Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Townhall)   Pope Francis: "No, I am not a Communist. I believe that the poor are the center of the Gospel of Jesus." Of course, that's just what a dirty, sneaky, hippie Commie mole would say   (townhall.com) divider line 138
    More: Scary, Gospel of Jesus, pope, gospels, communists, social exclusion, apostolic exhortation  
•       •       •

5097 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Apr 2014 at 5:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



138 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-05 04:00:02 PM  
I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.
 
2014-04-05 04:19:26 PM  
It's ridiculous that anyone that comes out to say that "Hey, umm maybe there are a bunch of flaws in capitalism that we need to shore up so it works better" that the instantaneous response is to call them a commie socialist totalitarian.

The Pope's continued message should be, capitalism is a tool to use in the economy to increase the quality of life for all, however by itself it's not a perfect system. We can do better.
 
2014-04-05 04:57:02 PM  

jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.




Not at all. Today's republicans are fascist. Today's democrats are conservatives. There are no liberals.
 
2014-04-05 04:57:20 PM  

MayoSlather: The Pope's continued message should be, capitalism is a tool to use in the economy to increase the quality of life for all, however by itself it's not a perfect system. We can do better.


"Does not compute. Capitalism is a tool to control the proletariat while the rich get richer."
-- GOP
 
2014-04-05 04:59:43 PM  
I love the Pope.
 
2014-04-05 05:04:55 PM  
Communism consists way more than just a focus on the poor

The pope is no Communist. If he were he would be calling struggle against capitalists.
 
2014-04-05 05:09:14 PM  
Sad that he actually has to say that. That people's hearts are so hardened to the actual words of the Bible is dissappointing to see.
 
2014-04-05 05:19:04 PM  
Sounds like something a long-haired Middle Easterner who's gives away free healthcare would say
 
2014-04-05 05:22:48 PM  
FTFA: One need not be a communist to care passionately for the poor. In the same way that one need not be a communist to criticize certain elements of an economic system that can at times lead to inequities and social exclusion.

While certainly Pope Francis has been the target of reactionary economic criticism, the actual linked article is hardly critical of him. In fact, this is probably by far the most nuanced article I've seen on Townhall since...well forever. The author certainly accepts the role of the Gospel in uplifting the poor. You know, that whole 'Sermon On The Mount/Gospel of Matthew' thing.
 
2014-04-05 05:24:42 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Sounds like something a long-haired Middle Easterner who's gives away free healthcare would say


4.bp.blogspot.com

/oblig
 
2014-04-05 05:34:36 PM  

Somacandra: FTFA: One need not be a communist to care passionately for the poor. In the same way that one need not be a communist to criticize certain elements of an economic system that can at times lead to inequities and social exclusion.

While certainly Pope Francis has been the target of reactionary economic criticism, the actual linked article is hardly critical of him. In fact, this is probably by far the most nuanced article I've seen on Townhall since...well forever. The author certainly accepts the role of the Gospel in uplifting the poor. You know, that whole 'Sermon On The Mount/Gospel of Matthew' thing.


Dammit. I'm going to have to give TownHall a click now. *sigh*
 
2014-04-05 05:39:13 PM  
critics of his pontificate have seized upon remarks he made regarding trickledown economics. In his view, he wrote, the successful implementation of such theories "have never been confirmed by the facts." Of course, many conservatives scoffed at this assertion, some of whom accused him outright of being a socialist or a communist

Pointing out that supply-side economics doesn't work (well, except for the already-rich that it was designed to make richer) makes you a communist? Please point to the people who claimed this so that I might punch them in the nuts.
 
2014-04-05 05:41:19 PM  
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara
 
2014-04-05 05:43:37 PM  
It's the meek who are the problem!
 
2014-04-05 05:46:17 PM  
Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
agentpothead.com
 
2014-04-05 05:46:29 PM  

jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.


Any tyrant will serve as an excuse.
 
2014-04-05 05:50:14 PM  

MayoSlather: .....capitalism is a tool to use in the economy to increase the quality of life for all, however by itself it's not a perfect system. We can do better.


This, also corportations are a tool and not a person.
 
2014-04-05 05:50:17 PM  
"One need not be a communist to care passionately for the poor. In the same way that one need not be a communist to criticize certain elements of an economic system that can at times lead to inequities and social exclusion."

Daniel Doherty is was Townhall's Deputy News Editor.
 
2014-04-05 05:51:04 PM  
How long will the writer have their job, I wonder.
 
2014-04-05 05:53:30 PM  
"I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people."

Can you send your newsletter to the Ukraine? Or has the LSD kicked in?


/bluebell doesn't taste like home made....
 
2014-04-05 05:53:39 PM  

jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.


Because "conservatives" are "oligarch-supporting fascists", not "patriots", "Christians", "the moral majority", or any other self-applied tag they choose. Most of them follow God because they believe that everyone who doesn't think like they do will be smited by the Almighty Ruler - and, of course, that's why they support anyone willing to demonstrate similar behavior here on Earth, too.

The poor? The poor clearly don't think like they do - otherwise, God would've rewarded them for their righteousness. The rich are, clearly, God's anointed, and so should be emulated, no matter how selfish, banal, or just plain evil their actions.
 
2014-04-05 05:53:54 PM  
Communism is forced by the boot of the government. If a person decides to give to charity, volunteer at a soup kitchen or help the poor on their own accord. That is not communism, that is just being a good charitable being. Pope Francis seems to promote helping the poor any way his church can and he preaches this, that is not communism, that is just being a good Pope.

That is the way I see it.
 
2014-04-05 05:53:55 PM  

AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]


Don't worry. The Southern Strategy Never happened in the minds of modern conservatives.
 
2014-04-05 05:54:41 PM  

Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara


Except that today if you give food to the poor they call you a Communist. If you starve the poor they call you a hero.
 
2014-04-05 05:55:44 PM  
Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-05 05:56:02 PM  
Free Joel Osteen!
 
2014-04-05 05:58:07 PM  
Warning: Reading the townhall comment will make you loose at least 10 iq points. Those is some serious teabagging delusions.
 
2014-04-05 05:59:13 PM  

jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-


That assumes you believe giving tax dollars to the government is the best way to help the poor.
 
2014-04-05 06:01:47 PM  
Yeah but hurr durr I give to charity. Lots of durr rich people do. Hurr durr socializms durr.
 
2014-04-05 06:02:19 PM  

MayoSlather: It's ridiculous that anyone that comes out to say that "Hey, umm maybe there are a bunch of flaws in capitalism that we need to shore up so it works better" that the instantaneous response is to call them a commie socialist totalitarian.

The Pope's continued message should be, capitalism is a tool to use in the economy to increase the quality of life for all, however by itself it's not a perfect system. We can do better.


The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

The instant "commie!!!!" response comes from the cold war, when people were brainwashed into hating and fearing communism and communists (and anything even remotely socialist, for that matter).  Most of the knee-jerk reactionists were either brought up then, or taught to believe the same things as their parents.
 
2014-04-05 06:02:30 PM  
Are there any Marxists of fark? If so could you answer this question: being dialectical-materialist based theory, what materal basis do Marxist have in believing that's there's a "class conscious" that will spur a worker's revolution?
 
2014-04-05 06:02:59 PM  
My grandmother was very, very Catholic. She remembered when being Catholic was juuust a step above being from another race in her home town. She was devout, going to mass as often as possible (sometimes twice in a day). Yet, she was never as big a fan of some of the evils taking place in the church, nor the grandiose expenditures.

It's too bad she died a few years ago, because this likely would have been her favorite Pope.
 
2014-04-05 06:03:35 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-

That assumes you believe giving tax dollars to the government is the best way to help the poor.


Well insisting that they should be "bootstrappy" sure as hell isn't working.
 
2014-04-05 06:04:53 PM  

Pattuq: The only way  Capitalism Communism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.


Even more true and practiced a lot more frequently..
 
2014-04-05 06:04:55 PM  

Pattuq: The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.


Both capitalism and communism are unsustainable in a modern information age, where the majority of the population can be easily educated to the abuses and fallacies of both pure systems.

The real solution lies in the middle, namely with regulated freedom of business, and social democratic policies which provide support structures for the poor, needy, and ill to prevent from creating a continual lower poverty-ridden class.
 
