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(WTSP)   Research says intermittent fasting can lead to bad health habits. Like fasting intermittently   (wtsp.com) divider line 45
    More: Obvious, food science, National Institutes of Health  
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1216 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Apr 2014 at 11:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-07 11:51:19 AM  
A dietary approach that doesn't require buying our books and special meals? And it works? Bombing from orbit is the only solution.
 
2014-04-07 12:12:37 PM  

natazha: A dietary approach that doesn't require buying our books and special meals? And it works? Bombing from orbit is the only solution.


Ehh, as a used book dealer I've seen at least three diet books about intermittent fasting recently. Although the advice also shows up in the business/philosophy book Antifragile, which refers to things like  the letters of Seneca.

The paleo people have half a good idea. They miss the fact that your caveman ancestor really was feast and fast. A hardcore fast gets you into autophagy, and it's possible that's where the body goes and nips away at the problem proteins.
 
2014-04-07 12:15:07 PM  
I did that up-day/down-day a/k/a alternate day fasting for about 9 months, and it had great results.  I did M-W-F 'down', Tu/Th and weekends were eat-whatever-you-want. The down days were tough - I'd have a 150 cal protein shake with coffee for breakfast, then split two protein bars every 3 hours for the rest of the day.  But unlike persistent diets where foods are forbidden forever, you can eat whatever you want - just wait until tomorrow.  Obviously if you eat sensibly on the normal days - 5 smallish meals rather than gorging for lunch/dinner - you'll see better weight-loss results.

In lab studies on everything from mice to monkeys, it showed a dramatic increase in longevity (30% or so) and reduction in inflammation-related illnesses like arthritis, asthma, reduced type 2 diabetes risk.  You just have to have high-nutrient, high-protein, low-sugar food for the down days to rigorously control your intake.  If you waste your 800 calories on a pint of ice cream, your body is going to cannibalize protein from your muscle tissue, and then if you stop the diet, you'll metabolize fewer calories at rest than you did before.

But it's supposed to be a diet to stick to for life,  not something where you drop 20 lbs and quit.
 
2014-04-07 12:27:48 PM  
Don't fast.

Change your eating habits completely.

Neither is easy.

//Made conchas this weekend.  Muy bueno.
///Also ended the weekend lighter than I started it, but I busted my ass outside in the garden as well as inside playing Just Dance.
//Extra slashies burn calories
 
2014-04-07 12:31:31 PM  

wildcardjack: natazha: A dietary approach that doesn't require buying our books and special meals? And it works? Bombing from orbit is the only solution.

Ehh, as a used book dealer I've seen at least three diet books about intermittent fasting recently. Although the advice also shows up in the business/philosophy book Antifragile, which refers to things like  the letters of Seneca.

The paleo people have half a good idea. They miss the fact that your caveman ancestor really was feast and fast. A hardcore fast gets you into autophagy, and it's possible that's where the body goes and nips away at the problem proteins.


That's why I only follow about half of their ideas.  It's more of an inspiration for cooking than hard set rules.  Pretty much reduce the use of grains to once in a while, no processed sugar, no preservatives, no fillers, non-natural ingredients, etc.  Basically cooking from scratch with an emphasis on no carbs from grains.
 
2014-04-07 12:43:17 PM  

syrynxx: But unlike persistent diets where foods are forbidden forever


There's the problem, the first indication that a diet is stupid is that it starts with "don't eat / never eat / avoid $food".

A healthy diet is all about finding a maintainable balance, people shouldn't be "on a diet" they should "have a diet" and their diet shouldn't completely exclude any $food*.

The occasional slice of bacon, piece of bread or scoop of ice cream shouldn't put a dent in a well tuned diet.

*: allergies and sodium problems notwithstanding
 
2014-04-07 12:47:34 PM  
My intermittent benders=intermittent fasting.
 
2014-04-07 12:52:21 PM  

lordargent: syrynxx: But unlike persistent diets where foods are forbidden forever

There's the problem, the first indication that a diet is stupid is that it starts with "don't eat / never eat / avoid $food".

A healthy diet is all about finding a maintainable balance, people shouldn't be "on a diet" they should "have a diet" and their diet shouldn't completely exclude any $food*.

The occasional slice of bacon, piece of bread or scoop of ice cream shouldn't put a dent in a well tuned diet.

