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(NBC News)   Reminder: Today is your last day of open enrollment and you must sign up for Obamacare now. The Obamacare web site has been helpfully rendered inoperable for your convenience   (nbcnews.com) divider line 151
    More: Fail, obamacare  
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3747 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Mar 2014 at 11:27 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-31 09:50:05 AM  
13 votes:
You don't "sign up" for "Obamacare." The Federal and State exchanges merely facilitate the purchase of existing private insurance for those not already otherwise covered, or refer you to the existing Medicaid structure (if your state isn't run by asshats).
2014-03-31 11:05:52 AM  
5 votes:

Chris Ween: whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?

If I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others?  Isn't this kinda of a minor milestone since, years after passage, most of those 30 million are still going to be uncovered?

This is strange.  Maybe there weren't 30 million in need.  Or maybe people just can't be trusted to get their own coverage...even when spoon fed and forced to at tax penalty point.


So the problem is that is only reducing the uninsured?  Not clear on what your point is.

Keep in mind that this represents millions of people who couldn't get insurance before but wanted to.  Not sure on the precise number but for these people, Obamacare is actually a rainbow shiatting unicorn.

Secondly, this reduces the burden on hundreds of millions of responsible insurance holders because they won't have to cover as much in terms of emergency room visits from the uninsured.

Finally, every single American benefits from the consumer protections in Obamacare, not to mention the fringe economic benefits of having your health care security detached from your employer, not to mention the likely reduction in medical bankruptcies going forward.

To say there are still many uninsured is short sighted.  Also, moving the goal post because the actual GOP guarantee was actually that Obamacare was going to destroy the country and cause 1,000 years of darkness
2014-03-31 09:27:20 AM  
5 votes:
Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?
2014-03-31 11:44:20 AM  
4 votes:
If you even have to visit healthcare.gov instead of a state exchange website, you have nobody to blame but your obstructionist state legislature.  They are the ones f*cking you over.
2014-03-31 11:42:44 AM  
4 votes:
How about just nationalize it instead of pushing legislation allowing the insurance companies to profit?
2014-03-31 11:04:55 AM  
4 votes:

Chris Ween: Government option


You know, they tried to include that.  Those folks you vote for decided it was a back door to single payer and blocked it.
2014-03-31 10:34:00 AM  
4 votes:

R.A.Danny: James!: R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?

From that link.

The only way for the IRS to collect the fee for not having health insurance, if you choose not to pay it, is for them to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns. The IRS cannot enforce the Individual Shared Responsibility provision with jail time, liens, or any other of typical methods of collection.

That's my point. Why is there an enumerated penalty if there's no "legal" way to collect?


There is a legal way to collect. It's for them to "to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns."

As noted in the link YOU provided and I just quoted back to you.
2014-03-31 09:36:46 AM  
4 votes:
Too bad healthcare.gov is back up now. Makes the overnight outage seem more like a bit of scheduled maintenance before the last day of signups than anything else.

/who really wanted to work on their application at 3:30am anyway?
2014-03-31 12:56:26 PM  
3 votes:

atomic-age: machoprogrammer: How about just nationalize it instead of pushing legislation allowing the insurance companies to profit?

Because a) the Republicans and Medicare recipients shiat their pants over that idea and b) we were in a recession at the time and the insurance industry would have had mass layoffs.


All this talk about Republicans.  Not one single Republican voted for it.  So, can you please stop blaming Republicans?  They had nothing to do with Obamacare. It's 100% Democrat.  For good or ill.
2014-03-31 12:27:17 PM  
3 votes:
img.fark.net
2014-03-31 12:20:57 PM  
3 votes:

glassa: whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?

After the freaking mess that this whole thing has caused, you want to give the feds ENTIRE control over all of it?  You unimaginable fool!

single payer = single denier.  And if you want to sign over your entire body to the control of federal government (who can't find their ass from a hole in the ground), fine have fun with that.  The rest of us don't want that nightmare, so don't inflict it on us.

If you don't think the feds will use the healthcare system as a weapon against their political enemies, the way they use the IRS, you're an even bigger fool.  And remember, the Dems won't always be the ones in charge.  So you may be the one with the target on your back.  Don't put it past them.

I don't trust the government enough to give them complete control over everything like that.  But it's cute that you do.


Don't presume to speak for the rest of "us". We aren't all as ignorant as you are.
2014-03-31 11:40:59 AM  
3 votes:

adamatari: Why is there even an "enrollment period"? Isn't it part of the point of this that people can get healthcare without having to worry about "sorry you can only sign up once a year, so you have to wait 9 months now, newby"? Or is this for tax purposes - "you missed the period, so now you have to pay the tax for the year, though you signed up a day later"?

What about people who lose their jobs randomly and such? If I lose my job in May, will I be able to sign up for Obamacare or do I have to wait until January of next year?

This is the sort of shiat we were trying to get away from....


Qualifying life events like the birth of a child or a major job change entitle you to a special enrollment period where you can change your insurance.
2014-03-31 11:36:17 AM  
3 votes:
2014-03-31 10:59:03 AM  
3 votes:

Chris Ween: f I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others


Agreed. While we're at it, We should get rid of all fire departments because fires still happen. The best way to solve a problem is by ignoring it.
2014-03-31 10:26:18 AM  
3 votes:
So far, 10 million more people have health insurance- either privately or through medicaid expansion- than had it before.
2014-03-31 10:25:14 AM  
3 votes:

R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?


www.biopoliticaltimes.org

You explicitly said, and I quote: "And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!" Now you are saying they will be subjected to a tax, fine, or other penalty. There is a Grand Canyon-sized chasm between those two things. Stop moving the Goddamn goalposts and admit you were wrong.
2014-03-31 10:19:55 AM  
3 votes:

R.A.Danny: Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.

Tell Obama that.


Not real clear on the whole "no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay" thing are we?
2014-03-31 10:15:24 AM  
3 votes:

Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.


Tell Obama that.
2014-03-31 10:00:51 AM  
3 votes:
And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!
2014-03-31 09:55:39 AM  
3 votes:
So the site was down or a few minutes and its a headline?
2014-03-31 09:52:13 AM  
3 votes:

xanadian: Good thing there isn't a deadline or anything that could end up costing individual taxpayers $95 or 1% of their annual income, whichever is higher...


Or you could...you know....call an insurance agent today in the town where you live. Like people have been doing for years.
2014-03-31 03:07:05 PM  
2 votes:

Born_Again_Bavarian: jst3p: Daraymann: Right now, I don't have a job and can't afford, nor do I need, health insurance.  So I have to either go on welfare or pay a fine every month and still not have health insurance.

/farking liberals...

Everyone needs health insurance.

Nuh-uh.  I plan on leeching off the system and other rate payers like a good bootstrappy Republican!


WELL, I've been to the doctor one time in the last 15 years, cost $80.  That's much cheaper then $200 a month.  Me needing insurance is my decision, not a bunch of follow the leader government officials.  Now help  me understand where the leeching off the system comes in or are you just being a derpy libtard?
2014-03-31 01:44:40 PM  
2 votes:

sritzhaupt: [img.fark.net image 402x337]


fc03.deviantart.net
If you like our herp, you are going to love our derp.
2014-03-31 01:11:45 PM  
2 votes:
Funny how everybody's in a rush to get health INSURANCE.

Wait 'till they find out health INSURANCE is NOT health CARE.
2014-03-31 12:46:35 PM  
2 votes:
Sorry, but if the best America can do is "Hey, at least we're not Somalia", America is f*cked.
2014-03-31 12:43:32 PM  
2 votes:
At the end of the day, medicine is either about healing or making exorbitant amounts of money.  This is plan A for option B.  And little else.  It  doesn't adress the inherent problem of medicine for profit.  It's just taps a different vein.
2014-03-31 12:35:15 PM  
2 votes:

Carn: It's awesome that you can work your whole life, paying insurance premiums and making them oodles of money, and then finally when you get really sick and need real care they kick you to the curb and piss on your head and then people cheer them for it.


Reminds me of this:

comicsidontunderstand.com
2014-03-31 12:18:49 PM  
2 votes:

thurstonxhowell: BeesNuts: dok9874: I just got laid off, so that's my Hardship #14. Not sure how I'm going to provide documentation of not receiving a paycheck anymore though.

File for unemployment.  They typically confirm with your employer that you were really laid off, and they include a statement about your earnings, and the date of your last paycheck in the info packets they mail you.

Whether you qualify or not it's a convenient way to obtain proof that you're unemployed as far as the state is concerned.

He should probably receive info about COBRA regardless. Granted, it probably doesn't make financial sense to go with COBRA now that the exchanges exist, but that packet should have enough info to prove the recent change in employment status. Also, if he "just got laid off", then he can head on over to the exchange website and sign up without having to bother with any of this. This guy's not trying to get answers, he's trying to spread FUD.


And I'm happy to alleviate said fake doubts, fears and uncertainties.

Like the one a moment ago complaining about the website.  This is what I see:
i59.tinypic.com

So basically they are being more amenable than any private company has in the history of ever.  But they are incompetent and want you to suffer.

I'm just *loving* the desperation.
2014-03-31 12:08:49 PM  
2 votes:

Aldon: 6 million sign ups are pretty amazing considering 26 Republican governors actively worked to make the program fail.

Thanks Obama!


It is amazing that 6 million people threatened with a penalty actually followed the law! This is just like the amazing popularity that the IRS commands. Just look at how many people filed taxes! The government is on a roll.
2014-03-31 11:12:57 AM  
2 votes:

mrshowrules: for these people, Obamacare is actually a rainbow shiatting unicorn.