2014-04-05 06:07:29 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-

That assumes you believe giving tax dollars to the government is the best way to help the poor.


Got any better ideas?
 
2014-04-05 06:09:35 PM  

Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara


Without poor people around, how will we get that warm fuzzy feeling in our heart about doing the right thing as we toss that dented outdated generic can of cream of lima bean soup into the food bank donation bin?
 
2014-04-05 06:10:34 PM  

hardinparamedic: Pattuq: The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

Both capitalism and communism are unsustainable in a modern information age, where the majority of the population can be easily educated to the abuses and fallacies of both pure systems.

The real solution lies in the middle, namely with regulated freedom of business, and social democratic policies which provide support structures for the poor, needy, and ill to prevent from creating a continual lower poverty-ridden class.


Thanks to the internet many many many people have woken up that fact - we are getting screwed - and what's worse, on purpose. "The Man" is currently working very hard to make sure nothing changes or at least gets worse before it gets better, and boy is it working in the US.
 
2014-04-05 06:10:59 PM  

jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.


No. These republicans have always been in favor of oppressing human rights and tormenting the poor. It's that sadism & cowardice that's buried deep into their very DNA that makes them republicans.

Just watch what happens if Putin ever does something nice for poor people. The rightards will turn on him in a nanosecond.
 
2014-04-05 06:11:14 PM  

SilentStrider: Sad that he actually has to say that. That people's hearts are so hardened to the actual words of the Bible is dissappointing to see.


I doubt if many Christians have actually read the Bible, and of those that have few of them have tried to actually think about the contents.  Most Christians are so because their parents and communities said "you are a Christian," and they replied "ok!"  Their belief comes from years of older, wiser-seeming people telling them that this thing must be.  The only information they receive about the Bible and God is tenth-generation hand-me-down knowledge from their parents and sermons from a minister (if they even go to church at all).  The sermons have no context for them because they are unfamiliar with the source material.  The end result is people who claim they are Christian, believe strongly they are better than those who don't say the same, but have no idea what a Christian actually is.

Anyone who breaks the commandments and commits sins but insists they are still a Christian has no idea what they're talking about.  The religion doesn't work that way - you can't selectively follow the parts that sound nice.  It's all or nothing.
 
2014-04-05 06:11:53 PM  

FunkOut: Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara

Without poor people around, how will we get that warm fuzzy feeling in our heart about doing the right thing as we toss that dented outdated generic can of cream of lima bean soup into the food bank donation bin?


Yeah fark charity, right?
 
2014-04-05 06:14:54 PM  

TV's Vinnie: jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.

No. These republicans have always been in favor of oppressing human rights and tormenting the poor. It's that sadism & cowardice that's buried deep into their very DNA that makes them republicans.

Just watch what happens if Putin ever does something nice for poor people. The rightards will turn on him in a nanosecond.


I remember back in the 80s how Thatcher and Reagan thought those sick farks down in Argentina and Chile were just A-Okay for fighting communism by jailing, torturing, and murdering all those people suspected of being communists.
 
2014-04-05 06:15:07 PM  

Pattuq: SilentStrider: Sad that he actually has to say that. That people's hearts are so hardened to the actual words of the Bible is dissappointing to see.

I doubt if many Christians have actually read the Bible, and of those that have few of them have tried to actually think about the contents.  Most Christians are so because their parents and communities said "you are a Christian," and they replied "ok!"  Their belief comes from years of older, wiser-seeming people telling them that this thing must be.  The only information they receive about the Bible and God is tenth-generation hand-me-down knowledge from their parents and sermons from a minister (if they even go to church at all).  The sermons have no context for them because they are unfamiliar with the source material.  The end result is people who claim they are Christian, believe strongly they are better than those who don't say the same, but have no idea what a Christian actually is.

Anyone who breaks the commandments and commits sins but insists they are still a Christian has no idea what they're talking about.  The religion doesn't work that way - you can't selectively follow the parts that sound nice.  It's all or nothing.


St Augustine thinks you're full of shiat
 
2014-04-05 06:15:22 PM  

SilentStrider: Sad that he actually has to say that. That people's hearts are so hardened to the actual words of the Bible is dissappointing to see.


The average rightard has serious doubts about scriptures that speak about things like caring for those in poverty, or that the rich man has as much chance in getting into Heaven as a camel does getting through the eye of a needle. That's why they're just chucking King James out and starting work on their own Bible, which will have none of that kindness or compassion crap that rightards hate so much.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible

"And the Lord Thy GAWD sayeth, "Torment thine poor with great glee, for they are not of my Kingdom. To give them kindness is to invoke my wrath!" -- Limbaugh 3:16

www.spoonyexperiment.com
 
2014-04-05 06:15:28 PM  

jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-
[img.fark.net image 526x526]


Not Carter. Someone named John Fugelsang, apparently.
 
2014-04-05 06:15:40 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-

That assumes you believe giving tax dollars to the government is the best way to help the poor.


Well it doesn't really qualify the notion with a better/best concept, but government tax dollars are a fine way to do it (food stamps, public schools, medi-care. section 8, etc, etc.), no? In my mind that's a prefered use of tax dollars over mega-wars and corporate subsidies. It also assumes that one pays taxes.

 I live in a crappy neighborhood in Jersey City/NYC. I have direct access to quite a few poor folk. I give a buck or two here and there to those who ask- but I'm not thinking that it's an alternative to gov't funded programs. Why not both?
 
2014-04-05 06:16:23 PM  
Communism and capitalism are divided on the issue of ownership of property: essentially, capitalism goes with sole ownership that can only be transferred by consent, and communism goes with whoever is  using the property in a productive capacity sharing equal partial ownership.

Taking care of the poor is not an issue of property ownership, there are communist nations that haven't really given a flying fark about the poor (notably China) and capitalist countries that invest quite heavily into social safety nets (the UK and the US, despite the protests of right-wingers).   Most modern nations of both types of economy invest pretty heavily into poverty assistance, either because a large healthy pool of workers is vital or from genuine philosophical conviction (or some mix of the two).

Hell, outright dictatorships where neither kind of economy apply, like the demesne of the Sauds, invest pretty heavily in the old bread 'n circuses too.
 
2014-04-05 06:16:27 PM  
Jesus is a communist. We read karl marx in catholic high school.
 
2014-04-05 06:16:36 PM  

Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara

Without poor people around, how will we get that warm fuzzy feeling in our heart about doing the right thing as we toss that dented outdated generic can of cream of lima bean soup into the food bank donation bin?

Yeah fark charity, right?


The point, she is flying over your head like an albatross.
 
2014-04-05 06:18:18 PM  

MayoSlather: It's ridiculous that anyone that comes out to say that "Hey, umm maybe there are a bunch of flaws in capitalism that we need to shore up so it works better" that the instantaneous response is to call them a commie socialist totalitarian.

The Pope's continued message should be, capitalism is a tool to use in the economy to increase the quality of life for all, however by itself it's not a perfect system. We can do better.


And the rich right don't want true capitalism. They want state to fund the risk while they reap the rewards.
 
2014-04-05 06:18:58 PM  
My grandparents are uber-catholic, and very conservative, and they love this pope.
 
2014-04-05 06:20:09 PM  
good thing we arent a christian nation any longer... no more bills
 
2014-04-05 06:21:07 PM  

FunkOut: Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara

Without poor people around, how will we get that warm fuzzy feeling in our heart about doing the right thing as we toss that dented outdated generic can of cream of lima bean soup into the food bank donation bin?

Yeah fark charity, right?

The point, she is flying over your head like an albatross.


No I totally get it. According to this thread, the Right systematically ignores the plight of the poor. And according to you, they also enjoy donating food to the poor. Air tight logic

/also, the albatross is suppose to hang around the neck. Get your literary devices right.
 
2014-04-05 06:23:17 PM  

fusillade762: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-
[img.fark.net image 526x526]

Not Carter. Someone named John Fugelsang, apparently.


Good to know. I had never heard the quote until this morning. I didn't realize it was a 'thing'. I wonder how Carter came to get credit for it? It's funny because when I first read it I was thinking that it sounded a little uppity for Carter. I was hoping he was getting a little bit more surly in his old age. Guess not...


Musings aside- the sentiment remains.
 
