Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Daily Beast)   Kenneth Miller who wrote the biology textbook that is most often attacked by "creationists" has just won the Vatican's Laetare Medal, given to a Catholic "whose genius has ennobled the arts and sciences, ... and enriched the heritage of humanity"   ( thedailybeast.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Kenneth Miller, Laetare Medal, biology textbooks, Catholics, Vatican, evolutionary biology, Jerry Coyne, Discovery Institute  
•       •       •

3830 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2014 at 1:22 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



151 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2014-04-07 03:22:56 PM  

bigdog1960: FizixJunkee: Mid_mo_mad_man: Magorn: I was unaware the Catholic Church has a Holy Office of Maximum Trolling....good on them

Francis is a roll with his trolling

Yeah, I'm loving the guy.

/Jewish

So you going to convert. Sorry could not resist. He is pretty cool.


Apparently Pope Frankie's bestest bud in the whole world is an Orthodox Rabbi, some I'm thinking he may not have to after Frankie slips a few doctrinal loopholes in
 
2014-04-07 03:24:33 PM  

Deucednuisance: PIP_the_TROLL: There's a very vocal idiot circle in the United States that you guys seem to think represents Christians in general, but it's not so.

Folks like you keep saying this, but you don't farking do anything about it.

If the Braying Minority is sullying your Faith, call them out!  Expose their heresies!  Open some media outlets!  Become the dominant voice!

Because you're getting killed in the marketing department.

Step up your game!


Why would that make a difference? Atheists and other people on the extreme left tend to see those conservatives of all stripes as "Stupid" at best or "Evil" at worst.Whereas on the right, the opposition is usually seen as "Weak" and "Naive". Perhaps "Lazy". And in the extreme, "Corrupted."

See the difference in perception? It's why people in the middle tend to swing conservative but vocalize liberal. Now, weakness or naivete are largely subjective and a matter of differing opinion. Being called stupid and evil tends to piss people off because they're absolute, core flaws in the person.

Now, granted, Pope Francis is doing an excellent PR job for Christianity. But a concerted effort by Christians in general would terrify leftists. Those efforts would be ignored and ridiculed and ultimately vilified. The reason Christianity is attacked has absolutely nothing to do with science or alleged suppression of it. It has nothing to do with teaching Creationism in schools or not being able to buy liquor on Sundays.

The problem really is weaponized morality. The idea that a set of values and beliefs can dictate criminal and social law. That they can dictate behavior. That they can lay out right and wrong in black and white terms.

Nobody wants to be judged and morality exists for the sole purpose of judgement.

When the left can admit that, then maybe we can find some effective middle ground.

Strangely, for Christians to act like Christians, it wouldn't make the news. As Christians, we're basically required to serve our fellow man. "Love they neighbor" is a pretty specific and broad mandate.
 
2014-04-07 03:31:37 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: Strangely, for Christians to act like Christians, it wouldn't make the news.


A point somewhat invalidated by this statement Now, granted, Pope Francis is doing an excellent PR job for Christianity in the same post.

A pope who has made the news PRECISELY for behaving like a christian.
 
2014-04-07 03:33:29 PM  

Tigger: PIP_the_TROLL: Strangely, for Christians to act like Christians, it wouldn't make the news.

A point somewhat invalidated by this statement Now, granted, Pope Francis is doing an excellent PR job for Christianity in the same post.

A pope who has made the news PRECISELY for behaving like a christian.


Yes, but he's famous. Him eating an ice cream cone would make the news.

Bob Smith next door won't make the news.
 
2014-04-07 03:35:06 PM  

FriarReb98: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.  We're some sort of power-hungry heathens, if I remember correctly.


Power-hungry, oppresive, you apparently murdered all the "real" christians you could get your hands on, and practice idolatry by worshipping Mary.   Also some crap about the RCC being the biblical Whore of Babylon.

Personally, when I am mercilessly taunting Catholics I prefer the amusing Freudian edge to the Catholic obsession with "the VIRGIN (in all caps) Mary."  It seems especially prevalent in South America.  She's always depicted as a 20-something hottie, even if her 30-something son is dying in her arms.  They call her "mother mary" and also talk about her virginity and fertility in ways that are clearly sexual.

