking for work and applying for a lot of jobs.  Most of the sites I applied on were kludgy and confusing and poorly-designed, and that was from a laptop!  No way in hell most of them would have worked from a smartphone.
 
2014-04-08 10:58:38 AM  
I just had a friend (who I haven't really talked to in years) ask to borrow $500.00.  I felt so bad telling her "no" because I knew it would ruin our friendship and be awkward.  It makes me feel bad to say no, but I'd feel worse asking for it back.
 
2014-04-08 10:59:06 AM  
Good thing my life doesn't depend on coming up with $2000 on the spot.

Got a credit account good at doctors, dentists and veterinarians. Plenty of room on it, and I always pay it off in 6 months.
Got another credit account good at my mechanic, same deal.
Stray cash gets spent on better food and "necessities", so I send a painful amount to my 401K, where it doesn't get raided. (Why yes, I'm married.)

Hold a gun to my head and demand $2000? Yeah, I'm phoning a friend. Several people I know have more than $2000 cash and would part with it to keep me alive. Barring asking for help, how poor would you have to be to not even know a loan shark?
 
2014-04-08 10:59:31 AM  
Count me among that number.

If I liquidated all my assets, including my car, furniture, and the box of computer parts in the garage, I might be able to get 2000 if I had to have the cash today.

I'm thankful every day for the insurance plan that keeps the kids healthy.
 
2014-04-08 11:01:42 AM  

SordidEuphemism: Count me among that number.

If I liquidated all my assets, including my car, furniture, and the box of computer parts in the garage, I might be able to get 2000 if I had to have the cash today.

I'm thankful every day for the insurance plan that keeps the kids healthy.


See my wife and I had a slightly different financial plan. We didn't have kids until we had a good $20k of liquid assets in case of emergency.

12 in one hand... etc
 
2014-04-08 11:02:11 AM  
I like to think of it more in terms of "how much could I disappear with within a few days?"  You know, cash out the IRA, CDs, 401k, max out the credit card cash advances, drain the checking and savings, and sell the house for cash.

Makes me feel more secret agent and less poor.
 
2014-04-08 11:04:54 AM  

SpectroBoy: PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

I sort of agree on that but the data plan quickly gets more expensive than the phone.

And libraries have free computers too.


Gotta agree with this.  I don't have cable TV, or a smart phone and it's accompanying ridiculous fees and just by eliminating those two things, you too, could easily come up with $2,000.00.
 
2014-04-08 11:05:36 AM  
I'm poor and I could come up with 2k if I had to.  I would go to prison afterwards, but yea $2k wouldnt be an issue.

One of you would be out $2k though.
 
2014-04-08 11:06:11 AM  

lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.


I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.
 
2014-04-08 11:06:44 AM  

MugzyBrown: If you're working a job that requires a smartphone, you shouldn't be part of this article


You'd think that, but then you'd be wrong.

And to be fair I COULD get by without a smart phone. I'd just have to print out a million documents each week like maps and schedules etc.
 
2014-04-08 11:07:14 AM  
Then let's do the environment some good, and demand an immediate $2,000 tax payment for carbon offset, with lives depending on it.

We could stand to lose about 40M slacker loser parasite pieces of shiat around here. We would lose the anchors and albatrosses around our necks, and nothing of value.
 
2014-04-08 11:10:06 AM  

doglover: SlothB77: Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

well, if the option is sell your car or bike or die right now, does the future really matter?

No it doesn't. Which is why:

Dimensio: In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


Finally, we are getting somewhere!
 
2014-04-08 11:10:54 AM  
How do we rank against other countries in that regard.  Could people in Germany come up with $1450 euros just as easily?
 
2014-04-08 11:11:07 AM  
So with Microsoft abandoning support for XP, are people going to go out and buy a tablet? Are they going to go out and buy a new OS and try to install it on their old desktop? Are they going to buy an off-lease or refurb desktop with a newer OS? Are they going to buy a new desktop with a new OS then pay to upgrade 8.1?

Can 4 out of 10 Americans scrape enough money together to do any of those things?

/apparently, 75% of the ATMs in the US use a flavor of XP....
 
2014-04-08 11:11:27 AM  

Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


Making money, huhwut? If you can't cough up 2K, then you clearly aren't driving that car to a job anyway. Not driving to the liquor store is the only downside to selling the car.
 
2014-04-08 11:12:55 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: If you want to find root cause you need to dive deeper and more granular. Break it down by age groups, by race, geography and other factors instead of just a blanket 40% of Americans.


Yep. There's got to be some way to classify people so that you can safely say this is a problem for "them", not for "us".
 
2014-04-08 11:13:03 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Gotta agree with this.  I don't have cable TV, or a smart phone and it's accompanying ridiculous fees and just by eliminating those two things, you too, could easily come up with $2,000.00.


When I finally figured out I needed to budget a few years ago, the first thing to get cut was the cable and phone.  Dropping the digital package and going to just-Internet and basic cable (cheaper than without any cable package) took my bill from $110 to $50.  Dropping my AT&T contract and switching to Virgin Mobile dropped my bill from $85 to $25.

Not counting any other re-prioritization, that was an extra $120 per month to put away.

15% of Americans live in poverty.  The remaining 25% are doing it wrong.
 
2014-04-08 11:13:28 AM  

SevenizGud: Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

Making money, huhwut? If you can't cough up 2K, then you clearly aren't driving that car to a job anyway. Not driving to the liquor store is the only downside to selling the car.


Not really, at least you couldn't get an OVI.
 
kab
2014-04-08 11:16:26 AM  
If only poor people would stop buying stuff, it would fix everything, including unemployment!
 
2014-04-08 11:16:38 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k


The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?
 
2014-04-08 11:16:53 AM  

SevenizGud: Then let's do the environment some good, and demand an immediate $2,000 tax payment for carbon offset, with lives depending on it.

We could stand to lose about 40M slacker loser parasite pieces of shiat around here. We would lose the anchors and albatrosses around our necks, and nothing of value.


You know who else wanted to kill 40M people he didn't like?
 
2014-04-08 11:20:51 AM  
There are many instances (not all, but many) where this is the fault of stupid Americans.  Dumbasses that decided that it was ok to keep spending beyond their means, or other dumbasses that thought that they didn't need an education to succeed in this world.  Or the other dumbasses that did the house-flipping thing to the point that they never thought the bubble would pop.

It's a real simple lesson to learn:  When you need money and don't have money, it sucks.  When you make money every week/month, but then spend all of your money on stupid shiat, and don't save any money, you end up not having money when you need money.

What's killing many in this country is the large amounts of credit card debt.  You gotta pay for it eventually, and paying cost + 18-25% every month is the stupidest of all the forms of stupid.  I get that nobody can pull $20,000 out of their ass for a car or more than that for a house, but other than that, there's really no reason whatsoever to go into debt to anyone, let alone a credit card company.
 
2014-04-08 11:21:25 AM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


The average US Household only 2.6 people.. so 2 parents and half of a kid.

$51k isn't that bad for most areas of the country in that situation
 
2014-04-08 11:21:30 AM  
I'd loan money to friends if I knew them well and could get some sort of collateral.

Amusingly enough, I just got through coaching my kids that there are no such things as "loans between friends"

There's either gifts, with no expectation of ever getting anything back, or soon-to-be-ex-friends with your money they'll never repay.

Later, when they're a bit older, we'll go over the whole "collateral" thing and talk about compound interest.  For the next few years, that rule will work just fine.  Yesterday one of them bought their friend a school lunch when they forgot to bring theirs, just as a gift.  Way to go, they understood me, I'm very proud.
 
2014-04-08 11:21:38 AM  

Clever Neologism: In case the powers that be haven't figured it out: there's damn near no more blood to be squeezed out of the middle and lower classes... they are already on razor thin margins as it is.


And then we are blamed and judged for it being that bad, too.
 
2014-04-08 11:22:38 AM  

Serious Black: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


My primary transportation? an extremely well worn 6 cylinder powered Chevy II Nova station wagon that I paid $200 for, God knows how many years ago. It has to have easily over 1/4 million miles on it by now, but it gets me to point A and point B amazingly reliably. I can't afford to replace it under today's Obama economy. At least my registration is super cheap and it's exempt from inspections.
 
2014-04-08 11:23:47 AM  
Well, this sucks. Most of my extended family is there (unable to come up with $2k).

I'm lucky that our household is not there. One more mortgage payment and we're done. Financially, everything looks great, including kids' college savings, retirement, liquid savings, good cars, etc.

Guess who still watches TV on a CRT. I'm actually the only one in my family not watching TV in HD. We certainly didn't spend our way into our situation. Blessed to have good jobs as well.
 
2014-04-08 11:24:00 AM  

Cold_Sassy: SpectroBoy: PanicMan: Serious Black: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

I don't think those things are universally bad ways to prioritize spending. If I go on a job interview in an old, wrinkly, holey, poorly-fitting outfit, that will inevitably leave a bad first impression on the interviewer and make them think less of you before you even get to shake their hand. Netflix is a super-cheap entertainment source compared to a lot of alternatives. A smart phone may be a bad option, but people at least need a phone today, so buying a cell phone is a pretty good idea.

Most jobs you can only apply online for. A smartphone (or laptop) is pretty much a necessity now.

I sort of agree on that but the data plan quickly gets more expensive than the phone.

And libraries have free computers too.

Gotta agree with this.  I don't have cable TV, or a smart phone and it's accompanying ridiculous fees and just by eliminating those two things, you too, could easily come up with $2,000.00.


$45 a month for unlimited everything is hardly ridiculous.

You guys make it way too easy to tell if you are part of the 4 or the 6.
 
2014-04-08 11:24:16 AM  
My in-laws seem to be pretty well-off.  If I need 2 large, I'll just dose some of that fast-acting cancer powder into their metamucil.
 
2014-04-08 11:24:39 AM  
Not after paying personal property taxes yesterday...


/I could sell a few items for some quick cash but not for the value I have in them.
 
2014-04-08 11:27:18 AM  

sandi_fish: I just had a friend (who I haven't really talked to in years) ask to borrow $500.00.  I felt so bad telling her "no" because I knew it would ruin our friendship and be awkward.  It makes me feel bad to say no, but I'd feel worse asking for it back.


I never loan money to friends. I will give it to them, though. And I always tell them if they ever feel that they need to pay me back I will accept their money as a gift. It keeps the "loan" from becoming an issue in the friendship, and it also limits how much I'm willing to give since I know once it's gone, it's gone.
 