Yep. I'm one of them. $3000/mo premiums (pre-ACA) were a little steep. $275/mo (now) I can handle though.

/Self-employed
//Pre-existing conditions
2014-03-31 10:47:17 AM  
2 votes:
Signed up my mother-in-law a few weeks ago.  It was surprisingly cheap and painless.

I assume this makes me worse than Hitler.
2014-03-31 10:34:11 AM  
2 votes:

R.A.Danny: James!: R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?

From that link.

The only way for the IRS to collect the fee for not having health insurance, if you choose not to pay it, is for them to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns. The IRS cannot enforce the Individual Shared Responsibility provision with jail time, liens, or any other of typical methods of collection.

That's my point. Why is there an enumerated penalty if there's no "legal" way to collect?


Likely because the drafters of that provision knew people who irrationally hate Obama and the Democrats were trying to declare everyone in the country criminals. What they forgot is that people like you would make that argument regardless of knowing whether it is true or false because it fits seamlessly into a pre-existing narrative about how Obama is a megalomaniacal dictator hellbent on remaking America in his image.
2014-03-31 10:24:37 AM  
2 votes:

R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?


Except for nobody said that.
2014-03-31 10:17:21 AM  
2 votes:

R.A.Danny: Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.

Tell Obama that.


Your thing doesn't contradict his thing.
2014-03-31 10:07:12 AM  
2 votes:
obamacare isn't a service you can sign up for, I hope this helps
2014-03-31 09:59:04 AM  
2 votes:

xanadian: FTFA:  An administration spokesman said the website is usually offline for maintenance overnight, and was brought down for four extra hours by a technical glitch


Good thing there isn't a deadline or anything that could end up costing individual taxpayers $95 or 1% of their annual income, whichever is higher...

*facepalm*

/of course, there's something to be said for not procrastinating, but still


Once again, I ask who the hell was actually awake and desperate to work on their health insurance application at 3:30am? I can understand being desperate to work on it today at some point, but in the wee hours of the morning?
2014-03-31 09:41:29 AM  
2 votes:
Um, it works perfectly fine.
2014-03-31 08:07:31 PM  
1 votes:

dok9874: Have you tried calling Obamacare to cancel a policy?  I've read numerous accounts where people tried to do just that and were told they had to go to the website to do that.  Well, the website doesn't have that option, Einstein.  What the fark went wrong in YOUR brain that you don't pay attention to accounts of legitimate issues with the Obama Dog and Pony Show?  You must be one of those sheeple who think the government is actually here to help you.  Bless your little heart.


You are farking retarded. You know that, right? You use the "Obamacare" website to sign up for a health insurance plan. If you would like to cancel that policy, you should call the insurer you signed up with. If you knew literally anything about the situation you're talking about, you would know that.
2014-03-31 07:19:30 PM  
1 votes:

dok9874: Have you tried calling Obamacare to cancel a policy?


"Obamacare" is neither a person or organization so it's not really possible to call "Obamacare". You need to call the insurance company you purchased coverage through. Exactly the same as before Obamacare.
2014-03-31 07:18:08 PM  
1 votes:

dok9874: I've read numerous accounts where people tried to do just that and were told they had to go to the website to do that


Show me one.
2014-03-31 06:34:53 PM  
1 votes:

jigger: Dusk-You-n-Me: jigger: hahaowow.jpg

People who supported the passage and implementation of Medicare and Social Security heard the same thing.

And Obamacare is JUST like those programs.


Sure it is. Look, under SS, we have to buy terrycloth hats, and wrap around Blue Blocker sunglasses, and with Medicare, we have to pay for Anal lube and beads.

So, Obamacare is the exact same thing.

Sheesh, maybe you should stop watching Glen Beck on Faux News.
2014-03-31 06:19:16 PM  
1 votes:
1.  Never try and learn anything from anybody whose chief assumption is that, should they know something you don't, the primary importance of that is to be an arrogant c*nt about it.

2.  Never try and learn anything from anybody who is dripping with certitude about anything.  They have stopped paying attention and are working with a very narrow scope.

3.  Never try and learn anything from anybody whose ostensibly unimpeachable knowledge is derived from things other people have asserted.  They are working within a template.

4.  Be nice to your mom and helpless animals.  Stay hydrated.  Don't be a dick.  You now "win" at life.
2014-03-31 06:01:03 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: Witty_Retort: you have demonstrated that you know not how either the ACA or sovereign debt work.

Just fine until somebody changes the rules or comes to collect.


Nobody can 'call-in' our debt. It is sold in treasury notes. If you cash them in early, you lose most of the interest that they have accumulated.
Please, tell me moar of the infromative sources you have access to.
2014-03-31 05:55:51 PM  
1 votes:

RaiderFanMikeP: Melvin Lovecraft: Honest question here:  If, as a vet, I am able to go to a VA hospital, do I still need to sign up for ACA?  Currently unemployed (got laid off in December).  I have ZERO dollars to pay for health insurance.  After rent, car note and groceries, I'm flat broke.  It won't last forever, but for right now, I simply don't have any extra money for insurance.

/another penalty is meaningless...they can get in line for what they say I owe

IRS response:  move in with someone else or find a cheaper rent.. sell your car and eat less and pay  Pay PAY!!!!!

https://www.healthcare.gov/if-im-a-military-veteran-what-do-i-need-t o- know-about-the-marketplace/


That's not what the links says at all. The very first line:

If you're enrolled in TRICARE or the Veterans health care program, you're considered covered under the health care law. You don't need to make any changes.
2014-03-31 05:34:16 PM  
1 votes:

jigger: jst3p: one of 12 House members who voted against creating Medicare in 1965

WOW, so only 12 House members voted NO? Yeah, this is just like Obamacare.


in 1965, the members of the House didn't vote a certain way because the didn't like the guy in the white house.  they actually gave a shiat about their constituents.
2014-03-31 05:33:45 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: Going bankrupt? I'm pretty sure that if your government is kiting bad checks against 17,000,000,000,000.00 in bad debt, whatever they're cutting checks for is pretty much already bankrupt.



For the record, I hate the medical insurance industry. The ACA is not perfect, but it is better than what we had.
And today, you have demonstrated that you know not how either the ACA or sovereign debt work.

Just so you know, psychiatric treatments now get pay parity with regular doctors visits. Just saying as you seem to be bouncing from lucid to paranoid ravings.
Please read teh Googles (on the ACA and debt and pretty much anything you in the future wish to comment on) and call for a psych eval.
Have a good day.
2014-03-31 05:24:49 PM  
1 votes:

Netrngr: Maybe there is something im not seeing but all I see is a shameless money grab based on a law that failed to put in place protections for the people it was intended to help.


Like a lot of federal laws (Clean Air and Clean Water Acts come to mind), the ACA empowers state governments to take care of shiat. South Carolina (from your profile) is bought and paid for by the insurance industry. Your beef is with SC, not the ACA. Like I said before, you could petition the HHS to look at the increase. They have (through provisions in the ACA) already overrode and cut some state's rate hikes.

Netrngr: Witty_Retort:
/i saved only $2,200 per year, so Obama is a big fat poopyhead liar.

How the hell did you do that? What were you paying a month before? Like I said mine doubled.


My 'payments' went up a few bucks a month, but I went from a 'hope I don't get sick, and if I do, die quick so I don't bankrupt my family' crap plan to a mildly OK one. Subsidies are saving me 2g a year.

Also, look into a Healthcare Savings Account. If you have preexisting conditions and know you'll probably hit the yearly deductible, saving money in the HSA could lower your Gross Pay to something that provides subsidies. A buddy of mine is doing that. His baby girl is bad sick and knows that he'll hit the $7,500 family cap each year. So he structured it so that he'll put 8k away each year (that he knows he'll pay out), and that will lower his gross so that he will get about 14k in subsidies.
2014-03-31 05:20:29 PM  
1 votes:

WiredMann: In the next decade, Social Security will be start paying out more money than it has taken in in a big way.  You cannot tweek or make minor adjustments to fix that.  Did you know that when Social Security was originally passed people rarely lived passed the age of 65?  Now people are living well past that but the retirement has not changed.  Major changes will need to be made and it is not going to be pretty.


Social Security is solvent for the next 20 years and can pay out 75% of benefits after that. It keeps 22 million Americans out of poverty, has never in its history missed a payment, consistently runs a surplus and is extremely popular to boot. It is the most successful social welfare program in the history of the country. Period. Major changes are not need. One change is needed. Lift the contribution cap. A one line piece of legislation. There, you can stop with the concern trolling. Next.
2014-03-31 05:19:27 PM  
1 votes:

WiredMann: Dusk-You-n-Me: WiredMann: You do realize that something has be done about both of these programs or they will be going bankrupt, right?

Something has to be done, oh my heavens! Fetch the fainting couch! As if something hasn't been done before? They've both been adjusted and tweaked over the years. That's how big programs work. They require periodic maintenance.

In the next decade, Social Security will be start paying out more money than it has taken in in a big way.   You cannot tweek or make minor adjustments to fix that.  Did you know that when Social Security was originally passed people rarely lived passed the age of 65?  Now people are living well past that but the retirement has not changed.  Major changes will need to be made and it is not going to be pretty.  But by all means kick the can down the road and bury your head in the sand.  But let's get back to ObamaCare and not get distracted.


A 2.66% increase in payroll taxes and slowly raising the retirement age to 70 would completely fix SS.

