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(The Atlantic)   Twenty years ago, it was mathematically possible to work your way through college with a minimum-wage job. Now? Not so much   (theatlantic.com) divider line 300
    More: Obvious, minimum wages, credit hours, institution of higher education, limiting factor, Murray State, Michigan State University  
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5610 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Apr 2014 at 2:16 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-02 03:11:56 PM  
I am way past college age.   You kids in college do have it hard financially.   The economy crapped out and has been slow to recover.   Little anyone can do.

They did spend billions on wind mills and solar panels to try and help the economy.   They bailed out car companies and banks.    But they did very little to help the middle class or middle class kids in college.

You did not luck out.

You took the AP classes,  you were top 5% of your class, you picked a moderate school wisely.    But you are going to rack up debt and it mostly because of bad luck and timing.    You do not have it easy.   But right now your parents don't have it easy either.

It's the economy,  and I think it will be this way for at least another 10 years.
 
2014-04-02 03:12:46 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Dr Dreidel: And full-time ditch-diggers deserve incomes that can put them well above squalid living conditions, feed them and possibly a kid as well (a spouse'd ideally be working too), pay utilities (which includes a cell phone bill and probably home internet as well) and have something left over at the end of the month for savings.

So that is what in an hourly wage?


I dunno. Consult your local statisticians, mathematicians, economists, and other scientists. The end result might (probably should) have to have some multiplier for cost of living (it's cheaper to live almost anywhere other than DC/SF).

I can do some back of the envelope math, if you'd like, based on my experience in DC:
-Rent: $1100 (though I have a roommate, so you could use $2200 for a 2-bedroom)
-Food: $200 (I'm estimating. Part of the joys of single living on a high-ish salary is I don't have or need a "food budget". If I had a kid, this would be higher.)
-Utilities: $150 (I actually have utilities included in rent, but most do not. This is the approximate cost of my cell phone/internet usage)
-Transportation: $120 (I own a car, and pay for the insurance on it, but I take the train to work for $3.05 each way, 20 round trips per month. If you include my car payments on top of that, it's $350.)
-Savings: $100 (a laughably small amount to sock away per month - a single car accident or health scare could wipe out 2 years' worth of savings without making a dent in the debt.)

That's already $1670/month after taxes (using the 30% estimate which has served me rather well), you'll need $2386 (rounding up) per month, pre-tax.

2386/160 (that's 4 40-hour weeks) results in a recommended hourly wage of...$14.9125.

So can I expect your support for a $15 minimum wage?
 
2014-04-02 03:13:19 PM  

what_now: lilplatinum: 18 year olds are adults in the eyes of law the law, why should their need be gauged by their farking parents income if their parents are not giving it to them?

Ok.

Let's do that. Let's give Pell Grants based on the income of an 18 year old.

That kid who worked two jobs in school to help pay the rent? He's too rich for a grant.
The kid who's never worked a day in his life? Well, he's below the poverty line. Free money for him!!


Kids certainly shouldn't be penalized for working themselves and saving, if it can be proven that the amount saved is obtainable with the W-2s of that kid's work history (up to point x or whatever), he should still qualify.

Similarly, a legal adult can prove they are not getting income from their parents, they should qualify just like anyone else who has a similar lack of income.   It's no more his fault he has parents who are unwilling to support him than it is someone who has parents who are unable to support them.

In reality it should be like Europe where university is free and for those who actually should go to university, and we should have trade schools for many, many more subjects so they just aren't for retards who can't read.
 
2014-04-02 03:13:24 PM  

lilplatinum: what_now: Yeah, it can't. I get that it sucks, and that's the worst farking thing, but unless you're at Harvard funds are limited.

And a parent choosing not to pay for college vs a parent who has no money and CAN'T pay is not a hard choice.

Does it suck that the students are punished? Of course. But if you said "Well, if you're parents won't pay, just let us know" every single parent would say "Uhh..yeah. I'm not paying for that".

I've had PLENTY of people tell me "Well, I worked my own way through college, and I want my kid to do the same, so I'm not going to support them" and get annoyed when I say that the school won't support them either.

18 year olds are adults in the eyes of law the law, why should their need be gauged by their farking parents income if their parents are not giving it to them?