2014-04-08 11:27:28 AM  

kab: If only poor people would stop buying stuff, it would fix everything, including unemployment!


Fun fact: conservative fiscal policy suggests they believe that if you give a rich person a $1,000,000 tax break that they hoard because they had no use for it, it will benefit the economy more than if you raise a poor person's wage by $1500 a year and they spend all of it on things they need.
 
2014-04-08 11:29:22 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: I won't make wild accusations.  I'll just CSB for you.

I was there, broke, living paycheck to paycheck, sometimes borrowing from a future paycheck just to have money now to pay bills I thought I couldn't pay.   One day I woke up and said I can't do this anymore.  I stopped going out if I didn't really have the money.  I stopped all the extras that I really didn't need.  I put myself on a budget.  I sold some stuff and paid the lowest balance credit cards first just to feel better about my situation.  Then I just kept working to pay off stuff one at a time.

10 years later I have a better job, money in the bank, more money in another bank, a new house, money to blow on fun things,  only two credit cards with zero balance on them,  and still following a budget.

It takes some sacrifice, but you can do it.  I know, I've been there.

WRITE IT DOWN.  Just shutup with the excuses and WRITE IT DOWN.  You'd be surprised at the amount you piss away and not know it.


This is what helped me get out of debt.  I kept an Excel spreadsheet of the budget.  Something like

Current Balance, Paychecks In, bills, CC1, CC2, CC3, CC4, Car, remainder (food and fun)

Bills just had to be paid and I started with the lowest credit cards first.  Writing it down month by month actually got me excited because I could see "Hey, in 4 months I pay this one then I put cc1 to cc2, holy shiat! I can pay off CC2 8 months after that!" and so on.  It gave me the light at the end of the tunnel.  By the time i focused on the car I was paying basically double payments and paid it off in 3 years instead of 5, which was good cuz my interest rate was criminal because my credit was so terrible (22-23% can't remember which).  Oh and I also forced myself to put money in savings (and not touch it except for emergencies or unexpected expenses).  Might have just been $25 a month to start.  I tried to balance increasing my savings as I paid off debt so that I kept building myself a bigger cushion.  Come to think of it this was almost exactly 10 years ago for me as well.  Same deal, now I've got a house, 3 months emergency savings, 401k, and other investments.  Sadly, I'm so far the only one in my immediate family who has learned this lesson.
 
2014-04-08 11:29:37 AM  
Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.
(Invest: You give them some money, they almost promise to give it back to you later.)

So you are not a dumbass, (90% of the American public are extreme dumbasses) and you make 100k (more than twice the median household income) just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on
(minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.

Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn't give my kiddo's a huge perverse incentive to poison my Sanka.
 
2014-04-08 11:31:01 AM  
I can get $2000, but I'll have to lay low for a while.

/warn me if you hear sirens.
 
2014-04-08 11:34:06 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.

This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"


It's illegal for somebody paying off a bankruptcy to have savings like that.  If I could set $85 every two weeks aside I could add an additional $170 a month to the payment schedule.  I wish I had that kind of extra money available.  It would take a few months off the back end.  After that's all paid off then I get to save money.  A lot of money.  Enough for a down payment on a house in just a couple of years.  But until then, savings means having a couple hundred in the bank at the end of the month and that's it.  Everything else is gone.

And no, the bankruptcy wasn't due to excessive spending on my part.  My ex-wife didn't pay her part of the debts after we were divorced.  She lied, I was sued for the money and socked with thousands of extra debt.  More legal bullshiat has to happen before I can get that money back.
 
2014-04-08 11:35:24 AM  
Strange, Republicans and Libertarians keep saying that individuals should have total control of their money, because they know better how to handle it than the government. And yet it appears that if we did dump SS/Medicare/etc there would be millions that would have to work until they died just to make ends meet, or end up starving on the street.
 
2014-04-08 11:35:28 AM  
The entitlement mentality in this thread has exceeded my ability to comprehend.

My daughter is 22, a recent college graduate, and could come up with 2K (cash) on her way home from work if she had to.  Ya know why?  She <GASP> works two jobs to support herself.  One full-time, and one part.  Know why else?  While she does have a smart phone, she also doesn't spend all day playing games and posting to fark whining about her life.  She's too busy working to improve it because she understands that a career has to be built.  It doesn't just get handed to you because you were born.

/   If anyone wants to know the average intellect of the typical farker, all you have to do is look at the post-count in EVERY 'wrestling' thread as opposed to all the other threads combined.
//  "Something other than wrestling happened".  0 to maybe 400.
///  RASSLIN' = Eleventy Brazilian.
 
2014-04-08 11:36:29 AM  

SurfaceTension: sandi_fish: I just had a friend (who I haven't really talked to in years) ask to borrow $500.00.  I felt so bad telling her "no" because I knew it would ruin our friendship and be awkward.  It makes me feel bad to say no, but I'd feel worse asking for it back.

I never loan money to friends. I will give it to them, though. And I always tell them if they ever feel that they need to pay me back I will accept their money as a gift. It keeps the "loan" from becoming an issue in the friendship, and it also limits how much I'm willing to give since I know once it's gone, it's gone.


I agree, that is how you would have to treat it.  Since we had not really talked in awhile, I didn't feel the need to give her that. Knowing the financial position she was in, she would not likely be able to give it back.
 
2014-04-08 11:36:51 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Strange, Republicans and Libertarians keep saying that individuals should have total control of their money, because they know better how to handle it than the government. And yet it appears that if we did dump SS/Medicare/etc there would be millions that would have to work until they died just to make ends meet, or end up starving on the street.


Strange we spend billions and billions on government programs and people are still poor and still need to work their whole lives just to make ends meet
 
2014-04-08 11:38:36 AM  

MugzyBrown: doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?

The average US Household only 2.6 people.. so 2 parents and half of a kid.

$51k isn't that bad for most areas of the country in that situation


He don't eat much and occasionally gets a job as a beggar in stage productions of Oliver Twist.
 
2014-04-08 11:39:06 AM  
I'm this close...


i188.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2014-04-08 11:40:57 AM  
I really hate to sound like a complete dick about this, because I know I have been very lucky in life to this point. And whatever success I have managed to enjoy has been only partially attributable to my own efforts, attitudes and commitments.

But still...it needs to be said.

The only reason I spend a couple of hours each day making snarky comments on internet discussion boards is because I can afford to. And if I couldn't, then I wouldn't.
 
2014-04-08 11:41:28 AM  
Yeah, a lot of people wiped out/lost all their reserves surviving the Bush recession.
 
2014-04-08 11:42:15 AM  

naughtyrev: Thank god ABC took a story that should have all Americans concerned and put it in slideshow format.


More Americans will probably see it this way.
 
2014-04-08 11:42:36 AM  
This is why we don't have a thriving kidnap and ransom economy in the United States.
 
2014-04-08 11:43:20 AM  

KeatingFive: Yeah, a lot of people wiped out/lost all their reserves surviving the Bush recession.


Frizbone: I can't afford to replace it under today's Obama economy.


IT'S SOMEONE ELSES FAULT!
 
2014-04-08 11:44:53 AM  
Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.
 
2014-04-08 11:45:07 AM  

lennavan: It's no different than all the diet gurus. People know what to do, they know how to do it, they just need their ass kicked hard enough to go do it. Spend less than you make. Eat less than you burn. The rest is just gimmicky bullshiat.


I strongly agree with both of those statements.    The thing about the household fund of $1.5K is that it is the approximate amount of a household emergency.  If you have the cash handy, when your car needs new wheel bearings, or you hot water heater dies, you have it covered.   You don't have to dig deeper into the hole that you're digging out of.  It allows you to manage instead of react.
 
2014-04-08 11:45:57 AM  

Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick


I call bullshiat on that statement :)
 
2014-04-08 11:46:47 AM  

SlothB77: doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.


The car?  Sure.  That'd be the #1 asset for millions of Americans.  Of course, a lot couldn't readily sell it for much more than they have on the note.

The flat-screen TV?  The 40-50" TVs the middle-class have are $350 or so brand new at Best Buy.  They might get $150 on Craigslist
The couch?  Either they got it used or they're still paying it off.  In any event, dozens of couches are $125 or less on Craigslist in my town.  Hell, a not insignificant number are free.
Bike?  Again, Walmart/Target sell a lot more of them than proper bike shops.  And Walmart/Target bikes ain't worth poop.  $50 at most.  If they did buy a semi-quality Specialized or Trek... $100-150 used.

So, car, yes, that would be the "thing they could sell".  All the other trinkets?  Are pretty much rounding errors in terms of realizable value.
 
2014-04-08 11:47:29 AM  
trotsky:
Saw a documentary on Housing Projects in the '60s. Very interesting. Basically it was a Republicans wet dream. If the family had a man who was of working age, he couldn't live with the family. That's right, they would separate families. Control was absolute, you were not allowed to have TVs or much of anything that would make you not poor.


The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.  All he has to do is show up after 10pm, after the kids are in bed.  That is no way to promote a work ethic.
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.comView Full Size


even that aside.  If he actually had a job, it would be money into the household, which means less money is going to mom, because her current benefits were based on her saying she had no money.
So letting him stay there, costs her money.  Can she count on him giving her the money every 2 weeks?
 
2014-04-08 11:48:22 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


Don't post numbers in a liberal forum, drives them nuts. Government knows best. People should not be allowed to take care of themselves, it is not fair.
 
2014-04-08 11:49:24 AM  

lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.


Can I get that deal without having to vote (R)?
 
2014-04-08 11:49:27 AM  

BigChad: I'm this close...


[i188.photobucket.com image 750x600]


you were supposed to ask...

/isn't that the supposed to ask kid?
 
2014-04-08 11:49:45 AM  

Thunderpipes: Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.


You realize that not even communist China does this, right?  You must by in PRK.  Did you have sawdust or dirt for lunch?
 
2014-04-08 11:50:33 AM  
Serious Black: So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

Different people have different situations, obviously, but this is exactly why I deliberately moved to a small city with a viable bus system when I was just starting out.  I knew I was poor and a car was a mouth to feed. It probably saved me about $40,000 between the time I moved out of my dad's house and the day I finally bought another car with an income over $75k.

If you haven't done something that's already cornered you, it's a good decision when you're young.
 
2014-04-08 11:51:43 AM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


They take the same 12.5% from mom and dad, no matter what.  No need for names.

