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(Salon)   The rise in Americans who claim no religious affiliation coincides with the rise of the Internet, global warming, and pirates   (salon.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Americans, religions and spiritual traditions, College of Engineering, General Social Survey, religiosity, University of Chicago  
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2845 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Apr 2014 at 8:28 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



170 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-04 04:48:55 PM  
well, knowledge is an antidote to superstition. and the internet is the greatest doorway to knowledge ever created, so maybe yeah. also correlation ≠ causation, so who knows?
 
2014-04-04 07:53:26 PM  
There's also a pretty good correlation between that and the amount of HFCS in the average person's diet.  I'm not saying the HFCS is the work of the devil and is driving the holy spirit out of our bodies, I'm just asking questions.
 
2014-04-04 08:00:41 PM  

FlashHarry: well, knowledge is an antidote to superstition. and the internet is the greatest doorway to knowledge ever created, so maybe yeah. also correlation ≠ causation, so who knows?


Yeah. I'm sure all those kittens and anti-vax articles have really enlightened us all.
 
2014-04-04 08:30:14 PM  

FlashHarry: well, knowledge is an antidote to superstition. and the internet is the greatest doorway to knowledge ever created, so maybe yeah. also correlation ≠ causation, so who knows?


Pretty much
 
2014-04-04 08:32:41 PM  
And education.
 
2014-04-04 08:33:28 PM  
I'm going to assume that " religious affiliation" and religious beliefs are two different things.
 
2014-04-04 08:34:15 PM  
I think there is a certain type of Christianity that's being practiced in the US that has nothing to do with Christianity and may actually end up destroying it.

And that would actually be a bad thing.
 
2014-04-04 08:35:24 PM  
Praise the FSM and pass the grated parmesano!

Let us now sing Hymn 363 from your hymnals. Verses one and two only.

Hymn 363, page 472
"On Top of Spaghetti"
Traditional:  "On Top of Old Smokey".
On Top of Spaghetti


On top of spaghetti,
All covered with cheese,
I lost my poor meatball,
When somebody sneezed.

It rolled off the table,
And on to the floor,
And then my poor meatball,
Rolled out of the door.

It rolled in the garden,
And under a bush,
And then my poor meatball,
Was nothing but mush.

The mush was as tasty
As tasty could be,
And then the next summer,
It grew into a tree.

The tree was all covered,
All covered with moss,
And on it grew meatballs,
And tomato sauce.

So if you eat spaghetti,
All covered with cheese,
Hold on to your meatball,
Whenever you sneeze.
 
2014-04-04 08:35:25 PM  
atheism, open racism, acceptance of the gheys, cats, free pornography, and hp lovecraft have all seem to have had a field day since the internet really hit the ground running in the mid-90s

I'm okay with five out of six.
 
2014-04-04 08:35:30 PM  

MFAWG: I think there is a certain type of Christianity that's being practiced in the US that has nothing to do with Christianity and may actually end up destroying it.

And that would actually be a bad thing.


I think in a limited way you may be right.
 
2014-04-04 08:35:31 PM  
Also, ice cream sales increase/decrease at roughly the same time as murder
 
2014-04-04 08:35:39 PM  
critical thinking was the real first sin.
 
2014-04-04 08:35:43 PM  
You mean the US is catching up with the test of the modern world?
 
2014-04-04 08:36:26 PM  

Omahawg: atheism, open racism, acceptance of the gheys, cats, free pornography, and hp lovecraft have all seem to have had a field day since the internet really hit the ground running in the mid-90s

I'm okay with five out of six.


I agree. The cats thing needs to stop.
 
2014-04-04 08:36:33 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-04 08:37:22 PM  

shtychkn: You mean the US is catching up with the test of the modern world?


Will there be a rest?
 
2014-04-04 08:37:25 PM  
It gives courage to those from religious families who have doubts to come out with their doubts. Access to knowledge scares the gate keepers.
 
2014-04-04 08:38:19 PM  

shtychkn: Omahawg: atheism, open racism, acceptance of the gheys, cats, free pornography, and hp lovecraft have all seem to have had a field day since the internet really hit the ground running in the mid-90s

I'm okay with five out of six.

I agree. The cats thing needs to stop.


No, Lovecraft is insufferable, I can take or leave cats.
 
2014-04-04 08:39:44 PM  
As always, the militants atheists are here to ugly up/hate up the conversation.

Bye
 
2014-04-04 08:39:53 PM  
Lack of religious belief causes global warming. Got it.
 
2014-04-04 08:40:12 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: There's also a pretty good correlation between that and the amount of HFCS in the average person's diet.  I'm not saying the HFCS is the work of the devil and is driving the holy spirit out of our bodies, I'm just asking questions.



I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.  Prior to the major soft drink companies using HFCS in their products the use of crack and meth were far lower than they are now.  Inquiring minds want to know
 
2014-04-04 08:40:47 PM  

CruJones: Lovecraft is insufferable


img.fark.net

Cthulhu frowns on your shenanigans.
 
2014-04-04 08:42:29 PM  

vonster: As always, the militants atheists are here to ugly up/hate up the conversation.

Bye


We won't miss you.
 
2014-04-04 08:43:13 PM  
As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.
 
2014-04-04 08:44:14 PM  

vonster: MFAWG: I think there is a certain type of Christianity that's being practiced in the US that has nothing to do with Christianity and may actually end up destroying it.

And that would actually be a bad thing.

I think in a limited way you may be right.


There was a time (in my lifetime, in fact) when Christians were a real force for positive social change. Them days seem to be in the past.
 
2014-04-04 08:44:15 PM  
Free access to open debate and information exposes people to varying viewpoints and gives them an enhanced ability to deal with large volumes of information (eventually).  This isn't a new problem for religion, the printing press put more than its share of nails in the coffin of magical thinking too.  By the late 1700s/early 1800s religions as actual moral guiding forces were verging on extinct, it was only the Red Scare in the 1950s that brought it back at all (temporarily, apparently, but well enough that they're back to their usual sociological-malignant-cancer status).

Sure, it's not an antidote for racism, but racism is a general attitude of dislike for something, it's not really possible to 'argue that away' in the short term.  Religions have  doctrine, though, which can be directly met and countered by logic and argument-- any situation where you actually let people argue, study, and think things over poisons it pretty fast.

// Rooting for the kill to be permanent this time.
 
2014-04-04 08:45:45 PM  
The rise of Americans who claim no religious affiliation coincides with (medisbullshait) The Rise Of Satan.

just here to help.
 
2014-04-04 08:46:49 PM  

doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.


yup. you should have tried it in a hick town in iowa
 
2014-04-04 08:47:36 PM  

MFAWG: vonster: MFAWG: I think there is a certain type of Christianity that's being practiced in the US that has nothing to do with Christianity and may actually end up destroying it.

And that would actually be a bad thing.

I think in a limited way you may be right.

There was a time (in my lifetime, in fact) when Christians were a real force for positive social change. Them days seem to be in the past.


How old ARE you? Because I'm closing in on 40 and that's literally never been the case in my lifetime. Also, the troops have never once defended my freedoms.(except maybe the coast guard and NORAD)
 
2014-04-04 08:49:55 PM  

vonster: As always, the militants atheists are here to ugly up/hate up the conversation.

Bye


As always, a self-righteous Christian drops by for the sole reason of letting us know how superior he is.

Seeya!
 
2014-04-04 08:51:45 PM  

neongoats: MFAWG: vonster: MFAWG: I think there is a certain type of Christianity that's being practiced in the US that has nothing to do with Christianity and may actually end up destroying it.

And that would actually be a bad thing.

I think in a limited way you may be right.

There was a time (in my lifetime, in fact) when Christians were a real force for positive social change. Them days seem to be in the past.

How old ARE you? Because I'm closing in on 40 and that's literally never been the case in my lifetime. Also, the troops have never once defended my freedoms.(except maybe the coast guard and NORAD)


I'm 50, and I don't think you were paying enough attention to the 70s.
 
2014-04-04 08:52:31 PM  

doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.


I hear you.  I'm not really a atheist, I guess.  I don't believe it(if anything) went down like any of the holy books say.  I think some of them would kill themselves if they ever realized how foolish they act.  Thanks to their permanent suspension of disbelief on the subject, most are safe.
 
2014-04-04 08:52:34 PM  

MFAWG: neongoats: MFAWG: vonster: MFAWG: I think there is a certain type of Christianity that's being practiced in the US that has nothing to do with Christianity and may actually end up destroying it.

And that would actually be a bad thing.

I think in a limited way you may be right.

There was a time (in my lifetime, in fact) when Christians were a real force for positive social change. Them days seem to be in the past.

How old ARE you? Because I'm closing in on 40 and that's literally never been the case in my lifetime. Also, the troops have never once defended my freedoms.(except maybe the coast guard and NORAD)

I'm 50, and I don't think you were paying enough attention to the 70s.


Well I was ages 0 through 3 in the 70s, So yeah.
 
