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(Think Progress)   A college degree just isn't what it used to be, at least for these half million college graduates   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 134
    More: Scary, college graduate, academic degrees, bachelor's degrees, minimum wages  
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7784 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Mar 2014 at 6:47 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-31 06:10:47 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-31 06:27:24 PM
sure, i'd love some fries with that.
 
2014-03-31 06:48:58 PM
Truck school, dumbasses.
 
2014-03-31 06:49:53 PM
BS is the new high school diploma.
 
2014-03-31 06:50:03 PM
We should have universal healthcare and universal education. If you aren't getting a post-secondary degree, it shouldn't be because you can't afford it.
 
2014-03-31 06:50:46 PM
Is it the quality of the degree that has changed, or the quality of the people earning the degree?
 
2014-03-31 06:51:01 PM
the world needs jizz moppers who can write essays about medieval poetry.
 
2014-03-31 06:51:35 PM
I hope those 1/2 million people don't feel too lonely. Look at it this way, there are probably another 1 - 5 million who make more than minimum wage, but by the time you factor in student loan payments, their effective take home income is far lower.
 
2014-03-31 06:52:22 PM
Did everyone forget that a degree only helps you earn money if it shows that you know how to do something that people with money want done?
 
2014-03-31 06:53:20 PM
We could try collectively murdering about half of human resources - the ones who get management inspiration from other corporate drones. I bet that would solve most of these issues
 
2014-03-31 06:53:24 PM
Yesterday, i saw a federal job opening for an executive secretary. They required applicants to be two years into their doctoral studies.
 
2014-03-31 06:53:55 PM
I cant wait for the "Everyone should be an engineer" and "Education is for suckers just drop out and start your own IT company" people to show up.
 
2014-03-31 06:54:07 PM
Education and employment are not directly related to one another. Taking classes for a set interval of time does not entitle you to a job. You're paying for access to information and expertise, nothing more.
 
2014-03-31 06:54:36 PM

JesseL: Did everyone forget that a degree only helps you earn money if it shows that you know how to do something that people with money want done?




Your forgetting those government jobs that employ lots of Ph.d's.
 
2014-03-31 06:55:22 PM
I've been there, degree in hand and only able to get work as a hotel front desk clerk

All I can say apply, apply, apply, and if all else fails take temp work as a phone jockey at a help desk at least a little bit related to what you do, even if only tangentially related to your chosen field of study.

Also, apply.
 
2014-03-31 06:58:03 PM
Well, duh. And it's sad, because in a great number of areas, a degree is less useful than experience and subject matter technical training/certification, but because the market is based on outdated practices of using degrees as symbols of knowledge over education, many of the best folks in many areas are overlooked or forced out.

I think that our country would be very much better off if vocational training was the norm, with job-related skills being the focus of the coursework along with basic topical necessities, rather than the approach we take now. General Ed could be offered as ongoing pursuits rather than necessities to get a gilded piece of paper and lining a university's wallet.

Frankly, I think I'd like my doctor to be the best and receive the best training possible to become a doctor. I don't think he needs to be proficient in world history or advanced calculus to do his job.

Academic degrees for such things as physics, mathematics, etc would still be offered, and because those types of degrees greatly benefit the advancement of society, would be offered free to those who showed the interest and aptitude to go into those types of programs.
 
2014-03-31 06:59:01 PM

meat0918: I've been there, degree in hand and only able to get work as a hotel front desk clerk

All I can say apply, apply, apply, and if all else fails take temp work as a phone jockey at a help desk at least a little bit related to what you do, even if only tangentially related to your chosen field of study.

Also, apply.


Door to door vacuum salesman, community college book store clerk, garbageman, and laughed out of Target while asking for night shift job.  Did all the shiat before things came into focus.

/Graduated in 2008
 
2014-03-31 06:59:12 PM

WordyGrrl: Yesterday, i saw a federal job opening for an executive secretary. They required applicants to be two years into their doctoral studies.


Holy.Crap.

Most people I know, including myself, either never worked in the field they went to college for or it took them 8 or more years to get there.

Was in college in the early 70s - at least then it didn't bankrupt us, and a lot got thru on the GI Bill.
 
2014-03-31 07:00:52 PM
Oh, the humanities!

/I hope they took a few unpaid internships to prepare them for those unpaid jobs.
 
2014-03-31 07:01:15 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Truck school, dumbasses.


Robotic, GPS controlled trucks within the next decade, dumbass.
 
