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(NBC News)   Reminder: Today is your last day of open enrollment and you must sign up for Obamacare now. The Obamacare web site has been helpfully rendered inoperable for your convenience   (nbcnews.com) divider line 611
    More: Fail, obamacare  
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3751 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Mar 2014 at 11:27 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-31 09:27:20 AM  
Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?
 
2014-03-31 09:36:46 AM  
Too bad healthcare.gov is back up now. Makes the overnight outage seem more like a bit of scheduled maintenance before the last day of signups than anything else.

/who really wanted to work on their application at 3:30am anyway?
 
2014-03-31 09:41:29 AM  
Um, it works perfectly fine.
 
2014-03-31 09:46:34 AM  

whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?


So screw over the people for which the penalty was the deciding factor in getting insurance?

When you have the choice of farking with one group of people or another, err on the side of the law.
 
2014-03-31 09:49:28 AM  
FTFA:  An administration spokesman said the website is usually offline for maintenance overnight, and was brought down for four extra hours by a technical glitch

Good thing there isn't a deadline or anything that could end up costing individual taxpayers $95 or 1% of their annual income, whichever is higher...

*facepalm*

/of course, there's something to be said for not procrastinating, but still
 
2014-03-31 09:50:05 AM  
You don't "sign up" for "Obamacare." The Federal and State exchanges merely facilitate the purchase of existing private insurance for those not already otherwise covered, or refer you to the existing Medicaid structure (if your state isn't run by asshats).
 
2014-03-31 09:52:13 AM  

xanadian: Good thing there isn't a deadline or anything that could end up costing individual taxpayers $95 or 1% of their annual income, whichever is higher...


Or you could...you know....call an insurance agent today in the town where you live. Like people have been doing for years.
 
2014-03-31 09:55:39 AM  
So the site was down or a few minutes and its a headline?
 
2014-03-31 09:57:12 AM  

DamnYankees: So the site was down or a few minutes


HISTORY'S GREATEST MONSTER!!!
 
2014-03-31 09:57:29 AM  

DamnYankees: So the site was down or a few minutes and its a headline?


it's a deliberate tax grab attempt by 0bummer to steal my hard earned money!
 
2014-03-31 09:59:04 AM  

xanadian: FTFA:  An administration spokesman said the website is usually offline for maintenance overnight, and was brought down for four extra hours by a technical glitch


Good thing there isn't a deadline or anything that could end up costing individual taxpayers $95 or 1% of their annual income, whichever is higher...

*facepalm*

/of course, there's something to be said for not procrastinating, but still


Once again, I ask who the hell was actually awake and desperate to work on their health insurance application at 3:30am? I can understand being desperate to work on it today at some point, but in the wee hours of the morning?
 
2014-03-31 10:00:51 AM  
And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!
 
2014-03-31 10:01:25 AM  

DamnYankees: So the site was down or a few minutes and its a headline?


Obama lied.  He will always betray you.  The Obamacare implosion continues.

/amidoingitirght
 
2014-03-31 10:04:39 AM  

mrshowrules: DamnYankees: So the site was down or a few minutes and its a headline?

Obama lied.  He will always betray you.  The Obamacare implosion continues.

/amidoingitirght


Obamacare raped my mother while pouring sugar into my gas tank.
 
2014-03-31 10:05:47 AM  

R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!


I doubt there is one adult in this country that has never broken ANY law.  even mundane or obscure shiat.
 
2014-03-31 10:07:12 AM  
obamacare isn't a service you can sign up for, I hope this helps
 
2014-03-31 10:08:51 AM  

ManateeGag: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

I doubt there is one adult in this country that has never broken ANY law.  even mundane or obscure shiat.


That makes it ok.
 
2014-03-31 10:10:01 AM  

Jackson Herring: obamacare isn't a service you can sign up for, I hope this helps


I'm pretty sure Obamacare is something you register for that allows treatment to be determined by Nancy Pelosi and delivered by Acorn health providers.
 
2014-03-31 10:13:29 AM  

R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!


Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.
 
2014-03-31 10:15:24 AM  

Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.


Tell Obama that.
 
2014-03-31 10:15:51 AM  
So after tomorrow when the world doesn't end do you think republicans will stop being such morons?
 
2014-03-31 10:17:21 AM  

R.A.Danny: Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.

Tell Obama that.


Your thing doesn't contradict his thing.
 
2014-03-31 10:17:51 AM  

R.A.Danny: Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.

Tell Obama that.


Obama is in charge of the Kaiser Family Foundation now? Shiat, next you'll tell me that he was the guy who oversalted my french fries last night!
 
2014-03-31 10:19:55 AM  

R.A.Danny: Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.

Tell Obama that.


Not real clear on the whole "no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay" thing are we?
 
2014-03-31 10:22:49 AM  
This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?
 
2014-03-31 10:22:56 AM  

Serious Black: Once again, I ask who the hell was actually awake and desperate to work on their health insurance application at 3:30am? I can understand being desperate to work on it today at some point, but in the wee hours of the morning?


To be fair, people with horrific hours at horrific jobs with no insurance could be doing that.

Also, Americans traveling abroad in Zanzibar.
 
