If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Omaha World Herald)   If you're selling illegal drugs in Nebraska, you better have state-issued drug tax stamps. It doesn't make the drug sales legal, but you can be charged for not having one   (omaha.com) divider line 108
    More: Asinine, Nebraska, drug traffickers, drug tax stamps, Wisconsin Department of Revenue, Nebraska State Patrol, self-incriminations, Bill O'Brien, taverns  
•       •       •

3488 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Apr 2014 at 10:02 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



108 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2014-04-06 07:52:16 PM
Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?
 
2014-04-06 08:32:27 PM

NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?


Did they?  I know they used to have tax stamps for industrial hemp.  It was actually a way to do a "back door ban" on hemp.  Require a tax stamp to grow it and then refuse to issue them to anyone.
 
2014-04-06 08:48:02 PM

NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?


Arizona has/had a similar law (which I believe predates Nevada's). It was used to confiscate random J Public's property, before our current forfeiture laws allowed them to just take everything you have if they feel like it.
 
2014-04-06 09:21:27 PM
They should have murder stamps.
 
2014-04-06 10:05:58 PM
Technically any omission of income from being self employed (selling drugs) could get you in trouble with state and federal tax collectors.
 
2014-04-06 10:07:43 PM
Did submitter just wake up from a coma?
 
2014-04-06 10:09:11 PM
You know who else forgot to pay his taxes?
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-06 10:11:01 PM
I always heard Omaha Stamps was an over priced product, anyway.
 
2014-04-06 10:11:48 PM

MBooda: You know who else forgot to pay his taxes?



That's Robert DeNiro. You're probably thinking of Wesley Snipes.
 
2014-04-06 10:13:19 PM

MBooda: You know who else forgot to pay his taxes?
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 525x303]


THAT'S the Omaha way!
 
2014-04-06 10:14:49 PM
If one were a hardcore stamp collector, you might feel very conflicted. Yes, it would be a very rare piece, but is it worth getting your dog shot by a roided-out SWAT member while he tears your house apart looking for the demon marijuana?
 
2014-04-06 10:16:20 PM
Not uncommon.  The IRS has a excise tax and a tax return that illegal bookmakers are suppose to file.  If they don't they can get into trouble, and if they do, the IRS can't share this information with any other agency, because of the Privacy Act.  There were bookies who filed their returns and paid their tax.
 
2014-04-06 10:17:28 PM
I need one for my forever stamp collection.
 
2014-04-06 10:18:20 PM

fusillade762: They should have murder stamps.


Kinda fits in with my first thought of "the mafia would let you tax them?" Ahahahahahaha!
 
2014-04-06 10:19:55 PM

HenryFnord: MBooda: You know who else forgot to pay his taxes?


That's Robert DeNiro. You're probably thinking of Wesley Snipes.


May have been talking about the character.
 
2014-04-06 10:19:57 PM
Or, you could just try not selling illegal drugs in Nebraska. Your choice.
 
2014-04-06 10:20:33 PM

chaddsfarkprefect: I always heard Omaha Stamps was an over priced product, anyway.


www.tagohio.com
 
2014-04-06 10:20:41 PM
Subby must live under a rock.  A rock without television, newspapers, magazines, or the internet.
 
2014-04-06 10:23:32 PM

Ambivalence: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Did they?  I know they used to have tax stamps for industrial hemp.  It was actually a way to do a "back door ban" on hemp.  Require a tax stamp to grow it and then refuse to issue them to anyone.


Exactly. Unconstitutional.
 
2014-04-06 10:23:42 PM
You know, we recently had a arrest in my town (in Kansas, 15 miles south of the Nebraskan border) that included charges of having no tax stamps. I thought it was weird then too.
 
2014-04-06 10:23:43 PM
Its unconstitutional and they know it. Will anything change? Not in states like Nebraska. Even if they made all drugs legal they would just find another way to steal your money.
 
2014-04-06 10:25:44 PM
I thought this was the norm for most states.
 
2014-04-06 10:33:11 PM

chaddsfarkprefect: I always heard Omaha Stamps was an over priced product, anyway.


I assume you are trying to draw an allusion to omaha steaks in which you are sadly mistaken if you think you can find a better flash frozen plastic wrapped chunk 'o beef this side of trump steaks available exclusively through the sharper image
 
2014-04-06 10:35:28 PM

fusillade762: They should have murder stamps.


Most stamps have dead people on them....does that count?
 
2014-04-06 10:41:41 PM

CruJones: Subby must live under a rock.  A rock without television, newspapers, magazines, or the internet.


So a rock in Nebraska?
 
2014-04-06 10:44:43 PM
Hmmm...

www.pbs.org
 
2014-04-06 10:44:46 PM

NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?


Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.
 
2014-04-06 10:46:00 PM

NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?


Yes.  Repeatedly, in every state that tries this shiat.
 
2014-04-06 10:50:31 PM

NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?


No.

It was requiring a stamp for drugs, but in order to get the stamp you needed the drugs. The law required you break the law you were attempting to comply with, which DQd you from being able to follow it.

iow. .. entrapment.

requiring a tax stamp is okay, provided you can get the stamp without breaking the law
 
2014-04-06 10:50:50 PM
Ahhh........ another self righteous, money whore politician........
 