2014-04-04 08:52:52 PM  
"what this remarkable bile suggests to me is that there is something rotten in the Internet culture that can vent it."
openparachute.files.wordpress.com

/right before he shut down his own forums
//no idea what he thinks about pirates
 
2014-04-04 08:53:36 PM  
It could be that a lot more people are seeing how violent and destructive the world actually is, and are starting to lose hope in a higher power.

It used to be that people rarely knew what happened outside of their towns, which made it easy to believe in a higher power, because we were ignorant of some of the particularly bad things happening.

Now we have instant access to any positive or negative news in the world.
 
2014-04-04 08:57:13 PM  

neongoats: MFAWG: neongoats: MFAWG: vonster: MFAWG: I think there is a certain type of Christianity that's being practiced in the US that has nothing to do with Christianity and may actually end up destroying it.

And that would actually be a bad thing.

I think in a limited way you may be right.

There was a time (in my lifetime, in fact) when Christians were a real force for positive social change. Them days seem to be in the past.

How old ARE you? Because I'm closing in on 40 and that's literally never been the case in my lifetime. Also, the troops have never once defended my freedoms.(except maybe the coast guard and NORAD)

I'm 50, and I don't think you were paying enough attention to the 70s.

Well I was ages 0 through 3 in the 70s, So yeah.


And that's kind of my point. In the 60s and 70s you had mainstream Christians very involved in civil rights, nuclear proliferation, and economic issues in the US. And that was really true going back 100 years at least.

And it's all changed, or seems to have. And it's a bad thing.
 
2014-04-04 08:59:29 PM  

vonster: As always, the militants atheists are here to ugly up/hate up the conversation.

Bye


As opposed to the "really militant because we actually pick up guns and shoot people" gospel grinders
 
2014-04-04 09:01:47 PM  
I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.
 
2014-04-04 09:02:07 PM  

vonster: As always, the militants atheists are here to ugly up/hate up the conversation.

Bye


img.pandawhale.com
 
2014-04-04 09:02:23 PM  
Makes sense, since religion is largely a made up pastime by and for bored humans. The interwebs can alleviate boredom!
 
2014-04-04 09:03:02 PM  
Nowadays, it seems you are either an agnostic (50% of the time), atheistic (10% of the time), or a religious fanatic (20% of the time). The other 20% of the time you can't be bothered to give an answer.
 
2014-04-04 09:03:07 PM  

MFAWG: And that's kind of my point. In the 60s and 70s you had mainstream Christians very involved in civil rights, nuclear proliferation, and economic issues in the US. And that was really true going back 100 years at least.


You've also had mainstream Christians opposing every change.

The word "Christian" tells you nothing without a long string of modifiers and brand affiliations. There are literally thousands of different belief sets that all call themselves "Christian."
 
2014-04-04 09:04:17 PM  

talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.


www.yourprops.com
 
2014-04-04 09:06:16 PM  

talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.


I'm an agnostic atheist and Christmas is still my favorite holiday, for the "getting together with friends and family" aspect along with trying to surprise someone with a cool gift. Also, shopping is easy when you're a big guy in a leather jacket.

/or Amazon
 
2014-04-04 09:08:06 PM  
static.flickr.com

has it been that long?
 
2014-04-04 09:08:36 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: MFAWG: And that's kind of my point. In the 60s and 70s you had mainstream Christians very involved in civil rights, nuclear proliferation, and economic issues in the US. And that was really true going back 100 years at least.

You've also had mainstream Christians opposing every change.

The word "Christian" tells you nothing without a long string of modifiers and brand affiliations. There are literally thousands of different belief sets that all call themselves "Christian."


True enough, and I think what we have isa very loud minority that really make the majority look bad. The problem is that the majority don't seem willing or even able to do anything about it.
 
2014-04-04 09:09:42 PM  
Ebola is up too.
 
2014-04-04 09:10:34 PM  

Boojum2k: talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.

I'm an agnostic atheist and Christmas is still my favorite holiday, for the "getting together with friends and family" aspect along with trying to surprise someone with a cool gift. Also, shopping is easy when you're a big guy in a leather jacket.

/or Amazon


You cannot be an agnostic atheist. You are either an Agnostic or an Atheist.
 
2014-04-04 09:11:15 PM  

CruJones: shtychkn: Omahawg: atheism, open racism, acceptance of the gheys, cats, free pornography, and hp lovecraft have all seem to have had a field day since the internet really hit the ground running in the mid-90s

I'm okay with five out of six.

I agree. The cats thing needs to stop.

No, Lovecraft is insufferable, I can take or leave cats.


You can both shut your whore mouths!

You can't take my cats OR my Lovecraft!
 
2014-04-04 09:12:01 PM  

anuran: vonster: As always, the militants atheists are here to ugly up/hate up the conversation.

Bye

As opposed to the "really militant because we actually pick up guns and shoot people" gospel grinders


That's why I like that cartoon that always gets posted. Any other time the word militant gets used it refers to seriously dangerous people. With atheists it's used for, "people who are condescending on the internet"
 
2014-04-04 09:13:13 PM  

MFAWG: Lenny_da_Hog: MFAWG: And that's kind of my point. In the 60s and 70s you had mainstream Christians very involved in civil rights, nuclear proliferation, and economic issues in the US. And that was really true going back 100 years at least.

You've also had mainstream Christians opposing every change.

The word "Christian" tells you nothing without a long string of modifiers and brand affiliations. There are literally thousands of different belief sets that all call themselves "Christian."

True enough, and I think what we have isa very loud minority that really make the majority look bad. The problem is that the majority don't seem willing or even able to do anything about it.


Yeah its all Fred Phelps fault! Modern Christian's would never have done anything scummy if it weren't for those bastards at Westboro Baptist.
 
2014-04-04 09:15:19 PM  
18%?

The atheists have won.

Guess I'll give up my belief in God now.

/since they are a majority and all
 
2014-04-04 09:17:01 PM  

Truther: 18%?

The atheists have won.

Guess I'll give up my belief in God now.

/since they are a majority and all


No, you keep right on truthing. The world needs people who truth.
 
2014-04-04 09:17:02 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Boojum2k: talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.

I'm an agnostic atheist and Christmas is still my favorite holiday, for the "getting together with friends and family" aspect along with trying to surprise someone with a cool gift. Also, shopping is easy when you're a big guy in a leather jacket.

/or Amazon

You cannot be an agnostic atheist. You are either an Agnostic or an Atheist.


Noooo! It's trendy! It's on the internet and *everything*!

It's funnier to point out that when the word "agnostic" was coined in the late 1800s, it meant exactly the same thing as "atheist". The words were interchangeable. After a few decades, it evolved to be adopted by people who questioned religion, but were uncommitted -- they didn't know if they themselves believed.

Now, Interwebbies have gone back to the root word as if it were an ancient concept, and now apply it as an adjective to "theism" and "atheism" on that silly 4-square chart, as if that's the way people actually think about themselves.
 
2014-04-04 09:17:08 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Boojum2k: talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.

I'm an agnostic atheist and Christmas is still my favorite holiday, for the "getting together with friends and family" aspect along with trying to surprise someone with a cool gift. Also, shopping is easy when you're a big guy in a leather jacket.

/or Amazon

You cannot be an agnostic atheist. You are either an Agnostic or an Atheist.


1/10. Overdone to the point of absurdity by now. One free point for posting before letrole comes in with the atheism is a religion line.
 
2014-04-04 09:17:24 PM  
My biggest reason for turning over to the dark side.

img.fark.net

/ Thank you internet!
 
2014-04-04 09:17:34 PM  

Truther: 18%?

The atheists have won.

Guess I'll give up my belief in God now.

/since they are a majority and all


0-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2014-04-04 09:17:45 PM  

ScaryBottles: MFAWG: Lenny_da_Hog: MFAWG: And that's kind of my point. In the 60s and 70s you had mainstream Christians very involved in civil rights, nuclear proliferation, and economic issues in the US. And that was really true going back 100 years at least.

You've also had mainstream Christians opposing every change.

The word "Christian" tells you nothing without a long string of modifiers and brand affiliations. There are literally thousands of different belief sets that all call themselves "Christian."

True enough, and I think what we have isa very loud minority that really make the majority look bad. The problem is that the majority don't seem willing or even able to do anything about it.

Yeah its all Fred Phelps fault! Modern Christian's would never have done anything scummy if it weren't for those bastards at Westboro Baptist.


That's exactly what I said, yes.

FWIW, I personally find the OMGCHRITUNSARETEHSTUPIDZ crowd at least as annoying and way more inflexible than most.

So there's that.
 
2014-04-04 09:17:49 PM  

doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.


Where did you live?

Alabama?
 
2014-04-04 09:22:10 PM  

Truther: doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.

Where did you live?

Alabama?


Rural anywhere.
 
2014-04-04 09:23:09 PM  

talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.


