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(STLToday)   High school students under investigation for spreading nude selfies. Clearly, they do not understand the rules of BIE   (stltoday.com) divider line 159
    More: Dumbass, Fort Zumwalt East High School, high schools, Fort Zumwalt, investigation, public information, teens  
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7591 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Apr 2014 at 10:33 AM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



159 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-05 07:18:08 AM
Ok, class. Let's try this again.  What is the first rule of BIE?

/eip
//i want to believe
 
2014-04-05 07:22:33 AM
I was born too soon.
 
2014-04-05 09:05:22 AM
These young girls seem to be under the illusion that they own their bodies.
 
2014-04-05 09:42:36 AM
It's pronounced Doo-mahs
 
2014-04-05 09:49:25 AM
BIE? I don't believe they exist.
 
2014-04-05 09:54:01 AM

Speaker2Animals: I was born too soon.


The flip side is that all the stupid stuff you did as a teenager and in your twenties (often while drunk) didn't end up filmed on someones phone and uploaded to YouTube and beyond.
 
2014-04-05 10:12:33 AM
I'm a bit of a connoisseur, and I've seen a few nudes in my days but I find that spreading nude selfies tend to be a bit pinker in the crotchal region.

The more you know....
 
2014-04-05 10:23:39 AM
The avalanche has started, and the pebbles think they not only get a vote, but that they have a trump card.

The amount of inappropriate pictures being circulated by high school students is staggering.
 
2014-04-05 10:39:58 AM
The lesson taught here: You're better off killing a policeman; at least once you're out of prison you aren't on a sex-offender registry.
 
2014-04-05 10:41:41 AM
What is this BIE you speak of?
 
2014-04-05 10:42:32 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: BIE? I don't believe they exist.


They are real.
And they're spectacular.
 
2014-04-05 10:43:25 AM
http://wtvr.com/2014/04/04/teen-sexting-investigation-spans-six-va-cou nties/
 
2014-04-05 10:43:37 AM
BIE...
Nice to see the lonely teen's haven't left fark.
 
2014-04-05 10:43:39 AM
This is inappropriate and all that, but really, these are all a bunch of horned up teenagers being dumbasses.
Giving them criminal records, especially for things like 'child pornography' is not going to help them be productive members of society. In fact, it will pretty much guarantee that they'll not amount to much because when an employer sees 'child pron' they are not going to think 'nude selfie at 17 years of age'.
 
2014-04-05 10:44:28 AM
 
2014-04-05 10:45:11 AM

buzzcut73: This is inappropriate and all that, but really, these are all a bunch of horned up teenagers being dumbasses.
Giving them criminal records, especially for things like 'child pornography' is not going to help them be productive members of society. In fact, it will pretty much guarantee that they'll not amount to much because when an employer sees 'child pron' they are not going to think 'nude selfie at 17 years of age'.


This is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how mainstream this is in high school.
 
2014-04-05 10:48:39 AM
Missouri is the "show me state".
 
2014-04-05 10:49:55 AM
I just want to go on record stating that I strictly adhere to the rules of BIE.

However, when accompanied by a "wishlist", I consider it as classless as a spam email.

/amiright?
//amiwrong?
 
2014-04-05 10:51:48 AM
What is sexting? I need tips.

www.graveandmostglorious.com
 
2014-04-05 10:53:39 AM
So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.
 
2014-04-05 10:54:28 AM
Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?
 
2014-04-05 10:54:33 AM
FTA:   "These guys, who have gotten their pictures, have been collecting them like someone might collect baseball cards," [the superintendent] said.

In the spokes of their bike wheels?!?

/bike wheel in profile
 
2014-04-05 10:56:29 AM

AndreMA: The lesson taught here: You're better off killing a policeman; at least once you're out of prison you aren't on a sex-offender registry.


Yep.  Or any other violent crime.


I don't understand the need for pics.
 
2014-04-05 10:57:27 AM
Nudity is not pornography.
 
2014-04-05 10:57:57 AM

mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.


There are religious liberals as well. If your going to put something in a box at just say bible thumpers.
 
2014-04-05 10:58:01 AM
Is BIE still a thing after what's-her-face left?
 
2014-04-05 10:58:55 AM

mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.


markfara: Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?


The problem is that if this isn't a crime, then kids will be able to freely share the CP, and if they can freely share the CP, the server can have the CP, and if the server can legitimately have CP, the administrator can view the CP and no one can do anything about it, and next thing you know, perverts and predators will be viewing the CP.

Inroads against predators have only been made with aggressive attempts at controlling the sources of CP. That is incompatible with allowing minors that much leeway.
 
2014-04-05 10:59:03 AM
www.benzworld.org

/a seat over there?
 
2014-04-05 10:59:13 AM

mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.


I know this may be hard to believe but there are millions of adults who are not religious conservatives who don't want their children sending naked pictures of themselves to other people
 
2014-04-05 10:59:41 AM

SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.


Society and the law think otherwise.

As is demonstrated time and again.
 
2014-04-05 11:01:14 AM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

I know this may be hard to believe but there are millions of adults who are not religious conservatives who don't want their children sending naked pictures of themselves to other people


Good luck with that. It's so prevalent that even what little off-hand comments I hear as a teacher are frightening.
 
2014-04-05 11:01:23 AM

Nabb1: Speaker2Animals: I was born too soon.

The flip side is that all the stupid stuff you did as a teenager and in your twenties (often while drunk) didn't end up filmed on someones phone and uploaded to YouTube and beyond.


This.  There would be no way I'd have ever gotten a job ever in my life, had cameras been as prolific back then, and had I a "blog" into which I described my exploits of that day.

If you wanted to see a girl naked, you either saw it in person or you could go buy a playboy if you wanted 2d versions.
 
2014-04-05 11:01:27 AM

SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.


But nudity to a teen is.

/I know, I used to be one
//what the hell...eip
 
2014-04-05 11:03:35 AM

IamAwake: Nabb1: Speaker2Animals: I was born too soon.

The flip side is that all the stupid stuff you did as a teenager and in your twenties (often while drunk) didn't end up filmed on someones phone and uploaded to YouTube and beyond.

This.  There would be no way I'd have ever gotten a job ever in my life, had cameras been as prolific back then, and had I a "blog" into which I described my exploits of that day.

If you wanted to see a girl naked, you either saw it in person or you could go buy a playboy if you wanted 2d versions.


Were the technology today been available when I was a kid... good lord - thank God very little was saved for posterity then. Heck - the parents' ability to check their child's grade and homework throughout the year would have made my life a living hell.
 
2014-04-05 11:04:31 AM

Mentalpatient87: Is BIE still a thing after what's-her-face left?


No... but I'm willing to be proven wrong. :-) I too follow the rules!

/EIP
 
2014-04-05 11:04:47 AM
What the hell does BIE stand for?
 
2014-04-05 11:05:40 AM

danielscissorhands: What the hell does BIE stand for?


Boobiess. In. Email.
 
2014-04-05 11:07:01 AM

vudukungfu: PC LOAD LETTER: BIE? I don't believe they exist.

They are real.
And they're spectacular.


This is so.

web.mit.edu
 
2014-04-05 11:08:00 AM

SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.


Well, the two are not synonymous.

But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.
 
2014-04-05 11:09:37 AM

Nabb1: Speaker2Animals: I was born too soon.

The flip side is that all the stupid stuff you did as a teenager and in your twenties (often while drunk) didn't end up filmed on someones phone and uploaded to YouTube and beyond.


no, but it  did end up on a "Girls Gone Wild" video filmed by some guy with a 1990's handi-cam.
 
2014-04-05 11:10:46 AM
Unless there are new BIE senders (or new BIE pics from current senders) I think I have all the BIE that's been sent out on Fark. I wouldn't mind at all being proven wrong though ;-)

/EIP just in case.
//Absolutely love the ones who like reciprocation.
 
2014-04-05 11:14:10 AM

vygramul: danielscissorhands: What the hell does BIE stand for?