Not really much of a jump to incest fetish, catholic mothers, that weird and creepy trope of the overbearing catholic mother that sends her son to the priesthood because she'd rather give him to god than share him with some other woman...Really the psychosexual relations just don't stop.

But that's me being mean.  The RCC is generally better (at least in Europe and North America) than the evangelical protestants here in the US.  The mess in Africa is more dicey with the whole AIDS business, and South America is hard to separate "we're a lousy place to live" from "our religion is farking us over."

Gotta play it soft.
 
2014-04-07 03:35:28 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: Why would that make a difference?


[snip]

I mean if I quoted all the deflection that followed, it'd be like a Funhouse Hall of Mirrors in here.
 
2014-04-07 03:38:29 PM  
media1.razorplanet.com
 
2014-04-07 03:41:55 PM  
"Christians show their love through our deeds and our politics. Take the poor and help them. Share your table with them. Treat them lime Jesus would."
-Rand Paul
 
2014-04-07 03:43:18 PM  
Papist infidels.
 
2014-04-07 03:47:48 PM  

Magorn: durbnpoisn: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.

I'm not a Catholic.  But my understanding is that they are among the few that are no so "fundemental" in their belief in the Bible.  They knowingly accept that it is a collection of stories, lessons, and parables.  Not to be taken so literally.
So I'm not surprised by this.

Actually I can;t say for sure since I was raised Catholic, but I would venture to say that biblical literalism is doctrine in only a VERY small minority of identified Christian denominations, and even among THEM "Young Earth Creationism" is a minority opinion (as that 6,000 year old thing is from the Bishop of Ussher not the bible).  But by far, they get the most attention since they are so loud and vocal with their views  (Flat earthers are also Biblical literalists by the way, saying the Earth MUST be flat because the bible talks about the "Four Corners" of the earth, and a sphere has no corners so obviously.......)


Not in the US.

46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.  That might technically be a minority by itself, but only 85% of the country is religious.  Even if the other 9 or 10% religions in the US believe in their own brand of creationism (which is highly suspect) that bumps Christians and religious folk in general up to ~54%.  A majority.

And realistically it's going to be almost entirely christians, because any group that is not christian lacks the numbers and political clout to just stand there and loudly deny science, demanding the world go along with their complicated delusions.
 
2014-04-07 03:52:38 PM  

TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.


I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.
 
2014-04-07 03:54:15 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.


It's real, and I personally know a number of them, and I'm in the relatively heathen state of Oregon.
 
2014-04-07 03:58:45 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.


I cannot do the hearing of you. Nanananana.
 
2014-04-07 03:59:39 PM  

TheBigJerk: FriarReb98: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.  We're some sort of power-hungry heathens, if I remember correctly.

Power-hungry, oppresive, you apparently murdered all the "real" christians you could get your hands on, and practice idolatry by worshipping Mary.   Also some crap about the RCC being the biblical Whore of Babylon.

Personally, when I am mercilessly taunting Catholics I prefer the amusing Freudian edge to the Catholic obsession with "the VIRGIN (in all caps) Mary."  It seems especially prevalent in South America.  She's always depicted as a 20-something hottie, even if her 30-something son is dying in her arms.  They call her "mother mary" and also talk about her virginity and fertility in ways that are clearly sexual.

Not really much of a jump to incest fetish, catholic mothers, that weird and creepy trope of the overbearing catholic mother that sends her son to the priesthood because she'd rather give him to god than share him with some other woman...Really the psychosexual relations just don't stop.

But that's me being mean.  The RCC is generally better (at least in Europe and North America) than the evangelical protestants here in the US.  The mess in Africa is more dicey with the whole AIDS business, and South America is hard to separate "we're a lousy place to live" from "our religion is farking us over."

Gotta play it soft.


Look laddie we got this problem: see, we've only got just the one REALLY IMPORTANT Female in the mythos but the ancient archetypes must not be muddled with,  and so she's got to stand in for Mother, Maiden and Crone all by her onsies, and that gets things a we bit muddled, Savvy?
 
2014-04-07 04:02:48 PM  

TheBigJerk: Magorn: durbnpoisn: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.

I'm not a Catholic.  But my understanding is that they are among the few that are no so "fundemental" in their belief in the Bible.  They knowingly accept that it is a collection of stories, lessons, and parables.  Not to be taken so literally.
So I'm not surprised by this.