Beyond that, there are a lot of people who self-identify as atheist but that doesn't mean they don't believe in stupid bullshiat. There are healthy interests among younger demographics in vampires and the paranormal, Ouija boards and the Bermuda Triangle, chakras and energy auras, yoga and meditation, indigo children, palm readings, soothsaying, tarot cards, mindreaders and people with special powers (David Blaine, Chris Angel), homeopathy, ancient aliens, reincarnation, the Illuminati, etc...

Atheism does not make one insusceptible to pseudo-science, pseudo-philosophy and pseudo-spirituality, and thanks to the internet they can entertain those niches with greater fervor than before.
 
2014-04-04 09:23:12 PM  

Truther: doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.

Where did you live?

Alabama?


If only. This was in Rhode Island, bastion of free thinking as it were.
 
IP
2014-04-04 09:23:24 PM  

SlothB77: [static.flickr.com image 500x350]

has it been that long?


Came for this.  Leaving satisfied.

/it has...
 
2014-04-04 09:23:54 PM  

efgeise: It could be that a lot more people are seeing how violent and destructive the world actually is, and are starting to lose hope in a higher power.

It used to be that people rarely knew what happened outside of their towns, which made it easy to believe in a higher power, because we were ignorant of some of the particularly bad things happening.

Now we have instant access to any positive or negative news in the world.


Eh no, mostly. I agree the rapid spreas of information makes it seem like bad shiats always happening. But people weren't ignorant most of history, bad news traveled fast. Not to mention life was always chaotic in general...economic stability, social upheavel, power struggles, the occasional devastating plague. I think there's more to it than people questioning religion based on bad events.
 
2014-04-04 09:26:48 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Noooo! It's trendy! It's on the internet and *everything*!


It's specific. I feel there is no evidence in a God or any other supernatural beings, and therefore do not believe in any such. And while I also will argue against people using their superstitions to make public policy in science and education (like the ID crowd) or other similar areas, I know their beliefs or icons of those beliefs hold no supernatural power to harm me, either.

So no, getting butthurt over me being precise doesn't harm me either. I'm in no danger of being tossed out of a group I'm not a member of, so:
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-04 09:27:25 PM  

Ishkur: Beyond that, there are a lot of people who self-identify as atheist but that doesn't mean they don't believe in stupid bullshiat. There are healthy interests among younger demographics in vampires and the paranormal, Ouija boards and the Bermuda Triangle, chakras and energy auras, yoga and meditation, indigo children, palm readings, soothsaying, tarot cards, mindreaders and people with special powers (David Blaine, Chris Angel), homeopathy, ancient aliens, reincarnation, the Illuminati, etc...

Atheism does not make one insusceptible to pseudo-science, pseudo-philosophy and pseudo-spirituality, and thanks to the internet they can entertain those niches with greater fervor than before.


I would be very curious to see a breakdown of the number of Christians that believe all that crap vs. the number of Atheists who do.
 
2014-04-04 09:27:37 PM  
Places where you tend to interact with a greater variety of people, like large cities, tend to lean more liberal, while places where you only tend to interact with like-minded people tend to lean more conservative.  With the internet giving even the most remote locations the full spectrum of humanity, this doesn't seem particularly shocking.
 
2014-04-04 09:27:41 PM  
what, invisible sky wizard does n'''''t exist
 
2014-04-04 09:29:29 PM  

MFAWG: ScaryBottles: MFAWG: Lenny_da_Hog: MFAWG: And that's kind of my point. In the 60s and 70s you had mainstream Christians very involved in civil rights, nuclear proliferation, and economic issues in the US. And that was really true going back 100 years at least.

You've also had mainstream Christians opposing every change.

The word "Christian" tells you nothing without a long string of modifiers and brand affiliations. There are literally thousands of different belief sets that all call themselves "Christian."

True enough, and I think what we have isa very loud minority that really make the majority look bad. The problem is that the majority don't seem willing or even able to do anything about it.

Yeah its all Fred Phelps fault! Modern Christian's would never have done anything scummy if it weren't for those bastards at Westboro Baptist.

That's exactly what I said, yes.

FWIW, I personally find the OMGCHRITUNSARETEHSTUPIDZ crowd at least as annoying and way more inflexible than most.

So there's that.

http://www.ibtimes.com/tim-tebow-cancels-sermons-texas-megachurch-ov er -pastors-anti-gay-remarks-1100223

http://www.advocate.com/news/daily-news/2011/09/06/gay-friendly-port la nd-gets-antigay-megachurch

http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/devotionals/loving-god?view=articl e& id=14321:illinois-megachurch-denies-anti-gay-stance-after-starbucks-ce o-cancels&catid=570

http://www.christianpost.com/news/anglican-church-of-uganda-may-brea k- away-over-anti-gay-law-controversy-115516/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128491183

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/07/evangelicals-gay-rights-iho p- god-loves-uganda-sundance

http://www.alan.com/2014/02/19/megachurch-pastor-michael-sam-paving- wa y-for-gay-antichrist/

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2013/11/cas-anti-trans-coalitio n- brags-about-tax-exempt-megachurchs-ability-to-shape-public-policy.html

And that is one issue, one and there literally hundreds more. Do I need to get into all the reproductive rights issues too, or maybe we can examine their attacks on our educational system or we can discuss their treatment of Muslims? Your choice.
 
2014-04-04 09:32:46 PM  

Dragonflew: I would be very curious to see a breakdown of the number of Christians that believe all that crap vs. the number of Atheists who do.


I have a Wiccan friend who got angry and almost dumped another friend for becoming sorta Christian (she's a Unitarian), basically squealing about "the bible says you have to try to kill me!" and then ranted to me about it.

I told her she believed in magic, crystal and pyramid power in an age of computers and quantum mechanics, she wasn't in a good position to question another's choice of superstitions. We're all still friends. Sometimes you just have to put up with people's quirks, sometimes you don't.
 
2014-04-04 09:32:49 PM  
The rise of women who believe in God rise with my cock

/keeping this place classy
 
2014-04-04 09:33:04 PM  

doosh: Truther: doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.

Where did you live?

Alabama?

If only. This was in Rhode Island, bastion of free thinking as it were.


Sorry man...
 
2014-04-04 09:33:46 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: FlashHarry: well, knowledge is an antidote to superstition. and the internet is the greatest doorway to knowledge ever created, so maybe yeah. also correlation ≠ causation, so who knows?

Yeah. I'm sure all those kittens and anti-vax articles have really enlightened us all.


Don't forget the porn.

/The internet is what you make of it
 
2014-04-04 09:33:48 PM  

ScaryBottles: MFAWG: ScaryBottles: MFAWG: Lenny_da_Hog: MFAWG: And that's kind of my point. In the 60s and 70s you had mainstream Christians very involved in civil rights, nuclear proliferation, and economic issues in the US. And that was really true going back 100 years at least.

You've also had mainstream Christians opposing every change.

The word "Christian" tells you nothing without a long string of modifiers and brand affiliations. There are literally thousands of different belief sets that all call themselves "Christian."

True enough, and I think what we have isa very loud minority that really make the majority look bad. The problem is that the majority don't seem willing or even able to do anything about it.

Yeah its all Fred Phelps fault! Modern Christian's would never have done anything scummy if it weren't for those bastards at Westboro Baptist.

That's exactly what I said, yes.

FWIW, I personally find the OMGCHRITUNSARETEHSTUPIDZ crowd at least as annoying and way more inflexible than most.

So there's that.
http://www.ibtimes.com/tim-tebow-cancels-sermons-texas-megachurch-ov er -pastors-anti-gay-remarks-1100223

http://www.advocate.com/news/daily-news/2011/09/06/gay-friendly-port la nd-gets-antigay-megachurch

http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/devotionals/loving-god?view=articl e& id=14321:illinois-megachurch-denies-anti-gay-stance-after-starbucks-ce o-cancels&catid=570

http://www.christianpost.com/news/anglican-church-of-uganda-may-brea k- away-over-anti-gay-law-controversy-115516/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128491183

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/07/evangelicals-gay-rights-iho p- god-loves-uganda-sundance

http://www.alan.com/2014/02/19/megachurch-pastor-michael-sam-paving- wa y-for-gay-antichrist/

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2013/11/cas-anti-trans-coalitio n- brags-about-tax-exempt-megachurchs-ability-to-shape-public-policy.html

And that is one issue, one and there literally hundreds more. Do I need to get into all the reproductive rights issues too, or maybe we can examine their attacks on our educational system or we can discuss their treatment of Muslims? Your choice.


No, don't bother. You've decided to be part of the problem, and you don't see it.

Have a nice day.
 
2014-04-04 09:34:22 PM  

Boojum2k: Lenny_da_Hog: Noooo! It's trendy! It's on the internet and *everything*!

It's specific. I feel there is no evidence in a God or any other supernatural beings, and therefore do not believe in any such. And while I also will argue against people using their superstitions to make public policy in science and education (like the ID crowd) or other similar areas, I know their beliefs or icons of those beliefs hold no supernatural power to harm me, either.