/ TMYK
2014-03-31 04:53:01 PM  
1 votes:

WiredMann: There is a big problem with any of these "plans" as far as what doctors will take those plans.  Same things goes with hospitals.


Not a situation introduced by Obamacare.

WiredMann: Wake up and smell the failure/


Obamacare will go down as one of the most successful social welfare programs in this country's history, much like medicare and social security. You should get comfortable with this now.
2014-03-31 04:45:49 PM  
1 votes:

WiredMann: jst3p: lolwut

Just call your doctor and ask them if they take ObamaCare.  Chances are they don't.


If you really think ObamaCare is an insurance policy that providers can accept or not, then, on a very fundamental level, you do not understand just what ObamaCare is.
2014-03-31 04:40:26 PM  
1 votes:

Level5: Well this is what Im seeing when I try to login. Cool stuff, thanks obama.



I had problems with Chrome. Once I switched to IE, it was fine.
2014-03-31 04:28:59 PM  
1 votes:

Why Would I Read the Article: That's about an additional $7.5k for a family of four


That's not what that cms document says. You're repeating what an AEI rep said on Forbes. He was wrong. Link
2014-03-31 04:17:14 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: Three examples, so far, and all of them encouraging. Now imagine what it would be like to only have to walk into any medical faility with proof of citizenship and be covered without cutting an extra check every month to some private company.


That would be f*cking fantastic! I would love that. I support that fully.

And I know that with the political situation we have here in this country, we are so very far away from seeing that in our lifetimes, as much as I might want it.

The ACA is not perfect. It's not even great. But it's better than the shiat sandwich we had before.
2014-03-31 04:06:42 PM  
1 votes:

Netrngr: Please explain then how priced effectively double overnight? I'll tell you how. There were no provisions in the law to keep the bastard insurance companies from boosting rates to the moon. Granted we may not worry about someone else going to the ER but instead worry if we can afford it now. Don't get me wrong i think we should have all these provisions and more but there should have been safeguards in place before the laws went into effect. Kinda screwed the pooch on that side of it.


Of course, insurance premium will continue to rise.  They are rising just as much under Obamacare as they were previously.  That's just the reality of pricing a commodity with an inelastic demand via the free market.

You want health care costs to drop, you need single payer.  Obamacare reduces the worse aspects of the train wreck of a system you had but it is only a stop-gap measure I will conceded.

What Obamacare does, is prevent a growing number of uninsured people passing on their emergency room care to responsible people with insurance.

When sick people go to doctors instead, everyone will save money.
2014-03-31 04:06:11 PM  
1 votes:

dok9874: sdd2000: dok9874: thurstonxhowell: dok9874: Except that buying insurance directly from the provider, or say through ehealthinsurance.com, doesn't HAVE "enrollment periods".

Go to ehealthinsurance.com right now. Just the front page. Take a look at what it says.

I see a lot of maybes and might nots and no guarantee thats, but I don't see anything that says I absolutely positively will not in any way shape or form be able to get insurance outside of the Obamacare enrollment period.

But it still doesn't matter to me, because I'm STILL not jumping on the idiot bandwagon to pay for a product that would cost me $12,700 out of pocket on top of premiums before any shiat is covered.  I don't have $12,700 plus premiums (which for me adds another $4400 on top of the family deductible), to pay for medical care because shiatty policy doesn't cover shiat.  Not to mention limited networks where you are allowed to use the shiatty policy.  And unless I got hit by a train, it's highly unlikely I'd ever have that much in medical costs in a year, so I'm paying out the wazoo for nothing.  I'd have better luck with a lottery ticket.

I'll hang on to my $17k+ and continue to pay for my healthcare like I always have: with cash.  You get a better rate paying cash rather than using "health insurance" anyway.  The only thing health insurance ensures is that the insurance companies get richer.

And then there's the issue that once you sign up for Obamacare, there is no mechanism to UN-sign up if say, you get a job that offers health insurance. (they didn't quite think that one through).

Thanks, but no thanks.

How about "un-signing up" by not paying the premium?

Ah yes, the premiums that are paid by automatic draft from your bank account.  You going to just switch bank accounts?  And that's not "unsigning up", that's welching on the contract where you agreed to pay the premiums.  I'm talking a legitimate way to cancel the policy.


This is an example of weapons grade ignorance.  Putting this level of derp on display for children under the age of 12 could get you charged with a war crime.
2014-03-31 03:59:41 PM  
1 votes:

dok9874: thurstonxhowell: dok9874: I see a lot of maybes and might nots and no guarantee thats, but I don't see anything that says I absolutely positively will not in any way shape or form be able to get insurance outside of the Obamacare enrollment period.

You will not find a site that will tell you that you absolutely cannot buy insurance outside the enrollment period because that is not true. What you will find on the site that you used as an example is this:

"After March 31, you cannot purchase a health insurance plan unless you have a qualifying life event, such as getting married or divorced, having or adopting a child, or moving to a new coverage area. "

Is that clear enough for you? As for the rest of your post, if it's true, look for a better plan. The cheapest one to buy might not be the cheapest one to use. Look into the details of the plan. Many of the nice ones cover you for a lot of things before the deductible.

The cheapest bronze plan for my family is $317.71 per month.  It has both individual deductibles ($6,000 each) and a family deductible ($12,700).  It has a special comment that says "you pay nothing after deductible".  Well, I don't have $6000 or $12,700 to pay for medical costs, so this policy is essentially worthless unless, as I've stated before, I get hit my a train.  This one costs me just under 23% of my yearly income.

Or I could go with a gold plan that costs $566.91 a month with $10 copays, individual deductibles of $1500 and a family deductible of $4500.  Even that one I'm still looking at at least $12,302 out of pocket costs for premiums plus deductibles before full coverage kicks in, but I'm still paying co-pays.  It's basic math. This one would cost me just over 22% of my yearly income for the gold plan, and I don't find these numbers under either policy anywhere near "Affordable".

Since paying the penalty is an option, that's the one I'm going with.  And as a previous poster stated, health insurance isn't healthcare, and the increasin ...



It is far from worthless.  Let's say you get cancer.  After $50,000 in expenses your life is saved.  You front the first $6,000.  Balance: $44,000.  I'm guessing your coinsurance is 30% and your maximum out of pocket is about $12,000.  So for the next $6,000 you pay $1800 while the insurance company pays $4200.  Total out of pocket for you so far: $7,800.  Balance: $38,000.  For the rest the insurance company picks up the tab 100%.  So when all is said and done you will have paid $7,800 while the inusrance company picked up $42,200.

I get that $7,800 is a large bill, but it is less than +$40,000.   And every hospital in America is willing to work with you and a payment plan.

Tell me again how this insurance is worthless?

Based on the numbers you posted your insurance costs would exceed the 8% threshold which means you aren't required to buy insurance.  But also based on your numbers you would probably qualify for a decent subsidy.  Assuming a family of 3 you could possibly get a silver plan for a little over $100/month.  So one or more of the following must be true:

1.   Obvious troll is obvious
2.   You suck at the maths
3.   You haven't done any research on this...........at all
4.   You watch a lot of Fox News
2014-03-31 03:58:19 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: Barry, all things considered, has done a few useful things in his tenure.  Which, after all, isn't easy because, at the end of the day, he president is a sock puppet / scapegoat.  Forcing people to buy sketchy insurance from a selection of coporate whorehouses instead of working for socialized medicine, however, is not one of them.  This whole thing stinks to high heaven and when your government starts fining you for not having money, it's time to start packing.


bunner: tylerdurden217: Insurance companies are required to spend at least 80-85% of premium dollars on health costs and claims instead of administrative costs and profits.

This is news to me.  Do you have a cite for this?


Seriously? Do you know ANYTHING about the PPACA? You should really try and find out a  little bit about it before talking about how crappy it is.
2014-03-31 03:53:17 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: Would everybody here who has ever had medical care,a  treatment or prodcedure over and above preventative and had their insurer PAY THE WHOLE THING without being jerked around like a chihuahua on a tow chain, please raise their hands?


me!  my wife had kidney failure and all the visits to the specialist and dialysis were covered    no issues with prescriptions...  the only problem we had with insurance companies was office workers typing her name wrong and getting rejected..  once the name was fixed..  paid..
2014-03-31 03:49:34 PM  
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Tyee: One day a liberal will admit the ACA was poorly conceived legislation

One day? I'm a liberal and I'll tell you that right now. It isn't a liberal plan, sport. You need to recalibrate your political spectrometer. Which isn't to say it's not a step in the right direction, or worse than the nothing we had before.


You realize if you owed that deductible, you can pay it off in installments right? You can arrange payment plans with the hospitals for like $100/month (or less if you need). Yes, 6k is a lot to come up with for many people in one fell swoop, but you have options there.
2014-03-31 03:48:37 PM  
1 votes:

Netrngr: Please explain then how priced effectively double overnight? I'll tell you how. There were no provisions in the law to keep the bastard insurance companies from boosting rates to the moon. Granted we may not worry about someone else going to the ER but instead worry if we can afford it now. Don't get me wrong i think we should have all these provisions and more but there should have been safeguards in place before the laws went into effect. Kinda screwed the pooch on that side of it.


There is a provision to keep insurance companies from "boosting rates to the moon". Insurance companies are required to spend at least 80-85% of premium dollars on health costs and claims instead of administrative costs and profits. If they don't, then you get a rebate. So the rate increases would be justified or you get a check.
2014-03-31 03:47:49 PM  
1 votes:

coffeeplease: kidgenius: Witty_Retort: coffeeplease: Waiting patiently to see the $2,500 in cost savings Obama promised I would see.