Actually I can;t say for sure since I was raised Catholic, but I would venture to say that biblical literalism is doctrine in only a VERY small minority of identified Christian denominations, and even among THEM "Young Earth Creationism" is a minority opinion (as that 6,000 year old thing is from the Bishop of Ussher not the bible).  But by far, they get the most attention since they are so loud and vocal with their views  (Flat earthers are also Biblical literalists by the way, saying the Earth MUST be flat because the bible talks about the "Four Corners" of the earth, and a sphere has no corners so obviously.......)

Not in the US.

46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.  That might technically be a minority by itself, but only 85% of the country is religious.  Even if the other 9 or 10% religions in the US believe in their own brand of creationism (which is highly suspect) that bumps Christians and religious folk in general up to ~54%.  A majority.

And realistically it's going to be almost entirely christians, because any group that is not christian lacks the numbers and political clout to just stand there and loudly deny science, demanding the world go along with their complicated delusions.


That's a shocking number, but reading the Poll question I would say it's and extremely poor-worded on designed to create a higher #3 response rate than is really the case as choosing 10,000 years rather than 6,000 year could lead some people to confuse the dawn of civilization with the evolution of humanity and thereby are not so much young earth creationist as poorly schooled in science
 
2014-04-07 04:02:53 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: The problem really is weaponized morality. The idea that a set of values and beliefs can dictate criminal and social law. That they can dictate behavior. That they can lay out right and wrong in black and white terms.


Like this?

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/faith_and_values/2014/04/04/ ca tholic-teacher-pact-specifies-firing-offenses.html

Or this?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/united-methodist-official-denies-t ha t-ind-church-fired-gay-choir-director-over-sexual-orientation-112796/

How about this?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/catholic-parish-to-boy-scout-troop- ob ey-the-faith-on-homosexuality-or-go-so

Who's dictating to whom, really?

PIP_the_TROLL: I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.


Oh, you're one of those.  Been nice to know you.
 
2014-04-07 04:09:15 PM  

Deucednuisance: Like this?


[snip]

I'm not catholic, but in essence yes. Ultimately we want the right to decide what's right and wrong ourselves. Relativity = flexibility. If there is monolithic source of right and wrong, that's a problem. We don't want to hear it.

Deucednuisance: Oh, you're one of those. Been nice to know you.


I'm not. But that number stinks of "Dark Ages" to me - a myth perpetuated for the specific purpose of slandering the religious.
 
2014-04-07 05:04:40 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.


No, but when the Vatican is a beacon of progressive learning and science, you gotta say, "What the fark Creationists?"
 
2014-04-07 05:12:33 PM  

TheBigJerk: FriarReb98: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.  We're some sort of power-hungry heathens, if I remember correctly.

Power-hungry, oppresive, you apparently murdered all the "real" christians you could get your hands on, and practice idolatry by worshipping Mary.   Also some crap about the RCC being the biblical Whore of Babylon.

Personally, when I am mercilessly taunting Catholics I prefer the amusing Freudian edge to the Catholic obsession with "the VIRGIN (in all caps) Mary."  It seems especially prevalent in South America.  She's always depicted as a 20-something hottie, even if her 30-something son is dying in her arms.  They call her "mother mary" and also talk about her virginity and fertility in ways that are clearly sexual.

Not really much of a jump to incest fetish, catholic mothers, that weird and creepy trope of the overbearing catholic mother that sends her son to the priesthood because she'd rather give him to god than share him with some other woman...Really the psychosexual relations just don't stop.

But that's me being mean.  The RCC is generally better (at least in Europe and North America) than the evangelical protestants here in the US.  The mess in Africa is more dicey with the whole AIDS business, and South America is hard to separate "we're a lousy place to live" from "our religion is farking us over."

Gotta play it soft.



I never got the young being sexual connection.  I always saw the virgin and youth as part of being pure.  Where virginity and youth are both associated with purity.  And Mary, mother of Christ, is the most pure among us.
 
2014-04-07 05:21:29 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.


This squared.

Compared to some versions of American Christianity, Catholics are athestic science lovers.

/Burn them!!
 
