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(Click On Detroit)   28% of millennials have college degrees. The other 72% say they don't need a degree to realize they're not $50,000 in debt   (clickondetroit.com) divider line 143
    More: Interesting, academic degrees, bachelor's degrees, U.S. Department of Labor  
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1385 clicks; posted to Geek » on 31 Mar 2014 at 10:38 AM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-31 10:42:07 AM
Translation: 72% of millenials to become unemployed, coffee-swilling hipsters, fry-cooks, or Army Grunts, while the rest of the world does something useful with their lives.
 
2014-03-31 10:45:41 AM
So... good, I guess?  That's up from the last generation, it used to be about 1/4.

// 50k?  Really?  Did subby just... not work at all during undergrad?  Not even summers?
 
2014-03-31 10:46:43 AM

vharshyde: Translation: 72% of millenials to become unemployed, coffee-swilling hipsters, fry-cooks, or Army Grunts, while the rest of the world does something useful with their lives.


Good call, I've certainly never heard of an unemployed college grad.
 
2014-03-31 10:49:50 AM
Degrees are so overrated. It is a scam perpetuated by the government and lending companies. The truth is you shouldn't be borrowing money and going to a university just for the sake of a degree. Most aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Hell most Universities don't even require you to pick a major until your junior year. I can't tell you the number of my friends who borrowed $50,000 for a BS in something worthless like psychology, which qualifies you to be a retail store manager. Pushing people into vocational programs would make way more sense in many cases but the banks don't profit nearly enough.
 
2014-03-31 10:50:22 AM

HotWingConspiracy: vharshyde: Translation: 72% of millenials to become unemployed, coffee-swilling hipsters, fry-cooks, or Army Grunts, while the rest of the world does something useful with their lives.

Good call, I've certainly never heard of an unemployed college grad.


Nor has anyone without an expensive piece of paper ever done anything with their lives but menial labor or become a welfare case.
 
2014-03-31 10:51:01 AM
Somewhere I saw a chart about who was richer: a typical doctor (with typical student debt), or a typical plumber, who went through an apprenticeship and earned money (albeit a little) rather than accumulating debt.

In the end, the doctor was indeed richer, but the "break even" point was around age 55.
 
2014-03-31 10:58:06 AM
The purpose of a college education is to become an educated adult.

That is all.
 
2014-03-31 10:58:45 AM

flaminio: Somewhere I saw a chart about who was richer: a typical doctor (with typical student debt), or a typical plumber, who went through an apprenticeship and earned money (albeit a little) rather than accumulating debt.

In the end, the doctor was indeed richer, but the "break even" point was around age 55.


Could you please find that chart? I found an article from the New York Times that came to a similiar conclusion but based it upon living conditions, taxes, etc. Not really fair to say a plumber is better if you count the doctor driving an Audi against him.
 
2014-03-31 10:59:17 AM
You can save lots of money by printing your own diplomas....
 
2014-03-31 10:59:35 AM

EWreckedSean: BS in something worthless like psychology


Funny you say that. Mid-career salary (median, I think) for a psych major is $60,200 - more than Organizational Management ($58,400) Health Care Administrators ($57,800), Criminal Justice, Graphic Design, Animal Science, Paralegal, and many other majors. Looks like the market likes armchair psychologists more than it likes armchair artists, business analysts, health care admins (this one surprised me), cops/lawyers, or vets/vet-techs.

And according to BLS, in most cases, even a "shiatty" degree will earn you more over your lifetime than not getting one, and I imagine with even the barest hint of financial literacy a person can turn a "worthless" degree into better financial security than no degree.
 
2014-03-31 11:00:11 AM

flaminio: Somewhere I saw a chart about who was richer: a typical doctor (with typical student debt), or a typical plumber, who went through an apprenticeship and earned money (albeit a little) rather than accumulating debt.

In the end, the doctor was indeed richer, but the "break even" point was around age 55.


