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(The Daily Beast)   Kenneth Miller who wrote the biology textbook that is most often attacked by "creationists" has just won the Vatican's Laetare Medal, given to a Catholic "whose genius has ennobled the arts and sciences, ... and enriched the heritage of humanity"   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 30
    More: Spiffy, Kenneth Miller, Laetare Medal, biology textbooks, Catholics, Vatican, evolutionary biology, Jerry Coyne, Discovery Institute  
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3750 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2014 at 1:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2014-04-07 01:23:35 PM  
11 votes:
Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.
2014-04-07 02:07:56 PM  
5 votes:

durbnpoisn: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.

I'm not a Catholic.  But my understanding is that they are among the few that are no so "fundemental" in their belief in the Bible.  They knowingly accept that it is a collection of stories, lessons, and parables.  Not to be taken so literally.
So I'm not surprised by this.


As a Catholic, the bigger problem I faced from Baptists and other sects was that Catholics believe in a "faith of deeds." With the other churches, it's enough to *say* you like poor people, but you don't actually have to *do* anything aside from pay lip service once a week. I'd given up on Catholicism over the last couple decades, mostly because I'm gay, and they don't seem to dig that (until Francis recently came along and said civil unions would be fine, because while he thinks marriage is between a man and a woman, charging people different tax rates and denying visitation in hospitals was just mean-spirited). Anyways, digressing back to the point, Catholics tend to (overall) vote more liberal than people who call themselves "evangelical"... but Catholics also tend to have a shorter tolerance for people who profess their devotion to Christ, but perform no discernable community service at all.

I hated Catholic school... but it taught me good habits, and I still volunteered at the food bank most weeks... I stopped about a month ago because, when pressed, I acknowledged that I had gone to Catholic school, and they all got pushy about whether or not I wanted to know the "real" Jesus. If they found out I am gay, I'm sure their version of "real" Jesus would want them to beat the crap out of me.

The other differentiating factor between Catholicism and other Christian relgions is the emphasis on the beatitudes, not just the ten commandments.... the beatitudes are the part of the Sermon on the Mount actually said by Jesus... the instructions he was laying out. The Jerks for Jesus angry Christians don't care much for what Jesus actually said:

3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
    for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
    for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
    for they will be called children of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Much of this runs very contrary to the Jerks for Jesus brands of Christianity that think the poor in spirit have no chance of getting into heaven, the meek are pussies, mercy is weakness, and peace is appeasement. Given their frequent demands to imprison the gays, tax them out of their homes (Windsor), or at the very least, deny hospital visitation, they aren't very good at the tenth either. The thing of it is, they try to plaster the Ten Commandments (Moses) everywhere... and they claim to be Christians, when they actively reject the things Christ purportedly said in the bible. Catholics aren't perfect by any means... but these people who use the bible as a cudgel, to divide people, and to incite hate... all without ever having actually read it... they're the worst kinds of hypocrites.
2014-04-07 01:25:58 PM  
4 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.


And the current official Catholic teaching is evolution.
2014-04-07 02:01:50 PM  
2 votes:
• evolution is a fact, not a theory. it is observable both in the lab and in nature.
• the "theory" is natural selection as a cause for evolution.
• also, a scientific theory isn't the same thing as an everyday i-think-my-neighbor-is-stealing-my-wifi type of theory.
2014-04-07 01:54:39 PM  
2 votes:
Really a non-story.  Catholic high school 1964 to '68.  In Biology class, evolution was taught exclusively.  Things like Lamarckism,etc., were only mentioned as examples of disproved theories or simply non-scientific beliefs.  In those days, creationism was not really a big deal on the public stage.  The brother who taught the class, didn't bring God into the any of the discussions, in any of the areas of biology. A good Catholic education and 4 years of high school science, turned me into the atheist I am today.  Thanks Marist brothers!
2014-04-07 01:33:05 PM  
2 votes:
For several centuries the Catholic church has had no disagreement with basic science. They might have issue with how scientific knowledge is applied (e.g., birth control) but there is no conflict between Catholic doctrine and mainstream science.
2014-04-07 01:31:17 PM  
2 votes:
Catholics believe in evolution as the method through which God created the Universe. The difference is they believe there was a prime mover.

The United Methodist Church shares basically the same line.
2014-04-07 01:29:02 PM  
2 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.


This.

