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(Fox News)   "Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city"   (foxnews.com) divider line 277
    More: Sad, New York City, second-class citizen, John Walker, National Association of Evangelicals, largest school districts, New York Civil Liberties Union, compelling government interest  
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17914 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2014 at 7:17 PM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



277 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-07 06:26:04 PM
That no one at Fox News as had a stroke because of cognitive dissonance is amazing.
 
2014-04-07 06:34:37 PM
a57.foxnews.com

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?
 
2014-04-07 06:37:48 PM
It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.
 
2014-04-07 06:43:42 PM
Quit whining. Nobody cares what you think.
 
2014-04-07 06:45:42 PM
By Todd Starnes

GOD DAMMIT. Can we get a farking "Starnes" tag already?

*deep breath*, OK, since I already made the click.

A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city.

Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.
 
2014-04-07 06:46:59 PM
Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.
 
2014-04-07 06:48:26 PM

dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.


The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.
 
2014-04-07 06:53:23 PM
Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.
 
2014-04-07 06:59:43 PM

DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.


Something, something, church, something, state.

I know a guy who used to be an elementary school principal. He refused to rent the school gym to any religious organizations because if he did for one, he'd have to do it for all (Moonies, KKK, etc). He got death threats for doing this.
 
2014-04-07 07:08:30 PM
*click*

by Todd Starnes

*click*
 
2014-04-07 07:17:08 PM
Just once, I'd think the people that have a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe could have something go their way.
 
2014-04-07 07:18:25 PM
Why is New York City bullying Christians?

 A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings.


Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?
 
2014-04-07 07:19:31 PM

Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?


This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.
 
2014-04-07 07:19:40 PM
When god smites the city, just remember not to turn around to look.
 
2014-04-07 07:20:49 PM
Forget about all that Christian persecution stuff. Since when is New York the second largest city?

GET ME MY CONGRESSMAN ON THE LINE. WHAT? HE'S A WOMAN??? SINCE WHEN???
 
2014-04-07 07:21:22 PM

DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.


Not if they refuse to rent to everybody.  At least that's my understanding.  There's also something about "compelling government interest" which one of the Fark lawyers can address, but that might not apply here.  I think that's the reasoning behind letting parochial schools use public buses.
 
2014-04-07 07:23:27 PM
Let me know when they're dragged out of their houses at 3:00 am and their entire neighborhood is burned down.  These people have no idea what persecution really is.
 
2014-04-07 07:24:13 PM
Wouldn't renting space for worship (of any religion) be a good way for poor schools to raise a little dough?

/as others have pointed out, I don't see how this rule makes Christians in particular second-class citizens, since it bans religious worship, not just Christians
 
2014-04-07 07:24:15 PM

DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.


Aha!  A Fark lawyer!  I sentence you to answer your own question!

/no, seriously, I thought as long as they didn't rent to ANY religious institution it was OK.  I'd never heard about churches falling under a third party clause.  Although I guess that makes sense in its own way.
 
2014-04-07 07:24:21 PM

Lsherm: DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.

Not if they refuse to rent to everybody.  At least that's my understanding.  There's also something about "compelling government interest" which one of the Fark lawyers can address, but that might not apply here.  I think that's the reasoning behind letting parochial schools use public buses.


I am a Fark lawyer. And I agree with you about renting to everybody. But the law seems to contemplate the opposite - that they will rent to everyone EXCEPT churches.
 
2014-04-07 07:24:37 PM

Lsherm: DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.

Not if they refuse to rent to everybody.  At least that's my understanding.  There's also something about "compelling government interest" which one of the Fark lawyers can address, but that might not apply here.  I think that's the reasoning behind letting parochial schools use public buses.


............but they don't refuse to rent to everybody just religious organizations.
 
2014-04-07 07:24:53 PM

StopLurkListen: Forget about all that Christian persecution stuff. Since when is New York the second largest city?

GET ME MY CONGRESSMAN ON THE LINE. WHAT? HE'S A WOMAN??? SINCE WHEN???


"second-class citizens in the nation's largest city."

Your reading comprehension sucks.

/subby gets credit for parallelism in the headline.
 
2014-04-07 07:25:00 PM
\

DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.


This sound reasonable.
 
2014-04-07 07:25:16 PM

Lsherm: /no, seriously, I thought as long as they didn't rent to ANY religious institution it was OK.  I'd never heard about churches falling under a third party clause.  Although I guess that makes sense in its own way.


You can't discriminate between religious and non-religious institutions at all. I'm not a civil rights lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that's the law.
 
2014-04-07 07:25:59 PM
Pray harder.
 
2014-04-07 07:26:10 PM
uh, aren't ALL religious people second-class citizens, by reason of their dumbassery?
 
2014-04-07 07:26:41 PM
I think the big problem is the obvious lion shortage.
 
2014-04-07 07:26:54 PM
Why is it that too many Christians don't understand that the Bible tells you you can worship God anywhere? The first churches were just founded for the convenience of gathering believers in one spot. That's why I hate Catholicism. They took something good and perverted it into ceremonies, worshiping idols, and worshiping men.
 
2014-04-07 07:27:28 PM
ic.pics.livejournal.com
 
2014-04-07 07:27:32 PM

Dwight_Yeast: StopLurkListen: Forget about all that Christian persecution stuff. Since when is New York the second largest city?

GET ME MY CONGRESSMAN ON THE LINE. WHAT? HE'S A WOMAN??? SINCE WHEN???

"second-class citizens in the nation's largest city."

Your reading comprehension sucks.

/subby gets credit for parallelism in the headline.


GET MY ENGLISH TEACHER AND MOTHER ON THE LINE. I CAN'T BLAME MYSELF FOR THIS ONE EITHER.  OK, BLAME ALL OF SOCIETY TOO
 
2014-04-07 07:27:45 PM

Great_Milenko: Let me know when they're dragged out of their houses at 3:00 am and their entire neighborhood is burned down.  These people have no idea what persecution really is.


But this is just the beginning, don't you see that?

/Don't you?!?
 
2014-04-07 07:28:00 PM

BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.


If they're renting space to other RELIGIOUS GROUPS and denying churches it's discriminatory. If they have a consistently-applied prohibition on denying space to all religious groups their simply following the Establishment Clause
 
2014-04-07 07:28:06 PM

DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.


Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?

/IANAL, which is why I ask.
 
2014-04-07 07:28:32 PM

Dinki: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x230]

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?


Because even Down's Syndrome didn't stop him from having a successful career in "journalism."
 
2014-04-07 07:28:49 PM
Evangelical Christians don't get to make all the rules and tell everyone else what to do so now they're oppressed.

It's like that big fat kid who keeps hitting everyone and someone tells him he can't do it anymore and he starts crying.
 
2014-04-07 07:29:07 PM

Esc7: Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?


I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.
 
2014-04-07 07:30:04 PM
If all third parties are equal, I want to rent a moonbounce for a gay orgy.
 
2014-04-07 07:30:20 PM
Oh, he's serious? bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....
 
2014-04-07 07:30:23 PM
Damn those atheists who founded the country, developed its ideals, and wrote them down in the Bill of Rights!
 
2014-04-07 07:30:33 PM
If you listen to Fox "News" your part of the problem.
 
2014-04-07 07:31:05 PM

DamnYankees: Esc7: Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?

I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.


The distinction may be that the school only rents to third parties in furtherance of some educational interest.
 
2014-04-07 07:31:06 PM
By Todd Starnes

cry moar
 
2014-04-07 07:31:13 PM

skinink: Why is it that too many Christians don't understand that the Bible tells you you can worship God anywhere? The first churches were just founded for the convenience of gathering believers in one spot. That's why I hate Catholicism. They took something good and perverted it into ceremonies, worshiping idols, and worshiping men.


Catholicism is just good marketing. People like all that BS, they just gave it to them.

Like moving around Christmas and Easter to align with the pagans.
 
2014-04-07 07:31:29 PM
But do the schools rent space to AA meetings?
 
2014-04-07 07:32:07 PM

Dinki: You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?


That's not possible. I have a crying glittery bald eagle with an American Flag riding a Harley past the Statue of Liberty projected behind me on a 50 foot tall IMAX screen everywhere I go.

That makes the most patriotic person in the whole world.

/ It takes three electricians working overtime time to make sure its always working.
// the electricians are undocumented immigrants, so I'm not really paying overtime
/// those cheap projectors from China hardly ever catch on fire!
 
2014-04-07 07:32:25 PM

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: That no one at Fox News as had a stroke because of cognitive dissonance is amazing.


When Pat Robertson is spasming  in the jaws of a starving lion, I'll believe Christians are second-class citizens.

I will also name my penis "Rock of Ages".

/understand the true meaning of sacrifice, you pinheaded godbots.
 
2014-04-07 07:32:30 PM
Religion doesn't belong in school, for any reason, pure and simple. Keep that in designated religious buildings and your own homes.
Or rent a community center. Stay the hell out of schools.
 
2014-04-07 07:33:14 PM
The ban is constitutional, but I don't understand the purpose of the law. Nobody is using the school on Sundays so why not rent out the space. An atheist must have heard about the churches being there and caught the vapors.
 
2014-04-07 07:33:19 PM

DamnYankees: Esc7: Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?

I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.


I agree which is why I'm confused. How can you even detect worship? It almost literally happens entirely inside your head.

I could be praying RIGHT NOW.
 
2014-04-07 07:33:24 PM

firefly212: DamnYankees: Esc7: Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?

I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.

The distinction may be that the school only rents to third parties in furtherance of some educational interest.


Ok but that's not what the law says here. The law in this case just flatly excludes religious organizations.
 
2014-04-07 07:33:26 PM

firefly212: DamnYankees: Esc7: Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?

I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.

The distinction may be that the school only rents to third parties in furtherance of some educational interest.


That's not the ruling. You can hold a meeting to discuss why the earth is flat so long as you don't bring up God.
 
2014-04-07 07:33:43 PM

Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.


Obligatory "your god hung from nails, my god owns a farking hammer" meme here.
 
2014-04-07 07:34:37 PM

BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.


Is there an amendment banning government from establishing chess or basket-weaving?
 
2014-04-07 07:34:54 PM

twistedmetal: When god smites the city, just remember not to turn around to look.


Indeed. You might realize you're in Jersey, though frankly, the smell is a big hint.
 
2014-04-07 07:35:12 PM
I hope this guy has some he can sell me. He must get very good stuff. Why else would you say that about a city:

In which 70% of the population claim to be Christians.

That is home to over 6,000 churches including this guy who is the 4th largest Christian Church in the world.
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-07 07:35:27 PM

stewbert: But do the schools rent space to AA meetings?


I'm guessing, not any more...
 
2014-04-07 07:35:41 PM

Dinki: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x230]

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?


because he can't straighten his glasses for a head shot?
 
2014-04-07 07:36:14 PM

gaspode: BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.

Is there an amendment banning government from establishing chess or basket-weaving?