*: allergies and sodium problems notwithstanding


I more or less agree, with the caveat of avoiding some "foods" that are unnaturally bad for you. HFCS for instance...
 
2014-04-07 12:56:22 PM  
The way it was told to me was that IF involved going 12-18 hours without food, but then eating just about the same amount of calories in the rest of the day that you would eat in a normal day.  Although I might have misunderstood.

Myself, I'll stick with something that is pretty darn close to this:

Smeggy Smurf: reduce the use of grains to once in a while, no processed sugar, no preservatives, no fillers, non-natural ingredients, etc. Basically cooking from scratch with an emphasis on no carbs from grains.


Going this route I've lost over 40 lbs over the last 18 months or so.
 
2014-04-07 12:59:58 PM  

lordargent: A healthy diet is all about finding a maintainable balance, people shouldn't be "on a diet" they should "have a diet" and their diet shouldn't completely exclude any $food*.


Yeah, I ate anything I wanted on the normal days.  You don't want to overload and undo the efforts of the previous/next day, but there's zero guilt and zero cheating.  I worked in a place where I had four coworkers and my boss all eating their lunches in front of me while I ate half a protein bar, so it's not for the weak-willed.  So far today I've had greek yogurt, a protein bar, and half a homemade kale/banana/protein smoothie.  I would love a pizza for dinner but that'll have to wait until tomorrow.

Probably the worst days were starving myself all day and then caving in with a big dinner - which meant I needed to do the next day as low-calorie instead of normal.  You also can't really drink on down days.  One 150-calorie beer is a huge chunk of your daily calorie allotment.
 
2014-04-07 01:13:14 PM  

Uisce Beatha: The way it was told to me was that IF involved going 12-18 hours without food, but then eating just about the same amount of calories in the rest of the day that you would eat in a normal day.  Although I might have misunderstood.

Myself, I'll stick with something that is pretty darn close to this:
Smeggy Smurf: reduce the use of grains to once in a while, no processed sugar, no preservatives, no fillers, non-natural ingredients, etc. Basically cooking from scratch with an emphasis on no carbs from grains.

Going this route I've lost over 40 lbs over the last 18 months or so.


My wife is down 20 since mid December.  Me, I'm up 5.

/it's not a grain if it's fermented or distilled
 
2014-04-07 01:21:26 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: My wife is down 20 since mid December. Me, I'm up 5.


I found I was losing about a pound a week on average.  Slow enough that it's pointless to weigh yourself with any frequency, since your body fluctuates more than that in the course of a normal day.  But if you pick a healthy eating style and stick to it, the results will come eventually.  Nothing crazy like Atkins stuff, but also without the Atkins rebound.  I only started gaining weight again when I started drinking like a fish for a year or so.
 
2014-04-07 01:24:32 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: My wife is down 20 since mid December. Me, I'm up 5.

/it's not a grain if it's fermented or distilled


Yeah, I rarely drink anymore, either, so that's helped.  My wife is actually jealous that I have lost noticeably more than she has.  Of course, I had way more to lose.
 
2014-04-07 01:31:05 PM  

syrynxx: Smeggy Smurf: My wife is down 20 since mid December. Me, I'm up 5.

I found I was losing about a pound a week on average.  Slow enough that it's pointless to weigh yourself with any frequency, since your body fluctuates more than that in the course of a normal day.  But if you pick a healthy eating style and stick to it, the results will come eventually.  Nothing crazy like Atkins stuff, but also without the Atkins rebound.  I only started gaining weight again when I started drinking like a fish for a year or so.


Learn to love chard.  From there there is no end to the possibilities.  Soon you'll be making your own spice spreads from papaya seeds and people will want to give blowjobs for your miso soup
 
2014-04-07 01:49:15 PM  
I read that as Fisting. And wasn't surprised it was on the geek tab. Next up, Winger art.
 
2014-04-07 01:49:27 PM  

wildcardjack: natazha: A dietary approach that doesn't require buying our books and special meals? And it works? Bombing from orbit is the only solution.

Ehh, as a used book dealer I've seen at least three diet books about intermittent fasting recently. Although the advice also shows up in the business/philosophy book Antifragile, which refers to things like  the letters of Seneca.

The paleo people have half a good idea. They miss the fact that your caveman ancestor really was feast and fast. A hardcore fast gets you into autophagy, and it's possible that's where the body goes and nips away at the problem proteins.