I'm not a Catholic.  But my understanding is that they are among the few that are no so "fundemental" in their belief in the Bible.  They knowingly accept that it is a collection of stories, lessons, and parables.  Not to be taken so literally.
So I'm not surprised by this.
2014-04-07 01:10:29 PM  
2 votes:
I was unaware the Catholic Church has a Holy Office of Maximum Trolling....good on them
2014-04-08 01:54:50 PM  
1 votes:
Sigh:

Speed of light is absolute IN A VACUUM!

WHEN IT TRAVELS THROUGH A MEDIUM, THE MEDIUM AFFECTS THE SPEED! WE'VE KNOWN THIS SINCE NEWTON!  THAT'S WHAT REFRACTION *IS*!

Jeebus.
2014-04-07 04:02:53 PM  
1 votes:

PIP_the_TROLL: The problem really is weaponized morality. The idea that a set of values and beliefs can dictate criminal and social law. That they can dictate behavior. That they can lay out right and wrong in black and white terms.


Like this?

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/faith_and_values/2014/04/04/ ca tholic-teacher-pact-specifies-firing-offenses.html

Or this?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/united-methodist-official-denies-t ha t-ind-church-fired-gay-choir-director-over-sexual-orientation-112796/

How about this?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/catholic-parish-to-boy-scout-troop- ob ey-the-faith-on-homosexuality-or-go-so

Who's dictating to whom, really?

PIP_the_TROLL: I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.


Oh, you're one of those.  Been nice to know you.
2014-04-07 03:58:45 PM  
1 votes:

PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.


I cannot do the hearing of you. Nanananana.
2014-04-07 03:47:48 PM  
1 votes:

Magorn: durbnpoisn: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.

I'm not a Catholic.  But my understanding is that they are among the few that are no so "fundemental" in their belief in the Bible.  They knowingly accept that it is a collection of stories, lessons, and parables.  Not to be taken so literally.
So I'm not surprised by this.

Actually I can;t say for sure since I was raised Catholic, but I would venture to say that biblical literalism is doctrine in only a VERY small minority of identified Christian denominations, and even among THEM "Young Earth Creationism" is a minority opinion (as that 6,000 year old thing is from the Bishop of Ussher not the bible).  But by far, they get the most attention since they are so loud and vocal with their views  (Flat earthers are also Biblical literalists by the way, saying the Earth MUST be flat because the bible talks about the "Four Corners" of the earth, and a sphere has no corners so obviously.......)


Not in the US.

46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.  That might technically be a minority by itself, but only 85% of the country is religious.  Even if the other 9 or 10% religions in the US believe in their own brand of creationism (which is highly suspect) that bumps Christians and religious folk in general up to ~54%.  A majority.

And realistically it's going to be almost entirely christians, because any group that is not christian lacks the numbers and political clout to just stand there and loudly deny science, demanding the world go along with their complicated delusions.
2014-04-07 03:31:37 PM  
1 votes:

PIP_the_TROLL: Strangely, for Christians to act like Christians, it wouldn't make the news.


A point somewhat invalidated by this statement Now, granted, Pope Francis is doing an excellent PR job for Christianity in the same post.

A pope who has made the news PRECISELY for behaving like a christian.
2014-04-07 02:53:21 PM  
1 votes:

PIP_the_TROLL: There's a very vocal idiot circle in the United States that you guys seem to think represents Christians in general, but it's not so.


Folks like you keep saying this, but you don't farking do anything about it.

If the Braying Minority is sullying your Faith, call them out!  Expose their heresies!  Open some media outlets!  Become the dominant voice!

Because you're getting killed in the marketing department.

Step up your game!
2014-04-07 02:05:29 PM  
1 votes:

SordidEuphemism: If Saul of Tarsus had been illiterate, the Church would be in a much better place.


there's nothing like a convert...
2014-04-07 01:54:54 PM  
1 votes:

dryknife: Catholics have never been encouraged to read the Bible.


Not true.  Two readings from the old testament and one from the new every week in Mass.  Plus there are often extra classes even for adults where bible study and reading take place.

Plus the Catholics have the only true bible passed down from the apostle Paul, not that heathen bible written for a King.
2014-04-07 01:52:56 PM  
1 votes:

cgraves67: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

And the current official Catholic teaching is evolution.


Not quite.