Considering your comments, I doubt you are an Average American.

/i saved only $2,200 per year, so Obama is a big fat poopyhead liar.

Tell ya what, I'm saving $3600 a year. I'll send you $300 to get you up to that $2500 that he promised. Deal?

Without being snarky, can you spell out for me how you are saving $3,600 a year?


Sure....

Before the exchanges were opened I had two ways I could buy insurance. 1) On the individual market or 2) Through my employer. I have to cover myself, two kids and my wife. Now, my employer's insurance plan would be equivalent to a Gold plan on the exchanges today. On the individual market, insurance wasn't too crazy, but it wasn't great. If I went through my employer, he would cover me, but I had to pay 100% of the premiums for my wife and kids. That was going to be over 1K a month. So what I did was put my kids onto an individual plan, and put my wife onto my employer's plan. I did the latter for my wife because IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE to purchase insurance individual plans that covered maternity (except for the 'complications' coverage). I could not write a check large enough to any of the providers. Humana, No. BCBS, No. Aetna, Hell No. Cigna, LOL No. United Healthcare, Are you kidding? And, this whole debacle began before we had kids five years ago. So, with the knowledge that kids were coming, I had no choice but to put her onto my boss' plan. So, adding up the various costs, I was paying $475 a month for my wife on a gold-equivalent plan, and $380 a month for the two kids on a bronze-level plan after the 1st of the year (was $330 a month throughout 2013). Our new ACA plan which we've had since Jan 1 covers my wife and kids, on a silver-level plan with maternity coverage included (lord help us if another comes along), all for the grand total of $550/month. Yes, our network isn't great, but it does cover my kids pediatrician and it also covers the really nice children's hospital in our area. Our deductibles are much better for things like ER visits (which, by chance, we've had to use twice this year so far), our out-of-pockets are lower for the kids, etc. Hell, the ER visits alone have saved us over a grand vs. what we would have had to pay before. Not to mention other benefits like having free birth control, and one of my wife's medications dropped from $10/month to $2/month. Not sure if that was due to the new insurance, but it first showed up in January when we did the first refill.

Could it all be better, absolutely, Single-payer-FTW. But this is way better than what we had before.
2014-03-31 03:41:36 PM  
1 votes:

Netrngr: Honestly the only criminals in this whole thing are the farking insurance companies who damn near doubled their rates. My Blue Cross policy when from 240 and change to 480 and change every 2 weeks. What part of Affordable didn't they understand?


Sounds like you live in a horrible state that lets the insurance companies write the policy rules.
You could petition DHHS to review the increase. The ACA gives them the ability to override burdensome increases and they've already used that power.
2014-03-31 03:40:18 PM  
1 votes:
You know what I think would insure health?  Widely available socialized medicine.  Health insurance ensures income for insurers.  Nothing else.
2014-03-31 03:36:09 PM  
1 votes:

Tyee: One day a liberal will admit the ACA was poorly conceived legislation.  That ACA legislation was then rammed down the throats of Americans by a host of liars telling their lies.  It was then implemented by the inept at the guidance of the inexperienced.  When that liberal finally admits and speaks these truths, other liberals will attack that individual.


Instead of making blanket statements like these, maybe you should try to come up with a valid criticism.

Are GOP reps pretty truthful in your eyes?
2014-03-31 03:32:02 PM  
1 votes:
One day a liberal will admit the ACA was poorly conceived legislation.  That ACA legislation was then rammed down the throats of Americans by a host of liars telling their lies.  It was then implemented by the inept at the guidance of the inexperienced.  When that liberal finally admits and speaks these truths, other liberals will attack that individual.
2014-03-31 03:26:59 PM  
1 votes:
I was able to finish my enrollment today. I logged in, and saw $180 a month payment! I was like: JESUS, WTF?! It was the catastrophic plan, so I decided to roll the dice and downgrade to a silver plan, costing me roughly $75 a month. I'm fairly poor, but it feels good to finally have insurance. I would NEVER have been able to afford a $200 a month health care plan through a private provider, so we'll see how this goes for me.
2014-03-31 03:25:09 PM  
1 votes:

sdd2000: How about "un-signing up" by not paying the premium?


... or just cancel the plan. Why in the shiatting fark would the ACA need to include a provision to allow you to cancel your plan? Just cancel it. Call up your insurer and say "I no longer have need of your services, thank you". The ACA also doesn't have a provision to take your dick out and point it at something you don't mind getting piss on before you drain the lizard. Apparently, that means this guy's been pissing his pants for the past 4 years.
2014-03-31 03:16:14 PM  
1 votes:

Daraymann: Me needing insurance is my decision


Unless you are a superhero, no, it is not. Because when you get sick or hurt and end up in the emergency room, the rest of us pick up the tab. You do not live in a universe until yourself. Your lack of action affects the rest of us. So show some personal responsibility and get insured.
2014-03-31 03:15:12 PM  
1 votes:

Daraymann: WELL, I've been to the doctor one time in the last 15 years, cost $80.  That's much cheaper then $200 a month.  Me needing insurance is my decision, not a bunch of follow the leader government officials.  Now help  me understand where the leeching off the system comes in or are you just being a derpy libtard?


I've never died, why the hell do I need life insurance?!?!

$200 a month is a DROP in the BUCKET compared to the real traumatic events. If you paid that much for 20 years, it would still be cheaper than a couple weeks in ICU. Or god forbid you ever need to be airlifted somewhere, that runs 15K+ ... then when you get to the hospital, those injuries tend to be of the six figure variety. Strokes, Cancer, heart attacks, or any other thing that is likely to happen to you if you live long enough can cost more than what you pay in several years just by being diagnosed.

The thing is, when you show up to the ER with your pelvis crushed, they don't just let you die because you don't have insurance. The doctors will perform life saving procedures on you and will keep you admitted for a couple weeks (month+ maybe) and then when you are discharged with $100K+ in medical bills, the hospital will absorb the cost. All because YOU decided that $200 a month was too much... well if you contribute that much for 40 years it won't be $100K.
2014-03-31 03:13:40 PM  
1 votes:

Daraymann: Born_Again_Bavarian: jst3p: Daraymann: Right now, I don't have a job and can't afford, nor do I need, health insurance.  So I have to either go on welfare or pay a fine every month and still not have health insurance.

/farking liberals...

Everyone needs health insurance.

Nuh-uh.  I plan on leeching off the system and other rate payers like a good bootstrappy Republican!

WELL, I've been to the doctor one time in the last 15 years, cost $80.  That's much cheaper then $200 a month.  Me needing insurance is my decision, not a bunch of follow the leader government officials.  Now help  me understand where the leeching off the system comes in or are you just being a derpy libtard?


When you do suffer something serious, and you will eventually - everyone does, if you are planning to lie down and die instead of seeking treatment, then no, you don't need insurance. If, on the other hand, you plan to seek some sort of medical treatment to attempt to survive the medical problem, or even for palliative care, then yes, you need insurance or you will be sticking everyone else with your medical bills that you will be completely unable to pay.
2014-03-31 03:10:20 PM  
1 votes:

Daraymann: Born_Again_Bavarian: jst3p: Daraymann: Right now, I don't have a job and can't afford, nor do I need, health insurance.  So I have to either go on welfare or pay a fine every month and still not have health insurance.

/farking liberals...

Everyone needs health insurance.

Nuh-uh.  I plan on leeching off the system and other rate payers like a good bootstrappy Republican!

WELL, I've been to the doctor one time in the last 15 years, cost $80.  That's much cheaper then $200 a month.  Me needing insurance is my decision, not a bunch of follow the leader government officials.


You, good sir, make much sense. Why, I have had homeowners insurance on my residence for the last 20 years and it has never caught fire! I should cancel it because clearly I do not need it!

 Now help  me understand where the leeching off the system comes in or are you just being a derpy libtard?

Because when you do catch fire you will bankruptcy out of your medical bills and we all get to pay for you, mooch.
2014-03-31 03:07:55 PM  
1 votes:

Summercat: Daraymann: Right now, I don't have a job and can't afford, nor do I need, health insurance.  So I have to either go on welfare or pay a fine every month and still not have health insurance.

/farking liberals...


You don't have a job? That means your income is under 10K a year, which means you're exempt.


Not only exempt, but you may qualify for medicare if your state decided to expand the program... thanks to the ACA.

Also love the slashy name calling after an ignorant and self contradicting post.
2014-03-31 03:06:12 PM  
1 votes:

Daraymann: Right now, I don't have a job and can't afford, nor do I need, health insurance.  So I have to either go on welfare or pay a fine every month and still not have health insurance.

/farking liberals...


OhmyfarkingGod are we still doing this?

If.
You.
Are.
Unemployed.
And/
Or.
Insurance.
Would.
Be.
8%.
Or.
More.
Of.
Your.
Income.
Or.
Your.
Income.
Is.
Below.
The.
Threshold.
For.
Filing.
Taxes.
You.
Are.
Exempt.
2014-03-31 03:04:42 PM  
1 votes:

jst3p: Everyone needs health insurance.


Bill Gates probably doesn't.

