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(Fox News)   "Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city"   (foxnews.com) divider line 277
    More: Sad, New York City, second-class citizen, John Walker, National Association of Evangelicals, largest school districts, New York Civil Liberties Union, compelling government interest  
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17916 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2014 at 7:17 PM (20 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



277 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-07 07:33:26 PM

firefly212: DamnYankees: Esc7: Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?

I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.

The distinction may be that the school only rents to third parties in furtherance of some educational interest.


That's not the ruling. You can hold a meeting to discuss why the earth is flat so long as you don't bring up God.
 
2014-04-07 07:33:43 PM

Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.


Obligatory "your god hung from nails, my god owns a farking hammer" meme here.
 
2014-04-07 07:34:37 PM

BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.


Is there an amendment banning government from establishing chess or basket-weaving?
 
2014-04-07 07:34:54 PM

twistedmetal: When god smites the city, just remember not to turn around to look.


Indeed. You might realize you're in Jersey, though frankly, the smell is a big hint.
 
2014-04-07 07:35:12 PM
I hope this guy has some he can sell me. He must get very good stuff. Why else would you say that about a city:

In which 70% of the population claim to be Christians.

That is home to over 6,000 churches including this guy who is the 4th largest Christian Church in the world.
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-07 07:35:27 PM

stewbert: But do the schools rent space to AA meetings?


I'm guessing, not any more...
 
2014-04-07 07:35:41 PM

Dinki: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x230]

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?


because he can't straighten his glasses for a head shot?
 
2014-04-07 07:36:14 PM

gaspode: BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.

Is there an amendment banning government from establishing chess or basket-weaving?


If the government rents it out to whoever wants it the establishment clause doesn't apply.
 
2014-04-07 07:36:16 PM

fusillade762: Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.


It still works... If, in fact, all religious groups would receive the same response, and one accepts the idea that this ruling makes religious groups second-class citizens, then as a subset of the category "religious" Christians become second-class citizens.  Similarly with the idea of an assault on religious freedom.  An assault on the whole, in this case, also assaults the subset.
 
2014-04-07 07:36:22 PM

Esc7: DamnYankees: Esc7: Could it be the worship services part? That the church is allowed to rent for events but not worship services?

I fail to see the distinction. If you rent a room, you can do whatever the fark you want in there as long as its not otherwise illegal.

I agree which is why I'm confused. How can you even detect worship? It almost literally happens entirely inside your head.

I could be praying RIGHT NOW.


That's like the Quakers, they just sit around looking at each other until..........errrrr.........moved by the Holy ghost.
 
2014-04-07 07:36:27 PM
Second class? Glad to see you guys finally moving up in the world.
 
2014-04-07 07:36:41 PM

Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.


I'm a Christian. I believe Godnisnt weak. I believe that if God wanted to God could intervene and prevent this from happening.

Thus, I am left with the conclussion that either God supports this decision or just doesn't care one way or another about a city trying to keep their schools secular.

Frankly, I like my version of God a lot better than their version. My version isn't an asshole.
 
2014-04-07 07:37:31 PM

The_Philosopher_King: I hope this guy has some he can sell me. He must get very good stuff. Why else would you say that about a city:

In which 70% of the population claim to be Christians.

That is home to over 6,000 churches including this guy who is the 4th largest Christian Church in the world.
[img.fark.net image 547x599]


No, no, no...  When he says "Christians", he means "True Christians"... Evangelical Christians.

/Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism
 
2014-04-07 07:37:44 PM
"Somebody should explain to Ms. Lieberman that there's a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion."

There are differences between any two things - that doesn't mean that similarities don't apply to them.
Like in this case - there is a similarity between freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion - namely, that the Constitution affords me both of them.

As far as this case - I don't care much about things like this - the ACLU is technically right, but I don't see much harm from renting out rooms on weekends. let the courts hash it out.

But let's not say stupid things, Mr. Faux News Blog-writer man/boy.
 
2014-04-07 07:38:04 PM

BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.


What if they are only renting to churches and not covens, synagogues, mosques, etc? That is still disparate impact right so the rule should be upheld so no one has that advantage. In that case, the Court's ruling is just.
 
2014-04-07 07:38:12 PM

Dinki: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x230]

You know how you can tell Todd is a better American than you?


Wait, look at his left shoulder, is he slowly being erased? Only Marty our faith can save him!
 
2014-04-07 07:38:19 PM
SHUT UP TODD
 
2014-04-07 07:38:57 PM

Valiente: Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.