We've also evolved a bit since our cavemen days, which a lot of paleo-enthusiasts don't seem to want to admit.  Our bodies aren't the same as they were a hundred thousand years ago, or even 12,000 years ago... and as a result our bodies' needs are different than they were that long ago.
 
2014-04-07 01:55:10 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Pretty much reduce the use of grains to once in a while, no processed sugar, no preservatives, no fillers, non-natural ingredients, etc.  Basically cooking from scratch with an emphasis on no carbs from grains.


Just doing this and giving up soda completely has me down 70lbs from last June. I'm (almost) smaller than I was in my early 20s. Give me a few more months!
 
2014-04-07 02:07:54 PM  
I noticed years ago when I tried to start smoking meth to lose weight. Id eat enough to make up for the meth whenever I came down, then some extra on top. Worst weight loss plan ever.
 
2014-04-07 02:10:34 PM  

D_Evans45: I noticed years ago when I tried to start smoking meth to lose weight. Id eat enough to make up for the meth whenever I came down, then some extra on top. Worst weight loss plan ever.


You have to really commit. Once you loose the teeth and don't buy food so you can afford the meth, the lbs really start falling off. Plus the high protein diet from all the cock sucking.

Good luck!
 
2014-04-07 02:13:21 PM  
SOUTH BRONX PARADISE BABY!
 
2014-04-07 02:34:12 PM  
Interesting.  This pretty much describes my normal eating habits.  Sometimes I go days without eating, sometimes I'll eat 6 meals in a single day.  My diet philosophy is "eat when hungry".
 
2014-04-07 02:54:50 PM  

Arctic Phoenix: wildcardjack: natazha: A dietary approach that doesn't require buying our books and special meals? And it works? Bombing from orbit is the only solution.

Ehh, as a used book dealer I've seen at least three diet books about intermittent fasting recently. Although the advice also shows up in the business/philosophy book Antifragile, which refers to things like  the letters of Seneca.

The paleo people have half a good idea. They miss the fact that your caveman ancestor really was feast and fast. A hardcore fast gets you into autophagy, and it's possible that's where the body goes and nips away at the problem proteins.

We've also evolved a bit since our cavemen days, which a lot of paleo-enthusiasts don't seem to want to admit.  Our bodies aren't the same as they were a hundred thousand years ago, or even 12,000 years ago... and as a result our bodies' needs are different than they were that long ago.


From an evolution standpoint, 10k years is a drop in the bucket... Especially with regards to chronic and late stage (ie after reproductive years) ailments since there is no pressure to remove them.
 
2014-04-07 02:58:22 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: wildcardjack: natazha: A dietary approach that doesn't require buying our books and special meals? And it works? Bombing from orbit is the only solution.

Ehh, as a used book dealer I've seen at least three diet books about intermittent fasting recently. Although the advice also shows up in the business/philosophy book Antifragile, which refers to things like  the letters of Seneca.

The paleo people have half a good idea. They miss the fact that your caveman ancestor really was feast and fast. A hardcore fast gets you into autophagy, and it's possible that's where the body goes and nips away at the problem proteins.

That's why I only follow about half of their ideas.  It's more of an inspiration for cooking than hard set rules.  Pretty much reduce the use of grains to once in a while, no processed sugar, no preservatives, no fillers, non-natural ingredients, etc.  Basically cooking from scratch with an emphasis on no carbs from grains.


I tried the Whole 30 diet with some success. It's Paleo-ish but stricter in some regards, as it's designed to reduce inflammation and avoid many allergy triggers.

Bonus: You can get the diet in full off their website. They say try it first for 30 days and then do whatever you want. They tell you what the diet is up front. That's how confident they are about it.

They say it will change the way you eat and it has. To this day I am still eating way more fruits and veggie than I ever have in my life, and I'm not dieting.
 
2014-04-07 02:59:07 PM  
I eat around 800 calories in Mondays. This consists of two eggs in the morning, raw veggies (broc, peppers, carrots, celery, cucs and tomatoes) for lunch with a slice or two of boars head lunch meat. Then I eat a brothy soup for dinner. I snack on fruit during the day. Then Monday-Thursday I eat the same for breakfast and lunch but add the dinner we eat as a family. Then on the weekends I eat what I want.