Plumbers are maybe a bad example of a 'typical' blue-collar professional, they're one of the highest-paid non-degree professions where doctors are only in the mid-range for professional degree-holders.  I know lawyers averaged higher last I checked, and I don't know about MBAs but I'd wager they're up there too.

But yeah, nothing wrong with the apprenticeship professions if you can get into them.  The difficulty is that they're almost impossible to get into unless you've known the boss since you were a kid, if you think getting into an Ivy league school is hard just  try getting an electrician's apprenticeship in a full-sized city.
 
2014-03-31 11:00:28 AM

EWreckedSean: Degrees are so overrated. It is a scam perpetuated by the government and lending companies. The truth is you shouldn't be borrowing money and going to a university just for the sake of a degree. Most aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Hell most Universities don't even require you to pick a major until your junior year. I can't tell you the number of my friends who borrowed $50,000 for a BS in something worthless like psychology, which qualifies you to be a retail store manager. Pushing people into vocational programs would make way more sense in many cases but the banks don't profit nearly enough.


Annd we're done here.
 
2014-03-31 11:02:47 AM

Jim_Callahan: So... good, I guess?  That's up from the last generation, it used to be about 1/4.


According to most recent US census data, educational attainment by age cohort:

24-34: 32.2%
35-44: 32.5%
45-64: 28.9%
65+   : 23.2%

I'm also not sure what they're trying to say.
 
2014-03-31 11:04:20 AM
About the only thing I've done right in life so far has been avoiding any sort of student loans and going to a community college.

I didn't graduate, and I'm not doing particularly well, but at least I don't have that hanging over me.
 
2014-03-31 11:06:18 AM
Depends on what kind of life you want to lead, I suppose.
 
2014-03-31 11:07:17 AM

boogerwolf: EWreckedSean: Degrees are so overrated. It is a scam perpetuated by the government and lending companies. The truth is you shouldn't be borrowing money and going to a university just for the sake of a degree. Most aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Hell most Universities don't even require you to pick a major until your junior year. I can't tell you the number of my friends who borrowed $50,000 for a BS in something worthless like psychology, which qualifies you to be a retail store manager. Pushing people into vocational programs would make way more sense in many cases but the banks don't profit nearly enough.

Annd we're done here.


...with hyperbole?
 
2014-03-31 11:08:24 AM

Jim_Callahan: So... good, I guess?  That's up from the last generation, it used to be about 1/4.

// 50k?  Really?  Did subby just... not work at all during undergrad?  Not even summers?


50K is easy, even with summer jobs. I graduated in 2008. Cost of in-state school was ~17K a year, so that's 68K right there with no scholarships. If you make $10 an hour for 3 months over the summer, that gives you around 5-6K per year after taxes. Say you want to keep a couple of grand of that have spending cash during the year (more if you don't work), and suddenly even though you've made over 20 grand during your summers you still graduate with 50K in student loans.

I went for 4.5 years and graduated with just over 30K, but I worked during the summers and during the school year.
 
2014-03-31 11:11:19 AM
Born in 1980-1984? I'm a millennial now?
 
2014-03-31 11:12:01 AM

PanicMan: Born in 1980-1984? I'm a millennial now?


You've always been a millenial or Gen Y.
 
2014-03-31 11:15:14 AM

Dr Dreidel: And according to BLS, in most cases, even a "shiatty" degree will earn you more over your lifetime than not getting one, and I imagine with even the barest hint of financial literacy a person can turn a "worthless" degree into better financial security than no degree.


A higher salary doesn't mean much by itself. Suppose you spend $40,000 on a college degree and earn $2,000 a year extra. The break-even is 20 years. Suppose you spend more, or have to take out a loan for some of that. Suppose you go bananas on saving from 18-22 and manage to bankroll $20,000 in a long-term investment that returns 7% per year. The future value for someone who invests that $20,000 from 22-65 is a full $80,000 more than someone who invested that same $20,000 from 26-65.


flaminio: Somewhere I saw a chart about who was richer: a typical doctor (with typical student debt), or a typical plumber, who went through an apprenticeship and earned money (albeit a little) rather than accumulating debt.