2014-03-31 10:24:37 AM  

R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?


Except for nobody said that.
 
2014-03-31 10:25:14 AM  

R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?


www.biopoliticaltimes.org

You explicitly said, and I quote: "And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!" Now you are saying they will be subjected to a tax, fine, or other penalty. There is a Grand Canyon-sized chasm between those two things. Stop moving the Goddamn goalposts and admit you were wrong.
 
2014-03-31 10:26:18 AM  
So far, 10 million more people have health insurance- either privately or through medicaid expansion- than had it before.
 
2014-03-31 10:26:26 AM  

R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?


From that link.

The only way for the IRS to collect the fee for not having health insurance, if you choose not to pay it, is for them to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns. The IRS cannot enforce the Individual Shared Responsibility provision with jail time, liens, or any other of typical methods of collection.
 
2014-03-31 10:29:18 AM  

James!: R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?

From that link.

The only way for the IRS to collect the fee for not having health insurance, if you choose not to pay it, is for them to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns. The IRS cannot enforce the Individual Shared Responsibility provision with jail time, liens, or any other of typical methods of collection.


That's my point. Why is there an enumerated penalty if there's no "legal" way to collect?
 
2014-03-31 10:34:00 AM  

R.A.Danny: James!: R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?

From that link.

The only way for the IRS to collect the fee for not having health insurance, if you choose not to pay it, is for them to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns. The IRS cannot enforce the Individual Shared Responsibility provision with jail time, liens, or any other of typical methods of collection.

That's my point. Why is there an enumerated penalty if there's no "legal" way to collect?


There is a legal way to collect. It's for them to "to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns."

As noted in the link YOU provided and I just quoted back to you.
 
2014-03-31 10:34:11 AM  

R.A.Danny: James!: R.A.Danny: This one better? It's from the "other" side.

Or is anyone here going to step and tell us that there will be no tax, fine, or other penalty?

From that link.

The only way for the IRS to collect the fee for not having health insurance, if you choose not to pay it, is for them to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns. The IRS cannot enforce the Individual Shared Responsibility provision with jail time, liens, or any other of typical methods of collection.

That's my point. Why is there an enumerated penalty if there's no "legal" way to collect?


Likely because the drafters of that provision knew people who irrationally hate Obama and the Democrats were trying to declare everyone in the country criminals. What they forgot is that people like you would make that argument regardless of knowing whether it is true or false because it fits seamlessly into a pre-existing narrative about how Obama is a megalomaniacal dictator hellbent on remaking America in his image.
 
2014-03-31 10:47:17 AM  
Signed up my mother-in-law a few weeks ago.  It was surprisingly cheap and painless.

I assume this makes me worse than Hitler.
 
2014-03-31 10:49:14 AM  

Serious Black: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

Section 5000A(g)(2) of Subtitle D of the IRS Code of 1986 says that no taxpayer can be subjected to criminal prosecution or have a lien or levy filed against their property for failure to pay the individual shared responsibility payment.


Doesn't mean they won't get charged with something else, or that they IRS won't dun them, or that in a year or two the law will be changed so that they can be prosecuted/liened/levied.

Plus, I see some practical difficulties.

If you just ignore section of your tax return on the insurance part, or lie and say you have insurance when you don't actually have it, they'll prosecute you for filing a frivolous return.

Really, the *ONLY* way I can see people not getting in legal trouble here is if they file a return where they owe money, and they don't send the portion of what they owe which they honestly calculate is their penalty for not having insurance.  Say the total they owe is $300 and the penalty is $95, and they send a check for $205, that sort of thing.

Which will be a small percentage.  Everyone else who breaks even or is due a refund would have to lie on their tax forms in order to not pay the penalty, and I'm willing to bet that's prosecutable.

Of course, they could also say "Hey, we subtracted out the penalty first, so you've only paid $110 of the $205 in taxes you owe", that sort of thing.  And they'd be completely honest that they aren't prosecuting or levying or placing a lien because you didn't pay the penalty.
 
2014-03-31 10:52:01 AM  
And now we see the republican ignore the actual law and skip off into the land hypothetical doom.
 
2014-03-31 10:53:55 AM  

R.A.Danny: ManateeGag: R.A.Danny: And tomorrow there will be hundreds of thousands more criminals in the US. YAY!

I doubt there is one adult in this country that has never broken ANY law.  even mundane or obscure shiat.

That makes it ok.


no, but don't act like we are suddenly make hundreds of thousands of people into criminals where they were innocent little lambs before.
 
2014-03-31 10:53:57 AM  

whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?


If I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others?  Isn't this kinda of a minor milestone since, years after passage, most of those 30 million are still going to be uncovered?

This is strange.  Maybe there weren't 30 million in need.  Or maybe people just can't be trusted to get their own coverage...even when spoon fed and forced to at tax penalty point.
 
2014-03-31 10:54:18 AM  
Pfft...just don't file your taxes and make sure to claim plenty of deductions on your W-4.
 
2014-03-31 10:57:09 AM  

dittybopper: If you just ignore section of your tax return on the insurance part, or lie and say you have insurance when you don't actually have it, they'll prosecute you for filing a frivolous return.