2014-04-06 10:52:47 PM

NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?


IIRC, no--or at least, there are ways to do them that are ironclad, but maybe not great for the purposes of tax collection.

Basically, you have to make it so easy to pay your illegal drug taxes that you can't incriminate yourself simply by the process of acquiring them. Hence tax stamps, which can be bought and sold in their own right through third (and fourth and fifth) parties, as opposed to a 1040-D-for-Drugs tax  return. Also, the state cops can't park someone outside the tax stamp office to follow back to a meth lab, and the tax office can't share any information with investigators (or even collect your name).

If you make it any more stringent than that, the tax law basically becomes a rule requiring criminals to notify authorities of their crimes, which the Fifth Amendment then stomps all over. So as someone above already said, it's basically only a means for states to seize assets without bothering with forfeiture laws, and making a few bucks off giggling stoners who want an ironic tax stamp to decorate their dorm room with.

What I'm curious is how states decide how  much to tax illegal drugs. There's nothing unconstitutional about making the tax a trillion percent, but then of course nobody would buy them. Which means that if they've set the tax anywhere below that, they're either saying "these drugs are bad but not so bad we're going to try to price them out of the market" or they're dragging out their microeconomics textbooks and trying to figure out the ideal revenue-maximizing strategy.

Come to think of it, I bet with inflation, some of those drugs that are taxed on a fixed cost per unit basis are actually taxed at a lower rate than the state sales tax. Unless they're going in every year and updating the laws, which I doubt.
 
2014-04-06 10:55:13 PM

twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.


Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.
 
2014-04-06 10:55:14 PM

twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.


FTA:
No name is required for drug tax stamp purchases because buying them might entail a form of self-incrimination.

They are a gray zone....
 
2014-04-06 10:58:53 PM

semiotix: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

IIRC, no--or at least, there are ways to do them that are ironclad, but maybe not great for the purposes of tax collection.

Basically, you have to make it so easy to pay your illegal drug taxes that you can't incriminate yourself simply by the process of acquiring them. Hence tax stamps, which can be bought and sold in their own right through third (and fourth and fifth) parties, as opposed to a 1040-D-for-Drugs tax  return. Also, the state cops can't park someone outside the tax stamp office to follow back to a meth lab, and the tax office can't share any information with investigators (or even collect your name).

If you make it any more stringent than that, the tax law basically becomes a rule requiring criminals to notify authorities of their crimes, which the Fifth Amendment then stomps all over. So as someone above already said, it's basically only a means for states to seize assets without bothering with forfeiture laws, and making a few bucks off giggling stoners who want an ironic tax stamp to decorate their dorm room with.

What I'm curious is how states decide how  much to tax illegal drugs. There's nothing unconstitutional about making the tax a trillion percent, but then of course nobody would buy them. Which means that if they've set the tax anywhere below that, they're either saying "these drugs are bad but not so bad we're going to try to price them out of the market" or they're dragging out their microeconomics textbooks and trying to figure out the ideal revenue-maximizing strategy.

Come to think of it, I bet with inflation, some of those drugs that are taxed on a fixed cost per unit basis are actually taxed at a lower rate than the state sales tax. Unless they're going in every year and updating the laws, which I doubt.


Tennessee's stamp law was ruled unconstitutional by the state courts because it required self-incrimination. The same thing happened in Wisconsin. Illinois' stamp law was ruled unconstitutional by the state Supreme Court because it subjected those charged with drug crimes to double jeopardy.
 
2014-04-06 10:58:59 PM

DORMAMU: It was requiring a stamp for drugs, but in order to get the stamp you needed the drugs. The law required you break the law you were attempting to comply with, which DQd you from being able to follow it.

iow. .. entrapment.


That may be a legal catch-22, but it wouldn't be entrapment.
 
2014-04-06 11:00:31 PM

twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.


The problem in Leary was twofold: the form required to register for and pay the tax disclosed the identity of the person paying the tax, and was explicitly shared with law enforcement.

As far as I'm aware, states which have sales-tax stamps for drugs all work around that by not requiring the identity of the purchaser, and by refusing to share information from the tax collection with law enforcement. Since that means you can pay the tax without subjecting yourself to (additional) risk of prosecution, it should hold up.
 
2014-04-06 11:02:30 PM

DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.


The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.
 
2014-04-06 11:05:01 PM

Semantic Warrior: Technically any omission of income from being self employed (selling drugs) could get you in trouble with state and federal tax collectors.


Bingo, I came here to say that. Tax evasion is a separate crime from drug dealing.
 
2014-04-06 11:08:12 PM
I once had a pretty rare drug stamp.
Back in the days of my misspent youth, I (ahem) ran across a stamp that was wrapped around what looked like a brown wax crayon.
Let's just say it wasn't exactly a brown wax crayon and move on, shall we?
But on that little item was a stamp with what looked like Arabic lettering on it. It wasn't. It was Farsi (Persian)
I finally managed to get it translated.
It was a drug stamp, issued in Iran shortly after the Iranian Revolution, but by the group opposing  Ayatollah Khomeini.
I suppose it was that groups attempt to raise funds to oppose the recent takeover (this was very shortly after the takeover and the crayon was very fresh)
 
2014-04-06 11:16:26 PM

twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.