If the government rents it out to whoever wants it the establishment clause doesn't apply.
 
2014-04-07 07:36:16 PM

fusillade762: Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.


It still works... If, in fact, all religious groups would receive the same response, and one accepts the idea that this ruling makes religious groups second-class citizens, then as a subset of the category "religious" Christians become second-class citizens.  Similarly with the idea of an assault on religious freedom.  An assault on the whole, in this case, also assaults the subset.
 
2014-04-07 07:36:22 PM

Esc7: DamnYankees: Esc7: Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?

I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.

I agree which is why I'm confused. How can you even detect worship? It almost literally happens entirely inside your head.

I could be praying RIGHT NOW.


That's like the Quakers, they just sit around looking at each other until..........errrrr.........moved by the Holy ghost.
 
2014-04-07 07:36:27 PM
Second class? Glad to see you guys finally moving up in the world.
 
2014-04-07 07:36:41 PM

Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.


I'm a Christian. I believe Godnisnt weak. I believe that if God wanted to God could intervene and prevent this from happening.

Thus, I am left with the conclussion that either God supports this decision or just doesn't care one way or another about a city trying to keep their schools secular.

Frankly, I like my version of God a lot better than their version. My version isn't an asshole.
 
2014-04-07 07:37:31 PM

The_Philosopher_King: I hope this guy has some he can sell me. He must get very good stuff. Why else would you say that about a city:

In which 70% of the population claim to be Christians.

That is home to over 6,000 churches including this guy who is the 4th largest Christian Church in the world.
[img.fark.net image 547x599]


No, no, no...  When he says "Christians", he means "True Christians"... Evangelical Christians.

/Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism
 
2014-04-07 07:37:44 PM
"Somebody should explain to Ms. Lieberman that there's a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion."

There are differences between any two things - that doesn't mean that similarities don't apply to them.
Like in this case - there is a similarity between freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion - namely, that the Constitution affords me both of them.

As far as this case - I don't care much about things like this - the ACLU is technically right, but I don't see much harm from renting out rooms on weekends. let the courts hash it out.

But let's not say stupid things, Mr. Faux News Blog-writer man/boy.
 
2014-04-07 07:38:04 PM

BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.


What if they are only renting to churches and not covens, synagogues, mosques, etc? That is still disparate impact right so the rule should be upheld so no one has that advantage. In that case, the Court's ruling is just.
 
2014-04-07 07:38:12 PM

Dinki: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x230]

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?


Wait, look at his left shoulder, is he slowly being erased? Only Marty our faith can save him!
 
2014-04-07 07:38:19 PM
SHUT UP TODD
 
2014-04-07 07:38:57 PM

Valiente: Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.

Obligatory "your god hung from nails, my god owns a farking hammer" meme here.


Oh whatever, my god only had to hang for three days. Yours had to hang for nine.

"Even in sin you're paying retail" - Jon Stewart
 
2014-04-07 07:39:13 PM
Todd is really a poor substitute for Talking Smegma.
 
2014-04-07 07:39:20 PM
Todd Starnes is probably the closest reality has ever come to the political cartoonist from the Onion.
 
2014-04-07 07:39:35 PM

timswar: Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.

I'm a Christian. I believe Godnisnt weak. I believe that if God wanted to God could intervene and prevent this from happening.

Thus, I am left with the conclussion that either God supports this decision or just doesn't care one way or another about a city trying to keep their schools secular.

Frankly, I like my version of God a lot better than their version. My version isn't an asshole.


Never knock on my door to share your "good news" and we've got a deal, but I suspect some of your co-religionists might consider you of insufficient faith and possibly good works for your hypothesis and for believing that god can't be the biggest asshole of them all.
 
2014-04-07 07:40:05 PM

Deedeemarz: BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.

What if they are only renting to churches and not covens, synagogues, mosques, etc? That is still disparate impact right so the rule should be upheld so no one has that advantage. In that case, the Court's ruling is just.


Except that's not what happened so it's not.
 
2014-04-07 07:41:32 PM
Well they've been treating everyone who is not christian like second-class citizens for a very long time so, fark them.
 
2014-04-07 07:42:12 PM

fusillade762: By Todd Starnes

GOD DAMMIT. Can we get a farking "Starnes" tag already?


Looks like I need to change my Wampler Sheldon pic...
 
2014-04-07 07:42:47 PM

stewbert: But do the schools rent space to AA meetings?


Why would the auto club need to rent space at schools?
 
2014-04-07 07:42:53 PM

Confabulat: Just once, I'd think the people that have a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe could have something go their way.


Their Messiah was persecuted, and so must they be.

Or something.

/Even if they have to pretend...
//No it doesn't make sense
 
2014-04-07 07:43:43 PM
Not enough lions.
 
2014-04-07 07:44:15 PM

abhorrent1: Well they've been treating everyone who is not christian like second-class citizens for a very long time so, fark them.


White man's burden.
 
2014-04-07 07:44:37 PM
It's official! They said so on FOX!
 
2014-04-07 07:44:40 PM

Bob Falfa: DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.

Something, something, church, something, state.

I know a guy who used to be an elementary school principal. He refused to rent the school gym to any religious organizations because if he did for one, he'd have to do it for all (Moonies, KKK, etc). He got death threats for doing this.


Well, then, I would guess that he didn't rent the school gym out to any organization, to make it completely fair.

/If not, then he was discriminating on the basis of religion, which itself is unconstitutional.
 
2014-04-07 07:44:50 PM

genner: Deedeemarz: BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.

What if they are only renting to churches and not covens, synagogues, mosques, etc? That is still disparate impact right so the rule should be upheld so no one has that advantage. In that case, the Court's ruling is just.

Except that's not what happened so it's not.


It actually doesn't say....
 
2014-04-07 07:45:12 PM
for the love of FSM, DON'T READ THE COMMENTS!
I swear my IQ dropped 8-10 points and it was never that high to begin with
 
2014-04-07 07:45:32 PM

SilentStrider: Quit whining. Nobody cares what you think.


That's the right attitude.
 
2014-04-07 07:45:45 PM
I asked someone I know who rants and raves about being "persecuted" for being a Christian to explain what she meant by this supposed "persecution," and she told me it was that non-Christians have no problem saying or doing things that offend her.

So, apparently being offended = being persecuted.

Excuse me while I go bang my head on this desk over here.
 
2014-04-07 07:45:49 PM
img-oh wait youre serious
 
2014-04-07 07:47:42 PM
Christians who listen to Fox have become first-class suckers.
 
2014-04-07 07:48:06 PM

fusillade762: By Todd Starnes

GOD DAMMIT. Can we get a farking "Starnes" tag already?

*deep breath*, OK, since I already made the click.

A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city.

Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.


Okay, have it your way, they're exercising viewpoint discrimination against ALL religion. Does that make it somehow less of an assholeish position?
 
2014-04-07 07:48:06 PM

treesloth: fusillade762: Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.

It still works... If, in fact, all religious groups would receive the same response, and one accepts the idea that this ruling makes religious groups second-class citizens, then as a subset of the category "religious" Christians become second-class citizens.  Similarly with the idea of an assault on religious freedom.  An assault on the whole, in this case, also assaults the subset.


i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-04-07 07:48:16 PM
media.tumblr.com

All is as it should be, carry on...
 
2014-04-07 07:49:06 PM

DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.


The Court in New York just said the opposite. Which does go again prior precedent.
 
2014-04-07 07:49:36 PM
that article was rather short on details.  are ALL churches banned from renting out school buildings?
 
2014-04-07 07:49:41 PM

Dirty J1: Religion doesn't belong in school, for any reason, pure and simple. Keep that in designated religious buildings and your own homes.
Or rent a community center. Stay the hell out of schools.


I get that...and if they ban all religious groups, as a Christian, I don't take it personally.

I just think it's dumb to have buildings sit empty.  I think those buildings should be used 7 days a week.

I also think churches should be used 7 days a week. If you meet on Sunday, rent your building to an adventist group that meets on Saturday.
 
2014-04-07 07:49:55 PM

Xcott: Todd Starnes is probably the closest reality has ever come to the political cartoonist from the Onion.



i28.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-07 07:50:10 PM
Whoever wrote that needs to have somebody get a good strong 50 yard running start on them that ends in a full out kick in the balls.
 
2014-04-07 07:50:29 PM
"The New York Civil Liberties Union hailed the ruling as a victory for religious freedom."

Lolwutpear.jpg

/atheist
 
2014-04-07 07:50:37 PM
Scrolling through the discussion here, there's one point that I don't think I saw covered, and it could be a telling one.

Didn't various evangelical groups howl and whine at the top of their lungs to support the rights of businesses not to cater to (or bake cakes for) (or rent halls to) whoever they saw fit, for whatever reason?

Bearing that in mind, all I'm getting from this is a "sauce for the goose" vibe. Or a "hoist by your own petard" vibe.  And I think they may even be cross-pollinating, creating a "sauce for your own petard" vibe.
 
2014-04-07 07:50:47 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Christians People who listen to Fox have become first-class suckers.


FTFY. At least in that way, Fox is fair and balance.
 
2014-04-07 07:50:51 PM

Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.


GOD is ALL POWERFUL.  This is merely SIGN OF THE END TIMES.

/Repent sinner
//the end is near
///it will happen within the next decade
////Why yes I have said this continuously since 1974
//GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS
//(and now you know why I don't visit my mom)
 
2014-04-07 07:50:58 PM

oryx: The ban is constitutional, but I don't understand the purpose of the law. Nobody is using the school on Sundays so why not rent out the space. An atheist must have heard about the churches being there and caught the vapors.


The law exists because if a school rents to one church or religious grouping, it must rent to all.  If you let the Methodists rent, you must let the Moonies and Satanists rent.
 
2014-04-07 07:51:09 PM
I'd wish death on the man but, someone would just view him as a martyr for the continued endorsement of xtianity he claims doesn't exist in our government.  There's a reason Europe laughs at our politics like we are children.  We keep electing wannabe theocrats who can't comprehend that the way things currently are is in violation of our own laws against endorsing religions via government.

All religious people are ignorant and must surely have a portion of their brain stuck in reverse to be able to have religious faith with all the evidence contradicting their all loving deity's existence.  Sure, all the bad things are satan but, according to you morons, who is responsible for satan?
 
2014-04-07 07:51:11 PM

genner: Deedeemarz: BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.

What if they are only renting to churches and not covens, synagogues, mosques, etc? That is still disparate impact right so the rule should be upheld so no one has that advantage. In that case, the Court's ruling is just.

Except that's not what happened so it's not.


We don't know that, or anything much else. There is very little hard information in the article. It's a typical Faux news rant, consisting mostly of blatting and bleating, and little else. No real history on the situation, no mention of the testimony or arguments submitted by the complainants, not an sentence excerpted from the opinions.
Nothing much but Todd Starnes "feels".
I wouldn't for one moment attempt to formulate any kind of an opinion based on what is provided in this "article".
 