I'm suggesting someone is stealing from mom and dad.  They are just being told it is good for them.
 
2014-04-08 11:51:51 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.


Yes. This is totally the majority of all people.

Keep farking that chicken.


thecount.comView Full Size
 
2014-04-08 11:52:01 AM  

Carn: Thunderpipes: Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.

You realize that not even communist China does this, right?  You must by in PRK.  Did you have sawdust or dirt for lunch?


Alternative Minimum Income Tax Credit.  But no, I plan on a nice turkey sub from Sheetz.
 
2014-04-08 11:53:32 AM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: you make 100k

The median household income, not individual income, HOUSEHOLD income was $51,371 farkwit.

Let's re-adjust that math. How does a household, 2 parents and 2.5 kids, get by on $51,371 and still sock away anywhere neat that much money?


I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.

The median household income includes students, retirees, singles, etc., and is not representative of families with children.
 
2014-04-08 11:53:46 AM  

BMFPitt: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

Can I get that deal without having to vote (R)?


God how I would love to be able to opt out of SS/Medicare.  Hell I would just take my 7% instead of the whole 14% if I had to to get out.
 
2014-04-08 11:54:09 AM  

Gary-L: Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick

I call bullshiat on that statement :)


No, I really did feel badly about saying that. But I still think it needed to be said.
 
2014-04-08 11:55:07 AM  
For most people on the lower to lower middle class spectrum, money is a bit of an abstraction, and they develop the habit of easy in, easy out.  I was like that when I was a teen (I grew up relatively poor), and it was only in my mid 20s that I started to save up. The kids have 529s with another ten years to go before they need them, we had a sizable down payment on the house, and we have few other big bills.  We paid off our cars early, and, yeah, they're older (my wife's car turned 12, mine 7), but they still have zero maintenance attached to them.  No, we may not have thermometers and Bluetooth in our cars, but that's a fair tradeoff in order to get our savings built up and our kids' college funds bulked up.  So many people, though, can't do with sacrifice.  The new PS4 beckons, and so they buy it, even though that's all they had in their account.
 
2014-04-08 11:57:06 AM  

freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.


You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011
 
2014-04-08 11:57:34 AM  
"Will they eat cake with the $2,000?"

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2014-04-08 11:57:50 AM  
Shouldn't have gotten that BA in Poetry then


/Engineer
//3 year out of school, make more than is reasonable
///saving+investing it
////engunears r gud at maff
 
2014-04-08 11:57:53 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011


You're not good at reading.
 
2014-04-08 11:58:09 AM  
E5bie:  
 

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on (minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) ,  

To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn' ...



What does healthcare have to do with Social security.   Healthcare is a very complicated issue.

The item being discussed was saving for retirement.

Pointing out that the example was double what the average income was does not have any effect.
Simply divide the result by two.
 with Social Security, your kids get half of zero.

You still get 3x as much and retire 10 years sooner.
 
2014-04-08 11:59:18 AM  
Do they mean 4 in 10 adults of working age without mental or physical disability?

Because there are a ton of children out there who don't have $2k.  Retards too. And people in prison.

So that number is either disappointingly high or totally understandable.
 
2014-04-08 12:01:01 PM  

Lawnchair: SlothB77: doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.

The car?  Sure.  That'd be the #1 asset for millions of Americans.  Of course, a lot couldn't readily sell it for much more than they have on the note.

The flat-screen TV?  The 40-50" TVs the middle-class have are $350 or so brand new at Best Buy.  They might get $150 on Craigslist
The couch?  Either they got it used or they're still paying it off.  In any event, dozens of couches are $125 or less on Craigslist in my town.  Hell, a not insignificant number are free.
Bike?  Again, Walmart/Target sell a lot more of them than proper bike shops.  And Walmart/Target bikes ain't worth poop.  $50 at most.  If they did buy a semi-quality Specialized or Trek... $100-150 used.

So, car, yes, that would be the "thing they could sell".  All the other trinkets?  Are pretty much rounding errors in terms of realizable value.


Kids.  They can sell the kids.
 
2014-04-08 12:01:01 PM  

Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick about this, because I know I have been very lucky in life to this point. And whatever success I have managed to enjoy has been only partially attributable to my own efforts, attitudes and commitments.

But still...it needs to be said.

The only reason I spend a couple of hours each day making snarky comments on internet discussion boards is because I can afford to. And if I couldn't, then I wouldn't.


But you are aware that there are many out here on Fark who are not in your position. Some are under-employed some are unemployed (I even suspect some are paid shills but I am not sure how much that shait pays) the point of the article is not that Mr Fabulous is doing well it is that many are not. You seemed to think it was about you.
 
2014-04-08 12:02:51 PM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.

Yes. This is totally the majority of all people.

Keep farking that chicken.


So, lest see.  I said "Some people"
and your turned that into "the majority of all people"

Do you always alter someone's argument and defeat it and claim victory?
 
2014-04-08 12:03:29 PM  
I could pull a couple grand off, but I doubt I could do it twice.

Back when silver was $50 an ounce, I made a habit of taking twenty bucks on payday and getting a couple rolls of half dollar coins to dig through for the silver ones. At that point, a silver half was worth about $20 just in melt value. A roll could bring about $400 for $10 in expenses.

That pulled a couple grand at a time when we really needed the money.

Problem is, the silver halves are basically tapped out. I still do this on payday, but I get maybe 1 out of 5 or 6 rolls. It's pure profit, but nowhere near where it was.

If I liquidated the coin collection I've built since I was a kid, I could probably pull about another five or six grand, but again, that's a one-time draw.
 
2014-04-08 12:03:55 PM  

freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000,


Well you are wrong, unless you're trying to fudge numbers. Even without the kids, you've got two adults on $50k per year. It's doable, but only if plan on working until you die or never, ever having any fun.
 
2014-04-08 12:04:38 PM  
ecx.images-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2014-04-08 12:04:57 PM  

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


I forget that old people still think a used flat screen is worth more than $200 after a few years.
 
2014-04-08 12:06:47 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: For most people on the lower to lower middle class spectrum, money is a bit of an abstraction, and they develop the habit of easy in, easy out. I was like that when I was a teen (I grew up relatively poor), and it was only in my mid 20s that I started to save up. The kids have 529s with another ten years to go before they need them, we had a sizable down payment on the house, and we have few other big bills. We paid off our cars early, and, yeah, they're older (my wife's car turned 12, mine 7), but they still have zero maintenance attached to them. No, we may not have thermometers and Bluetooth in our cars, but that's a fair tradeoff in order to get our savings built up and our kids' college funds bulked up. So many people, though, can't do with sacrifice. The new PS4 beckons, and so they buy it, even though that's all they had in their account.


Do you mean people are supposed to sacrifice a little in order to save up and have enough money in order to live month to  month?

How can that be? They are entitled to those video games and eating at Macdonalds every day
 
2014-04-08 12:06:54 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: doglover: Nutsac_Jim: The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.

Yes. This is totally the majority of all people.

Keep farking that chicken.

So, lest see.  I said "Some people"
and your turned that into "the majority of all people"

Do you always alter someone's argument and defeat it and claim victory?


You haven't given an argument. You've posted some drivel on an internet forum.

Actually develop an argument, toss your hat in the ring, and maybe I'll vote for ya.
 
2014-04-08 12:07:40 PM  

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.


You're obviously not poor.

A poor person has a car that they bought for less than $1000, a couch that was free or from a thrift store, and a TV they got at Walmart or online for a couple hundred dollars. Chances are that most of their non-essential appliances are in the same boat.
 
2014-04-08 12:08:27 PM  
Aren't we all 17 Trillion in debt?
 
2014-04-08 12:08:38 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.

You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011


I'm not going to be mean to you about your reading comprehension, but if you read the sentence that came immediately after that you would realize that...

Median household income (all households) is NOT THE SAME THING as median family income (all households with children), nor is median family income the same thing as median family income with two parents and two (or three) children, the group doglover was trying to apply that number to.

Averaging in the incomes of people who are not trying to raise families (like non-working students and retirees on fixed incomes) to bring the number down then yelling "how is anybody supposed to raise a family on that?!" is fundamentally dishonest, though I doubt doglover was doing it on purpose.
 
2014-04-08 12:09:03 PM  
media-cdn.tripadvisor.comView Full Size


They don't have shiat to take to the pawn store?  Don't have a car to use for a title loan?  Can't take a cash advance on a credit card?  Don't have a single relative who can give them a loan?

I was paycheck to paycheck for most of my life and I don't think there was a point in my life between 21 and 39 when I didn't have an outstanding debt of some kind (credit card, car loan, etc.) but I could come up with a couple grand within a business day one way or another.  Cash advance, call grandpa, call dad, sell some stuff, get a title loan on the car, etc.  And that's just assuming I stuck to legitimate sources of money.  If it was really life or death, I'd rob the hell out of something or someone.
 
2014-04-08 12:11:35 PM  

Rapmaster2000: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

I forget that old people still think a used flat screen is worth more than $200 after a few years.


I paid something like $600 for my main TV. I bought it six and a half years ago. I doubt I could get more than $100 for it on Craigslist today considering that similar new TVs today easily run under $300.
 
2014-04-08 12:12:35 PM  

jtown: [media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

They don't have shiat to take to the pawn store?  Don't have a car to use for a title loan?  Can't take a cash advance on a credit card?  Don't have a single relative who can give them a loan?

I was paycheck to paycheck for most of my life and I don't think there was a point in my life between 21 and 39 when I didn't have an outstanding debt of some kind (credit card, car loan, etc.) but I could come up with a couple grand within a business day one way or another.  Cash advance, call grandpa, call dad, sell some stuff, get a title loan on the car, etc.  And that's just assuming I stuck to legitimate sources of money.  If it was really life or death, I'd rob the hell out of something or someone.


Some of us don't have any rich relatives.  Some day I hope to be the pseudo-rich uncle.
 
2014-04-08 12:13:58 PM  

monoski: Mr_Fabulous: I really hate to sound like a complete dick about this, because I know I have been very lucky in life to this point. And whatever success I have managed to enjoy has been only partially attributable to my own efforts, attitudes and commitments.

But still...it needs to be said.

The only reason I spend a couple of hours each day making snarky comments on internet discussion boards is because I can afford to. And if I couldn't, then I wouldn't.