College students are not considered 'adults' when it comes to student aid, if they are under 25. I was an independent 20 year old with a full time job when I started college. I had to prove I was independent and self-sufficient in order to receive the most basic aid.

//18yr old are not really treated as adults in this country, don't be pedantic.
 
2014-04-02 03:15:34 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Dancin_In_Anson: Dr Dreidel: And full-time ditch-diggers deserve incomes that can put them well above squalid living conditions, feed them and possibly a kid as well (a spouse'd ideally be working too), pay utilities (which includes a cell phone bill and probably home internet as well) and have something left over at the end of the month for savings.

So that is what in an hourly wage?

I dunno. Consult your local statisticians, mathematicians, economists, and other scientists. The end result might (probably should) have to have some multiplier for cost of living (it's cheaper to live almost anywhere other than DC/SF).

I can do some back of the envelope math, if you'd like, based on my experience in DC:
-Rent: $1100 (though I have a roommate, so you could use $2200 for a 2-bedroom)
-Food: $200 (I'm estimating. Part of the joys of single living on a high-ish salary is I don't have or need a "food budget". If I had a kid, this would be higher.)
-Utilities: $150 (I actually have utilities included in rent, but most do not. This is the approximate cost of my cell phone/internet usage)
-Transportation: $120 (I own a car, and pay for the insurance on it, but I take the train to work for $3.05 each way, 20 round trips per month. If you include my car payments on top of that, it's $350.)
-Savings: $100 (a laughably small amount to sock away per month - a single car accident or health scare could wipe out 2 years' worth of savings without making a dent in the debt.)

That's already $1670/month after taxes (using the 30% estimate which has served me rather well), you'll need $2386 (rounding up) per month, pre-tax.

2386/160 (that's 4 40-hour weeks) results in a recommended hourly wage of...$14.9125.

So can I expect your support for a $15 minimum wage?


Pretty good estimate.   These guys give $13.68 an hour as the minimum living wage for a single person in DC.
 
2014-04-02 03:16:21 PM  
Ow! That was my feelings!:

College students are not considered 'adults' when it comes to student aid, if they are under 25. I was an independent 20 year old with a full time job when I started college. I had to prove I was independent and self-sufficient in order to receive the most basic aid.

I am aware of that, I was complaining about that very thing.

//18yr old are not really treated as adults in this country, don't be pedantic.

They are legally adults, I never said anything about being treated as adults.  Many 28 year olds aren't treated like adults in this farking country, it is kind of a problem with my generation (maybe, i'm in the grey zone between gen X and mellinials).
 
2014-04-02 03:16:32 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Headso: based on the services these people are requiring it'd be something like 14 or 15 bucks an hour, that would put a serious dent in the middle class subsidizing these company's profits.

So a minimum wage of $15/hour. Ok...I would assume that this would be a blanket federal benchmark.


Sure, that might create an awful situation where people in areas with lower costs of living might actually have discretionary spending but I'd be willing to take that risk so that people in more expensive areas are covered.
 
2014-04-02 03:16:35 PM  

Dr Dreidel: So can I expect your support for a $15 minimum wage?


Dancin_In_Anson: Ok...I would assume that this would be a blanket federal benchmark

 
2014-04-02 03:16:48 PM  
The cost is minimum wage PLUS student loan borrowing capacity.

The more the federal government got involved, the more the schools jacked up the prices.
 
2014-04-02 03:17:27 PM  

lilplatinum: Similarly, a legal adult can prove they are not getting income from their parents, they should qualify just like anyone else who has a similar lack of income.


You've just graduated from HS, where presumably, you lived with your parents. Now you're going to college. How would you propose that we "prove" that the parents won't support the student any longer?

lilplatinum: In reality it should be like Europe where university is free and for those who actually should go to university, and we should have trade schools for many, many more subjects so they just aren't for retards who can't read.


I agree completely with that. But that's not where we are, so arguing that we shouldn't consider parent income is a non starter.
 