Daraymann: So I have to either go on welfare or pay a fine every month and still not have health insurance.


it's not every month, it is a tax that is assessed against your next year's Federal taxes.  Colorado expanded medicaid, so you are probably covered by that or you will get a government subsidy to cover your premium.  You may call it welfare if you like, but you just look silly.  The reason you are mandated to have individual coverage is because at some point in your life you will need health care and won't be able to afford.  That you don't think this is the case also makes you look very silly.  So does that picture in your profile; silly.
2014-03-31 03:02:51 PM  
1 votes:

Born_Again_Bavarian: jst3p: Daraymann: Right now, I don't have a job and can't afford, nor do I need, health insurance.  So I have to either go on welfare or pay a fine every month and still not have health insurance.

/farking liberals...

Everyone needs health insurance.

Nuh-uh.  I plan on leeching off the system and other rate payers like a good bootstrappy Republican!


No, everyone needs health CARE.  insurance companies need health insurance.
2014-03-31 03:02:12 PM  
1 votes:

dok9874: I see a lot of maybes and might nots and no guarantee thats, but I don't see anything that says I absolutely positively will not in any way shape or form be able to get insurance outside of the Obamacare enrollment period.

But it still doesn't matter to me, because I'm STILL not jumping on the idiot bandwagon to pay for a product that would cost me $12,700 out of pocket on top of premiums before any shiat is covered.  I don't have $12,700 plus premiums (which for me adds another $4400 on top of the family deductible), to pay for medical care because shiatty policy doesn't cover shiat.  Not to mention limited networks where you are allowed to use the shiatty policy.  And unless I got hit by a train, it's highly unlikely I'd ever have that much in medical costs in a year, so I'm paying out the wazoo for nothing.  I'd have better luck with a lottery ticket.

I'll hang on to my $17k+ and continue to pay for my healthcare like I always have: with cash.  You get a better rate paying cash rather than using "health insurance" anyway.  The only thing health insurance ensures is that the insurance companies get richer.

And then there's the issue that once you sign up for Obamacare, there is no mechanism to UN-sign up if say, you get a job that offers health insurance.  (they didn't quite think that one through).

Thanks, but no thanks.


Does it bother you at all that nearly every problem you have with new healthcare law has turned out to be false? Does that make you want to research it a little more? If you can't afford it, then you probably qualify for a subsidy. If you don't qualify for a subsidy because you make too much money and you are choosing not to be covered, that's just irresponsible. You say you will pay for your health care with cash, but what happens when you end up in the ICU for 2 weeks on a respirator? Who pays for that? The 12K is a drop in the bucket compared to the expense of trauma, cancer, etc. You may not need insurance for the sniffles, but you will need it when you need your leg rebuilt with screws.

The problem with people like you is that when you can't pay, the hospital absorbs the cost. Then when people who do have insurance go to the hospital, they pay higher prices. It's as if you are shoplifting healthcare and everyone else has to eat the cost.

You can choose not to have insurance, but you can't choose not to have healthcare. Not unless you would just suffer and die from a compound fracture when all you needed was a visit to the ER.
2014-03-31 02:58:29 PM  
1 votes:

jst3p: Daraymann: Right now, I don't have a job and can't afford, nor do I need, health insurance.  So I have to either go on welfare or pay a fine every month and still not have health insurance.

/farking liberals...

Everyone needs health insurance.


Nuh-uh.  I plan on leeching off the system and other rate payers like a good bootstrappy Republican!
2014-03-31 02:52:21 PM  
1 votes:
Right now, I don't have a job and can't afford, nor do I need, health insurance.  So I have to either go on welfare or pay a fine every month and still not have health insurance.

/farking liberals...
2014-03-31 02:51:49 PM  
1 votes:

thurstonxhowell: BeesNuts: dok9874: I just got laid off, so that's my Hardship #14. Not sure how I'm going to provide documentation of not receiving a paycheck anymore though.

File for unemployment.  They typically confirm with your employer that you were really laid off, and they include a statement about your earnings, and the date of your last paycheck in the info packets they mail you.

Whether you qualify or not it's a convenient way to obtain proof that you're unemployed as far as the state is concerned.

He should probably receive info about COBRA regardless. Granted, it probably doesn't make financial sense to go with COBRA now that the exchanges exist, but that packet should have enough info to prove the recent change in employment status. Also, if he "just got laid off", then he can head on over to the exchange website and sign up without having to bother with any of this. This guy's not trying to get answers, he's trying to spread FUD.


Jiminy cricket clearly I should have added a /sarc.

/No COBRA because my employer didn't offer me health insurance
//still have no desire to sign up for Obamacare
///think it will be politically expedient for Obama to wave his magic wand and waive/delay the individual mandate/penalty/tax/shared responsibility payment like he's done 38 other times with the LAW
2014-03-31 02:22:47 PM  
1 votes:

Epic Fap Session: From the article (which is a summary of a study): Fewer than a million people who had health plans in 2013 are now uninsured because their plans were canceled for not meeting new standards set by the law, the Rand survey indicates.


No plans were canceled for not meeting new standards.  Any old plan could have been continued by any insurer as long as they didn't significantly change the terms of the plan themselves.  If the insurer insisted on changing the deductible, max out-of-pocket, or the premiums by an amount not approximating inflation, then they had to meet the terms of all new plans.

However, if you liked your old plan you can keep it! The only caveat is that your old insurer must continue to sell you your old plan.  If they choose not to sell you the old plan, there's nothing the government can do to force them to.
2014-03-31 02:19:53 PM  
1 votes:

MechaPyx: Admittedly I'm not familiar with all the intricacies of insurance so I'm in the process of finding out lots of little details that I've never really had to deal with before. I find the whole thing extremely irritating. This is me being irritable. And venting.


You will have much less stress and anxiety in your life if you take the time to breathe and find out the facts of whatever situation is upsetting you before you go fighting monsters of your own creation.

/things my mother told me
//wish I had listened then instead of learning the hard way
///things I tell my children to which they probably aren't listening
////it's the circle of liiiiiiiiife....
2014-03-31 02:11:57 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: qorkfiend: bunner: What's so f*cking difficult about a society that values actual wealth creation, taxes all the money that moves around - even for the untouchable corporate whorehouses - and then untilizes the revenue to serve the needs of the governed?

Fundamental disagreement on what qualifies as "wealth creation" and "the needs of the governed"?

I'm pretty sure that "juggling debt derivatives" and "upgrading stealth bombers while people sit at the kitchen table with 140,000.00 hospital bills" is neither.


All joking aside, there are a lot of people who think "upgrading stealth bombers" and other national security expenditures are much more of a "need for the governed" than affordable medical care.
2014-03-31 02:09:40 PM  
1 votes:

MBrady: Witty_Retort: MBrady: Somacandra: You don't "sign up" for "Obamacare." The Federal and State exchanges merely facilitate the purchase of existing private insurance for those not already otherwise covered, or refer you to the existing Medicaid structure (if your state isn't run by asshats).

then make sure you tell all the news media that, because that is precisely what they are calling it.  Signing up for 0bamacare.

The only people I've ever seen call it Zero-bamacare are idiots.

The only people that blindly followed someone usually drank Kool-Aid laced with cyanide.

The only people that whine about insignificant crap are usually 12 year old school girls.  Are you one of those?


It was Flavor-Aid. History, FTW!
Cry moar over being called out.
2014-03-31 02:08:27 PM  
1 votes:

MechaPyx: Soup4Bonnie: MechaPyx: it's my understanding that because I live under the roof of a relative who does earn a wage and has health coverage through their employer I don't qualify for any kind of subsidy.

Who told you that?  Have you even tried to get insurance on the exchange?

Yes I tried. It was the healthcare.gov site that was telling me I didn't qualify for a subsidy because someone else in the household had coverage through their employer. I'm still unclear on household income vs my specific income affecting what I qualify for. I called to get some answers but they're understandably busy at the moment. They said they'd call back in 5-7 business days. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do actually call back.


"Household" means insurable family unit. Whomever you live with would only affect your insurance if you qualified to be covered under their insurance, i.e. a parent, and you are still young enough for them to cover you under their policy. If that's the case, you should be on their policy. If you live with an uncle or a sibling or something, their insurance coverage does not affect your eligibility in the slightest, because they can not put you on their policy.
2014-03-31 01:52:18 PM  
1 votes:

sdd2000: Soup4Bonnie: MechaPyx: it's my understanding that because I live under the roof of a relative who does earn a wage and has health coverage through their employer I don't qualify for any kind of subsidy.

Who told you that?  Have you even tried to get insurance on the exchange?

I think he was told that either by the Koch Brothers or by an email that had 8 or 9 FW: in the subject line.


We laugh but it really is that bad. Insurance brokers, especially ones in states that didn't take Medicaid expansion or create state exchanges, are doing very well right now sitting down with FW:FW:FW: readers and Facebook hoax believers. They're taking them onto Healthcare.gov (Which that person could've done at home for free, now the broker gets a cut) and putting their info into the forms so they can see what plans they can buy.

Some of these customers have expressed shock at learning that not only is the site "Obamacare," ALL insurance is "Obamacare." So you have people who actually believe Obamacare is a separate, government program like Medicare or Medicaid. They have NO idea the ACA is a law designed to provide private health insurance plans to as many people as possible. That's how deep the derp goes. Some have slurped the derp so much, they don't even know what they're herping about.

/I heard it on NPR if you want a source.
2014-03-31 01:51:22 PM  
1 votes:

Deftoons: Yes, by putting the government in control of it.


Good luck getting rid of Medicare and Tricare. I'm sure those constituents will love your twirling towards freedom.
2014-03-31 01:47:31 PM  
1 votes:

JusticeandIndependence: bunner: Insurance companies don't provide health care.  They provide rooms full of people who get paid to make sure your claim doesn't.  This is because health care is about a 3,000 % markup across the board for everything.  Medicine is an industry and like most industries, it's primary goal is to move money towards that indsutry and keep it.  If you get better in the process, oh happy day.