2014-04-07 05:44:48 PM  

capt.hollister: iheartscotch: This has nothing to do with Rome. It looks like Notre Dame University awards this particular award; unless, I'm reading the article wrong.

So what ? it's still in keeping with standard catholic beliefs. As it happens, catholics are great believers in science. The Catholic church has no problem, for example, with evolution or the Big Bang or a multi-billion year-old Earth.


Or, apparently, with blessing torture chambers.  And absolving torturers of their sins.   In the cool new Pope's homeland...and not in way back in the Dark Ages, either:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/pope-faces-accusations-argentina s- dirty-war/story?id=18745535
 
2014-04-07 06:06:44 PM  

TheBigJerk: Personally, when I am mercilessly taunting Catholics I prefer the amusing Freudian edge to the Catholic obsession with "the VIRGIN (in all caps) Mary." It seems especially prevalent in South America. She's always depicted as a 20-something hottie, even if her 30-something son is dying in her arms. They call her "mother mary" and also talk about her virginity and fertility in ways that are clearly sexual.

Not really much of a jump to incest fetish, catholic mothers, that weird and creepy trope of the overbearing catholic mother that sends her son to the priesthood because she'd rather give him to god than share him with some other woman...


This is just a Hispanic thing. If you modeled Mary as a 30+ Hispanic woman, she'd need 50 pounds and a mustache.
 
2014-04-07 08:27:26 PM  

PunGent: capt.hollister: iheartscotch: This has nothing to do with Rome. It looks like Notre Dame University awards this particular award; unless, I'm reading the article wrong.

So what ? it's still in keeping with standard catholic beliefs. As it happens, catholics are great believers in science. The Catholic church has no problem, for example, with evolution or the Big Bang or a multi-billion year-old Earth.

Or, apparently, with blessing torture chambers.  And absolving torturers of their sins.   In the cool new Pope's homeland...and not in way back in the Dark Ages, either:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/pope-faces-accusations-argentina s- dirty-war/story?id=18745535


And the link with the subject at hand, that the catholic church supports teaching evolution, is ?
 
2014-04-07 08:44:53 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.


Heh. I suppose the irony of this is lost on you. It is this same attitude towards information that you yourself are exhibiting that enables that 46% in the first place. You better believe many people can willingly ignore information - you're apparently one of them.
 
2014-04-07 09:05:10 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.

Heh. I suppose the irony of this is lost on you. It is this same attitude towards information that you yourself are exhibiting that enables that 46% in the first place. You better believe many people can willingly ignore information - you're apparently one of them.


I'm not ignoring it. I don't believe it. It stinks of propaganda to me. Like the Dark Ages. A myth maintained to slander the religious.
 
2014-04-07 09:16:19 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: Damnhippyfreak: PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.

Heh. I suppose the irony of this is lost on you. It is this same attitude towards information that you yourself are exhibiting that enables that 46% in the first place. You better believe many people can willingly ignore information - you're apparently one of them.

I'm not ignoring it. I don't believe it. It stinks of propaganda to me. Like the Dark Ages. A myth maintained to slander the religious.



Case in point.
 
2014-04-07 09:26:02 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: Damnhippyfreak: PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.

Heh. I suppose the irony of this is lost on you. It is this same attitude towards information that you yourself are exhibiting that enables that 46% in the first place. You better believe many people can willingly ignore information - you're apparently one of them.

I'm not ignoring it. I don't believe it. It stinks of propaganda to me. Like the Dark Ages. A myth maintained to slander the religious.



Which is probably very similar to what many of those 46% would say to justify their belief in Young Earth Creationism.
 
2014-04-07 09:39:24 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: PIP_the_TROLL: Damnhippyfreak: PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.

Heh. I suppose the irony of this is lost on you. It is this same attitude towards information that you yourself are exhibiting that enables that 46% in the first place. You better believe many people can willingly ignore information - you're apparently one of them.

I'm not ignoring it. I don't believe it. It stinks of propaganda to me. Like the Dark Ages. A myth maintained to slander the religious.


Which is probably very similar to what many of those 46% would say to justify their belief in Young Earth Creationism.


