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(The New Yorker)   Libertarian PD, "We're going to figure out who did this and we're going to take them down... provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so"   (newyorker.com) divider line 202
    More: Hero, law enforcements, the police, Penn Jillette, political freedom  
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4104 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Apr 2014 at 3:21 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



202 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-01 02:25:51 PM
Or, just read Jennifer Government by Max Barry...
 
2014-04-01 02:35:58 PM
The comments are great. I had no idea libertarians were such a serious bunch.
 
2014-04-01 02:37:09 PM
Imagine if you had to pay to have roid raging thugs to come to your house to beat up your mentally ill family members. Or if instead of getting your car broken into and the police having you fill out a report so they can throw it in the garbage you have to pay the police for that service!! Libertarianism is fancy ladic but telling me there will be less police presence is no way to illustrate it, you might leave me supporting it instead.
 
2014-04-01 02:42:15 PM
Don't cops get paid a fair market rate?
 
2014-04-01 02:43:36 PM
That was totally awesome.

"Easy, chief," I said, "Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair."

Gold, Jerry!!
 
2014-04-01 03:03:07 PM
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by Duke EnergyTM, an unregulated public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy. It should have gone off hours earlier, but an unexpected service interruption had me on the phone, calling around to find a better utility with fewer interruptions. An informed consumer is a happy consumer, right?

I then took a shower in the "clean" water provided by a Duke subsidiary. Looked kind of brownish to me, but no one I know has died yet, so it must be OK. These problems will bear themselves out - why would a water utility provide dirty water to its own customers?

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the channels to compare cubano Bell/NBC's weather forecast with Microsoft/CapitalOne's, and get more opinions from locals using one of the 4 other cable providers (since I don't get their channels). It's good that no one forced me to watch those extra channels. That's why I have friends, so we barter services (like watching the forecasts). I watched this while eating my Fla-ver-lofe, inspected by Cargill Manufacturing, and taking drugs.

The appropriate time, as regulated and kept accurate by my employer, being long past, I get into my Toyota automobile and set out to work on my employer's service roads, possibly stopping to pay a toll at every intersection or purchase additional fuel of an unknown quality level (but again, why would a fuel company sell dangerous things to consumers?), using Bitcoins.

On the way out the door, I deposit any mail I have in one of 16 different mail-carrier slots, and drop the kids off at school (well, one of them. The other 2 have to work in a steel mill to pay for the First's tuition).

After spending another lucky day not being maimed or killed at work, enjoying another two slices of bread (which I bought from the benevolent company) - secretly so the boss doesn't fire me for "slacking off for lunch" - which again do not kill me, I drive my car back home on the toll roads, to my house which has probably not burned down in my absence due to all the asbestos shielding and my own rigorous inspections, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables, thanks to my neighbors, who have a cute little picture hanging on their wall that looks just like the one I used to have.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was made neutral thanks to the foreward-thinking of Comcast/NBCU -- and post on whatever sites I can still visit about how LIBERTARIANISM is AWESOME because I'm a self-supported person.
 
2014-04-01 03:11:38 PM

Necessary: Or, just read Jennifer Government by Max Barry...


Which is increasingly more accurate, but not because of a free market.  What we have is crony capitalism where lobbyists write laws that favor them and exclude competition.  The US is far from a free market.
 
2014-04-01 03:24:51 PM

Necessary: Or, just read Jennifer Government by Max Barry...

 
2014-04-01 03:25:51 PM

slayer199: Necessary: Or, just read Jennifer Government by Max Barry...

Which is increasingly more accurate, but not because of a free market.  What we have is crony capitalism where lobbyists write laws that favor them and exclude competition.  The US is far from a free market.


Anywhere is far from a free market. Because free markets don't exist.
 
2014-04-01 03:26:25 PM
That was amusing enough.
 
2014-04-01 03:28:06 PM
Poor people don't have anything worth stealing anyway, so it all works out.
 
2014-04-01 03:28:29 PM

Burning_Monk: Anywhere is far from a free market. Because free markets don't exist.


Free markets do exist.  In Somalia.  It would truly be a Libertarian paradise on Earth if not for those ethnic types everywhere.
 
2014-04-01 03:28:49 PM

Necessary: Or, just read Jennifer Government by Max Barry...


I was going to suggest
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-01 03:29:27 PM
it's sad that what passes fir libertarian is really just free-market anarchy
 
2014-04-01 03:30:14 PM
popcorn.gif
 
2014-04-01 03:30:32 PM
While there is a small subsect of libertarian thought that would advocate for a free market police force, the majority do accept a publicly funded police force to guarantee property rights.  But y'all knew that but are still going to point and laugh at the objectivist characture of internet libertarianism.
 
2014-04-01 03:32:11 PM
I saw this movie already. Not great, but it would kill part of a lazy Saturday afternoon.

www.movieguide.org
 
2014-04-01 03:32:25 PM

Burning_Monk: Anywhere is far from a free market. Because free markets don't exist.


People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public.
-Adam Smith
 
2014-04-01 03:32:57 PM

slayer199: Necessary: Or, just read Jennifer Government by Max Barry...