I just do light excercise when i can in addition to yard work.

I've lost 15-20lbs in right at a month and a half. The key is reducing calories with nutrient dense foods.
 
2014-04-07 03:02:28 PM  
I know a guy who's on a 10-day fast. All he drinks is water with some "amino acids" in it so he "won't loose too much muscle." He looks a lot thinner, but I can't imagine this is very good for his gut flora...
 
2014-04-07 03:13:02 PM  
If you cut the large fries and coke from your lunch, and dinner, youll be cutting hundreds and hundreds of calories out of your diet. Replace them with a TALL glass(es) of water, all the liquid in your gut will trick you into feeling full.

And of course if you exercise enough you can eat whatever you want. Takes effort but so worth it when youre realllly craving those munchies and just need to eat.
 
2014-04-07 03:13:42 PM  

syrynxx: I did that up-day/down-day a/k/a alternate day fasting for about 9 months, and it had great results.  I did M-W-F 'down', Tu/Th and weekends were eat-whatever-you-want. The down days were tough - I'd have a 150 cal protein shake with coffee for breakfast, then split two protein bars every 3 hours for the rest of the day.  But unlike persistent diets where foods are forbidden forever, you can eat whatever you want - just wait until tomorrow.  Obviously if you eat sensibly on the normal days - 5 smallish meals rather than gorging for lunch/dinner - you'll see better weight-loss results.

In lab studies on everything from mice to monkeys, it showed a dramatic increase in longevity (30% or so) and reduction in inflammation-related illnesses like arthritis, asthma, reduced type 2 diabetes risk.  You just have to have high-nutrient, high-protein, low-sugar food for the down days to rigorously control your intake.  If you waste your 800 calories on a pint of ice cream, your body is going to cannibalize protein from your muscle tissue, and then if you stop the diet, you'll metabolize fewer calories at rest than you did before.

But it's supposed to be a diet to stick to for life,  not something where you drop 20 lbs and quit.


So how do you handle getting enough fiber / other nutrition on the down days?

My TDEE seems to be around 2200 based on 3 week averages (I track everything I eat). I'm currently doing IF (3 'up' days at 2200, 4 'down' days at 1800) which is about 2000 cals average. Throw in a cheat day and I'm not losing any weight. So I'm considering a 1500 (4 down days) and 2100 (3 up days) split, which is 1750 average.

On the down days, I have trouble getting in enough protein (190 g) AND enough fiber / carbs to supply the next day's lifts. How do IF people typically get around this?
 
2014-04-07 03:16:14 PM  

Fonaibung: syrynxx: I did that up-day/down-day a/k/a alternate day fasting for about 9 months, and it had great results.  I did M-W-F 'down', Tu/Th and weekends were eat-whatever-you-want. The down days were tough - I'd have a 150 cal protein shake with coffee for breakfast, then split two protein bars every 3 hours for the rest of the day.  But unlike persistent diets where foods are forbidden forever, you can eat whatever you want - just wait until tomorrow.  Obviously if you eat sensibly on the normal days - 5 smallish meals rather than gorging for lunch/dinner - you'll see better weight-loss results.

In lab studies on everything from mice to monkeys, it showed a dramatic increase in longevity (30% or so) and reduction in inflammation-related illnesses like arthritis, asthma, reduced type 2 diabetes risk.  You just have to have high-nutrient, high-protein, low-sugar food for the down days to rigorously control your intake.  If you waste your 800 calories on a pint of ice cream, your body is going to cannibalize protein from your muscle tissue, and then if you stop the diet, you'll metabolize fewer calories at rest than you did before.

But it's supposed to be a diet to stick to for life,  not something where you drop 20 lbs and quit.

So how do you handle getting enough fiber / other nutrition on the down days?

My TDEE seems to be around 2200 based on 3 week averages (I track everything I eat). I'm currently doing IF (3 'up' days at 2200, 4 'down' days at 1800) which is about 2000 cals average. Throw in a cheat day and I'm not losing any weight. So I'm considering a 1500 (4 down days) and 2100 (3 up days) split, which is 1750 average.

On the down days, I have trouble getting in enough protein (190 g) AND enough fiber / carbs to supply the next day's lifts. How do IF people typically get around this?


16h fasts with first meal timed as post workout recovery?
 