Not exactly. The source for the generally accepted scientific age of the Earth is radiocarbon dating. I'm not saying carbon dating is wrong. I'm saying *if* it is, or if we're wrong in our calculations based on it, then that date is wrong. Fundamentally what we're doing is putting a shiatload of faith in something that can change. The speed of light is no longer absolute, how does radiocarbon dating (which doesn't even approach that level of immutability) stack up in the grand scheme of unassailable numbers?

I don't believe in Young Earth Creationism. I don't know why anyone would. The guy that did it just added up all the numbers in the bible that he could and made a guess. But huge stretches of time aren't even mentioned at all. The source doesn't substantiate the theory even theologically. It's silly and most Christians don't believe in that.

However, if we believe - if Scientists believe they can speak in absolutes about the history and makeup of this world then that represents the absolute pinnacle of hubris. Man is flawed and all that man produces is flawed and our understanding is flawed. To deny that fact is to wallow in narcissistic delusion.
 
2014-04-07 10:13:26 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.


This.
 
2014-04-07 11:17:39 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: Damnhippyfreak: PIP_the_TROLL: Damnhippyfreak: PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.

Heh. I suppose the irony of this is lost on you. It is this same attitude towards information that you yourself are exhibiting that enables that 46% in the first place. You better believe many people can willingly ignore information - you're apparently one of them.

I'm not ignoring it. I don't believe it. It stinks of propaganda to me. Like the Dark Ages. A myth maintained to slander the religious.


Which is probably very similar to what many of those 46% would say to justify their belief in Young Earth Creationism.

Not exactly. The source for the generally accepted scientific age of the Earth is radiocarbon dating. I'm not saying carbon dating is wrong. I'm saying *if* it is, or if we're wrong in our calculations based on it, then that date is wrong. Fundamentally what we're doing is putting a shiatload of faith in something that can change. The speed of light is no longer absolute, how does radiocarbon dating (which doesn't even approach that level of immutability) stack up in the grand scheme of unassailable numbers?

I don't believe in Young Earth Creationism. I don't know why anyone would. The guy that did it just added up all the numbers in the bible that he could and made a guess. But huge stretches of time aren't even mentioned at all. The source doesn't substantiate the theory even theologically. It's silly and most Christians don't believe in that.

However, if we believe - if Scientists believe they can speak in absolutes about the history and makeup of this world then that represents the absolute pinnacle of hubris. Man is flawed and all that man produces is flawed and our understanding is flawed. To deny that fact is to wallow in narcissistic delusion.



Then you're back to ignoring evidence and going with gut feelings. Just saying, after your posts, you're really bringing home the kind of thinking those 46% might be using - whether you intend to or not.
 
2014-04-07 11:51:25 PM  

Magorn: Look laddie we got this problem: see, we've only got just the one REALLY IMPORTANT Female in the mythos but the ancient archetypes must not be muddled with,  and so she's got to stand in for Mother, Maiden and Crone all by her onsies, and that gets things a we bit muddled, Savvy?


Bah! Humbug!

Actually Mary Magdalene plays the Maiden pretty well, or she would if the church didn't decide to massively downplay her involvement because she was a filthy whore.  This opens up more mean jokes revolving around "The Fisher of Men" and certain apostles being jealous that some woman was stealing "their" man, but it's late and I have cities to reclaim from the zombie hordes, music to listen to, and lesbian furry porn to write.

I may have just shared too much.
 
2014-04-08 12:11:45 AM  

Damnhippyfreak: Then you're back to ignoring evidence and going with gut feelings. Just saying, after your posts, you're really bringing home the kind of thinking those 46% might be using - whether you intend to or not.


Far from it. If anything, young earthers have more in common with those who accept the scientific date on faith than they do with me. Both groups are placing unquestioning faith in numbers somebody else added up and for which there is not and can never be absolute substantiation.

I exist in the middle. I believe God created the Earth. Now whether that was six literal days or six metaphorical days is irrelevant to me. I know He has the power to do either. I also believe in Evolution as a mechanic placed in the world by God no different than gravity or the certainty of death and taxes. These are mechanisms *we* need and God is neither restrained by nor beholden to them.

He's the programmer, we're the code. The rules that apply to us don't apply to him.
 
2014-04-08 12:39:35 AM  
PIP_the_TROLL: I am a special middle-of-the-road snowflake which makes me better than and above everyone.