The Catholic Church has no "teaching" with respect to evolution.  That is the realm of science, which the Church does not teach, but instead leaves to the scientists.  The only exception is that the soul must be made by God.

From Vatican II: "methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are. "

If tomorrow, the scientists of the world announced that, based on pure and proper scientific grounds, "evolution is false, we did not evolve from monkeys, a small bang of matter generated from fish poop led to humans", the Church would not object.
2014-04-07 01:49:46 PM  
1 votes:

PIP_the_TROLL: Wellon Dowd: For several centuries the Catholic church has had no disagreement with basic science. They might have issue with how scientific knowledge is applied (e.g., birth control) but there is no conflict between Catholic doctrine and mainstream science.

This is true for pretty much all Christians.

There's a very vocal idiot circle in the United States that you guys seem to think represents Christians in general, but it's not so.


Here is a picture of a very vocal idiot circle. Of course they don't 'represent' anything.

images.politico.com
2014-04-07 01:48:05 PM  
1 votes:

Magorn: I was unaware the Catholic Church has a Holy Office of Maximum Trolling....good on them


It's unofficial title is the Holy See What You Did There
2014-04-07 01:46:39 PM  
1 votes:

pute kisses like a man: FTA:

Many consider Miller a paradoxical figure who occupies the thinly populated no-man's land between science and religion, embracing both with enthusiasm and finding no conflict.

the only christians i know personally embrace both their beliefs and science and find no conflicts.  the loud minority are the idiots that think it's one or the other. in real life, there isn't a problem.


Yes there is. The idiots vote.

/yes, yes, Politics tab over there, I know
2014-04-07 01:45:33 PM  
1 votes:

Slaves2Darkness: Yes well the everyone knows the Catholics are worshiping a false idol, the Pope, and not the one true God JESUS, the prosperity giver, as such they are all going to BURN IN HELL!


Our "Mary worship" makes us guilty of idolatry. The Pope is the antichrist.

In any case, a Jesuit priest told me many years ago when I said how much I loved science, "If you want to know God, you must know His creation, and if you want to know His creation, study science."
2014-04-07 01:42:07 PM  
1 votes:

Wellon Dowd: For several centuries the Catholic church has had no disagreement with basic science. They might have issue with how scientific knowledge is applied (e.g., birth control) but there is no conflict between Catholic doctrine and mainstream science.


This is true for pretty much all Christians.

There's a very vocal idiot circle in the United States that you guys seem to think represents Christians in general, but it's not so.
2014-04-07 01:38:42 PM  
1 votes:

durbnpoisn: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.

I'm not a Catholic.  But my understanding is that they are among the few that are no so "fundemental" in their belief in the Bible.  They knowingly accept that it is a collection of stories, lessons, and parables.  Not to be taken so literally.
So I'm not surprised by this.


Exactly.  Not to mention the Church realized that they kinda farked that whole Galileo thing.  Ever since about the 1750s, the Catholic Church has been pretty science minded.

See the Jesuits.
Oak
2014-04-07 01:37:03 PM  
1 votes:

Marine1: Catholics believe in evolution as the method through which God created the Universe. The difference is they believe there was a prime mover.

The United Methodist Church shares basically the same line.


Evolution has nothing to do with the "creation of the universe."  It has to do with changes in living creatures over generations.

/Pierre Teilhard de Chardin was a Jesuit priest
2014-04-07 01:35:17 PM  
1 votes:

dryknife: Catholics have never been encouraged to read the Bible.


Nobody else does.
2014-04-07 01:32:29 PM  
1 votes:
Remind me to spit on the ground in front of the Discovery Institute next time I'm in downtown Seattle
2014-04-07 01:31:54 PM  
1 votes:

Zasteva: Just this morning I was seeing something about another attack by the Catholic Church on gay rights... and thinking fark those guys...

Now they have to go and do something like this?!?

Cut it out Catholic Church -- you are supposed to be either all good or all evil. This good sometimes bad others thing is just not working for me.


Franny did tell the bishops lay off the abortion,gays and hellfire sermons.
2014-04-07 01:30:45 PM  
1 votes:

FriarReb98: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.  We're some sort of power-hungry heathens, if I remember correctly.


No, you're idolators, the joos and mooslums are heathens

Don't even get me started on Hindis and Budhists.
2014-04-07 01:25:46 PM  
1 votes:
Take that, Protestant apostates!
 
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