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(Telegraph)   UK government to criminalise classic British parenting   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 92
    More: Obvious, Conservative MPs, UK government, Brothers Grimm, Liberal Democrat MP  
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6034 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Mar 2014 at 9:20 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



92 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-31 04:03:07 AM  
pudding for all! hurrah!
 
2014-03-31 04:19:58 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-31 07:08:44 AM  
If I don't get cake for dinner, I'm turning you farkers in!
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-31 07:55:39 AM  
"Pick up your toys."

"You can't tell me what to do. I know my rights."
 
2014-03-31 09:21:07 AM  
Is there a new push to reinstate the orphanage industry?
 
2014-03-31 09:22:23 AM  
Yes. 10 years in prison. Then they will get all the love the children require.
 
2014-03-31 09:23:33 AM  
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
 
2014-03-31 09:25:22 AM  
This is silly.

What is going on in the UK?

Cameras everywhere and now you have to hug your kids?
 
2014-03-31 09:27:07 AM  

ZAZ: "Pick up your toys."

"You can't tell me what to do. I know my rights."



The fact they have toys at all refutes the claim.

Fark is going to get on its high horse, but emotional neglect can stunt growth or even kill children, and we've known this for quite some time.
 
2014-03-31 09:28:42 AM  
Look mommy, there's an airplane up in the sky.
 
2014-03-31 09:33:34 AM  
And here in 'Merkia, it's child abuse to force a kid to eat British food.
 
2014-03-31 09:34:19 AM  
I know their hearts are in the right place, but man this sounds like it would be a nightmare to actually police and enforce.
 
2014-03-31 09:34:23 AM  
Is it really abuse to withhold British food from a child?
 
2014-03-31 09:34:34 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: Is there a new push to reinstate the orphanage industry?


This is what I was thinking.

It's easy to lazily point out flaws with this law.  But as someone who is familiar with the foster care system, this is a disaster in the making.

Abusive parents are going to find ways to be abusive.  It's hard wired somewhere in their brain.  And that sucks and should be addressed.  But forcing kids into foster care is WAY worse than a parent ignoring you.

My thought is that they will, except for the most extreme cases, use this to tack on to sentencing as an adder when another more serious crime was inflicted.  i.e. when the kid is physically abused, now they can add jail time by charging under this law as well.
 
2014-03-31 09:35:07 AM  
Pretty much, this is just an expansion of child abuse laws to cover emotional abuse, as well as phyiscal abuse.

Call it the "Anti-Dursleys" Law, as ZZ9 said upthread. You can't treat a kid in your care like shiat and make him sleep in a tiny broomcloset.
 
2014-03-31 09:36:07 AM  
This law will be abused so hard it'll itself qualify under the law for protection.Every parent will be at risk from wild prosecution.
 
2014-03-31 09:38:29 AM  
I thought it would be rum, sodomy or the lash.
 
2014-03-31 09:38:35 AM  
Irish parents not gonna be happy about this. Emotional deprivation is a national standard.
 
2014-03-31 09:38:51 AM  

plcow: My thought is that they will, except for the most extreme cases, use this to tack on to sentencing as an adder when another more serious crime was inflicted. i.e. when the kid is physically abused, now they can add jail time by charging under this law as well.


Yeah, i'm figuring its one of those catch-as-catch-can laws that ends up just being used as a sentencing modification, or a fall back, lesser included charge.  Which makes some sense in the US, but from what i heard in the UK they dont really do plea bargaining, so it will have less practical effect.
 
2014-03-31 09:39:58 AM  

Teiritzamna: I know their hearts are in the right place, but man this sounds like it would be a nightmare to actually police and enforce.


Oh, it will be easy to police and enforce.  It's just that it will be done selectively, against poor people.
 
2014-03-31 09:40:18 AM  
So, does sending your spawn off to some boarding school in the wilds of Cumbria the day they turn 4 count?  Because, if so, an entire swath of the upper class are going to be queuing up to spend a decade in Newgate...
 
2014-03-31 09:42:02 AM  

Public Savant: This is silly.

What is going on in the UK?

Cameras everywhere and now you have to hug your kids?


Once Great Britain, the land where they had to make an exception for their laws so that banned Olympic sports could be held in London, where anti-stab knives are all the rage, and where now you can't give your kid the silent treatment for being naughty.
 
2014-03-31 09:42:32 AM  
Boarding schools are illegal in the UK now?
 