2014-04-05 06:25:20 PM  
I very much hope this Pope prepares his own tea.
 
2014-04-05 06:26:28 PM  

FLMountainMan: Pattuq: The only way  Capitalism Communism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

Even more true and practiced a lot more frequently..


Unchecked capitalism has done just as much damage to the world, if not more, than Communism.
 
2014-04-05 06:26:35 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-

That assumes you believe giving tax dollars to the government is the best way to help the poor.


Giving it to the Church doesn't work. Almost all the churches are in debt or losing money.
Giving it to private charities helps a tiny bit. But it's a drop in the bucket compared to need.
The Free Market wants people on the ragged edge of starvation because that keeps costs low and means more money can get transferred to corporate pockets.
No matter how much the gibbertarians and teabagging koch-whores and bootstrappy Real Merkins screech about it government is the only solution here.
 
2014-04-05 06:27:45 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-

That assumes you believe giving tax dollars to the government is the best way to help the poor.


Find the data that shows any private endeavor in the US is better than the government at it.  We'll wait.
 
2014-04-05 06:33:19 PM  

hardinparamedic: Pattuq: The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

Both capitalism and communism are unsustainable in a modern information age, where the majority of the population can be easily educated to the abuses and fallacies of both pure systems.

The real solution lies in the middle, namely with regulated freedom of business, and social democratic policies which provide support structures for the poor, needy, and ill to prevent from creating a continual lower poverty-ridden class.


Nice fantasy. In today's world democracy itself has become a dirty word. Organized Labor has been destroyed and is fast on its way to becoming illegal. Dissent is treated as terrorism. We have a degree of wealth and income inequality higher than the Gilded Age. A majority on the edge of starvation and happy to get anything is the new norm, and a huge, efficient propaganda machine ensures it will remain that way. The global race to the bottom is enforced through "Free Trade" pacts which make legal remedies quite literally illegal and impossible.

The "Loony Left" of today is the moderate Republican of thirty years ago. Nixon is a hippy-dippy Radical Socialist by today's standards. Eisenhower would be a Commie. And Joseph McCarthy would be the "New Center".

So good luck with any of it in our lifetime.
 
2014-04-05 06:33:31 PM  

Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara

Without poor people around, how will we get that warm fuzzy feeling in our heart about doing the right thing as we toss that dented outdated generic can of cream of lima bean soup into the food bank donation bin?

Yeah fark charity, right?

The point, she is flying over your head like an albatross.

No I totally get it. According to this thread, the Right systematically ignores the plight of the poor. And according to you, they also enjoy donating food to the poor. Air tight logic

/also, the albatross is suppose to hang around the neck. Get your literary devices right.


You're making assumptions, chucklebuns. I'm saying a number of Christians who like the idea of being nice to the poor and throwing them a few charity bones hate the idea of doing anything that actually helps the poor not be poor...because they think there always should be poor people in society because "that's just how things are". They also tend to think people are poor because they did something to deserve to be poor or that they're just poor because God isn't blessing them.

There's also New Agers who think bad things happen to people because people just aren't vibrating at the right frequency or they're attracting bad things with negative thoughts and not being happy enough for the Universe to bless them. They also like to get the warm fuzzies for their self esteem by giving charity and then floating in their cloud of good karma.

But I wasn't going with the literary device of Samuel Taylor Coleridge, opium dreamer poet extraordinaire. I was going with a bird that flies really really high for a long long time.
 
2014-04-05 06:33:32 PM  

jonnya: fusillade762: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-
[img.fark.net image 526x526]

Not Carter. Someone named John Fugelsang, apparently.

Good to know. I had never heard the quote until this morning. I didn't realize it was a 'thing'. I wonder how Carter came to get credit for it? It's funny because when I first read it I was thinking that it sounded a little uppity for Carter. I was hoping he was getting a little bit more surly in his old age. Guess not...

Musings aside- the sentiment remains.


I thought it sounded a bit like this:

tjdraper.com
 
2014-04-05 06:34:34 PM  
Jesus would have definitely been against universal health care.
fark the sick.
 
2014-04-05 06:35:15 PM  

Frank N Stein: Pattuq: SilentStrider: Sad that he actually has to say that. That people's hearts are so hardened to the actual words of the Bible is dissappointing to see.

I doubt if many Christians have actually read the Bible, and of those that have few of them have tried to actually think about the contents.  Most Christians are so because their parents and communities said "you are a Christian," and they replied "ok!"  Their belief comes from years of older, wiser-seeming people telling them that this thing must be.  The only information they receive about the Bible and God is tenth-generation hand-me-down knowledge from their parents and sermons from a minister (if they even go to church at all).  The sermons have no context for them because they are unfamiliar with the source material.  The end result is people who claim they are Christian, believe strongly they are better than those who don't say the same, but have no idea what a Christian actually is.

Anyone who breaks the commandments and commits sins but insists they are still a Christian has no idea what they're talking about.  The religion doesn't work that way - you can't selectively follow the parts that sound nice.  It's all or nothing.

St Augustine thinks you're full of shiat


My Dad became "Born Again" when I was about 10, my brother was 4. We were thrust into a whole new belief system and church out of nowhere. My brother went with it and became a fine upstanding evangelical christian, I on the other hand, cannot stand organized religion and have panic attacks when I have to be in a church.
 
2014-04-05 06:35:57 PM  
I think the biggest problem with capitalism is that its only focus is on getting more money in less time. It disregards any sense of moderation or greater good, as these are the antithesis of capitalism.

A couple of examples:

1. Looking at the oil sands in northern Alberta, one could make an argument to slow down production to damage the environment less. However the laws of capitalism are all about getting ahead and maximizing profits. Therefore no such option is considered.

2. In Toronto we are in the midst of a condo boom. We are seeing buildings built all over the place in record time. However besides the fact that there are concerns that the current infrastructure cannot handle the influx of people and density, the only thing keeping their prices high is market speculation. Most people who live in these condos rent, and will likely move to a house in a new subdivision when they are ready to settle down. Sure we could be building modest medium sized urban dwellings, places where community can foster and people can be happy to call their home, but not as much money in that! Have to build an 80 story tower in place of these theaters and restaurants.
 
2014-04-05 06:36:31 PM  

anuran: DrewCurtisJr: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-

That assumes you believe giving tax dollars to the government is the best way to help the poor.

Giving it to the Church doesn't work. Almost all the churches are in debt or losing money.
Giving it to private charities helps a tiny bit. But it's a drop in the bucket compared to need.
The Free Market wants people on the ragged edge of starvation because that keeps costs low and means more money can get transferred to corporate pockets.
No matter how much the gibbertarians and teabagging koch-whores and bootstrappy Real Merkins screech about it government is the only solution here.


And, as a bonus, it means the workers can't quit if they're mistreated, unless they want to risk starvation. Which is why the fascists want to dismantle the social safety nets, to increase that risk and make workers even MORE afraid to leave.

A hungry, desperate, uneducated populace is the GOFP's dream. They want nothing less than to turn America into China or India, for the Glory of the Almighty Job Creators.
 
2014-04-05 06:36:33 PM  

GDubDub: I very much hope this Pope prepares his own tea.


Actually, he did while he was Archbishop. And he doesn't live in the Papal Palace. He's in a simple apartment in a guest building in Vatican City.
 
2014-04-05 06:38:03 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-05 06:38:35 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.

Not at all. Today's republicans are fascist. Today's democrats are conservatives. There are no liberals.


Eh, I'd say both are authoritarian.  One wants to tell you who you can fark, one wants to tell you what you should buy and eat.  Both want to control parts of your life.
 
2014-04-05 06:40:38 PM  
anuran:  Eisenhower would be a Commie. And Joseph McCarthy would be the "New Center".

So good luck with any of it in our lifetime.


I like Ike
 
2014-04-05 06:41:25 PM  

AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]


Hell, their heads would explode if they actually had a clue what communism and socialism actually meant.

But that would take education and education is taboo unless it's Jesus approved.
 
2014-04-05 06:41:30 PM  
Pattuq:

Anyone who breaks the commandments and commits sins but insists they are still a Christian has no idea what they're talking about.  The religion doesn't work that way - you can't selectively follow the parts that sound nice.  It's all or nothing.