Boobiess. In. Email.


Oh, thanks.
 
2014-04-05 11:14:17 AM

GrymRpr: BIE...
Nice to see the lonely teen's haven't left fark.


been here for decades!

Secret Agent X23: SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.

Well, the two are not synonymous.

But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.


go on ...
 
2014-04-05 11:21:09 AM

SDRR: GrymRpr: BIE...
Nice to see the lonely teen's haven't left fark.

been here for decades!

Secret Agent X23: SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.

Well, the two are not synonymous.

But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.

go on ...

theshiatiputupwith.jpg
 
2014-04-05 11:23:13 AM
I'm sorry. I'm just trying to think how rich and powerful a self-made plutocrat has to be in the future to say, "Yes, I made a nude selfie of myself when I was underaged. And I'm not going anywhere, so fark you and do what I say, because money."

/thinking Putin and Kock level
//not enough money if you have a vagina
 
2014-04-05 11:26:06 AM

SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.

 Drawings of nudity can be child pornography.  (Link is SFW)
 
2014-04-05 11:27:13 AM
Is there a particular reason why we never care to distinguish between the teen that initially takes and sends the selfie to someone with an expectation of privacy (however practically "stupid" that may be) and then the countless little shiats that circulate the picture? Even if they shouldn't necessarily be charged with separate types of crimes (if one gets all hot and bothered about equal application of the law above all else), why should they be treated the same for purposes of discussion?
 
2014-04-05 11:28:09 AM
I'm having a horrible Saturday thus far and BIE would really make everything better...

/EIP
 
2014-04-05 11:31:37 AM

RodneyToady: SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.
 Drawings of nudity can be child pornography.  (Link is SFW)


Every fan of anime just felt a chill down their spine
 
2014-04-05 11:36:00 AM

diaphoresis: What is sexting? I need tips.


Just the tip?
 
2014-04-05 11:37:44 AM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

I know this may be hard to believe but there are millions of adults who are not religious conservatives who don't want their children sending naked pictures of themselves to other people


Yes, but those religious conservatives have successfully spread their own irrational fear of the normal human body and healthy sexuality throughout our society. They've been at this since pretty much the beginning of our country.

Every single human being ever has had a naked body. Making such a big deal about them is stupid and counter-productive. And teenagers having sex has happened since a little time called ALWAYS. Getting bent out of shape about it is also stupid and counter-productive.

So what, you think your daughter getting criminal charges for doing what's going to come natural to her in our repressed society is going to help her? You're nuts if you do. There are plenty of first world nations with access to electronic communication who don't give their teenagers criminal records for acting like teenagers and they are just fine... hell, better than us by many metrics.
 
2014-04-05 11:40:50 AM
That fine line between nudity as art and nudity as pornography...

img.fark.net

This woman clearly should be stoned for driving these men wild.  We all know men can't help ourselves.
 
2014-04-05 11:42:19 AM
"These guys, who have gotten their pictures, have been collecting them like someone might collect baseball cards,"

Thank you, Ric Romero.
 
2014-04-05 11:44:47 AM

RodneyToady: SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.
 Drawings of nudity can be child pornography.  (Link is SFW)


The government is possibly lying (shocking, I know):

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition

"Ferber expressly allowed virtual child pornography as an alternative that could preserve whatever literary value child pornography might arguably have while at the same time mitigating the harm caused by making it."
 
2014-04-05 11:45:20 AM
My favorite part of TFA was:

"DuBray said Fort Zumwalt had invited a former family court judge to conduct seminars two years ago at all the middle schools, discussing how dangerous sexting can be and the legal implications of being charged with a crime for sending or forwarding an inappropriate picture."

Uhh, dude, it's a school. Kids usually move up grades and out to high school or transfer in and out.

/I'm sure he thinks that one visit was supposed to have lasted forever.
 
2014-04-05 11:45:43 AM

vygramul: I wonder why fark malforms URLs when pasted like that. Anyway, try this one about a multi-county sexting investigation that has seized 24 cell phones so far.


I think it is because the text box where you enter the URL creates line breaks,and those get converted to spaces. I have learned over the years to paste them into the URL field in the browser and then delete the spaces.
 
2014-04-05 11:45:45 AM
Pics or it didn't happen.

/yes I will have a seat over there
 
2014-04-05 11:47:56 AM

vygramul: Inroads against predators have only been made with aggressive attempts at controlling the sources of CP. That is incompatible with allowing minors that much leeway.


we could try identifying and providing (mental, social, etc) help to those whose seek out the CP...
 
2014-04-05 11:48:22 AM
So, how do I get on the CC list? Usually I hate getting caught in that loop but I'd put up with this one.

/as long as they're not all cock picks
 
2014-04-05 11:48:45 AM
Pfft- nude teen selfies.
I'll believe it when I see it.

/hang on, someone's at the door...
 
2014-04-05 11:49:11 AM
I always get a kick out of the guys on FARK who ask women here to send them pictures of their tits.  I don't know if that signals desperation or an inability to use Google, but damn it....it's funny.

As to the subject of the article however, my sister has had issues with students in her class sending one another inappropriate photos, and she's at her wit's end on what to do about it.  Did I mention she teaches the 7th grade?  High schoolers are obviously different than middle schoolers, but you can't help but question not just the intelligence of the students doing this, but the parenting they're getting at home.
 
2014-04-05 11:49:29 AM

SquiggsIN: That fine line between nudity as art and nudity as pornography...

[img.fark.net image 625x416]

This woman clearly should be stoned for driving these men wild.  We all know men can't help ourselves.


She is totally asking for it.
 
2014-04-05 11:51:44 AM
The first rule of BIE club is you do not talk about who sends you BIE!
The second rule of BIE club is you do not talk about who sends you BIE, no matter how spectacular they are!


/eip
 
2014-04-05 11:53:32 AM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

I know this may be hard to believe but there are millions of adults who are not religious conservatives who don't want their children sending naked pictures of themselves to other people


If these parents don't want their children sending naked pictures of themselves, they need to tell that to their children. The answer is not to criminalize millions of children with child porn laws.
 
2014-04-05 11:57:59 AM
Anyone want to see my spectacular tits?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

www.wildlifetrusts.org


That's just for you, FARK.  I'd never share them with anyone else.  Pinky promise.
 
2014-04-05 11:58:28 AM

Secret Agent X23: SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.

Well, the two are not synonymous.

But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.


You could also say that that isn't the problem of the picture, but of the second guy.
 
2014-04-05 12:01:21 PM

HeartlineTwist: Is there a particular reason why we never care to distinguish between the teen that initially takes and sends the selfie to someone with an expectation of privacy (however practically "stupid" that may be) and then the countless little shiats that circulate the picture? Even if they shouldn't necessarily be charged with separate types of crimes (if one gets all hot and bothered about equal application of the law above all else), why should they be treated the same for purposes of discussion?


The laws were written decades before cheap digital cameras.  In those days, casual selfies of any kind simply did not exist, and it was unimaginable that the subject of a pornographic work could also be the distributor.
 
2014-04-05 12:06:14 PM
Teenagers doing teenage stuff shouldn't be a crime, and it's not child porn regardless of what the law says.  Technically a pedophile wouldn't even be interested in these.
 
2014-04-05 12:10:20 PM

CruJones: Teenagers doing teenage stuff shouldn't be a crime, and it's not child porn regardless of what the law says.  Technically a pedophile wouldn't even be interested in these.


No, a pedophile wouldn't, as they are sexually attracted to prepubescent children, but in the eyes of a law, a child is any human being from the age of birth to 18.  So, a nude photo a 16-year-old took for her boyfriend is considered child porn, and if the boyfriend sends it to his buddies, as teenage boys are just barely smarter than slime mold, he can get hauled in for disseminating child pornography.  Doesn't matter that the girl is old enough to work and drive a car.
 