2014-04-02 03:17:48 PM  

SunsetLament: The higher education industry (Big School) is just as "evil" as all the other big businesses liberals rail on and on about constantly.  They convinced the country that if you don't go to college, you can't get a "good" job.  And now that everyone is convinced you can't exist in society without a college education, they have raised the costs of attending college through the roof.  College professors who work twice a week for two hours are making the same as cops and firemen.  You want to know the root cause of the problem?  There you go


Can't be.  I was told that colleges are the "forums of the people", focused only on providing a rounded education.  It's the evil conservative Republican businesses who are delivering unreasonable expectations.That's what my college professors told me....

...wait....
 
2014-04-02 03:18:09 PM  

Cyberluddite: thamike: You're getting into it with somebody who, in all seriousness, claims his tuition was "$400-600-ish per semester" and whose books for 5 or 6 classes cost "a total of $150."

If he's as anywhere nearly as old as I am, I most certainly believe him.  Because I paid even less.

Of course, I am old as the hills, and I graduated from college close to 30 years ago.  My tuition, at a state university (the University of Nevada), was $17/credit when I started.  For 15 credits, that would be $255/semester.  And yeah, $150 for the books sounds about what I paid (as long as I bought used ones when available).  30 years later, I see now on the university's website that resident undergrad tuition is up to $203 per credit.  That's 1200% of what I had to pay 30 years ago.

My wife graduated from college about the same time, from the University of California (Berkeley).  When my wife started at Berkeley, she paid "fees" (U.C. refused to call it "tuition" until about 2 or 3 years ago--they always said they had no tuition, only certain "fees") of $3100 as a non-resident of California, and then the next three years as a California resident, she paid fees of all of about $750 for the year ($375 per semester)--to attend one of the finest public universities in the country.  This year, 30 years later, nonresidents at U.C. pay $35,800 (1150% of what my wife paid as a nonresident) while resident tuition is now $12,900 (1500% of what she paid as a resident).

I have a kid who's going to start college in 2 years.  I'm really not liking these numbers at all.  Especially since she's more interested in certain private schools, whose tuition rates make even those sound dirt cheap by comparison.


Believe it or not, "Fees" are what you want to be paying, not "tuition".

Tuition means they take their money and use it for whatever they want to, even if it is completely unrelated to your coursework.  New sports stadium, new dormatory, etc.  All can use Tuition money.

Fees are supposed to be directly related to the costs of providing the actual education.

This rant is about that kind of thing.
http://www.calfac.org/news-release/cfa-statement-fees-vs-tuition
 
2014-04-02 03:18:58 PM  
When my wife applied was applying to vet school a decade or so ago, she applied to the top 4 schools and was accepted to all 4.  She picked Cornell.  When she picked it, Cornell being slightly more expensive was a negative, but we went there anyway.
Between accepting and her first year starting, tuition went up substantially.  By the time she graduated, the per-year cost had more than doubled.
Craziness.
 
2014-04-02 03:19:34 PM  

Headso: Sure, that might create an awful situation where people in areas with lower costs of living might actually have discretionary spending but I'd be willing to take that risk so that people in more expensive areas are covered.


Great. So that takes us to who will be better enabled  to provide those jobs. And of course those that were making that already won't settle for suddenly making what the new guys are  coming in at. How do you accommodate them?
 
2014-04-02 03:19:52 PM  
I love how all the liberals who hate Big Business ran at light speed (seriously, all I saw was a lightning bolt, kinda like the Flash) to defend college professors making 100k a year.  Very principled.
 
2014-04-02 03:21:03 PM  

ph0rk: That about right?


Not really. More like if you cannot perform at a level that demands more than minimum wage, you are probably not college material either.
 
2014-04-02 03:21:47 PM  

what_now: You've just graduated from HS, where presumably, you lived with your parents. Now you're going to college. How would you propose that we "prove" that the parents won't support the student any longer?


I don't know, make a system showing bank records, rental records, etc. or some such to prove it.  Obviously any system can be scammed, but if you are offering aid to adults it should not be predicated on their parents income because the system is a bit more difficult to implement.

Or just eliminate grants altogether and make student loans dischargable through bankruptcy - make kids pay their own way but give them an out.   It's the same mentality banks were giving me and my other friends tens of thousands of dollars of credit when we were 18 or 19 and the risk seemed okay for them.
 