I'll take a bunch of crap that isn't true for $100, Alex


Sounds spot on to me. Maybe the percentage is off, but it's all about profit to them and their people do everything they can to find any problems in claims to reject it, even the companies that handle medicaid do everything they can to reject paying out.
2014-03-31 01:38:34 PM  
1 votes:

namegoeshere: MechaPyx: Sign up for healthcare or they're going fine me. Yeah sure. I don't have any money so go for it. Fine me. See if you can get blood from a stone. And because of my circumstances no I don't qualify for any kind of subsidy. My state is one of those that didn't extend Medicaid among other things.

Seriously, mandating that I have to buy stuff when I have no job or income is not helping. Excuse the fark out of me for being poor.

As has been pointed out several times so far, if you have no job or income, you are exempt from the penalty. Feel free to keep not having insurance.


I find it funny how all critics originally complained how many pages the law had.  Now they are secretly pissed off that all their bullshiat arguments are dealt with in all the complex provisions of the law.
2014-03-31 01:35:34 PM  
1 votes:
Insurance companies don't provide health care.  They provide rooms full of people who get paid to make sure your claim doesn't.  This is because health care is about a 3,000 % markup across the board for everything.  Medicine is an industry and like most industries, it's primary goal is to move money towards that indsutry and keep it.  If you get better in the process, oh happy day.
2014-03-31 01:32:00 PM  
1 votes:

verbaltoxin: sritzhaupt: [img.fark.net image 402x337]

FIVE single payer supporters, ah-ah-ah!!


You ever notice how now some of the Republicans shills are all now screaming that ACA is a failure because it isn't a single payer system, and we need a single payer system? Remember before ACA was signed into law that these same people were screaming that any government subsidized health insurance program, especially a single payer system, was evil socialism and needed to be abolished? Kinda of funny how now they are all screaming for a single payer system, something that they were dead against and something that ACA is transitioning us into, all of a sudden.
2014-03-31 01:17:06 PM  
1 votes:

whistleridge: I'm going to go with 'when you're working for $11/hr, paying an average of $1300 for rent with 3 roommates, have a car payment, a student loan payment/kids to feed/both, and zero savings, an extra couple hundred a month for health insurance is one hit to your wallet that you will avoid for as long as possible'. It's not that people are stupid, lazy, or disinterested in their health, it's that the real problems of today (my roommate didn't pay rent, I need $450 TODAY) outweigh the potential problems of tomorrow (I could get sick).


Also...it's complicated. TOO complicated.

Make it cheap, make it easy, and you incentivize people to buy in. Right now, it's pricey, it's complicated, and there's no real penalty for ducking...so they will. I'd bet $5 on it.


1.bp.blogspot.com

"Why don't you just ask your parent's for the money? Or sell some stock, that's what I did when I was 'broke' in college!"

2014-03-31 01:15:22 PM  
1 votes:

williesleg: Funny how everybody's in a rush to get health INSURANCE.

Wait 'till they find out health INSURANCE is NOT health CARE.


This is your big entrance?  This is what you waited all morning to post?  This?
2014-03-31 01:06:15 PM  
1 votes:

MechaPyx: My state is one of those that didn't extend Medicaid among other things.


i'm sorry your representatives cared more about grandstanding, misinforming the general public and sticking it to the dirty Libs rather than your personal needs.
2014-03-31 01:05:49 PM  
1 votes:

Launch Code: barry has been focused like a laser beam on his signature scheme for about 5 years. That's why obamacare is so great. Yes lies were told about keeping your plan, keeping your doctor, saving you money, costing under a trillion at only 900 billion. The most transparent administration can't tell anyone how many obamacare sign ups actually paid, how many signups are young/healthy types, how many signups got kicked off plans and had to get obamacare. This is because most Americans are too stupid to understand how great obamacare is. It has to be great because barry has been telling us how great it is for years. Dems only had to spend about 600 million tax dollars promoting it. That's less than 600 Super Bowl commercials. That alone should tell you how great obamacare is. It's darn near perfect if you ask me. It's so great that every single democrat in congress voted for obamacare. That includes all the Senators up for reelection in the fall of 2014. They wouldn't support this knowing their cushy political careers were in jeopardy if it wasn't great.
Get your lazy selves in gear and sign up for this free healthcare. It only costs about $250 - $1000 a month. Think of it as paying your fair share.
If you don't sign up, then you're a RACIST!



Game shows
2014-03-31 01:05:09 PM  
1 votes:

Serious Black: xanadian: FTFA:  An administration spokesman said the website is usually offline for maintenance overnight, and was brought down for four extra hours by a technical glitch

Good thing there isn't a deadline or anything that could end up costing individual taxpayers $95 or 1% of their annual income, whichever is higher...

*facepalm*

/of course, there's something to be said for not procrastinating, but still

Once again, I ask who the hell was actually awake and desperate to work on their health insurance application at 3:30am? I can understand being desperate to work on it today at some point, but in the wee hours of the morning?


Why would you even risk an update on the night of a deadline...........................
2014-03-31 01:02:44 PM  
1 votes:
barry has been focused like a laser beam on his signature scheme for about 5 years. That's why obamacare is so great. Yes lies were told about keeping your plan, keeping your doctor, saving you money, costing under a trillion at only 900 billion. The most transparent administration can't tell anyone how many obamacare sign ups actually paid, how many signups are young/healthy types, how many signups got kicked off plans and had to get obamacare. This is because most Americans are too stupid to understand how great obamacare is. It has to be great because barry has been telling us how great it is for years. Dems only had to spend about 600 million tax dollars promoting it. That's less than 600 Super Bowl commercials. That alone should tell you how great obamacare is. It's darn near perfect if you ask me. It's so great that every single democrat in congress voted for obamacare. That includes all the Senators up for reelection in the fall of 2014. They wouldn't support this knowing their cushy political careers were in jeopardy if it wasn't great.
Get your lazy selves in gear and sign up for this free healthcare. It only costs about $250 - $1000 a month. Think of it as paying your fair share.
If you don't sign up, then you're a RACIST!
2014-03-31 01:02:13 PM  
1 votes:

Summercat: Complex shiat needs comex rules and we live in a complex society. You are kidding yourself if you think simple answers will be flexable enough to work.


Systems get more complex as they get more intrusive and controlling.  When it comes to taxes, a sales tax is pretty fair.  The more money you have to spend, the more money you get charged in taxes.  If you want to exclude a necessity like food, that's a pretty simple fix.   If you venture into property taxes, income taxes, and corporate taxes, that will be much more complex.  But when you start passing out favors to various constituent groups and campaign donors is when it explodes beyond comprehension.  There is no way a rational tax code requires 5000 sections just in Title D.  The result is a tax code that is incomprehensible even to those whose job it is to administer it.

The sheer size and complexity of the Affordable Care Act is what will doom it to failure.  Add to that the seemingly weekly changes, delays, waivers, new regulations and there won't even be an agency capable of knowing what the law is, let alone actually administer it.
2014-03-31 12:58:19 PM  
1 votes:
Less than a million people actually lost health insurance indirectly because of the ACA. There has been a net gain of 9.5 million insured Americans.

Link
2014-03-31 12:57:45 PM  
1 votes:

pnome: atomic-age: machoprogrammer: How about just nationalize it instead of pushing legislation allowing the insurance companies to profit?

Because a) the Republicans and Medicare recipients shiat their pants over that idea and b) we were in a recession at the time and the insurance industry would have had mass layoffs.

All this talk about Republicans.  Not one single Republican voted for it.  So, can you please stop blaming Republicans?  They had nothing to do with Obamacare. It's 100% Democrat.  For good or ill.


Was this before or after the ACA was amended/altered in accordance with negotiation with Republicans who then said "No" to the entire deal?
2014-03-31 12:55:43 PM  
1 votes:
We're 17,000,000,000,000.00 in debt and we're still cutting checks.  Mostly to the people who already have whatever actual wealth is left in their sock drawers.  This ain't gonna fix sh*t.
2014-03-31 12:46:36 PM  
1 votes:
Yeah, 0bummercare is great.  It might help my family.  Circus performers, and other high-risk groups not so much.  In the Bizarro-world of left-wing blog posts, I suppose this counts as a success.  But wisdom is like pearls before swine for you social parasites.  I suppose you think what's good for urban populations is what is good for real Americans living in the boondocks.  The impact hits close to home when you realize that if you merely miss a date to sign up, you could now be a criminal.  Or, sign up with all those other millions of new patients, and end up only being able to get into see a doctor who prescribes pickles if you're pregnant. But appealing to the betterment of the downtrodden is red meat to limousine liberals, and so now every welfare queen with a Cadillac full of rugrats can now afford to go overboard on their healthcare without ending up in the penalty box.  Of course, when our nation is sinking like the Titanic under the fifth wave of debt, it will take all of you out of the gene pool.  Don't cry to me when the debt dunes bury this nation.
2014-03-31 12:35:40 PM  
1 votes:
Barry, all things considered, has done a few useful things in his tenure.  Which, after all, isn't easy because, at the end of the day, he president is a sock puppet / scapegoat.  Forcing people to buy sketchy insurance from a selection of coporate whorehouses instead of working for socialized medicine, however, is not one of them.  This whole thing stinks to high heaven and when your government starts fining you for not having money, it's time to start packing.
2014-03-31 12:34:57 PM  
1 votes:

Chris Ween: whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?