2014-04-07 03:21:36 PM  

Caeldan: 16h fasts with first meal timed as post workout recovery?


Are you asking if that's what I'm doing, or is that meant to be an answer to my question?

I stop eating around 10 pm, work out at 7 am, and eat at noon. 14 hr fasts. First meal is ~5 hrs after lifting.

I'm not worried about the timing, I'm worried about getting the right nutrition. My LBM is ~155 lbs and I weigh 189 lbs. I'm taking in 1 g protein per lb of body mass, but I wonder if I should be reducing it to lb of LBM so I can expand the carb budget, including fiber. I just have this vision that most IF people have turds like rocks, and I don't want to go that route.
 
2014-04-07 03:26:03 PM  
Honestly, I've only tried IF intermittently but I would only do it max two days a week and timed the fast days with rest days so I didn't have to figure that part out.
 
2014-04-07 03:40:33 PM  

Caeldan: Honestly, I've only tried IF intermittently but I would only do it max two days a week and timed the fast days with rest days so I didn't have to figure that part out.


Heh, intermittent intermittent fasting.

Yeah, it's not a question I've seen many IF people address. The basics are very clear, but I have goals beyond just hitting the right macros and calories -- borrowing a little from leangains (RPT), and I'm into craft beer/whiskey, so I try to budget for that, as well.

I'm definitely not going to keep IF (at least the cycling part) for the long term, but it has made me comfortable with hunger, which has been a blessing in skipping shiatty free food offered at work, or during airport travel days.
 
2014-04-07 03:47:22 PM  

Fonaibung: Caeldan: Honestly, I've only tried IF intermittently but I would only do it max two days a week and timed the fast days with rest days so I didn't have to figure that part out.

Heh, intermittent intermittent fasting.

Yeah, it's not a question I've seen many IF people address. The basics are very clear, but I have goals beyond just hitting the right macros and calories -- borrowing a little from leangains (RPT), and I'm into craft beer/whiskey, so I try to budget for that, as well.

I'm definitely not going to keep IF (at least the cycling part) for the long term, but it has made me comfortable with hunger, which has been a blessing in skipping shiatty free food offered at work, or during airport travel days.


That's partly why I started it, so I can pull a 24h fast when I know that the alternative is a bunch of crappy food. Other reason was to see if I noticed any other differences.

Tried it regularly for about 6 weeks with the two days at 16h. but never really felt like it gave an improvement
 
2014-04-07 03:49:29 PM  
I think the best source for IF plus heavy workouts to maybe find your answer, is marks daily apple

He tends to be a proponent of if, in conjunction with a 'primal' lifestyle.
 
2014-04-07 05:04:03 PM  
I did a similar type of IF called fast-5. Lost about 65 pounds in 18 months. Then I hit a plateau and got stuck there for over a year. I never was able to break it.
 
2014-04-07 05:30:25 PM  
Eat, Fast and Live Longer - Horizon (BBC)

http://vimeo.com/54089463
 
2014-04-07 08:09:13 PM  
I did intermittent fasting and it worked to lose weight. My problem was it farked up my GI track to the point I couldn't trust a fart and the occasional race to the bathroom before I shiat my pants were enough for me to give it up.
 
2014-04-07 09:58:08 PM  

Caeldan: Arctic Phoenix: wildcardjack: natazha: A dietary approach that doesn't require buying our books and special meals? And it works? Bombing from orbit is the only solution.

Ehh, as a used book dealer I've seen at least three diet books about intermittent fasting recently. Although the advice also shows up in the business/philosophy book Antifragile, which refers to things like  the letters of Seneca.

The paleo people have half a good idea. They miss the fact that your caveman ancestor really was feast and fast. A hardcore fast gets you into autophagy, and it's possible that's where the body goes and nips away at the problem proteins.

We've also evolved a bit since our cavemen days, which a lot of paleo-enthusiasts don't seem to want to admit.  Our bodies aren't the same as they were a hundred thousand years ago, or even 12,000 years ago... and as a result our bodies' needs are different than they were that long ago.

From an evolution standpoint, 10k years is a drop in the bucket... Especially with regards to chronic and late stage (ie after reproductive years) ailments since there is no pressure to remove them.