So no, getting butthurt over me being precise doesn't harm me either. I'm in no danger of being tossed out of a group I'm not a member of, so:
[img.fark.net image 500x375]


The problem with the newfangled 4-square descriptions is that it doesn't include "Agnostic Agnostics". Everyone is either atheist or theist, and there's no room for people who don't know what they believe. There's no, "I'd like to believe there's a god, but I'm not sure... there's so much to consider...." -- which is how most people who call themselves "agnostic" nowadays describe themselves.

Very, very few atheists will say "THERE IS DEFINITELY NO GOD!" except as shorthand for, "There's no evidence for this concept so I'm not going to incorporate it into my mental model of the universe, and if evidence arises, that makes it part of the universe and so it's not supernatural."

"Is there a god, yes or no?" is most quickly answered "no." It's more precisely answered by rephrasing the question and answering it with a few paragraphs. The whole "gnostic/agnostic theist/atheist" just muddies the waters.
 
2014-04-04 09:35:06 PM  

ScaryBottles: Truther: 18%?

The atheists have won.

Guess I'll give up my belief in God now.

/since they are a majority and all


Huey Lewis was vastly underrated...
 
2014-04-04 09:35:13 PM  
See, zombo.com does have a purpose.
 
2014-04-04 09:36:34 PM  

Truther: ScaryBottles: Truther: 18%?

The atheists have won.

Guess I'll give up my belief in God now.

/since they are a majority and all

Huey Lewis was vastly underrated...


that depends on your definition of underrated
 
2014-04-04 09:37:28 PM  

MFAWG: ScaryBottles: MFAWG: ScaryBottles: MFAWG: Lenny_da_Hog: MFAWG: And that's kind of my point. In the 60s and 70s you had mainstream Christians very involved in civil rights, nuclear proliferation, and economic issues in the US. And that was really true going back 100 years at least.

You've also had mainstream Christians opposing every change.

The word "Christian" tells you nothing without a long string of modifiers and brand affiliations. There are literally thousands of different belief sets that all call themselves "Christian."

True enough, and I think what we have isa very loud minority that really make the majority look bad. The problem is that the majority don't seem willing or even able to do anything about it.

Yeah its all Fred Phelps fault! Modern Christian's would never have done anything scummy if it weren't for those bastards at Westboro Baptist.

That's exactly what I said, yes.

FWIW, I personally find the OMGCHRITUNSARETEHSTUPIDZ crowd at least as annoying and way more inflexible than most.

So there's that.
http://www.ibtimes.com/tim-tebow-cancels-sermons-texas-megachurch-ov er -pastors-anti-gay-remarks-1100223

http://www.advocate.com/news/daily-news/2011/09/06/gay-friendly-port la nd-gets-antigay-megachurch

http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/devotionals/loving-god?view=articl e& id=14321:illinois-megachurch-denies-anti-gay-stance-after-starbucks-ce o-cancels&catid=570

http://www.christianpost.com/news/anglican-church-of-uganda-may-brea k- away-over-anti-gay-law-controversy-115516/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128491183

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/07/evangelicals-gay-rights-iho p- god-loves-uganda-sundance

http://www.alan.com/2014/02/19/megachurch-pastor-michael-sam-paving- wa y-for-gay-antichrist/

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2013/11/cas-anti-trans-coalitio n- brags-about-tax-exempt-megachurchs-ability-to-shape-public-policy.html

And that is one issue, one and there literally hundreds more. Do I need ...


So of course anyone who doesn't agree with you is part of the problem.

This from a guy claiming Christians are being unjustly maligned for clannishness and being intolerant. Do you have any idea how stupid you look right now?
 
2014-04-04 09:39:18 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: The problem with the newfangled 4-square descriptions is that it doesn't include "Agnostic Agnostics". Everyone is either atheist or theist, and there's no room for people who don't know what they believe.


That's actually a good point. I can see how that becomes an issue, sorry if my use may have seemed confusing or trendy, I've actually used it for years as shorthand for "Í have no idea if there's any kind of supreme power, but I'm fairly certain there isn't, there's no evidence for any, and if there is it's nothing like a magic man in a golden palace with his magic sheep."
 
2014-04-04 09:40:28 PM  

Boojum2k: Dragonflew: I would be very curious to see a breakdown of the number of Christians that believe all that crap vs. the number of Atheists who do.

I have a Wiccan friend who got angry and almost dumped another friend for becoming sorta Christian (she's a Unitarian), basically squealing about "the bible says you have to try to kill me!"


Well, you have to admit, she is correct. :)  Exodus 22:18, among many others.

The bible says love thy brother... unless of course he is gay, grows two crops in the same field, practices witchcraft, works on Sunday, curses their mother or father, cheats with someone's wife, is a victim of rape, etc.  Then they should be put to death.
 
2014-04-04 09:46:59 PM  

Dragonflew: Well, you have to admit, she is correct. :)


Heh, true, but I doubt she had to worry about a Unitarian dragging her to a bonfire. Although I'm fairly certain the original meaning was "poisoner" which isn't actually a bad type to avoid, whether you believe in a deity or not.

I've certainly played the "pick apart the bible" game with several Christian friends. The deal is I don't do it unless they give me grief first, then they better try and keep up.
 
2014-04-04 09:49:14 PM  
Most of thhe world's atheists can be described as "Someone who doesn't give a sh*t about religion".
I you're agonizing about whether you qualify, you probably don't.
 
2014-04-04 09:49:43 PM  

Boojum2k: Dragonflew: Well, you have to admit, she is correct. :)

Heh, true, but I doubt she had to worry about a Unitarian dragging her to a bonfire. Although I'm fairly certain the original meaning was "poisoner" which isn't actually a bad type to avoid, whether you believe in a deity or not.

I've certainly played the "pick apart the bible" game with several Christian friends. The deal is I don't do it unless they give me grief first, then they better try and keep up.


I had a friend who was going to go into the priesthood until he took World Religions in university, and came out an atheist after his education. He was incredible at the pick-apart-the-bible game because of his vast knowledge about it and other religious texts.
 
2014-04-04 09:50:53 PM  

vonster: As always, the militants atheists are here to ugly up/hate up the conversation.

Bye


ZOMG, wait, NO!  I just got to this thread and you are already gone!?  NOOOOOOOOO!

/Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
//Or do, nobody cares.
 
2014-04-04 09:51:58 PM  

vonster: As always, the militants atheists are here to ugly up/hate up the conversation.

Bye


People like you are why those people think religion is stupid.

Because really, who'd want to believe anything you believe?
 
2014-04-04 09:53:38 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: The problem with the newfangled 4-square descriptions is that it doesn't include "Agnostic Agnostics". Everyone is either atheist or theist, and there's no room for people who don't know what they believe. There's no, "I'd like to believe there's a god, but I'm not sure... there's so much to consider...." -- which is how most people who call themselve "agnostic" nowadays describe themselves.

Very, very few atheists will say "THERE IS DEFINITELY NO GOD!" except as shorthand for, "There's no evidence for this concept so I'm not going to incorporate it into my mental model of the universe, and if evidence arises, that makes it part of the universe and so it's not supernatural."

"Is there a god, yes or no?" is most quickly answered "no." It's more precisely answered by rephrasing the question and answering it with a few paragraphs. The whole "gnostic/agnostic theist/atheist" just muddies the waters.


The actual, measurable problem with that 4 square is that the God question as that framework incorporates it is only meaningful for certain values of the word 'God'.  Those values are fine in the framework of the modern major religions, which are generally Monotheist.  So the framework is useful as far as it goes, just like Cartesian geometry is useful as far as it goes and Newtonian physics is useful as far as it goes.

It's not the only framework. There are some alternate ones that work better for, say, people who think that a true god must be unimaginable (and thus cannot actually be believed in) by humans.
 
2014-04-04 09:54:34 PM  

Dragonflew: Boojum2k: Dragonflew: Well, you have to admit, she is correct. :)

Heh, true, but I doubt she had to worry about a Unitarian dragging her to a bonfire. Although I'm fairly certain the original meaning was "poisoner" which isn't actually a bad type to avoid, whether you believe in a deity or not.

I've certainly played the "pick apart the bible" game with several Christian friends. The deal is I don't do it unless they give me grief first, then they better try and keep up.

I had a friend who was going to go into the priesthood until he took World Religions in university, and came out an atheist after his education. He was incredible at the pick-apart-the-bible game because of his vast knowledge about it and other religious texts.


I didn't exactly go to seminary, but when I started running into things in church that didn't make sense in the face of known facts, I spent around a year obsessed with learning the Bible, criticisms, and support theology.

Freshman sociology in college put the final nail in the coffin, as it clearly explained how such a complex set of baseless assertions could become embedded in a culture and accepted as truth.
 
2014-04-04 09:55:56 PM  

Dragonflew: I had a friend who was going to go into the priesthood until he took World Religions in university, and came out an atheist after his education. He was incredible at the pick-apart-the-bible game because of his vast knowledge about it and other religious texts.


Studying World Religions probably produces a lot of atheists.
 