2014-04-05 12:11:12 PM

vygramul: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

markfara: Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?

The problem is that if this isn't a crime, then kids will be able to freely share the CP, and if they can freely share the CP, the server can have the CP, and if the server can legitimately have CP, the administrator can view the CP and no one can do anything about it, and next thing you know, perverts and predators will be viewing the CP.

Inroads against predators have only been made with aggressive attempts at controlling the sources of CP. That is incompatible with allowing minors that much leeway.


I dont see a problem if a pervert finds these selfies. Is there a problem other than its icky?
 
2014-04-05 12:12:00 PM

markfara: Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?


Because you are dumbass Americans, run by a Taliban-esque government. You were founded by religious nut cases that were banished from Europe. Your ancestors believed slavery was a grand idea. You are only a few generations from this insanity.
 
2014-04-05 12:12:26 PM
I to must echo:
THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICS!
 
2014-04-05 12:17:10 PM

bobothemagnificent: I to must echo:
THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICS!


THIS^
 
2014-04-05 12:19:45 PM

Coco LaFemme: I always get a kick out of the guys on FARK who ask women here to send them pictures of their tits.  I don't know if that signals desperation or an inability to use Google, but damn it....it's funny.

As to the subject of the article however, my sister has had issues with students in her class sending one another inappropriate photos, and she's at her wit's end on what to do about it.  Did I mention she teaches the 7th grade?  High schoolers are obviously different than middle schoolers, but you can't help but question not just the intelligence of the students doing this, but the parenting they're getting at home.


What do you care what other people do? I guarantee you've got something about you that the rest of us would gladly pounce upon to take a few inches off your pedestal.
 
2014-04-05 12:23:16 PM

Nabb1: Speaker2Animals: I was born too soon.

The flip side is that all the stupid stuff you did as a teenager and in your twenties (often while drunk) didn't end up filmed on someones phone and uploaded to YouTube and beyond.


And we thought the Polaroid was exciting.

/Born in 1960
 
2014-04-05 12:23:33 PM

danielscissorhands: vygramul: danielscissorhands: What the hell does BIE stand for?

Boobiess. In. Email.

Oh, thanks.


I have never received a bie
 
2014-04-05 12:24:30 PM

danielscissorhands: What the hell does BIE stand for?


Bureau of Indian Education, duh!
 
2014-04-05 12:24:51 PM
I have a feeling the legislators, prosecutors and parents would have a change of tune if it was their snowflake that was busted for doing this and it was their kid staring at a criminal sex charge and the offender list.
 
2014-04-05 12:31:18 PM

mongbiohazard: Contrabulous Flabtraption: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

I know this may be hard to believe but there are millions of adults who are not religious conservatives who don't want their children sending naked pictures of themselves to other people

Yes, but those religious conservatives have successfully spread their own irrational fear of the normal human body and healthy sexuality throughout our society. They've been at this since pretty much the beginning of our country.

Every single human being ever has had a naked body. Making such a big deal about them is stupid and counter-productive. And teenagers having sex has happened since a little time called ALWAYS. Getting bent out of shape about it is also stupid and counter-productive.

So what, you think your daughter getting criminal charges for doing what's going to come natural to her in our repressed society is going to help her? You're nuts if you do. There are plenty of first world nations with access to electronic communication who don't give their teenagers criminal records for acting like teenagers and they are just fine... hell, better than us by many metrics.


Are you using facts and logic against the self-righteous derp of parents?

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-05 12:35:08 PM

Coco LaFemme: High schoolers are obviously different than middle schoolers, but you can't help but question not just the intelligence of the students doing this, but the parenting they're getting at home.


It's not a question of intelligence, it's a question of decision making ability during a time of pretty extreme hormonal activity.  Brains of middle and high school students aren't the same as those of older adults.  It doesn't mean every decision a young person makes is wrong (we trust many of them to drive, to work, to choose colleges, to get credit cards, to vote, to sign up for military service, etc.), but it means that they process things differently than adults do, and don't process things uniformly differently.  Meaning, 13 year olds aren't homogenous in terms of their decision making ability.
 
2014-04-05 12:37:32 PM

undernova: Coco LaFemme: I always get a kick out of the guys on FARK who ask women here to send them pictures of their tits.  I don't know if that signals desperation or an inability to use Google, but damn it....it's funny.

As to the subject of the article however, my sister has had issues with students in her class sending one another inappropriate photos, and she's at her wit's end on what to do about it.  Did I mention she teaches the 7th grade?  High schoolers are obviously different than middle schoolers, but you can't help but question not just the intelligence of the students doing this, but the parenting they're getting at home.

I guarantee you've got something about you that the rest of us would gladly pounce upon to take a few inches off your pedestal.


Hmm, let me see - send strange men on the Internet pictures of my tits, or stay on my pedestal and not get dumped by my boyfriend?  Gee, such a tough, tough choice.  Let me get back to you on that.
 
2014-04-05 12:37:57 PM

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: vygramul: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

markfara: Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?

The problem is that if this isn't a crime, then kids will be able to freely share the CP, and if they can freely share the CP, the server can have the CP, and if the server can legitimately have CP, the administrator can view the CP and no one can do anything about it, and next thing you know, perverts and predators will be viewing the CP.

Inroads against predators have only been made with aggressive attempts at controlling the sources of CP. That is incompatible with allowing minors that much leeway.

I dont see a problem if a pervert finds these selfies. Is there a problem other than its icky?


There's the legal theory that every time someone shares CP, it re-victimizes the victim.  Which I've always thought was a shaky argument at best, since the same theory is never applied to any other crime.  Even in the case of revenge porn, I'm not aware of any law that criminalizes simple possession (although the laws are changing some states due to an increasing number of publicized cases).

There's also the argument that it would encourage the pervert to abuse a child he has access to, but as far as I'm aware there is no clear evidence for this.  Some have also argued that a pervert might seek out and abuse the child depicted in a pornographic image, but I'm not aware of any case where that actually happened.

Finally, there's the legal theory that allowing possession or distribution creates a market for child porn.  Which kind of makes sense, but I've also heard that a market for child porn still exists today even though it's totally illegal, so in that context I'm not sure that the laws are working correctly.
 
2014-04-05 12:44:24 PM
Coco LaFemme:
As to the subject of the article however, my sister has had issues with students in her class sending one another inappropriate photos, and she's at her wit's end on what to do about it.  Did I mention she teaches the 7th grade?  High schoolers are obviously different than middle schoolers, but you can't help but question not just the intelligence of the students doing this, but the parenting they're getting at home.

Did that not sound douchey in your head?
 
2014-04-05 12:44:46 PM
I wish I were a teenager in today's world. Girls seem to be more sexual and giving towards boys. Back in my day, the only time you'd see a girl's cleavage was when you've graduated and they're allowed to wear "adult" clothes.
 
2014-04-05 12:46:03 PM
BiE is not myth! I've gotten it!

Anyway, eip. You know, just in case...

What was this thread about again? Oh yeah. The rules regarding teens and nudity really need to be reviewed and updated for the 20th century. I feel like I can't go a week without hearing about a pair if teens who have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives because they each other a dirty pic.
 
2014-04-05 12:46:16 PM
If I were in this situation as a police officer, I would asked to be excused from said material.  I wouldn't doubt that they keep such evidence on file.  If this is true in anyway, I do not know protocol for such items and these circumstances, and if they keep it, they should be charged with child pornography just as well.

I would not want to see underage girls doing such things, and I feel it is safe to assume that some of these officers feel the same, and hopefully many of you as well. Unfortunately it is my experience there are some that do not have the moral compass to do the same. I fear for these girls, and their family that the police might keep some for their personal files.  I only say this because I know several scumbag officers, however I know some are very good people.  They have shared information with me that I would wish they didn't.  Also 99% of the time, they will tell their spouse, which like most women, will try to humiliate other women and criticize the upbringing of said child.  For example...  I am a proud parent and my kid is on the honor roll stickers.  Translation: I am a superior parent and my child is better than yours.

