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(Zero Hedge)   Will the world's greatest economic power please step forward? Not so fast there, Uncle Sam   (zerohedge.com) divider line 41
    More: Sad, Uncle Sam, BBVA, market power  
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5418 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Apr 2014 at 5:12 AM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-04-06 05:32:51 AM
5 votes:
The US is not at the top because of the rising oligarchy.  The more power they have, the weaker we get.
2014-04-06 09:37:02 AM
3 votes:
DRTFA But when looking at any economic data from China I immediately subtract about 50% of the trade numbers from the total.  I'm sorry, but shipping from a manufacturing plant in Shen Zhen to an assembly plant in Hong Kong does not count as an import, an export, or an import/export.  If their trade factors into this assessment at all, take it with a grain of salt.
2014-04-06 07:18:25 AM
3 votes:
In broad strokes, US productivity is maxed out, and our consumer driven economy is faltering on consumers whose earnings are flat or falling, and who can't or won't borrow any further. R&D is stymied by the incredible cost of graduate and PhD level degrees. And trillions in capital is sitting on the sidelines held by a shrinking number of individuals (has gone from the "1%" now to then".5%"). Then Chinese haven't gotten substantially "better" than the US-we're just tuning our own economy and they're passing us on the way down.
2014-04-06 12:05:15 PM
2 votes:

capn' fun: In broad strokes, US productivity is maxed out, and our consumer driven economy is faltering on consumers whose earnings are flat or falling, and who can't or won't borrow any further. R&D is stymied by the incredible cost of graduate and PhD level degrees. And trillions in capital is sitting on the sidelines held by a shrinking number of individuals (has gone from the "1%" now to then".5%"). Then Chinese haven't gotten substantially "better" than the US-we're just tuning our own economy and they're passing us on the way down.


Most PhD programs are free. The bigger issue affecting medical science is the decline in NIH funding. Historically a PhD student would do a postdoctoral fellowship after graduating, and then apply for faculty positions after that. If things didn't work out they could go to the pharmaceutical industry. The incentive to get a PhD was high because there was a payoff at the end regardless of your path.

Now that's not the case. Faculty positions are extremely scarce to the point where only 1 in 6 postdocs will ever get a tenure track position. Furthermore, the pharmaceutical industry has been rapidly shedding R&D jobs. It's not that enough people aren't doing PhDs... it's that there's nowhere to go when they graduate. To make matters worse being an assistant professor is becoming increasingly miserable. The stress is unbelievably high to publish and secure grant funding, so the incentive to be overworked and underpaid for your PhD and postdoc to become an assistant professor is minimal.

The US still has the best scientific infrastructure of any nation, but you can't expect R&D to stay on top by cutting funding and treating scientists like livestock.

/end rant
2014-04-06 10:00:24 AM
2 votes:
China is to world as Texas is to the US. On the surface, it looks pretty great with a fast-growing economy, wealth, and increase in jobs, as well as having a ton of political muscle.

Once you look a little bit closer though, you'll see that there are many many hidden problems that aren't immediately noticed. Sure, the economy is booming, but it's been done at the expense of environmental pollution and safety concerns (lead toys, anyone?). The "wealth" is insanely unequally distributed and there is a humongous rich-poor gap, especially between the urban and rural populations. The "jobs created" are mostly slave-labor wages and don't do anything to increase the standard of living or fix the aforementioned wealth gap. It always amuses me when I hear people talking about how China will soon eclipse us as the world's major superpower and that we are doomed to be their subjects soon. Much like Russia (as has been shown with the Ukraine crisis episode), China is an emperor with no clothes and is still very very far from reaching "first-world country" status anytime soon.

/going back to visit China soon
//not very excited about it
2014-04-06 09:56:44 AM
2 votes:

vygramul: If you add up all the world's import/export numbers, they don't add-up to zero. There's a net positive.

[stickerish.com image 300x300]


/So Earth is exporting to aliens and it's being beautifully hidden by the alien overlords


Really?   I thought it was the opposite and wikipedia say world imports are $18T while exports are $17.8T.  Reason?  Imports are taxed and therefore carefully measured, exports, not so much.
2014-04-06 09:45:24 AM
2 votes:
Our unending race to the bottom will not return us to dominance.
2014-04-06 09:27:06 AM
2 votes:
Without china, we get our cheap shiat from somewhere else. Without the US, china is in economic ruin.