Not sure how the short barrel shotgun tax stamp is comparable, short barrel shotguns are legal if you've paid the tax.
 
2014-04-06 11:18:25 PM

twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.


You most likely correct if someone wanted to be a dick and do that.

But tax stamps are also used for liquorsales and what not in many states. That would be an interesting case to listen in on
 
2014-04-06 11:20:01 PM

DarkVader: twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.

Not sure how the short barrel shotgun tax stamp is comparable, short barrel shotguns are legal if you've paid the tax.


The poster I was responding to suggested that they were illegal, even if you paid the tax. I don't know a whole lot about firearms and the laws regarding them, as I do not own a firearm and I have no desire to own one. If they are legal (provided you get the ATF stamp), then the analogy is irrelevant, no?
 
2014-04-06 11:20:10 PM

poot_rootbeer: DORMAMU: It was requiring a stamp for drugs, but in order to get the stamp you needed the drugs. The law required you break the law you were attempting to comply with, which DQd you from being able to follow it.

iow. .. entrapment.

That may be a legal catch-22, but it wouldn't be entrapment.


Aah but it is.

The government was encouraging individuals to get the stamp... but to get the stamp you had to break the law at the the behest of the government.
 
2014-04-06 11:22:07 PM

DORMAMU: twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.

You most likely correct if someone wanted to be a dick and do that.

But tax stamps are also used for liquorsales and what not in many states. That would be an interesting case to listen in on


Tax stamps have no constitutional issues if the items they are required for are legal. There is no self-incrimination if what you are doing is not against the law
 
2014-04-06 11:26:24 PM

twat_waffle: DarkVader: twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.

Not sure how the short barrel shotgun tax stamp is comparable, short barrel shotguns are legal if you've paid the tax.

The poster I was responding to suggested that they were illegal, even if you paid the tax. I don't know a whole lot about firearms and the laws regarding them, as I do not own a firearm and I have no desire to own one. If they are legal (provided you get the ATF stamp), then the analogy is irrelevant, no?


I was comparing tax stamp to tax stamp.

In many states, a saw off shotgun is illegal. Their is a federal statute that allows you to to get a tax stamp for a shorter Barrell & remain legal. The thing is, you don't necessarily need the item (the shotgun) to get the stamp.

As far as drugs go, they are illegal. Therefore their legal value is $0.00. How do you tax something with no legal value?
 
2014-04-06 11:27:07 PM

twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.

You most likely correct if someone wanted to be a dick and do that.

But tax stamps are also used for liquorsales and what not in many states. That would be an interesting case to listen in on

Tax stamps have no constitutional issues if the items they are required for are legal. There is no self-incrimination if what you are doing is not against the law


Exactly.
 
2014-04-06 11:29:48 PM

ubernostrum: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

The problem in Leary was twofold: the form required to register for and pay the tax disclosed the identity of the person paying the tax, and was explicitly shared with law enforcement.

As far as I'm aware, states which have sales-tax stamps for drugs all work around that by not requiring the identity of the purchaser, and by refusing to share information from the tax collection with law enforcement. Since that means you can pay the tax without subjecting yourself to (additional) risk of prosecution, it should hold up.


Except that it hasn't held up.

They've been ruled unconstitutional in Kansas, Illinois, Tennessee, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, and probably other states.  It doesn't seem to have made it to the federal courts yet, at least in a published decision, but I doubt any drug tax stamp law would survive a federal challenge.
 
2014-04-06 11:32:42 PM

DORMAMU: twat_waffle: DarkVader: twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.

Not sure how the short barrel shotgun tax stamp is comparable, short barrel shotguns are legal if you've paid the tax.

The poster I was responding to suggested that they were illegal, even if you paid the tax. I don't know a whole lot about firearms and the laws regarding them, as I do not own a firearm and I have no desire to own one. If they are legal (provided you get the ATF stamp), then the analogy is irrelevant, no?

I was comparing tax stamp to tax stamp.

In many states, a saw off shotgun is illegal. Their is a federal statute that allows you to to get a tax stamp for a shorter Barrell & remain legal. The thing is, you don't necessarily need the item (the shotgun) to get the stamp.

As far as drugs go, they are illegal. Therefore their legal value is $0.00. How do you tax something with no legal value?


These are individual states with drug tax stamp laws. The analogy falls because everywhere under the jurisdiction of these states that require the stamps, drugs are illegal.

Short barrel shotguns are legal in about half the United States, so long as the requisite tax is paid.
 
2014-04-06 11:33:39 PM
Why isn't this revenue subject to civil forfeiture, given that the state is profiting from illegal activities?
 
2014-04-06 11:33:46 PM

DarkVader: ubernostrum: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

The problem in Leary was twofold: the form required to register for and pay the tax disclosed the identity of the person paying the tax, and was explicitly shared with law enforcement.