2014-03-31 07:02:50 PM
Go talk to your Messiah (Obama) about that.  He's had the economy since '08.  You can't blame Bush forever, although I know you will.  fark you libs.
 
2014-03-31 07:03:08 PM

imgod2u: BS is the new high school diploma.


This. Use college degrees to sort out candidates, system grows up  hand out college degrees, companies now use higher degree levels.  It's farking retarded. With rare exceptions, for most jobs, if you have the proven knowledge and skill and are the right fit, they should consider you. Don't have the experience? Vocational training programs could be set up to partner students with companies to give students training and experience, in exchange for favorable consideration for jobs.
 
2014-03-31 07:04:28 PM
thinkprogress.org

The 110K payout explains why this greasy broad can't afford shampoo.
 
2014-03-31 07:07:39 PM

CaliNJGuy: Go talk to your Messiah (Obama) about that.  He's had the economy since '08.  You can't blame Bush forever, although I know you will.  fark you libs.


www.strangecosmos.com

/He became President on January 20th, 2009.
 
2014-03-31 07:07:52 PM

Kit Fister: Frankly, I think I'd like my doctor to be the best and receive the best training possible to become a doctor. I don't think he needs to be proficient in world history or advanced calculus to do his job.


I'd just like to point out that virtually no college graduates are proficient in "advanced calculus."

The only people who take advanced calculus are math majors, and maybe physics majors.  Even engineers typically only take regular and multivariable calc, and don't learn how to prove things.

And for that matter, a gen-ed course in history doesn't make you "proficient" in history.
 
2014-03-31 07:09:25 PM
What?

You got your degree in 16th century Italian poetry.  You are highly qualified to say "Grande" and "Venti".  What's the issue?
 
2014-03-31 07:10:03 PM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: JesseL: Did everyone forget that a degree only helps you earn money if it shows that you know how to do something that people with money want done?

Your forgetting those government jobs that employ lots of Ph.d's.


No, that still fits within my criteria. The government has money and wants some of those people. 

There are only so many of those positions that any economy needs or can support though.
 
2014-03-31 07:10:04 PM

Gunny Highway: meat0918: I've been there, degree in hand and only able to get work as a hotel front desk clerk

All I can say apply, apply, apply, and if all else fails take temp work as a phone jockey at a help desk at least a little bit related to what you do, even if only tangentially related to your chosen field of study.

Also, apply.

Door to door vacuum salesman, community college book store clerk, garbageman, and laughed out of Target while asking for night shift job.  Did all the shiat before things came into focus.

/Graduated in 2008


I forgot to add Cutco "salesman" during that time.  Desperation sucks and is not conducive to good decision making.

At least I figured out I am not a good knife salesman.

//2005 grad
 
2014-03-31 07:11:50 PM

Gunny Highway: I cant wait for the "Everyone should be an engineer" and "Education is for suckers just drop out and start your own IT company" people to show up.


If those half-million people had gotten STEM degrees, they'd all be banking six figures because that kind of labor pool would in no way shrink wages or available positions, in any way, ever.
 
2014-03-31 07:13:23 PM

lostcat: Is it the quality of the degree that has changed, or the quality of the people earning the degree?


Yes, I believe so.
 
2014-03-31 07:13:50 PM
I was talking to the president of a tech company once about this.  He mentioned that he didn't really think a college degree meant anything in terms of knowledge or skill, but that it was an easy weeding out process.  When you're facing hundreds of applicants for a single position, it just helps to narrow it down a little bit if you can immediately trash all applicants who don't have degrees.  I've also heard from hiring managers that they will look for anything to narrow things down, sometimes it can be relatively minor or arbitrary.  Small things like spelling mistakes are another big thing they look for, but that actually requires them to read the resume, so the degree filtering is an easy first step.
 
2014-03-31 07:16:08 PM

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: [thinkprogress.org image 553x369]

The 110K payout explains why this greasy broad can't afford shampoo.


110K for a college degree?

The average in-state tuition is about $7K, so that adds up to $28K.  Subtract Pell grants and it's something like $20K.  Go to an average in-state school out-of-state and now you're paying twice as much.  Where does $110,000 come from?

I guess you also have to throw in books, which is like $50,000 or however much books cost, and then you have to throw in the cost of living, because you would never have to pay the cost of living if you didn't go to college.   Still, you don't pay that kind of money for college unless you intentionally buy a designer label.
 