In the end, the doctor was indeed richer, but the "break even" point was around age 55.


I would be suspicious of how they got those numbers. I have a brother-in-law in family medicine, and they just paid off his student loan debt at the ripe old age of 30. That's not a particularly high paying specialty either.
 
2014-03-31 11:15:28 AM

flaminio: Somewhere I saw a chart about who was richer: a typical doctor (with typical student debt), or a typical plumber, who went through an apprenticeship and earned money (albeit a little) rather than accumulating debt.

In the end, the doctor was indeed richer, but the "break even" point was around age 55.


You know what my Business degree allows me to do?

Make enough money from sitting at a desk that I can afford to pay someone to deal with my plumbing. At the end of the day, their bank account may be slightly larger than mine, but there's a quality-of-life issue to consider, as well.

I never have to deal with another human's raw feces. There's value in that.
 
2014-03-31 11:18:01 AM

PanicMan: Born in 1980-1984? I'm a millennial now?


I was born in '79, and my youngest sister in 92 or 93, I forget, and the cultural divide there is enormous. I consider myself Gen Y, while she is absolutely a millennial.

Generations are tricky. 10 years makes all the difference.
 
2014-03-31 11:19:05 AM

robohobo: PanicMan: Born in 1980-1984? I'm a millennial now?

I was born in '79, and my youngest sister in 92 or 93, I forget, and the cultural divide there is enormous. I consider myself Gen Y, while she is absolutely a millennial.

Generations are tricky. 10 years makes all the difference.


Might want to google the definition for those two things real quick.
 
2014-03-31 11:19:53 AM
Is this where today's "STEM majors saying anyone with a non-STEM degree is stoopid" thread is?

/don't forget "basement dwelling coffee pusher" - it's an integral part of the formula
 
2014-03-31 11:21:23 AM

Jim_Callahan: flaminio: Somewhere I saw a chart about who was richer: a typical doctor (with typical student debt), or a typical plumber, who went through an apprenticeship and earned money (albeit a little) rather than accumulating debt.

In the end, the doctor was indeed richer, but the "break even" point was around age 55.

Plumbers are maybe a bad example of a 'typical' blue-collar professional, they're one of the highest-paid non-degree professions where doctors are only in the mid-range for professional degree-holders.  I know lawyers averaged higher last I checked, and I don't know about MBAs but I'd wager they're up there too.

But yeah, nothing wrong with the apprenticeship professions if you can get into them.  The difficulty is that they're almost impossible to get into unless you've known the boss since you were a kid, if you think getting into an Ivy league school is hard just  try getting an electrician's apprenticeship in a full-sized city.


Back in the onion-belt days, you could take vocation education classes in high school that could get you into a local apprenticeships. I knew a bunch of guys that became electricians, plumbers, or welders.

Short CSB: One of those guys that took welding classes combined it with a love of scuba-diving, and wound up as a deep-water welder working on oil platforms. When I saw him last (about 15 years ago), he was working one week out of three, and making well above $100K a year.
He did mention that one drawback of the job was a rather high casualty rate.
 
2014-03-31 11:21:29 AM

redmid17: robohobo: PanicMan: Born in 1980-1984? I'm a millennial now?

I was born in '79, and my youngest sister in 92 or 93, I forget, and the cultural divide there is enormous. I consider myself Gen Y, while she is absolutely a millennial.

Generations are tricky. 10 years makes all the difference.

Might want to google the definition for those two things real quick.


I know they're considered the same thing, but there needs to be a split.
 
2014-03-31 11:22:32 AM

EWreckedSean: Degrees are so overrated. It is a scam perpetuated by the government and lending companies. The truth is you shouldn't be borrowing money and going to a university just for the sake of a degree. Most aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Hell most Universities don't even require you to pick a major until your junior year. I can't tell you the number of my friends who borrowed $50,000 for a BS in something worthless like psychology, which qualifies you to be a retail store manager. Pushing people into vocational programs would make way more sense in many cases but the banks don't profit nearly enough.