I propose they should hire a female doctors to investigate pictures of the same gender student and vice versa, as opposed to some local yokel police dude straight out of the academy to have access to such inappropriate materials that might, or not have been intended for private viewing.

It's highly doubtful that these officers have the proper education to be looking at such items.  When you have a degree in Criminal Justice and no psychological or philosophical understanding or foundation of what, or why these children are doing so. I believe they will treat these young kids like criminals other than what the real underlying problem is.  Officers for the most part understand black and white, typically no gray area exists with these officers, if so, this would have not been in the local paper, and we wouldn't be discussing in this forum.  I also am blaming the teachers in this situation as well..  Why?  Because these students will be known by the administration and eventually to the public via to word of mouth.  Perhaps some will be wrongfully accused because they are guilty by association.

Are girls in middle school so naive to believe that guys will not distribute these photos to their friends?  Of course they do they are probably on the computer far more than we are and read about this kind of shiat weekly if not more.  Also they are teenage dudes, of course they will show their friends unless they are in a relationship, one in which will not last.

Desloge Police Chief James "Jebo" Bullock said police and juvenile court officials were still interviewing middle school students

Never Mind the Jebo Bullock.  Here are some young little Sex Pistols for you to look at... Don't be a little piggy and have a blast
 
2014-04-05 12:47:47 PM

sand_in_my_vagoo: BiE is not myth! I've gotten it!

Anyway, eip. You know, just in case...

What was this thread about again? Oh yeah. The rules regarding teens and nudity really need to be reviewed and updated for the 20th century. I feel like I can't go a week without hearing about a pair if teens who have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives because they each other a dirty pic.


Damn it phone!!!

That should be reviewed and updated for the 21st century.

I know, I know, preview before posting.
 
2014-04-05 12:50:02 PM
anfrind: Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: vygramul: mongbiohazard:I dont see a problem if a pervert finds these selfies. Is there a problem other than its icky?

There's the legal theory that every time someone shares CP, it re-victimizes the victim. Which I've always thought was a shaky argument at best, since the same theory is never applied to any other crime. Even in the case of revenge porn, I'm not aware of any law that criminalizes simple possession (although the laws are changing some states due to an increasing number of publicized cases).

There's also the argument that it would encourage the pervert to abuse a child he has access to, but as far as I'm aware there is no clear evidence for this. Some have also argued that a pervert might seek out and abuse the child depicted in a pornographic image, but I'm not aware of any case where that actually happened.

Finally, there's the legal theory that allowing possession or distribution creates a market for child porn. Which kind of makes sense, but I've also heard that a market for child porn still exists today even though it's totally illegal, so in that context I'm not sure that the laws are working correctly.


I think thats the only one I can see harm in. But this shouldnt justify criminalizing these kids.
 
2014-04-05 12:52:59 PM
Contrabulous Flabtraption - I know this may be hard to believe but there are millions of adults who are not religious conservatives who don't want their children sending naked pictures of themselves to other people.

Then tell them not to do it. Or are you saying you cannot control your child? Either you lay down the law and your kids obey it or you turn them in, or you accept that this is going to happen from time to time and it is not in the best interest of anyone, especially your own child, to make this yet another easy way to populate the private prison system, which makes more money with more inmates, and therefore needs more crazy laws to make sure that income is not threatened.

Secret Agent X23 - But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.

And, since there is really nothing we can do about Guy B, let's just make everything is illegal and that way no matter what Guy B does, we can incarcerate him. And Guy A, because he is looking a the same picture... and Guy C, who just happens to have a magazine with a similar picture in it... and Guy D, who is the father of the girl and he did nothing to stop her... and Guy E, who is related to the girl and...

/I farking HATE puritianical bullshiat... especially when it comes to the exposure of skin... amazing how only 50 years ago we boys and girls were skinny-dipping in the river and running around naked in our own backyards. And, for those of you who think something has changed in those 50 years, you are right... what changed is the ability to apply common sense to our society... it seems to have been completely removed...

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-05 01:05:27 PM
Oh, and BIE.

/eip
 
2014-04-05 01:13:51 PM
My cell phone and snapchat account must not work right....I haven't received anything. BIE?
 
2014-04-05 01:25:07 PM
The bigger issue is that these kids are doing this because they aren't getting enough attention at home and are acting out. Throw in the crazy hormones of puberty and the acting out turns sexual. They need help, not criminal records.
 
2014-04-05 01:25:27 PM

Speaker2Animals: I was born too soon.


Yup
 
2014-04-05 01:28:37 PM

Secret Agent X23: SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.

Well, the two are not synonymous.

But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.


Why not both?
 
2014-04-05 01:36:25 PM

Coco LaFemme: undernova: Coco LaFemme: I always get a kick out of the guys on FARK who ask women here to send them pictures of their tits.  I don't know if that signals desperation or an inability to use Google, but damn it....it's funny.

As to the subject of the article however, my sister has had issues with students in her class sending one another inappropriate photos, and she's at her wit's end on what to do about it.  Did I mention she teaches the 7th grade?  High schoolers are obviously different than middle schoolers, but you can't help but question not just the intelligence of the students doing this, but the parenting they're getting at home.

I guarantee you've got something about you that the rest of us would gladly pounce upon to take a few inches off your pedestal.

Hmm, let me see - send strange men on the Internet pictures of my tits, or stay on my pedestal and not get dumped by my boyfriend?  Gee, such a tough, tough choice.  Let me get back to you on that.


See, that's about you choosing whether or not you'd send BIE. It sounds like you wouldn't, and there's nothing wrong with that. But that's not your pedestal - you want to take people to task for playing the BIE game, on Fark of all places. It's a giddy little thrill at a reasonable price, and it's not for you. NBD.

The time you spent typing your snark out here could have been better spent elsewhere, perhaps texting the matter of your moral superiority to your boyfriend, who probably has plenty of BIE - but evidently not from you.
 
2014-04-05 01:39:25 PM

GreenSun: I wish I were a teenager in today's world. Girls seem to be more sexual and giving towards boys. Back in my day, the only time you'd see a girl's cleavage was when you've graduated and they're allowed to wear "adult" clothes.


Great-Great-Grandpa, is that you?
 
2014-04-05 01:42:19 PM

payattention: Secret Agent X23 - But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.

And, since there is really nothing we can do about Guy B, let's just make everything is illegal and that way no matter what Guy B does, we can incarcerate him. And Guy A, because he is looking a the same picture... and Guy C, who just happens to have a magazine with a similar picture in it... and Guy D, who is the father of the girl and he did nothing to stop her... and Guy E, who is related to the girl and...


Well, that wasn't where I was going with that, although it's not clear to me whether you're actually accusing me of going there or not. I wasn't trying to say anything more than exactly what I said.

I don't have a solution to the problem of these pictures getting passed around. Fortunately, nothing depends on me solving it, and no one expects me to. I'm not a legislator or educator or sociologist or police detective. I am a guy with two daughters, and I've tried to raise them to have enough common sense to think that taking naked selfies isn't a particularly good decision.
 
2014-04-05 01:52:12 PM

jayphat: bobothemagnificent: I to must echo:
THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICS!

THIS^


I won't link, but if you really do want to see that kind of thing do a search for "family nudism/naturism" or "(insert age) nude art". I got my first computer and internet connection when I was 17 and wasn't interested in looking at "older" girls at the time. I found out that it isn't considered porn if it isn't sexual, such as art or everyday casual nudity. Of course local laws may very.

/34 and haven't searched for that kind of stuff in years
// Also wound up marrying a woman 15 years older lol
/// And my daughter is about to turn 11 so I'm prob going to be getting really touchy about teenage naked pics pretty soon.
 
2014-04-05 01:53:30 PM

vygramul: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

markfara: Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?