2014-03-31 07:16:59 PM

PillsHere: I was talking to the president of a tech company once about this.  He mentioned that he didn't really think a college degree meant anything in terms of knowledge or skill, but that it was an easy weeding out process.  When you're facing hundreds of applicants for a single position, it just helps to narrow it down a little bit if you can immediately trash all applicants who don't have degrees.  I've also heard from hiring managers that they will look for anything to narrow things down, sometimes it can be relatively minor or arbitrary.  Small things like spelling mistakes are another big thing they look for, but that actually requires them to read the resume, so the degree filtering is an easy first step.


Read the resume? Most of time your resume is scanned for keywords by software, and that's it.
 
2014-03-31 07:17:56 PM

CaliNJGuy: Go talk to your Messiah (Obama) about that.  He's had the economy since '08.  You can't blame Bush forever, although I know you will.  fark you libs.


Never heard of congress I guess. And WTF still uses "Messiah"?
 
2014-03-31 07:19:58 PM
My conservative friends tell me the minimum wage is high school pay so I know the article is BS.
 
2014-03-31 07:22:28 PM

lostcat: Is it the quality of the degree that has changed, or the quality of the people earning the degree?


They just need to pull harder on those boot straps, amirite?
 
2014-03-31 07:23:14 PM

CaliNJGuy: Go talk to your Messiah (Obama) about that.  He's had the economy since '08.  You can't blame Bush forever, although I know you will.  fark you libs.


uhm, not that I necessarily like Obama, but you do realize that the President of the United States is, constitutionally, a weak position when it comes to passing laws and such, and that the onus of such laws or programs is fully upon the house and senate to design and pass, and only then for the president to sign and enact as law, right?

Also, you do realize that even in that capacity, government as a whole cannot forcibly create jobs without a major change in the basic structure of the economy, right? Sure, the government can dump tax dollars into infrastructure projects, and hire companies to fill in roles the government cannot do itself, but it is not and should not be the point of employment for the vast majority of people in the US and should only carry personnel necessary to carry out the functions of government.

The onus, then, is on businesses to create more jobs. To do this, ideally, businesses should enjoy favorable taxes and programs which work to ensure that capital is kept within the business to be turned into more staff to increase production.  Two things hurt this model, however. First, the vast increase in automation. By massive increases in efficiency and automation, we have basically severely cut the need for skilled labor in many industries which once carried the brunt of employment. Jobs now require more specialized skill sets and experience than they used to, meaning that a greater number of people due to lack of education, skill, and basic proficiency are left without the ability to obtain employment in these new jobs.

Secondly, outsourcing/off shoring. With the implementation of free trade agreements and the opening of the global markets in a much greater fashion, companies are taking advantage of unbalanced labor costs across member/partner nations in order to ensure the lowest cost of labor is attained. It's common, logical sense: why manufacture in place A where average pay is $10/hr plus ever-increasing benefits, when you can pay $3/hr with no benefits in place b with acceptable build quality?

Of course, we can talk all day long about what is right and good, but bottom line, in any economy, labor is a commodity. You trade your skills and experience for money. If you do not have the appropriate skills or are too expensive, then you won't get hired. No one is obligated to give you a job, and employers are not going to increase their costs substantially just to give people a paycheck.  Reality is that if you want a job, get the education needed to do said job. Want more money? Get knowledge in more rare and valuable subjects and specialize. In the future, it's just going to become more compartmentalized and specialized, with less and less general employment available.
 
2014-03-31 07:24:15 PM

AngryDragon: What?

You got your degree in 16th century Italian poetry.  You are highly qualified to say "Grande" and "Venti".  What's the issue?


THIS

I like you :)
 
2014-03-31 07:25:40 PM

Xcott: Kit Fister: Frankly, I think I'd like my doctor to be the best and receive the best training possible to become a doctor. I don't think he needs to be proficient in world history or advanced calculus to do his job.

I'd just like to point out that virtually no college graduates are proficient in "advanced calculus."

The only people who take advanced calculus are math majors, and maybe physics majors.  Even engineers typically only take regular and multivariable calc, and don't learn how to prove things.

And for that matter, a gen-ed course in history doesn't make you "proficient" in history.


right, my point was specifically that in some cases, education for specific career fields could be a lot more topic-oriented and condensed.
 