Yes, due to the crushing shortage of plumbers and auto mechanics in the US.
 
2014-03-31 11:22:59 AM

redmid17: Jim_Callahan: So... good, I guess?  That's up from the last generation, it used to be about 1/4.

// 50k?  Really?  Did subby just... not work at all during undergrad?  Not even summers?

50K is easy, even with summer jobs. I graduated in 2008. Cost of in-state school was ~17K a year, so that's 68K right there with no scholarships. If you make $10 an hour for 3 months over the summer, that gives you around 5-6K per year after taxes. Say you want to keep a couple of grand of that have spending cash during the year (more if you don't work), and suddenly even though you've made over 20 grand during your summers you still graduate with 50K in student loans.

I went for 4.5 years and graduated with just over 30K, but I worked during the summers and during the school year.


Most people don't seem to understand that college tuition cost have skyrocketed.  In the 80s the average cost for a year of University undergrad was about 2500 and now it is 20,500.  There's been 6% increase on tuition per year (far outstripping inflation rates).

It is still worth it.  If I stay with my current employer after I graduate, I would see about an extra 15,000 per year,  The 40,000 or so in student debt I will have will be worth it even if it takes time.
 
2014-03-31 11:23:45 AM

Fubini: A higher salary doesn't mean much by itself. Suppose you spend $40,000 on a college degree and earn $2,000 a year extra. The break-even is 20 years. Suppose you spend more, or have to take out a loan for some of that. Suppose you go bananas on saving from 18-22 and manage to bankroll $20,000 in a long-term investment that returns 7% per year. The future value for someone who invests that $20,000 from 22-65 is a full $80,000 more than someone who invested that same $20,000 from 26-65.


Yes, but someone without the financial wherewithal to go to college is not likely to have a spare $20k in cash to invest at age 18. Student loans allow you to "invest" that $20k into a profession that will pay out far more than $20k in returns.

I didn't claim college is the Sex Panther of financial security, merely that in the aggregate, getting a "shiatty" degree is better than getting no degree, as measured by mid-career earnings and BLS data comparing highest education level with lifetime earnings.
 
2014-03-31 11:25:19 AM

Dr Dreidel: EWreckedSean: BS in something worthless like psychology

Funny you say that. Mid-career salary (median, I think) for a psych major is $60,200 - more than Organizational Management ($58,400) Health Care Administrators ($57,800), Criminal Justice, Graphic Design, Animal Science, Paralegal, and many other majors. Looks like the market likes armchair psychologists more than it likes armchair artists, business analysts, health care admins (this one surprised me), cops/lawyers, or vets/vet-techs.

And according to BLS, in most cases, even a "shiatty" degree will earn you more over your lifetime than not getting one, and I imagine with even the barest hint of financial literacy a person can turn a "worthless" degree into better financial security than no degree.


The problem with this type of analysis is that the job market is very different for someone mid-career today and someone who is just starting out.  If we really did turn college degrees into a Gresham's Law exercise sometime in the last ten years, then it won't be seen in the mid career numbers until the millennials hit forty.
 
2014-03-31 11:25:48 AM

Dr Dreidel: Funny you say that. Mid-career salary (median, I think) for a psych major is $60,200 - more than Organizational Management ($58,400) Health Care Administrators ($57,800), Criminal Justice, Graphic Design, Animal Science, Paralegal, and many other majors. Looks like the market likes armchair psychologists more than it likes armchair artists, business analysts, health care admins (this one surprised me), cops/lawyers, or vets/vet-techs.


This an interesting way to spin the fact that Psych was tied for 86 on that list. They're actually behind the numbnuts who got to the end of undergrad without declaring anything more specific than "Liberal Arts".
 
2014-03-31 11:26:31 AM

robohobo: redmid17: robohobo: PanicMan: Born in 1980-1984? I'm a millennial now?

I was born in '79, and my youngest sister in 92 or 93, I forget, and the cultural divide there is enormous. I consider myself Gen Y, while she is absolutely a millennial.

