hardinparamedic: fnordfocus: Aside from the famous picture of the Fed pointing his gun at Elián Gonzalez, there'sYou mean this picture?Where the gun is held to the side of the person he's facing, the finger isn't on the trigger, and his thumb is on the safety selector?You meant that picture? The one that was infamous for the symbolism of returning a refuge child to a toltarian country, not for "pointing a gun" at Elian?
Gyrfalcon: 1. It happened exactly like the kid said: The cops showed up and ordered a bunch of 11-year olds into a felony-prone position. Then they "walked the kid home," and handed him over to his parents. Cops assume kid is so terrified he won't say anything about their abuse of power.
Plant Rights Activist: nijika: I think we need to hear the Whole Story(tm).But seriously where are they hiring these cops? Where do you find people who are willing to point a killing device at a child?Pretty sure we trained a couple million people to do just that in Iraq and Afghanistan.
i upped my meds-up yours: The most prized recruit any PD can get today is someone ready-trained to think of his buddies first, last and always and to consider anyone who does not wear his uniform as a potentially deadly threat. We positively cannot wait to get these people out into the community with arms, authority, and minimal debriefing. And you're a dirty unpatriotic vet-hating rat if you point out the implications.
studebaker hoch: fredkleinThere's a LOT of "isolated incidents" out there.This is why everyone records cops now.
Gyrfalcon: It's not the likelihood that the cops did it that I question; it's entirely likely that it happened in just that way. It's the reflexive, almost knee-jerk "These guys are the bad guys, so obviously they did exactly what was related in the story" mentality that bothers me, and bothers me a great deal.
fredklein: But people like you would claim that's just another 'anecdote'. Just another 'isolated incident'. I swear, I could find people like you on the beach saying "Look, another isolated grain of sand. And another isolated grain of sand. And another isolated grain of sand...."
fredklein: His punishment? Administrative leave, then right back on the streets.There's a LOT of "isolated incidents" out there. Try looking at https://www.facebook.com/CopBlock , for instance.
MycroftHolmes: fredklein: His punishment? Administrative leave, then right back on the streets.There's a LOT of "isolated incidents" out there. Try looking at https://www.facebook.com/CopBlock , for instance.So, let's do some estimation here. These numbers are not exact, but are probably in the ball park. Let's say that for every 100,000 in population, you have an average of 10 officers on duty. Let's say that they interact with the public in a meaningful manner(including arrests, traffic stops, etc.) 2 times an hour. Given thoiuse two assumptions, you are talking about approximately 1.5 million meaningful interactions between police and the general population a day.Given that social media aggregates national news and allows people to cherry pick the datapoints that support any given argument, does it surprise you that out of a daily sample size in the millions, you can easily pick a few incidents a week that support your belief, and yet they would still be isolated incidents?And I actually think I underestimated both of my assumptions.
fredklein: t works the other way around, too. The reported cases we see are:1)only the most severe. You think a drug dealer would bother reporting a cop 'accidentally' twisting their arm?? No one would care about such a small thing. But it's still assault and illegal.2) only the cases that happen to someone who knows their rights. How many ignorant people let the cops search their car/home illegally because they don't know any better. If they don't know it was illegal, they can't very well report it, can they? And there are plenty of videos out there that show cops lying their asses off, claiming that what they are doing is legal, when it's not.3) cases that happen in front of cameras. Non-police controlled cameras, of course. Oh, and the cops can't steal... Er 'take the camera as evidence', either. Or break it by throwing it on the ground, as in the pic I posted.Now, figure out what tiny percentage of bad cop interactions are severe enough to get reported, happen to someone who knows enough to report it, AND happen in front of a camera. 1 in a 1000? 1 in 10,000?? Then calculate the number that don't.For good measure,Multiply by the number of cops who stand there and let this shiat happen. And multiply again by the police chiefs who outright LIE about what happened (again, like I posted), to cover for their men.Let me know the result.
fredklein: Oh, by the way, there are something like 200 million cars on the road in the USA. Would it be acceptable to you if 200 of them spontaneously burst into flames and exploded each week??? After all, that's just one in a million, like your cop example.I, personally, do not find either case (1/1000000 cars exploding, or 1/1000000 cops abusing) acceptable.
Hawnkee: [galeri.uludagsozluk.com image 500x280]"Getting real sick of your shiat, Tackleberry."
MycroftHolmes: fredklein: Oh, by the way, there are something like 200 million cars on the road in the USA. Would it be acceptable to you if 200 of them spontaneously burst into flames and exploded each week??? After all, that's just one in a million, like your cop example.I, personally, do not find either case (1/1000000 cars exploding, or 1/1000000 cops abusing) acceptable.I am struggling with where to start with how flawed this is. Perhaps we can back off and ask simply why you would equate spontenous vehicle fires as being functionally equivalent to the wide class of police abuses that you want to cite as examples. And why you think that a comparison of calendar week is valid considering that police are pretty much on duty 24x7, but a car is usually in use an average of 2 to 4 hours a day.
MycroftHolmes: You use the number of isolated incidents as evidence that police abuse is widespread. When called out on the fact that the number of incidents is actually very small, you fall back on the 'well, I was also counting the incidents that don't get reported'.
MycroftHolmes: Perhaps we can back off and ask simply why you would equate spontenous vehicle fires as being functionally equivalent to the wide class of police abuses
fredklein: MycroftHolmes: You use the number of isolated incidents as evidence that police abuse is widespread. When called out on the fact that the number of incidents is actually very small, you fall back on the 'well, I was also counting the incidents that don't get reported'.No, I used math and logic to show the number is a LOT higher than your 'one-in-a-million' figure.Also, regarding police that do not report their colleagues,most do it because they know overreacting, biased loudmouths in the public will be crying for their heads for every action that is percieved (often without full context) as being even slightly an overreaction.Then we need MORE transparency- show that missing context!...Unless, of course, there is no "context" that explains away the cops actions.What "context" justifies kicking a prone, spread-eagled man in the head?http://a.gifb.in/052010/1273487123_police-brutality.gifWhat context justifies a police chief LYING?[img.fark.net image 420x280]"However the Assistant Chief Peter Newsham said "There was NO police pulling guns on snowball people.""Why would these cops help witch hunts?Seeking to see people who break the law arrested and charged is, by no stretch of the imagination, a "witch-hunt".The unfortunate side affect to idiots ranting in public forums about police states and armed mobs being better than police is that police tend to take a universal stance of silence.The unfortunate side affect to cops defending each other when they break the law is that people start to talk about 'police states' and start looking for alternatives.Essentially, uninformed, overreacting idiots are more the problem than police.If you really think the public is 'uninformed'... then inform them. Imagine if cops did that, instead of cowering behind their 'blue wall of silence'.MycroftHolmes: Perhaps we can back off and ask simply why you would equate spontenous vehicle fires as being functionally equivalent to the wide class of police abuses ...
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