Whoever told you that is a lying sack of shiat or someone who knows nothing about Christianity, or, indeed, anything about religion at all. I cannot express the level of contempt that I have for the idea that all must conform to a single source and single interpretation. That is not the way the Bible was compiled, neither the original nor the sequel, nor is it the way any religion works. The concept that there is only one hyper-specific and exclusionary set of documents and/or beliefs to salvation or utopia or whatever you want to call it is the domain of the cult, not a religion.

Religious beliefs are always mix-and-match, even among co-religionists, even among members of the same sects or sub-sects. Even believers in things that are anathema to the religion in general (such as Catholics arguing inerrancy of the Bible or for mortification or Abrahamics arguing against literacy, logic, and reason) can share the same faith. Even in more conservative sects of different faiths, there is always debate. Try getting three hassidic rabbis together without them arguing non-stop, for example. It's only the most pernicious belief systems where one idea must be hewn to and one system agreed to without open discussion or dissent.

/Sounds like Communism, actually.
//The Maoist branch specifically, but also the Stalinist variants as well.
 
2014-04-05 06:41:49 PM  

Pattuq: The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas. There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.


Capitalism can easily benefit the wider population, so long as it is understood that the system must invest in the improvement of all of the people and not just those at the top.

The problem today is that we have a capitalistic economy with an oligarchy.  Consolidation of power and capital in the hands of the few undermines the strength of the overall economy and leads to corruption of the government.  It is not a sustainable long term situation for a number of reasons, with revolution being one of the worst of them, economic stagnation being one of the most likely.
 
2014-04-05 06:44:42 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-05 06:46:00 PM  

Dinjiin: Pattuq: The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas. There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

Capitalism can easily benefit the wider population, so long as it is understood that the system must invest in the improvement of all of the people and not just those at the top.

The problem today is that we have a capitalistic economy with an oligarchy.  Consolidation of power and capital in the hands of the few undermines the strength of the overall economy and leads to corruption of the government.  It is not a sustainable long term situation for a number of reasons, with revolution being one of the worst of them, economic stagnation being one of the most likely.


Nicely put.
 
2014-04-05 06:46:48 PM  

Dinjiin: Pattuq: The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas. There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

Capitalism can easily benefit the wider population, so long as it is understood that the system must invest in the improvement of all of the people and not just those at the top.

The problem today is that we have a capitalistic economy with an oligarchy.  Consolidation of power and capital in the hands of the few undermines the strength of the overall economy and leads to corruption of the government.  It is not a sustainable long term situation for a number of reasons, with revolution being one of the worst of them, economic stagnation being one of the most likely.


Mmmm, the problem is that an economy run for the benefit of all the people, not just those at the top is most of the textbook definition of Socialism. And Socialism is a dirty word to Americans. The natural tendency is for Capitalism to concentrate wealth and income in the hands of ever-fewer people. You end up with a tiny number of oligarchs who have almost everything, a small professional class which is paid reasonably well and the vast majority gets the "Natural Wage" which means just enough to buy the bare minimum of calories needed to work. That's dead-classic textbook economics.
 
2014-04-05 06:47:53 PM  
"Communism was evil and had to be destroyed.
Capitalism is evil and will have to be destroyed."
 
2014-04-05 06:53:58 PM  

anuran: Mmmm, the problem is that an economy run for the benefit of all the people, not just those at the top is most of the textbook definition of Socialism. And Socialism is a dirty word to Americans. The natural tendency is for Capitalism to concentrate wealth and income in the hands of ever-fewer people. You end up with a tiny number of oligarchs who have almost everything, a small professional class which is paid reasonably well and the vast majority gets the "Natural Wage" which means just enough to buy the bare minimum of calories needed to work. That's dead-classic textbook economics.


There is no natural tendency.  That's like saying the natural tendency of Communism is to oppress everyone but the ruling class.
 
2014-04-05 06:57:49 PM  

anuran: GDubDub: I very much hope this Pope prepares his own tea.

Actually, he did while he was Archbishop. And he doesn't live in the Papal Palace. He's in a simple apartment in a guest building in Vatican City.


I very much know he practices the ideals of Christianity. I'm just worried about forces in the church that are very much unhappy about their mansions being taken away.

He told the mob to knock that shiat off. He told world leaders to knock that shiat off. He told the 1% to knock it the Fark off.

I hope he lives a very long time.
 
2014-04-05 06:57:50 PM  

Pattuq: MayoSlather: It's ridiculous that anyone that comes out to say that "Hey, umm maybe there are a bunch of flaws in capitalism that we need to shore up so it works better" that the instantaneous response is to call them a commie socialist totalitarian.

The Pope's continued message should be, capitalism is a tool to use in the economy to increase the quality of life for all, however by itself it's not a perfect system. We can do better.

The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

The instant "commie!!!!" response comes from the cold war, when people were brainwashed into hating and fearing communism and communists (and anything even remotely socialist, for that matter).  Most of the knee-jerk reactionists were either brought up then, or taught to believe the same things as their parents.


Yes, because we have food riots every day. Significant homelessness is a problem. Oh wait, no, thats not happening here in a capitalist society
 
2014-04-05 06:59:27 PM  

LordJiro: FLMountainMan: Pattuq: The only way  Capitalism Communism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

Even more true and practiced a lot more frequently..

Unchecked capitalism has done just as much damage to the world, if not more, than Communism.


Tell that to more than 100 million of their own dead at the hands of their governments, or the massive environmental damage in the communist states, which exceeded anything the capitalist state ever approached, or the millions more dispossessed, disenfranchised, and the billions that were outright enslaved. Nevermind the art and sciences that were oppressed because they didn't meet the party line. Capitalism has a lot of problems, as do mixed economies, but communism has caused more long-lasting despair.

/In 1990, my father helped establish this, with Senator Dietl, amongst others  https://feg.porto.ucp.pt/eetue/pageShow.aspx?IDPagina=1.2.4 .
/In 1991, we gave a water purifier to a friend/colleagues of my father in Warsaw. They sent it back within a week. The company responded that it "wasn't for industrial use". This was in a (relative) nice block of flats.
/In 1992, in Lodz, I saw a river sludging behind a palace(? looked like it, maybe something else) that had been converted into a museum. There had been workers cleaning it non-stop since '89. The people dredging it that day still had to swap boots every few hours while standing on it. I was told that this was a drastic improvement.
/Also in 1992, in Lodz, we cooled our sodas on the window sill. Within six hours, they would have at least a millimeter of soot on them. Sen. Dietl said that we should just wipe it off and it would be fine.
/That was a fun Senior Spring Break trip.
/1996, in Brno, Czech, my co-professor (first college teaching job) said "We were never bombed by the Nazis, but we had forty years of bombing under the Soviets" referring to the massive environmental damage. Brno was in the process of being cleaned/repaired at the time. The buildings that had been cleaned were bright, colorful, pretty interbellum structures. The ones that had yet to be cleaned were dark grey and caked with soot. There was a slowly moving line of color scrounging out the filth.
/Oh, and I found out that a quarter of Brno had been evacuated under the Soviets because they didn't want ethnic Germans living there. So the nicer houses were given to the Soviet occupation and the rest were let to go fallow. For forty years.
/Family is from inner city Detroit - this was much, much worse.
 
2014-04-05 06:59:31 PM  
Jesus was a socialist, not a communist.

He was also very incredibly awesome.

scratch that.

He Is very incredibly awesome.
 
2014-04-05 07:00:13 PM  

anuran: Dinjiin: Pattuq: The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas. There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

Capitalism can easily benefit the wider population, so long as it is understood that the system must invest in the improvement of all of the people and not just those at the top.

The problem today is that we have a capitalistic economy with an oligarchy.  Consolidation of power and capital in the hands of the few undermines the strength of the overall economy and leads to corruption of the government.  It is not a sustainable long term situation for a number of reasons, with revolution being one of the worst of them, economic stagnation being one of the most likely.

Mmmm, the problem is that an economy run for the benefit of all the people, not just those at the top is most of the textbook definition of Socialism. And Socialism is a dirty word to Americans. The natural tendency is for Capitalism to concentrate wealth and income in the hands of ever-fewer people. You end up with a tiny number of oligarchs who have almost everything, a small professional class which is paid reasonably well and the vast majority gets the "Natural Wage" which means just enough to buy the bare minimum of calories needed to work. That's dead-classic textbook economics.


