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(Salon)   The rise in Americans who claim no religious affiliation coincides with the rise of the Internet, global warming, and pirates   (salon.com ) divider line 170
    More: Interesting, Americans, religions and spiritual traditions, College of Engineering, General Social Survey, religiosity, University of Chicago  
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2834 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Apr 2014 at 8:28 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-05 05:10:56 AM  

Boojum2k: This is a good point. What do you think of CS Lewis's "Liar, lunatic, or Lord" argument?


You're forgetting the more probable fourth option: Legend.

Jesus never did any of the things people say he did.
 
2014-04-05 08:08:56 AM  

Truther: doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.

Where did you live?

Alabama?


Anywhere in the South would elicit that response today. After a lifetime of living as a devout Christian, the Church's attitude toward gays, women, etc. compelled me to dig deeper into the Bible. Long story short, I'm now an atheist. Yet only my husband and children know this. To let it be known would mean devastating family and would be detrimental to my and my husband's businesses. I don't feel the need to 'come out of the closet' as some atheists urge. My not publicly acknowledging my non-belief affects me in no way. I have no need to assert my right to (non) religious freedom or whatever. It's not like I can't be with the one I love or sit in the front of a bus. I just get to sleep in on Sundays and check my eye-rolling when I'm assured I'm being prayed for during my absence.
 
2014-04-05 10:05:42 AM  

MutantMotherMouse: Anywhere in the South would elicit that response today. After a lifetime of living as a devout Christian, the Church's attitude toward gays, women, etc. compelled me to dig deeper into the Bible. Long story short, I'm now an atheist. Yet only my husband and children know this. To let it be known would mean devastating family and would be detrimental to my and my husband's businesses. I don't feel the need to 'come out of the closet' as some atheists urge. My not publicly acknowledging my non-belief affects me in no way. I have no need to assert my right to (non) religious freedom or whatever. It's not like I can't be with the one I love or sit in the front of a bus. I just get to sleep in on Sundays and check my eye-rolling when I'm assured I'm being prayed for during my absence.


I'd wager a good number of those that DO attend on Sunday are only there for the same reasons you don't feel safe "coming out" as a nonbeliever.  Also you forgot to mention funerals... funerals are barely tolerable in the South, especially when you have reason to know that the deceased was a silent non-believer.
 
2014-04-05 10:13:57 AM  

weltallica: The only way to fight madness is with wisdom,


A return of optimus prime reference in a religious thread?

This is what the internet is meant to be.
 
2014-04-05 10:50:55 AM  
The interwebs have nothing to do with it, at least in my case.  I realized I was an atheist when I was around 8 years old (which was in 1975).  The internet was not even a twinkle in Al Gore's eye back then.
 
2014-04-05 11:18:12 AM  
It's really a no-brainer. Atheism has found purchase the same way furries have. Things people once felt compelled to hide and feel ashamed of now have active internet communities to support their adherents.
 
2014-04-05 12:12:27 PM  

Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine?

Nope. It's a "I can't prove there isn't a God (see: proving a negative), but I don't believe there is one anyway, based on the evidence I have seen." No more than that.


Actually... no. Know what else is considered Agnostic (according to Dictionary.com)? Pagans. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

Definition of Agnostic atheism here

Agnostic theism
 
2014-04-05 12:15:35 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine?

Nope. It's a "I can't prove there isn't a God (see: proving a negative), but I don't believe there is one anyway, based on the evidence I have seen." No more than that.

Actually... no. Know what else is considered Agnostic (according to Dictionary.com)? Pagans. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

Definition of Agnostic atheism here

Agnostic theism


You're not even the first to say I'm wrong somehow, then post a link to a definition of agnostic atheism semantically equal to what I've already said.
 
2014-04-05 01:24:33 PM  

Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine?

Nope. It's a "I can't prove there isn't a God (see: proving a negative), but I don't believe there is one anyway, based on the evidence I have seen." No more than that.

Actually... no. Know what else is considered Agnostic (according to Dictionary.com)? Pagans. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

Definition of Agnostic atheism here

Agnostic theism

You're not even the first to say I'm wrong somehow, then post a link to a definition of agnostic atheism semantically equal to what I've already said.


But the question lies: Would an alien be a god?
 
2014-04-05 01:32:11 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Would an alien be a god?


Unlikely. They would have evolved out of the same universal constants we have, which as we see on Earth can hold a lot of variety, not even getting into possibilities for different chemical basis or extreme environments, most all of which if they could produce life would produce it with far more limitations than we have. Even if they were equal to us, we understand enough of the universe that even if their technology was sufficiently advanced we would recognize it as such and not some supernatural force.
So no, to a high degree of probability they would not be even possibly considered as gods.
 