2014-04-07 07:51:17 PM

Deedeemarz: genner: Deedeemarz: BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.

What if they are only renting to churches and not covens, synagogues, mosques, etc? That is still disparate impact right so the rule should be upheld so no one has that advantage. In that case, the Court's ruling is just.

Except that's not what happened so it's not.

It actually doesn't say....


Even if it went down that way the answer would be to allow everyone equal access and not to ban religious groups..
 
2014-04-07 07:51:20 PM

Dirty J1: Religion doesn't belong in school, for any reason, pure and simple. Keep that in designated religious buildings and your own homes.
Or rent a community center. Stay the hell out of schools.


In regards to understanding world history, culture, philosophy; and to some degree, politics, i would say you are wrong.


In regards to hard sciences/math, and the like, i would agree thatreligion has no place on understanding the concepts, unless as nothing more than a historical anecdote.
 
2014-04-07 07:51:21 PM

Lsherm: DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.

Aha!  A Fark lawyer!  I sentence you to answer your own question!

/no, seriously, I thought as long as they didn't rent to ANY religious institution it was OK.  I'd never heard about churches falling under a third party clause.  Although I guess that makes sense in its own way.


If you make it available to secular but not religious grips, then you are discrimination again the religious.

This line of thought had been upheld by federal law and Supreme Court cases.
 
2014-04-07 07:51:22 PM

fusillade762: A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city.


Is that it?

It's a fuzzy line, but I think holding church services in a building paid for by tax dollars might just be crossing that line.
 
2014-04-07 07:52:14 PM
as long as the ban applies to all religious groups across the board, I don't see a problem with it.
 
2014-04-07 07:52:19 PM

Danger Avoid Death: Lenny_da_Hog: Christians People who listen to Fox have become first-class suckers.

FTFY. At least in that way, Fox is fair and balance.


"Fair and Balanced". Geez, even mentioning Fox made me dumber.
 
2014-04-07 07:52:23 PM
The Christian thing to do by way of reaction is, especially in New York City, to turn the other cheek but with a heaping helping of attitude: "You call THAT weak-ass shiat persecution? Here, hit me again. HIT ME AGAIN, YA HUMP."

Does anybody under 50 use "ya hump" any more? It's woefully underutilized.
 
2014-04-07 07:52:49 PM

Crabs_Can_Polevault: Scrolling through the discussion here, there's one point that I don't think I saw covered, and it could be a telling one.

Didn't various evangelical groups howl and whine at the top of their lungs to support the rights of businesses not to cater to (or bake cakes for) (or rent halls to) whoever they saw fit, for whatever reason?


Why would that matter? Private businesses are held to different standards than public institutions.
 
2014-04-07 07:53:24 PM
Are all these poor second class citizens also suing to finally be allowed to be taxed like everyone else?

Dishonest farking twatsicles....
 
2014-04-07 07:53:44 PM
why don't they (the Christians) meet at the park or Terry's house?
 
2014-04-07 07:53:47 PM
and this is why the idiots who claim the rapture is coming next year, find out when if you send me 19.99 usd get rich

fecking morons
 
2014-04-07 07:54:03 PM

Gulper Eel: The Christian thing to do by way of reaction is, especially in New York City, to turn the other cheek but with a heaping helping of attitude: "You call THAT weak-ass shiat persecution? Here, hit me again. HIT ME AGAIN, YA HUMP."

Does anybody under 50 use "ya hump" any more? It's woefully underutilized.


rlv.zcache.com
 
2014-04-07 07:54:27 PM

SquiggsIN: There's a reason Europe laughs at our politics like we are children.


This would be the Europe that fought Russia three times in the 20th Century because it couldn't get its collective shiat together and is gearing up for round 4?
 
2014-04-07 07:54:38 PM

DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.


I'm not sure how it is in NY, but California makes the (bizarre and confusing) distinction between "limited" public forums and "designated" public forums. A "limited" forum is one that is only open for limited uses--schools, libraries, etc. A "designated" forum is one that is specified as a public forum and is only open at certain times. (I could have that backward) Limited forums are subject to time/place/manner restrictions, and designated forums are not (or vice versa).

Anyway, assuming I was right the first time, a "limited" forum can in fact be restricted as to usage if it conflicts with other content-neutral rulings, as here. A school can't have religious meetings if it presents the appearance of the school/government advancing or promoting religion. So even if the school rents its auditorium out for events, it cannot rent it out for religious usage if there is a perceived entanglement between church and state. But I never did get the distinction between limited and designated forums, so I could be wrong.

On the other hand, if the churches have all that money, and need the space, why not just find another room to rent? Why does it HAVE to be in a school?
 
2014-04-07 07:54:58 PM

Bob Falfa: DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.

Something, something, church, something, state.

I know a guy who used to be an elementary school principal. He refused to rent the school gym to any religious organizations because if he did for one, he'd have to do it for all (Moonies, KKK, etc). He got death threats for doing this.


Even if a group's philosophies, worldviews, and ultimate aims are repellent, as long as they don't break the law how does one justify this kind of discrimination? How about if the NRA, NARAL, Greenpeace, ACLU, Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee, or  International Juggler's Association wanted to rent the buildings, should he be permitted to pick and choose which groups are worthy?
 
2014-04-07 07:55:25 PM

Crabs_Can_Polevault: Scrolling through the discussion here, there's one point that I don't think I saw covered, and it could be a telling one.

Didn't various evangelical groups howl and whine at the top of their lungs to support the rights of businesses not to cater to (or bake cakes for) (or rent halls to) whoever they saw fit, for whatever reason?

Bearing that in mind, all I'm getting from this is a "sauce for the goose" vibe. Or a "hoist by your own petard" vibe.  And I think they may even be cross-pollinating, creating a "sauce for your own petard" vibe.


Fortunately, the judicial system is not supposed to work on "the a-holes had it coming" principle, because that can be, and certainly has been, a shifting target as public views and sentiments evolve.
 
2014-04-07 07:55:53 PM
I'm a Fark Lawyer but I practice business law.  So I don't give a damn so long as my client (and I) get paid and my client is happy with the outcome.

In my personal life I'm a violent agnostic, member of the ACLU & NRA, and personal subscriber to the Wall of Separation newsletter penned by T. Jefferson.  <insert grumpycatgood.jpg>

/DNRTFA - Starnes might as well be the 'murican stinker.
 
2014-04-07 07:55:53 PM
Sure, second-class.  Perhaps they forget that America is essentially the Christian version of a Sharia Law religious republic.  Perhaps they also forget that this life is supposed to be a test, and that the true life begins after death.  They're pretty shiatty Christians if they put emphasis on this world's comforts.
 
2014-04-07 07:55:55 PM

Gyrfalcon: I'm not sure how it is in NY, but California makes the (bizarre and confusing) distinction between "limited" public forums and "designated" public forums. A "limited" forum is one that is only open for limited uses--schools, libraries, etc. A "designated" forum is one that is specified as a public forum and is only open at certain times. (I could have that backward) Limited forums are subject to time/place/manner restrictions, and designated forums are not (or vice versa).


I believe this is a federal distinction, not a CA distinction.
 
2014-04-07 07:56:21 PM
Let us break down the headline/quote:
Not just Christians. Not officially. They aren't being treated like second class citizens, and its the most populated city, not the largest.

So, head line should read:
have beome in the nation's city
 
2014-04-07 07:56:40 PM
Cry the fark more.
 
2014-04-07 07:56:42 PM

VendorXeno: Are all these poor second class citizens also suing to finally be allowed to be taxed like everyone else?



Ohhh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!
When we say "equality", we don't mean "Equality" equality. We just mean an "Equality" that consists of you following the rules, and us doing what we want.
 
2014-04-07 07:57:47 PM
Stop believing in bull shait.
Really.
That's enough,
 
2014-04-07 07:58:08 PM

Weaver95: as long as the ban applies to all religious groups across the board, I don't see a problem with it.


It does.

NY law says schools can be used for community purposes, but that all of those purposes must be non-exclusive and open to the public. In its policies, NYC contain a specific prohibition for using them for any and all religious promotions and services,


1. Pursuant to New York Educ. Law § 414 (McKinney 2002), a school district or local school board may permit school facilities to be used during nonschool hours for a wide variety of purposes, including:
holding social, civic and recreational meetings and entertainments, and other uses pertaining to the welfare of the community; but such meetings, entertainment and uses shall be non-exclusive and shall be open to the general public.
N.Y. Educ. Law § 414(1)(c).

County School District No. 10 adopted this standard as part of its Standard Operating Procedures (SOP). The district's SOP, however, adds a prohibition against the use of school property for "religious services or religious instruction," Bronx Household of Faith v. Board of Education (Bronx II), No. 01-Civ-8598
 
2014-04-07 07:58:17 PM
You know, I spoke with Jesus and he told me that he'd be far happier if these churches used that rent money to help out the less-fortunate.
 
2014-04-07 07:58:27 PM
img.fark.net
Has this been posted yet?
 
2014-04-07 07:58:44 PM
Other than the Christian label being interchanged with "organized religion" I'm ok with them being upset at this.  It does strike me as stupid to decide not to rent a public building to a group based on religious views.

Now, if they decided to only ban renting to Christians (and still let Jews, Muslims, Pastafarians, etc.) rent the buildings, their outrage would be justified.

Except the last 2 paragraphs.  No matter the situation, fark those last 2 paragraphs.
 
2014-04-07 07:58:59 PM

Gyrfalcon: I'm not sure how it is in NY, but California makes the (bizarre and confusing) distinction between "limited" public forums and "designated" public forums.


Then there's Penthouse Forum.

www.hotflick.net

They printed his letter.
 
2014-04-07 07:59:03 PM
Throwin' 'em to the lions?

No.

Walk it off princess.
 
2014-04-07 08:00:34 PM

This text is now purple: SquiggsIN: There's a reason Europe laughs at our politics like we are children.

This would be the Europe that fought Russia three times in the 20th Century because it couldn't get its collective shiat together and is gearing up for round 4?


Yeah, those Europeans can be pretty sophisticated. Farking Italy has had more governments in the last 20 years than I've had hot dinners. Those Greeks, dthey really know how to rev up an economy....
 
2014-04-07 08:00:38 PM

dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.


But it's only oppression because Christians and such as.
 
2014-04-07 08:00:50 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Weaver95: as long as the ban applies to all religious groups across the board, I don't see a problem with it.

It does.

NY law says schools can be used for community purposes, but that all of those purposes must be non-exclusive and open to the public. In its policies, NYC contain a specific prohibition for using them for any and all religious promotions and services,


1. Pursuant to New York Educ. Law § 414 (McKinney 2002), a school district or local school board may permit school facilities to be used during nonschool hours for a wide variety of purposes, including:
holding social, civic and recreational meetings and entertainments, and other uses pertaining to the welfare of the community; but such meetings, entertainment and uses shall be non-exclusive and shall be open to the general public.
N.Y. Educ. Law § 414(1)(c).