2014-03-31 07:27:54 PM

CaliNJGuy: Go talk to your Messiah (Obama) about that.  He's had the economy since '08.  You can't blame Bush forever, although I know you will.  fark you libs.


i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-31 07:36:01 PM

Xcott: Louisiana_Sitar_Club: [thinkprogress.org image 553x369]

The 110K payout explains why this greasy broad can't afford shampoo.

110K for a college degree?

The average in-state tuition is about $7K, so that adds up to $28K.  Subtract Pell grants and it's something like $20K.  Go to an average in-state school out-of-state and now you're paying twice as much.  Where does $110,000 come from?

I guess you also have to throw in books, which is like $50,000 or however much books cost, and then you have to throw in the cost of living, because you would never have to pay the cost of living if you didn't go to college.   Still, you don't pay that kind of money for college unless you intentionally buy a designer label.


People go to private colleges on loans. We usually get a sob story a few times a year where some body racks up $100k+ in student loans getting a degree and then finding out that having a bachelors doesn't automatically land you a job with $100k+ a year starting salary.
 
2014-03-31 07:37:48 PM
I'm going to school part time and I don't know what I should study. I kind of envy people who can stick to a subject for 4 years.  The way I'm going I might end up with a degree in "general studies".
 
2014-03-31 07:38:48 PM
profile.ak.fbcdn.net
Education ain't what it used to be. Ain't what it used to be. Ain't what it used to be.
 
2014-03-31 07:40:04 PM

verbaltoxin: PillsHere: I was talking to the president of a tech company once about this.  He mentioned that he didn't really think a college degree meant anything in terms of knowledge or skill, but that it was an easy weeding out process.  When you're facing hundreds of applicants for a single position, it just helps to narrow it down a little bit if you can immediately trash all applicants who don't have degrees.  I've also heard from hiring managers that they will look for anything to narrow things down, sometimes it can be relatively minor or arbitrary.  Small things like spelling mistakes are another big thing they look for, but that actually requires them to read the resume, so the degree filtering is an easy first step.

Read the resume? Most of time your resume is scanned for keywords by software, and that's it.


I hear this on Fark all the time.  I've been hiring people in the tech industry at the manager and director level for close to 15 years, including for one of the biggest software companies in the world.  I have personally read every resume ever attached to a job I've posted.  If you rely on degrees, typos, or software to filter resumes, you're not going to hire the best possible team.  In tech, that's the only thing that is going to make you successful.
 
2014-03-31 07:41:15 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Truck school, dumbasses.


Actually, truck drivers are going to be automated out of existence in a few years.

mining ops in Australia have already started using drone trucks.
 
2014-03-31 07:42:21 PM
Basket weave under water.  I can do that!
 
2014-03-31 07:50:37 PM

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: lostcat: Is it the quality of the degree that has changed, or the quality of the people earning the degree?

They just need to pull harder on those boot straps, amirite?


Just saying...I don't think anything about the education has changed. Do you think the quality of the education has decreased over the past 20 years?

When I finished school I took a job that had absolutely nothing to do with my area of study. It paid $20k/year (adjust for 2014: $31k/year), or twice minimum wage.

It was actually a job as a "Webmaster." I was able to get it because I spent my free time in school viewing the source code for various Web pages, and teaching myself HTML, then building Websites. This had nothing to do with my area of study (solidly Liberal Arts).

So my question is, what were these 500k graduates studying, and what skills were they developing in their spare time?
 
2014-03-31 07:51:39 PM

CaliNJGuy: Go talk to your Messiah (Obama) about that.  He's had the economy since '08.  You can't blame Bush forever, although I know you will.  fark you libs.


It's totally Bush's fault.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-31 07:53:35 PM

noitsnot: CaliNJGuy: Go talk to your Messiah (Obama) about that.  He's had the economy since '08.  You can't blame Bush forever, although I know you will.  fark you libs.

It's totally Bush's fault.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x400]


Having been a full-grown adult through the Clinton years, and seeing the country finally getting it's financial shiat together, only to belly-flop under eight years of W, I would agree.
 
2014-03-31 07:56:51 PM

lostcat: noitsnot: CaliNJGuy: Go talk to your Messiah (Obama) about that.  He's had the economy since '08.  You can't blame Bush forever, although I know you will.  fark you libs.

It's totally Bush's fault.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x400]

Having been a full-grown adult through the Clinton years, and seeing the country finally getting it's financial shiat together, only to belly-flop under eight years of W, I would agree.


i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

Totally W's fault though.
 
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