Obligatory "your god hung from nails, my god owns a farking hammer" meme here.


Oh whatever, my god only had to hang for three days. Yours had to hang for nine.

"Even in sin you're paying retail" - Jon Stewart
 
2014-04-07 07:39:13 PM
Todd is really a poor substitute for Talking Smegma.
 
2014-04-07 07:39:20 PM
Todd Starnes is probably the closest reality has ever come to the political cartoonist from the Onion.
 
2014-04-07 07:39:35 PM

timswar: Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.

I'm a Christian. I believe Godnisnt weak. I believe that if God wanted to God could intervene and prevent this from happening.

Thus, I am left with the conclussion that either God supports this decision or just doesn't care one way or another about a city trying to keep their schools secular.

Frankly, I like my version of God a lot better than their version. My version isn't an asshole.


Never knock on my door to share your "good news" and we've got a deal, but I suspect some of your co-religionists might consider you of insufficient faith and possibly good works for your hypothesis and for believing that god can't be the biggest asshole of them all.
 
2014-04-07 07:40:05 PM

Deedeemarz: BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.

What if they are only renting to churches and not covens, synagogues, mosques, etc? That is still disparate impact right so the rule should be upheld so no one has that advantage. In that case, the Court's ruling is just.


Except that's not what happened so it's not.
 
2014-04-07 07:41:32 PM
Well they've been treating everyone who is not christian like second-class citizens for a very long time so, fark them.
 
2014-04-07 07:42:12 PM

fusillade762: By Todd Starnes

GOD DAMMIT. Can we get a farking "Starnes" tag already?


Looks like I need to change my Wampler Sheldon pic...
 
2014-04-07 07:42:47 PM

stewbert: But do the schools rent space to AA meetings?


Why would the auto club need to rent space at schools?
 
2014-04-07 07:42:53 PM

Confabulat: Just once, I'd think the people that have a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe could have something go their way.


Their Messiah was persecuted, and so must they be.

Or something.

/Even if they have to pretend...
//No it doesn't make sense
 
2014-04-07 07:43:43 PM
Not enough lions.
 
2014-04-07 07:44:15 PM

abhorrent1: Well they've been treating everyone who is not christian like second-class citizens for a very long time so, fark them.


White man's burden.
 
2014-04-07 07:44:37 PM
It's official! They said so on FOX!
 
2014-04-07 07:44:40 PM

Bob Falfa: DamnYankees: Ignoring the idiocy of TFA, this law does seem flatly unconstitutional.

Something, something, church, something, state.

I know a guy who used to be an elementary school principal. He refused to rent the school gym to any religious organizations because if he did for one, he'd have to do it for all (Moonies, KKK, etc). He got death threats for doing this.


Well, then, I would guess that he didn't rent the school gym out to any organization, to make it completely fair.

/If not, then he was discriminating on the basis of religion, which itself is unconstitutional.
 
2014-04-07 07:44:50 PM

genner: Deedeemarz: BravadoGT: dj_bigbird: It seems that the ruling applies to all religious gatherings, not just Christians.

insert pacman "we're being oppressed" graphic here.

The legal term for the phenomenon is "disparate impact"

If they're renting space to other groups and denying churches the same access--pretty discriminatory.

What if they are only renting to churches and not covens, synagogues, mosques, etc? That is still disparate impact right so the rule should be upheld so no one has that advantage. In that case, the Court's ruling is just.

Except that's not what happened so it's not.


It actually doesn't say....
 
2014-04-07 07:45:12 PM
for the love of FSM, DON'T READ THE COMMENTS!
I swear my IQ dropped 8-10 points and it was never that high to begin with
 
2014-04-07 07:45:32 PM

SilentStrider: Quit whining. Nobody cares what you think.


That's the right attitude.
 
2014-04-07 07:45:45 PM
I asked someone I know who rants and raves about being "persecuted" for being a Christian to explain what she meant by this supposed "persecution," and she told me it was that non-Christians have no problem saying or doing things that offend her.

So, apparently being offended = being persecuted.

Excuse me while I go bang my head on this desk over here.
 
2014-04-07 07:45:49 PM
img-oh wait youre serious
 
2014-04-07 07:47:42 PM
Christians who listen to Fox have become first-class suckers.
 
2014-04-07 07:48:06 PM

fusillade762: By Todd Starnes

GOD DAMMIT. Can we get a farking "Starnes" tag already?

*deep breath*, OK, since I already made the click.