I think you will find more and more people more open to that ideal if the current trends continue. We shouldn't have to force companies to care about their employees and pay decent wages. We shouldn't have to force bankers to stop making extremely risky bets that wont hurt themselves but the people that trusted them with the money. But as we continue to see we can't trust people to treat their employees and customers fairly so we have to force them to do it or have the government do it instead. And so I do expect the country as a whole to continue to move in that direction.
 
2014-04-05 07:04:28 PM  
Old and busted: gruesome religious wars of Europe Catholic v Protestant. New awesomeness: gruesome wars of Orthodox v Catholic, beginning with the breakup of Yugoslavia Good to see Putin and the US conservatives are on the same side.
 
2014-04-05 07:05:19 PM  

ultramarinblaa: Warning: Reading the townhall comment will make you loose at least 10 iq points. Those is some serious teabagging delusions.


Christ almighty, my head hurts. I got maybe halfway down the page of comments before parts of my brain wanted to rebel so that I was tasting light and touching sound. It got particularly bad when one commenter called someone [paraphrased] a typical liberal-communist homosexual. And upon reading that all liberals are always in lockstep at all times on all issues, well...I almost punched my monitor.

And I lost fifty IQ points, thanks.
 
2014-04-05 07:07:51 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]

Hell, their heads would explode if they actually had a clue what communism and socialism actually meant.

But that would take education and education is taboo unless it's Jesus approved.


Communism is a political branch of Marxism that wishes to enact socialism, a socio-economic system in which the means of production is controlled by the collective.

Now shut up.
 
2014-04-05 07:14:25 PM  

FormlessOne: Because "conservatives" are "oligarch-supporting fascists", not "patriots", "Christians", "the moral majority", or any other self-applied tag they choose. Most of them follow God because they believe that everyone who doesn't think like they do will be smited by the Almighty Ruler - and, of course, that's why they support anyone willing to demonstrate similar behavior here on Earth, too.

The poor? The poor clearly don't think like they do - otherwise, God would've rewarded them for their righteousness. The rich are, clearly, God's anointed, and so should be emulated, no matter how selfish, banal, or just plain evil their actions.


It's staggering how much of what you spew has no relation to reality.
 
2014-04-05 07:16:14 PM  
The conservative commentators posting in that article are all from my hometown and post in my hometown newspaper. Has to be so, its the same dumb shiat vomited up.

I like this pope.
 
2014-04-05 07:29:00 PM  

Frank N Stein: Agent Smiths Laugh: AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]

Hell, their heads would explode if they actually had a clue what communism and socialism actually meant.

But that would take education and education is taboo unless it's Jesus approved.

Communism is a political branch of Marxism that wishes to enact socialism, a socio-economic system in which the means of production is controlled by the collective.

Now shut up.


No.
 
2014-04-05 07:34:54 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: Frank N Stein: Agent Smiths Laugh: AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]

Hell, their heads would explode if they actually had a clue what communism and socialism actually meant.

But that would take education and education is taboo unless it's Jesus approved.

Communism is a political branch of Marxism that wishes to enact socialism, a socio-economic system in which the means of production is controlled by the collective.

Now shut up.

No.


Uhhh....yes. Are you simple or something?
 
2014-04-05 07:59:48 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-

That assumes you believe giving tax dollars to the government is the best way to help the poor.


If private charities did a better job, then government wouldn't have to step in to protect the general welfare of its populace.
 
2014-04-05 07:59:53 PM  

taurusowner: Agent Smiths Laugh: Frank N Stein: Agent Smiths Laugh: AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]

Hell, their heads would explode if they actually had a clue what communism and socialism actually meant.

But that would take education and education is taboo unless it's Jesus approved.

Communism is a political branch of Marxism that wishes to enact socialism, a socio-economic system in which the means of production is controlled by the collective.

Now shut up.

No.

Uhhh....yes. Are you simple or something?


No.
 
2014-04-05 08:01:09 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: Frank N Stein: Agent Smiths Laugh: AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]

Hell, their heads would explode if they actually had a clue what communism and socialism actually meant.

But that would take education and education is taboo unless it's Jesus approved.

Communism is a political branch of Marxism that wishes to enact socialism, a socio-economic system in which the means of production is controlled by the collective.

Now shut up.

No.


Or don't. No biggy. Happy Saturday.
 
2014-04-05 08:05:00 PM  

Frank N Stein: Agent Smiths Laugh: Frank N Stein: Agent Smiths Laugh: AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]

Hell, their heads would explode if they actually had a clue what communism and socialism actually meant.

But that would take education and education is taboo unless it's Jesus approved.

Communism is a political branch of Marxism that wishes to enact socialism, a socio-economic system in which the means of production is controlled by the collective.

Now shut up.

No.

Or don't. No biggy. Happy Saturday.


31.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-04-05 08:08:25 PM  

anuran: Mmmm, the problem is that an economy run for the benefit of all the people, not just those at the top is most of the textbook definition of Socialism


The United States is already a socialist nation.  Once you have any organization, public or private, that utilizes social ownership, you're it.  Cooperatives, mutuals, unions and government corps are all socialist organizations.  It just comes down to how large a part those organizations play in the overall economy.

I think what people really mean to say is that it requires us to be a welfare state, which we are.  How much of an investment in the well being and future of our people does the government play?  It doesn't just mean welfare checks to single unemployed women.  It is the entire system of social safety and education that a country's government is willing to provide.

Having a large number of state owned corporations is one thing.  Offering people food, housing, medicine and an education is another.  The latter, that's classic welfare state.  To some degree, is what is needed to maintain a robust capitalist society.

Of course, the devil is in the details.  You want a safety trampoline, not a safety hammock as your social net.  You want to provide a ladder for people to climb, not an elevator that requires no skill or effort.  You have to keep cronyism, corruption and mission creep in check.  Otherwise, the overhead reduces the efficiency and competitiveness of your economy, which leads to a downward spiral regarding unemployment.

People keep screaming socialism and welfare.  It is already around us.  From the Bank of North Dakota to Obamacare to the US Post Office.  The real question is, what is the right amount and kind of socialism and welfare, and how to we implement it so that is works best for all of us?
 
2014-04-05 08:23:38 PM  

Nemo's Brother: MayoSlather: It's ridiculous that anyone that comes out to say that "Hey, umm maybe there are a bunch of flaws in capitalism that we need to shore up so it works better" that the instantaneous response is to call them a commie socialist totalitarian.

The Pope's continued message should be, capitalism is a tool to use in the economy to increase the quality of life for all, however by itself it's not a perfect system. We can do better.

And the rich right don't want true capitalism. They want state to fund the risk while they reap the rewards.


/agree
 
2014-04-05 08:41:46 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: taurusowner: Agent Smiths Laugh: Frank N Stein: Agent Smiths Laugh: AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]

Hell, their heads would explode if they actually had a clue what communism and socialism actually meant.

But that would take education and education is taboo unless it's Jesus approved.

Communism is a political branch of Marxism that wishes to enact socialism, a socio-economic system in which the means of production is controlled by the collective.

Now shut up.

No.

Uhhh....yes. Are you simple or something?

No.


i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-04-05 09:09:51 PM  

jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-
[img.fark.net image 526x526]


Funny how Carter was supposedly so religious but apparently knows nothing about the Bible. I'm pretty sure Jesus never said "Thou shalt be forced by thine government to hand over ye money so that it may be distributed as they government sees fit. So...forget all that charity stuff. Just let them do it for you." And yeah yeah "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and blah blah blah...that really part of the issue. Carter's just a moron for making stupid assumptions.
 
2014-04-05 09:24:59 PM  

FLMountainMan: Pattuq: The only way  Capitalism Communism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

Even more true and practiced a lot more frequently..


Right, because communist Scandinavia is all about propaganda.....
 
2014-04-05 09:35:03 PM  
MayoSlather: It's ridiculous that anyone that comes out to say that "Hey, umm maybe there are a bunch of flaws in capitalism that we need to shore up so it works better" that the instantaneous response is to call them a commie socialist totalitarian.

The Pope's continued message should be, capitalism is a tool to use in the economy to increase the quality of life for all, however by itself it's not a perfect system. We can do better.

Nemo's Brother: And the rich right don't want true capitalism. They want state to fund the risk while they reap the rewards.