2014-04-02 03:21:50 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Headso: Sure, that might create an awful situation where people in areas with lower costs of living might actually have discretionary spending but I'd be willing to take that risk so that people in more expensive areas are covered.

Great. So that takes us to who will be better enabled  to provide those jobs. And of course those that were making that already won't settle for suddenly making what the new guys are  coming in at. How do you accommodate them?


heh, now you're concerned with how people might react to their coworkers being paid too well? I assume if they haven't cut the heads off the Walton family by now they'll get over it.
 
2014-04-02 03:22:19 PM  

SunsetLament: I love how all the liberals who hate Big Business ran at light speed (seriously, all I saw was a lightning bolt, kinda like the Flash) to defend college professors making 100k a year.  Very principled.


This irritates me as well.

It's bullshiat that businesses are now asking for a bachelors or masters degree for entry level positions.  That is true.

Businesses aren't setting tuition rates though.
 
2014-04-02 03:22:38 PM  
http://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator

somewhat relative and/or slightly informative to the conversation
 
2014-04-02 03:24:26 PM  
I went to a state school 15 years ago. Worked 35-40/week for 10/hr under the table. I still had to take out on of loans. I did live off campus in an apartment and owned a car so couldn't complain. Hey, going to school costs money and without mommy and daddy paying your way, you need to go into a bit of dept. Much better debt than buying a house above your means or getting married.
 
2014-04-02 03:24:37 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Dr Dreidel: So can I expect your support for a $15 minimum wage?

Dancin_In_Anson: Ok...I would assume that this would be a blanket federal benchmark


Hard to get more "Federal" than DC, bub.

// though I'm not sure what your point is
 
2014-04-02 03:26:06 PM  

AngryDragon: SunsetLament: I love how all the liberals who hate Big Business ran at light speed (seriously, all I saw was a lightning bolt, kinda like the Flash) to defend college professors making 100k a year. Very principled.

This irritates me as well.


yeah, liberals defending middle class incomes makes me want to smash something.
 
2014-04-02 03:26:19 PM  

Headso: heh, now you're concerned with how people might react to their coworkers being paid too well?


No so fast bucko. You seem to think that the feds are just going to say "$15.00/hour is the new minimum wage" and there will be no result other that rainbow farting unicorns and that there will be a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.
 
2014-04-02 03:27:11 PM  

Aar1012: Impossible, I was reassured by a Fark Engineer that if he could work 40 hours a week at $5.50/hr, take a full class load, and drink, smoke pot, and Fark every night then someone could easily do that today.


Fark electrical engineer here. I worked as a waiter/bartender. I earned a bit more than minimum wage and graduated in 4 with no debt. I had exactly 20$ in my checking account after paying for my last semester. What's funny is college is a lot more affordable if you actually try your whole life and get scholarships and a real degree that you can leverage. And I did drink and party while in a private university. It's not hard to be boot strappy if you have motivation and don't make poor life choices. If you do it's easy to complain about how hard life is though, this thread is evidence of that.
 
2014-04-02 03:27:20 PM  

SunsetLament: I love how all the liberals who hate Big Business ran at light speed (seriously, all I saw was a lightning bolt, kinda like the Flash) to defend college professors making 100k a year.  Very principled.


100K a year?   Wow, thats practically Bill Gates money, sharpen the guillotine.
 
2014-04-02 03:27:45 PM  
CSB:

I was an idiot out of high school:  My parent wanted me to get a college education.  I, being 18, knew my vast wealth of brains, coupled with me innate understanding of the world would surely be all I would need to truly succeed - yet my parents insisted I at least go to the local college to get my generals under my belt, and, depending on my GPA - I could then transfer to the school of my choice to pursue whatever I decided was right for me.  But, as long as I maintained a decent GPA and stuff, they would pay for my tuition/books, etc.  My dad also wanted me to have a part time job, but said if it interfered with my studies, he would pay for my other expenses...feeling the education HE never got was something his daughter wasn't going to miss out on.

Well - two years and a lack of desire really didn't help much in terms of forging a successful college career:  My GPA, coupled with my tendancy to skip the classes, I learned, most instructors never gave a shiat if I actually showed up for, meant my Dad pulled the plug on the funding. (His exact words:  If I had a stock that was performing this shiatty, I wouldn't dare keep my money in it.)  That's OK - I was 20!  I KNEW IT ALL!