But you are aware that there are many out here on Fark who are not in your position. Some are under-employed some are unemployed (I even suspect some are paid shills but I am not sure how much that shait pays) the point of the article is not that Mr Fabulous is doing well it is that many are not. You seemed to think it was about you.



I believe you missed my point entirely.
 
2014-04-08 12:14:00 PM  

Fubini: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

You're obviously not poor.

A poor person has a car that they bought for less than $1000, a couch that was free or from a thrift store, and a TV they got at Walmart or online for a couple hundred dollars. Chances are that most of their non-essential appliances are in the same boat.


But it's only $50 a month for satellite.  you can afford that easy.....

farm5.staticflickr.comView Full Size
 
2014-04-08 12:14:04 PM  
I couldn't come up with 1/10th of that if my life depended on it, lol.

Oy vey.

SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


Take it from someone who did precisely what you're talking about a couple of years ago to get over that "emergency hump"- your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

After I lost my job we lived off of savings and my wife's earnings while I looked for more work.  That work never came, and so when the money ran out and things like food and rent were no longer feasible the car was the fist thing to go.  Figured we could walk or bus wherever we needed to travel.  Had bought it from a friend for about a grand a few years earlier, managed to sell it for around $600.  That bought us about a month of rent and painful feet.  At the end of that time we still hadn't made any progress and said, "fark it- everything must go" and had a garage sale.  Sold almost every single thing we owned.  Every wedding present, every nice thing we've ever bought for ourselves or each other, every tool, every device, every appliance.  Came out with about $300.  Not enough to make rent (and we'd already been skipping meals for a while by that time) but enough to get us to her parent's place in a shiatty jobless town in New Mexico.  shiat sort of got worse from there.

But I can't tell you how much simpler maintenance of your life gets when all you own is a change of clothes and a mattress.  So, you know, tiny victories.

I'm beginning to feel like the tatsuma of poverty threads.
 
2014-04-08 12:14:58 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest
it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.


This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.
 
2014-04-08 12:15:20 PM  

freewill: JusticeandIndependence: freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000, although it's been a while and I may have misremembered.

You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011

I'm not going to be mean to you about your reading comprehension, but if you read the sentence that came immediately after that you would realize that...

Median household income (all households) is NOT THE SAME THING as median family income (all households with children), nor is median family income the same thing as median family income with two parents and two (or three) children, the group doglover was trying to apply that number to.

Averaging in the incomes of people who are not trying to raise families (like non-working students and retirees on fixed incomes) to bring the number down then yelling "how is anybody supposed to raise a family on that?!" is fundamentally dishonest, though I doubt doglover was doing it on purpose.


Yep, I did read too fast.  No problem.
 
2014-04-08 12:15:54 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: E5bie:  
 

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on (minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) ,  

To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn' ...


What does healthcare have to do with Social security.   Healthcare is a very complicated issue.

The item being discussed was saving for retirement.

Pointing out that the example was double what the average income was does not have any effect.
Simply divide the result by two.
 with Social Security, your kids get half of zero.

You still get 3x as much and retire 10 years sooner.


Not that it's a huge amount or anyting, but kids do get SS survivor benefits if they're parents die.  It helped good ol' Paul Ryan paid for college, donchaknow.
 
2014-04-08 12:15:58 PM  

MugzyBrown: JusticeandIndependence: You did.

 median household income fell slightly to  $51,017 a year in 2012, down from  $51,100 in 2011

You're not good at reading.


My mistake, carry on.
 
2014-04-08 12:17:39 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Lawnchair: SlothB77: doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.

The car?  Sure.  That'd be the #1 asset for millions of Americans.  Of course, a lot couldn't readily sell it for much more than they have on the note.

The flat-screen TV?  The 40-50" TVs the middle-class have are $350 or so brand new at Best Buy.  They might get $150 on Craigslist
The couch?  Either they got it used or they're still paying it off.  In any event, dozens of couches are $125 or less on Craigslist in my town.  Hell, a not insignificant number are free.
Bike?  Again, Walmart/Target sell a lot more of them than proper bike shops.  And Walmart/Target bikes ain't worth poop.  $50 at most.  If they did buy a semi-quality Specialized or Trek... $100-150 used.

So, car, yes, that would be the "thing they could sell".  All the other trinkets?  Are pretty much rounding errors in terms of realizable value.

Kids.  They can sell the kids.


creatingafamily.orgView Full Size
 
2014-04-08 12:20:16 PM  

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.


You being the one who just proposed a plan that would have moved up the insolvency date of Social Security to later this year is what makes that funny.
 
2014-04-08 12:20:54 PM  

radarlove:  Take it from someone who did precisely what you're talking about a couple of years ago to get over that "emergency hump"- your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

Especially when you're highly motivated to sell now rather than hold out for a better price.

radarlove: Not enough to make rent (and we'd already been skipping meals for a while by that time)


Did you consider food stamps/unemployment/welfare/etc?  I know it's a giant blow to the ego but that really helps weather the emergency hump.  I've been a few months away from where you ended up, fortunately we did find jobs but I had my application in and a meeting all set up with the welfare office.  The funny thing is, with food stamps, my monthly food budget would have gone UP.  Mmmm Ramen Noodles!

radarlove: After I lost my job we lived off of savings and my wife's earnings


Money is supposedly the #1 reason people fight and divorce.  If you guys made it through that, you should be set.
 
2014-04-08 12:21:26 PM  

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.


Nah. If this was the case, government would not limit 401k amounts per year.


Everyone knows an individual can get much more out of their money. SS was never designed to give a cushy retirement for 25 years. What was the average lifetime when it was enacted, 65?
 
2014-04-08 12:21:54 PM  

shirtsbyeric: Aren't we all 17 Trillion in debt?


I am not, just a mortgage. No credit cards, auto or student loans.
 
2014-04-08 12:22:32 PM  

doglover: freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000,

Well you are wrong, unless you're trying to fudge numbers. Even without the kids, you've got two adults on $50k per year. It's doable, but only if plan on working until you die or never, ever having any fun.


Let's get some actual facts on the situation (if it will link anyway).   The median household income for "married couple families" by Census figures is in fact $77,500.  That said, slightly under half of US 'households' fall into that category (there's also non-'household' people, like dorms and jails).
 
2014-04-08 12:24:23 PM  
Does Fark ever have incest threads? Just asking.
 
2014-04-08 12:24:28 PM  

doglover: freewill: I believe the median family income with two working parents and two children is around $75,000,

Well you are wrong, unless you're trying to fudge numbers. Even without the kids, you've got two adults on $50k per year. It's doable, but only if plan on working until you die or never, ever having any fun.


I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick, but you're still misusing these numbers in a way that does not allow for a useful discussion. The "median household income" includes large numbers of households containing only non-working students and elderly. (I believe non-working elderly make up 14% of all households.) That's going to completely wreck the data.

Even in 2005, when the median household income was about $46,000, the Census reported dual-earner households to have a median income of $67,000. That's a huge difference.  I can't find the charts again, but I am pretty confident that the median was still higher for couples with two children, presumably because having two children tends to screen out very young couples who haven't started their families yet and also don't have much earning power due to a lack of professional experience.

OH HEY: I just found it for 2012.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/

I'm not going to run the national average on that spreadsheet, but even in Kentucky, the median household income for a 4-person family (which may or may not include two working parents) is nearly $68,000. In neighboring Illinois, perhaps a more representative state, it's over $80,000.
 
2014-04-08 12:25:39 PM  
Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!
 
2014-04-08 12:25:59 PM  
I think most Americans (at least 4 out of 10) don't know how to properly classify a financial emergency.
 
2014-04-08 12:26:01 PM  

BMFPitt: lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

This is where you farked up.  The country is full of idiots.  If you gave them their 12.5% back, they would not invest it, they would spend it.  Then they'd hit an age/health status where they could no longer work and be farked.

I agree with you, people CAN invest and plan and do better than the government programs.  But they don't and it's immoral to let people die/starve/freeze in old age merely because they're stupid.

You being the one who just proposed a plan that would have moved up the insolvency date of Social Security to later this year is what makes that funny.


What the fark are you talking about?  That's not even possible.  We just completely stop collecting Social Security money and we wouldn't reach insolvency for 3+ years.
 
2014-04-08 12:28:17 PM  
4 in 10 is only about 15% so that's not so bad.
 
2014-04-08 12:29:59 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: But it's only $50 a month for satellite.  you can afford that easy.....


A lot of poor rural people have satellite service because it's the only way to get TV or internet (especially since the digital TV switch). By the way, those dishes are practically worthless in the resale market, think $10-$50 worthless.

As others have pointed out, TV and internet service are pretty much non-negotiable in this day and age. I'd sooner get rid of my car than I would get rid of my internet service.
 
2014-04-08 12:30:24 PM  
Lawnchair:That said, slightly under half of US 'households' fall into that category (there's also non-'household' people, like dorms and jails).

I think the link I provided above is more useful for this reason.

"Median 4-person Families" is going to include 4-person families where there is only one parent with three children or where there are two parents, neither of whom work. It's the most suitable representation I can think of for what real people are trying to raise 2.5 children on in America, in the absence of a specific survey of dual-income 2-3 child households.

Interestingly, incomes seem to drop back off in 5-person families and still further in 6-person families. Idiocracy, or something.
 
2014-04-08 12:31:10 PM  
radarlove:
Take it from someone who did precisely what you're talking about a couple of years ago to get over that "emergency hump"- your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

Truth.

I drastically slimmed down my life a while back.  Not out of monetary necessity, but out of desire to simplify my life.  When all was said and done, what I was able to sell paid for the gas, truck, and postage required to get rid of it all.  I might have made $100.

I could have potentially made maybe $500 total.  And that would be with me investing inordinate amounts of time finding the right buyer for everything.
 
2014-04-08 12:31:23 PM  
So 4 in 10 Americans have no TV, video game console, tablet, smart phone, car?

I'd assume that is because 4 in 10 Americans are also under the age of 20.
 
2014-04-08 12:33:09 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.


Now recompute for $20k per year of income, not $100k.  It's the min wagers that SS is for, not above average incomes.  But you knew that already, and think the poor should starve to death once they're done serving their masters.

Also, your math is wrong - you won't get 12.5%.  You'll get 6.25%.  That guy paying you gets to keep the other 6.25%, and has no reason to give it to you.
 
2014-04-08 12:34:28 PM  

Serious Black: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?


Liberals have assured me that cities are the only acceptable places to live and that cities have adequate public transportation. Also you can walk anywhere or take a taxi.
 