The problem is that if this isn't a crime, then kids will be able to freely share the CP, and if they can freely share the CP, the server can have the CP, and if the server can legitimately have CP, the administrator can view the CP and no one can do anything about it, and next thing you know, perverts and predators will be viewing the CP.

Inroads against predators have only been made with aggressive attempts at controlling the sources of CP. That is incompatible with allowing minors that much leeway.


So in order to save the children, we have to lock them up? I completely agree that child porn should not be created or distributed, and that predators need to be locked away, but treating a teenager who took a picture of themselves as a predator doesn't help. Who did they prey upon? Themselves? Aren't they then the victim? How is it justice to charge and imprison the victim of a crime?

The problem is that the legal system is not equipped to handle the idea of people who commit crimes against themselves. We've ended up with this self-contradictory interpretation where the same person is both the criminal and the victim. If we want a justice system that's worth a damn, we can't do that kind of thing.
 
2014-04-05 01:55:38 PM

Garydrgn: I'm prob going to be getting really touchy about teenage naked pics pretty soon.



Sounds like you need 5 min. to yourself and possibly a tissue?
 
2014-04-05 01:58:31 PM

undernova: The time you spent typing your snark out here could have been better spent elsewhere, perhaps texting the matter of your moral superiority to your boyfriend, who probably has plenty of BIE - but evidently not from you.


You sound desperate.
 
2014-04-05 02:06:32 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

I know this may be hard to believe but there are millions of adults who are not religious conservatives who don't want their children sending naked pictures of themselves to other people


But they also don't want their kids being branded sex offenders and going to prison for the crime of being a dumabass
 
2014-04-05 02:09:43 PM

Zavulon: vygramul: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

markfara: Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?

The problem is that if this isn't a crime, then kids will be able to freely share the CP, and if they can freely share the CP, the server can have the CP, and if the server can legitimately have CP, the administrator can view the CP and no one can do anything about it, and next thing you know, perverts and predators will be viewing the CP.

Inroads against predators have only been made with aggressive attempts at controlling the sources of CP. That is incompatible with allowing minors that much leeway.

So in order to save the children, we have to lock them up? I completely agree that child porn should not be created or distributed, and that predators need to be locked away, but treating a teenager who took a picture of themselves as a predator doesn't help. Who did they prey upon? Themselves? Aren't they then the victim? How is it justice to charge and imprison the victim of a crime?

The problem is that the legal system is not equipped to handle the idea of people who commit crimes against themselves. We've ended up with this self-contradictory interpretation where the same person is both the criminal and the victim. If we want a justice system that's worth a damn, we can't do that kind of thing.


Um... drugs, prostitution, selling your organs, etc.
 
2014-04-05 02:09:45 PM

shtychkn: Garydrgn: I'm prob going to be getting really touchy about teenage naked pics pretty soon.


Sounds like you need 5 min. to yourself and possibly a tissue?


Well, if you really must go there it takes a lot longer than 5 min and a tissue just disintegrates.
 
2014-04-05 02:16:23 PM

MarkEC: Unless there are new BIE senders (or new BIE pics from current senders) I think I have all the BIE that's been sent out on Fark. I wouldn't mind at all being proven wrong though ;-)

/EIP just in case.
//Absolutely love the ones who like reciprocation.


I've never gotten BIE, and I do have EIP.

/ Won't get any.
// Won't mind be proven wrong.
 
2014-04-05 02:18:50 PM

eajc4f: undernova: The time you spent typing your snark out here could have been better spent elsewhere, perhaps texting the matter of your moral superiority to your boyfriend, who probably has plenty of BIE - but evidently not from you.

You sound desperate.


Maybe a little? You sound fat.
 
2014-04-05 02:19:46 PM

varmitydog: One of my daughter's ended up on a webpage Link (borderline NSFW) called "hawtness"


And bookmarked.

Coco LaFemme: CruJones: Teenagers doing teenage stuff shouldn't be a crime, and it's not child porn regardless of what the law says.  Technically a pedophile wouldn't even be interested in these.

No, a pedophile wouldn't, as they are sexually attracted to prepubescent children, but in the eyes of a law, a child is any human being from the age of birth to 18.  ...  Doesn't matter that the girl is old enough to work and drive a car.


If there was just some way to make a law that knows the difference between a child and a mid-teen.

In the mean time, teach your children well.
At ten you should be explaining "No" about selfies. Show them the stories of how pictures came back to ruin people who wanted to have a future plan.
 
2014-04-05 02:21:14 PM
Well if they charge these kids I hope they include the girls who sent the pictures to begin with.
 
2014-04-05 02:25:07 PM
I got SFW BIE. Yay.

Am I supposed to reciprocate? It's the 7th rule, but also says don't sent unwanted...
 
2014-04-05 02:31:24 PM
BIE?  EIP!
 
2014-04-05 02:31:56 PM
Got BIE once, and you know what? Rest of that day was awesome. Started horrible, just became awesome.

There must have been some magic in that BIE I found...
 
2014-04-05 02:32:14 PM

Jekylman: Zavulon: vygramul: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

markfara: Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?

The problem is that if this isn't a crime, then kids will be able to freely share the CP, and if they can freely share the CP, the server can have the CP, and if the server can legitimately have CP, the administrator can view the CP and no one can do anything about it, and next thing you know, perverts and predators will be viewing the CP.

Inroads against predators have only been made with aggressive attempts at controlling the sources of CP. That is incompatible with allowing minors that much leeway.

So in order to save the children, we have to lock them up? I completely agree that child porn should not be created or distributed, and that predators need to be locked away, but treating a teenager who took a picture of themselves as a predator doesn't help. Who did they prey upon? Themselves? Aren't they then the victim? How is it justice to charge and imprison the victim of a crime?

The problem is that the legal system is not equipped to handle the idea of people who commit crimes against themselves. We've ended up with this self-contradictory interpretation where the same person is both the criminal and the victim. If we want a justice system that's worth a damn, we can't do that kind of thing.

Um... drugs, prostitution, selling your organs, etc.


The issue of personal possession and use of drugs has been hashed out enough on Fark, so I'm not going to start that up again :)

As far as prostitution goes, that has the same contradictory interpretation problem. If (and this is a big if) an act of prostitution is fully voluntary on the part of the prostitute, then who have they victimized? Only themselves, if you can even call that victimization. If the prostitute was exploited or forced into prostitution then there's certainly a crime, but it's been committed against the prostitute, not by them.

Selling organs is a different sort of thing, so I don't think it makes a good example. There's always a middle man who is exploiting the donor, sometimes in collusion with the recipient.
 
2014-04-05 02:42:31 PM
First rule if I ever give my kid a cell phone:  physically break the camera.
 
2014-04-05 02:43:44 PM

Zavulon: vygramul: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

markfara: Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?

The problem is that if this isn't a crime, then kids will be able to freely share the CP, and if they can freely share the CP, the server can have the CP, and if the server can legitimately have CP, the administrator can view the CP and no one can do anything about it, and next thing you know, perverts and predators will be viewing the CP.

Inroads against predators have only been made with aggressive attempts at controlling the sources of CP. That is incompatible with allowing minors that much leeway.

So in order to save the children, we have to lock them up? I completely agree that child porn should not be created or distributed, and that predators need to be locked away, but treating a teenager who took a picture of themselves as a predator doesn't help. Who did they prey upon? Themselves? Aren't they then the victim? How is it justice to charge and imprison the victim of a crime?

The problem is that the legal system is not equipped to handle the idea of people who commit crimes against themselves. We've ended up with this self-contradictory interpretation where the same person is both the criminal and the victim. If we want a justice system that's worth a damn, we can't do that kind of thing.


I don't think the person who took the picture of themselves OR the person they sent it to should be prosecuted or criminalized.

However, I think if the recipient then sends it to others, the recipient should be prosecuted for that distribution. I don't think current laws are adequately written to do this very well.

Note: yes, minors SHOULD know better; parents SHOULD be raising and supervising their children better; and a teen sending a picture to their significant other that magically makes its way around the school is the most foreseeable outcome BUT

Why do any of those 3 things change how the situation is handled?
 