Plus, whose side has the US Navy? I'll go with that side.
2014-04-06 08:13:14 AM
2 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Yeah, I think any ranking of economic power that places Russia ahead of the US can be very, very safely disregarded as the fever-dreams of a drug addict trying to cold-turkey Heroin.

To have any greater disconnect from reality you'd have to literally have a clinical diagnosis of schizophrenia going on.


What was your first clue? Mine was "ZeroHedge"
2014-04-06 08:03:35 AM
2 votes:

vygramul: They sound concerned.


Right wingers gotta stop stroking it to Putin's general tyranny etc. sand finding pathetically flimsy things to complement him on. This is super creepy given how many of them spank it to Rambo and Red Dawn.
/damn you Fark, how did it I almost get duped into reading much of zerohedge's partisan asshattery?
2014-04-06 06:56:14 AM
2 votes:

rev. dave: The US is not at the top because of the rising oligarchy.  The more power they have, the weaker we get.


bingo
those oligarchs are sending our money over there to build things to sell to us.
2014-04-06 06:35:37 AM
2 votes:

b2theory: Great list. Some how the worlds largest economy, second largest manufactuer, with the most R&D spending, largest equities market, largest consumer market..... is number two.


consider what happened to spain long ago
(they too found it cheaper to buy elsewhere - or in other words too much of the wrong kind of sucess can be ruinous)
2014-04-06 12:15:59 AM
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: We could beat them if we weren't such pussies.

[cdn.theatlanticcities.com image 850x564]

C'mon, slap a handkerchief over your face and get back to work!

Is that a photo or a render?  Some of the textures look a bit off, but if it's a photo, that huge building with what appear to be a ton of satellite dishes on the lower segment is very cool looking.  What is it?


China Central Television building, apparently.
2014-04-06 12:02:10 AM
2 votes:
We could beat them if we weren't such pussies.

cdn.theatlanticcities.com

C'mon, slap a handkerchief over your face and get back to work!
2014-04-05 11:51:00 PM
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: So what exactly is that graph measuring?  If you look at GDP or GNP the US is two to three times as large as China.  Plus, China's economy is almost entirely dependent on the US and other wealthy nations buying Chinese produced goods.  If the US were to be suddenly wiped off the map it would be much worse for China than if the reverse were to happen for the US.


It's also hugely dependent on a massive credit scheme (bubble) that's not long for this world.
2014-04-05 11:46:47 PM
2 votes:
So what exactly is that graph measuring?  If you look at GDP or GNP the US is two to three times as large as China.  Plus, China's economy is almost entirely dependent on the US and other wealthy nations buying Chinese produced goods.  If the US were to be suddenly wiped off the map it would be much worse for China than if the reverse were to happen for the US.
2014-04-05 10:42:57 PM
2 votes:
This blog has never actually been to that bubble that is china. Here is what china is like:

1.bp.blogspot.com

/Homer is Xi Xinping
//The dogs are the chinese (and dinner)
///He slope is the resistance that the whip overcomes...until the dogs eat you!
2014-04-06 02:51:58 PM
1 votes:

JerkyMeat: Capitalism and capitalists in particular have no allegence to country. Their one and only allegence is to money and profit.



BINGO!   you won.    and if this Nation ever really craps out, those same crony Capitalist pigs will fly in their private jets to their European, etc, homes.

they don't owe this Nation a damn thing. that is why they whine about their taxes so much.
2014-04-06 02:50:05 PM
1 votes:

fusillade762: We could beat them if we weren't such pussies.

[cdn.theatlanticcities.com image 850x564]

C'mon, slap a handkerchief over your face and get back to work!



if the GOP had their way, our air would be the same.
2014-04-06 12:27:20 PM
1 votes:

capn' fun: In broad strokes, US productivity is maxed out, and our consumer driven economy is faltering on consumers whose earnings are flat or falling, and who can't or won't borrow any further. R&D is stymied by the incredible cost of graduate and PhD level degrees. And trillions in capital is sitting on the sidelines held by a shrinking number of individuals (has gone from the "1%" now to then".5%"). Then Chinese haven't gotten substantially "better" than the US-we're just tuning our own economy and they're passing us on the way down.