This is the age of crony capitalism.

Also, don't throw babby out with bathwater.
 
2014-04-05 09:44:54 PM  

jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.


Conservatives in other nations does not mean what it does in the USA but then most people see the term and believe what it put out without thinking at all.

I still believe the two party struggle is just a distraction and nobody knows who is really in control.
 
2014-04-05 09:49:00 PM  

jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.



How on earth do you get "conservatives are rejecting... the Pope" out of this article?
 
2014-04-05 10:01:54 PM  

Truther: jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.


How on earth do you get "conservatives are rejecting... the Pope" out of this article?


The last six months of Fox News and AM talk radio?
 
2014-04-05 10:19:58 PM  

Tellingthem: And Socialism is a dirty word to Americans.

Except as it's practiced by the NFL.

\revenue sharing
\\salary cap
\\\biggest loser rewarded with top draft picks
\\\\Winner punished for success with lowest draft picks

\I really don't know how to slashie

 
2014-04-05 10:20:09 PM  
I clicked a townhall link just to read the comments. Can't wait to dig into the derp.
 
2014-04-05 10:26:44 PM  

wax_on: I clicked a townhall link just to read the comments. Can't wait to dig into the derp.


You were warned.
 
2014-04-05 11:05:55 PM  

Frank N Stein: Are there any Marxists of fark? If so could you answer this question: being dialectical-materialist based theory, what materal basis do Marxist have in believing that's there's a "class conscious" that will spur a worker's revolution?


Not a Marxist, but I'd imagine it's 'the need for food'.

/The times when Marx is proven right are the times when that's what's happened
 
2014-04-05 11:06:08 PM  
Great comments by the Pope


Chris
Owner CEL Financial Services
Tax Return Preparer
Please visit my website for all your Income Tax Santa Paula needs..
 
2014-04-05 11:16:06 PM  

anfrind: wax_on: I clicked a townhall link just to read the comments. Can't wait to dig into the derp.

You were warned.


Wow. It's like they speak another language. Kind of like how communities that are isolated tend to have tongues that splinter off from the main language, including their own syntax and vocabulary. It seems like that's happening. These people spend so much time in their conservative echo chamber that their minds have evolved to not include the language of rational thought. Anyone who interjects with a comment that reflects an opposing point of view, no matter how rational ("maybe the Pope isn't a communist, maybe he just believes that it's everyone's responsibility to care for the poor, regardless of whether the method is by government or personal support.") they are instantly shouted down in a hail of hateful comments.

Looking at the moderate/liberal echo chamber that is the Fark politics tab I don't think it's like that. It seems like we at least try to engage our right-tards and get them to answer meaningful questions (which of course they seldom do.) Of course I might be wrong and just a product of my own bubble.
 
2014-04-05 11:17:39 PM  

dantheman195: Communism is forced by the boot of the government. If a person decides to give to charity, volunteer at a soup kitchen or help the poor on their own accord. That is not communism, that is just being a good charitable being. Pope Francis seems to promote helping the poor any way his church can and he preaches this, that is not communism, that is just being a good Pope.

That is the way I see it.


Except it's not what he says at all. He supports government programs that help the poor. And others. Not likely a big fan of the Ryan budgets(s).

And it's part of what most people think makes him a good Pope. Along with being kind, decent, open hearted and caring about people.

Nice try.
 
2014-04-05 11:21:54 PM  

iaazathot: DrewCurtisJr: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-

That assumes you believe giving tax dollars to the government is the best way to help the poor.

Find the data that shows any private endeavor in the US is better than the government at it.  We'll wait.


The data on the number of elderly living in poverty pre and post social security are rather convincing. Centuries of charity vs a few years of gov spending -
No contest.

Charity loses.
 
2014-04-05 11:23:50 PM  

Moopy Mac: Truther: jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.


How on earth do you get "conservatives are rejecting... the Pope" out of this article?

The last six months of Fox News and AM talk radio?


That's out of this article?
 
2014-04-06 12:48:12 AM  

jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.


Saint Malachy
 
2014-04-06 12:54:35 AM  

MemeSlave: It's the meek who are the problem!


That's what happens when you've got people living off their inheritance.
 
2014-04-06 02:31:36 AM  
Hiall, is this the thread were several people claim China and various other Eastern bloc countries are communist? That's great, we haven't seen that for a while.
 
2014-04-06 04:32:15 AM  

hinten: Hiall, is this the thread were several people claim China and various other Eastern bloc countries are communist? That's great, we haven't seen that for a while.


Well, considering Communism didnt work, its good that they abandoned it
 
2014-04-06 04:36:06 AM  
How did this guy get to be pope again? Is he really just saying all this stuff so the hardliners can disappear all the left-leaning Catholics? It's a trap.
 
2014-04-06 04:52:08 AM  

CruJones: My grandparents are uber-catholic, and very conservative, and they love this pope.


I'm related to some übercatholics, they generally groove on every pope.  It's the marginal catholics that get picky.
 
2014-04-06 05:57:40 AM  
If American christians and evangelicals weren't just a hodge podge collection of classical heresies they'd be less shocked by this sort of thing.

Donatism to the Prosperity Gospel, and everything in between. Heck, you want understand their world view - just wiki list of catholic heresies and boom. Pretty much a list of what the current right wing believes.
 
2014-04-06 08:03:19 AM  

jake_lex: I love how "conservatives" are rejecting both the President of the United States and the Pope and embracing the President of Russia.

We're through the derpy glass here, people.


From a historical perspective, it really is astonishing that the American right was able to seize the mantle of patriotism in the latter 20th century. In this country, it has always been the political right which has seethed with hatred for America, its Constitution, and its core values. From the beginning, the anti-constitution doctrines of nullification and secession were advanced by those  infuriated that the Constitution created an effective central government with the power to govern a nation.

These early anti-American doctrines culminated in the War of Southern Treason, when the proto-conservative movement embodied in the CSA's push for an intercontinental slave empire declared with a resounding voice, "you're not the boss of me! You can' make me do anything. Lalalalalalala!" These puerile Traitor-Slavers were quickly and correctly quashed; the only mistake of the era being America's failure to exact severe punitive measures against those who rose in treason to destroy the republic.

American southerners are, when you strip away all the congenialities, barbarians. They understand only strength; and they interpret all efforts to compromise and grant mercy as weakness. So when, for example, the United States failed to hang en masse every scum Confederate legislator who voted to destroy the republic because he was mad about the outcome of an election, the southern barbarian said to himself "Well, we gotz ta keep tellin' ar yunginz 'bout da War o' Northern Greshun. I don't care what that we started it n'all. We kin take theze yankees down--see how weak they iz?"

As a consequence, instead of being quashed with the CSA's dreams of Evil Empire, this sentiment of "America is evil" has lingered among the far-right wing of our population. Just something to keep in mind when it comes time to decide how punitively we should act against the "New Confederacy."
 
2014-04-06 09:07:02 AM  

cman: hinten: Hiall, is this the thread were several people claim China and various other Eastern bloc countries are communist? That's great, we haven't seen that for a while.

Well, considering Communism didnt work, its good that they abandoned it


Only a Republican would call the Chinese system communist.
 
2014-04-06 10:15:31 AM  

hardinparamedic: Pattuq: The only way Capitalism is sustainable is if you immediately shut up anyone with other ideas.  There's a lot of propaganda dedicated to making sure everyone supports it, even though capitalism only benefits a small percentage of the population.

Both capitalism and communism are unsustainable in a modern information age, where the majority of the population can be easily educated to the abuses and fallacies of both pure systems.

The real solution lies in the middle, namely with regulated freedom of business, and social democratic policies which provide support structures for the poor, needy, and ill to prevent from creating a continual lower poverty-ridden class.


Commie!
 
2014-04-06 10:31:31 AM  

Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara

Without poor people around, how will we get that warm fuzzy feeling in our heart about doing the right thing as we toss that dented outdated generic can of cream of lima bean soup into the food bank donation bin?

Yeah fark charity, right?

The point, she is flying over your head like an albatross.

No I totally get it. According to this thread, the Right systematically ignores the plight of the poor. And according to you, they also enjoy donating food to the poor. Air tight logic

/also, the albatross is suppose to hang around the neck. Get your literary devices right.