2014-03-31 09:43:26 AM  

dittybopper: Oh, it will be easy to police and enforce. It's just that it will be done selectively, against poor people.


Touche
 
2014-03-31 09:48:22 AM  

Teiritzamna: plcow: My thought is that they will, except for the most extreme cases, use this to tack on to sentencing as an adder when another more serious crime was inflicted. i.e. when the kid is physically abused, now they can add jail time by charging under this law as well.

Yeah, i'm figuring its one of those catch-as-catch-can laws that ends up just being used as a sentencing modification, or a fall back, lesser included charge.  Which makes some sense in the US, but from what i heard in the UK they dont really do plea bargaining, so it will have less practical effect.


I think it's so they have something to charge shiatty parents with when they don't have physical things like beatings or sexual assault.  Abuse doesn't have to be physical for it to have a real and very negative effect.

/csb
My father is a very emotionally abusive person, but I never really felt like I could seek outside help about it.  What was I supposed to say, "My dad is mean to me"?  I just thought that's how parents were--they shouted at you over nothing and denigrated you all the time.  Took me a long time to get over it, and in some ways, I'm still working through all the little traps left in my brain.

I don't really know what the laws in the US look like for this kind of thing.  I grew up in GA, so suffice it to say there wasn't much in the way of good social services.  One of his angry ex-girlfriends called CPS as a form of revenge once, and they came out to the house, and since he's also a crazy hoarder I thought that he was going to get in trouble for sure, but nothing ever happened.
/csb
 
2014-03-31 09:48:59 AM  

dittybopper: Teiritzamna: I know their hearts are in the right place, but man this sounds like it would be a nightmare to actually police and enforce.

Oh, it will be easy to police and enforce.  It's just that it will be done selectively, against poor people.


It'll be used like this:

"Well, we can't prove you beat your kid but we have your statement that you did x, y, and z as punishment for alleged bad conduct but that sounds emotionally negligent so good luck proving that you do care."
 
2014-03-31 09:52:52 AM  
When I would do well on the monthly performance tests, I would have a blue ribbon placed on the lid of my Skinner box.
 
2014-03-31 09:54:08 AM  
Starvation
or British "food"
Rough call.
 
2014-03-31 09:54:38 AM  
Is there any level on which this isn't depressing?
 
2014-03-31 09:54:55 AM  
Came here to make the "send them off to boarding school so they will be somebody elses problem" joke, glad to see its been done.
 
2014-03-31 09:58:25 AM  
Can I see a show of hands of those who NEVER had their parents "emotionally abuse" them?

Uh-huh. Just what I thought. . . .
 
2014-03-31 09:59:30 AM  

Mrbogey: This law will be abused so hard it'll itself qualify under the law for protection.Every parent will be at risk from wild prosecution.


Not to defend the law necessarily, but these kinds of apocalyptic predictions almost never come to fruition.
 
2014-03-31 10:04:10 AM  
Other new offences could include forcing a child to witness domestic violence, making a child a scape goat or forcing degrading punishments upon them.

That is one if my favorite parts of being a parent though! I told my 12 year old daughter that the next time she fails to turn in an assignment I would email her teacher asking that she be excused because she just started getting her period.

She hasn't missed one since.
 
2014-03-31 10:08:01 AM  

ckccfa: My father is a very emotionally abusive person, but I never really felt like I could seek outside help about it. What was I supposed to say, "My dad is mean to me"? I just thought that's how parents were--they shouted at you over nothing and denigrated you all the time. Took me a long time to get over it, and in some ways, I'm still working through all the little traps left in my brain.


Similar story here.  I'm almost certain I had juvenile depression around age 7.  You know how my mother dealt with it?  Guilt-tripping me about being depressed while living a comfortable, middle-class lifestyle, screaming at me when that inevitably didn't work, and locking me in my room.

And to give you some idea of how farked up my mother is, the reason I know all of this is because I heard it from her own mouth not more than 4 months ago.  And she said it like it was the most natural thing in the world.  In all these years it has never once occurred to her that that was kind of farked up.  Still creeps me the hell out just thinking about it.
 
2014-03-31 10:08:43 AM  

jst3p: That is one if my favorite parts of being a parent though! I told my 12 year old daughter that the next time she fails to turn in an assignment I would email her teacher asking that she be excused because she just started getting her period.

She hasn't missed one since.


This is sick and hilarious and I'm filing that away in case I ever need it (daughter's 7 now.) Thanks for the tip!
 
