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(ValueWalk)   Tesla's six digit locking system is vulnerable to sophisticated hacking, $5 wrenches   (valuewalk.com) divider line 50
    More: Stupid, Tesla Model S, wrenches, locking  
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3240 clicks; posted to Business » on 31 Mar 2014 at 1:18 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-31 11:47:17 AM
What about the drugs?
 
2014-03-31 12:03:08 PM
What a crock. You need the fob to start the car. For someone to hack the lock to just get into the car they would have to guess both your email and your password. And then all they would be able to do is open the door. I'm sure the average smash and grab thief would go through all that just to get you collection of cds.
 
2014-03-31 12:15:46 PM

Dinki: What a crock. You need the fob to start the car. For someone to hack the lock to just get into the car they would have to guess both your email and your password. And then all they would be able to do is open the door. I'm sure the average smash and grab thief would go through all that just to get you collection of cds.


Don't forget the cup full of change that you use for tolls...
 
2014-03-31 12:33:57 PM
And what about OnStar.  that can unlock your car without your knowledge.  Same thing as what they are saying here.

Oh, and many fords have a six digit passcode to open their doors.  Isn't that pretty much the same thing?
 
2014-03-31 12:50:45 PM
which doesn't restrict the number of incorrect login attempts.

Simple fix.
 
2014-03-31 01:27:43 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: which doesn't restrict the number of incorrect login attempts.

Simple fix.


After five attempts the car explodes.
 
2014-03-31 01:34:04 PM
Hey, modmins, let me help you out.

If you see THIS on a page:

i.imgur.com

You can probably just go ahead and not greenlight it and blacklist the entire site, too, and Fark will be a better place.
 
2014-03-31 01:38:47 PM

labman: Oh, and many fords have a six digit passcode to open their doors.  Isn't that pretty much the same thing?


A big difference exists between standing in a parking lot and typing in thousands of codes, and letting your computer do that on the internet while you sleep.
 
2014-03-31 01:44:36 PM

labman: And what about OnStar.  that can unlock your car without your knowledge.  Same thing as what they are saying here.

Oh, and many fords have a six digit passcode to open their doors.  Isn't that pretty much the same thing?


No, because a Ford is a real American car.  A tesla is a car for rich liberals.

Totally different.
 
2014-03-31 01:46:30 PM

thrasherrr: labman: Oh, and many fords have a six digit passcode to open their doors.  Isn't that pretty much the same thing?

A big difference exists between standing in a parking lot and typing in thousands of codes, and letting your computer do that on the internet while you sleep.


Actually, for a 6 digit pass code, the number of permutations would be 106, or 1,000,000.  For a 6 *CHARACTER* password, assuming only letters and numbers, the permutations would be 366, or 2,176,782,336 in number.
 
2014-03-31 01:48:03 PM
Lock only keep honest people honest. If someone wants to steal your car, or what's inside it bad enough, no lock will stop them.

I've had several windows broken on my vehicles over the years, I've finally gotten to where I don't lock my car anymore, I just don't keep anything valuable inside it. I would rather they simply open the door and see there is nothing there worth stealing than to smash a window and find out.
 
2014-03-31 01:52:06 PM
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-03-31 01:53:47 PM

Raider_dad: [imgs.xkcd.com image 448x274]


Done in 12.
 
2014-03-31 01:54:39 PM
Why all the bother, when you can use one of these in less then a minute.
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-31 01:56:48 PM

ReapTheChaos: Lock only keep honest people honest. If someone wants to steal your car, or what's inside it bad enough, no lock will stop them.

I've had several windows broken on my vehicles over the years, I've finally gotten to where I don't lock my car anymore, I just don't keep anything valuable inside it. I would rather they simply open the door and see there is nothing there worth stealing than to smash a window and find out.


WTF do you live?

I've been driving for over 30 years now.  I've *NEVER* had my window smashed by people looking for shiat.  One time my wife left her doors unlocked, and someone pulled the CD's out, but nothing taken (I guess 90's dance music and the Wiggles just aren't popular enough).

Hell, I've got a bunch of expensive-looking ham radios in my car, and the antennas to match, and no one has broken in.
 
2014-03-31 01:58:37 PM

docmattic: Raider_dad: [imgs.xkcd.com image 448x274]

Done in 12. The headline.