That's nice kiddo, here's the deal.  There have been a number of polls, a slim majority of religious Americans, overwhelmingly christian, believe in creationism, young-earth, answers-in-genesis, retarded creationism.  They're wrong, they're jokes, and it's only in America.  Europe doesn't have this problem, Asia doesn't have this problem (or as many Christians to poll in the first place).  The Southern Hemisphere may have this problem but I don't know the numbers for Argentina or Africa or even Mexico.

So what?  So nothing.  Christianity isn't the problem, nor is it unfairly blamed.  The problem was and is people like you who defend with all your might the right of MORONS to remain morons.  All through this thread you've been denying the existence or defending the existence of idiot creationists while attacking science and reality with debunked and dismissed AiG bullshiat and deflections aplenty.

You pretend this isn't what you are doing, just as you pretend that the ever-present creationist drive to inject magical religion bullshiat into science class isn't a thing that is happening.  But you are.
 
2014-04-08 03:41:42 AM  

PIP_the_TROLL: Damnhippyfreak: Then you're back to ignoring evidence and going with gut feelings. Just saying, after your posts, you're really bringing home the kind of thinking those 46% might be using - whether you intend to or not.


Far from it. If anything, young earthers have more in common with those who accept the scientific date on faith than they do with me. Both groups are placing unquestioning faith in numbers somebody else added up and for which there is not and can never be absolute substantiation.



More importantly, refusing to even look at evidence, even when substantiated:

PIP_the_TROLL: TheBigJerk: 46% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism.

I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.

 
2014-04-08 03:53:36 AM  

PIP_the_TROLL: I don't believe in Young Earth Creationism. I don't know why anyone would.



Again, the sort of thinking involved probably goes something along like this:

PIP_the_TROLL: I don't believe that number. Don't bother with citations, I still don't believe it.


Whether that number is poll numbers or the age of the earth, refusing to even consider the evidence behind it remains something less than rational, and what allows these sort of beliefs to be maintained.

I know I'm being harsh on you here, pointing this out repeatedly, but your failing to come to grips with your own devaluing of evidence shows that you have more in common with these people than you think. You don't have to wonder why anyone would believe in Young Earth Creationism - just look at your own words.
 
2014-04-08 07:02:25 AM  

TheBigJerk: That's nice kiddo, here's the deal. There have been a number of polls, a slim majority of religious Americans, overwhelmingly christian, believe in creationism, young-earth, answers-in-genesis, retarded creationism. They're wrong, they're jokes, and it's only in America. Europe doesn't have this problem, Asia doesn't have this problem (or as many Christians to poll in the first place). The Southern Hemisphere may have this problem but I don't know the numbers for Argentina or Africa or even Mexico.


Okay, let me try to help.

I'm from the Caribbean - the Cayman Islands specifically. This country is solidly Christian. 95+ percent. I've traveled extensively throughout the region, from Cuba to Trinidad and along Central and upper South America. And I've traveled extensively through the United States since I was 2 years old, through simple proximity. Even went to university there and lived there for a while. Oh, also traveled throughout Europe for a time.

Now, I say that to say this: You'll be hard pressed to find a region of the world more staunchly and fundamentally Christian than the Caribbean. We're steeped in it here from the moment we're born. Private Christian Schools flourish and even the public curriculum includes religious education classes. Nearly all public functions begin with prayer. Our social laws - where not constrained by international law - find their moral center in Christianity. Clubs and bars close early on Saturday and there's nothing but gas stations and restaurants open on Sunday. The people around you proselytize constantly. They quote scripture and hum hymns while they work.

We're mostly black and hispanic descent down here in the region and you know how black people love us some Jesus.

You can't even imagine a world where every surface reflects a Christian point of view. My coworker from Colorado found he needed a great deal of adjusting. In the US, you're not used to religion being so close to the surface anymore.

Now, while my country is very, very small - it's represented by hundreds of churches of all Christian denominations - largely ones imported from or affiliated with the United States. I was raised in Church of God (in fact, the church I was raised in was founded here by missionaries from Hagerstown, Maryland), but I've spent time in many, many others. I've traveled all over the world and met thousands and thousands of people (I'm especially interested in talking to people of other religions). I grew up next door to and partially within the borders of the United States. I'm surrounded by black and white Protestants and Latin Catholics.