2014-04-08 12:34:46 PM  

Delawheredad: Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!


I hear your pain... one of the things I hope that come out of same sex marriages is that when they start getting divorces they are just as vocal about the inequities in the divorce laws as they were in the marriage laws.

Being the bread winner in a marriage ends up making you a slave in divorce... the only reason why I am not paying alimony now is that I saved up all her credit card debt, by just paying the minimum payments, that she amassed in my name after she left (almost 40k) and would only agree to alimony if she was responsible for the debt... she said it would bankrupt her, so I ate it and in return I never have to pay her another dime.
 
2014-04-08 12:35:40 PM  

Delawheredad: Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!


Same boat.  Ex gets over half of my net income.   I'm still paying off all the communal debt.  I have a tiny house that I
  rent that I can only afford because I'm living in an economically-depressed town.

Still have the CC and L.O.C. debt to pay off--it'll be a couple of years still.
 
2014-04-08 12:37:04 PM  

Stibium: $45 a month for unlimited everything is hardly ridiculous.


You do know that people are able to live without any cell phone at all right?

$45 a month for a year is $540. I cheap burner phone with pay as you go would save you most of that money.

It's fine if you want a smart phone and data plan, but if you have one you can't cry poverty. At best you can cry "poor life choices"
 
2014-04-08 12:37:18 PM  

SpectroBoy: Wasilla Hillbilly: SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.

Although I don't have any of the things mentioned in your hint, I have to admit that both A and B apply to me and yes, B is the main factor in A. My only 'luxury' is my 3mb DSL connection, which I think would actually end up costing me more if I didn't have it.


I purposely didn't list an internet connection. Having internet can save people a tons of money shopping and also helps with finding a job (or doing a job). I sort of consider internet a staple at this point. It's hard to be a part of society without it.


You can use the internet for free in most  libraries
 
2014-04-08 12:39:02 PM  

Thunderpipes: Those people don't need to come up with $2,000. Government will do it for them by taking from me.


You poor baby.

Bless your heart.
 
2014-04-08 12:39:04 PM  
SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.
but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.


Rapmaster2000: I forget that old people still think a used flat screen is worth more than $200 after a few years.


And that there is somebody with cash just waiting to buy your used stuff at a price you need.
And then at what point is it that you know you are just giving shiat away?
 
2014-04-08 12:39:43 PM  
*sigh*

That's not even remotely surprising. But, hey, the CEO needs that second boat.
 
2014-04-08 12:41:04 PM  

Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]


People are used to doing things in tens. Ten fingers, ten toes, ten numbers in the decimal system. That is why they use the 4 in 10, even if it is a bad fraction to use.
 
2014-04-08 12:42:07 PM  

TheWhoppah: Failure to raise $2000 for a down payment on an attorney causes students and young adults to plead guilty in cases where they really shouldn't.  Over their lifetime this simple mistake will lower their lifetime earning potential by several hundred thousand dollars.  The mistake is magnified when you consider that they probably COULD have sold their car or borrowed the $2000 from GrandMa if they were not embarrassed to admit they got busted with drugs or for petty theft.


I'm poor because I'm not buying enough lottery tickets. Statistically, it's true.

I'm poor because I'm not beating the wrap often enough. Statistically, it's true.

I'm poor because I make kids I can't feed, clothe or care for, buy cable TV and other stuff that I don't need, oh, refuse to work one job let alone two and I didn't take advantage of the free high school education that my government gave me.
 
2014-04-08 12:42:34 PM  

Fubini: JusticeandIndependence: But it's only $50 a month for satellite.  you can afford that easy.....

A lot of poor rural people have satellite service because it's the only way to get TV or internet (especially since the digital TV switch). By the way, those dishes are practically worthless in the resale market, think $10-$50 worthless.

As others have pointed out, TV and internet service are pretty much non-negotiable in this day and age. I'd sooner get rid of my car than I would get rid of my internet service.


You can use the internet for free in most  libraries
 
2014-04-08 12:42:37 PM  

Thunderpipes: Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: More than one-third of workers (36 percent) have only $1,000 saved for their later years

I really wish we could have a (D) Medicare / Social Security and a (R) one.  If you vote (R) consistently, then upon retirement, you get the (R) plan.  And yes, that means all along the way you get to pay whatever the lower tax rate associated would be.  We'll see how well that plan works out for you.

I'll take a stab at it.

Instead of sapping you for 12.5% and the promise of giving you some back later, you
keep your 12.5% and invest it in some nice trustworth S&P500 IRA.

So you are not a dumbass, and you make 100k just for giggles and it is near the cap for SS anyway.
using this tea part website
https://www.investor.gov/tools/calculators/compound-interest-calcula to r#.U0QMQPldXrQ

we assume historical average of 8% in the market.  None of that 25% that obama gives us.
You now have
$1,427,368.46   for retirement after 30 years.

30 years, mind you, not working until you are 70

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on , assuming you back off the stock market and move to bonds and dividend stocks, and your money is only making 4%, and you don't take some of that and buy income generating rental properties. etc.

Or.. you can take the $1700 a month that Social security will give you.


Oh yeah, if you die when you are 61, on the R plan, your kids get all your money.  They can use it to pay off their student loans, which I hear that people have a hard time paying nowadays.  Or they can buy a decent small house and one of those small income generating rental properties.

But if you signed up for the D plan, you get $1700/mo.   And if you die at 61,
YOUR KIDS GET DICK.

Don't post numbers in a liberal forum, drives them nuts. Government knows best. People should not be allowed to take care of themselves, it is not fair.


Oh for Christ's sake, he used $100K as his example.  How many of the 4 out of 10 do you think are even close to that?  In order to make money in the market you have to have money to invest in the market in the first place.
 
2014-04-08 12:43:24 PM  

Thunderpipes: Everyone knows an individual can get much more out of their money. SS was never designed to give a cushy retirement for 25 years. What was the average lifetime when it was enacted, 65?


You miss the point. Social Security is not just an investment vehicle. It is also an insurance plan that spreads risk. That lowers your yield, true, but it also lowers your risk.

As an individual your investment choices could leave you unable to support yourself. In the SS pool you are guaranteed the income later.

It's not fair or reasonable to compare returns that are "at risk" to a sure thing.
 
2014-04-08 12:43:33 PM  
At least this thread delivered on the huge pile of self-righteous bastards who have never had a bad thing happen to them, to tell us all how we *should* have been handling our finances since we were 5.

\Thanks, FARK
 
2014-04-08 12:45:23 PM  

SpectroBoy: If you can't scrape together $2K with a gun to your head one of two things is true.

A) You are truly very poor

B) You prioritize badly.

Hint: If you have cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix, or recent nice clothes then B is probably where you are at.


If you think cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix are major sources of financial drain, A is probably where you are at.
 
2014-04-08 12:45:33 PM  
Hope my bookie doesn't read this
 
2014-04-08 12:45:36 PM  

Fubini: As others have pointed out, TV and internet service are pretty much non-negotiable in this day and age.


I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

TV IS NOT NECESSARY

IT"S ENTERTAINMENT


Wanting something does NOT make it non-negotiable. It just makes you someone who makes bad choices.
 
2014-04-08 12:45:50 PM  

doglover: Nutsac_Jim: doglover: Nutsac_Jim: The reason for this is that some people, not wanting to work, will just find a woman with a welfare-paid apartment and hang out.

Yes. This is totally the majority of all people.

Keep farking that chicken.

So, lest see.  I said "Some people"
and your turned that into "the majority of all people"

Do you always alter someone's argument and defeat it and claim victory?

You haven't given an argument. You've posted some drivel on an internet forum.

Actually develop an argument, toss your hat in the ring, and maybe I'll vote for ya.


Strawman.. ad hominem..  Care for any more fallacies?

Third time is the charm......
 
2014-04-08 12:47:15 PM  

Bullseyed: Liberals have assured me that cities are the only acceptable places to live and that cities have adequate public transportation. Also you can walk anywhere or take a taxi.


I think the point is that not everybody can afford to live out in the country.

And anything is walking distance if you have the time.
 
2014-04-08 12:48:29 PM  

The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries


That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.
 
2014-04-08 12:49:31 PM  

impaler: If you think cableTV, or a smart phone, or Netflix are major sources of financial drain, A is probably where you are at.


The little things add up.

If you have no financial buffer for emergencies then even small luxuries are a bad life choice.
 
2014-04-08 12:51:39 PM  
Jokes aside, that's pretty damn shocking. For a couple of years after I graduated I carried some credit card debt until I wised the hell up. Since then I've had savings, both sheltered and not. I can't conceive of not being able to come up with $2k if needed.
 
2014-04-08 12:52:18 PM  

Bullseyed: Serious Black: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

So people should sell their primary source of transportation when they have an emergency? Wouldn't that impede them from making more money in the future and, thus, prolong the emergency?

Liberals have assured me that cities are the only acceptable places to live and that cities have adequate public transportation. Also you can walk anywhere or take a taxi.


Look, there's a real problem with selling out of your car.  And that is in employment.

On the lower hourly-wage end of life, that is actually a deal-breaker question.  "Do you have a working car?"  No car, no job. Period. This is a little better in urban areas.  But, and I'm not exaggerating this at all, in my childhood hometown you will not get a job at McDonald's or Casey's General Store without owning a car.  This is dumb as all hell.  If you live in that town, it would be physically impossible to be two miles from those establishments.  Flat as a pancake Kansas we're talking about.  Good weather for pedaling most of the time, but most people can walk two miles in weather that stops cars dead. A car should be absolutely unnecessary in that situation, right?  And, yet... no car, no job.
 
2014-04-08 12:52:55 PM  

Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.


Really?

If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)

This is not hard to comprehend.
 
2014-04-08 12:55:21 PM  

The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.


The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.


We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.
 
2014-04-08 12:57:14 PM  

Dimensio: SlothB77: I doubt that.  4 in 10 americans don't have $2000 worth of stuff they can sell if their lives depended on it?  If you own a flat screen tv, a couch and a bike or a car, you are getting pretty close to that number.  throw in a gun, computer and cell phone or other random appliances and you can get there.

but yeah, after you sell all that stuff, you don't have much left.

In fact, the firearm may be the most effective tool for obtaining $2000 in a short time period.


That's kind of a point, there - if my LIFE depends on getting $2000, I'm getting it - and I don't care how.
Actually, from society's point of view, it would probably be a good idea to avoid scenarios where people are put in that position.
 