If I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others?  Isn't this kinda of a minor milestone since, years after passage, most of those 30 million are still going to be uncovered?

This is strange.  Maybe there weren't 30 million in need.  Or maybe people just can't be trusted to get their own coverage...even when spoon fed and forced to at tax penalty point.


7 million is only the number of people signing up for coverage through public exchanges. The CBO also estimated a roughly equal amount of people signing up for coverage through private insurers outside of the exchanges and an even larger amount were supposed to be covered under Medicaid until the Supreme Court decision in 2012.

It's probably going to be 15 million-20 million covered by the law once this is finished, all told.
2014-03-31 12:33:26 PM  
1 votes:
Health Insurance "Scamming Middleman between you and your doctor since 1930"
2014-03-31 12:32:10 PM  
1 votes:

Summercat: Mr. Right: Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.

The real problem is that there actually is a Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986.  Can we simplify the damned thing, eliminate all the loopholes (which only the rich have enough tax liability to use), reduce the percentage of our national productivity consumed by tax tracking and preparation, and reduce the necessity of armies of IRS workers?

Will Rogers posited that "The income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf has."

Simple answe cause im on my phone:

Real life is a complex biatch if you try to make effective rules, and the more pieces and people involved the more rules you have to have to keep things from flying apart.

Things get complex for a reason.


And that reason is lawyers. Companies hire lawyers to root out every loophole they can find and exploit to improve their bottom line, which means the laws have to be thorough.

I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but if the ACA were ten pages long, the insurance companies' legal departments would have found a way to screw as many people as possible in a matter of days.
2014-03-31 12:29:23 PM  
1 votes:

bullsballs: I have coverage, but I am not going to enroll.
EVERYONE NOT EXEMPT MUST ENROLL...
but I refuse to do so...


Know how I know you don't actually understand what's going on?
2014-03-31 12:28:27 PM  
1 votes:
So tomorrow is when the economy collapses and Obama finally reveals his plans to convert all of AMerica to Islam?  That's what Obamacare is going to do right?
2014-03-31 12:28:17 PM  
1 votes:

Witty_Retort: coffeeplease: Waiting patiently to see the $2,500 in cost savings Obama promised I would see.

Considering your comments, I doubt you are an Average American.

/i saved only $2,200 per year, so Obama is a big fat poopyhead liar.


^This. I went from no insurance to having free insurance so I saved jack shiat.

/Obama lied. Ben Ghazi died.
2014-03-31 12:25:32 PM  
1 votes:
In my state I can contact any insurance agent and get health insurance that meets the requirements of the ACA.   I can also go to the website of BCBS or Coventry directly and sign up online at either place.

The healthcare.gov is only one of the many many options that one can use to get healthcare.  It's a somewhat useful tool, but it's also not needed to get health insurance through an exchange.

I got my $205/mo gold plan as a 42 year old male by going directly to the BCBS of Kansas web site.  I'm a contractor with a few minor pre-existing conditions (that I don't currently require additional medication or treatment for, but I may someday).
2014-03-31 12:25:28 PM  
1 votes:

James!: So after tomorrow when the world doesn't end do you think republicans will stop being such morons?


I think we already know that answer.

images.wikia.com
2014-03-31 12:22:46 PM  
1 votes:

Chris Ween: Most of those enrolled may have selected the marketplace options instead of their employer options.


Count me as one of these.  Company was paying $450/month for shiatty Aetna coverage, and through the ACA, I found fantastic coverage for $442/month. I managed to convince my boss to give me the $450/month instead of Aetna, and I'm in a much better position today than 3 months ago.  Prescriptions for a chronic condition that cost me thousands a year before will now cost me hundreds a year.

/I know not everyone has a boss who will work with them.  YMMV.
2014-03-31 12:21:12 PM  
1 votes:
I remember when I was back in college, and some poor souls tried to register for classes the day before registration closed. The computers always crashed. Always.

You know what the response was from the administrators?

"Ya'll are dumbshiats for trying to register at the last minute. You've had 4 months to register, and if you really cared about your schooling you would have done it by now."

It amazes me that large swaths of people would put off caring about their health until the very last second.
2014-03-31 12:17:48 PM  
1 votes:

I alone am best: Witty_Retort: I alone am best: Oh, I see. That changes things, or it doesnt. Yeah, I am going to just use the same argument I used last time for this post.

Sorry reality doesn't match your pre-approved talking points.

Says the guy who is cyber stalking a Senator from another state so he can upvote anecdotal stories from other people cyber stalking the same senator.


I was going to read your comment, but I'm afraid you'd report me for stalking.
2014-03-31 12:15:25 PM  
1 votes:

I alone am best: It is amazing that 6 million people threatened with a penalty actually followed the law! This is just like the amazing popularity that the IRS commands. Just look at how many people filed taxes! The government is on a roll.


Delude yourself into thinking all 6 million people were dragged into buying insurance by the power of legislation if you'd like, but many of those people (whether they made a cameo on Cruz's fb or not) are happily signing up and thankful that they are now allowed to buy insurance.  The young invincibles will eventually figure out that getting subsidized insurance is a hell of a lot better than not being covered and paying a fine.  The enrollments will swell over time and people will wonder why it took us so long to get some reform.
2014-03-31 12:12:59 PM  
1 votes:

BeesNuts: dok9874: I just got laid off, so that's my Hardship #14. Not sure how I'm going to provide documentation of not receiving a paycheck anymore though.

File for unemployment.  They typically confirm with your employer that you were really laid off, and they include a statement about your earnings, and the date of your last paycheck in the info packets they mail you.

Whether you qualify or not it's a convenient way to obtain proof that you're unemployed as far as the state is concerned.


He should probably receive info about COBRA regardless. Granted, it probably doesn't make financial sense to go with COBRA now that the exchanges exist, but that packet should have enough info to prove the recent change in employment status. Also, if he "just got laid off", then he can head on over to the exchange website and sign up without having to bother with any of this. This guy's not trying to get answers, he's trying to spread FUD.
2014-03-31 12:11:30 PM  
1 votes:

MemeSlave: James!: So after tomorrow when the world doesn't end do you think republicans will stop being such morons?

Because it's "The Republicans" which are the problem.


or the last 10-12 years, they have been. They and their offspring the Tea Party. Oh, and those other morons who left the Republican party to become "Libertarians" without bothering to pay attention to what it entails. These splitoffs were both originally part of the Republican Party.
2014-03-31 12:09:33 PM  
1 votes:

dok9874: Except that buying insurance directly from the provider, or say through ehealthinsurance.com, doesn't HAVE "enrollment periods".


Um, no. Private insurers have always had enrollment periods.
2014-03-31 12:08:15 PM  
1 votes:

dok9874: Except that buying insurance directly from the provider, or say through ehealthinsurance.com, doesn't HAVE "enrollment periods".


Go to ehealthinsurance.com right now. Just the front page. Take a look at what it says.
2014-03-31 12:06:42 PM  
1 votes:
Does one have the right to complain that the website is down when one has actively tried to bring it down?

Seriously, this is why I don't trust anyone who claims to be a Republican. This is how far they're willing to go to prevent the opposition from having a single victory.

They're not scared of the ACA because they think it'll fail. They're scared because they think it'll succeed.
2014-03-31 12:05:18 PM  
1 votes:
Well that settles it. Obamacare is a failure. Institute single player at once.
2014-03-31 12:04:21 PM  
1 votes:

Dafatone: dittybopper: Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.


Doesn't mean they won't get charged with something else, or that they IRS won't dun them, or that in a year or two the law will be changed so that they can be prosecuted/liened/levied.

How the fark is this an argument!?!?

"It's not true.  But it could be true in the future if they change it!"

Wtf is this shiat?  Seriously.  What the fark is this shiat.


A friend who's a cop told me that all those radar enforced roadways are taking pictures of you plates and later they are going to change the speed limit and send out retro active speeding tickets.

He's pretty sure it's going to happen in the near future.

Trust me
2014-03-31 12:03:37 PM  
1 votes:
Well, before we declare the whole thing a failure and whargable everywhere what would actually constitute a "failure" of the plan? In my opinion:

1. If the number of uninsured doesn't drop in any significant way. The number is estimated at 30m. I think dropping that number to 20m would be a success.

2. If the price of healthcare increases. Reducing emergency room visits by the uninsured was one of the major goals of the program. If the price of healthcare increases then frankly everyone was monetarily better off sending the poor to the ER when they get ill.
2014-03-31 12:03:36 PM  
1 votes:

glassa: single payer = single denier. And if you want to sign over your entire body to the control of federal government (who can't find their ass from a hole in the ground), fine have fun with that. The rest of us don't want that nightmare, so don't inflict it on us.


I would much rather put it in the hands of for-profit insurance companies because they really care about me.
2014-03-31 12:01:28 PM  
1 votes:

advex101: The only thing that matters here as far as whether ACA is going to stay or not is this:  are the insurance companies for it or against it?


I'm assuming they are going to be for it because the only alternative will be single-payer.  They have a vested interest in it and insuring they keep on getting their 30% cut even thought they don't provide any service of actual use.
2014-03-31 11:57:16 AM  
1 votes:

whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?


After the freaking mess that this whole thing has caused, you want to give the feds ENTIRE control over all of it?  You unimaginable fool!

single payer = single denier.  And if you want to sign over your entire body to the control of federal government (who can't find their ass from a hole in the ground), fine have fun with that.  The rest of us don't want that nightmare, so don't inflict it on us.