Which is increasingly more accurate, but not because of a free market.  What we have is crony capitalism where lobbyists write laws that favor them and exclude competition.  The US is far from a free market.


Well, as long as we're turning this into a book thread, what do you think about Lawrence Lessig's "Republic, Lost?"

Dismantling crony capitalism and electoral corruption should be the one issue that can unify Libertarians. Teapartisans, #Occupiers, and pretty much the American public as a whole. For some reason we don't talk about it much, though...
 
2014-04-01 03:33:29 PM

rumpelstiltskin: The comments are great. I had no idea libertarians were such a serious bunch assholes.

 
2014-04-01 03:33:43 PM

Saiga410: While there is a small subsect of libertarian thought that would advocate for a free market police force, the majority do accept a publicly funded police force to guarantee property rights.  But y'all knew that but are still going to point and laugh at the objectivist characture of internet libertarianism.


And the same people foam at the mouth when the Internet tells them what Liberals believe.
 
2014-04-01 03:33:53 PM

Saiga410: the majority do accept a publicly funded police force to guarantee property rights.


Law enforcement is a proper role of government.  That does NOT mean we agree with a lot of laws, just the role of local police and taxes to pay for them.
 
2014-04-01 03:34:54 PM

Hickory-smoked: Dismantling crony capitalism and electoral corruption should be the one issue that can unify Libertarians. Teapartisans, #Occupiers, and pretty much the American public as a whole. For some reason we don't talk about it much, though...


It is because they can see the end game of tearing down the status quo is just a pretext of initiating their own world order.... which differs between the groups.
 
2014-04-01 03:35:13 PM

slayer199: Necessary: Or, just read Jennifer Government by Max Barry...

Which is increasingly more accurate, but not because of a free market.  What we have is crony capitalism where lobbyists write laws that favor them and exclude competition.  The US is far from a free market.


Capitalism is inherently opposed to a free market, since a free market is inefficient for each individual participating
 
2014-04-01 03:35:23 PM

DamnYankees: Don't cops get paid a fair market rate?


No. It is illegal for police to strike or just flat out quit their jobs. (how this one survived the first amendment is beyond me) so the negotiation of vale is slanted by unfair laws
 
2014-04-01 03:35:32 PM
Libertarian PD slogan:

To protect and serve the public 8 hours a day 5 days a week (offer not valid on weekends, "personal" days or holidays, offer not valid to overdue accounts, recipients of services must provide transportation for officers, customers assume all legal responsibility)
 
2014-04-01 03:37:20 PM

rumpelstiltskin: The comments are great. I had no idea libertarians were such a serious bunch.


I sent it to my Libertarian dad for the LULZ
 
2014-04-01 03:37:30 PM

Warlordtrooper: how this one survived the first amendment is beyond me


Praticality. The other option leads quickly to extortion and the police force becoming little better than an organized crime unit
 
2014-04-01 03:37:35 PM
Hasn't this already been done?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-01 03:37:36 PM
It had a couple funny lines but was otherwise trying way too hard.
 
2014-04-01 03:37:46 PM
"Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®" I yelled.

I laughed
 
2014-04-01 03:39:31 PM

Warlordtrooper: No. It is illegal for police to strike or just flat out quit their jobs. (how this one survived the first amendment is beyond me) so the negotiation of vale is slanted by unfair laws


What could go wrong?

cdn-static.denofgeek.com
 
2014-04-01 03:39:59 PM
slayer199:

Law enforcement is a proper role of government.  That does NOT mean we agree with a lot of laws, just the role of local police and taxes to pay for them.

But I've been told that any taxes are an implied gun against your head.  Because you're forced to pay for them.
 
2014-04-01 03:40:19 PM
Thanks Taft.

Why do liberals hate the free market, why won't they try a Venn diagram?
 
2014-04-01 03:40:58 PM
Jeeeeez. What would be the fair market price to stop the New Yorker trying to be funny? Between that, Borowitz and their cartoons, I dunno what's worse.
 
2014-04-01 03:41:23 PM

JusticeandIndependence: "Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®" I yelled.

I laughed


Yeah, the sponsorship stuff was the best part. Some of it was a little contrived and overdone, but I got a kick out of it overall.
 
2014-04-01 03:42:16 PM

bk3k: Burning_Monk: Anywhere is far from a free market. Because free markets don't exist.

Free markets do exist.  In Somalia.  It would truly be a Libertarian paradise on Earth if not for those ethnic types everywhere.


Actually, free markets do not and cannot exist is a place like Somalia, because there are no private property rights in Somalia.  Even the linked parody article understands that you can't have a free marker or a free society without private property rights.  ("Don't you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?" ).  So other than being completely wrong, you're doing quite well.

Moreover, some of the things the article (and Fark comments) try to mock by painting a "free market" version of, are already the way they are because of free markets.  I don't have to put a coin in my gun to fire it, or in my radio to use it, or in my sirens to turn them on.  There's no law or regulation requiring that.  It's simply what the free market has produced.