Two years of working shiat jobs was far enough time for me to realize that I did not, in fact, know it all, and I would need a degree if I ever wanted any hope of having a wider variety of choices, vocationally speaking.  I approached my Dad with my desire to return to the academic career - he was very frank:  I blew my one shot at a free ride - however, as long as I came up with the funding, he would give me a roof over my head while I got a degree, and, as long as I continued to work towards that and not screw around...he would let me move in and not ask for rent/utilities.  But I had to pay for it.

Suffice to say, three jobs while going to school full time, (Got real lucky with my part time jobs - helped augment my education with experience in my, at the time, chosen field.) AND student loans/scholarships/pell grants (Had to retake several of my previous courses to get those shiatty grades off my GPA), taught me more than the initial free ride ever could have.  While I'm still kicking myself for not capitalizing on the original opportunity my parents were more than willing to hand to me and I pissed all over - I still learned a valuable lesson once I actually GOT my degree, and managed to value the accomplishment.

I can't imagine being a parent today and having to cover the tuition costs - would scare the bejesus out of me.  But, also - before you actually send your kid off to learn...make damned sure they are actually ready to take on the responsibility they will need to actually get the education.  That investment is too freakin huge now, and I can't imagine how rage-filled my 'rents woulda been had they had to pay today's tuition prices for their daughter to initially just flunk out because she wasn't ready to do her part.
 
2014-04-02 03:28:22 PM  
Here's a quote from an AP story from today.

"belonging to the middle class occupies a cherished place in America. It conjures images of self-sufficient people with stable jobs and pleasant homes working toward prosperity.

Yet nearly five years after the Great Recession ended, more people are coming to the painful realization that they're no longer part of it...."  - C Rugaber

So if you think you are going to 'work you way through college' in todays world you better pick a really really cheap and small school.    Other wise you are going to be paying off big loans for decades.

....and as soon as you graduate they want you to sign up for healthcare and pay more money even though you are healthy and rarely go to a doctor.

I say study law and figure out the best time and way to declare bankrupcy.
 
2014-04-02 03:28:38 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Hard to get more "Federal" than DC, bub.

// though I'm not sure what your point is


In smaller communities...let's use for example a small town in Midwest Texas that has a population of about 2400...how many employers do you assume there are that will be able to absorb this kind of increase in labor cost?
 
2014-04-02 03:30:37 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Headso: heh, now you're concerned with how people might react to their coworkers being paid too well?

No so fast bucko. You seem to think that the feds are just going to say "$15.00/hour is the new minimum wage" and there will be no result other that rainbow farting unicorns and that there will be a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.


No I think the economy will collapse like every other time we forced companies to pay more with a minimum wage hike.
 
2014-04-02 03:30:43 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: What's funny is college is a lot more affordable if you actually try your whole life and get scholarships and a real degree that you can leverage.


Whoa there buddy, don't start throwing around ideas like that. This is about the rest of the world owing you something, not what you can do for yourself.
 
2014-04-02 03:31:17 PM  

lilplatinum: what_now: lilplatinum: 18 year olds are adults in the eyes of law the law, why should their need be gauged by their farking parents income if their parents are not giving it to them?

Ok.

Let's do that. Let's give Pell Grants based on the income of an 18 year old.

That kid who worked two jobs in school to help pay the rent? He's too rich for a grant.
The kid who's never worked a day in his life? Well, he's below the poverty line. Free money for him!!

Kids certainly shouldn't be penalized for working themselves and saving, if it can be proven that the amount saved is obtainable with the W-2s of that kid's work history (up to point x or whatever), he should still qualify.

Similarly, a legal adult can prove they are not getting income from their parents, they should qualify just like anyone else who has a similar lack of income.   It's no more his fault he has parents who are unwilling to support him than it is someone who has parents who are unable to support them.

In reality it should be like Europe where university is free and for those who actually should go to university, and we should have trade schools for many, many more subjects so they just aren't for retards who can't read.


If you think you are in the grey area between gen x and gen y, it's about 99% certain that you are gen y.
 