Productivity isn't maxxed out... motivation is maxxed out. For the last few decades, US workers became increasingly more productive only to see real wages fall. They don't believe there's a connection between personal productivity and personal gains (there isn't)...so at a societal level, they just don't give a crap about productivity any more. There is no more American Dream, they're not reaching for anything any more... they're just trying to get by.
2014-04-06 12:21:57 PM
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: rev. dave: The US is not at the top because of the rising oligarchy.  The more power they have, the weaker we get.

bingo
those oligarchs are sending our money over there to build things to sell to us.


This. And stores like Walmart have the audacity to market themselves as American. People in the Midwest are proud to go Walmart, like it's all apple pies and trucks and American flags. They don't seem to realize that they're taking money out of their pocket and shipping it directly to China. You know, that country that violates human rights and practices Communism. Real freakin' American to support that.
2014-04-06 12:01:19 PM
1 votes:

rubi_con_man: Here's a good question :

Take this "power index"

multiply it by the GDP

Then divide it by the Population ...

I wonder how that chart would look...

Now for each nation, take that value, and locate it on its own prosperity curve ... Let's look at figures above and below that on the same chart for each nation ...

hm... I wonder what that would look like


fc01.deviantart.net
2014-04-06 11:44:04 AM
1 votes:
Looks like some article's author is really really hoping to see America stumble and fall.
2014-04-06 11:23:01 AM
1 votes:

theknuckler_33: ZeroHedge.

LULZ!


How long have they had their own tag? This bodes ill, methinks.
2014-04-06 11:18:56 AM
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: the_vegetarian_cannibal: The "wealth" is insanely unequally distributed and there is a humongous rich-poor gap, especially between the urban and rural populations.

You know what states have the most inequality of wealth? Hint: not Texas. They're third. New York and Connecticut are 1-2 and they have the same issue - on paper, they should be the anti-Texas and a progressives' paradise. Immense social programs, (in NY) by far the nation's largest Medicaid budget, massive spending on education, high taxes on the rich, high taxes on fossil fuels, (hell, high taxes on everybody and everything), a well-compensated public sector with strong public-sector unions, tough gun laws, the few remaining conservatives relegated to the role of court jester (mainly because the William F. Buckley brand of conservative bailed for Florida decades ago), loads of mass transit, and it's even a place where Kennedys are still taken seriously even when they're spouting anti-vaxxer loonage.

So how come it ain't Camelot for all they spend?


Don't worry, some day you will understand how cities work.

Any state with a city like New York is going to attract enough of the 1% to have a big wealth inequality. Take a look at the median income to find out how the plebs are doing, then think about why the wealthiest are in a location. Those are the important factors.

But good work blaming mass transit and welfare I guess.
2014-04-06 10:39:52 AM
1 votes:
Forgetting the accuracy of the ranking for the moment:

There is no shame in China overtaking the U.S. anyways. It has over three times our population ffs. You literally have to be wishing poverty on the Chinese to demand they be held back and remain below us in economic terms.
2014-04-06 09:39:56 AM
1 votes:

Animatronik: rev. dave: The US is not at the top because of the rising oligarchy.  The more power they have, the weaker we get.

Do you have any understanding of the gap between rich and poor in China? Do you have any understanding of China at all?


Yes. It's a place where everybody drives a Buick and shiats in the street.
2014-04-06 09:37:25 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: rev. dave: The US is not at the top because of the rising oligarchy.  The more power they have, the weaker we get.