FTFY.  And my titties was "what about the drugs?", as in "Drug him and hit him with this $5 wrench..."
 
2014-03-31 02:04:46 PM
So you are saying that a man with significant hacking skills can track down a Tesla and open the door, possibly even starting it, all without my knowledge.

Just like a random car thief can open your GM, Ford, or Chrysler car and start it with a screwdriver?

Oh, wait, they same car thief can also do the same thing to a Tesla?

Idiots' think the real world is secure.  It isn't.   Never has been, never was.
 
2014-03-31 02:07:04 PM

dittybopper: docmattic: Raider_dad: [imgs.xkcd.com image 448x274]

Done in 12. The headline.

FTFY.  And my titties was "what about the drugs?", as in "Drug him and hit him with this $5 wrench..."


Filterpwns always crack me up.

/I wanted to see the actual xkcd strip as I couldn't remember if the wrench price was actually  cited at $5.
 
2014-03-31 02:07:44 PM

tarkin1: So you are saying that a man with significant hacking skills can track down a Tesla and open the door, possibly even starting it, all without my knowledge.

Just like a random car thief can open your GM, Ford, or Chrysler car and start it with a screwdriver?

Oh, wait, they same car thief can also do the same thing to a Tesla?

Idiots' think the real world is secure.  It isn't.   Never has been, never was.


Well, for the extra $70,000 I'd be spending for the Tesla, I'd want a bit more security....
 
2014-03-31 02:09:53 PM

docmattic: dittybopper: docmattic: Raider_dad: [imgs.xkcd.com image 448x274]

Done in 12. The headline.

FTFY.  And my titties was "what about the drugs?", as in "Drug him and hit him with this $5 wrench..."

Filterpwns always crack me up.

/I wanted to see the actual xkcd strip as I couldn't remember if the wrench price was actually  cited at $5.


That wasn't an actual filterpwn.  The real filterpwn would have been "Boobies".  So instead of that I tend to use things like "My titties" or "My areolas" or "My breasteses".
 
2014-03-31 02:15:13 PM

dittybopper: Well, for the extra $70,000 I'd be spending for the Tesla, I'd want a bit more security....


If you are paying 70k for a car - I assume you also own a garage to park it in.
 
2014-03-31 02:47:47 PM

gingerjet: dittybopper: Well, for the extra $70,000 I'd be spending for the Tesla, I'd want a bit more security....

If you are paying 70k for a car - I assume you also own a garage to park it in.


Extra $70,000.  Teslas go for about $100,000+.

Plus, I don't know if you've heard this or not, but common radio waves can penetrate most buildings, and cars sometimes have to be parked in areas where there isn't an enclosed garage.

And if someone is tooling around in a $100K+ car, chances are they've got something better in the glove compartment and console besides a few torn Jimapco maps, a Molly Hatchet CD, and some stale Tic-Tacs.
 
2014-03-31 03:21:10 PM
On my phone, this link is directly above the "iPhone fingerprint hack..." link.
 
2014-03-31 03:36:18 PM

dittybopper: gingerjet: dittybopper: Well, for the extra $70,000 I'd be spending for the Tesla, I'd want a bit more security....

If you are paying 70k for a car - I assume you also own a garage to park it in.

Extra $70,000.  Teslas go for about $100,000+.

Plus, I don't know if you've heard this or not, but common radio waves can penetrate most buildings, and cars sometimes have to be parked in areas where there isn't an enclosed garage.

And if someone is tooling around in a $100K+ car, chances are they've got something better in the glove compartment and console besides a few torn Jimapco maps, a Molly Hatchet CD, and some stale Tic-Tacs.



img.fark.net
 
2014-03-31 03:37:06 PM
Are you required to use 6 characters, or is that just the minimum?
 
2014-03-31 03:41:16 PM

gingerjet: dittybopper: gingerjet: dittybopper: Well, for the extra $70,000 I'd be spending for the Tesla, I'd want a bit more security....

If you are paying 70k for a car - I assume you also own a garage to park it in.

Extra $70,000.  Teslas go for about $100,000+.

Plus, I don't know if you've heard this or not, but common radio waves can penetrate most buildings, and cars sometimes have to be parked in areas where there isn't an enclosed garage.