2014-04-04 09:58:52 PM  
 
2014-04-04 09:59:35 PM  
I think a lot of people have found being in a cult is just too much work.
 
2014-04-04 10:02:23 PM  

Ishkur: talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.

Beyond that, there are a lot of people who self-identify as atheist but that doesn't mean they don't believe in stupid bullshiat. There are healthy interests among younger demographics in vampires and the paranormal, Ouija boards and the Bermuda Triangle, chakras and energy auras, yoga and meditation, indigo children, palm readings, soothsaying, tarot cards, mindreaders and people with special powers (David Blaine, Chris Angel), homeopathy, ancient aliens, reincarnation, the Illuminati, etc...

Atheism does not make one insusceptible to pseudo-science, pseudo-philosophy and pseudo-spirituality, and thanks to the internet they can entertain those niches with greater fervor than before.


I see I'm not needed here.

/Empirics Unite?
 
2014-04-04 10:04:07 PM  
I love how the morons in the article try to explain how they "realize correlation does not equal causation, but math, and so it kinda does."  Guess what? If you don't understand what contributes to variability, you can't properly assess what factors account for what percentage of a "decline in religious affiliation".  They even state that if their numbers work out, they're still not sure what's responsible for the other 50% of this decline.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-04 10:05:44 PM  
I think it also has to do with Ancient Aliens being mistaken for gods.
 
2014-04-04 10:05:48 PM  

wildcardjack: Ishkur: talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.

Beyond that, there are a lot of people who self-identify as atheist but that doesn't mean they don't believe in stupid bullshiat. There are healthy interests among younger demographics in vampires and the paranormal, Ouija boards and the Bermuda Triangle, chakras and energy auras, yoga and meditation, indigo children, palm readings, soothsaying, tarot cards, mindreaders and people with special powers (David Blaine, Chris Angel), homeopathy, ancient aliens, reincarnation, the Illuminati, etc...

Atheism does not make one insusceptible to pseudo-science, pseudo-philosophy and pseudo-spirituality, and thanks to the internet they can entertain those niches with greater fervor than before.

I see I'm not needed here.

/Empirics Unite?

i.ytimg.com
 
2014-04-04 10:07:07 PM  
Bloody Pirates.
 
2014-04-04 10:08:16 PM  

Deep Contact: I think it also has to do with Ancient Aliens being mistaken for gods.


I never know if you're serious or not. I'm gonna hug you and squeeze you and name you Poe.
 
2014-04-04 10:10:29 PM  
had98c:  1/10. Overdone to the point of absurdity by now. One free point for posting before letrole comes in with the atheism is a religion line.

I'm curious at how my two lines are over doing it.

Since Agnostic and Atheism are two different things.


Lenny_da_Hog:
It's funnier to point out that when the word "agnostic" was coined in the late 1800s, it meant exactly the same thing as "atheist". The words were interchangeable. After a few decades, it evolved to be adopted by people who questioned religion, but were uncommitted -- they didn't know if they themselves believed.


No. It was coined EXACTLY what it means now

Wordstory
The word agnostic was coined by the English biologist T.H. Huxley in the late 1860s as a member of the now defunct Metaphysical Society, in response to what he perceived as an abundance there of strongly held beliefs. The original usage of the term was confined to philosophy and religion, and referred to Huxley's assertion that anything beyond the material world, including the existence and nature of God,was unknowable. Today the word can be seen applied to questions of politics, culture, and science, as when someone claims to be a "political agnostic." 
 In a more recent trend, one can be agnostic  simply by not taking a stand on something. In 2010,President Obama called himself "agnostic" on tax cuts until he had seen all available options. At a forum on sustainable energy in 2008, GE CEO Jeff Immelt said he was "fuel agnostic fundamentally." In technology, software or hardware can be said to be agnostic  as well. Computer code that can run on any operating system is called "platform agnostic," and such services as phone and electric may be considered "agnostic" if not dedicated to a particular carrier, device, or user interface.
 
2014-04-04 10:13:19 PM  

thrasherrr: It's not the only framework. There are some alternate ones that work better for, say, people who think that a true god must be unimaginable (and thus cannot actually be believed in) by humans


Look, either you believe in the supernatural or you don't. It's not rocket science.  It's basic logic.
 
2014-04-04 10:18:45 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: thrasherrr: It's not the only framework. There are some alternate ones that work better for, say, people who think that a true god must be unimaginable (and thus cannot actually be believed in) by humans

Look, either you believe in the supernatural or you don't. It's not rocket science.  It's basic logic.


And there are people who believe in the supernatural who don't believe in God. Beliefs are shades of grey.
 
2014-04-04 10:24:03 PM  
Oh man! So in order for religion to thrive again, we need to get rid of free thinking, education, and the world's main medium of communication and information exchange? Yea..... Screw religion. Non religious and proud. And just to avoid confusion amongst the ignorant, non religious is not Atheist, or satan worshipping.
 
2014-04-04 10:24:19 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: had98c:  1/10. Overdone to the point of absurdity by now. One free point for posting before letrole comes in with the atheism is a religion line.

I'm curious at how my two lines are over doing it.

Since Agnostic and Atheism are two different things.


Lenny_da_Hog:
It's funnier to point out that when the word "agnostic" was coined in the late 1800s, it meant exactly the same thing as "atheist". The words were interchangeable. After a few decades, it evolved to be adopted by people who questioned religion, but were uncommitted -- they didn't know if they themselves believed.


No. It was coined EXACTLY what it means now

Wordstory
The word agnostic was coined by the English biologist T.H. Huxley in the late 1860s as a member of the now defunct Metaphysical Society, in response to what he perceived as an abundance there of strongly held beliefs. The original usage of the term was confined to philosophy and religion, and referred to Huxley's assertion that anything beyond the material world, including the existence and nature of God,was unknowable. Today the word can be seen applied to questions of politics, culture, and science, as when someone claims to be a "political agnostic." 
 In a more recent trend, one can be agnostic  simply by not taking a stand on something. In 2010,President Obama called himself "agnostic" on tax cuts until he had seen all available options. At a forum on sustainable energy in 2008, GE CEO Jeff Immelt said he was "fuel agnostic fundamentally." In technology, software or hardware can be said to be agnostic  as well. Computer code that can run on any operating system is called "platform agnostic," and such services as phone and electric may be considered "agnostic" if not dedicated to a particular carrier, device, or user interface.


I have never had the least sympathy with the a priori reasons against orthodoxy, and I have by nature and disposition the greatest possible antipathy to all the atheistic and infidel school. Nevertheless I know that I am, in spite of myself, exactly what the Christian would call, and, so far as I can see, is justified in calling, atheist and infidel.  -- Thomas Huxley.

He admits it means the same thing, but he doesn't like being called an "atheist" or "infidel". He emphasises the lack of a priori knowledge over the lack of theism, but they still mean the same thing.
 
2014-04-04 10:34:39 PM  
With the rise of the internet, we atheists have discovered a solidarity which existed only as localized pockets before. We have discovered we're more numerous than we ever suspected. We have also found our voice, and the ability to use it, calmly, rationally, and by its very depth of perception, equally as powerful the well-scripted, highly-practiced "shout-down" tactics of an industry whose influence relies on the fears and naivete of others.
 
2014-04-04 10:39:09 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Boojum2k: talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.

I'm an agnostic atheist and Christmas is still my favorite holiday, for the "getting together with friends and family" aspect along with trying to surprise someone with a cool gift. Also, shopping is easy when you're a big guy in a leather jacket.

/or Amazon

You cannot be an agnostic atheist. You are either an Agnostic or an Atheist.


Wrong. Q: Am I an atheist? A: Hmm, not sure. Ergo, agnostic atheist.
/ta-daa
 
2014-04-04 10:39:46 PM  

HAMMERTOE: With the rise of the internet, we atheists have discovered a solidarity which existed only as localized pockets before. We have discovered we're more numerous than we ever suspected. We have also found our voice, and the ability to use it, calmly, rationally, and by its very depth of perception, equally as powerful the well-scripted, highly-practiced "shout-down" tactics of an industry whose influence relies on the fears and naivete of others.


Yeah. I see the rise of atheism like the rise in homosexuality.

You used to have to how it. Now tout can Embrace it.
 
2014-04-04 10:40:59 PM  

HAMMERTOE: With the rise of the internet, we atheists have discovered a solidarity which existed only as localized pockets before. We have discovered we're more numerous than we ever suspected. We have also found our voice, and the ability to use it, calmly, rationally, and by its very depth of perception, equally as powerful the well-scripted, highly-practiced "shout-down" tactics of an industry whose influence relies on the fears and naivete of others.


Now this guy gets it.
 
2014-04-04 10:43:19 PM  

Truther: doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.

Where did you live?

Alabama?


Implying that Alabama is the bible thumpin capitol of the US?
 