2014-04-05 02:43:55 PM

Coco LaFemme: Anyone want to see my spectacular tits?
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[www.wildlifetrusts.org image 445x286]


That's just for you, FARK.  I'd never share them with anyone else.  Pinky promise.


Your tits would be even better if they faced in the same direction.
 
2014-04-05 02:43:55 PM

payattention: Contrabulous Flabtraption - I know this may be hard to believe but there are millions of adults who are not religious conservatives who don't want their children sending naked pictures of themselves to other people.

Then tell them not to do it. Or are you saying you cannot control your child? Either you lay down the law and your kids obey it or you turn them in, or you accept that this is going to happen from time to time and it is not in the best interest of anyone, especially your own child, to make this yet another easy way to populate the private prison system, which makes more money with more inmates, and therefore needs more crazy laws to make sure that income is not threatened.

Secret Agent X23 - But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.

And, since there is really nothing we can do about Guy B, let's just make everything is illegal and that way no matter what Guy B does, we can incarcerate him. And Guy A, because he is looking a the same picture... and Guy C, who just happens to have a magazine with a similar picture in it... and Guy D, who is the father of the girl and he did nothing to stop her... and Guy E, who is related to the girl and...

/I farking HATE puritianical bullshiat... especially when it comes to the exposure of skin... amazing how only 50 years ago we boys and girls were skinny-dipping in the river and running around naked in our own backyards. And, for those of you who think something has changed in those 50 years, you are right... what changed is the ability to apply common sense to our society... it seems to have been completely removed...


So if you tell your kids something g, they magically won't make the wrong choice later?

You should blatheringly stupid.
 
2014-04-05 02:44:55 PM

Dr Jack Badofsky: First rule if I ever give my kid a cell phone:  physically break the camera.


Oh, and BIE.  You're safe with me...
 
2014-04-05 02:48:26 PM

Dr Jack Badofsky: Dr Jack Badofsky: First rule if I ever give my kid a cell phone:  physically break the camera.

Oh, and BIE.  You're safe with me...


Or, EIP.  Whatever.  Dammit.
 
2014-04-05 02:54:12 PM
Whomever the generous person was, thank you! :)
 
2014-04-05 02:58:19 PM

Dr Jack Badofsky: First rule if I ever give my kid a cell phone:  physically break the camera.


Better yet, get them something like the Samsung S125g. No camera or browser.
 
2014-04-05 03:01:24 PM

mariner314: I got SFW BIE. Yay.

Am I supposed to reciprocate? It's the 7th rule, but also says don't sent unwanted...


So did I!
 
2014-04-05 03:03:28 PM
I kinda liked the old days when BIE was a thing.

Yes, its a bit silly given the preponderance of boobs on the internet.  But its still nice to get a little surprise in the email.
 
2014-04-05 03:05:12 PM

VladTheEmailer: I kinda liked the old days when BIE was a thing.

Yes, its a bit silly given the preponderance of boobs on the internet.  But its still nice to get a little surprise in the email.


It sure is, and I sure did!  TYVM whomever you are...
 
2014-04-05 03:11:09 PM

Zavulon: Jekylman: Zavulon: 
The problem is that the legal system is not equipped to handle the idea of people who commit crimes against themselves. We've ended up with this self-contradictory interpretation where the same person is both the criminal and the victim. If we want a justice system that's worth a damn, we can't do that kind of thing.

Um... drugs, prostitution, selling your organs, etc.

The issue of personal possession and use of drugs has been hashed out enough on Fark, so I'm not going to start that up again :)

As far as prostitution goes, that has the same contradictory interpretation problem. If (and this is a big if) an act of prostitution is fully voluntary on the part of the prostitute, then who have they victimized? Only themselves, if you can even call that victimization. If the prostitute was exploited or forced into prostitution then there's certainly a crime, but it's been committed against the prostitute, not by them.

Selling organs is a different sort of thing, so I don't think it makes a good example. There's always a middle man who is exploiting the donor, sometimes in collusion with the recipient.


I can't argue these on the merits, but I will say that our legal system seems perfectly well suited to punishing people for committing crimes against themselves.
 
2014-04-05 03:13:53 PM

VladTheEmailer: Coco LaFemme: Anyone want to see my spectacular tits?
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[www.wildlifetrusts.org image 445x286]


That's just for you, FARK.  I'd never share them with anyone else.  Pinky promise.

Your tits would be even better if they faced in the same direction.


And one seems to be bigger than the other.
 
2014-04-05 03:16:56 PM

Dr Jack Badofsky: VladTheEmailer: Coco LaFemme: Anyone want to see my spectacular tits?
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[www.wildlifetrusts.org image 445x286]


That's just for you, FARK.  I'd never share them with anyone else.  Pinky promise.

Your tits would be even better if they faced in the same direction.

And one seems to be bigger than the other.


I think both conditions are indicators of a heightened risk for teh bewbie cancer.

/nice tits, tho
 
2014-04-05 03:29:09 PM

HeartlineTwist: Zavulon: vygramul: mongbiohazard: So farking stupid. Charging kids with criminal offenses for pictures of each other... I wonder how long before we grow up enough as a society to acknowledge how stupid this is. It is depressing how much we still are terrified of the perfectly normal human body and sexuality. Farking religious conservatives.

markfara: Why can't we, as a nation, deal with things like child pornography without completely going off the deep end?

The problem is that if this isn't a crime, then kids will be able to freely share the CP, and if they can freely share the CP, the server can have the CP, and if the server can legitimately have CP, the administrator can view the CP and no one can do anything about it, and next thing you know, perverts and predators will be viewing the CP.

Inroads against predators have only been made with aggressive attempts at controlling the sources of CP. That is incompatible with allowing minors that much leeway.

So in order to save the children, we have to lock them up? I completely agree that child porn should not be created or distributed, and that predators need to be locked away, but treating a teenager who took a picture of themselves as a predator doesn't help. Who did they prey upon? Themselves? Aren't they then the victim? How is it justice to charge and imprison the victim of a crime?

The problem is that the legal system is not equipped to handle the idea of people who commit crimes against themselves. We've ended up with this self-contradictory interpretation where the same person is both the criminal and the victim. If we want a justice system that's worth a damn, we can't do that kind of thing.

I don't think the person who took the picture of themselves OR the person they sent it to should be prosecuted or criminalized.

However, I think if the recipient then sends it to others, the recipient should be prosecuted for that distribution. I don't think current laws are adequately written to do this very well.

Note: yes, minors SHOULD know better; parents SHOULD be raising and supervising their children better; and a teen sending a picture to their significant other that magically makes its way around the school is the most foreseeable outcome BUT

Why do any of those 3 things change how the situation is handled?


I think we're in agreement here. Third parties that keep and/or distribute pornographic pictures of minors are clearly committing a crime against the subject of said picture.
 
2014-04-05 03:34:40 PM
My Boobies ever (honest) after lurking for a decade!

Hoping a wonderful Farkette will reward me with BIE. EIP, of course.

/ slashie
// am I doing this right?
 
2014-04-05 03:34:58 PM

Jekylman: Zavulon: Jekylman: Zavulon: 
The problem is that the legal system is not equipped to handle the idea of people who commit crimes against themselves. We've ended up with this self-contradictory interpretation where the same person is both the criminal and the victim. If we want a justice system that's worth a damn, we can't do that kind of thing.

Um... drugs, prostitution, selling your organs, etc.

The issue of personal possession and use of drugs has been hashed out enough on Fark, so I'm not going to start that up again :)

As far as prostitution goes, that has the same contradictory interpretation problem. If (and this is a big if) an act of prostitution is fully voluntary on the part of the prostitute, then who have they victimized? Only themselves, if you can even call that victimization. If the prostitute was exploited or forced into prostitution then there's certainly a crime, but it's been committed against the prostitute, not by them.