And if someone is tooling around in a $100K+ car, chances are they've got something better in the glove compartment and console besides a few torn Jimapco maps, a Molly Hatchet CD, and some stale Tic-Tacs.


[img.fark.net image 624x636]


Still more than twice the cost of a $30K Chevy.
 
2014-03-31 04:00:16 PM

dittybopper: Still more than twice the cost of a $30K Chevy.


But then you are stuck with a Chevy.
 
2014-03-31 04:12:45 PM

gingerjet: dittybopper: Still more than twice the cost of a $30K Chevy.

But then you are stuck with a Chevy.


Yeah, but it doesn't take 30 minutes to pump 3 gallons worth of gas into it....
 
2014-03-31 05:24:21 PM

dittybopper: gingerjet: dittybopper: Still more than twice the cost of a $30K Chevy.

But then you are stuck with a Chevy.

Yeah, but it doesn't take 30 minutes to pump 3 gallons worth of gas into it....


But a Chevy is still a driver killing car with non American electronics and labor, despite their slogan...
 
2014-03-31 06:43:50 PM

ReapTheChaos: Lock only keep honest people honest. If someone wants to steal your car, or what's inside it bad enough, no lock will stop them.

I've had several windows broken on my vehicles over the years, I've finally gotten to where I don't lock my car anymore, I just don't keep anything valuable inside it. I would rather they simply open the door and see there is nothing there worth stealing than to smash a window and find out.


This. Good locks lead to smashed windows.  I used this tactic when I used to live in Tampa.  Everything unlocked.  They could open it up and not bother to steal my AM factory radio, or the pennies in the cup holder.

Now, I live in a very rural area in another state.  I don't lock my new car, either.  Nobody steals because somebody that sees it also knows you, or they also carry a gun.  More so than FL.
 
2014-03-31 06:46:36 PM

China White Tea: Hey, modmins, let me help you out.

If you see THIS on a page:



You can probably just go ahead and not greenlight it and blacklist the entire site, too, and Fark will be a better place.


I'm okay with this.
 
2014-03-31 06:48:36 PM

ReapTheChaos: Lock only keep honest people honest. If someone wants to steal your car, or what's inside it bad enough, no lock will stop them.

I've had several windows broken on my vehicles over the years, I've finally gotten to where I don't lock my car anymore, I just don't keep anything valuable inside it. I would rather they simply open the door and see there is nothing there worth stealing than to smash a window and find out.


When I had my window smashed and items stolen out of my car I was more upset about the missing window than the items they stole.
 
2014-03-31 06:52:53 PM

dittybopper: thrasherrr: labman: Oh, and many fords have a six digit passcode to open their doors.  Isn't that pretty much the same thing?

A big difference exists between standing in a parking lot and typing in thousands of codes, and letting your computer do that on the internet while you sleep.


Actually, for a 6 digit pass code, the number of permutations would be 106, or 1,000,000.  For a 6 *CHARACTER* password, assuming only letters and numbers, the permutations would be 366, or 2,176,782,336 in number.


I think you missed my point.  One way involves getting caught because you have to stand there doing it for hours, and the other involves not that.

To complete your thesis, though: most Fords have 5 buttons for 10 digits.  The door has only 5^6 six digit combinations.
 
2014-03-31 06:55:31 PM

dittybopper: ReapTheChaos: Lock only keep honest people honest. If someone wants to steal your car, or what's inside it bad enough, no lock will stop them.

I've had several windows broken on my vehicles over the years, I've finally gotten to where I don't lock my car anymore, I just don't keep anything valuable inside it. I would rather they simply open the door and see there is nothing there worth stealing than to smash a window and find out.

WTF do you live?

I've been driving for over 30 years now.  I've *NEVER* had my window smashed by people looking for shiat.  One time my wife left her doors unlocked, and someone pulled the CD's out, but nothing taken (I guess 90's dance music and the Wiggles just aren't popular enough).

Hell, I've got a bunch of expensive-looking ham radios in my car, and the antennas to match, and no one has broken in.


I have bad luck I guess. Two times they tried to steal the stereo, both times they gave up. (I guess they thought it would just slide out of the dashboard). Another time there was an empty box for an Xbox 360 in the back and I assume that's what they were after. The last time I have no clue what they were after. It's much easier to just leave the car unlocked, auto glass is damned expensive, not to mention that it gets EVERYWHERE, you'll be finding bits of glass in places for years to come.
 