2014-04-02 03:32:22 PM  

Headso: AngryDragon: SunsetLament: I love how all the liberals who hate Big Business ran at light speed (seriously, all I saw was a lightning bolt, kinda like the Flash) to defend college professors making 100k a year. Very principled.

This irritates me as well.

yeah, liberals defending middle class incomes makes me want to smash something.


Thanks for taking that out of context by the way, douchebag.  here's the rest again:

It's bullshiat that businesses are now asking for a bachelors or masters degree for entry level positions.  That is true.

Businesses aren't setting tuition rates though.
 
2014-04-02 03:32:28 PM  

SunsetLament: I love how all the liberals who hate Big Business ran at light speed (seriously, all I saw was a lightning bolt, kinda like the Flash) to defend college professors making 100k a year.  Very principled.


While I get that the "old regime" has in some ways earned this perception, things are changing immensely.  I had the parents who claimed me as a dependent but wouldn't give a dime towards my college (said I should have gotten a full ride, and even went so far as to make me pay for my classes at the school my mom worked at, then took the refund checks as "rent").  I busted my butt, worked full time though a BA and MA (took while-was in business working 50+ hours) and when I finally realized I'd rather be dirt broke than work with noting contributed to society, made $19k my first year teaching as an adjunct.  I usually picked up 5-7 classes each regular semester, and 4 in the summer.  With the new health care laws, schools are now frequently relying on up to 80% adjunct labor, so chances are, if someone teaches college, they are not making anywhere near $100k.  When I finally secured a full time position, making $43k, I taught 5 classes each semester, plus 5 hours/week committee work, plus 5 hours/week meeting/office hours, plus got to prep for 3 different courses and grade 120 essays every 3-4 weeks (taking roughly 25 minutes per essay).  Granted, I seem to care more than my more senior colleagues, who can't believe I actually take the time to offer annotations, rubrics, and recorded mini-lectures for each student in response to those essays.

Obviously there are outliers, but people teaching college who are starting their careers now are definitely not people to be jealous of or angry with.
 
2014-04-02 03:32:36 PM  
i worked for my college IT all through school - paid my own way (I also lived 3 miles from campus and was a townie)
 
2014-04-02 03:33:45 PM  

thamike: phaseolus: Hell, that's exactly what I did for the first couple years. Lived at home, took the city bus to school, tuition was $400-600ish per semester and books for 5 or 6 classes cost a total of $150 which seemed really outrageous at the time. Working 20 hours a week in the UWM union snack bar paid for it all.

When I got an engineering co-op job and a teaching assistant gig for the Materials Science 301 lab life was even better.

What were the city buses like in 1972?


New.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-04-02 03:34:18 PM  

ManRay: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: What's funny is college is a lot more affordable if you actually try your whole life and get scholarships and a real degree that you can leverage.

Whoa there buddy, don't start throwing around ideas like that. This is about the rest of the world owing you something, not what you can do for yourself.


Sorry... this is a bullshiat argument to anyone that lives outside the corporate bubble.  Literature, for instance, is worth study... what has happened is that a lot of people don't find value in anything that doesn't make them cash.  And the entitlement argument can be seen as a backwards form of projection.  Just because something doesn't make a corporation a wad of cash doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.  There are things worth subsidizing because it makes society a better place to live in.
 
2014-04-02 03:34:34 PM  

AngryDragon: Headso: AngryDragon: SunsetLament: I love how all the liberals who hate Big Business ran at light speed (seriously, all I saw was a lightning bolt, kinda like the Flash) to defend college professors making 100k a year. Very principled.

This irritates me as well.

yeah, liberals defending middle class incomes makes me want to smash something.

Thanks for taking that out of context by the way, douchebag.  here's the rest again:

It's bullshiat that businesses are now asking for a bachelors or masters degree for entry level positions.  That is true.

Businesses aren't setting tuition rates though.


I didn't have a problem with the rest of your post, just the part where you and the other tard were irritated about people defending a professor being paid a middle class income.
 
2014-04-02 03:35:15 PM  

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: Obviously there are outliers, but people teaching college who are starting their careers now are definitely not people to be jealous of or angry with


Fair enough.  So exactly where the hell is all that money going?
 