Generations are tricky. 10 years makes all the difference.

Might want to google the definition for those two things real quick.

I know they're considered the same thing, but there needs to be a split.


Some people consider those born around 79-84 or so as a subset of Gen Y due the fact that we (I was born in 80) remember the world as it was before computers while those in the same generation but a few years younger do not. That makes a big difference in how we see the world and utilize technology.
 
2014-03-31 11:26:42 AM

robohobo: redmid17: robohobo: PanicMan: Born in 1980-1984? I'm a millennial now?

I was born in '79, and my youngest sister in 92 or 93, I forget, and the cultural divide there is enormous. I consider myself Gen Y, while she is absolutely a millennial.

Generations are tricky. 10 years makes all the difference.

Might want to google the definition for those two things real quick.

I know they're considered the same thing, but there needs to be a split.


You're Gen X by most definitions, so that's probably why.
 
2014-03-31 11:28:13 AM
Fubini: flaminio: Somewhere I saw a chart about who was richer: a typical doctor (with typical student debt), or a typical plumber, who went through an apprenticeship and earned money (albeit a little) rather than accumulating debt.

In the end, the doctor was indeed richer, but the "break even" point was around age 55.

I would be suspicious of how they got those numbers. I have a brother-in-law in family medicine, and they just paid off his student loan debt at the ripe old age of 30. That's not a particularly high paying specialty either.


Indeed, but keep in mind that the plumber has been working for perhaps 12 years. Your BiL is now at -0- and still has to catch up to the plumber.


Gonz: I never have to deal with another human's raw feces. There's value in that.

Pure wisdom.
 
2014-03-31 11:30:25 AM

Mr_Fabulous: The purpose of a college education is to become an educated adult.

That is all.


And why does one need to go 6 figures into debt for this when there is a wealth of knowledge freely available on the internet?
 
2014-03-31 11:30:40 AM
So...  Millennials, born from 1983-2001.  Someone born in 1988 is 23 now, making 11 of those 18 years people too young to have a degree under normal circumstances.  I'd say a 25% graduation rate is pretty damn impressive.

Or  Subby is trying too hard to make limited study have a broader impact.  Welcome to Fark.
 
2014-03-31 11:36:06 AM
Now how many have a degree with no debt?
 
2014-03-31 11:36:21 AM

van1ty: Mr_Fabulous: The purpose of a college education is to become an educated adult.

That is all.

And why does one need to go 6 figures into debt for this when there is a wealth of knowledge freely available on the internet?


Good luck getting a quality scientific education free on the internet. I usually find that it's difficult to download lab space.
 
2014-03-31 11:36:39 AM

Fubini: Dr Dreidel: And according to BLS, in most cases, even a "shiatty" degree will earn you more over your lifetime than not getting one, and I imagine with even the barest hint of financial literacy a person can turn a "worthless" degree into better financial security than no degree.

A higher salary doesn't mean much by itself. Suppose you spend $40,000 on a college degree and earn $2,000 a year extra. The break-even is 20 years. Suppose you spend more, or have to take out a loan for some of that. Suppose you go bananas on saving from 18-22 and manage to bankroll $20,000 in a long-term investment that returns 7% per year. The future value for someone who invests that $20,000 from 22-65 is a full $80,000 more than someone who invested that same $20,000 from 26-65.


flaminio: Somewhere I saw a chart about who was richer: a typical doctor (with typical student debt), or a typical plumber, who went through an apprenticeship and earned money (albeit a little) rather than accumulating debt.

In the end, the doctor was indeed richer, but the "break even" point was around age 55.

I would be suspicious of how they got those numbers. I have a brother-in-law in family medicine, and they just paid off his student loan debt at the ripe old age of 30. That's not a particularly high paying specialty either.


Raises are usually done on a percent basis. Higher initial salary is a lot higher final salary.
 
2014-03-31 11:37:10 AM

van1ty: Mr_Fabulous: The purpose of a college education is to become an educated adult.