Well, it depends on the species.  Chinchillas, for example, have very different dietary needs today (chinchillas in captivity mind you) than they did only a couple of hundred years ago.  Domesticated chinchillas can't survive on a diet they would receive in the wild, so while 10K years IS a small amount of time from an evolutionary standpoint, it's more about generations than it is years, per se.  And there have been many generations since the agricultural revolution, more than enough to change our species in a few ways.
 
2014-04-07 10:49:09 PM  

Arctic Phoenix: Caeldan: Arctic Phoenix: wildcardjack: natazha: A dietary approach that doesn't require buying our books and special meals? And it works? Bombing from orbit is the only solution.

Ehh, as a used book dealer I've seen at least three diet books about intermittent fasting recently. Although the advice also shows up in the business/philosophy book Antifragile, which refers to things like  the letters of Seneca.

The paleo people have half a good idea. They miss the fact that your caveman ancestor really was feast and fast. A hardcore fast gets you into autophagy, and it's possible that's where the body goes and nips away at the problem proteins.

We've also evolved a bit since our cavemen days, which a lot of paleo-enthusiasts don't seem to want to admit.  Our bodies aren't the same as they were a hundred thousand years ago, or even 12,000 years ago... and as a result our bodies' needs are different than they were that long ago.

From an evolution standpoint, 10k years is a drop in the bucket... Especially with regards to chronic and late stage (ie after reproductive years) ailments since there is no pressure to remove them.

Well, it depends on the species.  Chinchillas, for example, have very different dietary needs today (chinchillas in captivity mind you) than they did only a couple of hundred years ago.  Domesticated chinchillas can't survive on a diet they would receive in the wild, so while 10K years IS a small amount of time from an evolutionary standpoint, it's more about generations than it is years, per se.  And there have been many generations since the agricultural revolution, more than enough to change our species in a few ways.


Generations for a human are much longer than that of a chinchilla.

Also as I suggested, natural selection to force dietary changes isn't really a factor for humans. So that also would slow the rate down. Especially since people will consume things that they KNOW most definitely are bad for themselves.

Also the argument against grains generally runs more towards : there are a large number of people with various ranges of intolerance to grains, so eliminate and then reintroduce to see how you feel regarding certain ones.... And there is no actual dietary requirements for grains, they exist solely as a cheap source of carbohydrates which the western diet often overemphasizes anyway.
So limiting or restricting does no harm and potentially causes good, so why not?

Similar argument for dairy. Yes it's an easy source of calcium, but as an adult if you are eating a whole food diet you can quite easily reach your calcium requirements. And increase emphasis on the other minerals required for bones (since big dairy only ever talks about calcium obviously).

But it's another eliminate and reintroduce to see how you tolerate it.

And again, most proponents suggest an 80/20 strictness anyway outside of when following a specific elimination protocol to identify a problem food. So you still will have some dairy and grains likely through the week as it works out to about three 'cheat' meals a week.
 
2014-04-08 01:33:58 AM  
Similar argument for dairy. Yes it's an easy source of calcium, but as an adult if you are eating a whole food diet you can quite easily reach your calcium requirements. And increase emphasis on the other minerals required for bones (since big dairy only ever talks about calcium obviously).

For men maybe. Most middle aged women I know have to take calcium supplements or risk osteoporosis even with today's diets. Which brings me to the question I ask Paleo buffs - If they didn't eat dairy, how did cave women counter the calcium sapping from their birth control?

/different needs require different diets
 
2014-04-08 02:49:28 AM  

NotARocketScientist: Similar argument for dairy. Yes it's an easy source of calcium, but as an adult if you are eating a whole food diet you can quite easily reach your calcium requirements. And increase emphasis on the other minerals required for bones (since big dairy only ever talks about calcium obviously).

For men maybe. Most middle aged women I know have to take calcium supplements or risk osteoporosis even with today's diets. Which brings me to the question I ask Paleo buffs - If they didn't eat dairy, how did cave women counter the calcium sapping from their birth control?

/different needs require different diets


It's been a while since I did the reading on it - so I don't have exact specifics... but I believe some of the argument (for women included) is that there's too much focus on Calcium requirement, not enough on the other minerals (magnesium being the big one for example - which calcium inhibits, and Vitamin D being another).  Also, that by eliminating other foods you're eliminating some of the agents that work against calcium uptake and retention.  Finally, there are quite a few foods out there that do just as good a job if not better than milk to provide calcium (such as just making your own bone broth).  Also, hard cheeses (and grass-fed dairy) are typically 'allowed' (and even recommended by some) if you don't actually have any lactose or casein intolerance.