As far as I'm aware, states which have sales-tax stamps for drugs all work around that by not requiring the identity of the purchaser, and by refusing to share information from the tax collection with law enforcement. Since that means you can pay the tax without subjecting yourself to (additional) risk of prosecution, it should hold up.

Except that it hasn't held up.

They've been ruled unconstitutional in Kansas, Illinois, Tennessee, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, and probably other states.  It doesn't seem to have made it to the federal courts yet, at least in a published decision, but I doubt any drug tax stamp law would survive a federal challenge.


In Illinois, it was ruled unconstitutional for double jeopardy reasons, not self-incrimination reasons.
 
2014-04-06 11:35:12 PM

twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: DarkVader: twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.

Not sure how the short barrel shotgun tax stamp is comparable, short barrel shotguns are legal if you've paid the tax.

The poster I was responding to suggested that they were illegal, even if you paid the tax. I don't know a whole lot about firearms and the laws regarding them, as I do not own a firearm and I have no desire to own one. If they are legal (provided you get the ATF stamp), then the analogy is irrelevant, no?

I was comparing tax stamp to tax stamp.

In many states, a saw off shotgun is illegal. Their is a federal statute that allows you to to get a tax stamp for a shorter Barrell & remain legal. The thing is, you don't necessarily need the item (the shotgun) to get the stamp.

As far as drugs go, they are illegal. Therefore their legal value is $0.00. How do you tax something with no legal value?

These are individual states with drug tax stamp laws. The analogy falls because everywhere under the jurisdiction of these states that require the stamps, drugs are illegal.

Short barrel shotguns are legal in about half the United States, so long as the requisite tax is paid.


White flag waived
 
2014-04-06 11:35:24 PM

lindalouwho: HenryFnord: MBooda: You know who else forgot to pay his taxes?


That's Robert DeNiro. You're probably thinking of Wesley Snipes.

May have been talking about the character.


I didn't know Jake LaMotta had tax problems
 
2014-04-06 11:42:44 PM

doglover: Ambivalence: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Did they?  I know they used to have tax stamps for industrial hemp.  It was actually a way to do a "back door ban" on hemp.  Require a tax stamp to grow it and then refuse to issue them to anyone.

Exactly. Unconstitutional.


That's not why those stamp requirements were unconstitutional. It was because in order to get them you had to have the substance in question already in hand, but if you did that then you were in violation of the law.
 
2014-04-06 11:42:47 PM
twat_waffle:
Tennessee's stamp law was ruled unconstitutional by the state courts because it required self-incrimination.

Tennessee changed how they do it to remove self-incrimination.

http://www.tn.gov/revenue/faqs/unauthsubfaq.shtml
 
2014-04-06 11:43:11 PM

img.youtube.com


There aren't going to be any permits tax stamps.


How can you get a permit  tax stamp to do a damned illegal thing?

 
2014-04-06 11:50:27 PM

redcard: twat_waffle:
Tennessee's stamp law was ruled unconstitutional by the state courts because it required self-incrimination.

Tennessee changed how they do it to remove self-incrimination.

http://www.tn.gov/revenue/faqs/unauthsubfaq.shtml


I don't think that the changes are enough. Didn't the original law say something about preserving anonymity?
 
2014-04-07 12:02:49 AM
The State of Nebraska wanted its drug tax stamp to look scary, to deter illegal drug possession.

Then why does it look like a Grateful Dead album cover?
 
2014-04-07 12:05:39 AM

Quaker: doglover: Ambivalence: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Did they?  I know they used to have tax stamps for industrial hemp.  It was actually a way to do a "back door ban" on hemp.  Require a tax stamp to grow it and then refuse to issue them to anyone.

Exactly. Unconstitutional.

That's not why those stamp requirements were unconstitutional. It was because in order to get them you had to have the substance in question already in hand, but if you did that then you were in violation of the law.


There's all kinds of reasons they'd be unconstitutional. They're also morally reprehensible and make things doubly and treblely illegal. So much wrong with the whole idea.
 
2014-04-07 12:10:25 AM

DORMAMU: As far as drugs go, they are illegal. Therefore their legal value is $0.00. How do you tax something with no legal value?


A flat tax by weight or portion.
 
2014-04-07 12:19:53 AM

DigitalCoffee: How can you get a permit  tax stamp to do a damned illegal thing?


That's all that permits do. They're called "permits" because they "permit", if you will, the bearer to break the law. If you have a permit, what you are doing is still illegal, but you are not subject to penalties for it through the grace of the state in declining to prosecute you for it.
 
2014-04-07 12:20:48 AM

ElLoco: DORMAMU: As far as drugs go, they are illegal. Therefore their legal value is $0.00. How do you tax something with no legal value?

A flat tax by weight or portion.


Based on what value? Any percentage of 0 is 0.
 
2014-04-07 12:23:40 AM
The similar tax in Nevada was largely rendered unenforceable by the state's Supreme Court about eight years after it was enacted.  They didn't rule it unconstitutional, but due to double jeopardy, they said that a person had to either be charged with criminal drug penalties or the tax could be levied as a civil offense, but not both.