County School District No. 10 adopted this standard as part of its Standard Operating Procedures (SOP). The district's SOP, however, adds a prohibition against the use of school property for "religious services or religious instruction," Bronx Household of Faith v. Board of Education (Bronx II), No. 01-Civ-8598


Thank you for that.
 
2014-04-07 08:01:19 PM

jjorsett: fusillade762: By Todd Starnes

GOD DAMMIT. Can we get a farking "Starnes" tag already?

*deep breath*, OK, since I already made the click.

A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city.

Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.

Okay, have it your way, they're exercising viewpoint discrimination against ALL religion. Does that make it somehow less of an assholeish position?


I guess we can add the First Amendment to the long list of things you don't appear to understand.
 
2014-04-07 08:01:57 PM
It's the religion of hate, so it's okay to hate it.

also,

Dinki: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x230]

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?

wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net

4.bp.blogspot.com

media.giphy.com
 
2014-04-07 08:05:04 PM

Just for lulz, here's the New York Times article on the ruling. Fark: Bill de Blasio disagrees with the policy:

"I stand by my belief that a faith organization playing by the same rules as any community nonprofit deserves access," he said. "You know, they have to go through the same application process, wait their turn for space, pay the same rent. But I think they deserve access. They play a very, very important role in terms of providing social services and other important community services, and I think they deserve that right."


For the record, I personally find de Blasio's position here to be reasonable, up to a point. I also sympathize with the NYCLU's concerns about religious groups "dominating" access to school space after-hours, but there have to be ways to address those concerns short of a blanket ban.
 
2014-04-07 08:07:56 PM
i1.cpcache.com
 
2014-04-07 08:08:34 PM

Dinki: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x230]

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?


Because he's dating Betty Bowers?
 
2014-04-07 08:08:47 PM

Crabs_Can_Polevault: Scrolling through the discussion here, there's one point that I don't think I saw covered, and it could be a telling one.

Didn't various evangelical groups howl and whine at the top of their lungs to support the rights of businesses not to cater to (or bake cakes for) (or rent halls to) whoever they saw fit, for whatever reason?

Bearing that in mind, all I'm getting from this is a "sauce for the goose" vibe. Or a "hoist by your own petard" vibe.  And I think they may even be cross-pollinating, creating a "sauce for your own petard" vibe.


They did, but public school buildings are owned by the "public" - and that includes religious people who pay property taxes for them but don't send their kids to public schools.  So it's not quite the same thing.  You already knew this.  Schools are not private businesses.
 
2014-04-07 08:09:14 PM
Christophobia or any such hatred is sad. Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.

Buddha
 
2014-04-07 08:09:23 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Weaver95: as long as the ban applies to all religious groups across the board, I don't see a problem with it.

It does.

NY law says schools can be used for community purposes, but that all of those purposes must be non-exclusive and open to the public. In its policies, NYC contain a specific prohibition for using them for any and all religious promotions and services,


1. Pursuant to New York Educ. Law § 414 (McKinney 2002), a school district or local school board may permit school facilities to be used during nonschool hours for a wide variety of purposes, including:
holding social, civic and recreational meetings and entertainments, and other uses pertaining to the welfare of the community; but such meetings, entertainment and uses shall be non-exclusive and shall be open to the general public.
N.Y. Educ. Law § 414(1)(c).

County School District No. 10 adopted this standard as part of its Standard Operating Procedures (SOP). The district's SOP, however, adds a prohibition against the use of school property for "religious services or religious instruction," Bronx Household of Faith v. Board of Education (Bronx II), No. 01-Civ-8598


then the Christians are just being whiny.
 
2014-04-07 08:09:27 PM
But Christians threatening anyone who builds an Islamic social center in New York is still OK right?
 
2014-04-07 08:09:42 PM
Haven't read the thread, but BULLshiat. BULL farkING shiat. Go fark yourselves.
 
2014-04-07 08:10:35 PM
25.media.tumblr.com
24.media.tumblr.com
pictures.mastermarf.com

Dear Fox: I hope this gets my point across.

/submitted in triplicate.
 
2014-04-07 08:10:36 PM

Mithiwithi: Just for lulz, here's the New York Times article on the ruling. Fark: Bill de Blasio disagrees with the policy:

"I stand by my belief that a faith organization playing by the same rules as any community nonprofit deserves access," he said. "You know, they have to go through the same application process, wait their turn for space, pay the same rent. But I think they deserve access. They play a very, very important role in terms of providing social services and other important community services, and I think they deserve that right."

For the record, I personally find de Blasio's position here to be reasonable, up to a point. I also sympathize with the NYCLU's concerns about religious groups "dominating" access to school space after-hours, but there have to be ways to address those concerns short of a blanket ban.


Reasonable, except for the assumption that a "faith organization" is going to be providing "important community services" like calling for political action against minorities or other religions, planning a military compound, or handing cyanide-laced Flavor-Aid to young children.

Just because it's a religion -- Christian or not -- doesn't mean it's something good for the community or provides any sort of social services or relief. There are thousands of different kinds of Christianity, and a lot of those are violent and destructive.
 
2014-04-07 08:10:41 PM
Bah, forgot Fark bounces NYtimes links because they go paywall. Here's a tinyurl to it: http://tinyurl.com/ldlhwaa
 
2014-04-07 08:10:41 PM

oryx: The ban is constitutional, but I don't understand the purpose of the law. Nobody is using the school on Sundays so why not rent out the space. An atheist must have heard about the churches being there and caught the vapors.


Churches whine about rival churches far more than atheists ever do, if there's not a single dominant one. Eventually the powers that be get sick of it and declares that you all get nothing, good day sir.

/This is why we can't have nice things.
 
2014-04-07 08:10:44 PM

Danger Avoid Death: Gulper Eel: The Christian thing to do by way of reaction is, especially in New York City, to turn the other cheek but with a heaping helping of attitude: "You call THAT weak-ass shiat persecution? Here, hit me again. HIT ME AGAIN, YA HUMP."

Does anybody under 50 use "ya hump" any more? It's woefully underutilized.

[rlv.zcache.com image 324x324]


The last time I heard "hump" in a sentence someone called Wednesday Hump Day at work.  But I stabbed her to death with a plastic fork, so I haven't heard it since.
 
2014-04-07 08:11:57 PM
As a Muslim, If they allow church in a school on Sunday, We should allow the call to prayer every day.

Just schedule the school day around them and it won't inconvenience anyone. We will pray between periods.

As a Rastafarian, I should be able to smoke weed on school grounds.

As a member of the NRA, I should be able to open carry on school grounds.


/gotta allow all of the religions if you allow one.
 
2014-04-07 08:14:56 PM

DamnYankees: Esc7: Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?

I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.


Okay, I don't believe you're really a lawyer anymore. Every rental agreement I've ever signed has come with a list of otherwise-legal things you can't do. For example, it's legal to rent a car; it's legal to drive to Mexico...but last time I rented a car there was a specific clause prohibiting driving their car into Mexico.
 
2014-04-07 08:15:14 PM

foxyshadis: Churches whine about rival churches far more than atheists ever do, if there's not a single dominant one. Eventually the powers that be get sick of it and declares that you all get nothing, good day sir.


In my youth, I witnessed a major rift form between two Presbyterian churches in West Virginia after one church learned the other was using wafers instead of cubed bread for their occasional communion services.
 
2014-04-07 08:16:47 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: foxyshadis: Churches whine about rival churches far more than atheists ever do, if there's not a single dominant one. Eventually the powers that be get sick of it and declares that you all get nothing, good day sir.

In my youth, I witnessed a major rift form between two Presbyterian churches in West Virginia after one church learned the other was using wafers instead of cubed bread for their occasional communion services.


Ah, yes. The whole wheat thins vs. croutons schism.
 
2014-04-07 08:16:50 PM

svanmeter: Christophobia or any such hatred is sad. Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.

Buddha


the Christians just got told they don't have any special privileges is all, then they freaked the hell out.  I think the correct attitude here is to show mild disappointment at the inability of a certain segment of the christian population to behave like adults and just chill the f*ck out already.
 
2014-04-07 08:18:03 PM
"A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city."


www.clubdata.com.au
"If you ain't first, you're last"
 
2014-04-07 08:18:31 PM

Beowoolfie: Okay, I don't believe you're really a lawyer anymore. Every rental agreement I've ever signed has come with a list of otherwise-legal things you can't do. For example, it's legal to rent a car; it's legal to drive to Mexico...but last time I rented a car there was a specific clause prohibiting driving their car into Mexico.


1) This is a public school, not a private company.

2) It's illegal to discriminate against religious people even if you are a private company.
 
2014-04-07 08:20:51 PM
And this is said after they fought tooth and nail to stop Muslims from building a community center and the cops from doing random searches of black kids, really?
 
2014-04-07 08:22:04 PM

DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.


Two other people who passed the bar disagree with you, just saying.

/Fux noose should be happy that Muslims and Atheists can't rent the school either.
 
2014-04-07 08:25:54 PM

DamnYankees: Lsherm: DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.

Not if they refuse to rent to everybody.  At least that's my understanding.  There's also something about "compelling government interest" which one of the Fark lawyers can address, but that might not apply here.  I think that's the reasoning behind letting parochial schools use public buses.

I am a Fark lawyer. And I agree with you about renting to everybody. But the law seems to contemplate the opposite - that they will rent to everyone EXCEPT churches.


Not going to read the whole thread as it's probably just rife with BS..., but, if you read the article, the first sentence is:

A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings.

Anyone can rent the space, for secular uses, including a given religion/church(theoretically).  A dance, an easter egg hunt, a circus, a play, etc.

/ok, so I decided to at least search the thread to hit the relevant bits
//why firefox doesn't use f3 pisses me off, btw

DamnYankees: Ok but that's not what the law says here. The law in this case just flatly excludes religious organizations.


No.  It excludes religious services.  It's beginning to sound as if you're playing the persecution card, despite the evidence.

DamnYankees: I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.


That you fail to see a distinction is just that, your failing.

It's no different than a courthouse deciding to not allow a nativity scene(or any other religious displays), or cities that allow them from all religions.  The principle behind the choice is to demonstrate that there are no "favorites", to not even give the appearance by happenstance.

As for the other part of your post, No, almost all rentals have clauses of acceptable uses, whether it be as simple as "no smoking" or "no alcohol" to time limits on noise etc.  It's all at the owners discretion what they will allow.  In this case that's the city, so yeah, keeping up that separation of church and state thing can certainly be in their best interest if they choose to do so.  Most all renters, indeed, businesses at large, reserve the right to deny any given customer service for "no reason".  If they decide no, and give no explanation, you have no legal recourse.

In this case, they've simply decided that it's not worth any possible problems, not even perceived affiliations.
 
2014-04-07 08:26:27 PM

Weaver95: svanmeter: Christophobia or any such hatred is sad. Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.