2014-04-08 12:57:26 PM  

SpectroBoy: I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.

TV IS NOT NECESSARY

IT"S ENTERTAINMENT

Wanting something does NOT make it non-negotiable. It just makes you someone who makes bad choices.


TV and the internet both provide general news and emergency alert information. A cell phone or weather radio provide can provide emergency alerts, but can't provide further information or general news, and generally don't cover non-weather emergencies.

That certainly justifies having a TV set, and if you don't get over-the-air programming, it justifies an expenditure on cable TV or internet service.

It's also true that some kind of entertainment is warranted, even for the poorest of the poor. If you get over-the-air TV, or live next to a library or something, then that's great, but not everyone has access to that.
 
2014-04-08 12:57:38 PM  

Bullseyed: So 4 in 10 Americans have no TV, video game console, tablet, smart phone, car?


I don't think my 8 year old Vizio, half-broken Wii, tablet that cost $150 new, 3 year old phone, and car nearing a quarter million miles are worth as much as you they are.

Why do old people think everything with an LCD screen can be sold for decent money?

/ Could get $2000 together in about 20 minutes. Just not from selling my nearly worthless shiat.
 
2014-04-08 12:58:13 PM  
limeyfellow:

People are used to doing things in tens. Ten fingers, ten toes, ten numbers in the decimal system. That is why they use the 4 in 10, even if it is a bad fraction to use.

*looks at both hands*

*looks at one hand*

Whoa. I could have figured out 2 out of 5 even easier.

/ Have you ever thought about your hands, man?
 
2014-04-08 12:58:20 PM  

MadHatter500: Now recompute for $20k per year of income, not $100k.  It's the min wagers that SS is for, not above average incomes.  But you knew that already, and think the poor should starve to death once they're done serving their masters.

Also, your math is wrong - you won't get 12.5%.  You'll get 6.25%.  That guy paying you gets to keep the other 6.25%, and has no reason to give it to you.



If you want to use 20k, fine.  Multiple everything by 1/5.

You still steal all the social security from poor people when they die at 61.  But you knew that, didn't you.

You get 12.5%, if you are self employed and pay the actual social security tax.


If you are a 6.25% er, then you might not get it.  Odds are you will, or Spacely's Sprockets will get all of Cogswell's Cogs' good employees, because Spacely gave the 6.25% to the employees.
 
2014-04-08 01:00:42 PM  
Is the statistic based on who doesn't have access to two thousand dollars cash? Because that would be me.

Or does it include people who can't get $2000 in a very short period of time - Not me, I have good credit and could get a short term loan from the bank.
 
2014-04-08 01:00:56 PM  

Fubini: TV and the internet both provide general news and emergency alert information. A cell phone or weather radio provide can provide emergency alerts, but can't provide further information or general news, and generally don't cover non-weather emergencies.


Many many people struggling to get by are looking for more/better jobs so they can pay for shiat.  To do that, you have to apply for jobs.  The main method for applying for jobs these days is the internet.  When an employer is interested in your application/resumé they have to contact you to set up either a phone interview or an in person interview.  How are they going to contact someone who doesn't have internet or phone?

Anyone who doesn't think internet/phone are a necessity these days has never searched for a job.
 
2014-04-08 01:03:52 PM  

The Missing Link: If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)


Food, water, shelter are biological necessities. Economic necessity is a secure source of income and social necessity is a reasonable way to understand and interact with the world. Lots of jobs effectively require an internet connection at home, either to apply or to have, and lots of companies and agencies primarily interact with customers through the internet these days.

At the very least, you're at a huge disadvantage if you don't have a reliable internet connection. Think about a person who has to use paper-bound yellow pages to look up phone numbers, call offices, wait to talk to someone in person, etc. That worked great twenty years ago, but the world just isn't organized that way anymore.
 
2014-04-08 01:04:10 PM  

MadHatter500: Now recompute for $20k per year of income, not $100k.  It's the min wagers that SS is for, not above average incomes.



282,754.89   or $943 a month.

vs

$669.00/mo  from Social security.


♫  Just come on back if you ever wanna try again ♫
 
2014-04-08 01:05:20 PM  
I'm confused... are we advocating the murder of the financial top or are we having savings pissing contests?  Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of both.

OH! Let's compare the cost of our plans for offing CEOs!

I say the most cost-effective is going to be black powder explosives.  You can get the materials cheap and do a lot of damage.  I'm assuming urban deployment.
 
2014-04-08 01:05:24 PM  
Either I am relatively well-off, or I am even more successful at being a tightwad cheapskate than I had realised.

/No cable TV.
//No Netflix.
 
2014-04-08 01:06:24 PM  

Delawheredad: Before my divorce i had access to that kind of money readily. Since my divorce I have come perilously close to homeless several times. I have a good job with great benefits but i was so taken to the cleaners by my ex wife that my credit union at work turned me down for a measly $3,000 loan!

I once owned a five bedroom house now i live in a rented room in some other guy's house!

DIVORCE SUCKS!


Not if done properly.

/much better off now even paing 1k a month in child support
//she shoulda lawyered up.
 
2014-04-08 01:06:34 PM  

SpectroBoy: TV IS NOT NECESSARY

IT"S ENTERTAINMENT


Wanting something does NOT make it non-negotiable. It just makes you someone who makes bad choices.


Humans are creatures that NEED to be entertained, and as far as cost-effective entertainment goes, TV is about the highest bang for the buck.

If you think people's route to financial prosperity is anyway affected by owning a TV, you suck at math.
 
2014-04-08 01:07:44 PM  

Geoff Peterson: The Muthaship: And 8 out of 24 can't reduce a fraction.

4 in 10 sounds worse than 2 in 5, I guess, but to me 2 in 5 sounds worse.

[the more you know.jpg]


Most journalists are so because they sucked at everything else.  This writer may not realize 2/5 and 4/10 are the same thing. If you want to blow his mind, tell him that is 40%.
 
2014-04-08 01:09:54 PM  
If I can pump enough caps in the heads of potential Walmart customers, I can probably scrape up 2K.
 
2014-04-08 01:10:21 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Bullseyed: So 4 in 10 Americans have no TV, video game console, tablet, smart phone, car?

I don't think my 8 year old Vizio, half-broken Wii, tablet that cost $150 new, 3 year old phone, and car nearing a quarter million miles are worth as much as you they are.

Why do old people think everything with an LCD screen can be sold for decent money?

/ Could get $2000 together in about 20 minutes. Just not from selling my nearly worthless shiat.


There's probably at least that much in Lovey's bra.
 
2014-04-08 01:13:40 PM  

Dimensio: Either I am relatively well-off, or I am even more successful at being a tightwad cheapskate than I had realised.

/No cable TV.
//No Netflix.


but still found $5 a month to give to Drew for his beer budget
 
2014-04-08 01:13:47 PM  

Jument: Jokes aside, that's pretty damn shocking. For a couple of years after I graduated I carried some credit card debt until I wised the hell up. Since then I've had savings, both sheltered and not. I can't conceive of not being able to come up with $2k if needed.


My wife worried about this too.  Then one day she figured the solution was to marry a guy and transfer
the worrying about from where the $2k over to some me.

Problem solved.
 
2014-04-08 01:15:08 PM  

lennavan: Especially when you're highly motivated to sell now rather than hold out for a better price.


Bingo.  Can't tell you how often we wished we'd just had more time to sell that stuff.  But landlords hold little respect for the nuances of successful negotiation.

lennavan: Did you consider food stamps/unemployment/welfare/etc? I know it's a giant blow to the ego but that really helps weather the emergency hump.


I've held off on doing that at great expense to my health.  I'm at the point now where I only eat once every two or three days and sometimes sleep even less.  I could describe a litany of symptoms that would rid the thread of the squeamish.

So why hold off?  Why not get on government assistance?

FARK-dot-motherfarking-com

I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register.  Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.  And that isn't something I ever want to be.  I loathe inflicting hardship or even mere inconvenience upon people.  That's just who I am.  I also have particularly low self-worth at this point, so statements that the poor are poor because of what shiatty failures of people they are resonate particularly strongly with me.

I'm trying to look past those voices lately.  I'm not in a location where there are people to assist me with any kind of governmental assistance but my primary focus right now needs to be mental healthcare.  As I'm sure you can infer at this point, a rough spell has taken its toll on an already unstable psychology, so progress on that needs to be made before any more can.  There's a center a couple of hours away that I've heard might offer indigent care, so I'm going to try to find a way to check them out to see if they can get me some help.

To the Farkers on the right-hand side of this thread, I am really, truly, genuinely sorry that I am going to have to do that.  It absolutely rends my heart to take from those who have not offered to give.  But I fear that the harm I may cause some of you by not going on some form of government assistance may be far greater than the harm I will surely inflict upon all of you if I do.

lennavan: Money is supposedly the #1 reason people fight and divorce. If you guys made it through that, you should be set.


I'm afraid this looks to be far from over.  The strain on the marriage is incredible.  Several times I've told myself and her that I'd leave her just to save her from the inevitable implosion, but she insists on staying.  Now I'm in freefall and she's still holding this whole thing together.  She's got to work just to keep us alive AND take care of this psychotic mess when she gets home.  And she's still around.  Says she ain't going nowhere and neither am I (though I don't know where the hell I'd go if we ever did split up).  She's an amazing woman and I'm acutely aware of how lucky I am.  =)
 
2014-04-08 01:21:00 PM  

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: If I can pump enough caps in the heads of potential Walmart customers, I can probably scrape up 2K.


you can't get cash for food stamps quickly....
 
2014-04-08 01:21:36 PM  
Well, if my numbers hit tonight, I'll have $2000. Otherwise yeah, I'm broke.
 
2014-04-08 01:22:02 PM  
I'm 27 and make 47000 a year. I can look at hitting the 65-70k mark in about a year unless shiat hits the fan nationwide. I have 0 student loan debt and one credit card with a limit of 1500 for emergencies.

Having a girlfriend sucks sometimes since money is always spent regardless of how small and low key we keep it. If she moves in with me at the end of the summer my mortgage payment gets cut in half and maybe I can get a new car.
 
2014-04-08 01:24:37 PM  

radarlove: I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register. Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.


No one on Fark talks like that. Go get help, man!
 
2014-04-08 01:25:20 PM  

The Singing Bush: Nutsac_Jim: E5bie:  
 

That gives you about $5000 a month to retire on (minus the full cost of your health care, a hellovalot) ,  

To each their own. I'm for the plan that doesn' ...