2014-03-31 10:08:56 AM  

jst3p: Other new offences could include forcing a child to witness domestic violence, making a child a scape goat or forcing degrading punishments upon them.

That is one if my favorite parts of being a parent though! I told my 12 year old daughter that the next time she fails to turn in an assignment I would email her teacher asking that she be excused because she just started getting her period.

She hasn't missed one since.


Missed one what?
 
2014-03-31 10:12:33 AM  

The Name: Still creeps me the hell out just thinking about it.


"This Be The Verse" by Philip Larkin

They f*ck you up, your mum and dad.
    They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

But they were f*cked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
    And don't have any kids yourself.
 
2014-03-31 10:13:00 AM  
In before the "if it doesn't leave visible scarring it's not really abuse" crowd shows up.
 
2014-03-31 10:13:32 AM  
Changes to the child neglect laws will make "emotional cruelty" a crime for the first time, alongside physical or sexual abuse

Can we just make all children, everywhere, wards of the state and be done with it already?  I'm tired of waiting for this slippery slope to reach it's inevitable conclusion.
 
2014-03-31 10:14:18 AM  

Wooly Bully: The Name: Still creeps me the hell out just thinking about it.

"This Be The Verse" by Philip Larkin

They f*ck you up, your mum and dad.
    They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

But they were f*cked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
    And don't have any kids yourself.



Heh.  My mom is the daughter of a paranoid-schizophrenic mother, so you hit the nail on the head.
 
2014-03-31 10:16:04 AM  

macadamnut: jst3p: Other new offences could include forcing a child to witness domestic violence, making a child a scape goat or forcing degrading punishments upon them.

That is one if my favorite parts of being a parent though! I told my 12 year old daughter that the next time she fails to turn in an assignment I would email her teacher asking that she be excused because she just started getting her period.

She hasn't missed one since.

Missed one what?


Yes.
 
2014-03-31 10:16:34 AM  

sendtodave: Changes to the child neglect laws will make "emotional cruelty" a crime for the first time, alongside physical or sexual abuse

Can we just make all children, everywhere, wards of the state and be done with it already?  I'm tired of waiting for this slippery slope to reach it's inevitable conclusion.


Aren't they already?  At least, the children of the poors are.  The wealthy can partially protect themselves through lawyers, so generally the state doesn't bother.
 
2014-03-31 10:16:46 AM  
I certainly agree that neglecting a child emotionally can be just as damaging as physically harming the child, but it definitely could lead to abuse.  Divorced parents using the child to accuse the other one of emotional neglect is the first thing that popped into my mind, but I'm sure there are other cases out there.
 
2014-03-31 10:17:00 AM  

Summercat: Pretty much, this is just an expansion of child abuse laws to cover emotional abuse, as well as phyiscal abuse.

Call it the "Anti-Dursleys" Law, as ZZ9 said upthread. You can't treat a kid in your care like shiat and make him sleep in a tiny broomcloset.


So it's the Harry Potter Act of 2014?
 
2014-03-31 10:18:50 AM  
My question is, who gets to define what's "emotional neglect"?
 
2014-03-31 10:20:03 AM  
I know that in the US emotional abuse actually is fairly well-defined, it's not just "anything that makes the little snowflake sad".  Neglect, long-running degradation, etc.  People can cherry-pick it and dramatically misinterpret it to sound like social workers just randomly take children, but in reality there are some pretty strict rules about establishing patterns and how much of what it takes to cross the line.

I assume it's similar in the UK.
 
2014-03-31 10:20:32 AM  

Miss Alexandra: My question is, who gets to define what's "emotional neglect"?


 Legislators and judges, I'd assume?
 
2014-03-31 10:21:21 AM  

Jim_Callahan: but in reality there are some pretty strict rules about establishing patterns and how much of what it takes to cross the line.


You've never dealt with the family court system, have you?
 
2014-03-31 10:24:55 AM  

Teufelaffe: In before the "if it doesn't leave visible scarring it's not really abuse" crowd shows up.


Island Pond approves.
They never let their kids out.
 
2014-03-31 10:28:30 AM  

The Name: Mrbogey: This law will be abused so hard it'll itself qualify under the law for protection.Every parent will be at risk from wild prosecution.

Not to defend the law necessarily, but these kinds of apocalyptic predictions almost never come to fruition.


It n3ver happens until it does. Then we have people defending it. We then have Fark headlines mocking it and the world keeps on churning with the aggressive abusive laws still on the books.
 
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