Because if you're really, really rich, there's tax incentives to donate.  For example, if you owe $250,000 in taxes, you can either pay it or donate 250K to a charity and get that back in the form of a 250K tax break.  While either way the money is paid, the latter way allows the rich person to say "I donated to the poor.  I'm a good person."  Just watch "The Apprentice", that's basically Trump's way of making money while lowering the tax bill at the same time.

Now you should understand that air tight logic.  It make's perfect sense if you know how the system actually works.

/knows rich people that do this
//their taxes would be lower if the employees made more and them less
///would rather make more than the employees have a better way of life
//and that's the dark side of capitalism
/fark you, I'm getting mine
 
2014-04-06 10:35:21 AM  

hinten: Hiall, is this the thread were several people claim China and various other Eastern bloc countries are communist? That's great, we haven't seen that for a while.


They were until the fall of the wall in the Warsaw Pact and China was until the 90s as well. Currently, it's a strict communist political overlay with state control over a market economy, so a fascistic economy.

/That was also the direction that Lenin started pushing the USSR in his last years. Trotsky and Stalin did not like that.
//State Capitalism is not a thing.
 
2014-04-06 10:40:31 AM  

skeevy420: Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara

Without poor people around, how will we get that warm fuzzy feeling in our heart about doing the right thing as we toss that dented outdated generic can of cream of lima bean soup into the food bank donation bin?

Yeah fark charity, right?

The point, she is flying over your head like an albatross.

No I totally get it. According to this thread, the Right systematically ignores the plight of the poor. And according to you, they also enjoy donating food to the poor. Air tight logic

/also, the albatross is suppose to hang around the neck. Get your literary devices right.

Because if you're really, really rich, there's tax incentives to donate.  For example, if you owe $250,000 in taxes, you can either pay it or donate 250K to a charity and get that back in the form of a 250K tax break.  While either way the money is paid, the latter way allows the rich person to say "I donated to the poor.  I'm a good person."  Just watch "The Apprentice", that's basically Trump's way of making money while lowering the tax bill at the same time.


That just means that they aren't taxed on that $250k. Donating to charity doesn't reduce your tax burden except by the amount you would be taxed for that same amount if you hadn't donated. In fact, that hasn't been the case since the 80s.

For example, if I'm taxed at 30% and I make $10,000 (not a real thing, $10,000 means you get money from the government, not pay it), I pay $3000. If I donate $1000, my taxes are $2700, not $2000.

So the benefit to me, financially, is none.
 
2014-04-06 10:58:54 AM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: AgentPothead: Today's republicans would literally have their minds explode if they knew what "republican" meant 100 years ago.
[agentpothead.com image 400x295]

Hell, their heads would explode if they actually had a clue what communism and socialism actually meant.

But that would take education and education is taboo unless it's Jesus approved.


That.
One of the guys I work for was a Vietnam Air Force Vet, his Dad an Army Air Corps Vet from WWII, and he hated socialism.  When I explained that socialism was paying for aspects of the society with tax money, like police, firemen, buses, park services, mediacre/medicade, and that the military is socialist."

 "I've always believed that socialism would be like living under NAZI rule.  But how is the military socialist?"

"It could be if the government is corrupt, but look at countries like Sweden & Switzerland, they're socialist, they have a much higher quality of life than us because, unlike America, they're social programs are much better because they're not ruled by greedy capitalists only focused on pure profits,  I know I'm sounding a bit anti-America, but I just believe that the big businesses should be regulated differently so that we don't have companies like Walmart that pay employees so little that they require government subsidies to pay bills and eat; and that someone working a 40 hour week shouldn't need government assistance.  For that matter, I find it sad that they're not going full out socialism with Obambacare.  It's a good idea in principle, but it just doesn't go far enough because the government is too busy biatching about semantics and ideals than actually doing the right thing."

:Now the military, just like police and firemen, they're socialist because it's an organization funded by American tax payers to protect the greater good of America.  That's pure socialism in it's finest, going by the simplest definition of socialism."

"I see what you mean there."

After we talked for a bit longer, he actually agreed with quite a bit of my beliefs about socialism, better business regulations, extending healthcare, better and more enforced environmental policies,  It's not his fault that entire generations of American's were brainwashed into thinking that socialism and communism are evil and bad.  They can be, but it depends on the government/ruling elite and how they act, just like capitalism.
 
2014-04-06 11:05:28 AM  

luidprand: skeevy420: Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara

Without poor people around, how will we get that warm fuzzy feeling in our heart about doing the right thing as we toss that dented outdated generic can of cream of lima bean soup into the food bank donation bin?

Yeah fark charity, right?

The point, she is flying over your head like an albatross.

No I totally get it. According to this thread, the Right systematically ignores the plight of the poor. And according to you, they also enjoy donating food to the poor. Air tight logic

/also, the albatross is suppose to hang around the neck. Get your literary devices right.

Because if you're really, really rich, there's tax incentives to donate.  For example, if you owe $250,000 in taxes, you can either pay it or donate 250K to a charity and get that back in the form of a 250K tax break.  While either way the money is paid, the latter way allows the rich person to say "I donated to the poor.  I'm a good person."  Just watch "The Apprentice", that's basically Trump's way of making money while lowering the tax bill at the same time.

That just means that they aren't taxed on that $250k. Donating to charity doesn't reduce your tax burden except by the amount you would be taxed for that same amount if you hadn't donated. In fact, that hasn't been the case since the 80s.

For example, if I'm taxed at 30% and I make $10,000 (not a real thing, $10,000 means you get money from the government, not pay it), I pay $3000. If I donate $1000, my taxes are $2700, not $2000.

So the benefit to me, financially, is none.


Perhaps I understood the guy wrong 6 months ago, but his exact words were "I'm donating a 100K to not pay a 100K in taxes."  I'm never going to pretend to be an expert in tax law...perhaps he knows of a loophole we're unaware of, or just wrong.  IDK, but that's what I was told from a guy with over 10M in the bank.
 
2014-04-06 11:19:41 AM  

skeevy420: luidprand: skeevy420: Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Frank N Stein: FunkOut: Sgt Otter: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist."

- Hélder Câmara

Without poor people around, how will we get that warm fuzzy feeling in our heart about doing the right thing as we toss that dented outdated generic can of cream of lima bean soup into the food bank donation bin?

Yeah fark charity, right?

The point, she is flying over your head like an albatross.

No I totally get it. According to this thread, the Right systematically ignores the plight of the poor. And according to you, they also enjoy donating food to the poor. Air tight logic

/also, the albatross is suppose to hang around the neck. Get your literary devices right.

Because if you're really, really rich, there's tax incentives to donate.  For example, if you owe $250,000 in taxes, you can either pay it or donate 250K to a charity and get that back in the form of a 250K tax break.  While either way the money is paid, the latter way allows the rich person to say "I donated to the poor.  I'm a good person."  Just watch "The Apprentice", that's basically Trump's way of making money while lowering the tax bill at the same time.

That just means that they aren't taxed on that $250k. Donating to charity doesn't reduce your tax burden except by the amount you would be taxed for that same amount if you hadn't donated. In fact, that hasn't been the case since the 80s.

For example, if I'm taxed at 30% and I make $10,000 (not a real thing, $10,000 means you get money from the government, not pay it), I pay $3000. If I donate $1000, my taxes are $2700, not $2000.

So the benefit to me, financially, is none.

Perhaps I understood the guy wrong 6 months ago, but his exact words were "I'm donating a 100K to not pay a 100K in taxes."  I'm never going to pretend to be an expert in tax law...perhaps he knows of a loophole we're unaware of, or just wrong.  IDK, but that's wh ...


Not an accountant, but you can (legally) shelter your money through retirement accounts, some trusts, and some long-term capital expenditures. Charities are not shelters, although many people still think they are, both because of popular culture and a grossly outdated misunderstanding of how charity donations work. Charitable donations are taken off at taxable income, not taxes to be paid.

A good, quick summary, can be found here.
 
2014-04-06 11:39:11 AM  
Thanks.  Interesting, but damn boring read.

After you replied the first time I just assumed the either him or his accountant* haven't kept of with the tax code all that much.  He became rich in the 70's and 80's and possibly still thought some of those laws were still in effect.  Like I said, I'm no tax expert, only paying what I have to, if I have to.