Selling organs is a different sort of thing, so I don't think it makes a good example. There's always a middle man who is exploiting the donor, sometimes in collusion with the recipient.

I can't argue these on the merits, but I will say that our legal system seems perfectly well suited to punishing people for committing crimes against themselves.


From a pragmatic standpoint you're correct. What I should have said is that the system is not equipped to handle it in an internally consistent manner. All it does right now is ignore the hard questions and exploit dumb kids for easy convictions.
 
2014-04-05 03:36:42 PM

Bagpiper's Underwear: My Boobies ever (honest) after lurking for a decade!

Hoping a wonderful Farkette will reward me with BIE. EIP, of course.

/ slashie
// am I doing this right?


Autocorrect fail! Should have said, "My Boobies ever..."

/apparently not doing this right
//don't hate me...I'm new here
 
2014-04-05 03:37:52 PM

Bagpiper's Underwear: Bagpiper's Underwear: My Boobies ever (honest) after lurking for a decade!

Hoping a wonderful Farkette will reward me with BIE. EIP, of course.

/ slashie
// am I doing this right?

Autocorrect fail! Should have said, "My Boobies ever..."

/apparently not doing this right
//don't hate me...I'm new here


I give up!
 
2014-04-05 03:58:34 PM

Secret Agent X23: SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.

Well, the two are not synonymous.

But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.


What people fap to should not connote what pornography is. If we did that then almost all pictures could be considered porn. There are whole sites dedicated to people who get off on pictures of clothed people -- by that I mean they upload literal pictures of clothed people which they have gotten off on. Sadly, what has been seen can not be unseen. What we need is a set standard where pornography is clearly defined and trash the local community standards BS. At least that way we would have some legal consistency.

Also, if you're going to charge a kids as adults for a picture of themselves then you can't consider the pictures child porn anymore; you have basically claimed they are an adult under the law, thus the picture is of one now of a legal adult.
 
2014-04-05 04:03:50 PM

Bagpiper's Underwear: Bagpiper's Underwear: Bagpiper's Underwear: My Boobies ever (honest) after lurking for a decade!

Hoping a wonderful Farkette will reward me with BIE. EIP, of course.

/ slashie
// am I doing this right?

Autocorrect fail! Should have said, "My Boobies ever..."

/apparently not doing this right
//don't hate me...I'm new here

I give up!


Behold the power of the Fark filter.
 
2014-04-05 04:06:18 PM
I sent a few 35mm pics of girlfriends through the one hour photo hut when I was in high school, never got arrested or charged with child porn.

America's panties are really in a bunch these days.
 
2014-04-05 04:12:54 PM
BIE is a myth. They don't exist. I've been here over 11 years but I've never received any requested BIE w/EIP. :-(

My birthday was last Wednesday the 2nd and Fark was nice enough to put a red banner across the top wishing me a happy birthday but it would be really nice if I got some BIE.

Here's a challenge to all legal-aged Farkettes. I say BIE Is a myth. Prove me wrong. EIP.
 
2014-04-05 04:27:37 PM
I got BIE once and it really made my day.
EIP
 
2014-04-05 04:38:33 PM

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: anfrind: Finally, there's the legal theory that allowing possession or distribution creates a market for child porn. Which kind of makes sense, but I've also heard that a market for child porn still exists today even though it's totally illegal, so in that context I'm not sure that the laws are working correctly.

I think thats the only one I can see harm in. But this shouldnt justify criminalizing these kids.


If I may play devil's advocate for a moment: What if we took the exact opposite approach, and made it both perfectly legal and socially acceptable* for teens to make and distribute pornographic selfies?  Basically, try to flood the "market" so that the value of a random teenager's naughty pictures drops to practically zero.  With any luck, the criminals who currently make "professional" child porn would then go bankrupt.

* at least inasmuch as it is already socially acceptable for adults
 
2014-04-05 04:40:28 PM

Bagpiper's Underwear: Bagpiper's Underwear: Bagpiper's Underwear: My Boobies ever (honest) after lurking for a decade!

Hoping a wonderful Farkette will reward me with BIE. EIP, of course.

/ slashie
// am I doing this right?

Autocorrect fail! Should have said, "My Boobies ever..."

/apparently not doing this right
//don't hate me...I'm new here

I give up!


You gave me a LOL on this lazy sat afternoon.
 
2014-04-05 04:48:13 PM

ShatteredMinds: Secret Agent X23: SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.

Well, the two are not synonymous.

But the problem is, Guy A is going to look at a picture and consider how the girl is posed, the lighting, the contrast and whatnot. Meanwhile, next door, Guy B happens by coincidence to look at the same picture, and he immediately yanks his pants down and goes to work on himself like one of those machines at the hardware store that shake up paint cans.

What people fap to should not connote what pornography is. If we did that then almost all pictures could be considered porn. There are whole sites dedicated to people who get off on pictures of clothed people -- by that I mean they upload literal pictures of clothed people which they have gotten off on. Sadly, what has been seen can not be unseen. What we need is a set standard where pornography is clearly defined and trash the local community standards BS. At least that way we would have some legal consistency.


Well, okay, but the dictionary definition of pornography is that it's material intended to cause sexual arousal. So if no one's fapping to it, I'm not sure what reason there would be to call it porn--or if you do, it seems it would be failed porn.

If you want to ditch that idea altogether and form a new basis of what porn is considered to be, fine. But in that case, what sort of idea to you start with?
 
2014-04-05 04:50:17 PM
Nudity doesn't make pornography, context does.
 
2014-04-05 04:54:34 PM
The day I received BIE for the first time was a great day.

/EIP
 
2014-04-05 05:18:07 PM
This is beyond stupid.

Why can't we have harsh penalties for adults that victimize children without creating high school witch hunts across the country?

High school students are sexually active and make poor decisions. That's a well known fact of life. How is ruining kid's lives by putting them on a sex offender registry going to benefit anybody?
 
2014-04-05 05:21:24 PM

Bagpiper's Underwear: Bagpiper's Underwear: Bagpiper's Underwear: My Boobies ever (honest) after lurking for a decade!

Hoping a wonderful Farkette will reward me with BIE. EIP, of course.

/ slashie
// am I doing this right?

Autocorrect fail! Should have said, "My Boobies ever..."

/apparently not doing this right
//don't hate me...I'm new here

I give up!


img.fark.net
 
2014-04-05 05:48:58 PM

LeroyB: BIE is a myth. They don't exist. I've been here over 11 years but I've never received any requested BIE w/EIP. :-(

My birthday was last Wednesday the 2nd and Fark was nice enough to put a red banner across the top wishing me a happy birthday but it would be really nice if I got some BIE.

Here's a challenge to all legal-aged Farkettes. I say BIE Is a myth. Prove me wrong. EIP.


Oh my. BIE Fairies do exist.  Thank you. :-)
 
2014-04-05 06:01:22 PM

Bagpiper's Underwear: Bagpiper's Underwear: Bagpiper's Underwear: My Boobies ever (honest) after lurking for a decade!

Hoping a wonderful Farkette will reward me with BIE. EIP, of course.

/ slashie
// am I doing this right?

Autocorrect fail! Should have said, "My Boobies ever..."

/apparently not doing this right
//don't hate me...I'm new here

I give up!


Read this
 
FNG [TotalFark]
2014-04-05 06:21:16 PM
Because it's Caturday :)

/eip svp
 
2014-04-05 06:25:11 PM
Only one Farkette in the entire thread contributes to BIE. What has Fark become?
 
2014-04-05 06:29:37 PM

Secret Agent X23: Well, okay, but the dictionary definition of pornography is that it's material intended to cause sexual arousal. So if no one's fapping to it, I'm not sure what reason there would be to call it porn--or if you do, it seems it would be failed porn.

If you want to ditch that idea altogether and form a new basis of what porn is considered to be, fine. But in that case, what sort of idea to you start with?