But despite being raised in this absolutely Christian world, I can count the number of young earth creationists I've met on one hand.

*That* is why I don't believe that number.

Scientists say they won't believe what they can't see?
 
2014-04-08 08:15:09 AM  
A little off subject, but did anyone else listen to the Hardcore History podcast about the Anabaptists?
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/9/1/1/911ad132416c9257/dchha48_Prophets_of _D oom.mp3?c_id=5613758&expiration=1396980707&hwt=a1ce61300e20ef08d47db88 d7ff2d377

Fark me!
 
2014-04-08 08:41:34 AM  
PIP_the_TROLL: (long string of personal anecdotes)

Scientists say they won't believe what they can't see?


The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

I grew up in "Real America" and it was creationists as far as the eye could see.
 
2014-04-08 08:56:46 AM  

TheBigJerk: The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Let me be clearer. My personal experiences cause me to call that number into question. I'm not interested in subjecting myself to scientific rigor over whether or not I give a charged poll question credence.

I'm not saying that number is wrong, I'm saying I don't believe it. It does not correlate with what I've experienced in the real world. And ultimately that is the source and purpose of observation.
 
2014-04-08 12:22:17 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: The source for the generally accepted scientific age of the Earth is radiocarbon dating.


I know I bid you Good Day, earlier and all, but if you think this is a factual statement, you are stunningly misinformed.

Radiocarbon can only date objects that were once alive.  The Earth is a shiat-ton older than Life.

Radiocarbon dating has an effective range of about 50,000 years.  The amount Earth is older than that is shiat-tons of orders of magnitude more than the prior statement.

Like many things in this thread, you speak as if from a place of Special Knowledge, yet are strikingly misinformed.

i.chzbgr.com

shtychkn: I never got the young being sexual connection.


Nothing Freudian here, amirite?

www.scborromeo.org
 
2014-04-08 12:26:08 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: The speed of light is no longer absolute


Sigh, just looked at your citation, and you are a fool.  That's not what the takeaway of that article is.

Do you know how prisms work?

Or, since you're so well informed by your faith...

Rainbows?
 
2014-04-08 01:33:03 PM  

Deucednuisance: I know I bid you Good Day, earlier and all, but if you think this is a factual statement, you are stunningly misinformed.


No I made a mistake and used the incorrect term. "radiometric dating' since you want to be pedantic. The core precepts are the same, just the source is different. Go ahead and split that hair though.

Deucednuisance: Sigh, just looked at your citation, and you are a fool. That's not what the takeaway of that article is.

Do you know how prisms work?


Yes, I understand refraction just fine. The point is, the speed of life is absolute - except when it's not. Light is always Light. C is always C. Except when it's not. And for fun, let's throw some gravitational lensing in there, or a black hole.

Too many things in Science nowadays are spoken of in absolutes with insufficient reason. It wasn't so before. Scientists almost never spoke in absolutes. Now anybody with a white coat is a member of the priesthood and their word is law.
 
2014-04-08 01:54:50 PM  
Sigh:

Speed of light is absolute IN A VACUUM!

WHEN IT TRAVELS THROUGH A MEDIUM, THE MEDIUM AFFECTS THE SPEED! WE'VE KNOWN THIS SINCE NEWTON!  THAT'S WHAT REFRACTION *IS*!

Jeebus.
 
2014-04-08 02:33:31 PM  

Deucednuisance: Sigh:

Speed of light is absolute IN A VACUUM!

WHEN IT TRAVELS THROUGH A MEDIUM, THE MEDIUM AFFECTS THE SPEED! WE'VE KNOWN THIS SINCE NEWTON!  THAT'S WHAT REFRACTION *IS*!

Jeebus.


Making my point for me, buddy. Science can't speak in absolutes. It's nothing but a series of interconnected caveats.
 
2014-04-08 02:41:21 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: It's nothing but a series of interconnected caveats.


Absolute: Any wave propagating through a medium will have its speed altered by that medium in ways which can be measured, quantified, and from which predictions can be made.  Prove that statement false.

Likewise absolute: you are sophomoric, in the Latin sense of the word.

Have a nice day.  I have far better things to do than further enable your prattling.
 