2014-03-31 07:58:35 PM

thrasherrr: I think you missed my point.  One way involves getting caught because you have to stand there doing it for hours, and the other involves not that.


Actually, a lot of the older keypad-entry car have a 5-digit keypad. They had the digits 0-9, but someone (not the security guy) decided that it'd be better to condense the 10-digit keypad into a 5-digit keypad with 0-1, 2-3, 4-5, 6-7, and 8-9.

If you only have 5 digits in the keypad, you only have 5^5=3125 combinations. If it took you two seconds to try a combination, you could exhaust all combos in just over an hour and a half.

Then, some jerk came along and realized that you could efficiently try all combinations (with a little math) in just under 20 minutes. If you have any modicum of luck, you'd probably hit on the right combination in half that time.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1520430
 
2014-03-31 08:51:38 PM

Empty H: ReapTheChaos: Lock only keep honest people honest. If someone wants to steal your car, or what's inside it bad enough, no lock will stop them.

I've had several windows broken on my vehicles over the years, I've finally gotten to where I don't lock my car anymore, I just don't keep anything valuable inside it. I would rather they simply open the door and see there is nothing there worth stealing than to smash a window and find out.

When I had my window smashed and items stolen out of my car I was more upset about the missing window than the items they stole.


<csb>
Had an old bright yellow chevy in college.  Had window busted 3 times.  Once they stole the fuzzy dice (no really) hanging from the mirror.  Once a $10 set of jumper cables.  Started leaving door unlocked and end of problem.
</csb>
 
2014-03-31 09:26:44 PM

Fubini: Then, some jerk came along and realized that you could efficiently try all combinations (with a little math) in just under 20 minutes. If you have any modicum of luck, you'd probably hit on the right combination in half that time.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1520430


Thanks! I had never seen that sequence before now.  I had the idea that Fords worked like my dad's Lincoln, which made you pull the door handle to actually unlock it after entering the digits.  You could never do that in less than eight or ten seconds per try.
 
2014-03-31 09:47:26 PM

labman: And what about OnStar.  that can unlock your car without your knowledge.  Same thing as what they are saying here.

Oh, and many fords have a six digit passcode to open their doors.  Isn't that pretty much the same thing?


Yep. My 2013 Taurus has a five digit password. Not a big deal.
 
2014-03-31 09:56:51 PM

macross87: dittybopper: gingerjet: dittybopper: Still more than twice the cost of a $30K Chevy.

But then you are stuck with a Chevy.

Yeah, but it doesn't take 30 minutes to pump 3 gallons worth of gas into it....

But a Chevy is still a driver killing car with non American electronics and labor, despite their slogan...


Which is why both my wife and I drive Hyundais.  But that's besides the point.
 
2014-03-31 09:58:11 PM

ReapTheChaos: auto glass is damned expensive


Glass coverage on your auto insurance is cheap.
 
2014-03-31 10:10:27 PM

dittybopper: ReapTheChaos: auto glass is damned expensive

Glass coverage on your auto insurance is cheap.


In Texas, glass falls under comprehension, which even if you have (I no longer do) typically carries a $150 deductible.
 
2014-03-31 10:36:40 PM

ReapTheChaos: dittybopper: ReapTheChaos: auto glass is damned expensive

Glass coverage on your auto insurance is cheap.

In Texas, glass falls under comprehension, which even if you have (I no longer do) typically carries a $150 deductible.


It's deductible free for me if the glass guy can come out and do it on site.
 
2014-03-31 11:24:56 PM

dittybopper: I've been driving for over 30 years now.  I've *NEVER* had my window smashed by people looking for shiat.


I had it happen twice in the same year.  The first time, they took a portable CD player which was worth about 1/10 of what the glass cost to replace.

The second time, they didn't take anything, just turned my headlights on so I came home to find bits of safety glass all over the back seat AND that my Geo Prizm wouldn't start.

/was living in Jersey City at the time
//but the GOOD PART of Jersey City
///but still Jersey City
 
2014-04-01 12:18:46 AM

brandent: <csb>
Had an old bright yellow chevy in college. Had window busted 3 times. Once they stole the fuzzy dice (no really) hanging from the mirror. Once a $10 set of jumper cables. Started leaving door unlocked and end of problem.
</csb>


My parents' neighbor had a first generation Saturn.  The window got broken so often she started leaving it unlocked.  But the window still got broken.  So she put a note on the driver's side window that the car was unlocked, and the window got broken again.