To my knowledge, since no one is willing to pay the tax voluntarily, this has meant that the state has received no money from this tax since.
 
2014-04-07 12:25:15 AM

untaken_name: ElLoco: DORMAMU: As far as drugs go, they are illegal. Therefore their legal value is $0.00. How do you tax something with no legal value?

A flat tax by weight or portion.

Based on what value? Any percentage of 0 is 0.


Also.. by taxing it you are adding a value to that which is illegal and by legal definition worthless
 
2014-04-07 12:33:41 AM

untaken_name: ElLoco: DORMAMU: As far as drugs go, they are illegal. Therefore their legal value is $0.00. How do you tax something with no legal value?

A flat tax by weight or portion.

Based on what value? Any percentage of 0 is 0.


It isn't based on any value. It's a flat tax. Drive to Mexico and buy a 750l bottle of booze. When you come back across the border, you pay a fixed fee for a tax stamp for a 750l bottle. Doesn't matter if it has 3 bucks worth of mescal in it or 30 bucks of rum in it. Same for a case of beer, a 350l bottle of tequila, a 1.75l bottle, etc., etc.

DORMAMU: untaken_name: ElLoco: DORMAMU: As far as drugs go, they are illegal. Therefore their legal value is $0.00. How do you tax something with no legal value?

A flat tax by weight or portion.

Based on what value? Any percentage of 0 is 0.

Also.. by taxing it you are adding a value to that which is illegal and by legal definition worthless


That's not how taxes work.
 
2014-04-07 12:35:49 AM

Fabric_Man: If one were a hardcore stamp collector, you might feel very conflicted. Yes, it would be a very rare piece, but is it worth getting your dog shot by a roided-out SWAT member while he tears your house apart looking for the demon marijuana?


Sort of.  As I understand it, when it comes out(and it usually does) that they used your purchase of the stamp as an excuse to raid you the payoff for improper arrest would be glorious.

Of course, as has been mentioned they figure everybody buying them are doing so as collectors.

DORMAMU: The thing is, you don't necessarily need the item (the shotgun) to get the stamp.


If you want to be completely legal, you have to have the stamp in hand before you pick up or modify the shotgun in question.  Once you have the stamp in hand, you are free to take a hacksaw to the barrel.
 
2014-04-07 12:37:51 AM
Eh. I meant to use .750l, not 750l.

I've never found any 750 liter bottles in Mexico. I've looked.
 
2014-04-07 12:39:37 AM

happyleper: The similar tax in Nevada was largely rendered unenforceable by the state's Supreme Court about eight years after it was enacted. They didn't rule it unconstitutional, but due to double jeopardy, they said that a person had to either be charged with criminal drug penalties or the tax could be levied as a civil offense, but not both.


Wouldn't this translate to 'you pay the tax ahead of time and they can't charge you criminally for it?'.
 
2014-04-07 12:43:34 AM
Uh...this is actually very common.

And very old news.
 
2014-04-07 12:44:26 AM

Firethorn: happyleper: The similar tax in Nevada was largely rendered unenforceable by the state's Supreme Court about eight years after it was enacted. They didn't rule it unconstitutional, but due to double jeopardy, they said that a person had to either be charged with criminal drug penalties or the tax could be levied as a civil offense, but not both.

Wouldn't this translate to 'you pay the tax ahead of time and they can't charge you criminally for it?'.


No -- the court only said that they couldn't use both as a penalty due to double jeopardy.  If a person paid the tax willingly, they still would only be punished once if criminal charges were brought forward.
 
2014-04-07 12:58:45 AM
Iowa had them--- to strengthen pot sentencing-- like it wasn't harsh enough?!?
 
2014-04-07 12:59:29 AM
Subby the pre-Internet 1990s wants its headline back.
 
2014-04-07 01:07:06 AM

doglover: Quaker: doglover: Ambivalence: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Did they?  I know they used to have tax stamps for industrial hemp.  It was actually a way to do a "back door ban" on hemp.  Require a tax stamp to grow it and then refuse to issue them to anyone.

Exactly. Unconstitutional.

That's not why those stamp requirements were unconstitutional. It was because in order to get them you had to have the substance in question already in hand, but if you did that then you were in violation of the law.

There's all kinds of reasons they'd be unconstitutional. They're also morally reprehensible and make things doubly and treblely illegal. So much wrong with the whole idea.


I was thinking specifically of Leary v. United States which incited Congress to overturn the Marihuana Tax Act.
 
2014-04-07 01:07:27 AM
A joint in front of a skull... Hmmm... Good choice. How many marijuanas does it take to OD I wonder?
 
2014-04-07 01:35:54 AM

Brainsick: lindalouwho: HenryFnord: MBooda: You know who else forgot to pay his taxes?


That's Robert DeNiro. You're probably thinking of Wesley Snipes.

May have been talking about the character.

I didn't know Jake LaMotta had tax problems


I can't rightly say that he did. Comment was based only on speculation that a man who was married 7 times just might have had a problem with taxes...
 