If you don't think the feds will use the healthcare system as a weapon against their political enemies, the way they use the IRS, you're an even bigger fool.  And remember, the Dems won't always be the ones in charge.  So you may be the one with the target on your back.  Don't put it past them.

I don't trust the government enough to give them complete control over everything like that.  But it's cute that you do.
2014-03-31 11:52:48 AM  
1 votes:

adamatari: Why is there even an "enrollment period"? Isn't it part of the point of this that people can get healthcare without having to worry about "sorry you can only sign up once a year, so you have to wait 9 months now, newby"? Or is this for tax purposes - "you missed the period, so now you have to pay the tax for the year, though you signed up a day later"?

What about people who lose their jobs randomly and such? If I lose my job in May, will I be able to sign up for Obamacare or do I have to wait until January of next year?

This is the sort of shiat we were trying to get away from....


hey, go here for the answer to your question:
https://www.healthcare.gov/what-key-dates-do-i-need-to-know/

A: Open Enrollment resumes on November 15, 2014, not next January
B: Lost your job? Got Married? Got Divorced?  Birth of a Child?  That is a LIFE CHANGING EVENT (see above link) that qualifies you for a SPECIAL ENROLLMENT PERIOD
2014-03-31 11:49:30 AM  
1 votes:
Wait until the employer mandate kicks in, almost everyone who works for a living will only be able to afford a $5000 deductible plan. That's a tax folks, the largest in the history of our country.
2014-03-31 11:47:36 AM  
1 votes:

I alone am best: Witty_Retort: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 551x844]
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 545x852]
Quick poll: Obamacare was signed into law four years ago yesterday. Are you better off now than you were then?

A bunch of Liberals following a Republican senator on facebook. Seems like a legit commentary from 100% of the country, not a bunch of moonbats who have nothing better to do.


If you had bothered to click the provided link, you would see that those are the top rated comments for his page.
But if a conspiracy is much easier for your simple mind to comprehend then that people actually like the law, go let your freak flag fly.
2014-03-31 11:46:39 AM  
1 votes:

Dafatone: Wtf is this shiat?


utterly predictable and in no way surprising is what it is
2014-03-31 11:46:17 AM  
1 votes:

whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?


Because this phase gave you total confidence in the government's ability to not screw up single payer just as badly?
2014-03-31 11:45:02 AM  
1 votes:

mrshowrules: Tom_Slick: mrshowrules: So screw over the people for which the penalty was the deciding factor in getting insurance?

In an election year, absolutely.

but every 2nd year in an election year...


Here is what is going to happen, the Administration is going to "Look into issues that may have prevented people from signing up" this will begin sometime in May, around September, they will look at polling numbers to see if it is effecting the House and Senate races.  If it has a negative effect they will roll the fine back for a year.
2014-03-31 11:43:56 AM  
1 votes:

Witty_Retort: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 551x844]
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 545x852]
Quick poll: Obamacare was signed into law four years ago yesterday. Are you better off now than you were then?


A bunch of Liberals following a Republican senator on facebook. Seems like a legit commentary from 100% of the country, not a bunch of moonbats who have nothing better to do.
2014-03-31 11:40:04 AM  
1 votes:
OBAMACARE DEATH PANELS ARE REAL!!
s3.amazonaws.com
2014-03-31 11:39:15 AM  
1 votes:

mrshowrules: If I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others?  Isn't this kinda of a minor milestone since, years after passage, most of those 30 million are still going to be uncovered?

This is strange.  Maybe there weren't 30 million in need.  Or maybe people just can't be trusted to get their own coverage...even when spoon fed and forced to at tax penalty point.

So the problem is that is only reducing the uninsured?  Not clear on what your point is.

Keep in mind that this represents millions of people who couldn't get insurance before but wanted to.  Not sure on the precise number but for these people, Obamacare is actually a rainbow shiatting unicorn.

Secondly, this reduces the burden on hundreds of millions of responsible insurance holders because they won't have to cover as much in terms of emergency room visits from the uninsured.

Finally, every single American benefits from the consumer protections in Obamacare, not to mention the fringe economic benefits of having your health care security detached from your employer, not to mention the likely reduction in medical bankruptcies going forward.

To say there are still many uninsured is short sighted.  Also, moving the goal post because the actual GOP guarantee was actually that Obamacare was going to destroy the country and cause 1,000 years of darkness


I'm going to go with 'when you're working for $11/hr, paying an average of $1300 for rent with 3 roommates, have a car payment, a student loan payment/kids to feed/both, and zero savings, an extra couple hundred a month for health insurance is one hit to your wallet that you will avoid for as long as possible'. It's not that people are stupid, lazy, or disinterested in their health, it's that the real problems of today (my roommate didn't pay rent, I need $450 TODAY) outweigh the potential problems of tomorrow (I could get sick).

Also...it's complicated. TOO complicated.

Make it cheap, make it easy, and you incentivize people to buy in. Right now, it's pricey, it's complicated, and there's no real penalty for ducking...so they will. I'd bet $5 on it.
2014-03-31 11:32:16 AM  
1 votes:

James!: So after tomorrow when the world doesn't end do you think republicans will stop being such morons?


Because it's "The Republicans" which are the problem.
2014-03-31 11:12:32 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Somacandra: dittybopper: If you just ignore section of your tax return on the insurance part, or lie and say you have insurance when you don't actually have it, they'll prosecute you for filing a frivolous return.

You mean to tell me that the Federal government might take a dim view of cheating on one's taxes? Fetch me my laudanum! I have with the vapours!

I was pointing out that the whole "We won't prosecute" thing only applies to a small percentage of the possible cases.

So it's not *QUITE* a lie, but it's not wholly truthful either.


Yes, but they won't be prosecuted for not paying the fine in that scenario you described. They'll be prosecuted for a tax issue that is, at the absolute most, tangentially related to them not paying the fine.
2014-03-31 11:08:46 AM  
1 votes:

Chris Ween: Most of those enrolled may have selected the marketplace options instead of their employer options.


That would indeed be interesting if it were true. Especially since those with employer-sponsored coverage (like me) are not eligible for any exchange subsidies.
2014-03-31 11:08:10 AM  
1 votes:

Chris Ween: James!: Chris Ween: Government option

You know, they tried to include that.  Those folks you vote for decided it was a back door to single payer and blocked it.

Doesn't change that I wanted it, and it was the best option.

I didn't want Kentucky to be allowed to shoot that three yesterday with 2.3 seconds left either.  But I still support Michigan.


I don't follow hockey.
2014-03-31 11:02:34 AM  
1 votes:

Somacandra: Chris Ween: f I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others

Agreed. While we're at it, We should get rid of all fire departments because fires still happen. The best way to solve a problem is by ignoring it.


Government option or single payer.  The ACA is needlessly complicated and solves one problem while creating 10.

But, as I said, don't hurt yourself patting your back.  Most of those enrolled may have selected the marketplace options instead of their employer options.  So, this isn't even 7 million of the 30 million uninsured.  I think we will see that the ACA made some things more affordable, many things more complicated, and fixed very little in terms of obtaining coverage for the uninsured.
2014-03-31 10:53:57 AM  
1 votes:

whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?


If I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others?  Isn't this kinda of a minor milestone since, years after passage, most of those 30 million are still going to be uncovered?

This is strange.  Maybe there weren't 30 million in need.  Or maybe people just can't be trusted to get their own coverage...even when spoon fed and forced to at tax penalty point.
2014-03-31 10:53:55 AM  
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: ManateeGag: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

I doubt there is one adult in this country that has never broken ANY law.  even mundane or obscure shiat.

That makes it ok.


no, but don't act like we are suddenly make hundreds of thousands of people into criminals where they were innocent little lambs before.
2014-03-31 10:52:01 AM  
1 votes:
And now we see the republican ignore the actual law and skip off into the land hypothetical doom.
2014-03-31 10:26:26 AM  
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?


From that link.

The only way for the IRS to collect the fee for not having health insurance, if you choose not to pay it, is for them to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns. The IRS cannot enforce the Individual Shared Responsibility provision with jail time, liens, or any other of typical methods of collection.
2014-03-31 10:17:51 AM  
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.

Tell Obama that.


Obama is in charge of the Kaiser Family Foundation now? Shiat, next you'll tell me that he was the guy who oversalted my french fries last night!
2014-03-31 10:13:29 AM  
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!


Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.
2014-03-31 10:10:01 AM  
1 votes:

Jackson Herring: obamacare isn't a service you can sign up for, I hope this helps


I'm pretty sure Obamacare is something you register for that allows treatment to be determined by Nancy Pelosi and delivered by Acorn health providers.
2014-03-31 10:05:47 AM  
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!


I doubt there is one adult in this country that has never broken ANY law.  even mundane or obscure shiat.
2014-03-31 09:57:12 AM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: So the site was down or a few minutes


HISTORY'S GREATEST MONSTER!!!
2014-03-31 09:49:28 AM  
1 votes:
FTFA:  An administration spokesman said the website is usually offline for maintenance overnight, and was brought down for four extra hours by a technical glitch

Good thing there isn't a deadline or anything that could end up costing individual taxpayers $95 or 1% of their annual income, whichever is higher...

*facepalm*

/of course, there's something to be said for not procrastinating, but still
2014-03-31 09:46:34 AM  
1 votes:

whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?


So screw over the people for which the penalty was the deciding factor in getting insurance?

When you have the choice of farking with one group of people or another, err on the side of the law.
 
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