Here's one link to the general summary of most of the arguments as related to women:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/calcium-for-women/#axzz2yH6EowiI
 
2014-04-08 05:27:03 AM  
Meh.  You can also lead your body into a trap.  If it think's it's starving, it can kick into a mode where it hoards more of the fat that you intake.
/colloquial phrasing, the body doesn't "think"
//the stomach's natural tendency to "shrink" when not getting enough food may be a factor that balances out for that, artificially limiting the "free/binge" days
 
2014-04-08 06:42:01 AM  

NotARocketScientist: Similar argument for dairy. Yes it's an easy source of calcium, but as an adult if you are eating a whole food diet you can quite easily reach your calcium requirements. And increase emphasis on the other minerals required for bones (since big dairy only ever talks about calcium obviously).

For men maybe. Most middle aged women I know have to take calcium supplements or risk osteoporosis even with today's diets. Which brings me to the question I ask Paleo buffs - If they didn't eat dairy, how did cave women counter the calcium sapping from their birth control?

/different needs require different diets


A lot of the "paleo" folks I know actually sick to a primal diet instead, which allows for some dairy

 http://www.wellfedhomestead.com/gaps-vs-paleo
 
2014-04-08 08:55:37 AM  

Uisce Beatha: The way it was told to me was that IF involved going 12-18 hours without food, but then eating just about the same amount of calories in the rest of the day that you would eat in a normal day.  Although I might have misunderstood.

Myself, I'll stick with something that is pretty darn close to this:
Smeggy Smurf: reduce the use of grains to once in a while, no processed sugar, no preservatives, no fillers, non-natural ingredients, etc. Basically cooking from scratch with an emphasis on no carbs from grains.

Going this route I've lost over 40 lbs over the last 18 months or so.


Son, that's called the alcoholic diet.
 
2014-04-08 06:18:52 PM  

omeganuepsilon: Meh.  You can also lead your body into a trap.  If it think's it's starving, it can kick into a mode where it hoards more of the fat that you intake.
/colloquial phrasing, the body doesn't "think"
//the stomach's natural tendency to "shrink" when not getting enough food may be a factor that balances out for that, artificially limiting the "free/binge" days


That's actually a myth that's been floating around and is not really a concern for most people.  It takes 72-96 hours of "starvation" for your body to kick into storing mode where it will horde proteins - that's a lot longer to go without eating than any intermittent fasting diet will recommend.  In fact between 6 and 72 hours your bodies metabolism actually speeds up - which fits into the normal intermittent fasting window.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
 
2014-04-08 07:08:20 PM  

Cytokine Storm: omeganuepsilon: Meh.  You can also lead your body into a trap.  If it think's it's starving, it can kick into a mode where it hoards more of the fat that you intake.
/colloquial phrasing, the body doesn't "think"
//the stomach's natural tendency to "shrink" when not getting enough food may be a factor that balances out for that, artificially limiting the "free/binge" days

That's actually a myth that's been floating around and is not really a concern for most people.  It takes 72-96 hours of "starvation" for your body to kick into storing mode where it will horde proteins - that's a lot longer to go without eating than any intermittent fasting diet will recommend.  In fact between 6 and 72 hours your bodies metabolism actually speeds up - which fits into the normal intermittent fasting window.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response


Your citation is irrelevant, because it's about literal starvation(with no time frame), just an account of what happens when one continually goes without food.

I'm talking about things that can trigger fat storage instead of burning or passing it right back out again.  Fasting can cause the human body to do differing things. For example, insulin levels fluctuating, that is a huge driver in fat storage.  Stresses and hormones can also be drivers.

This can all alter your digestion and metabolism, and if you factor in what the actual food is that you eat on your "free" days, any medications and how much water is drank(or diet soda which can heavily fark with insulin) etc etc etc.  Even when you eat on your free days(carbs before bed?, Hellllloooooo weight gain!)

As I said, your body doesn't "think".  I was speaking colloquially.  The system for how we process what we eat is very complex, and sometimes minor changes can have huge impacts, and certainly multiple small things can pile up.

Simply not eating one day, and then eating whatever you want(and however much you want), can and will have varying effects.
 
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