2014-04-07 01:42:49 AM

ElLoco: It isn't based on any value. It's a flat tax. Drive to Mexico and buy a 750l bottle of booze. When you come back across the border, you pay a fixed fee for a tax stamp for a 750l bottle. Doesn't matter if it has 3 bucks worth of mescal in it or 30 bucks of rum in it. Same for a case of beer, a 350l bottle of tequila, a 1.75l bottle, etc., etc.


Again, based on what value? A 750ml bottle of tequila has a legally recognized worth. So does every other bottle you mentioned. There is no legal value for illegal drugs, therefore there is no possible method of assigning worth to them, which then by definition precludes taxes on them since you cannot tax that which has no worth. Your example is not one where the contents of the bottle have no value, but where the value of the bottles has been legally determined to be equal. That's not the same thing.
 
2014-04-07 01:45:36 AM

OOBE Juan Kenobi: A joint in front of a skull... Hmmm... Good choice. How many marijuanas does it take to OD I wonder?


Three, if injected whole.
 
2014-04-07 01:51:08 AM

chaddsfarkprefect: I always heard Omaha Stamps was an over priced product, anyway.


The feeling's mutual.
 
2014-04-07 01:52:38 AM
Another big government regulation to kill off the job creating small businesses.

Thanks Omaha!

/How am I doin'?
 
2014-04-07 02:21:42 AM
Arizona did this 20 years ago, but it backfired on them as they were flooded with requests from stamp collectors and eventually a judge found it to be 'double jeopardy', in that, the state was selling you a tax stamp for an illegal product, and if you were busted without one, you were already being punished for the crime of possession/distribution, and then the state was going to turn around and charge you again for the same crime.

Nebraska is dumb as hell.
 
2014-04-07 02:30:03 AM
I'm no law-talking-guy, but that smells like double jeopardy to me.
 
2014-04-07 02:46:12 AM
What about requiring the same thing for prostitution?

Would give a new meaning to the term "Tramp Stamp"


/lick it.
 
2014-04-07 03:09:38 AM

Resident Muslim: "Tramp Stamp"


3.bp.blogspot.com

Tramp stamp? Sounds like peonage laws. Those are un-Constitutional.
 
2014-04-07 03:27:24 AM

doglover: Quaker: doglover: Ambivalence: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Did they?  I know they used to have tax stamps for industrial hemp.  It was actually a way to do a "back door ban" on hemp.  Require a tax stamp to grow it and then refuse to issue them to anyone.

Exactly. Unconstitutional.

That's not why those stamp requirements were unconstitutional. It was because in order to get them you had to have the substance in question already in hand, but if you did that then you were in violation of the law.

There's all kinds of reasons they'd be unconstitutional. They're also morally reprehensible and make things doubly and treblely illegal. So much wrong with the whole idea.


There's no reason why it's unconstitutional, if implemented correctly. I agree it's stupid to prosecute people for selling drugs, but tax evasion is a separate issue. I'm all for prosecuting people for that. I believe legalize and tax is the way to go.
 
2014-04-07 03:36:34 AM

untaken_name: Resident Muslim: "Tramp Stamp"



Tramp stamp? Sounds like peonage laws. Those are un-Constitutional.


Man, Dumbledore has fallen on hard times.
I thought he died.


/haz a sad for old people unable to help themselves
 
2014-04-07 04:31:31 AM
Link is down - but I did find this article with a photo of the stamp. Looks pretty cool actually, I'm sure collectors would buy them.

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/09/nebraska_drug_tax_stamps_not_bi g_ sellers.php

And a page where they show various State drug tax stamps made into T-Shirt designs ( pretty cool)

http://terrefhosting.net/gerry/marijuanastamps/t-shirts.htm
 
2014-04-07 08:12:17 AM

untaken_name: Based on what value? Any percentage of 0 is 0.


You do not need a value. It would be perfectly legal for the state to set a tax of one dollar per pound of dirt, for example, to be paid by having the proper stamps affixed to the dump truck when it was delivered. It would be  stupid  but not illegal.
 
2014-04-07 08:16:36 AM

CheatCommando: untaken_name: Based on what value? Any percentage of 0 is 0.

You do not need a value. It would be perfectly legal for the state to set a tax of one dollar per pound of dirt, for example, to be paid by having the proper stamps affixed to the dump truck when it was delivered. It would be  stupid  but not illegal.


Dirt has a legal value. Why the hell is this so damn hard for people to understand? If it's illegal to deal in, it has no legal value. If you don't think dirt has value, go to your local home improvement store and walk out with some potting soil but don't pay for it. Then tell them that dirt has no legal value. See how far it gets you.
 
2014-04-07 08:23:20 AM

untaken_name: CheatCommando: untaken_name: Based on what value? Any percentage of 0 is 0.

You do not need a value. It would be perfectly legal for the state to set a tax of one dollar per pound of dirt, for example, to be paid by having the proper stamps affixed to the dump truck when it was delivered. It would be  stupid  but not illegal.

Dirt has a legal value. Why the hell is this so damn hard for people to understand? If it's illegal to deal in, it has no legal value. If you don't think dirt has value, go to your local home improvement store and walk out with some potting soil but don't pay for it. Then tell them that dirt has no legal value. See how far it gets you.