Buddha

the Christians just got told they don't have any special privileges is all, then they freaked the hell out.  I think the correct attitude here is to show mild disappointment at the inability of a certain segment of the christian population to behave like adults and just chill the f*ck out already.


I was referring to the Christophobic comments displayed on this page. You will not be punished for your anger. You will be punished by your anger.

Buddah
 
2014-04-07 08:27:07 PM

fusillade762: By Todd Starnes

GOD DAMMIT. Can we get a farking "Starnes" tag already?

*deep breath*, OK, since I already made the click.

A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city.

Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.


You idiot. There is nothing illogical about his statements that you highlight.

**A city bans 4 legged pets.
**This makes dog owners 2nd class citizens.
**It is an assault on ALL 4 legged pet owners.

What's the problem with that logic?

Sure, this guy might be a complete tosser - I don't live in the USA, never heard of him. His article has an obvious pro-Christian agenda. But he is NOT BEING ILLOGICAL.

You attacked him on his logic and you are wrong. This is because you obviously have an anti-Christian agenda and therefore I find you also to be a tosser.
 
2014-04-07 08:28:36 PM

jjorsett: fusillade762: By Todd Starnes

GOD DAMMIT. Can we get a farking "Starnes" tag already?

*deep breath*, OK, since I already made the click.

A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city.

Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.

Okay, have it your way, they're exercising viewpoint discrimination against ALL religion. Does that make it somehow less of an assholeish position?


Religion is a CHOICE, herp derp
 
2014-04-07 08:30:04 PM
Submitter +6 for trolling.  (Low score for low degree of difficulty.)

This is likely to be overturned, unless there's some condition or something that the article didn't mention (which is actually extremely likely).  The Supreme Court has set recent precedents that religious organizations have the same access to public facilities as secular organization, and I think a notable decision was a case in New York state.

The thing that might differentiate this case is if holding actual services crosses the line to being an apparently government endorsement of a religion, but that seems a stretch to me.

Bottom line is, if religious organizations are not given the same right to rent public spaces that other organizations are, they are second-class organizations.  That's just as wrong as giving religions special privileges.
 
2014-04-07 08:35:00 PM

fluffy2097: As a Muslim, If they allow church in a school on Sunday, We should allow the call to prayer every day.

Just schedule the school day around them and it won't inconvenience anyone. We will pray between periods.


They already do.  You're conflating issues.  Students are allowed to pray in school.
 
2014-04-07 08:36:28 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Weaver95: as long as the ban applies to all religious groups across the board, I don't see a problem with it.

It does.

NY law says schools can be used for community purposes, but that all of those purposes must be non-exclusive and open to the public. In its policies, NYC contain a specific prohibition for using them for any and all religious promotions and services,


1. Pursuant to New York Educ. Law § 414 (McKinney 2002), a school district or local school board may permit school facilities to be used during nonschool hours for a wide variety of purposes, including:
holding social, civic and recreational meetings and entertainments, and other uses pertaining to the welfare of the community; but such meetings, entertainment and uses shall be non-exclusive and shall be open to the general public.
N.Y. Educ. Law § 414(1)(c).

County School District No. 10 adopted this standard as part of its Standard Operating Procedures (SOP). The district's SOP, however, adds a prohibition against the use of school property for "religious services or religious instruction," Bronx Household of Faith v. Board of Education (Bronx II), No. 01-Civ-8598


Bears repeating because people are blatantly ignoring it.  Implying religious services are non-exclusive, because they "welcome everyone" is like calling "I'm sorry that you're an asshole" an apology because it has the word "sorry".
 
2014-04-07 08:42:21 PM
A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city.

/No, it means that schools receive federal and state money, and the government can't support one faith officially by funding it. It also means, that schools are in the habit of teaching FACTS, not fiction. If you wish to stuff your children's heads with fear of demons, eternal damnation and being poked by tridents while they flay your skin of because jesus loves you, then by all means, there is a place that will teach exactly that. It's called church. Keep your fairy tales out of my school, and i wont come to your church and teach evolution.
 
2014-04-07 08:45:31 PM

DamnYankees: Beowoolfie: Okay, I don't believe you're really a lawyer anymore. Every rental agreement I've ever signed has come with a list of otherwise-legal things you can't do. For example, it's legal to rent a car; it's legal to drive to Mexico...but last time I rented a car there was a specific clause prohibiting driving their car into Mexico.

1) This is a public school, not a private company.

2) It's illegal to discriminate against religious people even if you are a private company.


You conveniently left off the quote I was responding to:

DamnYankees: If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.


An overly-broad and, in my experience, utterly incorrect statement. If you're really a lawyer, give me a citation for your state's rental contract laws that supports your claim. Well, or admit you phrased it poorly and quote me an hourly rate to perform the research I requested.

/For extra points, tell me which classic logical fallacy your response above belongs to.
 
2014-04-07 08:46:06 PM
FTFA: "When a school is converted to a church in this way, it sends a powerful message to students and the community at large that the government favors that particular church,"

Book 'em, Danno.
 
2014-04-07 08:46:08 PM

Confabulat: Just once, I'd think the people that have a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe could have something go their way.


/Ya, that seems to be working out well for the religious fundies in islam isn't it? They never die for their God for nothing. And he always saves them before they can be hurt...ive seen the videos. Must be all the snackbarring they do before a F15 drops a paveway on their heads.

/just saying. No disrespect to moderate fairy tale believers everywhere.
 
2014-04-07 08:55:55 PM
I imagine this applies to all hate groups, not just Christians.
 
2014-04-07 08:55:59 PM
While I am sure someone has already beat me to the punch, but no longer getting special treatment and instead receiving the same treatment does not make you second class. It makes you equal. If you choose to act without class after that, then it is your choice.
 
2014-04-07 08:56:37 PM

DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.


You're assuming Todd Starnes has accurately represented the nature of this law; a dubious proposition at best.
 
2014-04-07 08:58:37 PM
"When a school is converted to a church in this way, it sends a powerful message to students and the community at large that the government favors that particular church," executive director Donna Lieberman told The New York Times.


Wow. I wonder what religion Donna LIEBERMAN is? I wonder. Farking coont. Put her on a train.
 
2014-04-07 08:58:45 PM

omeganuepsilon: Lenny_da_Hog: Weaver95: as long as the ban applies to all religious groups across the board, I don't see a problem with it.

It does.

NY law says schools can be used for community purposes, but that all of those purposes must be non-exclusive and open to the public. In its policies, NYC contain a specific prohibition for using them for any and all religious promotions and services,


1. Pursuant to New York Educ. Law § 414 (McKinney 2002), a school district or local school board may permit school facilities to be used during nonschool hours for a wide variety of purposes, including:
holding social, civic and recreational meetings and entertainments, and other uses pertaining to the welfare of the community; but such meetings, entertainment and uses shall be non-exclusive and shall be open to the general public.
N.Y. Educ. Law § 414(1)(c).

County School District No. 10 adopted this standard as part of its Standard Operating Procedures (SOP). The district's SOP, however, adds a prohibition against the use of school property for "religious services or religious instruction," Bronx Household of Faith v. Board of Education (Bronx II), No. 01-Civ-8598

Bears repeating because people are blatantly ignoring it.  Implying religious services are non-exclusive, because they "welcome everyone" is like calling "I'm sorry that you're an asshole" an apology because it has the word "sorry".


Not all religious services are non-exclusive either.
 
2014-04-07 08:59:19 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I imagine this applies to all hate groups, not just Christians.

+1
/thread
 
2014-04-07 09:00:07 PM
"Do unto others" they were asking for it.
 
2014-04-07 09:01:35 PM
The people that would raise hell about Fartbongo the secret muslin allowing schools to be rented out for islamic services have a problem with this.
 
2014-04-07 09:01:36 PM

HectorSchwartz: "When a school is converted to a church in this way, it sends a powerful message to students and the community at large that the government favors that particular church," executive director Donna Lieberman told The New York Times.


Wow. I wonder what religion Donna LIEBERMAN is? I wonder. Farking coont. Put her on a train.


+1 to you, Mr. Schwartz.
 
2014-04-07 09:01:39 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-07 09:06:40 PM
uberhumor.com
 
2014-04-07 09:06:51 PM
So, wait, is there a "first" class of citizens that's allowed to misappropriate public resources for religious indoctrination purposes?

Because my suspicion is that this guy just can't count.
 
2014-04-07 09:10:07 PM
FTFA, "Somebody should explain to Ms. Lieberman that there's a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion."

BZZZZT.  Wrong.
 
2014-04-07 09:14:42 PM
1) I was forced to pray multiple times a day, every day in grade school. Strangely enough it was completely, 100% legal. Catholic school.
2) If these farktards want to pray in school, build your own schools!!!
3) OH WAIT, you could have religious services in religious buildings. Rent one of them. There are TONS of them.

/time to start taxing all religions. HAHAH HAHAHAH AHAHAHAH sigh
 
2014-04-07 09:17:09 PM

namatad: 3) OH WAIT, you could have religious services in religious buildings. Rent one of them. There are TONS of them.


It doesn't even need to be owned by a religious group.

I have a friend who owns a dance studio. She rents it out on Sundays to a small start-up church.
 
2014-04-07 09:22:30 PM
"When a school is converted to a church in this way, it sends a powerful message to students and the community at large that the government favors that particular church,"

That's funny, when my old high school started renting to a church for Sunday service and I learned they were having church on the gymnasium bleachers my first thought was, "What a sad church that can't even make it on their own" and "I farted there"

But hey, it sends a powerful message about government and stuff.
 
2014-04-07 09:23:11 PM

buckeyebrain: [ic.pics.livejournal.com image 350x355]


Furthermore:
www.godvscaesar.org
 
2014-04-07 09:27:12 PM
Todd Starnes op-ed.

1-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2014-04-07 09:27:36 PM
Yessss...

I feel the hate flowing strongly through you, Fark Religion Bigots...

Embrace the Dark Side...
 
hej
2014-04-07 09:39:37 PM

Dinki: You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?


Because his face s infinitely more punchable?
 
2014-04-07 09:40:04 PM

Rand's lacy underwear: buckeyebrain: [ic.pics.livejournal.com image 350x355]

Furthermore:
[www.godvscaesar.org image 850x695]


go go catholics !!!
and can we ban the SBC from having any say in society? PLEASE???
 
2014-04-07 09:51:04 PM

HectorSchwartz: "When a school is converted to a church in this way, it sends a powerful message to students and the community at large that the government favors that particular church," executive director Donna Lieberman told The New York Times.


Wow. I wonder what religion Donna LIEBERMAN is? I wonder. Farking coont. Put her on a train.


That's edgy...
 
2014-04-07 09:56:57 PM

Great_Milenko: Let me know when they're dragged out of their houses at 3:00 am and their entire neighborhood is burned down.  These people have no idea what persecution really is.


I like your idea and am willing to contribute some gasoline to the cause.
 
2014-04-07 10:00:16 PM
Fox is trolling again.  The way Christians behave lately, 2nd class would improve our collective status.
 