What does healthcare have to do with Social security.   Healthcare is a very complicated issue.

The item being discussed was saving for retirement.

Pointing out that the example was double what the average income was does not have any effect.
Simply divide the result by two.
 with Social Security, your kids get half of zero.

You still get 3x as much and retire 10 years sooner.

Not that it's a huge amount or anyting, but kids do get SS survivor benefits if they're parents die.  It helped good ol' Paul Ryan paid for college, donchaknow.


In hindsight, I'm sure glad I had them. Dad blew his brains out when I was 7 years old, I have a mentally disabled brother 4 years older. Mom blew through the federal employee death benefit (Army Corps of Engineers in `84) of $250K in just 2 and a half years.

We lived like trash on that benefit thanks to a nearly criminally stupid surviving parent. I'm glad it existed. I am convinced we would have spent time homeless without it.
 
2014-04-08 01:27:37 PM  

fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.


your baby step is probably too big for many right now as $1,500 all at once is a big hit to alot of people, i for example would have to split it over 3 months.
 
2014-04-08 01:30:44 PM  

radarlove: lennavan: Especially when you're highly motivated to sell now rather than hold out for a better price.

Bingo.  Can't tell you how often we wished we'd just had more time to sell that stuff.  But landlords hold little respect for the nuances of successful negotiation.

lennavan: Did you consider food stamps/unemployment/welfare/etc? I know it's a giant blow to the ego but that really helps weather the emergency hump.

I've held off on doing that at great expense to my health.  I'm at the point now where I only eat once every two or three days and sometimes sleep even less.  I could describe a litany of symptoms that would rid the thread of the squeamish.

So why hold off?  Why not get on government assistance?

FARK-dot-motherfarking-com

I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register.  Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.  And that isn't something I ever want to be.  I loathe inflicting hardship or even mere inconvenience upon people.  That's just who I am.  I also have particularly low self-worth at this point, so statements that the poor are poor because of what shiatty failures of people they are resonate particularly strongly with me.

I'm trying to look past those voices lately.  I'm not in a location where there are people to assist me with any kind of governmental assistance but my primary focus right now needs to be mental healthcare.  As I'm sure you can infer at this point, a rough spell has taken its toll on an already unstable psychology, so progress on that needs to be made before any more can.  There's a center a couple of hours away that I've heard might offer indigent care, so I'm going to try to find a way to check them out to see i ...


Dude if you need assistance, get it. No one is going to bemoan you for it.

The 'rights/conservative' view is there are a lot of people that need help, whether its medical, financial, etc and that they should get it. But there are also those that game the system so they don't have to do anything. That's why those on the right want those people kicked off assistance.

Give help to those that need it. Don't give help to those that don't help themselves. Big difference.
 
2014-04-08 01:32:20 PM  
Linux_Yes:  methinks

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2014-04-08 01:32:54 PM  
Good grief. If you are over 40 years old and don't have $2K on hand you have made some poor decisions.

I have two bicycles that are each worth way more than $2K if I had to liquidate something. I wouldn't though since I haven't wasted tens of thousands on kids and cigarettes.
 
2014-04-08 01:33:56 PM  

Dimensio: Either I am relatively well-off, or I am even more successful at being a tightwad cheapskate than I had realised.

/No cable TV.
//No Netflix.


More likely is that you just don't have a realistic conception of what it means to be poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

The median aged 25+ full-time worker with no college experience makes $31.5K per year. If they didn't finish high school that drops to $25K per year. Remember that those are medians, so half of all people in that category make less than that.

If you factor out retirees, about 45% of full time working adults between the ages of 25 and 64 make less than $25,000 per year.

About 20% of individual Americans make less than $10K per year.
 
2014-04-08 01:35:31 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: Smeggy Smurf: If I had $2k laying around I'd be $2k closer to being out of debt by tomorrow.  You don't save money when trying to get out of debt in a hurry.

This doesn't make any sense.  You don't just have "$2K lying around"  You set it aside and tell yourself it's off limits.

$85 dollars every two weeks for one year and you would have $2K "lying around"


Yeah, fark the electric company, water company etc.  Screw the grocery store too!  I dont know about you, but $85 a week is a lot of money just to park when you may have other bills to pay.
 
2014-04-08 01:37:07 PM  

doglover: radarlove: I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register. Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.

No one on Fark talks like that. Go get help, man!


Seriously. There's a support network out there for you. People who tell you you're worthless for taking public assistance in any form have been borrowing from family for years.

Love yourself and take some public money and rub it all over your body.

Just because you start doesn't mean you can't stop assistance. Hell, the government will stop it for you.

Additionally, there are charitable organizations like Sally's Army that may help you.
 
2014-04-08 01:37:12 PM  

The Missing Link: Really?

If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)

This is not hard to comprehend.


There are a few phrases I use as a barometer to determine if someone is capable of having an honest conversation.  This is one of them.
 
2014-04-08 01:37:14 PM  

Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.


If you live in the United States, you're almost guaranteed to have access to a library and internet.  There are more libraries here than McDonald's.  Some of the poorer reservation libraries I've found lack internet access, but it's pretty standard most other places.  So access to public internet is there, but it's also a tremendous pain in the ass.  You've got to find a library, get to a library, hope there's not a huge queue to use the machines, hope there are no time-sensitive emails from potential employers, search a dozen sites for job leads and check in with mom all before the next guy in line starts getting too antsy or before the librarian starts harping on you about time limits.  It's all doable but it sucks up a huge chunk of your time that you need to be spending hitting the pavement to follow up on the bullshiat leads you found online which almost never end up panning out.  Sort of ends up resulting in a big Catch-22.
 
2014-04-08 01:38:31 PM  

Tonto's Expanding Headband: Good grief. If you are over 40 years old and don't have $2K on hand you have made some poor decisions.

I have two bicycles that are each worth way more than $2K if I had to liquidate something. I wouldn't though since I haven't wasted tens of thousands on kids and cigarettes.


Im well over 40 and do not have 2K on hand.  I also do not have a couple of bikes worth that much money.  To me, thats a huge waste of cash.  Yes, Ive made some shiatty decisions and my situation is totally my fault, but I also do not make a lot vs. what I have going out.
 
2014-04-08 01:40:36 PM  

The Missing Link: If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity


Really?  What if you work from home and are required to have Internet access?

It would be nice if people who have enough money would stop telling people who don't what is and isn't a necessity.   Or at least try to picture yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while.
 
2014-04-08 01:42:53 PM  

WienerButt: I'm 27 and make 47000 a year. I can look at hitting the 65-70k mark in about a year unless shiat hits the fan nationwide. I have 0 student loan debt and one credit card with a limit of 1500 for emergencies.

Having a girlfriend sucks sometimes since money is always spent regardless of how small and low key we keep it. If she moves in with me at the end of the summer my mortgage payment gets cut in half and maybe I can get a new car.


LoL.
 
2014-04-08 01:43:19 PM  

radarlove: If you live in the United States, you're almost guaranteed to have access to a library and internet.


No, you are not.
 
2014-04-08 01:43:41 PM  

lennavan: The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.

The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.

We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.


Actually, this person sounds to me like they've spent time truly thinking about the subject. Many life-long middle class (and higher) folks I've met never think twice about a small luxury. In my own experience, I feel like those who do pinch all types of pennies have spent appreciable time being poor, or are an engineer =)

Be poor long enough and the decisions really do become that black and white easy. Think about how my generation's (GenX) grandparents behaved due to experiencing the Great Depression. Our parents (their kids) sure acted differently in an America of absolute abundance...
 
2014-04-08 01:44:06 PM  

grimlock1972: fireclown: [www.mamascritics.com image 850x625]
Baby step 1:  set up an emergancy fund of $1500.

The guy is occasionally kind of nutty, but the bones of his plan are pretty sound.

your baby step is probably too big for many right now as $1,500 all at once is a big hit to alot of people, i for example would have to split it over 3 months.


Then take three months.  Heck, take 4.  Then take the money that you were putting to the emergency fund, cut WAY the hell back on your WRITTEN budget and start digging into the rest of the debt.    When I finally decided to get my financial shiat in order (and it was a basket case), it took me a little over two years to clear out credit card debt, car loan, and some misc debt.  I didn't get into that hole overnight, and I didn't get OUT overnight.
 
2014-04-08 01:44:24 PM  

Fubini: TV and the internet both provide general news and emergency alert information. A cell phone or weather radio provide can provide emergency alerts, but can't provide further information or general news, and generally don't cover non-weather emergencies.

That certainly justifies having a TV set, and if you don't get over-the-air programming, it justifies an expenditure on cable TV or internet service.

It's also true that some kind of entertainment is warranted, even for the poorest of the poor. If you get over-the-air TV, or live next to a library or something, then that's great, but not everyone has access to that.



I do not believe "in home entertainment that costs money" is a necessity. Read a library book. Listen to the radio. Play cards. Whittle. People lived for thousands of years without electronic entertainment.

Radio also covers emergencies. I don;t believe for a minute  someone needs a smart phone and cable tv "just in case something happens".

Necessities are food, shelter, medical care, etc. Not cable TV.
 
2014-04-08 01:45:53 PM  

sigdiamond2000: I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.


if you have tons of different funds in your 401k, you are actually losing money to management fees.  You shouldn't have more then 2 or 3 different funds, or your gains are being eaten away.

// not so smart now, are you?
// fart
 
2014-04-08 01:47:15 PM  

radarlove: Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.

If you live in the United States, you're almost guaranteed to have access to a library and internet.  There are more libraries here than McDonald's.  Some of the poorer reservation libraries I've found lack internet access, but it's pretty standard most other places.  So access to public internet is there, but it's also a tremendous pain in the ass.  You've got to find a library, get to a library, hope there's not a huge queue to use the machines, hope there are no time-sensitive emails from potential employers, search a dozen sites for job leads and check in with mom all before the next guy in line starts getting too antsy or before the librarian starts harping on you about time limits.  It's all doable but it sucks up a huge chunk of your time that you need to be spending hitting the pavement to follow up on the bullshiat leads you found online which almost never end up panning out.  Sort of ends up resulting in a big Catch-22.


Huh. Turns out you're right.

Number of public libraries: 16,415
Number of McDonalds: 14,268

I agree with pretty much all of the caveats you've endorsed. It's a great safety net, but relying on the library for internet access is not a very good long-term strategy.
 