Also, the other point people seem to be missing is that since it's not legal to transact drugs for money, legally, there's no transaction to tax. What are you taxing? Possession? That's illegal already and is a criminal charge, not a civil one. Profit off the sale of drugs? There's no legal sale, because selling illegal drugs is illegal. What is the legal basis for the taxation that you people think you see? There's no legal exchange, there's no legal property, what the heck do you think is being taxed?
 
2014-04-07 09:15:46 AM
For those thinking there is no transaction to tax, sorry, I'd suggest not hiring Wesley Snipe's tax advisor.  Income does not have to be from a legal source in order to be taxed.

"Historically criminal prosecution for tax evasion has been used to prosecute criminals who could not be prosecuted otherwise. For example, Al Capone was successfully prosecuted for tax evasion. Additionally, Soviet spy Aldrich Ames, who had earned more than $2 million cash for his espionage, was also charged with tax evasion as none of the Soviet money was reported on his tax returns. Ames attempted to have the tax evasion charge dismissed on the grounds his espionage profits were illegal, but the charges stood.

The United States Supreme Court has ruled that requiring a person to declare income on a federal income tax return does not violate an individual's right to remain silent,although the privilege may apply to allow the person to refrain from revealing the source of the income."


Its perfectly legal if you can but the tax stamps without incriminating yourself, and the purchase record is not forwarded or provided to the police.


So, you make a little money from those wanting to dodge a charge when they inevitably get caught, or wind up with a a very easy charge to stack on when you do catch them, which is a lot harder to shake.

If you are unhappy about it..well, fark you, maybe you shouldn't be a drug dealing scumbag.
 
2014-04-07 09:24:39 AM

Quaker: doglover: Ambivalence: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Did they?  I know they used to have tax stamps for industrial hemp.  It was actually a way to do a "back door ban" on hemp.  Require a tax stamp to grow it and then refuse to issue them to anyone.

Exactly. Unconstitutional.

That's not why those stamp requirements were unconstitutional. It was because in order to get them you had to have the substance in question already in hand, but if you did that then you were in violation of the law.


And most of the laws on the books have been fixed. You can buy the stamps without any drugs in your posession.  you merely are gettign them in advance of reciept.  It isn't illegal to have a drug tax stamp.

However, the stamps often have a limited 'shelf life'.

As an example, here is some info from Kansas and their drug tax stamp program.

"Drug Tax Stamp
The fact that dealing marijuana and controlled substances is illegal does not exempt it from taxation. Therefore drug dealers are required by law to purchase drug tax stamps.

The drug tax is due as soon as the dealer takes possession of the marijuana or controlled substance. Payment of the drug tax will purchase the drug tax stamps. Attach the stamp to the marijuana and/or controlled substance immediately after receiving the substance. The stamps are valid for three months.

Drugs seized without stamps or having expired stamps may result in criminal or civil penalties which may include fines, seizure of property or liens against real estate.

A dealer is not required to give his/her name or address when purchasing stamps and the Department is prohibited from sharing any information relating to the purchase of drug tax stamps with law enforcement or anyone else.

Purchasing drug tax stamps does not make possession of drugs legal.
Links to Drug Tax Stamp Information:

Auctions - The Alcoholic Beverage Control Division has contracted with Purple Wave Auctions in Manhattan, KS to conduct our drug tax auctions. Access the Purple Wave Auction website at www.purplewaveauction.com."

Just for general interest, the KS tax rate.

$3.50/gram if owner possesses 28 grams or more
$.40/g wet plant
$.90/g dry plant

the Kansas drug stamp tax law has already withstood a constitutional challenge of double jeopardy in Kansas v. Gulledge, 257 Kan. 915.
 
2014-04-07 09:29:22 AM

untaken_name: CheatCommando: untaken_name: Based on what value? Any percentage of 0 is 0.

You do not need a value. It would be perfectly legal for the state to set a tax of one dollar per pound of dirt, for example, to be paid by having the proper stamps affixed to the dump truck when it was delivered. It would be  stupid  but not illegal.

Dirt has a legal value. Why the hell is this so damn hard for people to understand? If it's illegal to deal in, it has no legal value. If you don't think dirt has value, go to your local home improvement store and walk out with some potting soil but don't pay for it. Then tell them that dirt has no legal value. See how far it gets you.


Ok, since analogies aren't working, I will try again. Taxes do not have to be based on value. Even a valueless transaction can be taxed at a flat rate per transaction.

You are apparently fixated on taxes being a  percentageof something, which is not required at all.
 
2014-04-07 09:45:31 AM

NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?


Not sure if someone else mentioned it, but you're right.
 