2014-04-08 03:29:56 PM  

capt.hollister: PunGent: capt.hollister: iheartscotch: This has nothing to do with Rome. It looks like Notre Dame University awards this particular award; unless, I'm reading the article wrong.

So what ? it's still in keeping with standard catholic beliefs. As it happens, catholics are great believers in science. The Catholic church has no problem, for example, with evolution or the Big Bang or a multi-billion year-old Earth.

Or, apparently, with blessing torture chambers.  And absolving torturers of their sins.   In the cool new Pope's homeland...and not in way back in the Dark Ages, either:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/pope-faces-accusations-argentina s- dirty-war/story?id=18745535

And the link with the subject at hand, that the catholic church supports teaching evolution, is ?


Really?

Fine.  A belief in some aspects of the modern world...such as evolution...is clearly is no guarantee that they've cast off older, darker beliefs...in things like torture.

The new Pope is making a lot of nice speeches, and symbolic gestures, which is nice.

I'm going to reserve judgment before looking to the Vatican for any moral guidelines, however.  Particularly while they continue to extend diplomatic immunity to men who enabled child molestation.
 
2014-04-08 04:20:47 PM  
PIP_the_TROLL: my ignorance is equal to your knowledge!

I don't know why I'm playing this game, I mean it's in your farking name.

Just bored too I guess.
 
2014-04-08 05:46:18 PM  

Deucednuisance: Absolute: Any wave propagating through a medium will have its speed altered by that medium in ways which can be measured, quantified, and from which predictions can be made. Prove that statement false.


Rebuttal: Gravity.

Deucednuisance: Likewise absolute: you are sophomoric, in the Latin sense of the word.


Ouch. Finally the ad hominem.

TheBigJerk: PIP_the_TROLL: my ignorance is equal to your knowledge!

I don't know why I'm playing this game, I mean it's in your farking name.

Just bored too I guess.


I don't mind a good debate. Even ones where I take a lot of hits.

What I don't understand is the statement as to my ignorance. I didn't say the number that started this tumble down the hillside was wrong - I said I don't believe it.

Since when has something being in a poll on the internet or even in a science textbook made it undeniably, irrefutably true? When did publishing become axiomatic? How often is 'SCIENCE!" wrong? How often do the Holy Orders fail you?

Certainly, one of the central and most important strengths in the Scientific Method is the ability to adjust as new evidence becomes apparent. But for this very reason, nothing proposed by science can *ever* be an absolute. All things are true - until they aren't. While that is not a flaw in the method, it *is* a flaw in those who worship with blind adherence at the altar of "SCIENCE!"

Science offers us nothing but man's limited understanding of his own limited observations. It is a very powerful tool and it's certainly the apex of human achievement, but ultimately it does not and can not offer absolute truth.
 
2014-04-08 06:08:29 PM  

PIP_the_TROLL: Rebuttal: Gravity.


Double rebuttal: curved space.

PIP_the_TROLL: Ouch. Finally the ad hominem.


Not an "ad hominem", that would be saying you are wrong because of who you are.

It was an "insult", based on observation.  If you think that light slowing down in a dense medium is evidence that C is incorrect, you don't understand what C is.  I mean, why is it dark at the bottom of the Ocean?

You seem to be forgetting that Light is a wave and propagates in media just like any other wave.

That the scientists made a really dense medium that was still not opaque is interesting, but it doesn't invalidate C.

You think it does.

You are indeed a Wise Fool.

And I see your observation that you haven't met many Young Earth Creationists, and I raise you the Southern Baptist Convention, the second largest denomination in America, where Young Earth Creationism has been an article of faith since the Convention of 1982.

I present you my in-laws: Southern Baptists from Richmond Virginia, 100% YECs, attending any number of chain churches (like Cornerstone) where YEC is Doctrine.

Let the scales fall from your eyes.
 
2014-04-08 08:59:42 PM  

stuhayes2010: Satanic_Hamster: Catholics don't count as Christians to creationists, subby.

This.


A lot of the non-Catholic Christians arent too accepting of the Catholic tenet of "repent and ye shall be saved" either.

The Vatican has come a long way; relatively speaking.  And this current Pope is moving the church even more progressively.  Nearly enough for me to support them.  Nearly.
 
Displayed 50 of 151 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking

On Twitter





Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report