A federal appeals panel has ruled that New York City has a right to ban churches from holding worship services in school buildings. In essence, it means Christians have officially become second-class citizens in the nation's largest city.

Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.


Okay, have it your way, they're exercising viewpoint discrimination against ALL religion. Does that make it somehow less of an assholeish position?
 
2014-04-07 07:48:06 PM

treesloth: fusillade762: Pretty sure this would apply to any religion who tried to use a public building. Of course he then goes on to claim it's an assault on ALL religious freedom. Pick one, you douche, you don't get to have it both ways.

It still works... If, in fact, all religious groups would receive the same response, and one accepts the idea that this ruling makes religious groups second-class citizens, then as a subset of the category "religious" Christians become second-class citizens.  Similarly with the idea of an assault on religious freedom.  An assault on the whole, in this case, also assaults the subset.


i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-04-07 07:48:16 PM
media.tumblr.com

All is as it should be, carry on...
 
2014-04-07 07:49:06 PM

DamnYankees: Calmamity: Because that is how the country was set up and how it runs. Don't like it? Move somewhere more politically aligned with your feelings, like Iran.

Why do you hate America?

This is false. As far as I'm aware (and its been a few months since I studied for the bar, but I'm pretty sure about this) if a school rents out its facilities to third parties, it has to permit religious institutions participate in that market.


The Court in New York just said the opposite. Which does go again prior precedent.
 
2014-04-07 07:49:36 PM
that article was rather short on details.  are ALL churches banned from renting out school buildings?
 
2014-04-07 07:49:41 PM

Dirty J1: Religion doesn't belong in school, for any reason, pure and simple. Keep that in designated religious buildings and your own homes.
Or rent a community center. Stay the hell out of schools.


I get that...and if they ban all religious groups, as a Christian, I don't take it personally.

I just think it's dumb to have buildings sit empty.  I think those buildings should be used 7 days a week.

I also think churches should be used 7 days a week. If you meet on Sunday, rent your building to an adventist group that meets on Saturday.
 
2014-04-07 07:49:55 PM

Xcott: Todd Starnes is probably the closest reality has ever come to the political cartoonist from the Onion.



i28.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-07 07:50:10 PM
Whoever wrote that needs to have somebody get a good strong 50 yard running start on them that ends in a full out kick in the balls.
 
2014-04-07 07:50:29 PM
"The New York Civil Liberties Union hailed the ruling as a victory for religious freedom."

Lolwutpear.jpg

/atheist
 
2014-04-07 07:50:37 PM
Scrolling through the discussion here, there's one point that I don't think I saw covered, and it could be a telling one.

Didn't various evangelical groups howl and whine at the top of their lungs to support the rights of businesses not to cater to (or bake cakes for) (or rent halls to) whoever they saw fit, for whatever reason?

Bearing that in mind, all I'm getting from this is a "sauce for the goose" vibe. Or a "hoist by your own petard" vibe.  And I think they may even be cross-pollinating, creating a "sauce for your own petard" vibe.
 
2014-04-07 07:50:47 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Christians People who listen to Fox have become first-class suckers.


FTFY. At least in that way, Fox is fair and balance.
 
2014-04-07 07:50:51 PM

Confabulat: Wow, America's most persecuted majority is crying again. What else is news. They really seem to have a weak-ass God.


GOD is ALL POWERFUL.  This is merely SIGN OF THE END TIMES.

/Repent sinner
//the end is near
///it will happen within the next decade
////Why yes I have said this continuously since 1974
//GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS
//(and now you know why I don't visit my mom)
 
2014-04-07 07:50:58 PM

oryx: The ban is constitutional, but I don't understand the purpose of the law. Nobody is using the school on Sundays so why not rent out the space. An atheist must have heard about the churches being there and caught the vapors.


The law exists because if a school rents to one church or religious grouping, it must rent to all.  If you let the Methodists rent, you must let the Moonies and Satanists rent.
 
2014-04-07 07:51:09 PM
I'd wish death on the man but, someone would just view him as a martyr for the continued endorsement of xtianity he claims doesn't exist in our government.  There's a reason Europe laughs at our politics like we are children.  We keep electing wannabe theocrats who can't comprehend that the way things currently are is in violation of our own laws against endorsing religions via government.

All religious people are ignorant and must surely have a portion of their brain stuck in reverse to be able to have religious faith with all the evidence contradicting their all loving deity's existence.  Sure, all the bad things are satan but, according to you morons, who is responsible for satan?
 
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