*not sure if he has one; my Mom's boss; don't know him that well

Another rich guy I know won't even talk about finances so he can pretend to be poor.  For example, he wanted some "spending money" and din't want to touch his bank account, so he went to a cash for gold type place or a gold exchange with some gold he had laying around.  The gold place had to go to the bank and get a loan to pay him the $180,000 in gold he brought in.  That gold was nothing to him, he has individual coins from shipwrecks worth hundreds of thousands a piece as well as lots of other valuable stuff.
 
2014-04-06 11:39:53 AM  
that very first the should have been that......sigh
 
2014-04-06 12:10:54 PM  

jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-
[img.fark.net image 526x526]


So the Christian thing to do is threaten people with jail if they don't "donate" to the general fund, some of which will be used to help the poor and most of which will be used to enrich cronies and kill foreigners.
 
2014-04-06 12:34:14 PM  

skeevy420: Perhaps I understood the guy wrong 6 months ago, but his exact words were "I'm donating a 100K to not pay a 100K in taxes."  I'm never going to pretend to be an expert in tax law...perhaps he knows of a loophole we're unaware of, or just wrong.  IDK, but that's what I was told from a guy with over 10M in the bank.


He may get out of paying $100K in taxes, but he's dong so by donating $100K to charity, so in the end he's still paying $100K.  The only thing that changes is who gets his money.

I can think of two reasons for someone like him to donate to charity:

1. He thinks the charity would make better use of that money than the government.
2. He has a pathological aversion to paying taxes.

/could be both
 
2014-04-06 12:50:13 PM  
Wow, so much ignorance in this thread... allow me to clarify some things based on, you know, what the Bible actually says.

The Gospel, in essence, is this: because of the Original Sin, mankind became separated from God.  God incarnated in human form (Jesus) to take upon himself the penalty for that sin (death), allowing those who accept his act to be reconciled back to him.  That's it, plain and simple.  Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to get something from you.

Jesus didn't come to be a social reformer, a rules lawyer, a political antagonist, or anything else so petty.  His mission had two objectives: pay mankind's sin debt with his own blood and start an organization that would carry his message down through the ages.  Unfortunately that organization has been split and corrupted so many times that the original message is nearly lost.  And those who do still follow it are overshadowed by all the bad press surrounding the others.

Now, Jesus did advocate a lifestyle of love and generosity, because we have received such things from him and ought to pay it forward, so to speak.  He also tended to hang around with the poor and sick because they were generally more receptive to his message than the elites who think they already have things figured out for themselves.  But that was only tangential to his message, not the core.
 
2014-04-06 12:56:57 PM  

jigger: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-
[img.fark.net image 526x526]

So the Christian thing to do is threaten people with jail if they don't "donate" to the general fund, some of which will be used to help the poor and most of which will be used to enrich cronies and kill foreigners.


I couldn't really say - I'm no Christian. Regardless, to me the point of the quote seems to be that if you believe in true Christian values, tax money should  not largely be spent to enrich cronies and kill foreigners. Much more of it should be spent on enriching our own disadvantaged citizens. The subtex would be that a lot of vocal supporters who claim to represent Christian/family values  are in support of funding corporations/wars, but not so much social programs.

Having said that-  In this country, I don't think seeking penalties for tax evasion is a Christian thing per se- but more so a Gov't/IRS thing. I don't know of anybody who's been audited by a Bishop.
 
2014-04-06 01:00:53 PM  

jigger: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-
[img.fark.net image 526x526]

So the Christian thing to do is threaten people with jail if they don't "donate" to the general fund, some of which will be used to help the poor and most of which will be used to enrich cronies and kill foreigners.


I couldn't really say - I'm no Christian. Regardless, to me the point of the quote seems to be that if you believe in true Christian values, tax money should  not largely be spent to enrich cronies and kill foreigners. Much more of it should be spent on enriching our own disadvantaged citizens. The subtext would be that a lot of vocal supporters who claim to represent Christian/family values  are in support of funding corporations/wars, but not so much social programs.

Having said that-  In this country, I don't think seeking penalties for tax evasion is a Christian thing per se- but more so a Gov't/IRS thing. I don't know of anybody who's been audited by a Bishop.
 
2014-04-06 01:17:45 PM  

jonnya: I live in a crappy neighborhood in Jersey City/NYC. I have direct access to quite a few poor folk. I give a buck or two here and there to those who ask- but I'm not thinking that it's an alternative to gov't funded programs. Why not both?


Because people who oppose government help for the poor (especially FEDERAL government help) have issue not with their tax dollars being spent as much as their tax dollars being spent on "those people". "Charity" gives them an easy out, as their giving is targeted toward a group or groups of people they like, or who are local to them and not "those people over there". They get to feel all warm and fuzzy, write it off on their taxes, and give the middle finger to people who "aren't like them" all at the same time. Government assistance makes no such distinctions, and is therefore evil cause reasons.

It's exactly what Jesus would have wanted. Really.
 
2014-04-06 01:23:07 PM  

jonnya: jigger: jonnya: Semi relevant pic that a friend posted on Facebook this morning. I gave it a hearty 'like'-
[img.fark.net image 526x526]

So the Christian thing to do is threaten people with jail if they don't "donate" to the general fund, some of which will be used to help the poor and most of which will be used to enrich cronies and kill foreigners.

I couldn't really say - I'm no Christian. Regardless, to me the point of the quote seems to be that if you believe in true Christian values, tax money should  not largely be spent to enrich cronies and kill foreigners. Much more of it should be spent on enriching our own disadvantaged citizens. The subtex would be that a lot of vocal supporters who claim to represent Christian/family values  are in support of funding corporations/wars, but not so much social programs.

Having said that-  In this country, I don't think seeking penalties for tax evasion is a Christian thing per se- but more so a Gov't/IRS thing. I don't know of anybody who's been audited by a Bishop.


If you believe in Christian values, donate when you can, butt out when you can't, and either way follow the Golden Rule.

Of course, the problem with a term like "Christian values" is that there are a dozen major forms of Christianity with handful of sects in the lead, just like Jewish and Muslim religions, and we know that all of those sects have different interpretations of the source material, some of them major
 
2014-04-06 01:49:24 PM  

rewind2846: jonnya: I live in a crappy neighborhood in Jersey City/NYC. I have direct access to quite a few poor folk. I give a buck or two here and there to those who ask- but I'm not thinking that it's an alternative to gov't funded programs. Why not both?

Because people who oppose government help for the poor (especially FEDERAL government help) have issue not with their tax dollars being spent as much as their tax dollars being spent on "those people". "Charity" gives them an easy out, as their giving is targeted toward a group or groups of people they like, or who are local to them and not "those people over there". They get to feel all warm and fuzzy, write it off on their taxes, and give the middle finger to people who "aren't like them" all at the same time. Government assistance makes no such distinctions, and is therefore evil cause reasons.

It's exactly what Jesus would have wanted. Really.


Not exactly.  It's more targeted to people who meet certain economic conditions, but government assistance doesn't have to be monetary(see affirmative action).

Anyways, is Bill Gates, the world's foremost active philanthropist, a bad person because he only donates to specific causes(causes his foundation identifies as the who can make the most positive change with an equal donation)?  Or should he just give that money to the government to let them spend down war debt?
 
2014-04-06 04:16:44 PM  

bhcompy: Anyways, is Bill Gates, the world's foremost active philanthropist, a bad person because he only donates to specific causes(causes his foundation identifies as the who can make the most positive change with an equal donation)?


No, he is not. But he's also not insisting that those causes and the private giving he and others do should be the only way to help the poor. In other words, he's not campaigning for reductions or elimination of WIC, EBT, welfare, Social Security disability, or any other federal, state or county assistance for the poor paid for with tax dollars.

He gives what he gives, and that's it.

It's the people who would like targeted charities to be used INSTEAD of government assistance that I have issue with, because of their issues with helping "other people" with their taxes and only want them to be spent on those things (and people) which directly affect them. This is also why most of their vitriol is focused on the federal government, with less bile projected as the governmental bodies get more and more local.

After all, before the feds started to do their thing during the Great Depression charities really did a bang up job of helping the poor, didn't they?

/the last part was what is known as a "rhetorical question"
 
Displayed 138 of 138 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report