2014-04-07 09:57:16 AM
REG-94-003 DRUG TAX STAMPS
003.01 Drug tax stamps shall be sold at all Department of Revenue offices for face value in denominations authorized by the Tax Commissioner.
003.02 When required; restrictions on use.
003.02A Drug stamps must be affixed to a container holding threshold amounts of marijuana or controlled substances immediately upon possession of the drug(s) in the State of Nebraska or immediately upon the expiration of previously issued stamps.
003.02A(1) Drug stamps may be purchased by a taxpayer in anticipation of the possession of taxable drugs, but the date of expiration for the stamps shall be calculated from the day of purchase, regardless of the day the drug(s) were actually possessed.
003.02B Drug stamps may be purchased by any person of any age and may be purchased for purposes other than for affixing to containers holding taxable drugs.
 
2014-04-07 09:58:11 AM
this is how they get around the law being ruled unconstitutional.

you don't have to possess drugs to buy the stamp.
 
2014-04-07 10:12:53 AM

mypsychoticself: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Not sure if someone else mentioned it, but you're right.


o, hes not. the particualr wording of that 1937 law failed the test.  Drug Tax stamps, as they exist now, written to conform with that and later rulings, are constitutional.
 
2014-04-07 10:16:05 AM
Texas had this a long time ago.  An idiot applied for the stamp, so they arrested him and charged him with possesion of a dealer's quantity of cocain.  I don't know if the law is still on the books or has been challenged.

The goal ultimately an end run around double jeopardy, or to pile on jail time.  If the charges for the drug crime are thrown out by a technicality, or if he is acquitted at trial, they have another shot at him.  It's a tool in plea batgaining, not a way to actually tax drugs.
 
2014-04-07 10:19:28 AM

pkrzycki: this is how they get around the law being ruled unconstitutional.

you don't have to possess drugs to buy the stamp.


Depends.  In a Texas case, the presumption was assumed.  IOW, buying the stamp was prima facie evidence of possession.  I think.
 
2014-04-07 10:22:06 AM
^ Batgaining.  The latest extreme sport.
 
2014-04-07 10:36:42 AM

DORMAMU: As far as drugs go, they are illegal. Therefore their legal value is $0.00. How do you tax something with no legal value?


Short answer: Any way you want to.  I don't know of any rule that states that taxing stuff has to be logical or rational.
 
2014-04-07 12:11:44 PM
www.abebooks.com
 
2014-04-07 02:17:19 PM
I went downtown and picked one up today. The only problem is that I don't have any drugs to affix it to.

spacebison.com
 
2014-04-07 02:46:36 PM

SpaceBison: I went downtown and picked one up today. The only problem is that I don't have any drugs to affix it to.


Darn it, just 10 more and it'd be even more of a hoot!

(Supports legalization of drugs, doesn't even smoke/drink)
 
2014-04-07 08:37:36 PM

Resident Muslim: untaken_name: Resident Muslim: "Tramp Stamp"



Tramp stamp? Sounds like peonage laws. Those are un-Constitutional.

Man, Dumbledore has fallen on hard times.
I thought he died.


/haz a sad for old people unable to help themselves


Maybe it's Gandolf?

/same sad
 
2014-04-07 10:10:34 PM

SomeTexan: ^ Batgaining.  The latest extreme sport.


Nothing wrong with gaining some bats.
 
2014-04-07 10:13:36 PM

SpaceBison: I went downtown and picked one up today. The only problem is that I don't have any drugs to affix it to.


10/04/14?
 
2014-04-08 01:32:00 AM

Abacus9: SpaceBison: I went downtown and picked one up today. The only problem is that I don't have any drugs to affix it to.

10/04/14?


It's good for 6 months


/Had to do a double-take myself
//For a second, I thought we were dealing with ANOTHER damn time-traveler
 
2014-04-08 02:17:16 AM

twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.


Gettong the ATF tax stamp makes the firearm legal.
 
2014-04-08 02:24:02 AM

twat_waffle: DarkVader: twat_waffle: DORMAMU: twat_waffle: NFA: Weren't drug tax stamps ruled unconstitutional?

Leary v. United States. The Marijuana Tax Act was ruled unconstitutional because the act of applying for the stamp would require admitting that you were violating state law, thus infringing on the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. By that logic, these state drug tax stamp laws should be struck down as unconstitutional.

Or I could have read the thread...

I repeat... If you can get the stamp with out breaking the law or as the waffle said without incriminating yourself they coukd do it.

The at has a tax stamp for modified shotguns for instance (short barrels) used mostly for collectors.

The states that have tax stamp laws on the books that have self-incrimination protections. That hasn't stopped them from being ruled unconstitutional (at the state level) in at least two states. If the ATF's sawed-off shotgun tax stamp was ever challenged in court, I would expect it to be struck down as well, with Leary v. United States being cited as precedent.

Not sure how the short barrel shotgun tax stamp is comparable, short barrel shotguns are legal if you've paid the tax.

The poster I was responding to suggested that they were illegal, even if you paid the tax. I don't know a whole lot about firearms and the laws regarding them, as I do not own a firearm and I have no desire to own one. If they are legal (provided you get the ATF stamp), then the analogy is irrelevant, no?


Yes the analogy doesn't work. You have to fill out all the paperwork and get the stamp, then you can modify the shotgun. The shotgun is legal, at least on the federal level. State laws may vary, but I don't believe you can actually finish the paperwork in states where it is illegal.
 
Displayed 108 of 108 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report