Yeah - China doesn't have an oligarchy. *eyeroll*

Or is American Exceptionalism to mean that our oligarchs are more corrupting than their oligarchs?


our oligarchs are different that the Chinese ones. ours exploit cheap Chinese labor. theirs exploit our low earning consumers.
2014-04-06 08:35:20 AM
1 votes:

wrs1864: The actual BBVA report is all about exports.   Funny how that was barely mentioned in the linked article


On that front things are about to look extra lolzy for Russia. Germany etc. already is cooking up contingency plans to wean off Russian oil and that's about all they export. Who wants to buy Russian manufactured goods even when they aren't invading their neighbors?
2014-04-06 08:00:49 AM
1 votes:
We've outsourced the American Dream to China and they are cashing in. I don't know how many of you have been to Asia but visiting the region opened my eyes a bit. I thought I knew what mass production/mass consumption was......I was wrong. That being said, I also now know that humans produce a ton of shiate.
2014-04-06 07:45:35 AM
1 votes:

BigBurrito: Is that a photo or a render?  Some of the textures look a bit off, but if it's a photo, that huge building with what appear to be a ton of satellite dishes on the lower segment is very cool looking.  What is it?

CCTV offices. Architect Rem Koolhaas (OMA), who also did the Seattle Public Library, and many other intersting buildings.


One of the current starchitects. (not my word)


Portmanteau should require a licensing process.
2014-04-06 06:56:54 AM
1 votes:

ColonelCathcart: This blog has never actually been to that bubble that is china. Here is what china is like:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 300x402]

/Homer is Xi Xinping
//The dogs are the chinese (and dinner)
///He slope is the resistance that the whip overcomes...until the dogs eat you!


SO much this. The chinese are experiencing the benefits of their own baby boom. Chinese boomers are "working age," and much like when we boomed here in America, that means a colossal, mobile workforce. In a decade China will be where we (US) are now: drowning in old boomers. When the massive generation shifts into retirement (read: dead weight), they'll cool down like US in the 90's-00's.

It's kind of like a snake eating a turtle; sure, he can stuff it in his mouth, and it feels good in his belly, but when it comes time to pass that farker, oh lordy...
2014-04-06 06:56:53 AM
1 votes:

Mugato: I thought everyone knew this. Go somewhere other than a gun store and try to find something not made in China. I mean you can do it but it'll take a few tries.


It'll take a few tries if you're a moran who thinks that the definition of "manufacturing" is "making shiat to fill the shelves at Walmart," anyway.
2014-04-06 05:42:18 AM
1 votes:

cman: log_jammin: when I was a kid I would always hear "no wonder it broke. It says "made in japan! junk!"

when I was older I would hear "no wonder it broke. It says "made in Taiwan! junk!"

now "no wonder it broke. It says "made in China! junk!"

so what will be the next the next Asian country to make my cheap walmart junk? India?

Laos


Everything they make is Laosy.
2014-04-06 05:30:57 AM
1 votes:
when I was a kid I would always hear "no wonder it broke. It says "made in japan! junk!"

when I was older I would hear "no wonder it broke. It says "made in Taiwan! junk!"

now "no wonder it broke. It says "made in China! junk!"

so what will be the next the next Asian country to make my cheap walmart junk? India?
2014-04-06 05:29:30 AM
1 votes:
Capitalism and capitalists in particular have no allegence to country. Their one and only allegence is to money and profit.
2014-04-06 04:43:45 AM
1 votes:
"Marty, no wonder this circuit failed; it says 'Made in China'!"

"Whaddya mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in China!"
2014-04-06 04:22:23 AM
1 votes:

itcamefromschenectady: themindiswatching: Mugato: I thought everyone knew this. Go somewhere other than a gun store and try to find something not made in China. I mean you can do it but it'll take a few tries.

My employer's products for the US market assembled in the US, at least.

/medical devices

My car was made in Canada.


Oh! I know the one. It was made by Sue's cousin Gordon.
2014-04-06 02:29:02 AM
1 votes:

themindiswatching: Mugato: I thought everyone knew this. Go somewhere other than a gun store and try to find something not made in China. I mean you can do it but it'll take a few tries.

My employer's products for the US market assembled in the US, at least.

/medical devices


My car was made in Canada. My first motorcycle was made in Thailand. The previous car I owned was made in South Africa.
2014-04-06 12:13:21 AM
1 votes:
I thought everyone knew this. Go somewhere other than a gun store and try to find something not made in China. I mean you can do it but it'll take a few tries.
2014-04-05 10:07:19 PM
1 votes:
Russia is diversified? They're no different than Saudi Arabia, other than they have hotter women and it's colder. BBVA must be based in Colorado or Washington.
 
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