2014-04-07 10:02:25 PM

fluffy2097: As a Muslim, If they allow church in a school on Sunday, We should allow the call to prayer every day.

Just schedule the school day around them and it won't inconvenience anyone. We will pray between periods.

As a Rastafarian, I should be able to smoke weed on school grounds.

As a member of the NRA, I should be able to open carry on school grounds.


/gotta allow all of the religions if you allow one.


Don't be silly.  Being in the NRA isn't a religion.  It's a personal relationship with Charlton Heston.
 
2014-04-07 10:04:48 PM
My first thought was that, if the school is indeed renting out its space to any organization, then why the hell not let the religious folks rent it as well?  After all, the Fox article does say that they were trying to rent the space....and a lot of  posters here assumed that that little bit of misinformation in the article was accurate.

However, the actual ruling (
http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/isysquery/031b00c0-dcc8-4ac9- 8bb 9-6176fae4d163/2/doc/12-2730_complete_opn.pdf ) explicitly states:

Extended use, which requires a permit issued by the Board, is subsidized in that no rent is charged for use of the school facilities. Reg. I.Q. provides: "No permit shall be granted for the purpose of holding religious worship services, or otherwise using a school as a house of worship."

So, unless I'm missing something here, the religious organization wasn't trying to rent the facilities...they were trying to use them for free, except maybe for the cost of cleaning up the joint after its use.

In that case, I have to side with the ruling.  I don't want my taxes being used to subsidize churches.
 
2014-04-07 10:04:53 PM

KenShabby: fluffy2097: As a Muslim, If they allow church in a school on Sunday, We should allow the call to prayer every day.

Just schedule the school day around them and it won't inconvenience anyone. We will pray between periods.

As a Rastafarian, I should be able to smoke weed on school grounds.

As a member of the NRA, I should be able to open carry on school grounds.


/gotta allow all of the religions if you allow one.

Don't be silly.  Being in the NRA isn't a religion.  It's a personal relationship with Charlton Heston.


Just a man and his chair.
 
2014-04-07 10:09:05 PM
Sadly, I have to say is GOOD! Christians - (and other religious groups) have their comeuppance. For many hundreds of years, they have aggressively suppressed and hounded anyone who didn't conform to their "system" or fall in line with their beliefs. They now complain that they are being oppressed? What hypocrites, did not their own bible warn against that? I as a non-Cristian have been pressured and threatened by Christians for my beliefs. (Which by the way - require total acceptance of one's own wrong doings and doesn't allow for "divine forgiveness.") So many- Christians (believe) they can do what they want because there is no personal responsibility for their bad doings.. While - we - fully accept that if we do evil we must pay for such deeds... And therefore we are less likely to be evil... I am sad that I have come across many Christians that truly believe they can get away with anything because they "believe," without any sort of actual "payment." Yes, I am ranting...

/Strangely, I once rented a duplex to a "fundamentalist Christian family..." They initially thought I was better than sliced white bread, as I appeared to live a "good live" until they found out that I was a pagan. So - I, who deny the concept of "divine forgiveness," and believe in full payment for one's bad deeds... Was originally though as a "pious and penitent and pure" individual was suddenly an evil demon devil in their eyes... - At least they remained cordial and didn't break the lease.
//Yes, I have a negative issues with Christians due to a number of encounters with some of them.
 
2014-04-07 10:09:45 PM
 Wait, is this the type of persecution where they are being treated differently than everyone else, or the kind where they are being treated the same as everyone else.
So hard to tell these days.
 
2014-04-07 10:12:07 PM
If I were them (and I know, I am not) I would rename the church, "The Community Book Club", and continue to rent out the school as a club.

I can easily hear the answers to some common questions:

Q: Why are you preaching? You can't preach in a school.
A: We aren't preaching, we are discussing.

Q: You've been discussing the Bible for three months now...I think you're a church!
A: No, we're just slow readers.

XD
 
2014-04-07 10:12:39 PM
wait! wait! let me get this straight. only having 2 brain cells left I tend to... So that means, that means,, If I'm a
Christian Vegan butcher, I HAVE to sell a nice pork loin to two gay Jewish men for their Easter Dinner. Am I right!
 
2014-04-07 10:17:15 PM

EasilyDistracted: My first thought was that, if the school is indeed renting out its space to any organization, then why the hell not let the religious folks rent it as well?  After all, the Fox article does say that they were trying to rent the space....and a lot of  posters here assumed that that little bit of misinformation in the article was accurate.

However, the actual ruling (http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/isysquery/031b00c0-dcc8-4ac9- 8bb 9-6176fae4d163/2/doc/12-2730_complete_opn.pdf ) explicitly states:

Extended use, which requires a permit issued by the Board, is subsidized in that no rent is charged for use of the school facilities. Reg. I.Q. provides: "No permit shall be granted for the purpose of holding religious worship services, or otherwise using a school as a house of worship."

So, unless I'm missing something here, the religious organization wasn't trying to rent the facilities...they were trying to use them for free, except maybe for the cost of cleaning up the joint after its use.

In that case, I have to side with the ruling.  I don't want my taxes being used to subsidize churches.


Read the whole thing again.  It seems they are denying extended use specifically to religious organizations.  Which almost makes sense, except the people who they ruled against paid taxes to support the school regardless of whether or not they had kids in the school, just like other organizations who got extended use permits.
 
2014-04-07 10:21:12 PM
Here is a handy guide:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-emily-c-heath/how-to-determine-if- yo ur-religious-liberty-is-being-threatened-in-10-questions_b_1845413.htm l

The relevant question being:

7. My religious liberty is at risk because:
A) My religious group is not allowed equal protection under the establishment clause.
B) My religious group is not allowed to use public funds, buildings and resources as we would like, for whatever purposes we might like.
 
2014-04-07 10:22:52 PM

DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.


Telling the churches that they don't get to use schools to preach their religion is unconstitutional?

/farking idiot
 
2014-04-07 10:25:07 PM

MrBentor: Sadly, I have to say is GOOD! Christians - (and other religious groups) have their comeuppance. For many hundreds of years, they have aggressively suppressed and hounded anyone who didn't conform to their "system" or fall in line with their beliefs. They now complain that they are being oppressed? What hypocrites, did not their own bible warn against that? I as a non-Cristian have been pressured and threatened by Christians for my beliefs. (Which by the way - require total acceptance of one's own wrong doings and doesn't allow for "divine forgiveness.") So many- Christians (believe) they can do what they want because there is no personal responsibility for their bad doings.. While - we - fully accept that if we do evil we must pay for such deeds... And therefore we are less likely to be evil... I am sad that I have come across many Christians that truly believe they can get away with anything because they "believe," without any sort of actual "payment." Yes, I am ranting...

/Strangely, I once rented a duplex to a "fundamentalist Christian family..." They initially thought I was better than sliced white bread, as I appeared to live a "good live" until they found out that I was a pagan. So - I, who deny the concept of "divine forgiveness," and believe in full payment for one's bad deeds... Was originally though as a "pious and penitent and pure" individual was suddenly an evil demon devil in their eyes... - At least they remained cordial and didn't break the lease.
//Yes, I have a negative issues with Christians due to a number of encounters with some of them.



While I've got no moral qualms about punishing specific people who may be guilty of persecution, collective punishment (or, at least collective schadenfreude) is way down on my list of moral-acceptability.  If a specific Christian is being hypocritical, then by all means, subject him/her to ridicule -- but if it's just a bunch of ordinary people who are meeting to discuss, then dial-back the hate.  Just as the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, neither are the vast majority of Christians militant assholes.

/ I don't really consider myself a believer
// but I was raised around it -- even did a year in Catholic school
 
2014-04-07 10:28:29 PM

AliceBToklasLives: Wouldn't renting space for worship (of any religion) be a good way for poor schools to raise a little dough?

/as others have pointed out, I don't see how this rule makes Christians in particular second-class citizens, since it bans religious worship, not just Christians


Ever tried "renting" anything to a religious organization? They expect donations. Actually paying money for a service is a foreign concept.
 
2014-04-07 10:34:26 PM
heahea.org
 
2014-04-07 10:41:16 PM

automaticman: Ever tried "renting" anything to a religious organization?


funnypicturesandstuff.com
 
2014-04-07 11:00:35 PM
Todd Starnes. Leaping from invented controversy to invented controversy. If he moves fast enough, people can't do enough research on his last controversy to prove him full of shiat, before they are dealing with the next one. I mean, is anyone asking him how the child who was yelled at for praying last week just happens to be his book publisher's daughter? Nope. On to NYC. By the time this is proven bullshiat, he will be onto how liberal union workers seem to have no qualms isolating the Asian food in its own aisle in the supermarket. By the time people point out that it's as dumb as his "Hispanic cheese" column. He'll be on about how an atheist blogger in Oregon once mocked Bristol Palin for being slutty.

He is the platonic ideal of the Gish Gallop.
 
2014-04-07 11:01:00 PM

jjorsett: Okay, have it your way, they're exercising viewpoint discrimination against ALL religion. Does that make it somehow less of an assholeish position?


Sure, wouldn't it? At least marginally.

Compare "There will be no religious services in this building" with "There will be no Muslim services in this building." You can argue both bans would be inappropriate, but at least one isn't being partisan.
 
2014-04-07 11:05:53 PM
I'd say Todd Starnes deserves brain cancer, but that would require him to have a brain first.
 
2014-04-07 11:06:39 PM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: Evangelical Christians don't get to make all the rules and tell everyone else what to do so now they're oppressed.

It's like that big fat kid who keeps hitting everyone and someone tells him he can't do it anymore and he starts crying.


The Evangelical movement = Cartman?
 
2014-04-07 11:14:43 PM
I'm surprised didn't embellish his reportage:

"When a school is converted to a church in this way, it sends a powerful message to students and the community at large that the government favors that particular church," executive director Donna Lieberman told the New York Times."  Lieberman returned to devouring her lunch of a stew composed of red potatoes, vegetables and body parts of Christian babies.
 
2014-04-07 11:17:13 PM
DNRTFA, in fact I barely read the headline, but is it because of the JEWS?
 
2014-04-07 11:17:23 PM

Dirty J1: Religion doesn't belong in school, for any reason, pure and simple. Keep that in designated religious buildings and your own homes.
Or rent a community center. Stay the hell out of schools.


You must also be really big into homeopathy if you're worried about the lingering effects of letting religious organizations hold meetings in otherwise vacant buildings on weekends.  The only effect this has on any students at the school at all is to put the rent collected toward their after school activities programs.

I knew of one church that met at a middle school on weekends for lack of a building.  Otherwise, I am mostly aware of schools holding their graduations or other ceremonies in local churches. Was true of every elementary school and middle school ceremony I ever attended.  For mine, a friend specifically wore a pentagram to tick them off, but no one from the church was there to care, they were just offering the building.  I'm not aware that these churches ever charged the schools.  But we should probably outlaw letting schools use churches, too, in order to keep the religious cooties from spreading.
 