That is all.

And why does one need to go 6 figures into debt for this when there is a wealth of knowledge freely available on the internet?


Books have been available for thousands of years. So how on earth is "Teacher" a job then?

Obviously there is more to education than "access to information".
 
2014-03-31 11:38:01 AM

Name_Omitted: So...  Millennials, born from 1983-2001.  Someone born in 1988 is 23 now, making 11 of those 18 years people too young to have a degree under normal circumstances.  I'd say a 25% graduation rate is pretty damn impressive.

Or  Subby is trying too hard to make limited study have a broader impact.  Welcome to Fark.


Did you right this post in 2011?
 
2014-03-31 11:38:37 AM

redmid17: Name_Omitted: So...  Millennials, born from 1983-2001.  Someone born in 1988 is 23 now, making 11 of those 18 years people too young to have a degree under normal circumstances.  I'd say a 25% graduation rate is pretty damn impressive.

Or  Subby is trying too hard to make limited study have a broader impact.  Welcome to Fark.

Did you right write this post in 2011?


FTFM
 
2014-03-31 11:39:25 AM
CSB: Apparently, I'm considered bootstrappy. I grew up in a large, lower-middle class family and was the first generation in the family to go to college. I had jobs all through high school and college, on top of earning scholarships, to pay for my education. Took on a large debt burden for college that I paid off in under three years after college. I've had fantastic jobs outside of my studied fields, jobs which I got into because they just required a college degree and the work experience that I built up with those jobs I had in high school and college to pay for my education. There really is nothing like graduating from a university with a degree and having nearly a decade in work experience already to make you a top candidate for your age. I am now teaching my younger relatives the same tricks and all of them seem to be successful so far. It has as much to do with determination and effort as the economy, but making your own luck by investing in your education doesn't hurt either. /CSB
 
2014-03-31 11:41:14 AM

Name_Omitted: So...  Millennials, born from 1983-2001.  Someone born in 1988 is 23 now, making 11 of those 18 years people too young to have a degree under normal circumstances.  I'd say a 25% graduation rate is pretty damn impressive.

Or  Subby is trying too hard to make limited study have a broader impact.  Welcome to Fark.


Try RTFA, especially the part where it says

Since 1997, researchers have followed the same group of 9,000 people, all born between 1980 and 1984.
 
2014-03-31 11:41:35 AM

thurstonxhowell: This an interesting way to spin the fact that Psych was tied for 86 on that list. They're actually behind the numbnuts who got to the end of undergrad without declaring anything more specific than "Liberal Arts".


Then why not pick dead last on that list - Social Work and Child/Family Studies - as the example of "shiatty" major, rather than from the middle? Or maybe just any example of a major that offers no value in addition to offering no money, like Phys Ed?

That was also to point out that what we think of as "good" or "noble" work can be paid like shiat in comparison - tops on that list are "hard" sciences, but #30 is "Finance", far above Social Work at #129.

llortcM_yllort: The problem with this type of analysis is that the job market is very different for someone mid-career today and someone who is just starting out. If we really did turn college degrees into a Gresham's Law exercise sometime in the last ten years, then it won't be seen in the mid career numbers until the millennials hit forty.


There's also "starting salary" on that list, I just didn't feel like doing another analysis. You're probably right, though, and I didn't take that into account.

Hell, I'm 32, and not yet "mid-career" even though I finished college 8 years ago.
 
2014-03-31 11:42:07 AM
Well rounded education is bullshiat that keeps college unaffordable for people who want to learn more about a specific field and enhance their job opportunities. For instance, my degree is in Econ, with a specialty in stat analysis... the graduate part was all Econ... but for the undergrad, nearly half my college tuition was spent on things not related to economics... learning foreign languages, african studies, hispanic studies, women's studies, 2 lab courses in physics (I like physics, but that really isn't the point), and a litany of writing courses that re-capped what I learned before 10th grade. We've put a degree in STEM areas out of reach of kids who want to learn about engineering because we're going to charge them twice as much so they can also learn about the plight of some random farking people who have enough political sway to get their agenda included in the education process.