You mean to tell me that the Federal government might take a dim view of cheating on one's taxes? Fetch me my laudanum! I have with the vapours!
 
2014-03-31 10:57:48 AM  

Somacandra: dittybopper: If you just ignore section of your tax return on the insurance part, or lie and say you have insurance when you don't actually have it, they'll prosecute you for filing a frivolous return.

You mean to tell me that the Federal government might take a dim view of cheating on one's taxes? Fetch me my laudanum! I have with the vapours!


Seeing how little I earned last year, I think my return will be called frivolous anyway.
 
2014-03-31 10:59:03 AM  

Chris Ween: f I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others


Agreed. While we're at it, We should get rid of all fire departments because fires still happen. The best way to solve a problem is by ignoring it.
 
2014-03-31 11:02:34 AM  

Somacandra: Chris Ween: f I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others

Agreed. While we're at it, We should get rid of all fire departments because fires still happen. The best way to solve a problem is by ignoring it.


Government option or single payer.  The ACA is needlessly complicated and solves one problem while creating 10.

But, as I said, don't hurt yourself patting your back.  Most of those enrolled may have selected the marketplace options instead of their employer options.  So, this isn't even 7 million of the 30 million uninsured.  I think we will see that the ACA made some things more affordable, many things more complicated, and fixed very little in terms of obtaining coverage for the uninsured.
 
2014-03-31 11:04:55 AM  

Chris Ween: Government option


You know, they tried to include that.  Those folks you vote for decided it was a back door to single payer and blocked it.
 
2014-03-31 11:05:52 AM  

Chris Ween: whistleridge: Or, you know, just  don't sign up. I'm sure when 25,000,000 people all complain, they'll wind up just waiving it for the year. There's simply no way they try to enforce this in an election year. As bad as it is to cave, it would be far, far worse to fine a bunch of people.

/ can we have single-payer yet?

If I recall, Obama ran on the idea that 30 million people were not covered by health insurance.  How is an enrollment goal of 7 million by today going to solve it for the others?  Isn't this kinda of a minor milestone since, years after passage, most of those 30 million are still going to be uncovered?

This is strange.  Maybe there weren't 30 million in need.  Or maybe people just can't be trusted to get their own coverage...even when spoon fed and forced to at tax penalty point.


So the problem is that is only reducing the uninsured?  Not clear on what your point is.

Keep in mind that this represents millions of people who couldn't get insurance before but wanted to.  Not sure on the precise number but for these people, Obamacare is actually a rainbow shiatting unicorn.

Secondly, this reduces the burden on hundreds of millions of responsible insurance holders because they won't have to cover as much in terms of emergency room visits from the uninsured.

Finally, every single American benefits from the consumer protections in Obamacare, not to mention the fringe economic benefits of having your health care security detached from your employer, not to mention the likely reduction in medical bankruptcies going forward.

To say there are still many uninsured is short sighted.  Also, moving the goal post because the actual GOP guarantee was actually that Obamacare was going to destroy the country and cause 1,000 years of darkness
 
2014-03-31 11:06:38 AM  

James!: Chris Ween: Government option

You know, they tried to include that.  Those folks you vote for decided it was a back door to single payer and blocked it.


Doesn't change that I wanted it, and it was the best option.

I didn't want Kentucky to be allowed to shoot that three yesterday with 2.3 seconds left either.  But I still support Michigan.
 
2014-03-31 11:06:54 AM  

Serious Black: Obama is in charge of the Kaiser Family Foundation now?


Of course. Hitler inherited the remnants of Kaiser Wilhelm's government, and as we all know ChairMAO Balrog Insane B-Rock "The Islamic Shock" Hussein SuperAllah Hussein FartBama Al-Chicago Hussein is History's Greatest MonsterTM so of course he would have already seized the assets of the Third Reich along the way towards establishing the 666 Reich. See, its these things about the Kaiser Family Foundation that no one tells you.
 
2014-03-31 11:07:15 AM  

Somacandra: dittybopper: If you just ignore section of your tax return on the insurance part, or lie and say you have insurance when you don't actually have it, they'll prosecute you for filing a frivolous return.

You mean to tell me that the Federal government might take a dim view of cheating on one's taxes? Fetch me my laudanum! I have with the vapours!


I was pointing out that the whole "We won't prosecute" thing only applies to a small percentage of the possible cases.

So it's not *QUITE* a lie, but it's not wholly truthful either.
 
2014-03-31 11:08:10 AM  

Chris Ween: James!: Chris Ween: Government option

You know, they tried to include that.  Those folks you vote for decided it was a back door to single payer and blocked it.

Doesn't change that I wanted it, and it was the best option.

I didn't want Kentucky to be allowed to shoot that three yesterday with 2.3 seconds left either.  But I still support Michigan.


I don't follow hockey.
 
2014-03-31 11:08:46 AM  

Chris Ween: Most of those enrolled may have selected the marketplace options instead of their employer options.


That would indeed be interesting if it were true. Especially since those with employer-sponsored coverage (like me) are not eligible for any exchange subsidies.
 
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