2014-04-07 11:24:52 PM

Local School Rents Space to Scary Mooselimbs; Wingnuts Outraged

 
2014-04-07 11:25:16 PM

OnlyMeanWitchesAreUgly: If I were them (and I know, I am not) I would rename the church, "The Community Book Club", and continue to rent out the school as a club.

I can easily hear the answers to some common questions:

Q: Why are you preaching? You can't preach in a school.
A: We aren't preaching, we are discussing.

Q: You've been discussing the Bible for three months now...I think you're a church!
A: No, we're just slow readers.

XD


They don't really want people actually reading the bible. They might get ideas about how slavery is ok, women are inferior, teenagers who are disobedient must be stoned to death, raping and pillaging is fine, etc.

They just want to yap for a while and then pass around the "separate the fools from their money" basket.
 
2014-04-07 11:35:24 PM
Seems like whenever Christians aren't being allowed to trample the rights of others, they're whining about imagined slights against themselves.
 
2014-04-07 11:36:52 PM
i118.photobucket.com

/Sometimes img1.fark.net doesn't cut it
 
2014-04-07 11:45:51 PM

Dinki: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x230]

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?


Because he's white, male, and heterosexual?
 
2014-04-07 11:48:51 PM

buckeyebrain: [ic.pics.livejournal.com image 350x355]


I am the son and heir of nothing in particular, so I'm really getting a kick out of your pie graph.
 
2014-04-07 11:49:16 PM
I want to see an atheist group try to rent the space now so we can legal precedent on wither or not it';s a religion.
 
2014-04-07 11:54:02 PM
STFU OR WE WILL BRING BACK THE LIONS, YOU SELFISH ASSHOLES.
 
2014-04-07 11:54:17 PM

genner: I want to see an atheist group try to rent the space now so we can legal precedent on wither or not it';s a religion.


What worship services do they have?
 
2014-04-07 11:59:31 PM

Truther: Yessss...

I feel the hate flowing strongly through you, Fark Religion Bigots...


The Derp is strong with this one.
 
2014-04-08 12:05:35 AM

Fart_Machine: genner: I want to see an atheist group try to rent the space now so we can legal precedent on wither or not it';s a religion.

What worship services do they have?


They get us confused with satanists for some reason constantly.
 
2014-04-08 12:10:47 AM

meat0918: Fart_Machine: genner: I want to see an atheist group try to rent the space now so we can legal precedent on wither or not it';s a religion.

What worship services do they have?

They get us confused with satanists for some reason constantly.


You guys forgot about this already.....


www.theblaze.com
 
2014-04-08 12:32:40 AM

Fart_Machine: genner: I want to see an atheist group try to rent the space now so we can legal precedent on wither or not it';s a religion.

What worship services do they have?


Football. Much better use of Sundays.
 
2014-04-08 12:49:37 AM

gaspode: BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.

Is there an amendment banning government from establishing chess or basket-weaving?


So if they rent it out to a chess club they're establishing chess?

The ruling doesn't prohibit them from letting churches use their facilities.  It simply says that they can if they want to.
 
2014-04-08 12:59:39 AM
If they are renting it, who cares?
 
2014-04-08 01:00:28 AM
i651.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-08 01:37:30 AM

genner: meat0918: Fart_Machine: genner: I want to see an atheist group try to rent the space now so we can legal precedent on wither or not it';s a religion.

What worship services do they have?

They get us confused with satanists for some reason constantly.

You guys forgot about this already.....


[www.theblaze.com image 620x371]


Hard to forget something I never heard about.

But then I'm on the west coast and would attend such a gathering as soon as I wanted to waste an hour on some arbitrary morning sitting in a building for no discernible reason other than to socialize.

I can do that in the evening at the bar, with friends, and we can talk about how bad ESO is, how the Ducks are doing (well they can, I'm not a sports guy),  how it's already warmer than we're used to for April, and dozens of other things without going all godless or godful on each other.
 
2014-04-08 02:01:49 AM

BSABSVR: Leaping from invented controversy to invented controversy


This is such an "invented controversy" that it's been going through the court system for years and finally appears to be finished with a 2-1 decision.

Okay.

You don't have to agree with him, but this has had quite a life for being merely "invented"
 
2014-04-08 02:05:49 AM

OnlyMeanWitchesAreUgly: If I were them (and I know, I am not) I would rename the church, "The Community Book Club", and continue to rent out the school as a club.

I can easily hear the answers to some common questions:

Q: Why are you preaching? You can't preach in a school.
A: We aren't preaching, we are discussing.

Q: You've been discussing the Bible for three months now...I think you're a church!
A: No, we're just slow readers.

XD


Well, it is a long book...

CSS: When I was in high school, I attended the first meeting of a Bible study group, just out of curiosity. (It was a public school, but a student-organized group, so I don't know where that might have fallen, legally. But whatever.) I foolishly thought we'd, you know, study the Bible.

The session consisted almost entirely of "witnessing" and a group prayer. I do not remember getting a reading assignment or anything. At that rate of "study," the Bible could stretch out for centuries.

I didn't go back.

/CSS
 
2014-04-08 02:23:28 AM
If there were only a place, perhaps one suggested in the Bible that one could worship the lord.
 
2014-04-08 02:35:33 AM

Stoker: If there were only a place, perhaps one suggested in the Bible that one could worship the lord.


Hell, if there were, I'd even say to make it exempt from property taxes just to get them out of public buildings.
 
2014-04-08 03:24:30 AM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-08 03:30:38 AM
Waiting ...waiting ...waiting ...
i560.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-08 03:57:04 AM

cwheelie: for the love of FSM, DON'T READ THE COMMENTS!
I swear my IQ dropped 8-10 points and it was never that high to begin with


Noooooo :(

Your comment made me look *tries to poke his own eyes out* it was like watching a car crash, I could not look away.

*hands in his MENSA membership, no longer worthy*
 
2014-04-08 05:23:21 AM

FormatSlacker: Dirty J1: Religion doesn't belong in school, for any reason, pure and simple. Keep that in designated religious buildings and your own homes.
Or rent a community center. Stay the hell out of schools.

You must also be really big into homeopathy if you're worried about the lingering effects of letting religious organizations hold meetings in otherwise vacant buildings on weekends.  The only effect this has on any students at the school at all is to put the rent collected toward their after school activities programs.

I knew of one church that met at a middle school on weekends for lack of a building.  Otherwise, I am mostly aware of schools holding their graduations or other ceremonies in local churches. Was true of every elementary school and middle school ceremony I ever attended.  For mine, a friend specifically wore a pentagram to tick them off, but no one from the church was there to care, they were just offering the building.  I'm not aware that these churches ever charged the schools.  But we should probably outlaw letting schools use churches, too, in order to keep the religious cooties from spreading.


It's astounding that someone can use the arguments the ACLU has used to justify this, e.g. favoring one religion over others. Renting out the facility is a great way to bring in more revenue and doesnt favor a particular group necessarily. This is not manufactured by Fox, it's one more step on the road to stupid in New York.
 
2014-04-08 05:31:02 AM

FormatSlacker: we should probably outlaw letting schools use churches, too, in order to keep the religious cooties from spreading.


Naa. What we *should* do is stop embedding legal protections for mass delusional idjits who get their collective knickers in a knot when challenged over their imaginary sky faeries...

It's like legislating the nieces right to throw a tantrum over not getting a unicorn for her birthday..
 
2014-04-08 05:31:55 AM

Animatronik: FormatSlacker: Dirty J1: Religion doesn't belong in school, for any reason, pure and simple. Keep that in designated religious buildings and your own homes.
Or rent a community center. Stay the hell out of schools.

You must also be really big into homeopathy if you're worried about the lingering effects of letting religious organizations hold meetings in otherwise vacant buildings on weekends.  The only effect this has on any students at the school at all is to put the rent collected toward their after school activities programs.

I knew of one church that met at a middle school on weekends for lack of a building.  Otherwise, I am mostly aware of schools holding their graduations or other ceremonies in local churches. Was true of every elementary school and middle school ceremony I ever attended.  For mine, a friend specifically wore a pentagram to tick them off, but no one from the church was there to care, they were just offering the building.  I'm not aware that these churches ever charged the schools.  But we should probably outlaw letting schools use churches, too, in order to keep the religious cooties from spreading.

It's astounding that someone can use the arguments the ACLU has used to justify this, e.g. favoring one religion over others. Renting out the facility is a great way to bring in more revenue and doesnt favor a particular group necessarily. This is not manufactured by Fox, it's one more step on the road to stupid in New York.


I got the impression it was about religious service.  If a religious group wants to rent the room for a birthday party or a social group meeting then they are more than welcome.  Its about using a public school room as a church that is the problem.

I once lived on a small island, we had no church, but we did have a school and a community club (which was really the local cyclone shelter.)  The club was used on Sundays for church services, not the school.  If these churches need a place to worship then rent out a local council building for the purpose and not the local school.
 
2014-04-08 05:49:20 AM

ilikeracecars: Let us break down the headline/quote:
Not just Christians. Not officially. They aren't being treated like second class citizens, and its the most populated city, not the largest.

So, head line should read:
have beome in the nation's city


wat
 
2014-04-08 06:15:36 AM
fusillade762:
Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.

No, he's right.  Only Christians are religious.

Just like how they play "Holiday Music" around the end of the year, when it's all Christmas music.  It's a passive-aggressive way to put everyone else down while pretending to be all-encompassing.
 
2014-04-08 06:15:57 AM
If the church in question is collecting from its flock tax free, it can rent an office or storefront.
 
2014-04-08 06:46:44 AM
As ye sow, so shall ye reap, futhermuckers. It's been a long time coming. Too long, actually. With your ludicrous worship of a white hipster supposedly born of middle-easterners with the unlikely names of Mary and Joseph, who gathered around his self friends with equally oddly anglo- sounding names like Mark, Peter, Thomas, Paul, Luke, Leia, and Hans. Really, your entire religion fairly screams "naivete" to anybody with a modicum of common sense. Your "god," as described in your own holy book, is the penultimate negligent parent, and your worship of it reeks of desperation. The fact that you have worked yourselves up to such fervor as to wage wars based upon your imaginary friend is all the proof rational adults need of the levels you are willing to stoop to.
 
2014-04-08 07:56:37 AM

buckeyebrain:


Nothing in particular, but atheist is already represented... Wait, what?
 
2014-04-08 08:13:49 AM
Seemed applicable for some odd reason today. from licd.com

www.leasticoulddo.com
 
2014-04-08 08:15:52 AM

indylaw: If the church in question is collecting from its flock tax free, it can rent an office or storefront.


You haven't seen what one tends to collect.  most congregation members are stingy bastards. After power bills etc, there's not much left for the pastor's income at some places.
 