2014-04-04 10:44:45 PM  

HAMMERTOE: With the rise of the internet, we atheists have discovered a solidarity which existed only as localized pockets before. We have discovered we're more numerous than we ever suspected. We have also found our voice, and the ability to use it, calmly, rationally, and by its very depth of perception, equally as powerful the well-scripted, highly-practiced "shout-down" tactics of an industry whose influence relies on the fears and naivete of others.


It also helped that the earliest foothold on the internet came from collegiates, scientists, and advanced computer users.

It was a few years before AOL made it accessible to the unwashed masses, and by then that ability to speak in criticism of religions was well-established and taken for granted.
 
2014-04-04 10:47:15 PM  

HAMMERTOE: With the rise of the internet, we atheists have discovered a solidarity which existed only as localized pockets before. We have discovered we're more numerous than we ever suspected. We have also found our voice, and the ability to use it, calmly, rationally, and by its very depth of perception, equally as powerful the well-scripted, highly-practiced "shout-down" tactics of an industry whose influence relies on the fears and naivete of others.


To an extent. And then you meet them in person and find out that, just like everybody else, they exist in the same proportions of good folks and assholes as most every other group. Although atheists do divorce less, at least. Looking for rational reasons to be with someone rather than "Glod has a plan for us" probably helps there.

But the internet does help in debunking the pseudoscientific bullshiat YEC's and the like promote.
 
2014-04-04 10:50:30 PM  

BammerTide: Implying that Alabama is the bible thumpin capitol of the US?


We're close, but not it. We've certainly got a large number in political office, but so far it's been more neglect than direct hostility.

I do remember having to look up what the hell a "secular humanist"  was when I was a kid (pre-internet, so had to use the library), and trying to figure out why that was a bad thing to be. Never found a good answer to that.
 
2014-04-04 10:56:18 PM  
the worst of it is is that jesus h christ on a sidecar had some really good things to say (that most christians don't listen to)

it's sort of sad that the whole 'hey, be good to folks' at the heart of most religions gets lost in all that whargarbl, muckity muck, and idol worship

/not as militant as I used to be....
 
2014-04-04 10:56:40 PM  

neongoats: MFAWG: neongoats: MFAWG: vonster: MFAWG: I think there is a certain type of Christianity that's being practiced in the US that has nothing to do with Christianity and may actually end up destroying it.

And that would actually be a bad thing.

I think in a limited way you may be right.

There was a time (in my lifetime, in fact) when Christians were a real force for positive social change. Them days seem to be in the past.

How old ARE you? Because I'm closing in on 40 and that's literally never been the case in my lifetime. Also, the troops have never once defended my freedoms.(except maybe the coast guard and NORAD)

I'm 50, and I don't think you were paying enough attention to the 70s.

Well I was ages 0 through 3 in the 70s, So yeah.


I'm pushing 50 and don't know what he's talking about either.

Religion does nothing constructive, some religious individuals do.  Just think what could be accomplished without religion holding them back.
 
2014-04-04 10:59:18 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: thrasherrr: It's not the only framework. There are some alternate ones that work better for, say, people who think that a true god must be unimaginable (and thus cannot actually be believed in) by humans


Look, either you believe in the supernatural or you don't. It's not rocket science.  It's basic logic.


That's wrong logic. You don't even have to use an esoteric example to make it fail.

Kepler coined the original Watchmaker, who set the universe in motion according to rules and then got the hell out of the way.  In this belief system 'the supernatural' does not even exist.  God made Nature, and that's that.  Yet such believers are definitely Theists on the framework.

So no, 'God' does not equal 'the supernatural' in that framework.
 
2014-04-04 11:04:25 PM  

Boojum2k: BammerTide: Implying that Alabama is the bible thumpin capitol of the US?

We're close, but not it. We've certainly got a large number in political office, but so far it's been more neglect than direct hostility.

I do remember having to look up what the hell a "secular humanist"  was when I was a kid (pre-internet, so had to use the library), and trying to figure out why that was a bad thing to be. Never found a good answer to that.


True. There are a bunch of zealots roaming the state and it doesnt help that the State reps are making laws based on myth. I just get my jimmies all twisted when Alabama is referenced to any and all bad. Its a nice state with decent people, most of the time.
 
2014-04-04 11:08:35 PM  

BammerTide: Boojum2k: BammerTide: Implying that Alabama is the bible thumpin capitol of the US?

We're close, but not it. We've certainly got a large number in political office, but so far it's been more neglect than direct hostility.

I do remember having to look up what the hell a "secular humanist"  was when I was a kid (pre-internet, so had to use the library), and trying to figure out why that was a bad thing to be. Never found a good answer to that.

True. There are a bunch of zealots roaming the state and it doesnt help that the State reps are making laws based on myth. I just get my jimmies all twisted when Alabama is referenced to any and all bad. Its a nice state with decent people, most of the time.


That's been my experience here too. Lived in Montgomery most of my life, not originally from here though.
 
2014-04-04 11:09:13 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-04 11:14:29 PM  

Boojum2k: BammerTide: Boojum2k: BammerTide: Implying that Alabama is the bible thumpin capitol of the US?

We're close, but not it. We've certainly got a large number in political office, but so far it's been more neglect than direct hostility.

I do remember having to look up what the hell a "secular humanist"  was when I was a kid (pre-internet, so had to use the library), and trying to figure out why that was a bad thing to be. Never found a good answer to that.

True. There are a bunch of zealots roaming the state and it doesnt help that the State reps are making laws based on myth. I just get my jimmies all twisted when Alabama is referenced to any and all bad. Its a nice state with decent people, most of the time.

That's been my experience here too. Lived in Montgomery most of my life, not originally from here though.


I was born and raised here. East Alabama
 
2014-04-04 11:19:20 PM  

BammerTide: I was born and raised here. East Alabama


I moved here almost directly from England, while in elementary school. You can imagine how that went. I still like the place, although I handle cold weather a lot better than the demonic asscrack summers here.
 
2014-04-04 11:25:33 PM  
A rose by any other mother flucking name you god damned moronic imbeciles.  Do you even know what means?  You are looking like a pedant that has run out of any other possible real information and so now revert to your base form of potato.
 
2014-04-04 11:27:25 PM  

Omahawg: the worst of it is is that jesus h christ on a sidecar had some really good things to say (that most christians don't listen to)

it's sort of sad that the whole 'hey, be good to folks' at the heart of most religions gets lost in all that whargarbl, muckity muck, and idol worship

/not as militant as I used to be....


Agreeing with Jesus should make you a Jesusian, just like agreeing with Marx makes you a Marxist, or agreeing with Keynes makes you a Keynesian. I agree with most of what Jesus of Nazareth is purported to have said.

You're only a Christian if you believe he's the Christ.
 
2014-04-04 11:31:21 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: I agree with most of what Jesus of Nazareth is purported to have said.You're only a Christian if you believe he's the Christ.


This is a good point. What do you think of CS Lewis's "Liar, lunatic, or Lord" argument?

/Mainly interested in keeping good conversation going
 
2014-04-04 11:31:26 PM  

Boojum2k: BammerTide: I was born and raised here. East Alabama

I moved here almost directly from England, while in elementary school. You can imagine how that went. I still like the place, although I handle cold weather a lot better than the demonic asscrack summers here.


cold i cannot do. Give me 100 degree with 99% humidity anyday
 
2014-04-04 11:33:17 PM  

BammerTide: cold i cannot do. Give me 100 degree with 99% humidity anyday


I've shoveled snow in t-shirt and shorts. It wasn't until I moved here that I realized that air conditioning was the greatest human invention ever.
 
2014-04-04 11:36:02 PM  

Boojum2k: Lenny_da_Hog: I agree with most of what Jesus of Nazareth is purported to have said.You're only a Christian if you believe he's the Christ.

This is a good point. What do you think of CS Lewis's "Liar, lunatic, or Lord" argument?

/Mainly interested in keeping good conversation going


It doesn't allow for the simple solution: Fans deify their idols, especially after martyrdom. He didn't necessarily say everything that's attributed to him.
 
2014-04-04 11:36:51 PM  

Boojum2k: BammerTide: cold i cannot do. Give me 100 degree with 99% humidity anyday

I've shoveled snow in t-shirt and shorts. It wasn't until I moved here that I realized that air conditioning was the greatest human invention ever.


I lived in GErmany for 3 yrs and it was painful in the winter. Play soccer one day and wake the next and its a white out. Loved the country, but damn the winters sucked
 
2014-04-04 11:37:38 PM  
I was in northern Thailand one time, and watched a religious ceremony at a remote temple in the jungle.  I have no idea what they were doing, but that's okay.

I have the same opinion towards what the folks do at the church down the street here at home in Berkeley CA.
 
2014-04-04 11:43:53 PM  
FTA: "According to MIT Technology Review, back in 1990 only eight percent of the U.S. population did not have a religious affiliation. Twenty years later in 2010 that number was up to 18 percent. That is a jump of 25 million people. Americans seem to be losing their religion, and from Downey's research we may have an answer."