Well, first things first, I think that pornography should be covered under the First Amendment, and that it's not is just the members of the high court trying to push their moralistic BS onto the rest of us. It's a puritanical leftover that our society would be better off without. Of course I believe that exploiting children should be illegal, but that's a separate issue and could be covered without making it revolve around the sexual/nudity issues. But, if I did have to define pornography I would call it explicit sexual material that has no provable artistic, moral, or social value.

America's obsession with sex, sexuality, and nudity is a problem. What we need is to normalize it. Remove the puritanical and hyper sensitivity our society heaps onto those things. Casual nudity in TV shows, commercials, magazines, and so on would help us get over our biases. Once we take a healthier attitude towards nudity we can then truly look at what the real problems are. Its funny that we allow kids to watch violence all day every day and expect it to have little effect and in no way alter the way they see it. But, see one boob or a penis and they'll automatically turn into corrupt rapey immoral sex monsters. We've skewed our views so bad that we censor things for adults just in case a kid might see it and somehow tarnish them for life.

If we had half a brain we would force the government to stop censoring what we can or can't see and put the controls back in the hands of the people. It would be simple to embed a digital signal that TVs could interpret and block content that the viewer doesn't want displayed or heard. The TV itself would create censor bars and beep out foul language as the owner wished with no need for censors or regulators to "protect" us from "harmful" content. We've just given our rights, our ability to think, and any concept of personal responsibility up in the hopes that the government will do/be those things for us. I'm not anti-government but I do think that moralizing isn't a job I want the government doing. Hell, gay marriage, abortion, and many other things wouldn't be a problem if the government would just get out of the moralization business.

/Sorry, just putting some thoughts down
//was longer and more coherent the first time but browser crashed and had to start over
///third slashes for the charm
 
2014-04-05 06:38:55 PM

LeroyB: LeroyB: BIE is a myth. They don't exist. I've been here over 11 years but I've never received any requested BIE w/EIP. :-(

My birthday was last Wednesday the 2nd and Fark was nice enough to put a red banner across the top wishing me a happy birthday but it would be really nice if I got some BIE.

Here's a challenge to all legal-aged Farkettes. I say BIE Is a myth. Prove me wrong. EIP.

Oh my. BIE Fairies do exist.  Thank you. :-)


But did you follow rule #7?
 
2014-04-05 06:42:38 PM
BIE?  EIP.
/late to the party
//nothing to add to the discussion =(
 
2014-04-05 06:50:45 PM
ShatteredMinds:
...stuff, snipped because it's right above this...

I'm going to agree with you all down the line, with this difference: I would add (and I think you implied this, but I'd state it explicitly) that I don't think something should have to have "provable artistic, moral, or social value" in order to avoid censorship or legal issues. We don't apply that standard to any other form of entertainment, or to any other genre, so why impose it on sexual content?
 
2014-04-05 06:51:00 PM

armor helix: This is beyond stupid.

Why can't we have harsh penalties for adults that victimize children without creating high school witch hunts across the country?

High school students are sexually active and make poor decisions. That's a well known fact of life. How is ruining kid's lives by putting them on a sex offender registry going to benefit anybody?


Cops have quotas to meet and prosecutors need to be tough on crime to get reelected.

Everyone else is just little people, and these kids won't be voting with a felony conviction, so it's pretty much a win for the only people that count.
 
2014-04-05 06:54:18 PM

mariner314: LeroyB: LeroyB: BIE is a myth. They don't exist. I've been here over 11 years but I've never received any requested BIE w/EIP. :-(

My birthday was last Wednesday the 2nd and Fark was nice enough to put a red banner across the top wishing me a happy birthday but it would be really nice if I got some BIE.

Here's a challenge to all legal-aged Farkettes. I say BIE Is a myth. Prove me wrong. EIP.

Oh my. BIE Fairies do exist.  Thank you. :-)

But did you follow rule #7?


I guess I'm ready, but there's rule #3
 
2014-04-05 06:58:56 PM

LeroyB: mariner314: LeroyB: LeroyB: BIE is a myth. They don't exist. I've been here over 11 years but I've never received any requested BIE w/EIP. :-(

My birthday was last Wednesday the 2nd and Fark was nice enough to put a red banner across the top wishing me a happy birthday but it would be really nice if I got some BIE.

Here's a challenge to all legal-aged Farkettes. I say BIE Is a myth. Prove me wrong. EIP.

Oh my. BIE Fairies do exist.  Thank you. :-)

But did you follow rule #7?

I guess I'm ready, but there's rule #3


My understanding is you follow rule 3 normally. But if BIE occurs 7 is expected.

However I tend to ask if they want reciprocation.
 
2014-04-05 06:59:02 PM

HeartlineTwist: I don't think the person who took the picture of themselves OR the person they sent it to should be prosecuted or criminalized.

However, I think if the recipient then sends it to others, the recipient should be prosecuted for that distribution. I don't think current laws are adequately written to do this very well.

Note: yes, minors SHOULD know better; parents SHOULD be raising and supervising their children better; and a teen sending a picture to their significant other that magically makes its way around the school is the most foreseeable outcome BUT

Why do any of those 3 things change how the situation is handled?


All the law can prove reliably is who created it. So should not the producer of "child porn" be the one prosecuted? Also, you assume that they weren't meant to share or that consent wasn't given, what if it was? There are some who I don't know post nude pics because they have no problem with being nude or *gasp* are proud of their bodies and aren't ashamed of them. How about we as a society get over our pathological fear of nudity and sexuality and grow up some. All your suggestion does is create criminals who may or may not have had permission to share those pics and who may or may not know that the subject didn't want those images shared. Your forcing the law to assume things they have no real proof about. Crime by association.

Lets also think about hacking, sharing phones, and all kinds of possibilities like apps that auto-upload or distribute that would make criminals of absolutely innocent teens that had no idea about what they were receiving before it appeared on their phones.

Lastly, THESE ARE FREAKING KIDS!! Kids don't think they react, they do stupid without knowing or thinking about the consequences. They have undeveloped brains and are full of hormones and have to deal with peer pressured that most of us can no longer understand or relate to because we haven't been kids in a long long time. As times change so do the stupid things that kids do and what they think of as normal and acceptable. Branding kids with legal repercussions for the rest of their lives is just stupid and we ADULTS should know that and stop acting like kids are just little adults. At one point we were smart enough to let parents, teachers, and communities deal with these problems instead of ruining kids futures. Of course there are exceptions, and we should not let truly illegal activities get swept under the rug by allowing parents and communities deal with it; and by deal with it I mean ignore, deny, and harass the actual victims. But, on issues like selfies I think the law just becomes part of the problem instead of a solution.
 
2014-04-05 07:01:24 PM

Secret Agent X23: I'm going to agree with you all down the line, with this difference: I would add (and I think you implied this, but I'd state it explicitly) that I don't think something should have to have "provable artistic, moral, or social value" in order to avoid censorship or legal issues. We don't apply that standard to any other form of entertainment, or to any other genre, so why impose it on sexual content?


By provable I meant that the court had to prove, as in innocent until proven guilty. So, yes, we agree.
 
2014-04-05 08:24:30 PM

RodneyToady: SpdrJay: Nudity is not pornography.
 Drawings of nudity can be child pornography.  (Link is SFW)


This is interesting....

"any kind of visual depiction of sexually explicit conduct involving a minor  "

Its my humble opinion that simply standing there naked.. isn't in an of itself sexually explicit conduct.
conversely... rubbing one out for example.. even fully clothed with no exposure... probably is.

I have a feeling I'm wrong though from a cops standpoint. "ITS ALL BAD ! BAD ! BAD!   "
 
2014-04-05 10:24:42 PM
I know the rules and follow them including reciprocation if requested.
eip for bie
I think there should be a punishment for juveniles that does not include sex offender status that will follow them into adulthood.
 
2014-04-05 11:31:22 PM
Is this still going?

/EIP just in case
//I think...
 
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