2014-04-08 08:21:24 AM

cwheelie: for the love of FSM, DON'T READ THE COMMENTS!
I swear my IQ dropped 8-10 points and it was never that high to begin with


Good, now repeat after me:

Jesus loves me
   This I know,
For the Bible
   Tells me so.

Little ones
   To Him belong,
We are weak
   But He is strong!
 
2014-04-08 08:34:27 AM

Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.


Their god got nailed to a stick. A real god would have leveled Jerusalem.
 
2014-04-08 08:41:03 AM

reprobate1125: Dirty J1: Religion doesn't belong in school, for any reason, pure and simple. Keep that in designated religious buildings and your own homes.
Or rent a community center. Stay the hell out of schools.

I get that...and if they ban all religious groups, as a Christian, I don't take it personally.

I just think it's dumb to have buildings sit empty.  I think those buildings should be used 7 days a week.

I also think churches should be used 7 days a week. If you meet on Sunday, rent your building to an adventist group that meets on Saturday.


And on Fridays, rent to Muslims. I don't think the Scientologists have a special day, so they can have Monday.
 
2014-04-08 08:48:16 AM

Mirandized: And on Fridays, rent to Muslims. I don't think the Scientologists have a special day, so they can have Monday.


No magic day? How can you call something a religion without a magic day!

I'm calling it ... Scientology is fake. They don't have real magic like the other religions.
 
2014-04-08 09:02:49 AM

timswar: Valiente: Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.

Obligatory "your god hung from nails, my god owns a farking hammer" meme here.

Oh whatever, my god only had to hang for three days. Yours had to hang for nine.

"Even in sin you're paying retail" - Jon Stewart


I know. That was sort of the point. Religion is sports fandom with slightly more genital mutilation and stupid hats.
 
2014-04-08 09:04:35 AM
OMG I can't believe this, finally a case of real oppression!!

*RTFA*

*brain explodes from hyperboyle*
 
2014-04-08 09:06:30 AM

EnderWiggnz: Dinki: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x230]

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?

because he can't straighten his glasses for a head shot?


His glasses aren't the problem--his head is lopsided.
 
2014-04-08 09:06:47 AM

reprobate1125: Dirty J1: Religion doesn't belong in school, for any reason, pure and simple. Keep that in designated religious buildings and your own homes.
Or rent a community center. Stay the hell out of schools.

I get that...and if they ban all religious groups, as a Christian, I don't take it personally.

I just think it's dumb to have buildings sit empty.  I think those buildings should be used 7 days a week.

I also think churches should be used 7 days a week. If you meet on Sunday, rent your building to an adventist group that meets on Saturday.


I think churches should be taxed like every other corporation. Can I hear an Amen?
 
2014-04-08 09:07:00 AM

Valiente: timswar: Valiente: Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.

Obligatory "your god hung from nails, my god owns a farking hammer" meme here.

Oh whatever, my god only had to hang for three days. Yours had to hang for nine.

"Even in sin you're paying retail" - Jon Stewart

I know. That was sort of the point. Religion is sports fandom with slightly more genital mutilation and stupid hats.


The hats are awesome. You say what you want about the sports fandom but do not dis those fantastic hats.
 
2014-04-08 09:13:49 AM

timswar: Valiente: timswar: Valiente: Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.

Obligatory "your god hung from nails, my god owns a farking hammer" meme here.

Oh whatever, my god only had to hang for three days. Yours had to hang for nine.

"Even in sin you're paying retail" - Jon Stewart

I know. That was sort of the point. Religion is sports fandom with slightly more genital mutilation and stupid hats.

The hats are awesome. You say what you want about the sports fandom but do not dis those fantastic hats.


"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hats, eternal in the Greater Tri-city Area."
 
2014-04-08 09:14:35 AM
The New York CLU says that the existence of church services in a public building sends the message that the government endorses that religion. This is stretching Engel v. Vitale and the Lemon Test to a ridiculous degree. How would anyone be aware of the "endorsement" without attending the services? It's not like they're putting up a sign outside saying "Jesus is Lord, Pastor Cletus Kadiddlefark presiding." Are people in New York so sensitive that the sight of people arriving at a school building on a Sunday morning is going to make them fear there's an established church in America?

Meanwhile, in Georgia, the ACLU is constantly having to remind local governments not to discriminate against churches (not because they're anti-Christian; they're just stupid).
 
2014-04-08 09:16:00 AM

fusillade762: By Todd Starnes

GOD DAMMIT. Can we get a farking "Starnes" tag already?

*deep breath*, OK, since I already made the click.

A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city.

Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.


You're free to choose any number of ways to worship Jesus Christ as your savior.
 
2014-04-08 09:16:59 AM

DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.


Not any more, apparently.
 
2014-04-08 09:18:08 AM

svanmeter: Christophobia or any such hatred is sad. Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.

Buddha


I'm not at all afraid of Christ. Actually, has anybody seen him around? Based on the stories he seemed like a nice guy.
 
2014-04-08 09:23:49 AM

trappedspirit: "When a school is converted to a church in this way, it sends a powerful message to students and the community at large that the government favors that particular church,"

That's funny, when my old high school started renting to a church for Sunday service and I learned they were having church on the gymnasium bleachers my first thought was, "What a sad church that can't even make it on their own" and "I farted there"

But hey, it sends a powerful message about government and stuff.


Yes, to thinking adults.
 
2014-04-08 09:38:30 AM
FTA:  "Somebody should explain to Ms. Lieberman that there's a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion. "

No, not really.  Freedom of religion has to include NONE of the ABOVE.

If not, the implication is everyone MUST pick a religion.
 
2014-04-08 09:39:42 AM
Next up on Fox: Muslims may try to hold "prayer session" terrorism meetings in our schools! Demand that the government stop them!
 
2014-04-08 11:06:01 AM
It's a slippery slope guys....

When religious gatherings are outlawed in schools only outlaws in school will have religious gatherings...

...I think?
 
2014-04-08 11:09:16 AM
fusillade762:

[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

Sadly, I don't know the reference.  I'm sure it's quite clever, though.
 
2014-04-08 01:13:44 PM

Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.


I think I need a tee shirt for that one
 
2014-04-08 01:25:40 PM

Marcus Aurelius: You're free to choose any number of ways to worship Jesus Christ as your savior.



I'm sure you meant to type FSM there...or that Satan fellow. What a pleasant gent. Only a wee bit rape-y and given to bouts of interesting violence. Quite Old Testament, actually, if you're into that. Then there's the rockin' party duo, Thor and Bachas. What a combo.


Who, exactly, saved us from what, exactly?


Xtians. The other sad, self-delusional, dingbats crying about how nobody gives them special treatment for their dementia.
 
2014-04-08 01:46:36 PM
Late to the game and don't want to get in the middle of the fight between the holy rollers and the sane people but I really do want to know was the church using the school for free?
 
2014-04-08 03:44:19 PM

DamnYankees: Lsherm: DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.

Not if they refuse to rent to everybody.  At least that's my understanding.  There's also something about "compelling government interest" which one of the Fark lawyers can address, but that might not apply here.  I think that's the reasoning behind letting parochial schools use public buses.

I am a Fark lawyer. And I agree with you about renting to everybody. But the law seems to contemplate the opposite - that they will rent to everyone EXCEPT churches.


Note the language of the law - Churches. Not Mosques, Temples, or Synagogues. Churches. That language is meant to target a subset of religious people, and prevent them from doing what others can freely do, and that is patently unconstitutional.
 
2014-04-08 04:00:33 PM
Basically no one is allowed to hold a religious service at the school. They can rent the space for any other reason they want whether they are religious or secular. I don't see how this is unequal. Everyone has the same restrictions.
 
2014-04-08 04:20:05 PM
washington-babylon:
Note the language of the law - Churches. Not Mosques, Temples, or Synagogues. Churches. That language is meant to target a subset of religious people, and prevent them from doing what others can freely do, and that is patently unconstitutional.

Are you actually suggesting that you think that they would allow a muslim leader to set up a religious service in the same gym that they just got a ruling stopping christians from setting up religious services??

Seriously? Because that would be the dumbest thing posted on Fark today.

/Think about it ... there is a lot of epic stupidity posted every day and you're gonna win this round.
 
2014-04-08 05:35:32 PM

washington-babylon: DamnYankees: Lsherm: DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.

Not if they refuse to rent to everybody.  At least that's my understanding.  There's also something about "compelling government interest" which one of the Fark lawyers can address, but that might not apply here.  I think that's the reasoning behind letting parochial schools use public buses.

I am a Fark lawyer. And I agree with you about renting to everybody. But the law seems to contemplate the opposite - that they will rent to everyone EXCEPT churches.

Note the language of the law - Churches. Not Mosques, Temples, or Synagogues. Churches. That language is meant to target a subset of religious people, and prevent them from doing what others can freely do, and that is patently unconstitutional.


Citation needed.

/from what I've gathered, it's "religious services" not churches.
//Thread went full derp, something that should never happen
 
2014-04-08 09:11:33 PM
If the mole-hill won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed will just have to go to the mole-hill.
 
2014-04-08 09:20:00 PM

omeganuepsilon: washington-babylon: DamnYankees: Lsherm: DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.

Not if they refuse to rent to everybody.  At least that's my understanding.  There's also something about "compelling government interest" which one of the Fark lawyers can address, but that might not apply here.  I think that's the reasoning behind letting parochial schools use public buses.

I am a Fark lawyer. And I agree with you about renting to everybody. But the law seems to contemplate the opposite - that they will rent to everyone EXCEPT churches.

Note the language of the law - Churches. Not Mosques, Temples, or Synagogues. Churches. That language is meant to target a subset of religious people, and prevent them from doing what others can freely do, and that is patently unconstitutional.

Citation needed.

/from what I've gathered, it's "religious services" not churches.
//Thread went full derp, something that should never happen


Per Lenny_da_hog,

Lenny_da_Hog: Weaver95: as long as the ban applies to all religious groups across the board, I don't see a problem with it.
It does.
NY law says schools can be used for community purposes, but that all of those purposes must be non-exclusive and open to the public. In its policies, NYC contain a specific prohibition for using them for any and all religious promotions and services,

1. Pursuant to New York Educ. Law § 414 (McKinney 2002), a school district or local school board may permit school facilities to be used during nonschool hours for a wide variety of purposes, including:
holding social, civic and recreational meetings and entertainments, and other uses pertaining to the welfare of the community; but such meetings, entertainment and uses shall be non-exclusive and shall be open to the general public.
N.Y. Educ. Law § 414(1)(c).
County School District No. 10 adopted this standard as part of its Standard Operating Procedures (SOP). The district's SOP, however, adds a prohibition against the use of school property for "religious services or religious instruction," Bronx Household of Faith v. Board of Education (Bronx II), No. 01-Civ-8598
 
2014-04-08 09:25:54 PM
Unlikely tag out to lunch?
 
2014-04-08 09:47:20 PM
It's been said here before, but it bears repeating:  Starnes has the most punchable face ever.
 
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