Law enforcement salaries, despite being set by elected officials, are still determined largely by market forces.  Governments determine what they're willing to pay, and that salary attracts people who are willing to enforce the laws for that pay rate.  Unsurprisingly, municipalities who underpay their police have poor forces and high turnover.   They lose cases and prosecutions as a result.  Agencies that pay better get officers with better qualifications and have lower turnover, leading to fewer problems.  Cities and agencies that pay too much to law enforcement suffer service problems in other areas.

Police don't need to be paid on a case by case basis, because they already have a duty to work based on their employment contract (which in most cases is a negotiated contract between a union and an employer, reflecting the competing priorities of both).

Finally, even within libertarians circles there isn't much desire to privatize the police force.  There is a difference between anarchists (or minarchists) and libertarians.  There is a difference between a society based on strong protections of personal property, life, and liberty (libertarians) and one based on a complete lack of rules or regulations (anarchy).  Confusing the two is either ignorant or a straw man, or most often some combination of the two.
 
2014-04-01 03:43:05 PM
"Sir, a warrant has been purchased for your arrest. Do you wish to outbid?"
 
2014-04-01 03:43:05 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Jeeeeez. What would be the fair market price to stop the New Yorker trying to be funny? Between that, Borowitz and their cartoons, I dunno what's worse.


violentsalvation: It had a couple funny lines but was otherwise trying way too hard.


craigmcn.ca

Thanks Taft
 
2014-04-01 03:43:45 PM

Saiga410: While there is a small subsect of libertarian thought that would advocate for a free market police force, the majority do accept a publicly funded police force to guarantee property rights.


I've known libertarians who advocated for private police forces. This doesn't represent "mainstream" libertarian thought (which today seems to be "I'm not a Republican, I'm a....a....a.... libertarian?"), but it's hardly a false flag argument.
 
2014-04-01 03:43:50 PM
I realize it was making a point but Idiocracy did it better.
 
2014-04-01 03:45:16 PM

Necessary: Or, just read Jennifer Government by Max Barry...


Damnit, done in 1.
 
2014-04-01 03:46:27 PM

Maud Dib: rumpelstiltskin: The comments are great. I had no idea libertarians were such a serious bunch assholes.


the fundamental tenet of libertarianism is, "let's make out, i've got mine." that makes all libertarians assholes, by definition.
 
2014-04-01 03:47:10 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Saiga410: While there is a small subsect of libertarian thought that would advocate for a free market police force, the majority do accept a publicly funded police force to guarantee property rights.

I've known libertarians who advocated for private police forces. This doesn't represent "mainstream" libertarian thought (which today seems to be "I'm not a Republican, I'm a....a....a.... libertarian?"), but it's hardly a false flag argument.


Yup, I've seen this too.  As well as suggesting rather than police, the community would team up for citizen patrols.  People would volunteer for shifts they could work, and if they didn't the local community patrol wouldn't help them.
 
2014-04-01 03:47:19 PM

rumpelstiltskin: The comments are great. I had no idea libertarians were such a serious bunch.


They are quite entertaining in their comments aren't they?  It's their fault though; they sold their souls to the GOP & the Tea Party in order to gain a semblance of a major political party, and turned themselves into a refuge for all the anti-government extremist weirdos the right wing has to offer.  It has also turned into a "stepping stone" for mid tier politicians wanting to be major players in the GOP like Rand Paul.
 
2014-04-01 03:47:31 PM

FlashHarry: "let's make out, i've got mine.


ha! newly discovered Love a Marsupial Day filtwned
 
2014-04-01 03:48:48 PM

heavymetal: rumpelstiltskin: The comments are great. I had no idea libertarians were such a serious bunch.

They are quite entertaining in their comments aren't they?  It's their fault though; they sold their souls to the GOP & the Tea Party in order to gain a semblance of a major political party, and turned themselves into a refuge for all the anti-government extremist weirdos the right wing has to offer.  It has also turned into a "stepping stone" for mid tier politicians wanting to be major players in the GOP like Rand Paul.


As well as a haven for Republicans who lose a primary, like Gary Johnson.
 
2014-04-01 03:49:27 PM

Talondel: bk3k: Burning_Monk: Anywhere is far from a free market. Because free markets don't exist.

Free markets do exist. In Somalia. It would truly be a Libertarian paradise on Earth if not for those ethnic types everywhere.

Actually, free markets do not and cannot exist is a place like Somalia, because there are no private property rights in Somalia. Even the linked parody article understands that you can't have a free marker or a free society without private property rights. ("Don't you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?" ).


Waitasec...are you seriously suggesting that a strong government is necessary to enforce property rights? Get the fark out of here!
 
2014-04-01 03:50:07 PM

qorkfiend: As well as a haven for Republicans who lose a primary, like Gary Johnson.


He won the vote in a landslide in Rock Ridge.
 
2014-04-01 03:51:14 PM

rumpelstiltskin: The comments are great. I had no idea libertarians were such a serious bunch.


Dude everything an Aspergers case does is farking serious, especially joking
 
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