Bullshiat.  More than 50% of the population does NOT actually believe their so-called religious affiliation and that isn't exactly NEWS...  it has been that way forever.  Social norms force outward conformity though inward doubt remains.  Church is a business opportunity.  Mega-church is a mega opportunity.  Internet simply offers the chance to have a sense of community without the bullshiat so more folks feel free to admit that they always had questions and many never believed.

/  I am right.
// You'll see.
/// Eventually.
 
2014-04-04 11:46:49 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: It doesn't allow for the simple solution: Fans deify their idols, especially after martyrdom. He didn't necessarily say everything that's attributed to him.


That's not the answer I was expecting, that's pretty damn good too! I was leaning towards "just because someone is delusional on some points doesn't make them wrong on all points" but historical deviation and revision works rather well.
 
2014-04-04 11:58:50 PM  

Athiest, Christian, Jewish, Agnostic, Liberal, Conservative, it doesn't matter.  I like to watch this quick 3 minute video every morning to inspire me to being the best I can be.  Not some narcissistic, self serving, superficial non-sense either. Just being nice to people and understanding why it's nice to be nice to people without some reason connected to affiliation is one of the most centered feelings you can have.




The clip SFW and so safe it should probably should be shown at your next company meeting
 
2014-04-05 12:10:50 AM  

jcooli09: Just think what could be accomplished without religion holding them back.


Hence the reason it was co-opted by power. Every tool in the chest is used to keep the rabble under control, if saying a couple wololo's in front of people keeps a few million from asking too many questions, it's worth the wololos.
 
2014-04-05 12:15:19 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: It also helped that the earliest foothold on the internet came from collegiates, scientists, and advanced computer users.


In the sense that it "helped" that the people who flew the Mercury missions were also astronauts.

/wut
 
2014-04-05 12:38:16 AM  
8% to 18% in 20 years.  Sounds like much of that 8% had children, and did not indoctrinate them.
 
2014-04-05 12:38:27 AM  
"The word "Christian" tells you nothing without a long string of modifiers and brand affiliations. There are literally thousands of different belief sets that all call themselves "Christian."

That's why you need to read for yourself and know what Christ actually said if you are interested.
That way you can't be deceived like some of these belief sets are.
If you can't or won't do that, you should just stay out of any debate on the subject.
 
2014-04-05 12:40:31 AM  

Kurmudgeon: "The word "Christian" tells you nothing without a long string of modifiers and brand affiliations. There are literally thousands of different belief sets that all call themselves "Christian."

That's why you need to read for yourself and know what Christ actually said if you are interested.
That way you can't be deceived like some of these belief sets are.
If you can't or won't do that, you should just stay out of any debate on the subject.


Why, that's the same thing the other 999 sects say about *you*.
 
2014-04-05 12:41:16 AM  

thrasherrr: Darth_Lukecash: thrasherrr: It's not the only framework. There are some alternate ones that work better for, say, people who think that a true god must be unimaginable (and thus cannot actually be believed in) by humans


Look, either you believe in the supernatural or you don't. It's not rocket science.  It's basic logic.

That's wrong logic. You don't even have to use an esoteric example to make it fail.

Kepler coined the original Watchmaker, who set the universe in motion according to rules and then got the hell out of the way.  In this belief system 'the supernatural' does not even exist.  God made Nature, and that's that.  Yet such believers are definitely Theists on the framework.

So no, 'God' does not equal 'the supernatural' in that framework.

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but this "watchmaker" you speak of would have to be outside of, or abovethe natural world that he/she/it created.

That sounds like the supernatural to me.

*Super: above; over; beyond.
 
2014-04-05 12:42:25 AM  

FlashHarry: well, knowledge is an antidote to superstition. and the internet is the greatest doorway to knowledge ever created,


For certain values of "knowledge," sure.
 
2014-04-05 12:48:18 AM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: The rise of Americans who claim no religious affiliation coincides with (medisbullshait) The Rise Of Satan.



blogs.babble.com

Well, isn't that special.
 
2014-04-05 01:58:05 AM  

Truther: 18%?
The atheists have won.
Guess I'll give up my belief in God now.
/since they are a majority and all


It's not about percentages. It's about what's true.
 
2014-04-05 02:06:30 AM  

Boojum2k: Lenny_da_Hog: I agree with most of what Jesus of Nazareth is purported to have said.You're only a Christian if you believe he's the Christ.

This is a good point. What do you think of CS Lewis's "Liar, lunatic, or Lord" argument?

/Mainly interested in keeping good conversation going


The problem with that argument is that it is dishonest and uses loaded language to anger believers. It also leaves out other valid answers, such as "myth".
 
2014-04-05 02:11:33 AM  

shtychkn: You mean the US is catching up with the test of the modern world?


I wish.  The US is shifting even more politically rightward than it has in a century.  Just take a look at Nate Silver's numbers and Charlie Cook's commentaries.  The R's are going to take the Senate this year.
 
2014-04-05 02:13:55 AM  

doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.


I once told a Muslim I was an atheist.  Without pausing, he asked, "Then how do you know the difference between right and wrong?"  I was speechless.
 
2014-04-05 02:14:30 AM  

Ed Grubermann: The problem with that argument is that it is dishonest and uses loaded language to anger believers. It also leaves out other valid answers, such as "myth".


Lenny actually covered that pretty well, too. But CS Lewis posed it as a means to prove the divinity of Jesus, not to anger believers. It just fails on in depth analysis as we've seen, but it started as a logical argument at least.
 
2014-04-05 02:21:54 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Boojum2k: talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.

I'm an agnostic atheist and Christmas is still my favorite holiday, for the "getting together with friends and family" aspect along with trying to surprise someone with a cool gift. Also, shopping is easy when you're a big guy in a leather jacket.

/or Amazon

You cannot be an agnostic atheist. You are either an Agnostic or an Atheist.


Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine? Aliens aren't gods, but they can very likely be a higher power, so he might be agnostic and atheist.

/At least he isn't an autoparanoid schitzophrenic dyslexic agnostic insomniac
//they lie awake at night wondering if it might be the dog's out to get him.
 
2014-04-05 02:24:00 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine?


Nope. It's a "I can't prove there isn't a God (see: proving a negative), but I don't believe there is one anyway, based on the evidence I have seen." No more than that.
 
2014-04-05 02:25:08 AM  

Ed Grubermann: Truther: 18%?
The atheists have won.
Guess I'll give up my belief in God now.
/since they are a majority and all

It's not about percentages. It's about what's true.


Until you start deciding the truth with weapons, that is.
 
2014-04-05 02:37:32 AM  
i.imgur.com

The only way to fight madness is with wisdom,
 
2014-04-05 03:11:02 AM  

doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.


Also a gen-X'er, but since I live in the bible belt I still get those reactions sometimes.
 
2014-04-05 03:36:26 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Boojum2k: talkertopc: I'm an Atheist but I think people are jumping the gun in equating no religious affiliation with atheism. I don't know any other Atheists but I do know people who believe there is a God but claim not to believe in any religion, those people still practice some religious rituals (baptism, wedding) for cultural reasons.

I'm an agnostic atheist and Christmas is still my favorite holiday, for the "getting together with friends and family" aspect along with trying to surprise someone with a cool gift. Also, shopping is easy when you're a big guy in a leather jacket.

/or Amazon

You cannot be an agnostic atheist. You are either an Agnostic or an Atheist.


Don't you start.

Gnostic: knows god(s) exist. Root is from the greek gnosis meaning knowledge.
Agnostic: does not know if god(s) exist. lit. "without knowledge"

Theist: believes in god(s). Root from the greek theos meaning god.Comes from the sanskrit dyeus which means "sky".
Atheist: does not believe in god(s). lit "without god".

Apodeictic: can be proven. From the greek verb apodeiknunai "to demonstrate".
Non-apodeictic: cannot be proven.

So a non-apodeictic agnostic atheist is someone who has no belief in god(s) does not have knowledge whether or not gods exist and believes it cannot be proven.

An apodeictic gnostic theist is someone who believes in god(s), knows god(s) exist, and believes their existence can be proven.

Seriously, this is what they teach you first year religious studies. There's no need to muddy the conversation with vague language.

Capital-Letter-A Agnostic: pretentious, sanctimonious, contrarian twat with a keffiya who shiats on every discussion about religion and thinks that makes him look superior.
 
2014-04-05 04:47:30 AM  
Computers use electricity.

The internet runs on computers.

More internet usage means more computers are being used.

Therefore more electricity is being consumed.

I conclude that the devil is inside of electricity, and we shoul all unplug our toasters to bring our nation back to Jesus.
 
2014-04-05 04:49:45 AM  

acohn: doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.

I once told a Muslim I was an atheist.  Without pausing, he asked, "Then how do you know the difference between right and wrong?"  I was speechless.


I hope you ended up having a conversation and learned that Muslims are human beings, and complex, and that the Muslim learned about different points of view.

//What's so funny about peace, love, and understanding?
 
2014-04-05 05:10:56 AM  

Boojum2k: This is a good point. What do you think of CS Lewis's "Liar, lunatic, or Lord" argument?