2014-04-02 03:35:23 PM  

Headso: Dancin_In_Anson: Headso: heh, now you're concerned with how people might react to their coworkers being paid too well?

No so fast bucko. You seem to think that the feds are just going to say "$15.00/hour is the new minimum wage" and there will be no result other that rainbow farting unicorns and that there will be a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.

No I think the economy will collapse like every other time we forced companies to pay more with a minimum wage hike.


Hmm, citation?
 
2014-04-02 03:35:35 PM  
(Sorry for the typos-wasn't using voice-to-text and nerve damage will do that)
 
2014-04-02 03:35:41 PM  

johnny_vegas: Tigger: Does he think that college professors just teach undergrad? That's pretty impressive seeing how that's the opposite of how college has worked for give or take 1,000 years.

so now dinosaurs went to college???


With Jesus
 
2014-04-02 03:35:48 PM  

redmid17: If you think you are in the grey area between gen x and gen y, it's about 99% certain that you are gen y.


It's a grey area because it's defined differently.  I'm 81, so I still remember the 80s well and grew up with GI Joe and Mask and Transformers and all that shiat (especially as my brother was 4 years older and firmly generation x).   I also remember a pre-internet time (I was a little nerd and ran a BBS in middle school).   But on the other hand I did have a computer my whole life, not sure where that places me.
 
2014-04-02 03:36:01 PM  

d23: ManRay: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: What's funny is college is a lot more affordable if you actually try your whole life and get scholarships and a real degree that you can leverage.

Whoa there buddy, don't start throwing around ideas like that. This is about the rest of the world owing you something, not what you can do for yourself.

Sorry... this is a bullshiat argument to anyone that lives outside the corporate bubble.  Literature, for instance, is worth study... what has happened is that a lot of people don't find value in anything that doesn't make them cash.  And the entitlement argument can be seen as a backwards form of projection.  Just because something doesn't make a corporation a wad of cash doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.  There are things worth subsidizing because it makes society a better place to live in.


Ironically enough people that get a college degree are much less likely to become right wing authoritarians.....
 
2014-04-02 03:37:34 PM  
Tuition is so high nowadays you have to do porn to pay it.
www.mediafire.com
 
2014-04-02 03:37:59 PM  

Headso: Dancin_In_Anson: Headso: heh, now you're concerned with how people might react to their coworkers being paid too well?

No so fast bucko. You seem to think that the feds are just going to say "$15.00/hour is the new minimum wage" and there will be no result other that rainbow farting unicorns and that there will be a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.

No I think the economy will collapse like every other time we forced companies to pay more with a minimum wage hike.



i.chzbgr.com
 
2014-04-02 03:38:31 PM  

Headso: No I think the economy will collapse like every other time we forced companies to pay more with a minimum wage hike.


When was the last time the wage more than doubled in one fell swoop?
 
2014-04-02 03:39:23 PM  

d23: Sorry... this is a bullshiat argument to anyone that lives outside the corporate bubble.  Literature, for instance, is worth study... what has happened is that a lot of people don't find value in anything that doesn't make them cash.  And the entitlement argument can be seen as a backwards form of projection.  Just because something doesn't make a corporation a wad of cash doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.  There are things worth subsidizing because it makes society a better place to live in.


Many liberal arts are worth study, but the problem is that they are packed with a small percentage of people whom are fit to be studying it and who might have a shot at using that knowledge to fulfill some cultural benefit to our society, and the vast majority who are there because a degree is a necessity for employment and it's the path of least resistance since the communications classes filled up.   Until we fix our system to stop just trying to accommodate everyone, not much of an argument to subsidize the latter.
 
2014-04-02 03:40:57 PM  
Thanks, Taftbongo.

If the federal government is going to back federal student loans, guess what happens?
 
2014-04-02 03:41:02 PM  

ginandbacon: Cyberluddite: I'm not sure it's actually possible to work your way though life with a minimum-wage job, let alone through college.

Done in two.


Sure it is. McDonalds proved it. All it takes is working 80 hours a week, having no money for heat or a/c and eating for under $20/week and you are sorted and can save $100 a month for emergencies or healthcare.
 
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