2014-04-05 01:40:23 PM  
"Why, that's the same thing the other 999 sects say about *you*. "

Good, then you've been comparing then. That way you know the difference between what Christ actually taught and how the other 998 or however many sects may be wrong. Good for you!
 
2014-04-05 01:50:18 PM  

Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Would an alien be a god?

Unlikely. They would have evolved out of the same universal constants we have, which as we see on Earth can hold a lot of variety, not even getting into possibilities for different chemical basis or extreme environments, most all of which if they could produce life would produce it with far more limitations than we have. Even if they were equal to us, we understand enough of the universe that even if their technology was sufficiently advanced we would recognize it as such and not some supernatural force.
So no, to a high degree of probability they would not be even possibly considered as gods.


So, much like there are Buddhists that are atheists, there can be agnostic atheists that believe aliens created us (through accident or on purpose). Not trying to be funny, but they would be a superior entity, yet not a god.
 
2014-04-05 01:56:56 PM  

People_are_Idiots: there can be agnostic atheists that believe aliens created us


Um, no. Agnostic atheist requires evidence for any kind of additional explanation beyond what we have already evidence for. "Maybe aliens" is an unsupported conjecture, so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God.
Conjecturing it would still be within the bounds, I like SF. Long-time Traveller player, but I don't believe any real-life Yaskoydray exists.

/Read The Salvation War online, alternate history/SF-Fantasy. .  atheism gets proven wrong in the worst possible way, but it still comes out pretty good as fun fiction.
 
2014-04-05 02:03:19 PM  

People_are_Idiots: [quote just to link back to you].


Boojum2k: so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God.

Slight correction, a bog standard gnostic atheist "knows" there is no God, while the one believing in ancient aliens would claim such similar knowledge. The vast vast majority of gnostic atheists are basically what you would just call an atheist, without any such belief in alien intervention.
 
2014-04-05 02:55:09 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine?

Nope. It's a "I can't prove there isn't a God (see: proving a negative), but I don't believe there is one anyway, based on the evidence I have seen." No more than that.

Actually... no. Know what else is considered Agnostic (according to Dictionary.com)? Pagans. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

Definition of Agnostic atheism here

Agnostic theism

You're not even the first to say I'm wrong somehow, then post a link to a definition of agnostic atheism semantically equal to what I've already said.

But the question lies: Would an alien be a god?


Only to the ancients who were easy to manipulate.
 
2014-04-05 04:08:17 PM  
There's certainly plenty of stuff on the Internet to make someone lose his faith in God and man. Fanfiction.net alone has probably driven several small faiths to extinction.
 
2014-04-06 02:13:17 AM  

Boojum2k: so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God


Uhm... is this the Gnostic you mean?

If so, what you said is an oxymoron.
 
2014-04-06 03:01:04 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Uhm... is this the Gnostic you mean?


No. Refer to the foursquare that was referenced earlier in the thread.
 
2014-04-06 03:12:22 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God

Uhm... is this the Gnostic you mean?

If so, what you said is an oxymoron.


Gnostic with a capital G is different from gnostic with a lower case G. When it's capitalized it's referring to Gnostic religions, usually Greek or Coptic Gnostic, rarely non-western Gnostic faiths.

A gnostic atheist is usually apodiectic. They know god does not exist, they believe that reason can prove that god does not exist, and they're euphoric as all fark.

Most atheists are non-apodiectic agnostic atheists. Most people who self identify as Capital-Letter-A Agnostic are, if pressed non-apodiectic agnostic atheists or apathesits (believe that god cannot be known, or proven thus even considering having a belief system is futile and a waste of time).
 
2014-04-06 03:29:19 AM  

Ghastly: People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God

Uhm... is this the Gnostic you mean?

If so, what you said is an oxymoron.

Gnostic with a capital G is different from gnostic with a lower case G. When it's capitalized it's referring to Gnostic religions, usually Greek or Coptic Gnostic, rarely non-western Gnostic faiths.

A gnostic atheist is usually apodiectic. They know god does not exist, they believe that reason can prove that god does not exist, and they're euphoric as all fark.

Most atheists are non-apodiectic agnostic atheists. Most people who self identify as Capital-Letter-A Agnostic are, if pressed non-apodiectic agnostic atheists or apathesits (believe that god cannot be known, or proven thus even considering having a belief system is futile and a waste of time).


Thank you very much!

No snark, I mean that.
 
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