You're forgetting the more probable fourth option: Legend.

Jesus never did any of the things people say he did.
 
2014-04-05 08:08:56 AM  

Truther: doosh: As a gen-x'er I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when I had to think twice before admitting to someone I was an atheist. usually there was a gasp of disbelief but sometimes people would get visibly upset.

Where did you live?

Alabama?


Anywhere in the South would elicit that response today. After a lifetime of living as a devout Christian, the Church's attitude toward gays, women, etc. compelled me to dig deeper into the Bible. Long story short, I'm now an atheist. Yet only my husband and children know this. To let it be known would mean devastating family and would be detrimental to my and my husband's businesses. I don't feel the need to 'come out of the closet' as some atheists urge. My not publicly acknowledging my non-belief affects me in no way. I have no need to assert my right to (non) religious freedom or whatever. It's not like I can't be with the one I love or sit in the front of a bus. I just get to sleep in on Sundays and check my eye-rolling when I'm assured I'm being prayed for during my absence.
 
2014-04-05 10:05:42 AM  

MutantMotherMouse: Anywhere in the South would elicit that response today. After a lifetime of living as a devout Christian, the Church's attitude toward gays, women, etc. compelled me to dig deeper into the Bible. Long story short, I'm now an atheist. Yet only my husband and children know this. To let it be known would mean devastating family and would be detrimental to my and my husband's businesses. I don't feel the need to 'come out of the closet' as some atheists urge. My not publicly acknowledging my non-belief affects me in no way. I have no need to assert my right to (non) religious freedom or whatever. It's not like I can't be with the one I love or sit in the front of a bus. I just get to sleep in on Sundays and check my eye-rolling when I'm assured I'm being prayed for during my absence.


I'd wager a good number of those that DO attend on Sunday are only there for the same reasons you don't feel safe "coming out" as a nonbeliever.  Also you forgot to mention funerals... funerals are barely tolerable in the South, especially when you have reason to know that the deceased was a silent non-believer.
 
2014-04-05 10:13:57 AM  

weltallica: The only way to fight madness is with wisdom,


A return of optimus prime reference in a religious thread?

This is what the internet is meant to be.
 
2014-04-05 10:50:55 AM  
The interwebs have nothing to do with it, at least in my case.  I realized I was an atheist when I was around 8 years old (which was in 1975).  The internet was not even a twinkle in Al Gore's eye back then.
 
2014-04-05 11:18:12 AM  
It's really a no-brainer. Atheism has found purchase the same way furries have. Things people once felt compelled to hide and feel ashamed of now have active internet communities to support their adherents.
 
2014-04-05 12:12:27 PM  

Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine?

Nope. It's a "I can't prove there isn't a God (see: proving a negative), but I don't believe there is one anyway, based on the evidence I have seen." No more than that.


Actually... no. Know what else is considered Agnostic (according to Dictionary.com)? Pagans. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

Definition of Agnostic atheism here

Agnostic theism
 
2014-04-05 12:15:35 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine?

Nope. It's a "I can't prove there isn't a God (see: proving a negative), but I don't believe there is one anyway, based on the evidence I have seen." No more than that.

Actually... no. Know what else is considered Agnostic (according to Dictionary.com)? Pagans. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

Definition of Agnostic atheism here

Agnostic theism


You're not even the first to say I'm wrong somehow, then post a link to a definition of agnostic atheism semantically equal to what I've already said.
 
2014-04-05 01:24:33 PM  

Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine?

Nope. It's a "I can't prove there isn't a God (see: proving a negative), but I don't believe there is one anyway, based on the evidence I have seen." No more than that.

Actually... no. Know what else is considered Agnostic (according to Dictionary.com)? Pagans. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

Definition of Agnostic atheism here

Agnostic theism

You're not even the first to say I'm wrong somehow, then post a link to a definition of agnostic atheism semantically equal to what I've already said.


But the question lies: Would an alien be a god?
 
2014-04-05 01:32:11 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Would an alien be a god?


Unlikely. They would have evolved out of the same universal constants we have, which as we see on Earth can hold a lot of variety, not even getting into possibilities for different chemical basis or extreme environments, most all of which if they could produce life would produce it with far more limitations than we have. Even if they were equal to us, we understand enough of the universe that even if their technology was sufficiently advanced we would recognize it as such and not some supernatural force.
So no, to a high degree of probability they would not be even possibly considered as gods.
 
2014-04-05 01:40:23 PM  
"Why, that's the same thing the other 999 sects say about *you*. "

Good, then you've been comparing then. That way you know the difference between what Christ actually taught and how the other 998 or however many sects may be wrong. Good for you!
 
2014-04-05 01:50:18 PM  

Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Would an alien be a god?

Unlikely. They would have evolved out of the same universal constants we have, which as we see on Earth can hold a lot of variety, not even getting into possibilities for different chemical basis or extreme environments, most all of which if they could produce life would produce it with far more limitations than we have. Even if they were equal to us, we understand enough of the universe that even if their technology was sufficiently advanced we would recognize it as such and not some supernatural force.
So no, to a high degree of probability they would not be even possibly considered as gods.


So, much like there are Buddhists that are atheists, there can be agnostic atheists that believe aliens created us (through accident or on purpose). Not trying to be funny, but they would be a superior entity, yet not a god.
 
2014-04-05 01:56:56 PM  

People_are_Idiots: there can be agnostic atheists that believe aliens created us


Um, no. Agnostic atheist requires evidence for any kind of additional explanation beyond what we have already evidence for. "Maybe aliens" is an unsupported conjecture, so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God.
Conjecturing it would still be within the bounds, I like SF. Long-time Traveller player, but I don't believe any real-life Yaskoydray exists.

/Read The Salvation War online, alternate history/SF-Fantasy. .  atheism gets proven wrong in the worst possible way, but it still comes out pretty good as fun fiction.
 
2014-04-05 02:03:19 PM  

People_are_Idiots: [quote just to link back to you].


Boojum2k: so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God.

Slight correction, a bog standard gnostic atheist "knows" there is no God, while the one believing in ancient aliens would claim such similar knowledge. The vast vast majority of gnostic atheists are basically what you would just call an atheist, without any such belief in alien intervention.
 
2014-04-05 02:55:09 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: People_are_Idiots: Maybe he believes aliens created us and not something more divine?

Nope. It's a "I can't prove there isn't a God (see: proving a negative), but I don't believe there is one anyway, based on the evidence I have seen." No more than that.

Actually... no. Know what else is considered Agnostic (according to Dictionary.com)? Pagans. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

Definition of Agnostic atheism here

Agnostic theism

You're not even the first to say I'm wrong somehow, then post a link to a definition of agnostic atheism semantically equal to what I've already said.

But the question lies: Would an alien be a god?


Only to the ancients who were easy to manipulate.
 
2014-04-05 04:08:17 PM  
There's certainly plenty of stuff on the Internet to make someone lose his faith in God and man. Fanfiction.net alone has probably driven several small faiths to extinction.
 
2014-04-06 02:13:17 AM  

Boojum2k: so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God


Uhm... is this the Gnostic you mean?

If so, what you said is an oxymoron.
 
2014-04-06 03:01:04 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Uhm... is this the Gnostic you mean?


No. Refer to the foursquare that was referenced earlier in the thread.
 
2014-04-06 03:12:22 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God

Uhm... is this the Gnostic you mean?

If so, what you said is an oxymoron.


Gnostic with a capital G is different from gnostic with a lower case G. When it's capitalized it's referring to Gnostic religions, usually Greek or Coptic Gnostic, rarely non-western Gnostic faiths.

A gnostic atheist is usually apodiectic. They know god does not exist, they believe that reason can prove that god does not exist, and they're euphoric as all fark.

Most atheists are non-apodiectic agnostic atheists. Most people who self identify as Capital-Letter-A Agnostic are, if pressed non-apodiectic agnostic atheists or apathesits (believe that god cannot be known, or proven thus even considering having a belief system is futile and a waste of time).
 
2014-04-06 03:29:19 AM  

Ghastly: People_are_Idiots: Boojum2k: so someone who believed that would be a gnostic atheist, they believe in some power outside of natural occurrences on Earth, but no God

Uhm... is this the Gnostic you mean?

If so, what you said is an oxymoron.

Gnostic with a capital G is different from gnostic with a lower case G. When it's capitalized it's referring to Gnostic religions, usually Greek or Coptic Gnostic, rarely non-western Gnostic faiths.

A gnostic atheist is usually apodiectic. They know god does not exist, they believe that reason can prove that god does not exist, and they're euphoric as all fark.

Most atheists are non-apodiectic agnostic atheists. Most people who self identify as Capital-Letter-A Agnostic are, if pressed non-apodiectic agnostic atheists or apathesits (believe that god cannot be known, or proven thus even considering having a belief system is futile and a waste of time).


Thank you very much!

No snark, I mean that.
 
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  4. Click here to submit a link.

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