So she started just leaving the windows down.
 
2014-04-01 08:37:37 AM

poot_rootbeer: The second time, they didn't take anything, just turned my headlights on so I came home to find bits of safety glass all over the back seat AND that my Geo Prizm wouldn't start.


Maybe the local glass repair guy was trying to up his sales.

/Like all the times those tire slashing sprees turn out to be the owner of the local tire shop
 
2014-04-01 12:57:42 PM

Dinki: that just


dittybopper: gingerjet: dittybopper: Well, for the extra $70,000 I'd be spending for the Tesla, I'd want a bit more security....

If you are paying 70k for a car - I assume you also own a garage to park it in.

Extra $70,000.  Teslas go for about $100,000+.

Plus, I don't know if you've heard this or not, but common radio waves can penetrate most buildings, and cars sometimes have to be parked in areas where there isn't an enclosed garage.

And if someone is tooling around in a $100K+ car, chances are they've got something better in the glove compartment and console besides a few torn Jimapco maps, a Molly Hatchet CD, and some stale Tic-Tacs.


Probably the opposite really. Rich guys don't keep shiat in the vehicles, you need to find some working stiff with a laptop and other junk.

Also, anyone owns a Tesla does not own CDs.
 
2014-04-01 01:21:22 PM

dittybopper: Hell, I've got a bunch of expensive-looking ham radios in my car, and the antennas to match, and no one has broken in.


Ham?  I'm guessing that the only ones that consider your stuff valuable would be other Hams, and while I'm sure there's plenty of criminals, they aren't that common of an intersection.

Plus, while it might not occur to most criminals, being a Ham implies greater than average electrical knowledge, so they can't be sure what countermeasures you might of installed.  Then again, most criminals probably see extra antennas and associate it with being a police vehicle.

Fish in a Barrel: Are you required to use 6 characters, or is that just the minimum?


That's what I'm wondering - it talks about it being an online account, so I figure it's the standard '6 character MINIMUM'.  So if you're like me you set something around 11 characters and you don't really have to worry about a brute-force crack this lifetime.
 
2014-04-01 03:15:52 PM

dittybopper: thrasherrr: labman: Oh, and many fords have a six digit passcode to open their doors.  Isn't that pretty much the same thing?

A big difference exists between standing in a parking lot and typing in thousands of codes, and letting your computer do that on the internet while you sleep.

Actually, for a 6 digit pass code, the number of permutations would be 106, or 1,000,000.  For a 6 *CHARACTER* password, assuming only letters and numbers, the permutations would be 366, or 2,176,782,336 in number.


https://howsecureismypassword.net/ 
Assuming no caps, a 6 character password would take less than a second to crack.  With caps, you're up to 15 seconds.  Add in a symbol and you're still below a minute.

A 6 character password isn't even in "letting your computer do that on the internet while you sleep" level difficulty.  It's barely at "letting your computer do that on the internet while you pee" level difficulty.
 
2014-04-01 03:20:14 PM
This is like the reverse of a LifeHacker article. Because using office supplies to keep your computer cables tidy is not a "hack" equally as much as you don't need to worry about brute-force circumvention of your car door locks what with that massive piece of glass right there.
 
2014-04-01 03:38:45 PM

flak attack: dittybopper: thrasherrr: labman: Oh, and many fords have a six digit passcode to open their doors.  Isn't that pretty much the same thing?

A big difference exists between standing in a parking lot and typing in thousands of codes, and letting your computer do that on the internet while you sleep.

Actually, for a 6 digit pass code, the number of permutations would be 106, or 1,000,000.  For a 6 *CHARACTER* password, assuming only letters and numbers, the permutations would be 366, or 2,176,782,336 in number.

https://howsecureismypassword.net/ 
Assuming no caps, a 6 character password would take less than a second to crack.  With caps, you're up to 15 seconds.  Add in a symbol and you're still below a minute.

A 6 character password isn't even in "letting your computer do that on the internet while you sleep" level difficulty.  It's barely at "letting your computer do that on the internet while you pee" level difficulty.


But you still need to connect to use the brute force method, which adds time and is obvious to those around you.
 
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