With regard to the money aspect... DO WHAT YOU LOVE. Seriously, don't do it for the money... don't get an MBA if you don't like big business, don't get a psych degree if you don't like psych. If you don't know what you want to do, go to community college while you're working and knock out some of those Gen-Ed things until you do.

Not-so-CSB bro... I have an MA in Econ... I didn't really want it though... I wanted to be a firefighting airplane pilot. That's pretty much all I ever wanted... I went to college to that end (to be a pilot), but got dx'd with medical problems that made it impossible to have a career flying. I am (exceptionally) weird with data analytics and math, so it took me about 3 years to get an Econ degree and my MA (overload on courses, full time job for three years straight). I worked in-field doing weather modeling at NYCT/MABSTOA, then on water development mapping for a bit with UN (LDC). It was absolutely farking awful. I hated being at a desk all day, I never had any tangible sense of having accomplished anything, the jobs weren't remotely challenging (the actual work part), and the hardest part of the job was dealing with office politics or trying to explain basics of statistics and probabilistic behaviors to people who operate from an understanding of statistics they got from Fox News or CNN. I was working hard (and often), but my personal life was suffering, work was unfulfilling, I wasn't happy in the least.

I moved out here to Colorado, and am a store manager at ski/mountain bike resort. I get to see the sun every day it is out. I can take breaks to ski, ride bikes, or go down into the creek in front of the store and fly fish (the other employees do to, it's not just a boss thing). Customers frequently tip for good service with a six pack of beer here. Every day, I can look at my store and know what I've done, what needs to be done, how the numbers are going, what our margins are, what our demographics are, what stock needs to get ordered, and a bunch of other good stuff. I am happy on a near daily basis, I'm not stressed out at all, my MS hasn't bothered me as much in the last 5 years as it did in any given 2 years in NYC. I make about 1/5 of what I could if I was working as an economist, but there isn't a single day where I seriously consider moving to a major city and doing that kind of work again. I still occasionally do quantitative proofreading and matching (checking to see if the math matches with the narratives)... but I'm also far more free to just turn down projects that seem like they'd be overly-stressful.

What I'm saying is... don't focus on the money for how to manage your life. Life is what you do, not what you collect.
 
2014-03-31 11:43:49 AM
robohobo:

I know they're considered the same thing, but there needs to be a split.

The date's come from the book  Generations: The History of America's Future,by  Strauss and Howe.  The book came out in 1991.  While it was an interestingpredicative model, it could not have predicted the developmental effects of the Internet on kids, and what that might have done to speed up or slow down the cycle they wereidentifying.
 
2014-03-31 11:43:53 AM
i457.photobucket.com

Get yourself a damn degree, just don't go $250,000 into debt for it.

I think more than a few would be happy to have only $50,000 in student loans

//30K left
 
2014-03-31 11:45:20 AM

wxboy: Name_Omitted: So...  Millennials, born from 1983-2001.  Someone born in 1988 is 23 now, making 11 of those 18 years people too young to have a degree under normal circumstances.  I'd say a 25% graduation rate is pretty damn impressive.

Or  Subby is trying too hard to make limited study have a broader impact.  Welcome to Fark.

Try RTFA, especially the part where it says

Since 1997, researchers have followed the same group of 9,000 people, all born between 1980 and 1984.


Kind of my point, actually.  The article was much more specific than the Fark headline.
 
2014-03-31 11:46:32 AM
It might be relevant to some of you with Student Loan Debt to know that Student Loan defaulting and other problems from Student Loan Debt can now be overlooked when obtaining your credit rating in regard home buying.

I have a relative who does so all the time.  it's not only legal, it's becoming the common practice.  I don't give Sallie Mae anything anymore (I'll pay it if they actually help me find a job where my degree is relevant), and I have a number of friends who also don't.  I think there's a reasonable chance that student loan debt is going to be forgiven by the government in the next few years.
 
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