2014-04-08 01:47:23 PM  

impaler: Humans are creatures that NEED to be entertained, and as far as cost-effective entertainment goes, TV is about the highest bang for the buck.

If you think people's route to financial prosperity is anyway affected by owning a TV, you suck at math.



People somehow managed to survive through most of human history without television. Read a library book. Go for a walk. Listen to free radio. Play cards.

There is no way a monthly TV bill is a good idea if you are struggling to make ends meet. No how. No way. It is a luxury.
 
2014-04-08 01:48:40 PM  

radarlove: Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people and families to serve my own selfish needs and to cover up my own foolish mistakes.


Stop being stupid.  When you don't need it, you pay for the safety net.  When you do need it, you take full advantage of it and do the best you can to get back on your feet.  Then you pay back in.  It's the exact same thing as insurance -- not everyone needs it but no one feels like a leech when they want insurance to pay for stuff.

radarlove: I loathe inflicting hardship or even mere inconvenience upon people.


You're not.  Whether you decide to use it or not, everyone else is going to pay in the same amount.

radarlove: That's just who I am.


That's a cop out.  You aren't your thoughts, you are your actions.  Find yourself thinking whatever you wish but put in your application for the services.

radarlove: I'm not in a location where there are people to assist me with any kind of governmental assistance but my primary focus right now needs to be mental healthcare.


The underlying cause is no doubt your current financial situation.  Dude, just throw down an application.  Here, that application gets you nothing except an in person meeting.  So just send in the application and go to the meeting.  Worry about the rest from there.

radarlove: I've been coming to this website since I was a teen and on some level of our minds all voices register. Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of my subconscious, there is a breathy voice in a cloud of Maker's Mark that tells me that if I go on public assistance, I am a parasitic leach draining the lives of innocent people


Same here.  It wasn't very long ago my wife and I nearly ended up where you're at.  We lucked out and found jobs.  But I had the meeting all setup.  I wasn't exactly "stoked" to go.  What am I going to do next time I'm there?  Well I'll remember your post and think maybe I should toughen up and skip a few meals and not set up that meeting because you weren't a leech and had it worse.  Alternatively, you can send me an email (EIP) and let me know how your meeting goes, kill a teenie bit of the stigma for me and next time I'm in the situation I'll be able to tell myself this other guy did it, so I guess maybe it's slightly more okay and think I'm glad I read your post.

No pressure.  :-)
 
2014-04-08 01:49:01 PM  

pacified: sigdiamond2000: I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.

if you have tons of different funds in your 401k, you are actually losing money to management fees.  You shouldn't have more then 2 or 3 different funds, or your gains are being eaten away.

// not so smart now, are you?
// fart


I assumed he was talking about his entire investment portfolio, not just his 401k.

It was a pretty good joke too.
 
2014-04-08 01:51:47 PM  

itsaidwhat: TheWhoppah: Failure to raise $2000 for a down payment on an attorney causes students and young adults to plead guilty in cases where they really shouldn't.  Over their lifetime this simple mistake will lower their lifetime earning potential by several hundred thousand dollars.  The mistake is magnified when you consider that they probably COULD have sold their car or borrowed the $2000 from GrandMa if they were not embarrassed to admit they got busted with drugs or for petty theft.

I'm poor because I'm not buying enough lottery tickets. Statistically, it's true.

I'm poor because I'm not beating the wrap often enough. Statistically, it's true.

I'm poor because I make kids I can't feed, clothe or care for, buy cable TV and other stuff that I don't need, oh, refuse to work one job let alone two and I didn't take advantage of the free high school education that my government gave me.



And you will be even more poor with a conviction on your criminal history than without.
 
2014-04-08 01:51:52 PM  

pacified: sigdiamond2000: I have no credit card debt, pay for everything using cash (mainly ass pennies), my mortgage rate is -3.75%, and my portfolio is so diversified it makes your piddling 401k look like a Klan rally.

if you have tons of different funds in your 401k, you are actually losing money to management fees.  You shouldn't have more then 2 or 3 different funds, or your gains are being eaten away.

// not so smart now, are you?
// fart


notsureifserious.jpg

If you are serious, that's not how management fees work.  If not, well, then I'm an idiot.
 
2014-04-08 01:53:12 PM  

Dadoody: I have about 250k I could pull out and still be debt free.

I know people my age who've worked the same jobs as me and have made as much or more, and can't seem to save a dime of it, so unless you've got mental disabilities, there is no reason you couldn't have worked and saved or invested money in a way to grow it and have some for a rainy day unless you've made some poor life choices, and let's face it.....4 in 10 Americans usually do make some pretty lousy life choices.


This is not a popular thing to say, but it's true. Go down to the local supermarket where people are shopping with WIC - they have expensive clothes, cell phones, and all manner of toys. Most usually have electronic entertainment at home. My wife's kin in Appalachia are exemplars of this - poor white trash, always broke, but with more toys, gadgets, and superfluous garbage than you can shake a stick at. Drive down the back roads, you'll see all sorts of satellite dishes and shiny new cars in front of farking bleached-out shacks.

Poor people aren't poor just because of bad wealth distribution or evil corporations - they're also (and in some cases, solely) poor because they make bad decisions.
 
2014-04-08 01:55:34 PM  

The Missing Link: Fubini: The Missing Link: You can use the internet for free in most  libraries

That's a nice safety net, but that assumes that you have access to such a thing and that it makes sense to do so.

Think again about the poor rural American outside the broadcast range of a TV station. Even if the local libraries have internet, they might be ten or twenty miles away, they have limited hours of availability, and you've got to compete for computer time with other patrons.

Really?

If you are hurting for money you do what you have to do. Internet is not a necessity, a obama phone is not a necessity. TV is not a necessity. Necessities are things like food, water, shelter. The rest are luxuries. If you cannot afford a luxury, you should not have that luxury because you need to focus on the necessities (food, water, shelter)

This is not hard to comprehend.


Internet is a necessity these days. Libraries are not convenient to everyone, especially in poor areas, and the internet is the only way to find and apply for many, if not most, jobs today. A phone is absolutely a necessity, and cell phones these days can be incredibly cheap to buy, and you can get incredibly cheap plans. They are important as a tool so that you can contact employers and so employers can contact you.

This is not hard to comprehend.
 
2014-04-08 01:55:37 PM  

Lagaidh: lennavan: The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.

The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.

We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.

Actually, this person sounds to me like they've spent time truly thinking about the subject. Many life-long middle class (and higher) folks I've met never think twice about a small luxury. In my own experience, I feel like those who do pinch all types of pennies have spent appreciable time being poor, or are an engineer =)

Be poor long enough and the decisions really do become that black and white easy. Think about how my generation's (GenX) grandparents behaved due to experiencing the Great Depression. Our parents (their kids) sure acted differently in an America of absolute abundance...


I think everyone should have to have some sort of learning situation where they are given money and then go through it and then get into debt. Mine was definitely college where I ran up like 2k on my CC and realized that if I didn't pay it off, how much I'd owe over the years paying it off. Paid that sh-t off in 3 months working my ass off. After that I saved saved saved and I definitely think not a few months down the road, but like 5 years down the road and always 'what if I lose my job" mentality. Weird way to live but it keeps at least financial stress away because I've put a good amount away for a rainy season.
 
2014-04-08 01:58:22 PM  

Lagaidh: lennavan: The Missing Link: I have never been poor and looking for work while being out of a job.

The Missing Link: Seriously, I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK, WHILE BEING OUT OF A JOB.

The Missing Link: No, NEVER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN POOR AND LOOKING FOR WORK.  FFS PEOPLE This is not hard to comprehend.

We know.  Geez dude, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.

Actually, this person sounds to me like they've spent time truly thinking about the subject. Many life-long middle class (and higher) folks I've met never think twice about a small luxury. In my own experience, I feel like those who do pinch all types of pennies have spent appreciable time being poor, or are an engineer =)

Be poor long enough and the decisions really do become that black and white easy. Think about how my generation's (GenX) grandparents behaved due to experiencing the Great Depression. Our parents (their kids) sure acted differently in an America of absolute abundance...



I have no doubt he has spent plenty of time thinking about it.  The problem is what he totally imagined doesn't match reality.  He suggests someone perform a job search without internet and a phone.  You gotta be shiatting me with this stuff.  I know he totally imagines going door to door asking for a job works.  I agree, he has thought about how great of a method that would be.  I also have zero doubt he has never actually done it himself.
 
2014-04-08 01:59:56 PM  

Witness99: Naw, I could come up with it. But that's only because I would be willing to do ANYTHING


I said it earlier, and I'll say it again:  Your shiat ain't worth what you think it is on the open market.

JC22: No one is going to bemoan you for it.


I don't care about being bemoaned.  People's perceptions of me are irrelevant to me.  If they were I wouldn't be posting any of this.  And if that was why I've done what I've done so far, I wouldn't be genuinely contrite when I apologize to those whom I'm taking from.  I simply sincerely do not want to take from people who do not want to give.  It in my mind is the same as thievery.  I do not take what is not given.  I realize that codes have largely fallen by the wayside in this day and age but I still live by one.

JC22: But there are also those that game the system so they don't have to do anything. That's why those on the right want those people kicked off assistance.


The problem here is that in my time among the impoverished, and that time has been considerable, I have met a lot of poor individuals on public assistance.  A LOT.  I would venture an estimate that around 80%-85% of the people that I've met in my life live far below the poverty line and are on some kind of benefits.  Out of all the people I've met, not a single one appeared to be "gaming the system."  Or, from a different perspective, all of us are.  Maybe if we just pushed a little harder, worked ourselves a little more raw, we wouldn't need that assistance.  But for whatever reason, we didn't.

That's the laziness of which the critical side speaks.  That's how people "game the system."  What you purport to attack is a fallacy- a boogeyman.  What you hit is us.

TheShavingofOccam123: There's a support network out there for you.


I'm looking into said network.  Thanks man.  =)
 
2014-04-08 02:02:26 PM  
In January 2012, the average cable TV subscriber paid nearly three times as much for cable then as they did in 2001, according to research by SNL Kagan cited by the Wall Street Journal. The jump in average prices amoundted to about $128 per month from $48.

Cable prices have risen 6 percent this last July over the previous year.

The first thing you do to solve a problem is to admit there's a problem. And the problem is not how you prepare crumbs.
 
2014-04-08 02:03:01 PM